Five Tips for Reading the Iliad

[@y2kshooter]

i'm not even a student for this school and this helped a lot just as an enthusiast

[@soekekkeke990]

Your not an enthusiast

[@y2kshooter]

@@soekekkeke990 your mom

[@iknowcpr]

@@y2kshooter This is high quality commentary I expect from KZbin

[@abcdefghijklmnnopqrstuvwxy2312]

@@soekekkeke990 your mom indeed

[@mushroomcrepes4780]

Your not your mom

[@Makaneek5060]

"The goal isn't to read books fast, the goal is to read books" as a purchaser of Burton's 16-volume Arabian Nights translation, I'd have to agree.

[@constantin5509]

Jealous, I wish I had that collection, even if I never get to read all of it.

[@MrBanana2000]

Who the heck is Burton?

[@Makaneek5060]

@@MrBanana2000 Richard F. Burton, pretty wild guy en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Francis_Burton

[@MM-KunstUndWahrheit]

I am at awe of the immensity of that, like 16 volumes? I am a native arabian, and the arabic editions do not exceed the eigth volume mark, and usually the books are condensed within four book volumes boundary, probably because in the arabic form it is written with small letters, yet so comfortable to read, and with biblical page form two sides per page...

[@Makaneek5060]

@@MM-KunstUndWahrheit Yes mine has very big letters indeed.

[@fredjones554]

My tip. Listen to the book. It was intended as a performance to an audience.

[@charbird20]

My personal tip is to annotate as you go. Find small bit of comedy sprinkled in the misery of war. Diomedes trading his shitty armor for expensive armor while the recipient is none the wiser comes to mind. But if you can’t find much comedy from Homer’s words, annotate comedy yourself! As the story goes, find a favorite character. They may live, they may die, but either way they’ll give you a checkpoint of enjoyment as you go through it. Keep in mind I am not a professional, nor am I a classicist. I’m just someone who really enjoys these stories. Happy reading! ❤

[@MrMrEsquire]

5 tips to read the Iliad....that spell out ILIAD: * Imagine you believe this book * Embrace the story as home tells it * Don’t put yourself over the book, stand under the book; open your imaginative faculties to take in what home is teaching you * Listen to its music * Read out loud * Don't listen to other music while reading, the Iliad’s epic poetry has its own beat and cadence * Minde heart, ears, body, aligned with homers narrative * Not a novel, more like song lyrics * Invest in some favorite scenes * If something stands out, re-read that scene. privilege the things you like * Or just re read the whole book a few times, nbd * Memorize a favorite scene or section or line * Annotate * Action summary per page: on each page write in margin brief summary of what happens * Speeches and which characters are speaking: word saloon, brakes, etc some way of identifying who is speaking each section * Similes: narrator uses many epic similes, 180 epic similes. Points where you get little vignettes looking into life that the people of the story experienced. “As…so” in Lattimore’s translation * Don’t dwell on distracting details * Goal is to read the book not merely to skim it. Some things deserve more depth than others, you’ll need to figure that out as you read * Eg book 2’s list of ships and occupants might not deserve a lot of attention

[@dellh86]

so you're the type to overannotate book 2 huh lol

[@Liliesnlilac-cc8hk]

helpp😭@@dellh86

[@Liliesnlilac-cc8hk]

that was helpful tho, thank u so much brv

[@DNchap1417]

Another tip should add: 6-) DON'T watch Troy until you read the Iliad first. It's basically a heavily synthethised version of the Iliad with various liberties here and there (I.e Sean Bean LIVES!)

[@RedDuke42]

I would like to emphasize the 'read out loud' part. The Iliad is full of BEAUTIFUL words and sentences. Really imagine you're an epic poet, and recite it out loud once in a while. It's powerful. "Elphenor Calcanthida, magnanimous King of the Abantes."

[@happycats685]

you reading it in greek? thats a big task.

[@AgustinBlumhagen]

I have read the whole iliad and oddisey out loud. Take more time. But you alsso enjoy it more. PD: sorry for my syntax, not a native english speaker

[@Dino_Medici]

Legendary book collection

[@cacadores3955]

I'm curious what subject your students are studying. It's also a good tip to mark the mortal characters when they appear during the fight scenes, with an "A" or a "T" depending on whether they're Archaian or Trojan. Makes following the fight and the consequent emotions of the protagonists much easier. I would also take separate running notes as you read on ten or so of the main charachters you haven't heard of before perhaps, such as mortals who speak up at the battle conferences like Diomedes (A - mortal) or the gods that intervene in the fighting like Ares (T - god of war). Especially the confusing ones whose names all start with "A".

