Five Things You Didn't Know About F-104 Starfighter

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F-104 Starfighter is possibly the most controversial jet fighter of all times. Its mostly from its service in the German Luftwaffe that it earned nicknames such as '"Widow Maker' and 'Flying Coffin'. Here are some facts about it which are generally not well known.
This is another reenactment created with the most realistic military flying simulation - DCS World
Sources:
- Peter E. Davies - F-104 Starfighter Units in Combat
amzn.to/3wq7dzg
- www.916-starfighter.de/main.htm
- F-104 Starfighter, the "Widowmaker" [Mythbusting] - evolution of the military aviation safety
• F-104 Starfighter, th...
- Paul A. Jackson - Republic F-84F Thunderstreak and RF-84F Thunderflash in European Air Forces
amzn.to/3AGAzMA
- Belgian F-84F Thunderstreak at Florennes AB (1968)
• Belgian F-84F Thunders...
- Dan Hampton - Viper Pilot: A Memoir of Air Combat
amzn.to/3CAXREK
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Bustin Loose by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
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#militaryaviationhistory #f104 #dcsworldhistoricalreenactment

[@showtime112]

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[@williamleadbetter9686]

How many different weapons are available for VSN's F-104 Starfighter? Does it have radar guided air to air missiles?

[@robertboykin1828]

The engine, J-79, has an electronic fuel control. It was designed by John R boykin, my father. @ the test cell on 1"st run up, the test manager reached over to the control console and jammed the throttle to full AB. a dangerous move for an untested engine. It worked perfectly.

[@jaxmeoff3974]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing!

[@showtime112]

That's a little known fact, thanks for bringing it up.

[@cocodog85]

a good engine in a garbage air frame.

[@jackdoyle9448]

@@cocodog85 history does not support your statement. Fighter pilots of the era fought to get assigned to the Starfighter because it was the hottest ride available. To this day NASA subcontracts F-104's as chase aircraft because they have never found a decent replacement.

[@cocodog85]

@@jackdoyle9448 good chase plane, lousy fighter, pathetic bomber, no range interceptor...junk.

[@donparker1823]

A friend of mine flew F-106's. He said they often held exercises with F-104 squadron's since the F-104 had a similar look and flight characteristics of the Mig-21. He was pretty proud of the F-106 and said it could do everything better than the F-104 except in acceleration.

[@showtime112]

I listened to a few interviews with Bruce Gordon who also flew F-106. Serms it was a pretty special airplane.

[@lancerevell5979]

In the late 1970s, I was an avionics tech on the F-106, F-101 and T-33. The F-106 pilots loved it.

[@robertraczki6220]

I still have the article somewhere, a Canadian 104 pilot wrote that the control surfaces were so enemic that at low air speeds the gyroscopic effects of the engine would kick in. So if the piolt got close to stall, pushing the stick forward caused the aircraft to yaw right. Loads of fun at 140Kts and 200 feet above ground

[@showtime112]

Didn't know that. Like in a good old propeller airplane 😁

[@jkoysza1]

This a/c was not meant to go slow. Not sure how to land it though.

[@offshorequest]

Another great and informative video! In the early 1960's my father and our family were stationed at an American air base in West Germany. Our base was operating F-100, F-101 and F-102 aircraft but West German F-104's were often seen in the sky and would occasionally visit our base.

[@showtime112]

Wow, that was an interesting childhood! Nothing like that in my case. 😁

[@34500dauphin]

BitBurg or Ramstein?

[@michaelpielorz9283]

But more often F104`s were seen on the ground and partially in the ground.We had a saying no need to shoot at a F104, just wait!

[@dukecraig2402]

I was stationed in Germany in 1984, those F104's buzzing the countryside with the iron cross on them were cool as hell.

[@Ezekiel903]

the Italian doesn't had this problem, they lost some fighter but never like what happens in Germany, don't know why!

[@Yamieguy]

An interesting somewhat debunking of the widowmaker myth. I wasn't aware of the Luftwaffee F84 issues but similar factor with the 104 there... and while famed ace Erich Hartman was a well known critic of the type, Johannes Steinhoff led a series of training reform which made a huge difference.

[@showtime112]

True, Hartmann was against it. To be honest, Luftwaffe had problems with much simpler F-84F so it was only natural for this problem to continue.

[@TLTeo]

Even the F-86, which everyone also loves, had a horrific safety record in the Luftwaffe.

[@lancerevell5979]

The Germans tried to make a thoroughbred work as a drafthorse. Self-generated problems.

[@Real_Claudy_Focan]

7:28 These are belgian F-84F's ! We also used F-104G's later with a record low loss rate for the EU fleet ! Explanations i got from a former Starfighter pilot was that german pilots were more used to flying their jets "by the guts" like F-86/CL-13 (high perfs, but flyable "by guts") He said to me that the best way to crash a F-104 was to believe "your guts" and your senses ! Apparently the plane was very good at desorienting pilots and belgian pilots never flown such high performance jets before trusted what Lockheed said to them ; "fly by instruments and stay at any times within limits and do not trust your senses" ! In BAF, pilots were used to Vampires, Hunters (at best) and trained on Fouga Magister, they were not used to high perfs such as germans were used to. They massively respected the plane and performed crazy stunts in them ! kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKqldXh9bsmaY7M

[@showtime112]

True, that is the footage of Belgian F-84Fs. Couldn't find any good Luftwaffe footage. Thanks for sharing this insight, that might have been one of the key factors!

