We gotta talk about this torque plate deal.....

In this episode we go over when and where and why to use a Torque plate.
Powellmachineinc.com

[@darinmorgan3520]

Very intelligent, well thought out reply to this topic. The problem with my statement about TQ plates refer to engines producing 2.5 hp/cid or higher. Very efficient high revving engines with rings .026 thick are extremely touchy in regards to ring seal and .0002 is a target tolerance. This man is 109% correct on the context and points he brings up. One major point here is, he didn’t pay for it. Second point about the .0004-.0005. Variance for a stock or mild performance engine is, as he stated, insignificant. I remember saying the comment about not using TQ plates and being on drugs. I said it. I was ignorant of the context here and should have asks for specifics before I shot my mouth off. Context matters

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty for clarification on your statement and I really appreciate you taking the time to chime in and set the record straight!

[@thejackofeverything7961]

Probably makes the factory hone look like hot garbage any way lol

[@r.peters4314]

@@thejackofeverything7961 ❤

[@flexmasterson4297]

Folks need to give all of their argument parameters to the gentleman when they make their argument, or it wastes a lot of the gentleman’s time, which he is giving out free of charge on KZbin along with his trade knowledge and tricks and dos and songs and so forth.

[@Mr688895]

The really sad thing that got missed here is no one that I saw asked the going rate of unicorn farts. Seems to me catching and bottling that for resale would be extremely expensive not to mention time consuming. Keep up the great work and the great videos and thank you for the time.

[@markthegunplumber8376]

Dad used to say "A little Bit of Knowledge is a Dangerous Thing" and "Those who think they know what they are doing, piss off those of us who do"

[@hackaboom]

aint that the truth.

[@skylinefever]

People on reddit and 4chan call those know it alls midwits.

[@Scummy_shovel]

Goes with what my grandfather told me. “Education is expensive. Regardless of how you get it. If it’s knowledge worth having it’s going to cost you something. Some how. Some way. You’re paying”. And it’s usually with experience

[@gags730]

Great Comment. Since the invention of things like KZbin I have never met more people in my life that are 'Experts' on not just 1 thing but many and yet have never done the work or job EVER.... Watching a couple of hours of Surgery does not make anyone a Brain Surgeon. If you read the comments you wonder why anyone would have a problem finding a machinist, a mechanic, a transmission guy etc. I'm shocked I don't see Lathes and Milling machines thrown out on every block and find Mitutoyo Calipers and Starett micrometers at every garage sale or auction you go to 😂 With all these experts I am shocked anything is broken anywhere! I gotta run because I have to watch two videos on how a build an addition and remodel my kitchen so that I know more than the guy who is doing work on my house with 25 years experience. The wife said I was too busy, so I had to subcontract that part of my life out! hahaha! She didnt do it because I don't have the experience, as she knows I can get all that in just a weekend on KZbin like all tyhe other experts out there! hahaha

[@Steelhorse741]

I couldn’t have been dignified in schooling keyboard warriors the way you have. Kudos.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty 100

[@Moparmaga-1]

Was the guys name Bob Mopar ?​@@powellmachineinc3179

[@stevebates5973]

@@powellmachineinc3179 he means that he wouldn't have been as kind as you were in describing how idiotic the one demanding a torque plate hone on grannies LS wagon.../

[@OBD01]

Two of the reasons I pay people is for their knowledge and experience. One thing money cannot buy is integrity.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Facts

[@logancarter2134]

Exactly!!!

[@logancarter2134]

Exactly!!!

[@unknowndevice1496]

I came for the torque plate knowledge and stayed watching for the short bus jokes

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol

[@hackaboom]

same.

[@NickKautz]

When someone says "I learned from so and so" it makes me think they don't actually understand what they are doing. Because if they did, their knowledge would have surpassed whoever taught them by now and they wouldn't need or want to depend on someone else for credibility.

[@Group_Anonymous]

Hwhat is a torque plate??? 🫨

[@NickKautz]

@@garlandjones7709 We all learn from other people, good and bad. But I think if I can't prove myself with only logic of the matter at hand, I probably don't know it well enough.

[@scottbarron1427]

I agree with you 100%. The other side of commenters is, if you were Torque plate honing stock blocks... they'd be calling you a rip off atrist and accusing you of padding the bill. Couple of years ago, my LC9 ate a lifter. While I had the heads off, I had them surfaced and my exhaust manifolds belt sanded. This is a work truck. No mee seats, no new guides, no nee springs. Dropped the heads off on Monday got em back on Wednesday. Truck was running again on Thursday. Machine shop charged me 300 bucks. It aint a race car, and every minute its not on the road costs me money. I didn't have 2 weeks to wait for all that to be done. For what a 15 year old truck with 200k miles on it? Thank God there's honest machinists like you out there.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Thank you sir!!

