Fixing a Ray Charles Hone job.....😎

[@Z-Bart]

"Ray Charles at Stevie Wonder's speed shop". 😎😎🤣🤣

[@rcf8367]

LMAO

[@powellmachineinc]

I couldn't help myself

[@rickchowsr2532]

@@powellmachineincI never saw that coming Well neither did they 😂😂😂

[@Hjfvvdst]

I can see that!

[@kellismith4329]

Hilarious

[@mitchm275]

nice to see you not only being informative, educational, but enjoying yourself.i i love a good sense of humor, and bantering razzing around the shop. your momentary lack of containment, says you like your job and your not all totally stressed out. just more proof your as down to earth as i keep saying.

[@powellmachineinc]

Glad you enjoy it!, we really appreciate everyone on here!!

[@n2omike]

@@powellmachineinc The top of the cylinder is the most important, as that's where the rings are holding the most pressure. Would much rather the cylinder be round and a couple tenths big than tapered. Ring has a much harder time trying to follow a tapered cylinder.

[@wendellrountree4899]

Love your channel man my first job out of high school was a machine shop. I was very fortunate to have some Ole timers in there that took me under there wing and taught me the right way.

[@ansondesimone5928]

Wow ! That was some real cool work . I can you he must have spent a lot of time on Rays block to get all those cylinders as straight as he did . The hone it dial it hone it dial it must have gone on for him for hours . Had Rays block been run like that it would have blown apart for sure . Hats off to you man you fixed it .

[@powellmachineinc]

Tyvm!! We try hard

[@mrbmp09]

ansondesimone5928 Did Ray type this?

[@treyrags]

Catching up on older videos. Good stuff. The most common mess up I've seen is just this. Big on top, small on bottom.

[@powellmachineinc]

@@treyrags exactly 💯

[@jim8027]

Oh man the into was hilarious! Had to pause awhile to quit laughing, so I wouldn't miss anything. Excellent video.

[@powellmachineinc]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@TimothyArnott-m7z]

Hey Daniel, Tim here, i wish profilometers were everywhere back in the day, but even an old school hone job, done PROPERLY wud work fine... my evidence: my very first motor, (Poncho 400) was bored, one sleeve, honed for TRW Pistons, still runs today in a '69 Bird.....but the machine work was done by the BEST Pontiac machinist on the east coast (Nunzi)......you cudnt even tell there was a sleeve installed, my point: He had no profilometer in '83, he had expertise/knowledge.....the profilimeter gets us machinist nerds to an even HIGHER level!!......lets hope Ray and Stevie DONT try to machine anything soon!!!!.....HAHAHA.....LOVED the vid my brother!!....PEACE to you sir!!

[@powellmachineinc]

Tyvm!!

[@retjarhead]

Good info, I always took in the block and pistons and just trusted what they did, may explain some of the failures I had, just took it for granted the machine shop knew what they were doing, fml, lol...!!!!!

[@riv187]

That's the funniest opening to any of your videos!

[@mchristr]

Maybe Ray couldn't use a Sunnen but he could sing and play the piano. Appreciate that your shop is clean as most machine shops are a wreck. Keep the great content coming.

[@powellmachineinc]

Ty!!

[@ericstalker7973]

I understand exactly what you are talking about. My father was an engin builder transmission rebuilder and what not. He owned his own shop for 50 plus years. He always tought me that we will never bore a block until he has the new pistons for exact measurements.

[@powellmachineinc]

Definitely

[@Stan_in_Shelton_WA]

Everything in life is a process. Mechanical stuff even more so. The sharing of information these days is awesome, thanks!

[@powellmachineinc]

Thanks for watching!

[@morgansword]

Until someone actually works in a machine shop, they just don't realize the things involved in setting up a bore or how its measured out to get the correct size. I was working with men who did this for a living, they took me in a place to just watch how they got it the right way. This was over thirty years ago... sadly even those ways are antiquated as your new tools make you aware of how it is an how it should be. Technology has grown faster than most folks realize. Good or bad, "It is what it is" and how we all learn those important things.

[@powellmachineinc]

Definitely

[@uxbridgelibraryfriends8635]

Excellent technical information in discussing the stone grit vs surface finish. Looking forward to an update video with the different stones. Keep up the great work!

[@powellmachineinc]

Ty!!, we appreciate you!