[@glenhallick3953]

Thanks for highlighting a huge flaw in the arguments against the Starfighter - that it's contemporaries also incurred very sizeable losses. While the RCAF/Air Commands lost about half of its CF-104 Starfighters from 1962 to 1987, over 300 CL-Sabres were lost between 1950-61, almost half. Yet that's 25 years for the Starfighter in flying low-level missions and 12 years for the Sabre in flying much higher missions.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the feedback and for providing additional info. The media can destroy anyone or anything when they want and a bad reputation is almost impossible to shake off.

[@ralfhtg1056]

Another eason why so many german Starfighters crashed: it was parked outside of hangars, night and day, no matter the weather. THe Luftwaffe used it as an all weather interceptor. Turned out the avionics were vulnerable to weather conditions, causing many malfunctions.

[@showtime112]

True. They purchased a lot of them bit didn't invest in a proper maintenance. Not initially at least.

[@kz11377]

Fun fact. The F104's wings were so sharp, their trailing edges were covered with plastic protective strips when the aircraft were parked, to avoid injuring the technical crews.

[@showtime112]

Wearing a helmet was a lot more important around this airplane than any other 😁

[@viktort8229]

Folded a thousand times

[@patopato9668]

was just a mith...

[@haedubabaganush]

you could tell 104 ground grew by the band aids on their foreheads 😁

[@billgund4532]

Actually it was the leading edge.

[@Tamburello_1994]

I'm so proud, and glad to see you growing, and continuing to produce great content. Look at you, with sponsorship, and whatnot. Well-deserved accolades, keep up the great work. Signed -- A loyal, and ardent fan.

[@showtime112]

Thanks, it's nice to hear from you again! Glad you are still watching!

[@Tamburello_1994]

@@showtime112 I'll be here till the end, mate. I may not comment every time but rest assured you're on the playlist.

[@showtime112]

@@Tamburello_1994 Well, I don't intend to quit anytime soon 😉

[@raynus1160]

Quite possibly the most beautiful combat jet to take wing. (Honourable mention to the F-5)

[@showtime112]

I've never heard anyone saying it was ugly 😁

[@box8brewing829]

Look forward to you vids weekly, thanks for taking the time to do these great scenarios. As usual, another interesting lesson!

[@showtime112]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@yoda5565]

Thank you. I was a tank commander in Germany in the early 1980's. On a large NATO maneuver, I saw two Bundesluft 105's streak past at a fairly low level, in a snow covered valley like your simulation shows. I was always challenged about the sighting, as I was told they were out of German service by then. This was well before 1987, Reagan was in charge and all the toys came out for REFORGER.

[@showtime112]

Thanks for sharing. One viewer told me to 'check my facts' because according to him, Luftwaffe was long gone by the time F-104 was designed. It might have been the same guy who challenged you 🤣

[@onkelmicke9670]

There could never be enough F-104 content

[@showtime112]

I was counting on that 😁😁😁

[@bigcity2085]

The U.S. government stopped buying the F-104, so Lockheed went around the world bribing foreign governments to buy it, and yes, it crashed all over the planet from Canada to Germany and we passed laws that business's can't bribe foreign governments. And the F-104 was in an original episode of Star Trek.

[@raynus1160]

#7: Canada chose the Starfighter over Republic's F-105 Thunderchief (among others) for its NATO nuclear strike/rcce roles in Europe from 1964 to 1972. USAF-supplied and managed B28, B43 and B57 nuclear gravity bombs were assigned to Canadian squadrons. 104 squadrons converted to conventional ground attack in 1972 following the Government's decision to step out of the nuclear weapons arena. The type was retired in 1986, 24 years after entering service. 200 CF-104's were built by Canadair for RCAF service, along with 38 dual-place F-104D's from Lockheed.

[@showtime112]

Another idea for the sequel, thanks!

[@blackfalco33]

Your accuracy in makin' these videos is incredibile man! Keep 'em coming! :)

[@showtime112]

Don't worry, more coming up!

[@jasonmorahan7450]

Number 6: the F-104 wide chord wings blocked air over the T-tail elevators at high angles of attack, inducing a fatal longitudinal instability which is believed the main contributor to accidents by inexperienced pilots.

[@showtime112]

That's gonna be in the sequel 😁

[@jasonmorahan7450]

@@showtime112 😄 Been enjoying these recreations btw. Good content 👍

[@DCrypt1]

aka aerodynamic shadow

[@shawnw1291]

It's also called as deep stall

[@philgooddr.7850]

Higher speed and lower AOA was the only surviving solution… specially while heavy after takeoff and with such a small wing area and very high load charge per sq.ft. the stalls were extremely sudden and abrupts…and no time to pull down flaps either..

[@bennybenitez2461]

Great presentation. Most interesting and informative. Keep up the good work.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the feedback, more coming up.

