Fix Sore Knees, Back Pain, Numb Hands!! How To Perform a FULL BIKE FIT At Home! w/Phil Burt!

[@garybird8646]

Experienced bike fitter here... three decades of setting up riders taught me that once the fundamentals are correct, saddle height, reach etc... Your posture on the bike can make a huge difference in efficiency and comfort. Also what are you doing off the bike, strength and flexibility can play a massive role in improving power. Shorter cranks make a difference but as a proportion of your overall inseam length not as much as folk think (unless you've got lordosis). Work on your hip flexors and hamstrings during stretching exercises and see the benefits when closing the hip angle at the top of the pedal stroke. One other tip is to throw away the insoles that came with your shoes and get some that offer more support.

[@markrushton1516]

Cyclists never want to do the work. That £300 pair of shoes or £500 power meter will fix the issues. Not a regime of core work and stretches that costs only time

[@uncleteej8414]

I don’t get the logic of crank length in terms pedal stroke if you can simply adjust the saddle height which is also cheaper to change.

[@TheKmarlow]

Thanks, Gary R. You could haven't said it better myself. Phil Burt, thanks for the helpfull tips. I really need to check my saddle height again and he really made it more clear. Than me having to go back to the cycling shop for another fit, sometimes it's as simple as DIY. Cyclist really do take care for one another... Thanks. Happy Cycling and Happy New Year!!

[@PhiyackYuh]

@@uncleteej8414 longer crank length puts too much pressure on the knees. Sometimes shorter cranks are the solution for the knee pain after setting everything up.

[@UnseenSpirit]

Hi Gary, Ideally I'd get a bike fit but due to costs atm, I'm looking online. I'm an odd bod, with very wide shoulders, short legs and 100kg at 5 foot 8! My wrists always hurt and I can get cramps. I suspect it's because I'm fat and also have a poorly fitted bike. However I'm looking into it hehe. I'd probably be a nightmare for you :p

[@clairer9551]

Oh no! I need 165 cranks and they are sold out everywhere, now more people are going to want them too! Totally agree with the saddle height and handle bar width, solved all my problems. No more shoulder pain since moving to narrower bars and no more saddle pain since increasing my saddle height. I went to see Phil last week and he has helped a lot with my recovery from a broken foot I had last September. I now have the confidence to train as I know what is good pain and what is bad pain. He explained everything so well in an easy to understand way. It was worth every penny.

[@patrickprouty4415]

Thanks Katie for bringing us Phil. He is such a reservoir of knowledge and a true resource. I’m 6’1” and started using 165 cranks in 2020 what a difference. My power increased and more comfort and less fatigue.

[@KatieKookaburra]

He is a blummin' genius! :)

[@EricVuTran]

I'm 6'4" .so kinda close to you. How do you calculate optimal crank length?

[@patrickprouty4415]

Eric it’s about opening up the hip angle between the torso and leg. The two ways I know are having a more up right position on the bike and or shorter crank length. Also bike geometry is a factor along with stem length and angle. My bike has a race geometry so my position is somewhat aggressive. I am comfortable in the aggressive position so I tried the shorter cranks and liked it especially in the drops.

[@solidstream13]

I can see having shorter cranks making it easier to be in a more aggressive position (in the drops) because your leg is not as high at the top of the stroke.

[@traceyockwell3595]

So glad I subscribed to your page , I've recently brought myself a giant defy advance 2 and have been suffering knee pain and thanks to you and Phil I have resolved my knee problems. Many thanks Katie,

[@dom.a.e]

Although bike fits seem expensive, they're so worth it. Mine sorted out all the problems I was having and drastically improved my position on the bike

[@nickpatten5263]

I absolutely loved this video. Very very informative, full of information and well explained. I have now measured and set up my 13 year old Trek, I never had a proper bike fit when I bought it and it feels much better already. I'm 6'5 and 115kgs (at the moment). Thank you.

[@1969Rake]

I've got an older touring bike that I absolutely love! I put it on an indoor trainer this winter and fiddled around with all these sane adjustments over a month. Now the old Miyata fits like a custom made glove!

