Fixing my RF45 milling machine (noisy gearbox)

It was time to do something about that annoying rattle.

[@bobweiram6321]

KZbin's criminally underrated channel! It should be on every machinist's subscription.

[@joell439]

Bob, I couldn’t agree more. I love watching Andy’s work. 👍👍😎👍👍

[@thosoz3431]

Have recently bought the same machine second hand, it's also noisy. This gives me a fantastic reference noise levels to work from and clear instructions for the job. Thank you so much from Melbourne Australia.

[@hpevans9041]

Couldn’t agree more, most underrated engineering channel on KZbin

[@juhavuorinen3945]

I have similar optimum mb4 machine, and it was rather quiet

[@Jimmy_McGinty]

Im not even a machinist. 😅

[@bernhard_derProtoTyp]

wow! that grease trick to remove the bearing! never seen this! my RF45 clone needs some love soon too and seeing all this before disassembling my mill is extremely helpful! thanks a ton!

[@AndysMachines]

This is an old and very useful trick that few people seem to know about. Apparently it also works well with bread instead of grease, but I've never tried that!

[@wizrom3046]

Great job! 👍 A suggestion; instead of grease for bearing removal trick, try fresh white bread. It is soft enough to flow behind the bearing to push it out, but thick enough that it wont ooze out through the bearing seal like the grease did.

[@AndysMachines]

I've heard of people using bread, I've never tried it myself but I suppose it must have a similar consistency to greasy paper towel.

[@jacknissen6040]

???

[@gregwmanning]

Welldone Andy. Nice tip about removing the flush bearing, thanks

[@Tezza120]

Your hydraulic lock bearing removal method was pretty impressive.

[@ThisDesignedThat]

sounds MUCH better, great job

[@nafex3740]

Well done my Friend !!! Great work 👍👍

[@dixonmcklacker6210]

thank you so much for this. My HM48 is making the before sound. : ( I now have a plan thanks to you. : )

[@gyrogearloose1345]

Top quality vid. Thanks Andy!

[@chrismayer8990]

6:00 That's a really good life hack! 👍 Nice video and great work!

[@RustyInventions-wz6ir]

Very nice work. I’m looking into maybe buying a mill like this myself in the future as it is quite affordable. Thanks this will be helpful I’m sure.

[@Engineerd3d]

It's amazing what a decent set of bearings and some care can do for a machine. Congratulations on fixing the machine. Excessive noise ruins the fun that can be had in a shop, the smoother a machine the better the operator feels.

[@thomasstover6272]

Good video, Andy! Thanks!

[@dougmorgan6616]

Great bearing removal technique for that blind bearing.

[@JaenEngineering]

Id say the before and after sound are significantly different. Definitely sounds a lot smoother after.

[@balloney2175]

Yeah!!! Like a brand new one.

[@markamy357]

I too found those seals mashed up and that was on a new machine, and there were some rough bearings, possibly the worst thing but easily fixed was that my motors shaft was too long and by bolting down the motor there was much longitudinal force applied, They can’t make them fast enough, still you largely get what you pay for.

[@pawekowalski7469]

👍👍👍Good job! I also have such a milling machine of "Polish"😀 Chinese production MTP ZX 7045B, I bought a new one from the manufacturer and I had to correct it, delete loose, etc., I undressed the whole. Now it works properly. With these Chinese machines it depends on how to get. The channel has been subscribed for a long time, you convey very valuable content. Greetings from Poland. Revelacin case with you with a grease bearing👍👍 Dobra robota! Też mam taką frezarkę "Polskiej" Chińskiej produkcji MTP ZX 7045B , kupiłem nową od producenta i musiałem ją poprawiać, kasować luzy itp, rozbierałem całą. Teraz działa prawidłowo. Z tymi chińskimi maszynami to zależy jak się trafi. Kanał subskrybuje od dawna, przekazujesz bardzo wartościowe treści. Pozdrawiam z Polski. Rewelacyna sprawa z ty wypychniem łożyska smarem

[@Dyspnea44]

Thank you for your video. Recently acquired the same mill as yours, mine lacked some basic maintenance as well, at least it in great condition overall. I like your Z axis dro solution. I will plan to do the same to my mill.

