Fixing My Deer Rifle Accuracy Problems ... 2020 Deer Rifle Setup Pt1

[@Jeff_Seely]

Tom, thank you for the opportunity to receive your shared knowledge once again. I do enjoy the content. I have always free-floated my barrels to the width of a business card which I think it is about 15 thou. I am convinced that bedding and especially free-floating my barrels have given me more repeatability and accuracy than anything else I have done to my rifles. I have even sent four 28 Nosler bull barrels out to be cryo'ed to relieve presumed stress and I have not seen any marked improvements in accuracy for two of those barrels. Really great video Tom and I am privileged to have seen it!

[@rosswitte]

Great job! We have all been bewildered and behind.

[@NeSPyS]

The key to rifle accuracy always has been and always will be getting everything out of the way of the action and barrel so it can do what it does best. This includes the stock (properly fitting it like you did) and the shooter (using proper shooting technique). Even old rifles with “bad heat treat” are generally sub moa guns when you get everything out of the rifle’s way. Obviously there are exceptions. There is no doubt that your sporter barrel is supremely accurate. You just had to get everything out of its way! Great video, I have no doubt your channel will grow.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Peter! I did get to the range yesterday to start load testing. My shooting wasn't great but the rifle was doing it's part!

[@christopherkingsland4604]

I love your videos. Especially when it's an M70 that you're working on !!

[@adamelam6385]

I don't know what kind of quality control steps that Tikka has but the four I've owned and 3 I still do all of them are sub moa with factory ammo. They have a great thing going.

[@ronws2007]

I never thought of that. What an awesome solution to an aggravating problem. How many budget rifles could be become super-accurate with a little more clearance around the barrel and less torquing on the action by the actual stock?

[@cbsbass4142]

I'll check the barrel clearance on the Standard featherweight when it gets here. I got some 145 grain Speers, but they are Grand Slam, on the way. The Hot Cores weren't as much, but I already have a few Hornady 154 grain and 162 grain to try also. Got to pick a scope to mount....right now I may just swap one off. I have a low end Simmons Mil Dot I can try to start with. Too much spent getting ready for the Featherweight 7X57. Gonna try Leupold 2 piece mounts. Already have some rings for those.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I love the 145 gr for the extra velocity and the Grand Slams will work great. I got good accuracy from the 145 but I got my best accuracy with the 162gr but I decided to go with the 145s for the velocity. And I used mainly IMR and H4350 but I have been itching to try IMR 4166. It's almost identical to 4064 I just happen to have more of it than 4064 and the 4064 is definitely worth a try. My pet load for 308 is 4064 and 175gr Match Kings. That's also the load used by Army snipers for their 308 long range cartridge. So very accurate stuff and should work great. I'm also curious about Varget as well but haven'ttried it yet. And you will probably enjoying reading the article at balistics research.com on the 7x57? He has some good stuff and reading that made me realize that most of the new bullets are made for the 7mm mag and are to tough for the 7x57. It tends to do well with the old bullets that have been out forever because they were designed for the 7x57.

[@cbsbass4142]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving For some reason I never tried Varget. I used up all my IMR 4064, so not having any solves that problem. I saw the 4166 is right next to the 4064 in burn rate. I'll try to remember about the bullets. Have only tried 7977 and 4955, so far in other calibers. I'll read that article. Thanks, again.

[@denverwynn4]

Your videos, and your approach are great. Thank you for sharing you experiences. It isn’t just what you are saying, but how you are delivering it that adds to it’s conviction. Thank you for taking the time. If I had one question, it would be, how do you know how tight to make your action screws. I noticed that you weren’t using a torque wrench. Do you just subscribe to the German spec of goud’n tight? Thanks again.

[@rayray2061]

Love the rifle

[@jamesheath9385]

Perfect caliber for the Winchester.. My thought processes lean toward addressing possible simple problems, and there could be several. Afterwards I address more complex, read expensive, problems.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

That sounds very similar to my thought process. Explore the least expensive options first! LOL

[@jmartin9059]

*TOM. I am fairly certain that you would be aware of .... LONG THROAT CHAMBERS being typically more accurate with heavier ROUND NOSE BULLETS. HAWK bullets in New Jersey still make the Round Tip Bullets... For example: 175 grain 7mm .284" Round Tip 'among others'... and you might get a choice of jacket thickness. For deer hunts in the deep south... I might get the thinner jackets. Your animals are usually not as large as some of the beasts we might encounter, in other places.*

[@8126926]

I didn't think Minwax was more than a stain. A sealer too?