[@deblordoutdoors5783]

It’s mind blowing how such small changes make so much difference. I’ve been struggling for over a year with genital soreness and have spent a lot of money trying different saddles, to no avail. Even went to the GP to make sure it wasn’t something medical! Then I watched a bike fit video that said a lot of saddle discomfort is down to incorrect reach, so I bought a longer stem (30ml longer) and I can’t believe the difference! I can even ride short distances (up to 10 miles) in jeans now without an issue! Thanks Phil and other professionals for sharing your knowledge. It makes a massive difference for those of us struggling with persistent niggles.

[@davezammit9980]

I have recently discovered mountain biking and absolutely love it. So naturally I was devastated when I developed quite severe knee pain bringing my trail riding to a halt. I did find riding trails with the seat lower feels better and allows you to shift your weight easily but not ideal for straight out riding but never actually connected seat position with knee pain. So now after seeing your video I now at lease I have hope that I can solve this problem. I think a dropper post would be a good investment! Thank you so much for this video !!

[@sepg5084]

Try a dropper post, so that you can lower your seat height while riding.

[@mechpatt]

The still for this video, the position of Phil, title should be "Bike Fitting with Dr. Phil Butt...!" On a more serious note, the guy is a genius and thanks for bringing him to the world's attention.

[@havindy]

I went with 165 mm cranks, moved the seat back and got a shorter stem. Maintained a proper seat to pedal distance. Now my wrists feel better, my knees feel better and climbing is easier. Presumably because I incorporate more of my hamstrings and glutes in my pedal stroke.

[@boromirofmiddleearth557]

amazing how the right fit makes the difference! In clothes, shoes, hats, helmets, and a road bike! Manayunk in Philadelphia PA USA has some great bike shops that care for competitive triathletes and bicyclists.

[@Wildcamp-lifestyle]

Very informative. Comfort is the most overlooked aspect of cycling performance.

[@sAmiZZle82]

One thing worth mentioning, if you are basing your position adjustments on an indoor trainer, is to ensure the bike is perfectly level on the trainer.

[@WakizashiSabre]

I got new cranks 46/30 from 52/38. Originally got 175mm but new cranks were 170 (due supply chain) and honestly, even when 6,5" guy I would even pick 165mm now. Much more comfortable for body.

[@mikeachtziger8898]

Going from 170mm cranks to 165mm made a big difference for me. Would even try some 160mm if they were more available just to see how I like them.

[@syamil.ibrahim]

Interesting, may I know your height?

[@davidhulbert8016]

After wanting to start cycling again after 10 years off my bike i am going for a cycle fit by a pro so I get it spot on🤓, just got a felt 5 with hunt wheels, from my brother who lives in Spain and does some insane hill rides like you lol, your I also quit cycling/youtube video I stumbled upon hit home as well as my brother nagging me!

[@garystephenson7142]

Phil from riding the dales. Good to see you are still at full tilt.

[@felipemolina6370]

This guy is the best. Really like these videos.

[@d-dubb550]

Just getting back into cycling at 48 after a good few years of none whatsoever! Some good tips here for me to look at and put right if necessary. Thank you.

[@rickadams3509]

I'm starting back at 56!

[@briancaine9130]

Same, at 62. First day my hands and wrists were on fire. But after a week of 30 minutes each morning, things much improved.

[@davidburgess741]

What worked for me 40 years ago needed adjustment. Aside from saddle height which still works, stem height and reach did need changing. Unexpectedly clip on Tri bars work very well for me once the stack height was dialed in. At first it didn't seem that I could use them. With a long process of small changes I arrived at a setting that was more comfortable than the drops or tops. Experimenting showed about 1mph gain with about the same effort in more comfort. No more sore hands, and more comfortable saddle as a bonus! Be patient, that allen key is your friend!

[@brianmccarthy5657]

I remember reading "Richard's Bicycle Book" that it's best to tilt the nose of the saddle pointed slightly down. This stops you sitting down in the saddle and stops you slouching and makes you more lined up with the whole bicycle.

[@AlwaysDrawing2012]

This is a fantastic resource into bike fit. Thank you for sharing!!

[@TL243]

Touched on it indirectly with the crank link. But lets talk about stack height for cleats. If you use multiple styles of shoes you will have different stack heights. if you use one for the trainer, one for the road and another for gravel, you better ensure you have good #'s to confirm saddle height.