[@bigjim8088]

Exactly some people just dont know anything other than what they have read or seen with certain vehicles. With most common situations its not necessary to go all out people just want it to run good. They dont want a race car.

[@SemperMortem]

right?? I had people jumping down my ass when I said putting a torque plate on my toyota v6 aint gonna do shit. It's got 130hp on a good day with 350k on it. Getting a torque plated hone will cost me the same as getting another motor down at picknpull. lol

[@jonelford4513]

Gotta love the internet experts that have never done anything but dingleball their small block. I admire your ability to stay calm! Keep preaching reality, brother.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty!!

[@brianf8621]

But they dingleballed with a torque plate. 😂😂

[@jonelford4513]

@@brianf8621 As well they should! 😂

[@billweston6579]

You gotta love the internet and it’s information. How many manufacturers use torque plates when manufacturing new engines. Lol

[@stevebates5973]

@@billweston6579 Yeah, the manufacturers don't waste the time torque plate the engine to begin with. Why do it for the wifes Tahoe?

[@MattOBrien-lm6pe]

100% agree with this 🙌. I'm an engine reconditioner in Australia 🇦🇺 and had my own business but got sick of dealing with these type of wankers who know more (with no trade qualifications) or know a friend that can do it cheaper. That's why I shut my business down, kept all my machines and now just machine my own race engines. keep up the good work mate, love your videos👍👍👍

[@zacharymccracken6417]

Some people see all this stuff on KZbin and don't understand that building high end race engines is a completely different thing than building daily drivers, or hacking together used parts to get a broke customer back on the road. Keep getting it done man.

[@andrewslagle1974]

Or a budget weekend race car !

[@VinnyMartello]

Exactly. I’ve dingled and Jerry-rigged plenty of old small blocks to keep them running. I’ve done full rebuilds and I just eyeballed the crankshaft and said “yeah it looks okay” and slapped on new bearings. Said motor is already 3000 miles into the hillbilly rebuild and runs better than it ever has (in my memory).

[@celestialmachine]

This. Its insane to me reading what some people suggest to do to a DD. The tolerancecs and pressures are just so wildly different than a fully built, sleeved, girdled, billet block that its just incomparable. I'm not building a 9 second car with a stroker that hits 8.5k. I'm trying to have fun heading to the grocery store or out on a country drive.

[@karltite128]

Ever witnessed a shade tree rebuild on a daily that works just fine? Then you have witnessed a reality.

[@timothybayliss6680]

We rebuilt a roller block 302 ford for a demo derby car, the block was from one of my cars and had been overheated really badly twice. It had almost 0.040 piston to wall after a really hard run with a glazebreaker. It was really noisy but had good oil pressure. Derby cars get really hot, especially if the rad gets popped, having a mile of piston clearance keeps them from seizing when the water leaves and things start to cook.

[@advancedautomotivemachine4791]

As a machine shop owner I simply cannot thank you enough for this video !!!!! And your other videos. Keep it up :)

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Thanks for watching! And ur very welcome!

[@timothybayliss6680]

I watched a video of a guy building a BMW s38 inline six. The head bolts are more than an inch from the bores. He had a torque plate made before he honed it. I dont think that he had 4/10 change. It was almost none. Look what happens to the bores on a 400/440 mopar with a torque plate, the head bolt threads are almost in the cylinder wall. Youre right about giving the customer what they need, i know one guy that will not swap a piston on a stock engine for another stock piston without balancing the rotating assembly. It was a head gasket/hydrolock issue and it pinched the rings. I told him to just grab a $20 used piston/rod off ebay to get it running and he wanted to pull the whole thing down and balance...the stock pistons and rods. It was like arguing with mud trying to tell him that he was wasting a huge amount of resources to get a stock truck engine running again.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@NBSV1]

People like that would probably be shocked if they saw the tolerance on piston and rod weights in a stock engine. They think everything needs to match to the hundredth of a gram or else the engine is going to rattle itself apart.

[@timothybayliss6680]

​@@NBSV1i even linked a magazine article showing that for most stuff under 6k rpm that 1/4oz inch is probably fine. You arent gonna notice that at 2200rpm on the freeway. Its already 100+k miles old and just needs to get going.

[@strokermaverick]

Excellent explanation, on the context subject. When, something needs to be done and when it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Thank you, Daniel.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Glad it was helpful!

[@clintonsmith9931]

Can’t believe that all those years before torque plates a one of those bored engines ever ran.

[@strokermaverick]

Can't believe any of my teenage dingle berry honed engines made the 45 minute drive to the dragstrip, ran 7.90's. Then drove to work and get groceries, etc. In my 50's now. Time and place for certain things, as Daniel said.🤝

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Exactly

[@stevebates5973]

@@strokermaverick My '73 Capri with 302/T5 ran 12.01 sec 1/4s for years, after a dingle ball hone and fresh pistons. 5 years later it ran an 11.50 balls out...

