Fixing Batten Problems on the Timber Frame Barn

[@jschmied73]

Doing my own siding project for the first time and your clear explanation of the 'inside vs outside cupping' debate was very helpful. Thanks for the video!

[@olddawgdreaming5715]

Hey Tim, glad the weather was right for resetting the battens. That’s a pretty common repair on most board and batten builds. Thanks for sharing with us how you repaired yours. Always enjoy seeing your videos, you’re doing a great job around there.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks!

[@wymershandymanservice9965]

Myself included , in our haste to finish a project or own idea of rebuilding the wheel we still find that there’s always time to do it over. Great content just fix it and move on. 👍

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

True, very true. Thanks!

[@hremaddox]

Thank you! I'm also having problems with my Victorian board and batten shed and wasnt sure what to do. Liked, subscribed and hit the notification bell

[@lonnieclemens8028]

An excellent video on Board and Batten siding.

[@flapwheat]

Great information! I'm in the Mid-South (US) and built two western red cedar cabins, both of which still need battens installed. My planks are all curving out a fair amount. Wish me luck!

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Sealant, big screws, and wide battens. Good luck!

[@trex283]

Use stainless steel fasteners with cedar. It keeps them from staining badly. One zinc fastener can stain your boards between 2 and 3 feet radius.

[@TORKSTEER]

That mustache grew a hell of a man.

[@Gerry2210]

Really looking great Tim, the metal has blended in very well with the timber. 👍👍

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks it does look nice

[@TP-ii9lx]

Could you explain the transition from the long boards to those cut at angle on gable end. Where exactly did u place your horizontal board? Seems that bottom bat should have been cut 2 inches shorter, so the horizontal board would cover the butt-joint of the vertical 10 inch boards or am I missing something? Did you use any flashing or anything around windows or anywhere? Great video -- getting ready to do my 30x44 barn w Cypress board & batten! Thanks

[@charlesloftis2920]

Lieutenant: you're The Man! Great fix.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks brother!

[@funnybunnies1724]

Can you use cdx sheathing for the siding? Will it stand up to the weather if you caulk and paint it?

[@williamboquist4090]

Here in the Midwest, the means used to create a tight seal where the outer edge of the batten contacts the board is to mill a slightly dished surface on the side of the batten that faces the wall. There is also often an ogee profile milled on the two edges of the batten. My hunch is that the battens were milled on a multi-head machine in a single pass. I've always assumed that the ogee profile was decorative, but I would like to be corrected, if anyone knows what function it may have been intended to serve.

[@stephendelaney4700]

In New Zealand we we have to use weather groves

[@hedgeapplehomestead2816]

Would 3/4 or 4/4 be the minimum on the board? And could you use 1/2 for the batten? Gonna do it all on my mill.

[@MrRerod]

Nails in the middle of the board? Ive "heard" only on one edge that gets covered by the batten.

[@anchor2056]

Always enjoy your videos. And you've come a long way since your first video. Look forward to many more.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thank you!

[@gallopingg1]

ANOTHER QUALITY VID, TIM. LOVE YOUR HORSE.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks Mick

[@simpleforging3339]

we used 3" deck screws to hold the batten strip down over 1" rough stock. Keep an eye out on sales prices to get some at an old regular price :) beauty job you've done there, I've been following for a while

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks a lot appreciate it!

[@bluethunder1951]

Thanks for sharing your issue on B&B 👍 I’m going to be using wet white pine on a carport I’m building now, and a future timber frame work shop.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Sounds great. Just remember how it moves and you will be okay

[@ProgramaAMOR]

They say white pine is very stable. I'm going to be using it on my barn (roughsawn 1"x12"). However, it should be fairly dry by the time I put it up.

[@letthechipsfly7620]

Using a proper size nail with a hammer is still faster than a nail gun and then a screwdriver and caulk. Pappy was a smart and practical man, he also said make the grain smile to keep you and it happy.

[@waynemizer4912]

True. Hand nailing would have been the superior choice in this case.

[@dragankoso9914]

What color stain did you use on your wood?

