Five CRPGs I Struggled With

[@N0strapapas]

"Kingmaker feels like you really want to enjoy it, but it's fighting you every step of the way." No truer words have been spoken on this channel.

[@soulsbornepgamingchannel3755]

💯 %

[@shepherdlavellen3301]

Same goes for Wotr, which is my first CRPG, and I’ve never played DND before

[@Iridium-77-g]

This is why I couldn't enjoy it and not sure why people love it so much. It may be also that I don't really like the D&D 3e system that Pathfinder uses.

[@pyrflie]

The struggle is part of the appeal.

[@treybreaux9531]

I swear

[@shawngillogly6873]

Kingmaker is 80% of the perfect CRPG. And 20% *that* DM who really, really, wants to TPK your party.

[@adeternitamn2859]

Ah yeah the rat cave comes to mind. has to be said as a seasoned RPG player it was clear to me I was walking into a death trap ..but still....that was some intense fight.

[@theycallmecranberrysauce3382]

*Summons Tarrasque }🧙‍♂️

[@havokmusicinc]

rat cave, the OG spider cave (prior to swarm nerfs), will o wisp spam, the linnorm... kingmaker was more than a bit sadistic

[@patinho5589]

What does TPK mean?

[@TimeToBeatFeet]

@@patinho5589 Total Party Kill - the whole party dies

[@markadkins1842]

I saw the title & I knew Kingmaker would be here! LOL! Perfect description: "You feel like you're enjoying the game, but its fighting you every step of the way." *slow clap*

[@lordsathariel4384]

pathfinder kingmaker drove me insane even tho i had a basic understanding of the systems cus some things that should and shouldn't work were backwards i ended up with a necromancer throwing lightning bolts that did 80 to 150 sneak attack cus of arcane trickster while being ok in melee vs most humans and fey but i really lucked out cus without knowing i had put stuff into will so i could semi survive the late game enchantment abuse the fey have but the whole time i wanted to shoot someone in this exact way i was loving it while suffering gaming's equivalent of gut punches

[@VapourforBlood]

@@lordsathariel4384 I tried it on PS4 and while I started off enjoying it it was clearly badly optimised for console. Super bad frame rates at times and all the bugs. In fact CRPGs don’t get a fair shot on consoles. Thy just don’t seem to be ported well at all

[@lordsathariel4384]

@@VapourforBlood game ran like trash on pc too it was their first game of that scope and behind the scenes the game is bloody complex the bugs mostly got ironed out a year after but issue is they changed certain parts of the ruleset to fit a digital game meaning the game is inherently off abit like in my run i was on core but the enemies made no sense i ran into a enemy with higher ac then the last boss and im pretty sure their ac was bugged if i hadn't gone into necromancy and illusion i wouldn't have killed them game is abit all over the place

[@arnabmitra08]

I played wotr on launch and it was my first pathfinder game. Had played DND 3.5 before like nwn2. I really couldn't play beyond act 3 because of so much bugs and issues. Started playing kingmaker later (currently) and it seems to be so much smoother in terms of bugs. Charge actually works for example. I found kingmaker pretty good compared to the hot mess wotr was at launch. Maybe it's because kingmaker had time to resolve it's bugs. The no camera rotate and wonky way z levels work is still wierd

[@wormerine8029]

I played cRPGs since BG2, and Kingmaker was still an exercise in tedium and misery.

[@coot33]

I got softlock twice in the first chapter. Still on the todo list to finish it.

[@Thalaranthey]

@@coot33 how'd you manage it? it was my first time with crpg since fallout2, havent played tt pathfinder ever and not even once was i softlocked in pathfinder O_o

[@coot33]

​@@Thalaranthey Not finding the cleric Jhod before finishing like every quest in chapter 1. You realize a bit too late and softsock yourself. Game keeps telling you to wait for the ritual to finish forever. And yes i did it twice 1 year apart each but yea. I think i had more bugs the first time around it was before EE.

[@TheBoxingCannabyte]

Bg2 and ice wind dale 2 are perfect gangs for me. Guess I'm weird

[@MrRenen89]

Man I would love some more Tyranny, I love the bronze age setting, the way you level up, I also remember that last fight during act I.

[@theycallmecranberrysauce3382]

Of all the modern CRPGs it seems to have held up the best, at least storywise.