[@flexmasterson4297]

Very decent of this gentleman to share his several decades of experience building and fixing combustion engines so us weekend warriors know where to spend our pennies and where not to spend our pennies. Thank you, Sir.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Well said!

[@lamont22222]

I don't always use my dingle berry hone but when I do I use 2 torque plates for extra accuracy. Super Pro tip.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Great tip!

[@DownHillgamer]

Yeah screw a sunnen power stroker we got the ryobi powered dingle berries

[@johnkrag6]

You are exactly 100% correct. I own a machine shop and 3/4's these commenters have never operated any equipment!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@JusSkott]

😂😂😂 You would be amazed what someone can do with a hole saw, and then wrap it with sandpaper to hone. 🤣🤣🤣

[@paul44235]

Best damn engine machining channel on the tube!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Idk about that's, but I do appreciate the encouragement!

[@Expedition18]

Got that right.👍

[@logancarter2134]

YEP!!!

[@richardlapoint1845]

​@powellmachineinc3179 machining is a lost art. Aren't alot of good machine shops left. Keep fighting the good fight 💪🏻

[@user-yo1wo6yg2r]

Thank you for being a concientious machinist thats why i watch your channel by the way been building engines since 1971. Dont let these monday morning halfbacks get to you that said i understand your frustration. If you need to vent now or in the future feel free to use me

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯

[@LTV_inc]

Ahh yes you hit the absolute home run with this. I’m just a simple mechanical engineer that designed a lot of close tolerance parts that actually worked and the two things that matter, end result and temperature. Keep doing what got you here. Thanks! 😊

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Tyvm!

[@stormyyoung6344]

I always learn something when you answer the comments thanks for the Info.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Any time!

[@JohnLittlepage]

Logic and common sense outweighs nonsense day in and day out, keep it up!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty

[@andreassittig2772]

Excellent video, thank you! I'm kinda grateful to the guy who "No torqueplate ???"ed you because I learned so much.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Glad to help

[@rolliehunt5173]

I'm so glad to finally see a logical and valid explanation of the way this helps and when it doesn't. And why and when we are truly wasting our time and money. For close to 35 years of building my engines, I never have understood the need to torque plate bore and hone these factory blocks that are mostly too thin for any real gains. It's just never really made any sense to me. I couldn't prove anything, but I just knew to not waste money on it for my street driven vehicles. Yeah, they were warmed up a bit, but I never had issues with ring seating or blow by.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty, we appreciate you

[@rickeh100]

High school physics had a thermal dynamics module when I went to school. Lots of experiments to demonstrate how thickness and material affect expansion and repeated contraction. You are something else, giving an armchair engineer any credit by trying to educate them has to be frustrating! You are the only engine builder I subscribe to, you are modest and detailed with data and analysis of what you work on. I will how ever use your unicorn farts and fairy dust analogy! Stay calm and prosper!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol, thank you, I really appreciate that!!

[@fknbastages]

BAHAHA I love the photo of the short bus. You are such a standup guy. I admire you so much. You're accent is awesome, you're good looking, you know you're stuff, and you teach me in a way that no one could. Thank you brother.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Thank you so much!!

[@logancarter2134]

Sir, you are a GENTLEMAN AND A SCHOLAR! And I mean that in all seriousness and from the bottom of my heart. Your point that it's not right to charge people for things they don't need or want is EPIC and the proof for my original statement.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

We really appreciate that, and we always try to treat people fairly

[@logancarter2134]

@@powellmachineinc3179 as someone said below money cannot buy integrity! That's a truth through the generations. You have integrity Sir. It's one of the most valuable things you posses.

[@darksu6947]

​@@logancarter2134He reminds me a lot of my father who has ran a body shop for the last 40 years and has never overcharged or taken advantage of anyone. He seems like a very intelligent and honest man.......just like dear ol' dad 😁

[@dcole109]

I appreciate they way you reply to comments. They are in fact respectful to the ignorance of the person who commented but also contain a very clear education in customer service business practice and product knowledge. If comments like those are what it takes to receive such clear instruction then they’re not all bad. Sorry you get rubbed the wrong way at times but your rebuttal is excellent! Kudos

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty, I always try to be considerit and accurate, but.... I'm definitely not perfect

[@woofenhooter]

Playwright George Bernard Shaw once wrote: "Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." Been a big iron diesel mechanic far longer than I care to admit. Working primarily on marine equipment, these things run some 20,000 plus hours. I'm a mechanic, not a machinist. What I understand from Powell is: it's all relative. KZbin has been a blessing and a curse. Love your channel Powell Machine inc.!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Facts

[@mr.espeedshop4839]

The comparison to the FE with head threads right at the deck vs deep into the block is excellent.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@DavidBryan-rq5zo]

You can't win arguments with stupid people, they will drag you down too their level and beat you with experience!