[@joespratt413]

Excellent! I see a lot of videos of guys using the profilometer and spew readings like I’m supposed to know what they all mean. Your explanations of Rpk and Rvk were very helpful. I’d love to know what all the rest of the readings actually mean in practice. Good stuff 🤓

[@powellmachineinc]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@RobertMoore-l5x]

very informative , being a machinist myself , its great to see a channel like this.

[@powellmachineinc]

Absolutely! Ty!!

[@douglash3129]

That was funny, but you trying to keep a straight face was a howl! Now that was a good line but I'm sure you will hear about it!🤣🤣🤣🤣😎😎

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol, definitely

[@deancrawford2577]

😂, had a similar thing happen, got a block in that another company did, not only did it have almost a thousands taper, smaller at the bottom, but also chatter marks at the bottom...... Had to dwell it at the bottom, but got it right.... Another great video!

[@mikediamond1522]

Wrap a sheet of 500 paper around the stones. Works good! Always use the best stones and abraisives. Norton (St. Gobain), etc. Mike

[@theodoreshasta7846]

I love your sense of humor and your laugh. Good to see each one!

[@powellmachineinc]

Ty!!

[@mhorsermk]

Thank you for the great vids … your FT lifter vids are some of the best info on the topic I’ve watched . Depending on the cylinder material … and hardness of course … an old GM block, Darton sleeves, a new aftermarket block My current program on Dart SHP builds … measuring at 225 Brinell … 170 diamond first cut to exact size with lighter load, should give about 500 Rz. Plateau with 600 CBN light load, (CBN sharper than diamond) to an Rpk of 7-9 µin … and then burnish with brush or blocks to knock off the ‘fuzz’ Done.

[@powellmachineinc]

Yep, that's what others are telling me

[@molivroman9806]

A full Stevie Wonder deal. You gotta love this guy.

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol

[@GrandPitoVic]

RAY CHARLES AT STEVE WOUNDERS!!!!!!! IM GOING TO HAVE TO START WEARING DEPENDS TO WATCH YOUR CHANNEL!!!!! That was a good one brother.

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol,

[@johnroche4110]

Ha ha ha !! Love it. Thanks for the laughs & education. The best. 💪

[@powellmachineinc]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@JOMaMa..]

Smart man maximizing your craftsmanship 👍

[@powellmachineinc]

I try

[@indianracers3644]

I really enjoyed this video. Great to see small machine shops being a le to dig into the details of a cylinder surface finish. 20 years ago i worked for a Marine OEM and we were working through a ring/piston scuff issue. Being an OEM we had to run diamo d hone stones and if the stones were worn or dull they would smear the metal instead of cutting cleanly. i belive the metric was % of "torn and folded metal". There may be better metris/ controls now. I just mention it as somthing to keep in mind, better to be a little aggressive with the plateau and not have a smeared finish.

[@raypruitt9955]

I love seeing the sunnen ck10 again I ran one back in the 80’s along with sunnen line hone

[@powellmachineinc]

Good stuff

[@raypruitt9955]

I don’t do machine shop anymore I miss it I did work at 2 different shops the 2nd one was for a guy that raced at Daytona when they raced on the beach his name was LB Micheal’s

[@justinkorpela7955]

Awesome video and love the comical relief lol😅

[@powellmachineinc]

Thank you 😁

[@justinkorpela7955]

@@powellmachineinc your very welcome

[@bigears4014]

Some old cars pistons were graded by colour for size , and were quite different. Some older cars even had different bores

[@dennisyoung4631]

That dial bore gauge looks a lot like mine - except mine does smaller holes, 0.8 to 1.5 inches. I bought it for doing “model engines” having bores in that range…

[@Dynodon64]

Lake Speed Jr. from Total Seal Rings, uses 170-180 for finished size and 600 for plateau, diamond hones. So you are right on track.

[@powellmachineinc]

Good deal

[@davidholcomb9961]

Funny and interesting; nice job saving a botched hone job without going too big up towards the top of the bores.

[@powellmachineinc]

Ty!!

[@douglash3129]

Hi Daniel, interesting video, we are all learning and progress for you! I under stand you can use that profilometer for gasket surfaces also! Got to love those tools!! Great job Daniel!👍👍👍

[@powellmachineinc]

Ty, glad you enjoy

[@GVBiggs524]

I liked the analogy and the joke!

[@powellmachineinc]

💯

[@alanmize5627]

I love to learn and I am still learning thank you.

[@powellmachineinc]

💯

[@bruce1816]

Dan, we used to start race engines on the dyno with petroleum based oil. After break in, we would switch it over to synthetic, mostly due to cylinder finish. We worried about ring seal. As technology progressed, we started getting better at the cylinder finish, and then we could first start them with synthetic. Besides the fact of getting way better cylinder pressures.