[@joel5956]

I ended up using a build guide for Pathfinder: Kingmaker. There are so many opportunities to waste the buffs you get when levelling up that you can get a ways into the game and realize you haven't really gotten your characters much stronger while the enemies have.

[@osareafallire]

4:37 100% agree! After over 1500 hours invested, I finally uninstalled it and decided it was just too damn annoying trying to like what could have been an exceptionally likeable game.

[@MinecraftMartin]

Pathfinder being based on DnD 3.5 has got me excited. Your channel finally tipped me over the edge and got me playing cRPGs again for the first time in 20 years. On PoE1 right now still, but gonna give Pathfinder Kingmaker a go after PoE2. I can't get a DnD group going IRL, but these games make a perfect alternative. Thanks for this massive amount of content. You're probably the most professional / high quality game reviewer on the internet. I've no doubt you'll be in the 7-digit eventually.

[@OverlordNader]

I'd like to watch a video where you talk about your dream/ideal CRPG. What features do you want...etc

[@xuzadem]

Dos2 was my introduction to crpgs after putting 100hrs into it when I heard larian was doing bg3 now I'm going down the rabbit hole of all bg and any other crpg I can get my hands on

[@decadesofdenial4486]

I'm in the same boat haha. Unfortunately only own a switch so I'm limited. I really hope Larian would port DOS1 to switch. Played and beat it at a friend's but..I want it 😅

[@TheXIVPlayer]

4:43 You took the words out of my mouth I played kingmaker when it was released and finished it. I really wanted to try to play it again but something about replaying the game just felt like I need to make an effort to push through and so I was not enjoying the game.

[@davidshaon]

I struggled with Pathfinder Kingmaker, I loved the game, but was really frustrated with the kingdom building, and the last part where, there were a lot of portals.

[@corradoalamanni179]

I loved the kingdom building! Vut I got bored by the combat at 3/4 of the game

[@dukemcgregor]

This vid made me get kingmaker and I am LOVING it coming fresh out of baldurs gate 3 with some experience in dnd 5e. Exactly what I was looking for

[@frankanon4450]

I've played a decent amount of crpg's in my life and the only 2 I stopped only a few hours in are both on your list. You're opinions on Pathfinder were spot on. That game was so complicated to me. The other is D:OS2 and that is because I hated the mechanic with the combat with the magic / melee resistance. It wiped out crowd control until you cleared their magic bar which by then might be too late.

[@jmcc2k10]

Like you I have always loved CRPGs, but divinity was what really made me adore them and realise just how amazing they could be, I love divinity and I really hope we get a third.

[@howdareyouyoucantsaythat5340]

The Owlcat Pathfinder games are a real challenge. Since before Baldur's Gate, I always wanted a real D&D experience like my old DM used to do. We started some campaigns as children with nothing and knew we were struggling to survive every encounter. But our DM was happy to let us play slow, cautiously and encouraged us to avoid certain encounters by dropping subtle hints that we were not immortal by any means. He was a harsh but super-entertaining DM. Miss the real deal of table-top play.

[@kooljoshboy8210]

For me a really easy game to get into was Wasteland 2/3. (I did watch an hour long video on how the stats work). Wasteland 3 has a very fun intro, whereas 2 just drops you in the world. While having proper companions is fun. I think creating your own squad and creating their back story is always fun! Not that anyone asked but... My Wasteland 2 squad was; a shotgun wielding nun called Mother Russia, a woman who is out for revenge sniping from afar, Phoenix. A new ranger recruit called Freshman and finally an old toaster salesman named Rooster. I mention it because it helped me keep invested in what happened to the characters. Play Wasteland 2!

[@adeternitamn2859]

WL3 has the better soundtrack and superior graphics. WL2 is *by far* , the better game with the better story.

[@VladI998]

@@adeternitamn2859 Meh, I think W3 had better gameplay and a more enjoyable story. W2 was a slog to get through and the story felt like a retread of the first game.

[@adeternitamn2859]

@@VladI998 We'll agree to disagree. WL3 story seemed rushed and poorly written to me.

[@LeChevalierduLys]

Those Damn, Dragon level, Owlbears !!!

[@O-D-X]

I feel you on Tyranny. I played the game when it first released and the fight at the end of act 1 was so tough, I restarted the game on an easier level to learn how to approach that fight in particular.