[@jimsvideos7201]

It's always gratifying to find definite problems with definite solutions.

[@glennwright9747]

I had similar problems! When I took mine apart I got about a spoonful of sand out! One gear cluster was damaged. I gambled on Grizzly parts being the same and got lucky. All new bearings and seals, de-burred all the parts and replaced the sliding keys. Much quieter and gears easy to change now.👍

[@AndysMachines]

Yes, I've heard of people finding sand from the casting process still inside the head! Mine seemed quite clean. The bearings in mine were all metric but I believe some have imperial bearings fitted.

[@glennwright9747]

@@AndysMachines on my machine, bearings were all metric. For the quill I paid a little extra for higher precision bearings. I don’t know if it was worth it, or when I assembled I got the slack out.

[@mohammed40914]

Great work

[@brandontscheschlog]

Nice job. I’ll be doing the same using your video. Thanks.

[@genemcintyre5352]

You made that look easy, though I know it is not, but it is doable. Thank you

[@the_real_randall]

Thanks! I have a RF45 mill and this was highly educational! My mill is still running well. I bought it used as well, and yes my spindle seal leaks. It is annoying but I just top off the machine everyone once in a while and I keep a small container under the spindle when not in use to collect the drips.

[@AndysMachines]

These seals leaking seems to be a common problem, unfortunately they are not accessible without quite a bit of work so I lived with mine like this for a while too.

[@the_real_randall]

@@AndysMachines Thanks for the response! I figure it helps me keep the oild fresh, just top it off and wait for it to leak out, rinse, repeat :)

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

A little maintenance can go a long way. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.

[@paradiselost9946]

lol, mine sat for about five years at the leaky corner of a shed... motor bearings, and ever bearing inside... kachoonk kachoonk... oh, how it howled... tore down, replaced em all... much nicer. shame about teh manufacturing defect on shaft II running down the keyways... nasty big crack, from before it was ground... sorta contemplate brutal things, one big one i think is the quill itself... get the casting, line bore it with a taper and throw a brass sleeve in there, some sort of "gib" to take up any slack. there is nothing but machining tolerance on that fit! i got the friday model... and maybe, iunno... beef up teh gearbox shafts. might have to pull it down again. it was teh third strip down that i realised the quill can just drop out. well dah... omfg, try assembling all the bearings etc from the top! you can, but that last circlip is a nightmare...

[@LordOfTamarac]

Really nice job, love all the videos

[@andyb7963]

Someone crashed that mill, keys will shear instead of breaking gears, far cheaper to fix, nice job

[@AndysMachines]

It really wouldn't surprise me if they did.

[@billdoodson4232]

My similar mill uses a 68 grade hydraulic oil. A 75-90 seems very heavy. Will help cut down on noise though.

[@AndysMachines]

From the research I did that seemed to be the recommended grade so I just ordered 5 litres of it. It looks the same consistency as what came out.

[@glennmoreland6457]

1000 times better When I saw it I thought it were a rough arsed little thing happen you improved it.... ☹🇬🇧

[@ManicSalamander]

Can confirm the value of new bearings. Have the smallest JET lathe from late '90's. Belt drive and no gears involved in spindle drive, so the potential for noise is less. Still, from the start there was a kind of rushing noise whenever the spindle was rotating. At a certain point the lathe stalled because the bearings had overheated (I guess at the clearances I was running on the tapered bearings, 2000RPM caused runaway heat). I found new Timken replacements. The loudest noise left was the hum of the motor. It was a revelation. I still avoid the highest speed though. I would need to loosen the bearings a little to work it.