[@hemihead001]

I loved the Starfighter every since I first saw it .

[@showtime112]

I have never heard of anyone saying it didn't look good :)

[@trevormillar1576]

Luftwaffe joke: How do you get an F-104? Buy a field and wait...

[@Noisy_Cricket]

Number 1 is basically the literally "when you come for the King, you best not miss."

[@showtime112]

It's a risky business alright 😁

[@PappaBear_yt]

Great video! I really like the cut-in of real footage, made me look twice. 😁👍🏻👏🏻💪🏻🍻🙋🏼‍♂️

[@showtime112]

There is a mod of the standard F-84 and I was gonna use that. But the wings make it quite different and I thought, why not? Thanks for another comment!

[@arnoldcohen1250]

The comments about the limited space used by the Vulcan Gatling gun were true because it was originally designed without guns, just rockets. My late father-in-law was in AF R+D on the Straighter project, and a highly experienced combat fighter pilot. He went for an early inspection and asked where the guns fit. He was told there would be no need for guns in the future, just missills/rockets. He told them to take the advice of an old fighter pilot, all fighters will at some time need guns. This led to the first Gatling gun and first infra red sight on a plane. At least this is how I recall his story.

[@showtime112]

Thanks for sharing this. It seems like a voice of reason could still find its way through all that nonsense.

[@msgfrmdaactionman3000]

I was on a Navy cruiser designed in the early 1960s (USS Leahy) that only had missiles on it and nothing bigger then a .50 cal gun. It was an uneasy feeling for me sailing into the Persian Gulf in the 80s looking at Iranian gunboats with their tank sized guns!

[@MrOlgrumpy]

Thanks again for great informative content,the Lightening was nicknamed the "Frightening" for it's outstanding acceleration and climb rate 👍🙃

[@showtime112]

Thank you for commenting and providing additional info. Frightening is pretty bad but probably still not as bad as 'Flying Coffin' 😁

[@StalinLovsMsmZioglowfagz]

Such a great chan, glad I’ve always subbed.

[@showtime112]

Thanks for the feedback and for the subscription!

[@StalinLovsMsmZioglowfagz]

@@showtime112 It’s a pleasure to watch your channel garner the subs it deserves, cheers.

[@kennethjackson7574]

I used to live under one of the SFO flight paths. One day, out in my driveway, I heard something overhead that didn’t sound like most. Looked up, saw a F104 southbound. I moved from there in 2006, so it was before then. I also loved seeing the one at the Air and Space Museum in a Washington, D.C. Without wingtip tanks it was even more wicked than the ones with greater range.

[@showtime112]

Thanks for sharing.

[@tazb745]

We used to have saying that if you wanted CF104, just buy an acre of Germany and wait. Using a 104 for ground support was ideotic, it had the aerodynamics of a grand piano.

[@andywells397]

Excellently informative.

[@showtime112]

Thanks, I appreciat that!

[@ale1022]

Outstanding episode - bravo..

[@showtime112]

Thank you for your comment!

[@davidfortezadelrey3181]

Brilliant video!

[@showtime112]

Thank you for your comment!

[@idiotgaming4701]

love your videos, and i REALLY love the f104! but i still managed to learn new things :)

[@showtime112]

Good, so the concept of the video worked. 😁

[@ryanwilbur3554]

I still think it's crazy that the F-104 was in service with Italy up until 2014

[@showtime112]

Wasn't that 2004?

[@ryanwilbur3554]

@@showtime112 Oops, you're right. My bad

[@jackp8583]

Saw an old F-104 at an amusement park! Had no wheels so I was able to look straight into the cockpit. Up close the F-104 is a very sexy bird, literally a waistline on her. This example was so stripped and neglected I actually felt sad to see a proud warrior so forgotten. Gave her pets and spoke to her. Weird, I know, but it somehow felt important to do.

[@showtime112]

I have to say I've never heard of old fighter jets in amusement parks 😁 But still, you had a chance to come close to one which is a good thing.

[@libertycowboy2495]

I totally understand

[@iljajekimov4997]

Thank you for your videos. Aslo waiting for something with newly released Mirage F1, should be interesting to see what sortie you choose.

[@showtime112]

Working on it right now. There will be several videos in a row with the Mirage F.1

[@socaljarhead7670]

At brake release the aircraft would reach over 60mph….with the engine at idle.

[@Ceusky]

Awesome loved it

[@showtime112]

Nice to hear, thanks!

[@VangelisKontogeorgakos]

Great video! The Greek Air force operated the F-104G with relative low losses for 29 years. The pilots that flew this plane adore it to this day.

[@showtime112]

Thanks for the comment. They probably used it in a role more suitable to what it was designed for.

[@VangelisKontogeorgakos]

@@showtime112 The Greek F-104G were used for low altitude strike missions, delivering either nuclear or conventional weapons. This type of aircraft excelled in a completely different role from its initial purpose. P.S. I forwarded your video in a Greek F-104G related facebook community!

[@showtime112]

@@VangelisKontogeorgakos Thanks, I appreciate it!