[@marcellommunoz]

PF:K unfair difficulty is really what the name says, when you go lvl 2 into a obligatory encounter against multiple lvl 4 enemies that you need to crit otherwise you will never hit because their AC is buffed to something like 30+ that is extremelly irritating. That game is one of the most frustating games I have ever played on the highest difficulty because you are obliged to save scum or just replay a lot of the game trying to get lucky, doesn't matter how good you are and how much knowledge you have of the game, of course, when you start getting stronger things change and the game becomes playable but at the low lvls that game is hell on earth relying 100% on the RNG.

[@TomGeorgin]

"Kingmaker makes you feel like you want to enjoy it but it's making fight every step along the way." That is so accurately what I've felt trying to play it, I was very disappointed because of that. Wanted to love it, but man, it was not lovable.

[@zahreel3103]

Yup, I struggled with Pillars of Eternity as well. Playing it the first time, I couldn't even figure out how HPs, damage and healing worked, exactly, lol. Took some effort to grasp the system. Same for Tyranny. It gave me fits in the beginning because it was decently smart. The AI kept attacking my damage dealers, who were also glass cannons.

[@ralph1125]

I loved and hated Pillars of eternity. Though i'll admit i mostly only disliked Pillars of Eternity 2. Its Story just did not draw me in, like at all. I actually kind of hated the beginning, so I sadly never got into it :C

[@zahreel3103]

@@ralph1125 I understand. It's a good game, but sometimes original IPs are not very appealing despite the positives. I find myself enjoying more CRPGs that use established settings (Forgotten Realms, Pathfinder, etc.)

[@theycallmecranberrysauce3382]

I appreciate a complex system and the combat is nice, but those text walls.... 😶

[@VladI998]

@@zahreel3103 I'm the opposite. I prefer original settings because they feel a lot easier to get into, as oppose to established ones, which feel like you need to know the lore of the tabletop game in order to enjoy them fully.

[@zahreel3103]

@@VladI998 That's fair and I can see the merits of a brand new setting. It all comes down to preferences, and familiarity with the setting. Learning an established one, especially one with many years of lore scattered throughout many works, can be daunting, I realize that, but it can also be rewarding if you're into it.

[@Hrafnskald]

Great breakdown. While I love the Pillars series, it definitely has a learning curve. I was lucky in that I started playing maybe a year after it came out, and started hanging out on the Obsidian forums doing deep dives into theorycrafting, which helped me learn some of the gameplay dynamics. For me the hardest was Icewind Dale 1 under Heart of Fury from the start mode. So many fun times, trying to win the early battles, sneak past Goblins, only to finally make it into the relative safety of Kuldahar :)

[@itsallenwow]

It's funny you post this today. I'm currently really frustrated with the Possesed Dwarf in Divinity 2 on Bloodmoon Isle who posses your party members

[@crismalak]

Pathfinder and PoE are the one's I struggled with the most because I'm not good at creating builds so I usually wait for people to post guides out there. It'd take me a bit of courage to actually read stuff and see if they come along together well, but I'm too lazy for that.

[@xtoadsannom6704]

I got very lucky on Tyranny's Act I boss fight when I beat it the first time : I was down to Barik and Lantry vs their leader, Ebb and a Sage. And that's when I had a massive stroke of luck and the IA glitched out, which made it ignore Lantry as long as he wasn't attacking or doing any sort of damage, meaning that I used his healing spells and potions to keep Barik alive while he slowly, SLOWLY whittled at the enemies' health.

[@PhatBeetzGaming]

With PoE, I muddled through it as well. Beautiful game with huge depth in lore and music, but I struggled towards the end of the game since I couldn't plan characters!

[@Nergalsama01]

As I said on another video, I started out with Kotor 1+2. Both of which are not difficult by the standards of many other CRPGs, and they are quite forgiving even if your build is less than optimal. But then I tackled the Infinity Engine games back in 2005 and 2006. Baldur's Gate 1+2 already gave me quite some trouble when I first played them. But then I suffered through Icewind Dale 1+2, which demand that you create a decent party and know what you're doing in general. That was rough, but I learned a lot. My second run through IWD was a LOT less frustrating. Which also helped me with more recent CRPGs. Pathfinder in particular was like "coming home" in a sense, because so many things felt familiar from the D&D CRPGs I had played. That's why I didn't Kingmaker too frustrating...until the final dungeon that is.