[@powellmachineinc]

Definitely

[@diggy-d8w]

And the Jeff Healey Band played his guitar while they diligently worked. The blind leading the blind is so inspirational, yeah...

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol

[@skeetamacgyver1821]

Thanks for the terrific video! Informative and amusing! Awesome.

[@powellmachineinc]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@RANDOMNATION907]

Very informative . . . but I do have a question. What is the gauge line and where on the piston is it located? *_Andrew_* . . great video and editing work. It makes it all so much easier to understand.

[@powellmachineinc]

The gauge line is specified by the piston manufacturers, normally its a given dimension below the wristspin on the skirt

[@jimamizzi1]

What a classic line, I haven’t laughed so hard in a while

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol

[@jeffnevius]

I'm glad you didn't ever see any of mine when I got started. Self thought it's taken a lot on the learning level. My machines are manual stroke so it's all in me and timing

[@powellmachineinc]

I had a manual stroke for 20 year's

[@johnezell9808]

Great opening.

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol, ty

[@chauvinemmons]

When a factory block is honed they use one head with literally three sets of stones three cones the heads complete were around $15000.00 each the machines have 48 spindles a diamond ream for both crank and cam same for balance shaft if present the reamers are used like a regular reamer the honing process is done with diamond not aluminum oxide or silicon carbide there is one manufacturer that only uses silicon carbide on a perfect bore less then 3 micron from a perfectly round bore just to get a crosshatch. The direction they were going was a mirror finish with an engineered laser pattern oil retention folowed by a mirror toping to knock down stubble left by laser you can not see the pattern after topping there is no grit number to make a comparison totaly different process all done in under a minute. It would require a different ring costing an Additional Dollar, thats right One dollar nixed it, but it was the only way to meet oil consumption requirements. So goes another 3-5 million engines over the life of a program one dollar is that big of a deal. Who uses the silicon carbide stone Sorry that is confidential and must remain that way If you have the right equipment to measure cylinder roundness it is obvious.

[@tried2call260]

I just love this guy !

[@powellmachineinc]

Ty! We appreciate you

[@robinfulton9057]

You busted me up on your intro😂😂😂

[@powellmachineinc]

As did I myself...

[@19815389]

Daniel I haven’t laughed that hard in a long time

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol, me to

[@FishinFool70]

Great info on your honing procedure. What's your thoughts on brush hone for plateau finish?

[@powellmachineinc]

I think a brush is a good idea, I need to add it to my system.

[@truthboomertruthbomber5125]

It would be interesting to check the ring gap at several heights in the tapered bores.

[@The340king]

Some machinists are using a bristle set of stones to get the finish you want. Lake Speed has been proposing using the roughest stone/diamond to start with and the smoothest finish stone/diamond/bristle you can find. Obviously, different block manufacturers will require a different approach. The end deal is more oil captive in the cylinder wall decreases wear.

[@powellmachineinc]

Yep, we are dialing in the process

[@jamestregler1584]

Funny as all getout, thanks from old New Orleans 😇

[@amracingent]

Say thank,, I like him... I built and custom parts my self etc,,, and he is good and honnest , him accent toooo.. Thank again.

[@ericschulz6342]

Would it be better to hone a block with a torque plate or not? Having to block under stress with head torque on it would that give you a better idea of measurements? Enjoy your videos keep them coming thank you.

[@dougobrien2840]

That was a funny intro .I was laughing my ass off .Cheers from Australia.

[@powellmachineinc]

💯, it was hilarious 😂

[@ericschulz6342]

I really like the old-school shop I like your set up. What is the highest horsepower engine that you have built?

[@josecarreira8934]

When talking about the data on your electronic reader is that telling the cross hatch pattern or the depth of the grooves that the stone leaves behind, a bit of curiosity for me. I know you said about moving to a 600 stones plus never seen that electronic reader before.

[@powellmachineinc]

We are talking profile, peaks and valleys

[@loosend7369]

🤣🤣 I think your dead pan delivery needs work and I wondered if you were going to make it through it. LOL I was already laughing by the time you cracked. LMAO

[@powellmachineinc]

it was all i could do to hold it together.....

[@loosend7369]

I bet. The camera man cracking up didn’t help. LMAO

[@rickh633]

When I see this I have old stones that I remove all the stone but the last inch then use the dwell bar to hold the hone at the bottom until its gone.