[@richardtemple8141]

Mark Twain's words. Never a truer word spoken.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯

[@billrandell4641]

Old retired engine builder here. ..Lots if IMSA, SCCA, AMA, Etc. motors over my career...I was an early "Pioneer" of Torque Plates..Your 100% CORRECT! .. I built my first Torque Plate because I realized that my Porsche Cylinders were distorting severely!..along with my single cyl. Bike engines..They really make a BIG difference...I found out on V8's, V6's, Straight 8's etc. it wasn't such an issue..Aluminum block engines were of course, much more affected... On $20,000 4 cyl race motors, I used TP's..on $8,000 street motors, I didn't..I WAS ALWAYS a bigger deal on Single Cyl."style engines...'Speed Costs...How fast do you want to go"??? ...👍👍👍🗽🇺🇸

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Yep

[@braddenning1617]

I built several SBC & BBCs and just finished a 292 Chevy inline 6. 60 over 13.1 compression ,everything in this build was with top quality parts and Teflon coated every bearing .Using a MIL 30th head gasket. Never used a torque plate ever !!! never blew a head gasket or related problems and I'm doing this since the 70s !!! If I had one I would have used it. I never thought it necessary

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Good stuff

[@nitrofever]

Love your machining skills and truthfulness to the people who need education on what you “professionally “ do! Spending or suggesting where your customers will gain benefits from what you do and the cost to them will give you more work than you can handle. One thing I’ve learned is word of mouth reference of your honesty is priceless. Thanks for the vids keep em coming!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

I appreciate that!

[@jameshaskell6572]

I freaking love this channel. I will watch rants like this all day long. This is honestly one of Americas biggest downfalls in today’s age. People are just to impressed with their own opinions. The funny commercials,I stayed in holiday inn express last night comes to mind

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯, I remember those!

[@danielelliott3659]

I worked in a machine shop when I was a kid. Honing with torque plates was always an extra charge and only for performance engines. The stock engines didn't get honed with plates and didn't need it. This guy is completely correct

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty

[@user-br6zd3bv6i]

I had my 5.3 bored and I’m no machinist , I left that up to the facility, I’m a technician not a machinist!!! I’d take your word for it rather than question you with your years of knowledge!!! I asked them to line bore and do what needs done to get it where it needed to be!!! I enjoy your videos keep up the good work!!!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯

[@ronaldhaefner8515]

Well haha. Aint never used a torque plate for my donuts... and they eat just fine. Mr. Powell you are absolutely right on matching the customer for their budget and use of work. Built a lot of engines and never once did it occur to me to question a reputable machinist. Great video and shows the the other side of what a business owner deals with. Thumbs up.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Right on

[@ky8465]

I'm actually glad that guy made a bunch of stupid comments, because you made a video, and now I learned a lot about torque plates I did not know before.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Awesome, I'm glad it helps

[@richardk6238]

Love listening to someone speak on their area of expertise, keep doing your thing man

[@powellmachineinc3179]

I really appreciate that

[@WXSTANG]

I've seen things done to engines that would make a north americans head spin. "You need CNC, XYZ, Jigg it, surface the deck, straightened it, line hone it, blah blah". Its mostly nonsense and agree with you. There are other "reputable" builders who sell these services as a must have, but are just conning people out of their money. Thanks for being truly stand up and honest.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Yep

[@additudeobx]

I've owned 3 small business since 1997 and it's amazing what customers expect you to do for them for FREE. It never ends. I have a slogan. "I'd rather do NOTHING, than do something for NOTHING". I've told several customers that, flat out. I had one customer say in a snarky tone, "Well, how much could it possibly cost"? Like what work I perform is somehow insignificant compared to their need to get it for free.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Facts

[@joseffilipich9892]

Hi. I totally agree with you. I'm a machinist myself. I have always said much the same, the one thing I do is measure the pistons at 90 degrees Celsius to check there growth rate if I know that the engine is working hard. I check the block as it come out the hot tank then calculate the finished bore size from there. I have seen many a machine shop that just follow manufacturer recommendations and don't give enough clearance piston to bore and then the poor customer can't work out why the engine overheat's. I'm in Perth western australia and see these problems regularly when people are sent to me cause no one else can work it out.. Your one of the first I have come across that uses knowledge to think outside the box. Cheers and all the best to you from Perth western Australia.