[@ironcladranchandforge7292]

Well, don't worry because the barn still looks fantastic. So, on my build I used rough sawed lodge pole pine boards and battens, full 1" thick as well. I put the inside of the tree facing out and used 3" deck screws to attach (after pre-drilling the holes to avoid splitting the wood). My thinking was that if the boards and battens cup, the edges will cup inwards and press against the boards making a better seal. But here's the deal, I was looking to build a truly rustic and traditional western looking building. As a matter of fact, I'm not staining or painting the boards and will let them turn gray to get that ghost town look, and then perhaps put on some clear coat or sealer. But one has to expect some gaps with this building method. The only other way would be to nail up plywood, wrap the building, then add the board and batten. I didn't want to do this either. Regardless, your barn is truly a fantastic building and will serve you well !!

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thank you! I agree, and I did expect some gaps and was not that worried about it but the wind driven snow is just getting in too much so I have to try to minimize them. You put your boards up the right way in my opinion. I should have done every board that way but I had the "dirty board" problem and not all of them are faced the correct way to keep the dirty side to the outside. Luckily, mine were pretty dry in the stack so that helped with movement a bit, but they still did cup some. I will get it fixed.

[@ironcladranchandforge7292]

@@GreatPlainsCraftsman -- I'm very interested on how your blacksmith shop turns out. Can't wait to see the progression on that, although I know you're busy and still need to construct the other building before winter. I've been dealing with all kinds of problems here on the ranch, which is why I haven't made a video yet. Haven't even had time to get a hair cut for over a month, and I keep my hair short, LOL...... I know you'll get the barn just the way you want it.

[@johnshearing]

Thanks for explaining both sides of the issue. 😄

[@ssx2channel977]

You don’t always know where it will leak until it leaks good fix stay warm more snow coming💚💜❄️

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

I know right. Will do.

[@paulcompton123]

Knowing what you know now...Would you have used wider battens? Do you think wider battens would've made a difference? Maybe wrapped and strapped? Or did screwing the battens down remedy the problem? Have a great New Year Tim!

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

I would make sure that the inside of the tree is out on every board. Even if the boards are dry, install with no gap, or maybe 1/4". if wet, no gap, they will shrink. Battens 4", I used 3". Screws, not nails. I would still nail in the center of the board, and center of batten. Be sure that at least 2x the length of the material going through is in the structure for each fastener. In my case, at least a 4" screw for the battens because the battens and boards are 1" thick each.

[@craigmooring2091]

Now you're 'batten' 1,000! ;-)

[@bpdp379]

Craig Mooring tough crowd!

[@timberdoodles4647]

Too late now, we have been applying edge splines/free spline. which would really tighten that seam up and the batten on top would just be for looks and a little added security. This is a system we are using on a light plank on frame system, it gets wrapped and strapped on top of the planks. Also I have completely gone to screwing everything. I hear and agree with the growth ring theory but I am such a screwer, I screw the whole face of the board and two screws on the batten, one on each side. A third option if you will. full belt and suspenders and tossing the cracks to the wind.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

That's a great idea. I should have just screwed it from the start, I knew better. Thanks for the Tip

[@SilverBack.]

Tim the look of the barn will not be changed which by the way is GREAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks Doug

[@michaelpeters7396]

Hi Tim: Did you treat that building with anything? Thanks

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Used a special stain mix Mike. Oil based. choose a color that will look good faded, as it will. Stay away from red.

[@anthonypiligno7618]

Good information 👍.... I never really thought about that..............JJ..

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks for watching!

[@Debtfreehomesteaders]

Very informational. Thank you for the school of thought on board movement. I learned something new today. -Will

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Hey Will, thanks man

[@jmccracken491]

Very god video .. love the horse at the gate.

[@erwinbrubacker7488]

Now I know ! I been desiring to build a barnett ,brd & batten. (Shed).

[@lyndamcardle4123]

Better to sort out any snagging jobs now before winter comes.....your scientific explanation regarding the timber (whether green or dry, its orientation when sawn and treatment is cogent) and your reasoning for your remedial action is very sensible. I know it would have been far more time-consuming but, I would have persevered and used screws instead of a nail gun. Easy for me to say and I know how difficult and energy sapping it is doing this stuck up a ladder! Nevertheless, good on you.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks Lynda. Should have used screws in the first place. I knew better

[@lyndamcardle4123]

@@GreatPlainsCraftsman Tim ....hindsight is such a wonderful thing....nevertheless and notwithstanding that (and your snagging)...it's such a fantastic achievement regardless.....and most of this done "solo"....I'm sure, like many others, that we are still in awe of this barn....!

[@thecordlesscarpenter7956]

Lessons learned... Thanks!