[@tradingmetamorphosis7197]

@@VangelisKontogeorgakos Greece doesn’t have nuclear weapon….

[@VangelisKontogeorgakos]

@@tradingmetamorphosis7197 As part of NATO, specific units were tasked with nuclear strike, with US nuclear bombs.

[@paogene1288]

Cool, I am going to make a Fleet of CAS out of 'em with Downward Firing Ejection Ports.

[@paogene1288]

On a second note, anything Star Fighter brightens my day. Thank you @Showtime112.

[@showtime112]

Thank you! It's hard to say whether it is more loved or hated 😁

[@kalas1988]

Kao uvijek, prvoklasno. Best regards from Split

[@showtime112]

Hvala na prgledu i komentaru!

[@SelfRaisingWheat]

That little Jordanian setup against king Hussein reminds me of the several South Vietnamese F-5 pilot defectors who bombed the presidential palace during the war.

[@showtime112]

I can't remember the details but I think those two were not the only cases of Air Force attempting to kill the ruler 😁

[@usaturnuranus]

I've seen a few publicity photos from the late 1950s depicting a Starfighter parked next to a brand new automobile of the era. To me, these photos are actually pretty jarring - these gleaming planes look so sleek and advanced compared to those stodgy old car designs that it's like a visitor from a future world wound up landing on Earth through some kind of wormhole. Always considered the F104s to be among the most beautiful aircraft ever produced. Touchy to pilot, no doubt, but given the years they were made and the lack of computerized stability systems I have to greatly admire both the aircraft and the men who mastered them. Awesome!

[@showtime112]

Actually, the csrs wete very space age too in their design and technology. Just compare them to designes from the 1930s. Thanks for sharing!

[@AdamWalkLikeSuicide]

Loved the video x

[@showtime112]

Glad to hear it!

[@apflyingamer3623]

A good one, I see it's doing rather well in the number of views!

[@showtime112]

I'm quite happy with it :)

[@markingelin9773]

No mention of Yeager and the rocket assisted F-104?

[@showtime112]

I had to leave something for the sequel. 'Five More Things You Didn't Know About the F-104' 😁

[@cleversonsutil4495]

Congratulation! It was a great video. You can start a new series "Things you didn't know about"

[@showtime112]

Thanks. The idea did cross my mind 😁

[@johnleach7879]

On the operating end, the F104 was "purdy fast: when you pull out, don't bother looking behind you 'cuz nothing's going to catch you." Instructor pilot.

[@showtime112]

What a cool philosophy 😁

[@bradmiller9507]

Thanks!

[@philgooddr.7850]

The Starfighter stall suddenly and at high velocity specially while heavy, just after take off…and it is where most the engine failures do occur, since if the engine ran 5 minutes near full power, it will go on for 2 hours more..This was forcing pilots to stay well above a critical low speed, to react and eject fast while flying low was an additional risk because deceleration without power was there extremely rapide with no room for descending…During many years, the old Lufthansa pilots, the “Luftwaffe F104 survivors” were famous for their fast power landing of the numerous B737 of the fleet, obsessed by the need of a speed safety blanket on their old F104 incredible missiles…the mid wing mono-block design and streamlined flap with very small salmons are truly remarquable and speed and climbing performance unmatched at the time. The J79 noise was just as awful as the black trail behind..

[@showtime112]

Thanks for contributing!

[@craigsawyer6453]

The howl of the engine was unmistakable and sounded like a wild animal.

[@corenmaryweijers1895]

Totally awesome vid.. One small thing though, in the part about the dutch ones, you show the wrong ones.. The ones you show have all got tail emblems of the 306 TFRS.. One might have been there, but all six?

[@showtime112]

Thanks for commenting. As for the aircraft skins, these videos rarely go to such details. Skins are hard to do and it takes a long time to create them. Even for someone with great skill, it would be impossible to keep up with release schedule required by YT making all the correct skins.

[@Nana-rk2xn]

I love the Starfighter."Sternenjäger". 💕

[@showtime112]

Many do 😁

[@Nana-rk2xn]

@@showtime112 Since the 80s, in the JaboG 32 on the Lechfeld. 😊. Liebe Grüße aus Deutschland.

[@savalakanekar95574]

I think they had not installed fare dispenser because of t shaped tail . Since air flow may be turblent while the aircraft was turning and flares may flow in wave ward direction.

[@b2tall239]

"Lawn Dart" Best derogatory nickname for a plane ever.😁

[@showtime112]

And not as mean as some others!

[@berndhach1706]

I Served as mechanik in the german air force from 1983 till 1987. I Was trained to serve this weapon system and trained severel guys euch year. My opinion is, The german air force made the mistake not to use this great aircraft as it was constructed for, as an interceptor. I am proud of that time and it was an great airplane, dificult to fly, but the pilots loved it to. Sorry my english is a litlte bit corroded after this long time.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for sharing your experience and opinion. Your English is just fine.

[@bkup1332]

Du schreibst ganz gut, Mensch. 😃

[@berndhach1706]

@@bkup1332 Ja very gut, ich weiß ich war schon mal besser, aber mit der Zeit, ohne dass man es ständig braucht, wirds halt doch schwierig etwas in Englisch raus zu bringen😉. Ist leider nicht ganz so wie Fahrrad fahren.