[@mchristr]

Preach it brother! Ask the customer what they want done, give them a fair estimate...and it's yes or no. There's never any regret when you pay for quality.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯

[@MrChevelle83]

99% of the folks that know anything about tolerances cannot even possibly fathom maintaining .0004 or even calibrate the tools properly to even measure it reliably or consistently. ive never had an engine honed with a Tq plate. lol. excellent vid and info!!!!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@MrAnviljenkins]

I have HELD those tolerances on parts, but in the bargain we did not have any way to measure hows round a bore was other than a 2 point bore gauge, if the bore had a 3, 5, or 7 lobe out of round condition we could never have measured it with the tools we used to machine the parts. We very commonly had fairly small holes which had total .0005" tolerance, say .2495" to .2500" tolerance, we used gage pins to check that, inspection used gage pins to check it as well. if the holes were .0005" out of round gage pins don't show you that at all.

[@geniferteal4178]

Time to start recording room temperature and worrying about the accuracy of your thermometer.

[@MrChevelle83]

@@geniferteal4178 yea, good idea!

[@geniferteal4178]

@@MrChevelle83 Not sure if you're joking or not and I, i'm joking a little too. But seriously, My brother and I quickly realized doing our own work in the garage. Practice getting consistent measurements. It's easy when you have experience, but if you're doing your own stuff, just getting consistent readings is something to practice. Most people have no idea if they've never done it. Temperature becomes an issue, especially if the garage gets cold overnight. We knew our abilities and limitations. Torque plates were not on the radar yet back then. 😊

[@madewithscraps]

Thanks for this Factual, well stated video. I owned & operated an automotive machine shop for 33 years, not to forget the many years of working for other shops before and experiencing different machine brands and end results; Sunnen CK 10, Rottler, Certi and more. I loved my Quick-Way boring bar as you have in the background. Throughout attempting to satisfy my curiosity for torque-plates discovered that freeze plugs in or out of block, oil pump mounted or not, water pump and more created cylinder distortion in different areas of the cylinder when inspected with a dial bore gauge. As you say; until you actually torque plate a block-keep your opinions to yourself. I recall my early years in the 70s, torque plate honing my first block, chained to a pole on an engine stand-LOL. Needless to say, the automated hone was on order the next month. The difference between use of studs or bolts is also huge. Figure the bolt pulls Up-studs pull the head down. Back in the 90s I charged an additional $75 to torque plate hone after a block fill or pre boring undersize, and hated every minute of that compared to nocking out a nice set of cylinder heads. Nothing worse than a person's opinion on telling the machine shop operator how wrong they are. Did they go to any vocational or college training schools? Their brain originated on the automotive isle in Wally-World!

[@pauljanssen7594]

The only concerned I had about boring a block was this excessive rust in the cylinders, and the guy that taught me how to be a good machinist at this amazing answer about rust, and I'm just going to use the word pinhole. You guys figured out on your own what I mean.

[@GrandPitoVic]

This cat heard Darren Morgan's name on either KZbin or in a magazine and thought it would give grit to what he was saying.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Probably

[@1dave301]

Good explanation. You are correct. An experienced man in a critical business he is dedicated to shouldn't have to defend himself against that stuff. Good job, sir. Thanks

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Well said

[@schexnayderracingchannel8552]

As an engine builder myself…. I absolutely loved your response to the internet knowitalls!!!😁 it’s simply amazing a person will tell you how to do something…. But CANNOT change his own oil without fawking it all up!!! Or change plugs one at a time and still cross the wires!!! But going to tell me how to build. $30,000 race engine?? Why did you bring it to me sir??? Oh yea …..🤦‍♂️ you read on the internet!!!!🤷‍♂️🤣😂 I definitely applaud you sir!!!👍😁

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely 💯!!

[@venombob3364]

alot of people out there just want to bring others down and look or think they are superior don't let it get to you man. it is obvious to me that you are a good dude and do what you think is right that is all we can do definitely not going to please everyone.

[@TurboDog73TX]

The title of this video should be: "How to school squerrils 101“. You are a patient man brother. WAY more so than Me.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol

[@jamesbtri]

My God when he said you should be riding a short bus I spit my coffee all over my dash... it's his accent and people assume the way he sound he isn't a smart guy. Jokes on you. He is pretty God damn smart and on point .

[@powellmachineinc3179]

I'm just average, but I really appreciate the encouragement

[@bambamb43]

I had a machine shop for almost 30 years, i was ASE certified master engine machinists and bored hundreds of blocks without torque plates and had zero issues, i was building bad ass engines before torque plates were invented !

[@davidgough1161]

You obviously really know what you are doing, makes me like you even more! Thank You for being a really good machinist!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Thanks for watching! We really appreciate the kind words!

[@georgedreisch2662]

Holy crap Dan… So much hostility. You’d think that y’all do this for a living…😂

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ha....

[@douglasbuckland8280]

Intil I watched this video, I figured all blocks would be torque plated, from an engineering standpoint it just seemed like due diligence. I had never considered the economics in regards to your business or that in the overall scheme of things some builds just don't benefit from being honed with a torque plate. I think that this video was very instructive and educated many of us. Thanks again.