[@pedallinraw]

Steve Hogg on YT

[@TL243]

@@pedallinraw thanks for the bread crumb. after 4 RAAM’s and several records. Just trying to help folks not build off a bad foundation.

[@billincolumbia]

Francis Cade has some great bike fit videos too, Thanks, Katie!

[@vijayanchomatil8413]

Absolutely Brilliant Video!

[@briansrcadventures1316]

Switching from drop bars to flat bars on my old Touring bike made all the difference for me.

[@grimispotato245]

Oooook yes I am going to take this video and try these fit tips. I get numbness on my right hand but I have not had any problems with my last rides.

[@A.K.Kopperud]

These videos are really helpful. Thanks Katie!

[@alanbenham4139]

A superb video. Thank you so much for providing this essential content.

[@Dazza6840]

Definitely more from more from Phil Burt. James Denver on another channel is knowledgable but grates on me.

[@KatieKookaburra]

More coming :)

[@BUILTLIGHTWOUNDTIGHT]

Seriously had no idea about the crank arm length! I am 6'5" and this is awesome!! Thank you!!! 😎

[@MrChippinator]

My older bike came with 172.5 and my new one is 170. Makes a huge difference, I couldn’t believe the difference in cadence right off the bat.

[@aravec]

Brilliant. Crammed with gems.

[@prajowluck3596]

excellent explanations, love the video. He is a very good commentator.

[@abchaplin]

Thanks for this. I am 1.80 metres tall and have been riding 172.5mm cranks on road and gravel since 1974 (my fixie has 165s to improve clearance when cornering). In recent years, I have noticed a tightness in my hips that really hampers my flexibility: I can no longer sit cross-legged. I think I shall have to see if I can find 165s. In the current commercial environment, however, that's going to be like trying to sled uphill.

[@davethedogdude]

I'm the same height and I switched to 165s on every bike. I haven't had any knee or hip pain since switching, and since I like to spin I appreciate the tighter circle as well.

[@TheFlowZoneX]

Wouldn't addressing the cause be the common sense route to take? Ie. Stretching and working on improving flexibility? Sure adjust the equipment too. But for sure can't hurt to double down on the off the bike stuff as mentioned in the vid

[@sepg5084]

@@TheFlowZoneX yeah, he could maybe try practicing the "asian squat" to increase flexibility. There are many youtube videos on how to get started on it.

[@jaywhitney789]

Absolutely fantastic information 😎🤙🏽🚴🏻‍♀️

[@adunnthing]

Great video…. Everybody needs a Phil.

[@markrushton1516]

Other fitters are available if you are not in the North

[@JamesBrown-qt2yr]

Why do I immediately trust this man implicitly!!? I'd like to heare more about reach, not just handle bar width but stem length and an in depth look into saddle position.

[@KatieKookaburra]

I do too, he’s just so nice and honest. Sometimes brutally honest with me 🤣🙈

[@mattwideman3986]

Great information. He’s a good teacher. Thank you.

[@GrenvilleMelonseedSkiff496]

Ayup Ducky ... my top tip relates to Phil's comment about being in a fixed position for extended periods when on the turbo. Last year, my knees would on occasion get uncomfortable after riding on the road for 30 or 40 minutes straight. I discovered that simply getting off the bike and standing/walking for a few minutes would sort that issue for the remainder of the ride regardless of how long that would be. I'm imagining that tense leg muscles would cause the knee cap to be pulled off centre causing the discomfort. So ... when the same thing happens on the turbo now, I just ride out of the saddle for a minute or so to change my posture and that seems to have the same effect. Now I make a point of riding out of the saddle for short intervals whenever I'm on the turbo ... so far so good. Great video as always ... Hold Fast!

[@MikkoRantalainen]

Good tip about the crank length! Never thought about how it doesn't change the torque as long as you can have enough range in the gearing.