[@bkup1332]

@@berndhach1706 ich bin gerade in München und Salzburg gewesen und, mit vollem Eintauchen, ist Alles zurückgekommen (aber ich hätte ein kleines Amerikannisches/Englandisches Akzent gehabt - ich komme aus Kalifornien, bin Ami). Vieleicht brauchst du einfach nur eine Reise nach London oder die USA. 👍😉

[@bkup1332]

@@berndhach1706 Musik hilft auch. Ich rede manchmal so wie Hubert von Goisern. 😉

[@TheNorbica]

Yup, the Hungarian 21s would deserve a video on their own! Great video, thorough research, thanks for making them!

[@showtime112]

Perhaps kt could be done someday, especially if we get early MiG-21 variants. Thanks for the support!

[@matteohetzy7599]

I'm quite surprised Italian Air Force wasn't mentioned. It's true that the version produced in higher numbers is the G that was from Germany that led that development, but that was actually an international thing, also Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, Italy and others joined the production and adoption of the "G", the Dutch manufacturer Fokker produced more "G"s than the German MBB and Messerschmitt combined. And including all the following versions even more 104s were built in Italy by FIAT(Aeritalia), more than anyone else except Lockeed. Italian Air Force also had 104s in active service untill the first half of the 2000s. It's no coincidence that among the few still flying for private entities there are ex-Italian 104s and also among the pilots of these private businesses at least 1 is a former Italian Air Force Pilot, they were most likely the last pilots qualifying for the 104. The F-104S was the last main version to be introduced and it was developed and produced entirely by FIAT and adopted mainly by Italian airforce (205 planes) and a small number was sold to Turkey (40 planes). The even more recent subversions S-ASA(1986) and S-ASA-M(1997) entered service while many of the other operators were already phasing out their fleets of 104s

[@showtime112]

There wasn't something very specific about the Italian use of F-104 except that it was the last operator . I think that's rather well known but maybe there will be a sequel to this video and they get a mention.

[@ThePilot4ever]

Very cool stuff

[@showtime112]

Glad you liked it!

[@robertopacilli3104]

Another great video, only miss the data about italian F 104 as the italian air force use them for the longest operative period.

[@showtime112]

Thanks a lot! Yes, Italy was the last operator but I thought it was relatively well known.

[@thatoneraotguy2590]

The video is very nice, I really liked it, but there's something wrong. At the very start, at 0:14 you said "It saw mostly service with the German 'Luftwaffe'". It did indeed see intensive service with the Luftwaffe, but its greatest user wasn't actually Germany, but Italy. It didn't have as many, but the service time was almost 1.5 times longer (40 years), starting from 1964. Soon after, in 1966, the Italian Air Force was looking for new planes to put into service (and two of the most likely choices were the F-4F or the F-4E), but Lockeed instead proposed a modified version of the F-104G, to stay in par with the times. Italy accepted, especially due to the cost reduction compared to buying new airframes. It was called F-104S, where the S stands for 'Sparrow'. It had some avionic and aerodynamic improvements, but the most important feature was, as you might guess, the ability to carry AIM-7E 'Sparrows' (the first variant, not the E-2). But this came with a price: due to the small F-104 fuselage, in order to use them, the 20mm 'Vulcan' gattling cannon had to be removed, to make up space for the guidance system (For this reason the F-104S's fuselage was also redesigned a bit mechanically to be easier to access to, to switch easily Cannon and guidance system). Due to space reasons though, it didn't feature countermeasures. 20 yeara later, in 1986, as the times were changing and technology was evolving, Italy decided to upgrade its outdated F-104Ss (While the Eurofighter project was a few years into development), wich ultimately resulted in the F-104S-ASA (ASA stands for 'Aggiornamenti Sistemi d'Arma', or 'Weapons Systems Update' in English). It featured enhanced aerodynamics, a modified engine, a completely new radar set with MTI mode, new missiles (AIM-9Ls, all-aspect IR missiles, along with the old AIM-7s), a new RWR system (It couldn't tell the direction of radar signatures, so only sound was present, but it featured a ECM jammer, wich would make it very tough to lock together with the already low radar cross-section of the F-104). Countermeasures were also added. Like it's predecessor though, SARH missiles couldn't be paired with the Vulcan, but was much less of a problem. An F-104S-ASA-2 was made an year or 2 later, to feature the new Aspidi-1A missiles,, enhanced AIM-7s with 35G of max overload, max speed of Mach 5 and a new guidance system. About a decade later, in 1994, another modification was ordered, the F-104S-ASA-M (where the M stand for 'Modificato', or 'Modified' in English). Avionics was better, especially navigation avionic; the RWR/Jammer was removed in favor of a standard RWR; a new HUD was featured (the old one would only indicate the roll of the aircraft compared to the horizon and the range to a locked target with a little bar, but only from 2kms away, working essentially like a range-finder for the gun); 2 MFDs were also introduced. The cannon space problem didn't exist anymore, but the ITAF still decided to not put as it had completely transitioned to an aerial interceptor. Other upgrades were made, like the enhanced hydraulic and electric systems, but most of them were only done to make the aircraft more survivable due to it's dangerous landing characteristichs. Ultimately, it saw official retirement in 2004 (but in 2003 it already was barely used as F-16ADFs were delivered in leasing while waiting for the Eurofighter, wich entered production and service in the following year). Next year the F-104 will fly again for the 100th anniversary of the Italian Air Force. Fun fact n.6: In its last decade of service, the Italians gave it the name of "Il lamento del contribuente" ("The tax-payer's lament", due to the controversies caused by the remaining in service for so long of what was an heavily outdated plane, with expensive maintenance and a great kill-count among pilots due to accidents, especially in the landing sequence).