[@ChristmasCrustacean1]

back in the day when it was all done by machinists in the manufacturers factory it was never a thing and modern engines are CNC machined without a torque plate. its just extra when chasing perfection in high horsepower and racing builds.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@powellmachineinc3179]

You are very welcome

[@stevebates5973]

Just think about this, time costs money, so spending more time on a block that doesn't need the work, costs money... And $200 is a lot of money for someone who doesn't make a lot...

[@SirHellstream]

Absolutely love your content! Very informative to an enthusiast like myself, and my hats off to your patient and measured approach to educating people like myself.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty, we really appreciate that

[@xacksparrow4776]

Well, by Golly, you better be building granny, a 550 hp over camed 5.3 from here on out by golly everything needs to be torque plated, you know that right? Shop owner here. You know that every you tube certified mechanic is an engine builder ! The few videos I’ve watched you’re spot on.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty! We really appreciate that

[@bondvagabond42]

Bigginers dont know the rules, so they mess up, intermediate skill level, get really zealous about following all the rules, cause they know they are there for a reason, and they dont want to make an expensive mistakes. The master knows where they can cut corners, not to rip the customer off, but so they can spend that saved time on some other part of the job that will help the customer out more.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely spot on...., love it

[@chuckg3517]

Special bus…. had me 😂

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol

[@stevebates5973]

@@powellmachineinc3179 SWMBO (she who must be obeyed) was asking what I was Laughing at, then she laughed...

[@mikegallagher8355]

Really enjoy your informative videos. I’m almost 73, been an industrial mechanic my whole career working with some of the best machinists in the country, with a past hobby of building and racing dirt cars. I’m well past that but I’m building a ‘33 ford kit car. I’m gonna be running a teksid block 4.6L 4v. Back in my engine building days, I always had my stuff honed with torque plates just because it made sense to distort the block as if the heads were on. (I had a machine shop $ponsor). So, I’m trying to soak up everything I can prior to my engine build. I now know I don’t have to torque plate my block so thanks for saving me money. I really appreciate your content so keep ‘em coming! Mike Gallagher

[@powellmachineinc3179]

I'm about to do a mod engine

[@mikegallagher8355]

@@powellmachineinc3179 I’ll be on the lookout! Thanks

[@tedjones-ho2zk]

Really enjoyed how you went down the torque plate rabbit hole, and with heat and cold cycles and the uneven thermal expansion of engine. Short bus too.....

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol

[@owensbama1923]

The problem is you are trying to help people that think they know what they are talking about when they dont. They have no real world experience. They usually are just spewing things they have heard other people say. I am an Aircraft Mechanic and I'm sure you know we get the same crap. I enjoy your videos and I hope you keep doing them and don't get fed up with these idiots and get discouraged from doing them.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Dunning Kruger

[@owensbama1923]

@powellmachineinc3179 no doubt about that. Lol they get on my nerves too.

[@hoofarted8709]

I always torque plate my lawn mower and weed eater...heck, i even torque plated my can opener and dishwasher:)

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@vg23air]

8 months ago I began researching the extensive use of the briggs and stratton 23 hp vanguard series engines being used for over a decade to fly ultralight planes in Europe, i am in Virginia. I am determined to make something lol using that platform, to that end, I contacted Powell regarding crankshaft balancing as I am replacing the internals and no one ever re-balances these from what I can see. He said he could help me :) Guess what, after 8 months, I am waiting on UPS today to deliver my BS Vanguard and start my build :) At some point I am sending detailed info to Powell and arranging an appointment to send it to him :)

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯 we will take care of you

[@tomp538]

Right on! If you don't need micron tolerance round holes; you don't need a torque plate. I've bored hundreds of cylinders at the motorcycle shop, never used a torque plate. Ironically when I needed the cylinder bored for my race bike I took it to a guy!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@smet145]

Great response. I wouldn't even bother responding to these type of comments, unless they're respectful and seem to be genuinely trying to learn. You can usually tell by their toxic tone that they aren't gonna listen to logic anyway. This toxicity is all across social media, so never take it to heart and remember it's the minority of us here. I come here to learn about engines and machining from a pro, not to tell you how to do your job. Having said all that, we've ended up with a super informative video on torque plates from it all 😄

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Yep I shouldn't

[@danlscan]

I'm gonna make some T-shirts: "Where's the torque plate?" These will also feature the angry face of a very large machinist with steam coming out of his ears.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol

[@yourposer]

i once asked about the torque plate. it was in the video that you did a puerto rico or mexican honda. the only reason i asked was because in a previous video you used a torque plate for a dirt track motor. i've sent several trucks motors out for rebuild and had never really heard of it, but it made sense in my head. you responded to my comment (thank you) and you said that it wasn't required for that engine. that made sense to me and i left it that. thank you for sharing your knowledge to a guy like me that tinkers in their garage. i enjoy and learned a lot from your YT channel

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty, glad you like the content

[@jasonhall8706]

The truth needs no justification… appreciate your videos.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Ty, we appreciate you

[@joejoesmojo32]

Thank you for clarifying that on LS motors. It seems all the LS fanboi's are the absolute worse about criticizing and correcting people online.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@jimzivny1554]

Very good explanation, the lawnmower comment was great 😂

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol

[@vornice7604]

people these days on the internet aren't worried about the truth or the facts just worried about being right. you hit the nail on the head.