[@naomipalmer4244]

a video on foot stability would be fascinating! Thanks Phil

[@chrislong3394]

Thanks so much for sharing this video.. Measured my inside leg as explained and I was too high in my saddle, only slightly. Used your method and dropped my seat. Switched onto 165 crank during the winter on my summer bike. Took it out for the first time since switching over and I can’t believe the difference. I was quicker and felt so much comfortable. 165 cranks are definitely the way forward for me. Thanks again 👍

[@jason200912]

If your knees are nearly locked out at the lowest point then you should keep the higher setup. Higher means more efficiency and better hill climbing and less hip thigh cramp

[@RobHawthorn]

Phil, can you do a video on DIY bike fit for taller riders...I'm 6' 4" too and interested on your insights

[@SergioCristancho]

what we learn today ... is that we might share or borrow KK's bike no problem at all since we apparently share the basic bike fit measurements, am not sold on crank length I've tried 3 different and am comfortable above 170 right now and is not about power generation issues. hrs in zwift techas you about a thing or two of bike fit and comfortability

[@richcrompton6891]

Phil is a total legend! Mmmmm crank length! 172.5 and 173cm... looks like I need shorter cranks!

[@jonathansadler4911]

Another huge vote for shorter cranks, especially if you live in hilly places.

[@bikesandcats52]

Hi Katie. For the inseam x 0.883 calculation, where are you measuring saddle height in relation to? The centre of the crank? You showed is really well how to measure the inseam but not where to measure on the bike. Thanks

[@grey_fox7]

Yeah, confused about that too!

[@htrease]

"This distance is used to measure from the top of your saddle to the center of your bottom bracket."

[@qpae8503]

I guess usually measured from center of bottom bracket to surface of the saddle but honestly this isn't very accurate. It doesn't take into account crank length, shoe/cleat stack height, cleat position, where you actually sit on the saddle (for/aft), etc. In my experience this method leads to the correct ballpark but still leaves about +-1 cm room for further adjustment ... Which is fairly large amount in this context.

[@johnreese3762]

Very well done! Even a "Slow" person, me, understands!!

[@gavinwood8431]

Thanks so much for this video Kate, I’ve been cycling for a year now and the general set up has always been a mystery to me, so it’s great to finally see a video with some knowledgeable insight. I do think I need to take my Ribble R872 to a specialised bike fitter, to get myself set up 100%. Ride safe

[@KatieKookaburra]

Glad it helped Gavin! Love the R872!! :)

[@roadcyclingmalaysia1691]

i was just looking through videos on bike fittings. thanks!!

[@darrellcarter1163]

Another great vlog Katie ur just having so much fun

[@mcduckuk]

As someone who has skeletal issues, I'd like to see this explored more, I'm sure there are many others in the same boat.

[@deanmcarthur2966]

Have you done a clip on MTB set up... Eg handelbar lenth, I'm guessing the saddle hight remains a consistent & how do I know saddle width is right for me... Magic informative clip Dean

[@franciscodiaz5778]

Phil knowledge is really great!!!

[@thedoginside]

Nice vid, thanks. Good, clear, common sense advice - love it!

[@willadrews]

Great and straight forward video Katie. Would love to have someone address bar width for CX/MTB bars (not drop bars). They are substantially wider than drops, so the "shoulder width" doesnt work. Backsweep, Upsweep, Rise and width all play into preferences, but would be a very useful video! Thx

[@colinpuffett9819]

This is true, but the bar width is a less relevant factor in a MTB situation... Because your upper body is not supposed to be relatively static for hours at a time such as we experience on a road bike. Up and back sweep definitely need to be considered with your morphology taken into account, for wrist comfort more than anything, but primarily for power and control during technical sections

[@sepg5084]

@@colinpuffett9819 it depends on the discipline. Endurance XC riding exist, i doubt that they don't have fitment considerations. Wider handlebars are paired with shorter stems.

[@TheNovaNorm]

Thanks for the tips. I never considered using shorter cranks, lots to think about there. He didn't mention moving the levers higher and handlebar rotation. I see a lot of people with them adjusted poorly. Nice QuadLock mount, definitely the best.

[@chiltleazcatzin]

excellent final words. thank you.

[@Foxtrottangoabc]

Thanks Phil for sharing, brilliant advice 👍😀

[@alextorresphoto]

Thank you Phil! I'm on the other side of the atlantic so these tips will save me thousands of pounds!

[@jayhoughton4174]

Ok, another question on endurance bike fit. We are buying my wife her first road bike, she is in between sizes for one particular bike she likes. The common wisdom appears to be to always go smaller, as it’s “nippier” and “quicker” to handle, (and I suspect because it’s lighter for the weight weenies) however, as it’s her first bike and she is buying it for endurance only, would the larger bike give her more stability and comfort on the longer rides? She is a very active 60 year old, does marathons, not sprints.