[@Eye_Guard]

A really good video. Thank You

[@scotthyde5946]

Well done sir ! How did it shoot !

[@matthewwysocki5019]

Thanks: how did it shoot?

[@robertmoore6700]

Good job Tom.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Robert

[@MrGuitars8]

Such a Great Video , I Learned Alot from you and thid video .

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I'm really glad I was able to pass on some information.

[@cbsbass4142]

For the 22 in. barrel, would you try IMR 4064 or something in the medium burn rate? I know the 4064 sure worked well with lighter 70 gr Nosler Ballistic tips in the 243. I was just thinking about the shorter barrel. I know a lot is said about case fill, but find that sometimes I get the best groups without filling the case. I just don't do compressed loads in any case.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I usually end up right at 2800 fps with IMR or H4350 for the 145gr Speer.

[@cbsbass4142]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Okay I have plenty of that too. Thanks.

[@cbsbass4142]

Watched a couple videos of Scott Tulloch---HighCountryHunter, reloading and hunting with a 7X57 in New Zealand. No way I could trudge up mountains. So...I guess I'll stay a flatlander at my age. His videos show some beautiful country though.

[@markpezenosky5592]

The thin barrel does make difference, it’s metal, all metal changes with heat

[@josecanisales3491]

Where is Part 2 of this video series? What's the name of the video?

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

The next video I did was "The Bullet Weight For Deer". It wasn't part 2 but I tested 2 different bullets in that rifle and you can see the results. But there will soon be a part 2. The wood kept moving in that stock and it has a very significant bend in it now from the warping but I just found and identical stock and I'm going to replace that one. I figure I need to do a video on that just to show some stocks can't be saved but they can be replaced.

[@ethanisaacson7860]

Sir would you happen to know what year that model 70 was manufactured in?

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I have called Winchester to verify but I believe 2013, but it could have been 2012. Hope that helps.

[@ethanisaacson7860]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Thank you very much it and that a beautiful rifle!!

[@martincorbitt1979]

Try a 788 Remington calibered in 308

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Actually I really want to try a 788 in 6mm Remington. I've always liked that cartridge and that would be a good one for a 788!

[@robertgothe4847]

I have a 788 in 6mm Remington. That thing is a shooter. I reload 100 grain Hornady over 43 grains of 760 . I can cover a three shot group with a quarter at 100 yards. It’s probably one of the best investments I ever made. I bought it from a friend . His wife used it until she quit hunting. $150.00 and it came with three magazines and a set of scope rings. He kept the scope. Lol. That was 30 years ago.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

@@robertgothe4847 Now that was a deal!

[@herbbrewer4441]

I hope you got back to work. God bless you.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thank you, and I did go back to work. My plant started back before most and I got back to work pretty quick. I was actually right in the middle of building some shop cabinets when my supervisor called. That project went from me just enjoying the process and building cabinets to I have to get this done and quick! And I sure was thankful to go back and to have a job.

[@DouglasPrice-p9q]

... if my HUNTING (not bench rest) rifles are giving me 2 accurate cold barrel first shots then I don't have an accuracy problem ... my HUNTING rifles have thin barrels and modest low power variable scopes (I'm not keen on mulling unnecessary iron thru the brush) and heating will no doubt have an effect on group size by the time the 3rd shot rolls around ... if the deer isn't down by the time the 2nd shot smoke clears it's probably long gone anyway ... my focus as a HUNTER is meat on the ground not 3-shot group size on paper ... 2 shots is usually one more than I need to accomplish that purpose

[@scotthyde5946]

Bed the action and free float the barrel !