[@victoramato4692]

Your totally right! Plus the top ring is 1/4" below the top of the deck of the block! As a retired 50 yr machinist i never pushed torque plates. Then there was the discussion about head gaskets or no head gaskets! Not reusing gaskets, buying double sets of gaskets,brands of gaskets! Yikes! Always thought they were unessesary waste on non competition cars. Some machinist like to scare the customer into unnecessary steps to hike up the bill. Proud to say i never did that. I went by budget and what they were using it for.

[@chopperguy57]

I’ve learned a lot watching your videos. Thank you

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Glad it helps

[@bowtiekid329]

Some people are just not worth having a lenghty conversation with! Especially a qualified one! As Powell said, it's just not worth the time of explaining it to some people!

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@cody900]

Although annoyance from uneducated comments are irritating , everyone learns something when a video is produced like this with the explanation shown. Thanks.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Absolutely

[@btecx]

Very well explained and addressed. People these days feel like they always have to challenge people that know WAY more than they do. They are ways to respectfully ask a question and then there is showing your ignorance with a simple comment. It does get hard to keep biting your tongue when they keep at it. You did well sir. And as always, thank you for the knowledge. 💪

[@GNX157]

I’d rather spend the extra on getting the right hone with the deeper valleys and the correct surface finish for the ring package, crankcase pressure and oil control.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely, but part is std here

[@trev6783]

You're wrong. That guy has watched at least 40 youtube videos and knows what he's talking about.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Lol

[@deancrawford2577]

Absobloodylutely!, After I qualified as an Automotive Machinist in 98, we had been looking at blocks that had issues with distortion and landed up purchasing a number of torque plates and yes we inform the customer if his/her block is one that needs a torque plate bore/hone. We know some Toyota 4 cylinder blocks that distort something terrible without the plate. Nice one Daniel 👍🏻

[@cmdrclassified]

I have been a Mechanic for 35+ years now. All I know is that every day is a school day! And trust your Machinist! Like you said, torque plates are great for race engines, but Grandma's car doesn't need it. I think there's only been 5-8 engines in my entire career that I have requested a torque plate use. Have a great day, Sir. o7

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Thank you!!

[@bradhuffjr777]

Obama said everything was going to be free.

[@bobd9911]

Yeah for him not us lol

[@micahtroyer4181]

I agree on the torque plate , but I'm disappointed you don't put your camshafts through the flux capacitor after grinding it :)

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Top secret suff there

[@sailingjazzy8272]

Torque Plate Police 🤣 These keyboard warriors watch some Steve Morris 4000HP 75K build and parrot nonsense on stock builds. OEM is probably off by way more.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯

[@ShawnS1972]

I am so glad to see someone with a you tub Channel finally stand up to some of these stupid people that make these dumb comments. This man is a professional engine builder. Who in their right mind would be so dumb to question what he does every day for a living. The man is right. I own my own business and some people want to argue with me win I tell them what they need. Well if you know what you need then why did you call me? People don't get it. This man knows what he is doing. Stop the dumb questions. Thanks for what you do.

[@fluxcapacitor9867]

Grew up in auto machine shop 30 years with it & you are sharing simple truths, especially about never holding a torque plate in your hand. High end aftermarket blocks true to your telling yes are near perfect I always send mine off now that I’m out that business to friends at big shop & request torque plate , deck & line hone but they never need it , once the world product name on the outer front of head where nothing touches blipped .002, lol

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@apollorobb]

This crap comes from the same kinda guys that watch Sloppy Mechanics and comment on that FB page . The same guys that assemble their motors in their kids sand box .

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Yup, facts

[@apollorobb]

@@garlandjones7709 Who gives a shit about how long someone has been wrong about something lol

[@apollorobb]

@@powellmachineinc3179 Seems that when the dude gets his ass handed to him he deletes his stupidity ...Sign of a Troll

[@FullCeramicDetail]

Great video! I got here because I saw MotoIQ talking about how some shops didn't build subaru turbo engines correctly because they didn't use torque plates - but this was also because those had rings much higher up the piston that was a limiting issue , so that top part of the piston matter more when pusing higher than 100+ horsepower. But what do I know. It seems like they make sense on a use-by-use basis and isn't universal that torque plates are ALWAYS needed on every car. GREAT video sir!