[@SichardRamuels]

I don't know the direct answer to your question, but I thought the "go smaller" wisdom was partly based on it being easier to make a slightly-too-small bike "bigger" than vice-versa.

[@stefanhansen5882]

Thanks for this. I'm a newbie, and would like to ask if all this applies to MTB as well. Thanks!

[@ruimendonca1497]

Hello Katie, thanks for this kind of content, in a future video, could you address the position of the saddle, further forward, further back, how to find this position. Another question, which are the most advisable pedaling angles, regarding the hip, knee and ankle. Thanks

[@rossevans7646]

Poss. Stupid question but having measured your inseam is the saddle height measurement then done Fro, the ground to top of saddle, or middle of crank ??

[@oldgit5948]

I posted a similar question today. It's not clear in the video for a pivotal setting around which other adjustments are made. I reckon there's just a small bit of clarity missing to make this much more useful.

[@solidstream13]

I want to try some shorter cranks. However I can see opening a can of worms doing it. Then you have to raise the saddle in turn raise the bars and then your sitting higher on the bike so how does it feel cornering, in the bike or on top of the bike ect. A bit nervous about it however I get lower back pain now so I may give it a try.

[@ucanoe]

Phil, I don't think you showed what to measure on the bike once you have determined the saddle height using Lamond method??? I use 1.09 factor and measure top of pedal to top of seat with pedal in down or extended position...perhaps Lamond method uses the axle to seat?

[@Ricobass0]

I agree completely about the problems due to trainers being fixed. My trainer set up felt totally wrong until I got a rocker plate. It's still not completely realistic, but it is orders of magnitude better. I would highly recommend getting or making one for your trainer setup.

[@jonmathias6159]

I kinda like the idea but they take up SO much room and if, like me, you have to assemble and dismantle your trainer set-up each time you use it, it's just not worth the hassle.

[@Ricobass0]

@@jonmathias6159 Agreed. I'm lucky that I can leave my setup undisturbed in my garage.

[@47Seagull]

Interesting video. My bike fitter in Spain has also long been advocating shorter crank lengths. Would have been good to hear about the for/aft position of the saddle. :)

[@KatieKookaburra]

Another video I feel :)

[@josiahutah3712]

Thanks for the video. I'm curious about handlebar height. Any advice there? How high? I feel my hands are supporting too much weight...like I'm too far leaned over.

[@paulb9769]

Lovely pins.

[@aragaomrcl]

Hi Katie, it is amazing Phil’s Knowledge about bike fit. I have read his book about the theme and it is so broad. I lot to learn. As you mentioned in the video saddle height is crucial, thus how to measure it on the bike is key. I have never found his recommendation about it, should I mesure it from BB to which point of the saddle? Should I use120mm from the back, 80mm width point etc. it would be great to hear from him. Other question, is what should be the start point for the fore-after position? Both have direct impact in the height. Tks in advances and congrats from 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷

[@kevinlyon9501]

All useful stuff from Phil, diva dancing in the outtakes🤣🤣🤣.

[@seektravelride9870]

A great video. I have already made some small adjustments on my own bikes (road and gravel) that have made a difference to the comfort levels.

[@karlnaylor8757]

Brilliant job 😎🍀

[@Handletaken4]

One of the most famous custom builders told me this "if your ear isn't on the line drawn up through your steer tube then the bike will always feel wrong." I have noticed that guys who crash almost always have a bike with a short top tube. I have also never heard a single "fit guru" mention this.

[@tiglen1]

That saddle looks great - what is it? I'd love to hear more about saddle width - especially for women. So many are using te wrong seat bone size. I use specialized saddles as they go to 168. I'm tall (183cm) with a 36inch leg and I'm a big frame, so saddles are hard to fit. I've got every version of the Specialized Oura for all my bikes!

[@liam_c27]

I feel like I owe him money for those tips 😂 top video! Thank you both

[@markrushton1516]

He takes credit cards and prob BACS transfers.

[@chrisschade6854]

Great Video thank you for posting!