[@pauloaparicio7899]

Great job!

[@xanitoxanito193]

👏🏻👏🏻👍 Good job.

[@eveningecho5334]

Andy, did you see “made in Poland” latest vid, he uses a car air conditioning compressor to salvage an electrically controlled clutch so he can electronically control drive to a hydraulic pump. Interesting cheap available clutch. Might be if use in your projects

[@AndysMachines]

No, I haven't seen this one, but I like his videos and have watched many of them. I'll have to check it out, thanks.

[@thosoz3431]

I have the same machine. Also second hand. Its a great upgrade from my previous round column, belt drive mill. But it also has a bit of bearing noise Now I have a reference point for that, also for gearbox lash, and an instruction manual for a rebuild if I need it. Pure KZbin gold. Thank you so much from Melbourne Australia. P.S. The reader hidden behind the face plate deserves a separate video. How did you extend the gear levers ? Very clever, very neat.

[@AndysMachines]

When I got the machine the gear change levers screwed into a chromed steel rectangular piece that attached to the actual gear change arm. I just removed these and made longer cylindrical parts (black in my video).

[@thosoz3431]

@@AndysMachines Thanks Andy

[@richb419]

Hi Andy, I have my mill apart (very similar to yours), it was leaking a lot, mostly when I changed the oil. when I took it apart the I noticed that the casting in the quill bore is very porous. my question is did the seal replacement stop your leak? I'm thinking mine was leaking through the casting more than the seals. Rich

[@AndysMachines]

It did stop it completely for a while, but now it seems to have come back. I used to have 2 or three drips of oil on the table every morning, now I get maybe 1 per week.

[@richb419]

@@AndysMachines Andy, I noticed that the seals seem to be drying out (marks on the drive gear) after sitting for a while then when you turn it on, I think it tears it a bit. I thought I would put some Teflon grease between them to keep them lubed. Rich

[@moinky2k]

Neat great trick! Thanks 👍

[@harleythyer6327]

On the gearbox lids there is two plastic caps you need to break but smashing a screw driver into and pull out, then you can tap the bearings out. That's how you get the top off without all the gears attached to anyone doing this.

[@AndysMachines]

Not on mine, the holes that don't go all the way through are just blind from the inside.

[@jasonneedham6734]

Beaut.😮

[@neffk]

I like your quill scale arrangement. I did the same but somehow managed to stuff out in without spacer. It's probably a minor point but I don't like to see scales obviously bolted on wherever.

[@AndysMachines]

When I got the machine the Z scale was just bolted on the front of the cover (by the previous owner), that's why there are holes in it, and it was connected to the quill by a really sketchy arrangement of bits of aluminium angle!

[@the_real_randall]

I like this idea as well. Very nice addition.

[@WilliamChitham]

Is it common to find sealed bearings in an oil filled gearbox?

[@AndysMachines]

Only 3 of the 8 were actually in the oil and it's probably cheaper just to use all the same type.

[@chrismate2805]

I have similar machine new, would say its noisy compared to new 330 lathe, however with earprotection it sounds ok. I have not try to do anything to it, it seems to mill good enough, stable milling, chips dont vibrate on work.

[@AndysMachines]

I think these machines just are louder due to the straight cut gears in the gearbox, compared to say a brushless DC belt drive machine, but I like the manual gearbox as you still have full power and plenty of torque at low rpm.

[@redgum1340]

This is a great video and I'm glad I found it. I just bought a ZAY 7045FG and looks very much like this machine apart from the switch box in front. I have an issue that the spindle/milling tool vibrate and move around quite a bit when in use. Nice and smooth just spinning round without any load on it but vibrates when in use. Even a small 4mm end mill will vibrate on soft mild steel. It's horrible, never seen anything like it. If I go to a 12mm end mill tool, the whole machine vibrate around. The Head, the Table, everything. Does yours do that as well? I'd love a few suggestions. HELP!