[@crownedoll]

My teacher mentioned this exact tip!

[@High_Priest_Jonko]

If you don't understand what's going on, don't think about it too hard. Just keep on going.

[@SimpleHealth83]

These are good tips! Just watched this after reading the Iliad for the 2nd time. 1st time was 20 or so years ago in college for an introduction to Greece course. This time I got to really enjoy reading the book at my own pace and actually did some of your tips intuitively (I did a paragraph Summary for each book) and got a lot more out of it this time with the rereading. Made me want to go back to college 😅!

[@flipgsp]

The thing that helped me finally read the Illiad was reading the beautifully illustrated graphic novel by Gareth Hinds along with the real book. I would read the graphic novel chapter which was shortened but actually not by too much first. Then I would immediately read the regular chapter. And it made reading the prose so much easier. I didn't feel lost, because I could literally remember the images from the graphic novel which helped me know what was going on better. It was shocking how fast I got through it. Not because I was rushing, but just because it didn't feel painful at all. I also put some Game of Thrones music by Ramin Djawadi (Winterfell Snowfall at Dusk) in the background while I read both. Helped my brain a lot too to not get bored and to focus more.

[@calisongbird]

Thanks for that tip!

[@samwisegrangee]

The word bubble idea is interesting and practical. Very good for a Homer student. In my 30s, I’m now revisiting the Iliad in full-only read parts in high school humanities.

[@serbenton]

This was great! I recently read the Fagles translation and loved it. Reading for pleasure doesn't necessarily preclude your suggestions.

[@nbenefiel]

I still prefer Lattamore’s translation. He makes it sing, as does the Ancient Greek.

[@girth_goblin]

The wall of books is glorious

[@JamesAdams-ev6fc]

This is excellent advice. The Iliad is one of those books that is best heard aloud. While it is a slow process, listening to at least part of it on a good audiobook pays dividends.

[@rexromana]

Much appreciated, book has been sitting in my home library for years and I want to finally tackle it.

[@ShingenNolaan]

Immersion is the key here. Open mind and you'll drown into the past.

[@happycats685]

yes i agree

[@goblinslayer7096]

My favorite way to read Iliad is by having "Peter Presents" read it to me on youtube with his commentary.

[@Rose_Courtz]

Omg thank you this is exactly what I’ve been looking for!

[@enzocypriani5055]

Thank you so much! Can't wait to embark on the Iliad in 2024

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

I read the Iliad some years ago and am now listening to a recorded version, I think it’s closer to the original experience of having a poet recite it, while around a fire long ago. I didn’t enjoy the Odyssey as much, it has too many fantastical tales in it, I knew that already, but it’s equally culturally important. These two epics are some of the most enduring works in history, worthwhile reading if, at times, a little difficult.

[@DATo_DATonian]

The whole point of The Odyssey are the "fantastical tales".

[@calebchan5704]

Thank you so much for this resource, professor!

[@kellydearaujocarvalhosoare16]

Thanks for these increduble tips!!

[@paulmayo2948]

That's great advice. I've found it hard going but a good story. Had to work hard to get to follow who's who and the general direction of the story and I'm not far in! Gonna start again and do it your way. Thanks

[@patoliterato]

Great tips for a wonderful book. I loved to read it last year ❤

[@interrospire]

If my room doesnt look like yours, filled to the brim with books, by the time im 30: I'm a failure or I need to find a rich husband.

[@koboldgeorge2140]

How's the second one coming along so far?

[@irishh3441]

This is so helpful! Thank you so much ❤

[@EyeLean5280]

I love early- and mid- twentieth century translations.

[@remythemanniquin]

it's kind of funny, I'm reading through the Iliad because of a personal fascination with Greek mythology but I do think these tips will help me enjoy it more.

[@Valeciols]

Thanks for the tips! I currently have The Illiad beside me 😼🥰😹 I'm kinda nervous 😅it seems like a hard read! But ty for the tips man 😎

[@deanryanmartin]

These are helpful tips. I have already read the children's version of The Iliad twice, but I am not satisfied. I still want to read the best English translation for adults.

[@yann4601]

Excellents conseils, merci!

[@Patriles]

Alors ? avez vous lu le livre ?