[@Dave.S.TT600]

Hahaha Love the Laugh! Good onya Mate

[@powellmachineinc]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@mikeleschber33]

Another great video!

[@powellmachineinc]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@StevenDaugherty-uo5cs]

Legitimate question here, if you've got a cylinder with excessive taper that's too tight at the bottom can't you short stroke it to clean up the bottom and then finish it with a few full strokes to make it uniform?

[@powellmachineinc]

That's exactly what we did

[@StevenDaugherty-uo5cs]

@@powellmachineinc Thank You, I appreciate your taking the time to reply. I find it amazing how bad some of the stuff you get in is and yet most of the time you're able to save it. But like you say it's easy to take metal away it's a lot harder to try and put it back.

[@tonypitsacota2513]

Stevie did some body work for me one time.

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol

[@okiereb2349]

I had to fix some welds Ray did!

[@powellmachineinc]

It happens

[@waltwoolvett3789]

Thanks Some engines I purposely finished tight in the ring travel area.

[@jonelford]

"Up here we zero, down here we full-on Ray Charles..." Spit my coffee on that one!

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol

[@Douglawerence]

Believe it or not stock ls 6.2 piston to wall clearance is -.002 to +.001 due to the way the piston is designed and how it expands when it is heated the tight gets looser and the loose gets tight

[@Planeiron]

CharlesWonder auto body paint & Machine shop you can see the Details in our work cause we sure as hell can't

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol.....🤣🤣🤣

[@Boostismyfriend]

Good ole silvolite i had a remand engine i pulled out a avalanche that had them, it bent a rod from a stuck injector,

[@ZMANPERF]

Nice job....

[@powellmachineinc]

Ty!!

[@strokermaverick]

Love, to see people get tickled!😄

[@powellmachineinc]

It was fun!

[@popatop6657]

It is possible that the last half inch to cause premature ring failure and blow by. In my opinion of course. I enjoy watching you.

[@powellmachineinc]

Nah, it's not gonna do that

[@kellismith4329]

Haha, Ray was really tickling the ivories on that one

[@cico3946]

Great Info, thanks

[@powellmachineinc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@RussellCompton-fh3gr]

would a torque plate dissort the bore that much ?

[@powellmachineinc]

No, but one wasn't used

[@powellmachineinc]

@@garlandjones7709 I love when people tell me what i "need" to be doing, you should watch my "do you need a torque plate " video for a education

[@powellmachineinc]

@garlandjones7709 if you think. 0004" is a issue it just proves you have never honed a block, if we are doing 15k plus race engines with light and small rings, we are gonna do everything possible...street engine with stock rings and pump gas riding up amd down the highway is a absolute waste of time, there are however some problem engines that actually move a lot that we plate even with stock rings and pistons, ultimately everyone wants to do the best job possible but you telling me to charge my customer for something he will never get a return on is stupid, and not your call or business, if you want to open a shop and do it your way, carry on, and lmk how it pans out, all the best

[@hotrodray6802]

Torque plates ?

[@powellmachineinc]

If the customer pays for them....

[@powellmachineinc]

@@garlandjones7709 that would be a horrible thing to do

[@hotrodray6802]

I remember those dingle ball deglaser things.... 😲😲

[@olduhfguy]

Can those of us that don't have a honing machine get by with a dingle berry (flex hone) ?

[@powellmachineinc]

You would have to elaborate on "get by"

[@olduhfguy]

​​@@powellmachineinc I'm thinking along lines of: low or no bore taper and sized within max .005 o/s using rigid stone type cylinder hone and finished with a flex hone. for a stock std bore rebuild, if unable then rebore and find a Sunnen in a machine shop.

[@flpanhead]

This was probably honed by hand with a drill and 3 stone cylinder hone. I've done it a few times and it's tricky for the average guy to not pull it too far out of the top. You really have to pay attention.

[@rockharvey5787]

I’m betting that previous home job was done with a handheld drill

[@powellmachineinc]

Na, it was bored and honed

[@rockharvey5787]

@@powellmachineinc wow it really was Ray Charles at the controls!

[@aarondwyer3746]

Ray Charles at Stevie Wonders zip shop,thats beautiful music brothers

[@danielweinbaum]

JUST AWSOME

[@powellmachineinc]

Ty!!

[@chriswise1232]

How large can you take those aluminum 5.3s?