[@ronniewhitedx]

My overall enjoyment and likelyhood to complete a CRPG is completely based on whether I have to go online and look at a guide or not. The best ones are the ones where I can min/max with the knowledge that The game provides on its own

[@maxfriis]

Cheese tip on the Tyrany fight: Activate pause on enemy sight and use stealth. Move back and pull part of the group.

[@seoulpower8043]

Currently playing through Tyranny now. It's so fucking good!

[@alexoelkers2292]

Have you done a video on Planescape Torment?

[@daniel.holbrook]

I don't know which Pathfinder game I'd consider more of a struggle for me. The kingdom management stuff of Kingmaker is a pain in the ass but I don't find it as _hard_ as I do just... painful and monotonous, whereas WoTR has some of the most batshit encounter design and skewed balance (enemies come pre-buffed, everything's a demon so poison and electricity are pointless, spell resistance and saves become absolutely ridiculous by the time of the Drezen siege, etc) I've ever seen

[@treyhawthorne9927]

What is the game at the start called? The one with the Tank you're controlling?

[@KatalistProductionsKozzySasha]

Thanks for the video, was interesting to see how it different from my experience. I wouldn't have D:os2 and Pillars up there, beat those no problem and had a blast. Kingmaker, now there is one I respected but couldn't get into and didn't beat. Divinity OS 2, Wasteland 3 and Pillars 2 are my personal favorite of the modern crpgs. D:OS1 was probably the most challenging of the modern crpgs I beat.

[@kdawg2468]

I'm playing through underrail now and I knew it would be in this video from the title lol Amazing game, and I would recommend it to everyone.

[@blanchiplanchi]

Kingmaker is my thorn! Played 196 hours almost finished with my slayer, but because I am stupid could not stand the book art where they were showing Hedwirg, so I restarted as him (fighter premade chatacter), and have not continued since them, I need a break to gather forces to take through a 150 hours playtthroug again!!!

[@Jeff-hn8iy]

Totally agree on Pillars of Eternity. The game system was extremely confusing, and trying to manage everything during the fast RTwP battles overwhelmed me.

[@mikfhan]

Yeah I've set it to auto-slow and pause every time an enemy is seen, party member takes damage or spell is cast, with AI set to Defensive but never using per-rest abilities. Trying a Cipher controller with Edèr shield tank and Aloth wand blaster currently, I watch the party portraits like a hawk for those ... dots indicating they are idle, Cipher mind controlling/stunning enemies and Phantom Foes to enable Apprentice Sneak Attack for everyone. Real-time with LOTS of pause.

[@Jiwary1]

Kingmaker was brutal for me. I had just finished POE2 on Path of the Damned difficulty and could barely play Kingmaker on normal difficulty.

[@deettee6794]

the pathfinder system in general is just... urgh. to min-max, you're looking at putting points across something like 3-4 different classes, 1-2 point splashes, etc. not to mention, the game severely punishes players for not knowing things before hand, e.g. getting freedom of movement. and once you do a second playthrough knowing everything you didn't know before, suddenly everything becomes a cakewalk. the same issue occurs with wotr too. not getting ray of exhaustion on ember can mean the difference between steamrolling everything or getting crushed every boss fight.

[@timm8998]

@@deettee6794 Steamroll it on unfair yes? I find that hard to believe.

[@deettee6794]

@@timm8998 did i say unfair difficulty?

[@timm8998]

@@deettee6794 oh yeh on lower difficulties i can steamroll it with 1 char and random build, its just not very meaningfull information then. If i steamroll a game i will higher the difficulty, i guess you dont.

[@deettee6794]

@@timm8998 good to know.

[@johnyshadow]

I don´t get DOS2 here. "I picked the hardest, ironman-mode difficulty, AND I had self-imposed rules..." And you struggled with that? Really? Who would have guessed... ;)

[@timm8998]

Tbh I dont think these are the hardest at all. He pretty much put all the famous games in here :D Except mb underrail All crpg fans played these games.

[@dempa3]

Baldurs Gate 1 and 2, had me loading my savefiles quite a bit. Pillars of Eternity is luckily not to difficult, because the deep and new rule system led to some missteps. There I found Pathfinder Kingmaker more "friendly", since it's similar to DnD 3.5. I wonder how Planescape Torment is.

[@zealgaming8161]

Planescape Torment is in general very easy. Though it can be tricky i guess if you don't know what to do. Spread all stats across INT, WIS, CHA and dump the rest. Then when you exit the starting area. Go to the northwest side of the city, there's a old witch somewhere there who after a lengthy fetch quest chain will unlock you the mage class. PT is a very strange game indeed.