[@oldpup4810]

If wood were perfectly square and straight, it wouldn't be wood. :) Had to teach my 30+ year machinist father-in-law that one. :)

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Well said

[@michaelmcquaid456]

Thanks for the info!

[@jeffvlisides1518]

Seems like over thinking when we have the caulking possibilities we do in 2023. But nice barn!

[@davidgendron1953]

Pretty similar building as my shop I just finished a few months ago, Timber frame construction and boards and battens for siding. I did go with the hart wood facing out on the boards and the opposite for the battens (the idea was that each piece would cup into each other, if that make sense) anyway, I had about 1 3/4" between each boards, on each nailer(strapping) I first nailed a small filler block to give me more meat for the nail of the batten to hold on! It was time consuming to some extend, but I think it did the trick for the most part using domed head hand nails, would have worked even better using the ring nails you used!! My shop is fully insulated with home wrap on the outside(under the strapping) so even if I get some light gaps here and there it won't affect me like it does on your built! Nice barn and I hope you found a cure to your snow drifting problem!! Cheers

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thank you David!

[@iliamnafishco]

Hi David. I'd love to pick your brain about how you liked your heart orientation on the siding. If I'm using 1" thick 12" boards and 3" battens if I put the boards bark side out and battens bark side in so that the boards curl outward and screw the battens down- do you think that method might be preferable for a tight seal? I was considering nailing the 12" boards along one edge only, then screw the battens with 4" screws between the boards so that the boards are able to float on one side, but the battens hold them fast to the purlins. It has been so difficult to find solid advice on this.

[@davidgendron1953]

@@iliamnafishco I think it is supposed to be bark side in on the board and out on the batten, since the wood tend to cup naturally towards the heart( the hollow) so by having the center of the board going towards the building and the edges going towards the outside when you put the battens on top in the opposite way they kind of “hook” together… hope that make sense?

[@iliamnafishco]

Thanks David. Apparently the edges curl toward the bark side (away from the heart). So if I get what you’re saying- boards bark away from the building, battens bark toward the building so they ‘hook’ each other ?!

[@davidgendron1953]

@@iliamnafishco we’ll best way to know is to try them!

[@Z-Bart]

Great explanation.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks Ray

[@johnwilson3924]

What type of screws are you using?

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

4 inch ceramic decking screws

[@danryan3146]

Good information.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks Dan

[@jmac88022]

Seems no matter how you install them they would need tweaking. Hopefully that did the trick

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Yep I think so as well. Thanks!

[@boooshes]

My experience is that traditional board and batten construction is not air or water tight. Period. Lap siding is one step better because gravity is helping to keep water out. The more torturous the path, the better - some use board and board with narrow spacing so the path length is much greater. If you don't want a vapor barrier, I think you'll be satisfied with tighter joints and sealant. Hey, it's a barn. Best to you from the East coast.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks for the input. After I screwed the battens tight that solved 98 percent of the problem. Sealant took care of the rest. Still not air tight but should be much better. I agree, but you can't beat the look for a barn.

[@OffGridandWhiskey]

I went a little nuts and used Tuff Dog's Flexible Seal(Flex Seal) in clear and beaded all my bat/board seams. A house builder from Alaska told me it's the 'only' sealant to use. $6.99 per 10.2 oz tube.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks for the tip

[@kcc628]

I can't stop staring at his mustache 😅

[@danaskubic2145]

Great job, thanks for sharing Jim. Zippy is looking good. Give him a face rub from me.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Will do Dana. Thanks!

[@janettavculek9308]

Torx head screws are so much better. You don't bottom out or spin out before that screw is totally in. You would be amazed. I know, I had a job where I shot over 3000 screws daily. Have enjoyed your work and the beauty of your place.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Using torx head just got off on that one a bit and it spun. Thanks!

[@jamesoncross7494]

I was taught the the outside of the tree goes on the outside. It cups just like the tree grows. The exact opposite of what you said.

[@mountainviewturning5319]

Great ideal 👍

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thank you!

[@cwpetersonschannelofthings7785]

I'm not sure - but from the videos it looks like you only have one nail placed in the center of the battens. I was taught by my 3rd generation carpenter dad that you alway use two nails ... that way the edges of the wood are secured with the nails and it will help keep the edges from moving as much - esp if you are concerned with cupping. Additionally, fasteners should should be placed every 16" to 18" along the length of the board. This way the boards are locked in and won't be allowed to move to much. That's just my 2¢ ... well more like 5¢ and I hope that helps. I love the channel and look forward to future installments. Kind Regards, CW Peterson Grass Valley, (The sane portion) California; USA

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Yes CW, only one in the center. Battens are only 3" wide. On the timberframe members are at 2 ft. I should have oriented all boards so the inside of the tree was out. That way all cupping would be towards the frame. That solves all the problems.