[@KatieKookaburra]

Cheers Chris

[@MJarthur95]

I got a free bike fit at the bike shop before buying the bike, didn’t think twice. After riding for 6 months I got a knie issue. Did a professional bikefit, they even gave me the chart. My bike frame is a size too small 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@sirakbeyene5217]

This is fantastic

[@aaronhughes9412]

And my saddle was too low... Thanks for sharing!

[@timbradley1575]

very good info...I have mild back soreness when riding in aero position over 4 hours....I have stock 172 cranks on my 56 cm tri and road bikes...FTP is 318...wonder if shorter cranks would help?...I qualified for Kona and won my age group at the 70.3 Worlds

[@Tntdruid]

Thanks for the great tips!

[@jason200912]

Set your seat even higher than in the video. Got rid of my thigh and hip cramps and allowed me to generate more efficient power climbing hills. At the bottom of the crank my knees were close to locking out but still a tiny bit bent. It was nowhere near the 30 degree angle which is too high

[@shikharmadhok]

Do you have advice on mountain bike fits? Specially with flat handle bars.

[@MrByrneyboy]

Nice bike Katie. Titanium? Would you recommend?

[@paullucas97]

Great video Katie 😊

[@LankyDrummer]

Thanks for making this video as this is just what I needed. I have been struggling with comfort on the bike so I will take some of these tips away and start making some adjustments. I also suffer with numb feet and I have tried loosening my shoes, moving my cleats and position on the bike, but nothing seems to help. Hoping some of these suggestions will help!

[@Karla-Flr]

Thanks for this very informative video 👌🙏

[@eberhardkoch1576]

Thank you very much, very interesting! But I think you should always sit on the saddle the way, that the bones of your pelvis touch the large, back part of the saddle, never on the front part. E koch Germany

[@lenwilkinson8541]

Wonderful and educational. The best part was the flamenco at the end of the video. Turn pro?

[@KatieKookaburra]

hahahaha Len!!

[@karenlouis7808]

Great information, thank you!

[@KatieKookaburra]

Glad it was helpful!

[@BobCycleBrisbane]

Very interesting, and informative.

[@BobCycleBrisbane]

I forwarded this on to a couple of friends, as I have always said they don’t look comfortable. As for me saddle height is spot on. Both with my self bike fit ( heel to pedal) and the 0.883 calculation.

[@zzhughesd]

I’m lucky Katie. Ride 4 times a week 60-150 mins. Don’t get niggles pains at 44. Did get terrible neck pain buying used bike and leaving a saddle down like Concorde and just one 3 hour ride and pain took me to doctors and physio. Looked cool, wrecked me for min 6 weeks. I leave set up exactly as been for last 10 years. Bike fit did 2 years ago too. Curiosity got the cat. Was sat there thereabouts. I have cleats hard fully back. Got this from bike fit Tuesdays CADE.

[@Npdp78]

Yes bring Phil back! Great info ! My problem areas: pain in my neck on long rides, and burning , painful numb toes after 20 miles. I recently changed my pedals and cleats. Any suggestions would be helpful thanks

[@SonnyDarvish]

I went from 170 to 165 to 160 and now I feel it's the right crank length. Downside is I have now 2 crankset sitting at home and have to sell. I hope "industry" catches up with reality that not everyone is over 180cm tall

[@KatieKookaburra]

Height isn’t in correlation to crank length. Yeah I hope so too! We need shorter cranks

[@SonnyDarvish]

yeah not in direct correlation, but there's a limit of longer crank lengths for shorter riders; the knees in belly / chest is not okay

[@charliemackenzie3647]

This is the first time I've heard someone say that most saddles are too low. My saddle is 4 cm too low, I'm moving it up slowly so its not too much of a change in one go. Thanks guys, great advice.

[@jonmathias6159]

I see it all the time, especially with shorter riders. I think they feel uneasy unless they can put both feet on the ground whilst still on the saddle. My wife used to do this. When I persuaded her to raise her saddle 5cm, she couldn't believe what a difference it made.

[@robinclaidlaw]

@@jonmathias6159 Yup, it's a common one, I sometimes ask people why they feel that they need to be able to get their feet flat on the ground since you don't ride your bike with your feet on the ground...

[@tomgruitt6563]

Well this person seems like a genius!

[@KatieKookaburra]

He really is! :)

[@JantRide]

thanks from Indonesia Katie....