[@theycallmecranberrysauce3382]

Planescape is a slog combatwise but a very unique vibe. Kinda forces you to play a low strength stats character tho. Its top teir though.

[@Baraz_Red]

Hardest for me was *Blackguards.* Even by spending a lot of time properly building and knowing the system, that game kicks you between the legs at almost every fight. It was fun though: I mean it does an autosave at the start and there is an easy restart button when you fall.

[@Blasted2Oblivion]

I remember when I decided to stop using cheats, exploits, and cheeses. It made me realize just how much I overestimated my skill at video games. I think I have found a decent rule. If I already beat something in a game once in a legit fashion, I can cheese it as much as I want later.

[@spaceghostohio7989]

DOS 2...came out of the cemetery and headed down the hill...invisible assassins ambushed the party to kill the Red Prince...never even got a chance to attack..they just going until the entire party was dead...happened twice in a row and that ended to game for me

[@cloudwalk4566]

When I finally killed the boss in Underrail, I felt so good :D

[@22Clearwater]

My main gripe with games like POE, Deadfire & Kingmaker is not the difficulty, its this: I like to create the whole party rather than use pre-made characters, and its often impossible to get the character models to match the available portraits, so you end up with characters who don't resemble their portraits much. I know its a bit fussy,/trivial but it really frustrates me. I spend hours trying to get it right, but am never fully satisfied. Beards, hairstyles, facial features etc on models rarely match the available portraits. Character creation is such a big part of these games for me.

[@bigwig8657]

So I played Tyranny when I was in a heavy Xcom Long War kick and remember act 1 being a bit tricky but not in the same league of difficulty. Iron man impossible is that difficulty for tactical rpgs, altho I would advise honor systeming the iron man with bronze man because their are a few bugs you can run into with line of sights that can end up squad wiping because cascading pulls. There are no cheese builds, snipers do eventually get pretty broken but you can't really support taking more than 1 on normal missions and 2 on expanded squad missions later. One of the huge things on its difficulty is beating a mission with the squad alive can still be very detrimental if everyone took injuries, as macro game fatigue and injuries on your roster are hugely important.

[@allie5842]

You're seriously a pillar of the cRPG community and a creator of awesome content!!! Keep it up!!

[@何足道-f4y]

I started underrail few days ago, the "no companion" hits me really hard.

[@russneversleeps8258]

I got Pillars of Eternity about a year or two after it came out, and I struggled with it so much that I quit. I finally went back and tried again, and finished it in 2019. But I never played the hardest difficulty and never will. I still haven't finished 2 either.

[@diegocalzolaio8179]

PoE and Tyranny are among the best games I've ever played. Unfortunately an intrinsic problem of RPGs, even in "pen-and-paper" is that the heroes just suck at low level: while this is part of the experience when one plays with his friends, it makes less sense in a videogame. In Tyranny as example, you are supposed to be an army leader, while then on the battlefield you are often weaker then normal soldiers.

[@domm6812]

Wow ....all of the games you listed are ones I've bought but haven't gotten to playing yet (except divinity 2 ....co-oped that with friends). Some rough times ahead.

[@JaeshaunDT]

Tyranny was my reintroduction to the genre, though I never finished the game. and despite struggling I kept finding the game to be a little too easy every time I progressed. eventually found myself going through on path of the damned with a single character and yeah, the first act was insane, especially the final encounter in act 1. pretty much had to use every single tool the game offered to make it through the first act.

[@timm8998]

He had 50+ deaths on it and you did it on 1 character? Or do you only have 1 character there anyway.

[@JaeshaunDT]

@@timm8998 I likely had as many deaths and yeah, I didn’t recruit any companions. Tbh game don’t seem to be made for that because I had to employ all manner of strategy to overcome encounters but it’s possible. Lol even remember one of the npcs being astounded by the fact. It always gets easier though in my experience because your character gains a lot more skills than they normally would get the chance

[@RICHIEV333]

The thing about Pillars of Eternity was, the stats were weird. For instance, if I remember right (it's been a while) Strength isn't how hard you hit, but determines the size of your AoE. So if you are a healer and have an AoE heal spell, or a mage and have AoE damage spells, you want lots of strength... this is the exact opposite of most fantasy games and not very intuitive when it comes to building your character if you play a lot of RPG's.