[@jaywright2276]

your barrel doesnt heat up after 2 shots and the metal does not expand that much start reloading you have es and sd problems and maybe carbon rings

[@herbbrewer4441]

Do you make them gun stands. If so would you make me one and sale it to me

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Yes I made the gun stand, and I went through the basics on one of my early videos "Gun stand wood working project". And I would love to make you one but the one thing I don't have much of right now is time. I wouldn't even be able to make myself one right now if I wanted to. But you should try making one for yourself. And I think after deer season I'll make a video on how to make a gun stand out of just regular wood for anyone that's interested? I have a friend that really needs one and he's wanting to build a simple but solid stand. I could just film us making him one.

[@herbbrewer4441]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving i will go and watch the video. Thank you

[@danielsbackforty8094]

Yesr

[@keithprinn720]

so the manufacturer failed big time and didnt apply decent quality control. this is why quality performance sports cars are driven as part of the testing before release to buyer. I know the pleasure of your efforts, thinking and solving skills. Just one reason why proven rifles are no longer as they were made sixty years ago.

[@jaywright2276]

plus that is a cheap stock no metal in it get a chassis or stock with metal in it

[@jamesheath9385]

After you relieve the stock, I recommend rubbing beeswax and melting it into the stock/barrel track. Helps stabilize it and cuts down stock warpage in humid climates. I did that with my heavy model 70 in the Marine Corps.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

For this one I used a couple of coats of Minwax to seal it but that is a great idea on the bee's wax and that goes along with the old oil finished rifles. I know many waxed their rifles with oil finishes and now you have me wondering how many of them used bee's wax for their wax? I suspect an awful lot of them.

[@johnbuck6685]

Just trade it in for a 243 ruger model 77 and save the time and money you don’t have anything worth owning when your done unless you want to hunt gophers in the spring

[@tomlarue654]

I’m gonna have to try this on my Mossberg

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I hope it helps?

[@ronws2007]

I have a Mossberg Patriot .308 Win that I have not shot much. It has the black poly stock. I have ordered a chassis and skeleton but stock and pistol grip from MDT. It's got a v-shape channel and other than the recoil lug and the action screws, there is not much contact and it will allow the barrel to float free like this example. Plus having an adjustable cheek and an aftermarket pad on an adjustable length of pull should be supercomfortable. I did something similar with my AR-10. It came with a carbine tube and telescoping stock and I changed to a rifle tube and a Magpul PRS Gen III adjustable stock and that gun is super-comfortable and cushy. And sub-MOA accurate. I mean sub-MOA as in hitting right in the very center of the target sheet, my intended point of aim and impact (I was sighting in a new scope) at 100 yards. And this was after the barrel was already warm with about 15 rounds (grouping, etcetera.) I was going to be happy with 1 MOA.

[@johnbuck6685]

Take it from a pro and just trade it for a 243 or 270 the cartridge is worthless you’ll thank me a hundred times over when you get in the field

[@lmbear]

No "rhyme or reason"?? I strongly disagree. A rifle is a mechanical device. The foundation of accuracy/precision in a rifle is the bedding. Winchester has never properly glass bedded their rifles. They have been using the hot glue type of bedding material since the late 70's and it is garbage. Secondly, like you pointed out, is the barrel freefloating. Most winchester model 70's are not properly freefloated. The reason for these issues is they are not custom rifles. They are a mass produced rifle. They will always react to a proper glass bedding job and freefloat. Couple that with proper mounting of the scope bases and rings. Proper alignment is key. Keeping your scope mounted low for proper eye alignment is also key. Your scope is mounted too high. You should also not be pounding your action out of the stock like you demonstrated. Very poor practice: sooner or later you are going to damage that stock. Now back to the mechanics of a rifle. You can also fine tune your trigger. Polish out the sear engagement areas. You want minimal creep and a very smooth crisp let off. A good hunting rifle should have a pull weight of around 2.5 pounds for utmost precision. Your BACO rifle trigger would greatly be benefitted by a erniethegunsmith trigger spring. When all the mechanicals are taken care of, you then progress on to load development if you are concerned about ultimate precision. A rifle like yours with a good load, should be capable of 1 moa 10 shot groups, not moa 3 shot groups. Your check with 2 dollar bills folded in half is excellent. That's just about right. Don't forget about those mounts though. They should be aligned and blue loctited down. When you check for accuracy it should also be done with a "proven" scope. This stuff is not hard or complicated. Just stuff that should be checked over on every new rifle you get. You have some good videos. They are a little slow paced, but good nonetheless...