[@showtime112]

No, I didn't say that. I said '...it was mostly its service with the German Luftwaffe which resulted in nicknames such as “Widow Maker” or “Flying Coffin”.'

[@thatoneraotguy2590]

@@showtime112 And what's the difference from "It saw mostly service with the German 'Luftwaffe'"?

[@showtime112]

@@thatoneraotguy2590 What is the difference? Seriously? I was talking about where the nicknames came from, not in which service it flew the longest.

[@thatoneraotguy2590]

@@showtime112 Then I suppose what you were trying to say was "It saw extensive service with the German 'Luftwaffe' wich resulted in nicknames such as 'Widowmaker' and 'Flying Coffin'..."? I'm sorry if I seemed a bit rude, there just was a misunderstanding from my part. Have a great day / night / whatever pal!

[@showtime112]

@@thatoneraotguy2590 Something like that. There's another guy who also misheard it but he was much ruder 😁 YT either deleted his comment, or he did it himself.

[@drinksnapple8997]

#6. The Italians took the F104G, and turned it into a true interceptor with all-weather AAW capability, over 3,000lbs more of thrust, look-down/shoot-down radar, modern ESM, and INS - the F104S. That was the real "SUPER STARFIGHTER">

[@showtime112]

With so many suggestions, part two of the video seems inevitable 😁

[@billgund4532]

AKA "The Spaghetti Starfighter." My dad was a Zipper IP. He passed away in 2021. I proudly have his helmet, Flight Suit and "spurs" on display in my man cave.

[@patshes1951]

Thanks . I never knew anything about the starfighter.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for your feedback, it helps!

[@howardjohnson2138]

Thanks

[@showtime112]

Thank you for your comment!

[@OldSloGuy]

The Luftwaffe had commissioned and enlisted pilots flying the F-104. Officers could preflight the plane, squawk it, and walk back to the ready room. Enlisted pilots did not have that option, they had to fly. Mechanics were overwhelmed with an unfamiliar airplane. It didn't help that the wing leading edge was as sharp as a knife. The F-104 was a dream to fly supersonic, not so much at landing speeds. This was the first airplane whose speed in a climb was equal to the speed in level flight. That changed the rules of engagement. There was no longer an advantage to being above the target in air combat.

[@rhysgoodman7628]

Personally, I’d rather have the F-106, but an F-104 would be pretty cool as well. I’d like the F-106 because it’s got a limited range with its AIM-4 missiles, but it was an absolutely ridiculous gunfighter. It would be very interesting to fly I think.

[@showtime112]

F-106 seems to have been a fascinating plane. Personally, I find the Starfighter more interesting because it's really been around

[@rhysgoodman7628]

@@showtime112 that’s fair.

[@estellemelodimitchell8259]

I thought F-4 Phantom was the only Vietnam War era aircraft participating and n Desert Storm. Didn’t know that F-104 had a hand in it too. Learnt something today!

[@showtime112]

Well, F-104 played a very 'support' role in Desert Storm 😁 But there were several of them. F-111, A-6, A-7. Ever A-4 flying for the Kuwaitis.

[@patopato9668]

The Italian F-104 ASA M (aggiornamento sistema di armi / modificato = kinda actualization weapons system / modernization or modification), well they play some photo recon missions on the Turky/Irak frontier

[@vanguard9067]

Also known as the “tent peg” by the German pilots. Still my favorite fighter and another Kelly Johnson beauty.

[@dynmicpara]

How useful would a NEW F-104Z be today with canards, smokeless turbofan engine with thrust vectoring, AESA radar, BVR AAMs saw AIM-120s and a RECOVERY PARACHUTE to bring the whole thing down when it starts acting like a lawn dart...that operates from Short Ramp Take-Off (SRATO) trailers mobile & dispersed like the Swedish BAS90 system?

[@billpotokar360]

excellent graphics... 6:54...such as the planes shadow as it went past the sun...

[@showtime112]

Current graphics in DCS can be quite good under proper circumstances. I hope to acquire a new graphic card soon for extra details and better frame rate.

[@bergomynkia]

To access the Discord link, it want my phone number but I don't want to give it to it. Is there another method to enter that chat?

[@showtime112]

You mean when opening your Discord account? I suppose you didn't have it before? I don't think they asked for my phone number when I was opening it. Just the mail address. But I was opening it on the PC, I only installed the mobile app later.