[@AndysMachines]

Sounds like the spindle bearings need adjustment? If you remove the spindle (it will drop out of the bottom if you remove the quill feed shaft) there should be a nut at the top to preload the bearings. Drain the oil first and tilt the head on its side.

[@redgum1340]

@@AndysMachines Many thanks for replying. The Quill feed shaft? Is that the large rotating handle on the RHS? Your saying to remove that assembly and the spindle will drop out? Sorry but I've never done anything like this and it's my 1st Milling machine and I'm an old bloke. LOL

[@redgum1340]

@@AndysMachines I'm just thinking, if the spindle was loose, wouldn't it move if I tried to move it, by hand, without having the machine in operation? I've done that and I am not able to feel or see any movement at all and I'm using all the strength I have. No movement either laterally or vertically. I am not a serious engineer but I am mystified. Overall, I tend to agree with you regarding the spindle bearings not having the correct tension but is there anything else you can think of that might be causing my issue? Anything to do with the quill perhaps?

[@AndysMachines]

Have you tried putting a dial indicator on it? Attach it to the table and put the plunger/stylus on a tool in the spindle. Pushing against the quill/toolholder you should be able to deflect it a small amount but it should spring back to where it was. Try also pushing on the table instead. If it's not the spindle bearings it might be the table gib strips. Note that there will be some backlash in the screws so try locking the X axis and see if you can move the table lengthwise, then try with the Y (only) locked pushing front to back. To get the spindle out (from memory) you need to remove the clockspring on the left hand side, then I think if you remove the fine feed wheel/housing and unscrew the clutch handwheel in the centre of the 3 quill levers, then the whole shaft will slide out allowing the spindle/quill to drop out of the bottom. LOCK the quill first! So that it doesn't fall. To actually remove it you will probably have to tilt the head on it's side, you may want to drain the oil first (though in fact I think it shouldn't run out through the spindle if the seals are good).

[@lahoz84]

@@redgum1340 must be a dumb question, but did you check if the endmill is rotating on correct direction? Maybe the motor wires/leads is switched

[@mathdoc204]

Awesome guide for this type os milling machine, thanks! Have you ever taken a look at the spindle bearings?

[@AndysMachines]

I did tighten them up when I first got the machine, there is an adjusting nut at the top (you can see it at 02:37). It wasn't even finger tight.

[@hamzehmomani6682]

This is extremely helpful. I wonder if you have a copy of the machine manual?

[@AndysMachines]

No, I don't have a copy of the manual. All I could find online was an exploded diagram of the gearbox (for spare parts ordering purposes). It was a case of take it apart to find out what's wrong.

[@ipadize]

10:01 pro tip: hold the canister 90° sideways or even upside down so air can get better inside

[@AndysMachines]

But then I couldn't use the glug-glug sound effect!

[@richb419]

Hi Andy, I have a very similar machine and always hated where they placed the DRO. it looks like you have solved the problem. did you make a video for that mod? Rich

[@AndysMachines]

The DRO on mine was fitted by the previous owner, not the machine supplier. He did an ok job of fitting the display unit, on an arm high up on the column). But all the scales were fitted very poorly. The X and Y scales were bolted into the table lock holes! So the first thing I had to do with the machine was make new table locks for it (he just threw away the originals).

[@richb419]

@@AndysMachines thanks Andy

[@CatNolara]

So most of the noise came from the damaged key? Wonder if it was made from a proper material or just some chinesium mild steel. Don't know what material the keystock you used usually is, but it's definitely a good idea to use some higher quality steel for that key. Since it has to sit a little loose for the gears to be able to slide it's prone to wear faster as if it was tight.

[@AndysMachines]

I think most of the noise and certainly most of the backlash was due to the key. Key steel is normally harder but this key was pretty chewed up and the shaft didn't seem damaged, so I think the original key was just a piece of square mild steel.