[@matternicuss]

I absolutely hate the attribute system in Pillars. I understand it was their way of balancing the classes, but conceptually it simply makes no sense to me. Your character's attributes are supposed to be an abstraction of who they are physically and mentally, and having Strength define both of those traits really bothered me lol.

[@mikfhan]

Yeah you kinda have to remind yourself the six attributes do not exist, they are just a grouping of their related effects like attack/spell/heal magnitude, accuracy, interrupt, etc. I almost wish they had just abandoned attributes entirely and let you raise their related effects directly in character creation/levelup, but maybe the grouping was necessary to balance out "dump stats" and such, if only Resolve were a bit more useful outside dialogue checks.

[@Ba1th1azar]

can confirm about path of the damned in tyranny. one of the hardest things ive managed to do in gaming.

[@gregoryberrycone]

have you played wizardry 8? that one took me a lot of effort to get into initially but it was so rewarding, definitely one of the best RPG's of all time

[@relishcakes4525]

My biggest gripe with underrail was when they updated and added a whole new mechanic completely invalidating my build and forcing me to start all the way over. Good game so I wasn’t super mad but DAMNIT I was in the middle of something!

[@felyp3able]

There is layers and layers, kingmaker i finish on hard with spellcrafters, Wotr i did on core with fighters and just one spellcrafter, was hard but i learned a lot, other comp is almost another type of game.

[@Gregorovitch144]

Dead right about that fight at the end of Act 1 Tyranny on PotD. Took me several attempts to beat that as well. It's a big spike, game gets much easier after that.

[@ObiJuanKenob]

That daily dose of may you wonder in wisdom. Missed the "all that YT Jazz" lol.

[@derekofbaltimore]

Dungeon rats is the one game that i not only turned down difficulty but even used console commands

[@marcusa2252]

Age of Decadence is one CRPG that does not mess around.

[@probablyDae5832]

To this day i don't understand pillars systems. The four defense system (Fortitude, Deflection, Reflex, and Will) just never clicked with me, i never knew what rare items were better than another, and there seemed to be a ton of bad abilities for casters/ciphers.

[@Tanuvein]

I did a run through of DOS2 with all physical guys without learning magic - though I allowed the use of scrolls and potions. It was pretty challenging but fun - admittedly I did honor mode with an optimized lone wolf pair and it actually made it so easy it was kind of boring.

[@FoxyFoxlyn]

DOS II......bloody oil field battle.Never again! I had to cheese it, to save that lad.

[@anlak1318]

I have to say, Tyranny is probably my favourite CRPG, my third playthrough was on "path of the damned", and i didn't really struggle on the last fight, i don't know why and how, but i beat it on my 4-5 try.

[@thenomad4123]

Didn't play Divinity 2 yet, but 1 made me struggle a lot and half of that was due to UI and similar problems. Misclicking, that weird problem of that dialogue screen (wherever I click it automatically travels to the top and I can't collect the data easily), game calculating area of effect wrongly. I still played the heck out of it, a testament to other parts of the game being excellent.

[@AlacrityTW]

Interesting no IWD1&2 HoF. Yes you get to preplan your entire party but that's how the game expect you to play. Most games allows mercs and playing with companions isn't mandatory. Then again CRPG difficulty varies depending on a lot of things and it's up to the players to avoid cheese/etc. Like in Pathfinder you can play solo without enabling "exp sharing with active party members" for the ultimate challenge.

[@camilaguimaraes6249]

I got so angry during the last Act 1 fight in Tyranny on the PotD. When I had finally managed to win after Idk how many tries, I got stuck on the loading screen that takes you to the top of the spire. I had to restart the game and after trying many times to win that fight again with no success, I just gave up and switched to hard mode. Won the fight on the first try 😢 it wasnt even fun. Definitely wanna try PotD again in the future. I still have the save from just before that fight waiting for me lol

[@Crypticmind242]

I keep hearing this term "outdated quest design", I struggle to think of a better way to do them, can anyone point to a game with non outdated quest designs?

[@tyran370]

PotD in Tyranny feels like an afterthought, it's not particularly balanced. For that fight you struggled with I eventually managed to split the enemies and do it in two parts. Eventually dropped it around halfway in because the cooldown based gameplay devolves into spamming whatever comes up with zero thought, while PotD just makes it take 10 times longer. It's one of the rare cases where I enjoyed a crpg more by just playing on normal and letting the combat win itself.