[@Yamieguy]

My father worked on the type for years with the RCAF. Bad joke of the day..."Q) How do you get a 104 of your very own? A) Buy a piece of land in Germany!" Probably not fair, all things considered.

[@showtime112]

Yes, there are some sources which prove that it wasn't as bad as most people believe. But once you get this reputation, it's incredibly hard to shake off.

[@Surestick88]

The Canadians say their pretty good loss rate in the Zipper was due to their professionalism. The Germans blamed the airplane for their bad loss rate.

[@andrihariadi8599]

For No. 2 story, it would be better if you mention in the narative "...Dutch East Indies or known as Indonesia now..." Thank you 🙏🏻

[@showtime112]

You are right, that was probably a bit insensitive from my side.

[@guinnog2]

Very good and very interesting. No mention of the bribery scandal?

[@showtime112]

Thanks! Well, DCS doesn't have the proper assets for something like that 😁

[@guinnog2]

@@showtime112 No, that was Strauss wasn't it?

[@wescarr1526]

Check out the movie Blue Tornado with Dirk Benedict from BSG as an F-104 pilot at an Italian airbase.

[@showtime112]

Thanks for the tip!

[@polarvortex3294]

I think most people really underestimate how many warplanes are lost as a result of accidents compared to combat. Makes me think that a newly manufactured, yet old-design, plane with all the bugs worked out would be better for most nations than a state-of-the-art plane that possesses several unknown flaws and dangers -- especially when monetary costs as well as lives are considered.

[@showtime112]

Could be. But then again, every new generation of airplanes is more reliable than the previous . Especially after a few years of service.

[@walterrichards4362]

I was stationed with the US Air Force in the late '60"s when the German Luftwafe flew the F-104's. It was a common joke that the entire fleet of the jets were grounded Again because another one had gone down without explanation. The joke was that somewhere in the cockpit a warning light came on and the pilot immediately ejected without trying to learn the reason! It seems the aircraft with those stubby wings had all the glide characteristics of a lead shotput so the pilots took no chances of going down with the ship! That's for the navy!

[@bjornsmith9431]

Pilots these days are lucky to be flight simulator trainers, in the old days in 1940-90s, you learn by on the job training, training is important to understand your weapon systems, I heard even the North Vietnamese Army Air force was suffering lose with the MIG 21 during the Vietnam war too.

[@showtime112]

Trial and error. Not the best way to learn how to fly jets.

[@nilskellre3575]

How can you locate with the camera?

[@showtime112]

Not sure what you mean exactly. Perhaps you want to know about the free camera padlock? Free camera is L SHIFT + F11. You position the camera with W S A D keys, rotate towards the aircraft you want to follow (turn labels on with L SHIFT + F10 to find it more easily) an then press Del on your numerical keyboard.

[@nilskellre3575]

@@showtime112 Thank you. And how can you fly to F104g's?

[@coleparker]

One of the best kept secrets about the plane, was that took on the Starship USS Enterprise. 😉

[@showtime112]

Yes, I remember that even Mr Spock was worried for a while 😁

[@valley6636]

I remember reading the moment Dan Hampton engaged the F-104, was pretty tense reading until it was revealed it was a crazy Turkish pilot 😅

[@showtime112]

He knows how to make things interesting and intense, that's for sure!

[@Joe3pops]

I was in the army reserve 1980 and sent to base Lahr as an augmentee for NATO Reforger Exercise. For four months and two weeks we were barracked about 400 yards from the 104 engine test cell. They ran that test cell 24/7/365. I don't know how we slept. All of us constantly in a state sleep deprivation. Must be like trying to sleep at Cape Canaveral 1970s. The only recourse was in the field bouncing around in our M113 carrier. Fun yet also stupid times.

[@showtime112]

The sound of J79 might be cool but only in limited quantities 😁 Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@Gearparadummies]

The Spanish Air Force flew the F104G from 1965 to 1972 for a total of 12.000 flight hours without a hitch. Maybe the German pilots were not as good as they believed themselves to be.

[@showtime112]

I don't think Spanish Air Force flew any low level strike missions. Plus, the weather in Spain is much better than in Germany.

[@Gearparadummies]

@@showtime112 Not in combat, but in training they certainly did...Just like the Luftwaffe.

[@theplum2706]

The luftwaffe operated the F-104 as a ground pounder. This is a political decision, german pilots were forced to fly the F-104 for a role that wasn't supposed to do

[@Gearparadummies]

@@theplum2706 Just like Hitler with the M262? Old habits never die.

[@mharcsa]

Mrak video! :)

[@showtime112]

Hvala, drago mi je da ti se sviđa!

[@msgfrmdaactionman3000]

Great video, thank you! These jets were in a really bad 1964 film called, The Starfighters. Its so bad its an MST3K episode. Starring a future congressman, "B-1" Bob Dornan.

[@showtime112]

Thanks! I came across this film and told myself I had to find time to watch it 😁

[@alexandermathar7780]

Well done . You mention the Moluccan crisis in the Netherlands in 1977. By the way you got it wrong. Indonesia wrongfully annected the Moluccas and the western part of New Guinea.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for contributing. I didn't really research that part too much as it didn't seem crucial to the story of F-104.