[@martinchabot_FR]

Nice modification for the scale, taking notes for my RC7055 which is similar. Is it a 1600rpm machine? mine is 3200rpm and is painful at this speed, otherwise ok. Just a note, why using 2RS bearing in oil bath? I found out on my lathe that they will leach grease in the oil, and from there it's a mess, so I went with open bearing in oil, and use 2RS with seal removed on the oil side. Way better and less drag.

[@AndysMachines]

Yes it's 1600rpm max with a single speed 4-pole motor. Some of these machines have a 2 speed motor giving up to 3200rpm. All the bearings were RS type and I just replaced them with similar, only 3 of them are actually in the bottom of the oil bath, the rest are above the fill level.

[@joansparky4439]

sealed bearings protect the bearings from any debris that appears in the gearbox overtime..

[@balloney2175]

The previous owner is not a 'handy' man.

[@balloney2175]

SUCCESS!!!

[@malbirrell]

You didn't replace the spindle bearings ?

[@AndysMachines]

The spindle is easily removed without opening the gear box, but the bearings didn't require attention anyway.

[@prodigalson2670]

I have the same machine, I mean its different name and color but it came from same factory in Asia, 6 months is and already I have same spindle gearbox oil leak.

[@Smartzenegger]

Wow, that is very nicely resolved. Can you do car gearboxes too?

[@AndysMachines]

I've taken a couple apart, but I've never had to put one back together!

[@Smartzenegger]

@@AndysMachines So maybe you can help WhistlinDiesel with making him a strong enough gearbox/transfercase for his Monster Max project?

[@ColCurtis]

If the bolts are blind holes the sealant should go around the bolts on the inside

[@AndysMachines]

Makes sense now I think about it, they are blind holes and if they fill with oil tightening the bolt can hydraulically fracture the casting. I just redid the sealant how it had been done in the first place, the oil level does not actually come up this high unless you tilt the head

[@johnsherborne3245]

It’s curious, who ever made the machine in the first place cut so many corners and the result is your and others experience, yet not a lot makes so much difference.

[@IrenESorius]

👍‍‍👍‍‍

[@alessandrogiansanti5408]

👍

[@SergeiPetrov]

ER (energy releaser) Antifriction Metal Conditioner

[@dev-debug]

I had the sight glass leak on my RF-45 when it was brand new, was not seated properly. Not really a big deal but geez some quality contrrol would be nice. It's my understanding the Taiwan companies lets the castings age longer which apparently is good but I never understood why ?? Pretty sure they get the raw castings from China though. I had a Chinese mill and sold it within the first year, it really was horrible, so much slop in Z that it chattered like crazy. The Taiwan made mill is much nicer.

[@AndysMachines]

"seasoning" the castings for some time before machining lets the internal stresses even out so that when they are machined they warp less and things line up better. They are usually left outside in the weather and the sun and rain helps to age them by constantly cycling the temperature.

[@danielhuber7402]

bonjour j ai la meme machine que toi ,je souhaite changer les roulements de la broche (2) et les roulements de la boite de vitesse (8) par des S K F peux tu me donner les réferences merci d avance

[@AndysMachines]

Mine had 3 different sizes (6003x4, 6202x1 and 6007x3). But I know that some machines have different sized bearings fitted so yours might not all be the same.

[@danielhuber7402]

@@AndysMachines ok merci

[@Flygtraktor]

Why use sealed bearings inside an oil filled gearbox?

[@AndysMachines]

Probably because the grease in the bearings is different to the oil for the gears, but only some of them were sealed, and some only on one side.

[@mafing3r895]

Terminator?

[@AndysMachines]

There'll be more Terminator coming soon!

[@Shaikh_78621]

Hai

[@guzmansantosaronibarrrios7159]

El problema era la barra de la chaveta , para seguridad se pudo asegurar ahi con 2 pernos , yo pienso k igua se movera en lo posterior