[@Zacurafire]

Ah yes, Tyranny path of the damned. I specifically remember chosing not to carry over my stats from my last playthrough and trying the mode fresh. That entire first act was just insanity. That last fight....that last fight I literally spent over an hour just pausing and unpausing every fraction of a second to analyze the situation over and over and over again lmao. You're better than me, because you finished. After I beat that fight, I uninstalled Tyranny and moved on. Love the game immensely, but I can't do it again lol

[@erthan6161]

I love the everything about the idea of the pathfinder games but in practise I could never even finish them (or even get a few hours in). I am not well versed in the class mechanics and trying to plan a character build started to feel like advanced calculus. I know I could probably just pick with whatever I want and roll with it but on one hand the difficulty often requires a decent build and I also hate feeling like I am wasting my time.

[@p-o2938]

I mainly struggled with Wasteland 3 so much that I just stopped playing. The armor / damage system should be pretty simple, but I never managed to get a grasp of it. I always felt like I shot pebbles to my foes instead of actual bullets.

[@Baraz_Red]

Tyranny : the first fights are scary ! I played on Hard (not sure how different that is to Expert; I think they are similar). It got rather easy later on of course after I found a more tanky companion, as I crafted better spells and optimized my companions.

[@carterpeele6544]

This isn’t technically a crpg but I would love to see a review of the neverwinter nights enhanced edition. I’m currently playing through it and I’m having a blast and I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on it.

[@AlacrityTW]

Neverwinter Nights is definitely a CRPG and a classic worth playing for sure. I personally like NWN2 better but the mods in NWN 1 was unparalleled.

[@carterpeele6544]

My bad, I meant it wasn’t an isometric crpg.

[@XenomorphsWrath]

The fight outside at the wall and the fight inside the spire of Tyrannys act 1 had me question my ability to play Crpgs ... I don't even remember how I got past it but I do remember increadible frustration and coming back several times. Kingmaker lost me. I want to play it. I like the story so far (got to kingdom management) and everything but the constant timers and "HAHAAAA you didn't know that this location will absolutly destroy you and therefor you are DEAD!" gameplay just eroded my will to play the game.

[@adeternitamn2859]

Whelp !! You just mentioned half of my top 10 all time favourite cRPGs. Guess I am a masochist! Who would have thought! I love all of these games, especially PoE1, DoS2, Kingmaker and Underrail. Those are in my top 5 ( easy). I specifically love them for the fact they offer some resistance. Whether through new mechanics ,or just plain having to go through a multi-layered maze blind ( yes original Underrail *had no map* , I had to design one by hand!! ),I enjoyed being challenged . This is due to the fact I grew up in an era games really did not care about helping you. You installed your game and that was it; no tutorials, no nothing. Swim or drown kind of situation. No online guides or anything of the sort either. I am therefore used to that mode now. It is part of what I enjoy in a game. the struggle to figure out the game mechanics and to find out whats good and whats bad. As Cavafy put it in his poem Ithaca: Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey. Without her you wouldn't have set out. She has nothing left to give you now. And if you find her poor, Ithaka won’t have fooled you. Wise as you will have become, so full of experience, you’ll have understood by then what these Ithakas mean

[@mateyiac]

Have you ever played Age of Decadence? It's a tough one but also truly excellent.

[@callmedavid9696]

I loved kingmaker, didn't find it too difficult to play but found it difficult to just keep playing at about 3/4 through. Found divinity 2 to be more difficult, not over all but certain situations seemed geared towards being roadblocks unless you had certain comp.

[@theorigionaldrew]

I keep on getting stuck in underrail it’s very frustrating. I feel like I’m missing out on some sort of power up because I just can’t clear encounters around the mid game.

[@StevenSmith-mk5fg]

Everyone struggles with Pathfinder in the beginning, even veteran table Top Pathfinder players. On top of the sheer amount of spells/actions/builds to get your head around, the game still suffers from difficulty spikes. You'll be cruising along on hard difficulty and then come into a situatuation that yo can only get past by lowering the difficulty

[@ragvald8835]

I've beaten wrath of the righteous twice on core, and started third one on hard. I can't beat the prologue, lmao. After like 30 tries on a random lvl 5 dude in a corridor (on lvl 2), I thought "why am I doing this to myself". It's definetely hardest one for me, enemy stats are bloated beyond belief. Had no trouble with Pillars on PotD, some troubles with DOS:2 on tactical, bunch of others on hardmode, but IMHO nothing compares to wotr BS. Even Kingmaker was kinda mild (played after wotr on core), enemies at least had reasonable stats. Haven't finished that one yet, though, but I'm close ( lvl14).