[@cwpetersonschannelofthings7785]

@@GreatPlainsCraftsman Thanks for the reply ... ... I hope you and yours are fairing well. Is there a way to get a message to you outside of the public forum - I've a few questions for you about a couple of other things. CW Peterson

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

@@cwpetersonschannelofthings7785 [e-mail]

[@henryrodgers3409]

You screwed up when to put the boards up . I went back to your videos when you put the boards up . You left too much space between the boards . Rough sawn lumber . Well it shrinks . Now you have a really big space between the boards . Why didn't you put the boards tight together . Worried about expansion . Not with rough sawn lumber . Lumnah Acres put up a barn this summer with rough sawn lumber . He has no problem because he put his boards tight together . He also has had a lot of rain this year . I did the same 5 years ago . I also put 2 screws in where I screwed the battens on as well . Never heard of 3 1/4 nails not being enough to hold a piece of wood . I used 2 1/2 screws for the battens . My building has no leaking at all and it's 5 years old . Why would you leave so much space between the boards knowing that the wood is going to shrink ? Like you said in that video .... not enough nailers doesn't help either . Wood is going to flex .

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Hello Henry. 1/2 space between boards, pretty standard. Not that much! These boards were pretty dry to start with so the gap did not widen, I knew that when I installed them. Battens nailed with one nail in the center through the gap to prevent splitting, not 2 on each edge of the batten in the boards. So 1" batten plus 1" board thickness in the gap means 2" of the 3 1/4" batten nail is hitting nothing, only the last 1 1/4" is biting into the structure on 24" centers. Not sure what to tell you, the battens are not staying tight to the boards, but your thoughts are welcome! I'm dealing with it. Screws will hold them.

[@erwinbrubacker7488]

​@@GreatPlainsCraftsman😢 oh but the critisisim. Enjoy yer build.

[@treetopflyersofva2]

The good thing is you won't have to worry about carbon monoxide poisoning when inside the barn. A lot of old buildings and barns around here have old newspaper, grass or hay stuffed in the cracks. It's fun to pull out the old newspaper to see the date when it was printed. That's still one hell of a nice building.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks John!

[@richardgreen5602]

I know it won't meet you look,,,, BUT "Tyvek" type moisture/air intrusion will stop!

[@grupp61]

I designed and built a home that looks like a barn using Hardi board in sheets and Hardi battens. While I only had actual seams every 4' and had Tyvek over plywood sheathing, water could get in. After researching it I found that Elastomer sealant with Kraton G worked out well. Too late for your project, however I thought I would mention it.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Thanks! That would work, but stuck now with a fix. Good tip

[@mikes1345]

Why dont you just admit you have a ladder fetish. You just gotta keep going up! Lol. Its always the little things we gotta adjust where weather is concerned.

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

LOL I know! Wonder how many steps I have stepped..........................

[@ludvigtande1236]

Thankfully not a big problem. 👍

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

Not too bad. Thanks!

[@iliamnafishco]

I'm just laying out the board and batten siding I milled for my shop. What would you think of reverse board and batten like this: www.montanatimberproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/RL-Close-Up1.jpg. It just looks unique. Can you see reasons NOT to implement this?

[@GreatPlainsCraftsman]

It does look cool but I would bet that those are full boards behind not battens. I would be worried about water intrusion with this method probably.

[@reidsalmon5877]

I checked. They used 1x6 boards and 10” “battens”. I’ve been hearing this called “board on board”. In this case they left a 3” reveal so 1-1/2” of overlap per side. Any thoughts? I’m about to side in 2 weeks.

[@iliamnafishco]

@@GreatPlainsCraftsman could I ask you one more question? If I'm using 1" thick 12" boards and 3" battens if I put the boards bark side out and battens bark side in so that the boards curl outward and screw the battens down- do you think that method might be preferable for a tight seal? I was considering nailing the 12" boards along one edge only, then screw the battens with 4" screws between the boards so that the boards are able to float on one side, but the battens hold them fast to the purlins. It has been so difficult to find solid advice on this.