[@frankmc5112]

I'm no machinist, no expert, and I don't go measuring PTW clearances everyday. I will say that my local machinist that has been in business building everything from Airplane, Diesel, Marine and automotive engines will not do a job without a torque plate. If he can't get one he makes one. He has one for nearly everything and loans them out too. It's business within itself. Maybe he's the only one that does this, but it's that kind of meticulousness which is why I like him. It's the things you do when no one else is looking that create quality and put integrity into your work. I'm just glad we still have a few good machinist in this world as the youngest one in my area is 54 years old. Lol.

[@piercer4882]

Can you do a video how you got into this business? Did you go to school to be a machinist, or on the job training? How long have you been in the business and stuff like that? I always find it interesting to hear the back story how skilled people learnt their trade and how they built a business around it

[@powellmachineinc3179]

A origin story 8s in the works

[@danielmarkle8823]

This is a man that knows his craft and can prove it !! I have a radiator shop in Arkansas and run into the same type of stuff all day long. Have comments like "my uncle who is a mechanic said it's not a head gasket if I can't see water on my dip stick"..... Lol good video and thanks for the education.....

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Thank you, I really appreciate that

[@galenbrown3312]

I've been building SBC engines since 1971 and have spent more time than I like to admit about what happens to the different components when they get hot. When we assemble racing engines they are room temperature. The components change dimension when hot. I wish we could absolutely know for certain the dimensions when heated-up.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely

[@chillznax]

I listened to a High Performance Academy podcast with an engine builder, and they talk specifically about the things you mentioned on all the other variables like engine block temp while honing. It was interesting what the guy found. Basically after warming the block and trying to account for thermal expansion with everything they needed to figure out new acceptable tolerances. That the numbers when cool fell out of range for bearings. The bearing manufactures take into account thermal expansion and a block that is machined when cool. Was pretty interesting. I may have that slightly wrong, but basically it sounded like you would have to figure out all new values based off of machining something optimally at temperature. It sounded like in practice the results are not even close to what you’d expect.

[@SGTRandyB]

As a newbie to engines only 6 months into auto tech training two things are really clear to me: #1 The Dunning Kruger Effect is strong in the automotive community, where many people with lower capability than real experts, have much higher confidence than actual experts. Bob got a job in a shop 6 weeks ago and thinks he can school the 30+ year veteran master tech. And #2, real experts constantly couch honest discussion in caveats like “I don’t know everything, as far as I can tell, someone might can show me something new but,”, it’s honest and accounts for even sometimes unknown variables to land on “measured confidence”. 🚩Overconfidence is a red flag. 🚩

[@powellmachineinc3179]

#1 is actually worse than you think

[@user-rk1bf4eh2p]

We've done engines for years with no torque plates thank you very much

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Right on

[@terryenyart5838]

I honed my stock block with my BHJ plate using a head gasket just as a precaution. I was hoping to distort the block as it would be fully assembled. I honestly can't say if it made a huge difference or not. But I hoped to have the most concentric cylinders possible. I do believe the rings will seat-in & wear-in to its best sealing ability. Rings only travel up so far and do not get within .500" of the deck in most applications. Not every engine block needs honed with a torque plate, but if someone wants to pay for it, then do it and smile taking their $.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Depends on which engine, but hone profile is the biggest factor in ring seal.

[@jackd7041]

You are very correct 99% of motor builds don't need a torque plate especially semi performance Street engines with forged Pistons. The clearances necessary for these engines to run aren't going to care about the slight bit of change with or without a torque plate. In my experience, the only engines I really care about torque plates on are import engines being built to last a couple of hundred thousand Miles. If you're piston to wall clearance spec is 0.0015 then 4 tenths matters. But then again, this has nothing to do with a performance engine build unless you consider longevity performance.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

💯

[@baronblansit]

I have never heard of a torque plate, so thank you. I will not claim to know things I do not know. I actually find it easier for me to just act ignortant. I am not actually stupid but I am ignorant on building engines, but I find the amount of wisdow it takes to build engines amazing. I was in the Marines as a 6322 as an Avionics Tech. on a CH46E Helicopter. I can assemble engines and have loved working on motorcycles, as well as anything I have driven. But, the technology behind and the science of getting engines to perform is amazing and way over my understanding without a lot of time to grasp. My hat is off to you sir.

[@powellmachineinc3179]

Definitely!!, tyvm

[@PaulTserghanos-cl7tx]

Thank-you for the clear explanation on when to use torque plates. I find it very misleading for people to comment about the use of torque plates, when they don't understand the basic physical limitations of material properties. Keep up the great videos.