[@JohnnyTightIips]

Even on Normal, PF Kingmaker was difficult to get through without really good builds, and the kingdom management was not done in a fun way.

[@walterkrueger5947]

I still haven't finished kingmaker, I think my problem is story grinds to a halt after the first act.

[@svendays]

Baldur's Gate was the first CRPG I played. It is still the most difficult CRPG I've ever played lol

[@shadowfox2300]

worst thing with divinity os 2 was the fact they over did the use of death fog

[@DanielLopez-zt4ig]

I would like to get into crpgs, but somehow I find them difficult, being the most difficult ones I have played Wasteland 1, Fallout 1 and Morrowind. I look forward to playing Baldurs Gate 1, Wasteland 2 and Jagged Alliance 2.

[@Jandau85]

Oh god, Kingmaker. Yeah, that game just doesn't want to be played. It's amazing how awesome and horrible the game is at the same time. For me it was the kingdom management. Specifically, the game forcing you into "stasis" for weeks when you do certain projects. The thing that turned that game around for me was a mod that sets all Kingdom project durations to 1 day. After that I was set. And Wrath is IMO just as bad, taking a step back for every step forward. I love the game, I have over 300 hours clocked on it, but it'll be a while before I muster the fortitude to finish it...

[@antondavidovic3996]

Icewind Dale 2's also a really good high blood pressure simulator

[@theycallmecranberrysauce3382]

Pillars is a bit of a slog because of all the text walls..... but still a good experience. It won me over with the character creation screen tbh.

[@speedrakk]

you got to try arc the lad 1 and 2 twilight of spirits also, tactics ogre knights of lodis. any tactics ogre actually. also, vanguard bandits and the robot wars games. these are mainly on ps1 but have been made for other systems.tactics ogre is my all time favorite then comes arc the lad.

[@speedrakk]

the robot wars games are being released on computer finally.

[@bradleywalsh8571]

Did you ever master the kingdom management aspect of Kingmaker?

[@MortismalGaming]

Yeah its not all that difficult once you understand it, its just painfully tedious

[@KarlWinterling]

Classic Mode in DOS2 honestly feels a bit like a "hard mode" setting for people who already have a lot of experience with turn-based tactics games and turn-based Western RPGs. Tactician Mode and Honour Mode are for people who think Classic Mode is too easy.

[@KarlWinterling]

I think the story, characters, art, and music are all excellent. The combat still has a lot of problems, like how the optimal approach in almost every fight is to deal as much damage as possible and use area of effect attacks to crowd control enemies. Tactician Mode isn't that different from Classic Mode (the same approach to a fight will likely work) except that it makes certain enemies more annoying. The Path of the Damned difficulty in the Pillars of Eternity games actually makes encounters significantly more complex.

[@black_nodius8177]

For me it was WoTR because my stupid ass didn't listen to the warnings of my friends and played the game on unfair for my first playthrough of a pathfinder game

[@timm8998]

Aha :D Yes that should be fun.

[@MrJfgh]

Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader isn't on the list because there was no struggle. It steamrolled everyone's will to play it after about an hour or two.

[@CidGuerreiro1234]

I spent over a month camping in front of the door to the final boss of Kingmaker. I had enjoyed my run up to that point but simply couldn't push myself into even opening the game anymore. The final dungeon had been truly, truly terrible. At some point I gathered my strenght and opened it again to fight Nerissa, and even somehow found the strenght to not finish the game prematurely and go for the Lantern King after her instead. I really enjoyed the game overall but my God, the burnout was beyond insane.

[@joearnold6881]

I modded Pathfinder Kingmaker, But a broken mod halfway through borked my play through, which made me move on. That means I haven’t played the sequel either. Maybe someday I’ll go back to Pathfinder. I really did like it.

[@MortismalGaming]

I mean the sequel has nothing to do with the first game. Pathfinder uses adventure paths which are mostly unrelated

[@arlem525]

I couldn't get Kingmaker to even load.

[@shomzlezilebovic]

@Mortismal Gaming Did you check out Disco Elysium from polish developer ZA/UM? Would like to see your take on it