[@yann4601]

@@Patriles J’avais lu l’Iliade en français. Je le reattaque en grec. Encore au chant I. Ça va plus lentement … Vous?

[@Patriles]

@@yann4601 j'ai une copie anglaise du livre alors je vais m'y mettre ^^ Wow en Grec !!! Courage !

[@yann4601]

@@Patriles bonne lecture!

[@willieknows2708]

Believe. Gratitude 🤲 Your Way.

[@jamieshows1564]

I'm having a very hard time following the meter and cadence of the work. When I took a class that covered Homer and Virgil in college years ago, it was made much easier for me to follow along, but without the assistance of a professor, I can't seem to find that flow alone. I'm reading Fagles' translation.

[@deirdre108]

Did the Trojan War have anything to do with the Greeks attacking because Troy controlled the Dardanelles (Hellespont) and charged Greeks large tolls for crossing?

[@alessandrorossi1294]

What the speaker doesn’t realize is that even us non-Torrey Honors Students can see this video! He literally just gave out this knowledge for free! LOL

[@bobmcgahey1280]

read it in greek I did a translation disloves the original as David Ferry observed for example line one menin means anger but it is different from say xolos which also means anger menin is a divine anger -- never comes through in transation

[@AndyElisha]

Yeah, what even is the ship accounting list

[@sao9995]

One more tip-avoid Emily Wilson's translation like the plague. Richmond Lattimore might be a better choice if you are reading for school. On a first pass, if you are reading for pleasure, Robert Fagel is a better choice.

[@utkarshdubey5830]

Why?

[@sao9995]

@@utkarshdubey5830@utkarshdubey5830 I speak Greek, so I understand Homer's intent and voice. You might prefer a translation that captures his soul rather than some attempt to re-invent him for some modernist women's cause celeb. Emily Wilson made a name for herself by throwing Homer's work under her bus. I accidentally purchased her book. To be fair, I read it cover to cover. I was appalled at the liberties she took under the guise of translation. If you want Homer, read Fagel.

[@CameronTaylor-yo7ut]

Ty

[@lindaabraham8715]

Since the Iliad begins with the assumption that kidnapped women are considered approved war prizes to rape and fight over, it is very difficult for me to find value in it.

[@babbisp1]

1:50 Dr Sanders, which annotated translation/edition is best for Iliad and for Odyssey? [Preferably paperback]

[@fernanda_animates]

Do all translations of the Illiad use the Roman names for the gods? Or is there a version/translation that uses the Greek names? Thanks!

[@norbert9598]

we've been reading it for our classical literature course from the translation of E. V. Rieu published by Penguin Classics in 1953 and the Greek names are used in this version

[@cacadores3955]

Hammond's is the current Penguin translation using Greek names that match the names used by Robert Graves's The Greek Myths. Comes with a big index and book notes.

[@robertgerrity878]

All modern translations are from the GREEK. Greek names are used. Only Chapman (1597-1618) does the Roman names; as a poet, Tennyson follows him.

[@DATo_DATonian]

I absolutely HATE it when they use Roman names. It's like some modern day writer trying to write Sherlock Holmes stories. It is anathema to me.

[@billthomas7644]

I have only read the Samuel Butler translation. Any others recommended?

[@appujosephjose6129]

I am reading it in prose

[@shredwarfare5446]

Your first comments also very much apply to reading the Bible

[@YOYLEBEANS]

Me whos reading the iliad and reads it for fun: hi 😀

[@uhmmmchileanywaysso]

haha me too, i’ll be reading it soon how was it

[@mattinnj979]

I remember reading it in intro to Xenophon that “Every schoolboy knows the tale of 10,000”. Now, no kids do. Ahhg, progressive

[@sterlist]

isn't the Lattimore translation obsolete now? Almost all the universities I know switched to Fagles years ago.

[@FredFredSanders]

Fagles is more beautiful, and in my opinion a better literary reading experience. But when I've used it for student discussion, I've found that it leads them astray by leaving out some details and (worse) introducing some ideas and imagery that don't represent the Greek well. Students take a stand on a key word that isn't really there (and then they feel betrayed or deflated if the prof has to point that out). scriptoriumdaily.com/iliad-why-the-lattimore-translation/

[@robertgerrity878]

​@@FredFredSanders Now discourse on Wilson and Mitchell, please. Consider assigning section C&C from among the several translation. The Flash 123, by the by.

[@lordofthemound3890]

@@FredFredSanders How do you rate Fitzgerald’s translation?