[@powellmachineinc]

3.898

[@mohanperformance.enginerd.1308]

Bore taper is an interesting topic in that how do we know it is not better with being say .001 larger at the top? I say that because the top of the pistons hotter and expands more. The rings are hottest at the top. Bore distortion is greatest at the top. And so whose to say in dynamic running conditions. That plus .001" at the top is not better. Most of us shoot for consitancy. Zero taper. But i think there is a good argument for .001 thou or less taper top to bottom not actually being a concern.

[@powellmachineinc]

The cylinder is doing the same, it's hot at the top, the cylinder should be small at the top if anything.

[@shaunheath3236]

Definitely hilarious but imo squareness of the cylinder is more important than it being .001" oversized. When the cylinder has a tapper, the rings can't expand fast enough on its way back up at higher rpms to maintain the seal. I haven't tested it but have seen a poor dingle ball honed engine that I've tore apart where the owner said it would lose power about 3500-4k. The only issue I found was .0025 of tapper, top to bottom. After some research, with other people experiencing the same seneraio that had to be it. I'm not sure what the tolerances are and am not bashing you in any way. Just wanted to hear you thoughts on what I've experienced.

[@powellmachineinc]

I have seen out of round and taper with good leakage #'s and make big power with a turbo, so the rings are way more capable than one may think

[@gonzalolopez7199]

great video! saludos

[@powellmachineinc]

Ty!

[@BIGTONY2132001]

You know its gonna be a funny when you snort before you finish saying what you're gonna say!!! LMAO! 0:20

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol

[@boknows3841]

To machine the cylinder you need to know the property of the aluminum and know how much they will grow when they get hot and you bore and hone to the pistons, not a standard number. Remember the old Dodge, they were bored to a fractional size, not a standard bore like 4.125, 4.135 etc..

[@powellmachineinc]

Correct, this is basic machining 101

[@boknows3841]

@@powellmachineinc it would be mutually beneficial for you to bore it and hone it as cheap as possible, no torque plate, no blue print and make the customer use it savings to purchase new pistons, even Keith Black Hypereutetics, Never listen to the customer because when it blows up it will be all your fault. Better off just saying get your junk out of here and let someone else get burned. I had a friend who tried to save money by pressing on the piston himself, only he put them all on the rods backwards. I broke one trying to get the pins out in the press. And it was all my fault.

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

How do you feel about total seal quick seat powder?

[@powellmachineinc]

No experience with it, we use atf and never have any issues

[@ShawnGilbert1967]

@@powellmachineinc just curious hilarious video thanks for it

[@AmigaMan500]

Wait a minute, was Ronnie Milsap there too? Did Jose Feliciano set up the machine?

[@powellmachineinc]

Possible. ..

[@teamgrizzly2859]

I had a 4.030 Mahle piston and the piston measure 4.0223

[@powellmachineinc]

That's definitely small

[@hotrodray6802]

Pistons are smaller at the top. There's a specific place to measure them on the mid skirt.

[@teamgrizzly2859]

@@hotrodray6802 I know how to correctly measure them lol

[@claudehall7889]

It looks like someone got a cheap Harbor Freight hone and hand drill for Christmas

[@benjaminskwirut]

Crying laughing at 30 seconds. Hilarious.

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol

[@scottlasater4658]

I honestly thought that Ray Charles was a legit machinist until I heard he worked at Stevie Wonder's shop. I get it now!

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol

[@LTV_inc]

Just remember that even if you have a slight idea of what you’re doing it makes you an expert. 😊

[@powellmachineinc]

Well....

[@LTV_inc]

@@powellmachineinc I’m talking about the honer…. 🥲

[@lazyhoundracing9621]

I think I've bought parts from that speed shop. I'm smarter than I was 15 minutes ago. Thank you for your time.

[@powellmachineinc]

Ty!! We appreciate you

[@nooki1102]

Metric system for the win

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol

[@moter3d]

Where is the torque plate ?

[@powellmachineinc]

Beside the hone

[@moter3d]

@@powellmachineinc why didn’t you use it?

[@powellmachineinc]

@@moter3d because the customer didn't pay for that option.

[@fastst1]

I've always thought, let the machinist source the pistons as the hand on the tools know what pistons are junk and which ones are good.

[@powellmachineinc]

Yup

[@jimgandee2570]

That intro was funny as $hit!

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol

[@williamhamill813]

8 stone dimond stones. You get more consistent holes.

[@powellmachineinc]

I agree

[@Expedition18]

Couldnt keep it straight. Lol😂

[@powellmachineinc]

Lol

[@timotheegoulet1511]

Serious Ray Charles use to work on engines?