[@MiloMALONE3435]

Great editing…..

[@showtime112]

Thanks for the positive feedback!

[@victorsforza5578]

The German AF and MARINEFLEIGER both flew the F-104 STAR FIGHTER. the MARINEFLEIGER retired all of it's tornadoes btw too .

[@JT-gq8wv]

USAF needs long range Interdictor, Attack Weapon Platforms and Fighters. Wasn't any need for a short-Range Interceptor over US Territory. But over Europe? Yes !

[@johnfleming7879]

When I was in Germany- 74-77, I would often be driving on a road in the mountains and look out my window and see a West German 104 flying at the same level (which was not allowed to the US Air Farce \

[@showtime112]

I went there in '86. Didn't see any Starfighters but I saw a Tornado. Not sure whose it was.

[@azmike3572]

Also flown by the commando unit "Blackhawk" in the 1950s and 60s comic books.

[@showtime112]

I seem to remembered some comics wirh F-104s. I think I borrowed them from another kid. There was some height record braking attempt, don't know if that's from this series.

[@Tiertzland]

Sir, do you want to try made a video about flying Taiwan rf-101 Voodoo escape from China's j-6 fighters and anti-aircraft gun? It would be a good challenge for you.

[@showtime112]

That could be interesting but we don't have the F-101. Maybe, if someone develops it someday. Can you recommend any good sources?

[@pietrocalcioli8169]

Bellissimo

[@showtime112]

Grazie!

[@sohrabroozbahani4700]

The last one was interesting research statistics 🤔

[@showtime112]

Yes, things are often not what they seem at first.

[@craigsawyer6453]

The 104, like any thoroughbred, is amazing in skilled hands and dangerous to those that don't full understand. My father worked on the powerplants for these magnificent planes. I was personal friends with the US Airforce Coronel that wrote the requirements that led to the F104. He said that when Kelly Johnson took him in to the see the plane for the first time he thought it was the most beautiful aircraft he had ever seen.

[@showtime112]

Thanks for sharing this! I think few people can disagree with what you wrote.

[@thecaptain2000]

The F104 was purchased in bug numbers, at the same time as the Germans, by the Italians who had it in service till it was replaced by some f16 and then by the Eurofigther.

[@showtime112]

Yes, Italy was the final user.

[@javaidzaidi]

The Ace of Aces, Eric Hartmann, had joined the West German Luftwaffe in 1955 after his release from Soviet captivity as a POW. In 1960 he was sent to America to evaluate the F 104. He reported it was an unstable aircraft and would be problematic. He wanted other aircraft's be considered. His objections were overlooked. The result was a high number of F 104 crashes, and and a number of pilot deaths. Notice, you will not find F 104 being operated by any air force nowadays. But three contemporaries, the Soviet MiG 21, the French Mirage and the Swedish Draken, are still in service with some air forces.

[@Tigershark_3082]

The Draken has been entirely retired. Only 1 or 2 countries use the Mig-21 (those being heavily upgraded variants)

[@showtime112]

Actually, at least 15 countries still use MiG-21. Not including the Chinese variant.

[@theplum2706]

Italy was the last nation to retire the F-104 in 2006

[@randomvideosnathan2178]

The sound of them 😩

[@johngray8606]

I remember reading somewhere that the planes going to Germany were a bit different from the original design. This was Germany's request, and obviously altered the planes performance, thereby accidents happened. Anyone know about this and can maybe clarify??. I'd like to know if this is misinformation.

[@showtime112]

The special G model was developed for Germany but it wasn't the reason for the losses. It was mostly inadequate training, introduction dangerous of low - level strike role, bad weather and poor ground handling of the aircraft.

[@grizwoldphantasia5005]

Thanks for the loss comparisons.

[@showtime112]

It's sometimes hard to go against what is regularly believed but the F-104s reputation not entirely deserving. Other period airplanes were pretty bad too.

[@SUP_Bigans]

Also F 104 involved in Ustica Air Battle 27/06/1980 when the civilian DC 9 Itavia flight 870 was down in Tirrenian sea, killing 81 lifes and a libian mig 23 flown by sirian pilot crash in Sila mountain.

[@showtime112]

Great info for a video called 'Five More Things You Didn't Know About F-104' 😁

[@34500dauphin]

Italian F104S?

[@SUP_Bigans]

@@34500dauphin That night at least 2 f 104 (an S and one T) were in flight close to the doc shot down. The 2 pilots of the T pushed the general aerial warning switch as ordered by NATO procedure, then they returned to Grosseto airfield.

[@34500dauphin]

@@SUP_Bigans Many months ago i've seen on French TV that one of the 3 pilots was killed in 1998 Ramstein frecce tricolori show!!!!!!!

[@SUP_Bigans]

@@34500dauphin not One, the two pilots flying the 104 T at Ustica died in Ramstein! Few days before the crash they were called by the judge to talk about the case. Naldini was flying the 5 planes formation, while Nutarelli was the free plane and they crashed for a so called "human error". A mistery in a mistery...after 42 years we don't know who shot down the dc9.