[@jesus.christis.lord.foreve899]

♡

[@Big-guy1981]

Do'h!

[@nbenefiel]

My first tip would be, read it in Attic Greek.

[@DATo_DATonian]

I think Shelly learned Greek just so he could read Homer in its native language, but I'm pretty sure he drowned himself before the Myrmidons disembarked from their ship ..... a coincidence? .... I think not.

[@iqbellkroos6788]

its hard for me because the old english and the terms. can u give me advice

[@DATo_DATonian]

Well, first off, put down _The Canterbury Tales_ and pick up _The Iliad_ .

[@FaisalSalahuddindenver]

I am curious why Lattimore over Pope for your class?

[@FredFredSanders]

scriptoriumdaily.com/iliad-why-the-lattimore-translation/

[@FaisalSalahuddindenver]

@@FredFredSanders thanks I’ll check it out. I am the founder of the Homer Society of Colorado so I’m grateful for you sharing this.

[@FaisalSalahuddindenver]

@@FredFredSanders I read your rationale for Lattimore rather quickly and I might have missed it but did it even mention Pope? Pope gets Homer better than anyone else, IMO and his verse is as sublime as Homers. I’m excited to consider your rationale for choosing Lattimore over Pope further and thank you.

[@FaisalSalahuddindenver]

@@FredFredSanders This explanation doesn't contend with Pope at all. That's a miss IMO, though I'm delighted we share a passion for Homer's EPIC work. :)

[@FaisalSalahuddindenver]

@@FredFredSanders I got into Lattimore. I understand why more people are not in love with Homer if Latimore is the translation they are reading. It’s written poorly and contains very little of the magic from Homer. I would not put it in the top three translations. Rouse contains the magic while conveying the story. Pope however conveys the magic and the story with the romance of verse.

[@stevehunter252]

Does anyone know how many children King Priam sired??

[@whitepanties2751]

Lots: he had a wife but was not expected to be faithful to her, and a King with power, wealth and slaves had many opportunities.

[@babbisp1]

Nts 0:27

[@itsmeyoufool37]

Finally someone talking sense. Everywhere I look is filled with speeded up feminist attitudes. Thank you for attempting context and

[@asharmstrong6730]

illy-add, not illyerd!

[@jeffreykalb9752]

#1 Learn Greek.

[@richarddelanet]

Poor little blighters. Having to read a book for university. Ohhh

[@jeyhey5320]

How can one be so delusional to think he can expect young adults to meaningfully read the Iliad in full as preparation ? Only a school teacher.

[@jesus.christis.lord.foreve899]

Why. I have no idea why anyone would read this stuff ?

[@uhmmmchileanywaysso]

for fun or to be like informed, he also said that many students need to read this book before going into university, and books like this provides more insight to this topic and broadens your vocabulary etc

[@JCSuperstar777]

No point without Greek.

[@embearasedbear3694]

Very useful video. Also gonna say, you're a real dick for making your students do stuff before the class starts.

[@bunnyistrash8269]

dude thats a very normal expectation 😭

[@embearasedbear3694]

@@bunnyistrash8269 and? That doesn't make it not obnoxious? The breaks are just that, breaks.

[@hoover8699]

@embearasedbear3694 How can you discuss a book unless you first have read it? The students are not children and know what they are getting into when they sign up for the class. Here is a brief description for the “Torrey Honors College” and what it is all about: “students read deeply from some of the best books ever written. They gather with close friends to spend hundreds of hours in discussion, searching out answers to big questions together - all while guided by a faculty mentor. And when they graduate, students enter a community dedicated to lifelong learning and pursuing Christ both personally and vocationally.”

[@embearasedbear3694]

@@hoover8699 the breaks, are just that breaks... try harder. You know what the student might be doing? Trying to read a book they actually want to read. There are few things more tedious and annoying to have to read assigned material on break. Much less Moby Dick one of the duller classics.

[@hoover8699]

@@embearasedbear3694 You may want to actually read the description of the degree they are seeking and the class they signed up for. Again, Here is a brief description for the “Torrey Honors College” and what it is all about: “students read deeply from some of the best books ever written. They gather with close friends to spend hundreds of hours in discussion, searching out answers to big questions together - all while guided by a faculty mentor. And when they graduate, students enter a community dedicated to lifelong learning and pursuing Christ both personally and vocationally.” If you do not want to read a book that is required for a class and/or degree, then don't apply for the degree or sign up for the class.