Fixing Payday 3

[@TheKknowley]

Minutes before this video was due to go live to Patrons and Channel members, the community team put out an important post. It's linked here: www.paydaythegame.com/news/payday3/2024/01/plans-going-forward/ I'm now going to implore you, personally, to drop your feedback as soon as possible. If you agree with what I'm saying here, echo that. If you have your own ideas for how to improve the game, be vocal about them. They know the game is in a rough spot. Heads are out the sand and they're serious about doing something about it. Please take this opporunity seriously to assist in shaping the game.

[@InternalPotatoad]

Bro times travelled 50 minutes into the past to post and pin this comment, the dedication is crazy 🎉🔥👍

[@ONRealNO]

Honestly this post by them just makes me more disappointed, we are 4-5 months into the game and we are just now getting not substantial improvements or content, we are getting a message that people are working on a plan to implement maybe probably hopefully something in the future. I thought this was supposed to be a live service game, where is the live in this service?

[@Bay1k]

Times for genuine feedback is long passed. But I am gonna do this one last time. Mio's resource management style loud gameplay that he is talking about, doesn't exist in the game. Yes resource management on loud doesn't exists. Ammo boxes the cops drop have no limit and completely client-sided, so one cop killed means everyone in the team can pick it up for 4 times the value, health is completely irrelevant so this only leaves the game with armour management, which is easy to handle if you spend 2 skill points. That's not resource management gameplay if you are only really worried about one thing. Mio's claims on twitter makes me question if he even plays his own game and is he even being genuine with his claims. Not to mention armour tanks soo much that it kills any tension you can have in the game. It is basically a huge hp bar that takes forever to deplete even on overkill, but not having it is basically throwing. Losing armour on pdth and ds feels more tense because your health is exposed to damage, which is what matters. That's with the armour regeneration. And if Mio wants to take inspiration for a resource management type of loud design, he only really needs to look at PDTH. In PDTH you manage health, your ammo, and your reloads, which is more things to manage than pd3 at the moment. So here is a concise list of things that should be done for the health of the base loud gameplay; 1- sacrifice the armour management for health and ammo management. This means lower armour, but more health and a limit on ammo boxes dropped my the cops with actual sync between clients so 4 times ammo value stops being a thing. This alone puts medic bags and ammo bags as priority items, which is more than just armour bag stacking. 2- consistent rules for weapon attachments; the new DLC guns already do stuff with ammo pickup values with mag attachments than the base game guns don't. With base game guns, bigger mag means lower pickup, DLC guns does the opposite. 3- simplify gun and cop damage. Ap as a system is just badly implemented and poorly balanced. What they have done is just take pd2 weapon damage tiers and slap ap on it haphazardly which opens the gap gap between classes even more than pd2. Yes I am aware this requires a complete rethinking on cop damage as well, but let's be honest here; the loud is unfinished and in it's concept state at best. That's what happens when you make a game of payday's signature expected nuance in 2 years. I have more issues with the gameplay like movement and stance restrictions but those aren't major issues so I am not gonna type them here. I wouldn't have staged animation states to play one after another but give priority to some actions over others, like ads for example. Currently when you wanna go from sprint to ads, you have to wait for sprinting animation to finish, which puts the gun further on the screen and then wait for ads animation to bring the gun closer to your view. It just looks awful and feels clunky.

[@Cincinnatus-]

Everything on FeatureUpvote - the site that they are telling us to go towards for suggestions and feedback - has been ignored, or has been addressed with complete non-answers such as "it's on the table, we are looking into it", etc. Feels like a massive slap in the face.

[@dragonlord4898]

So fun fact about the DRM: it was bypassed within 48 hours. It only took so long because the servers were down so much In other words, there is now LITERALLY no benefit to the online only

[@plebisMaximus]

I pretty much only play solo, so losing crimenet and all the lobby features isn't huge to me, but losing bot customisation, crime spree and obviously offline play was devastating. PD2 was not only perfectly playable, but a very different and really fun experience on your own compared to with a crew, while PD3 seems to actively hate its solo players, screwing us over in every single way it possibly can. Oh yea and fuck the UI, that needs fixing ASAP.

[@Unknown_Genius]

Yeah, but it took its sweet time to get to that point where it was enjoyable solo. The way I feel for PD3 is that people "forget" that they never release a solid product and it shapes up over years. Could they have done better? Certainly. If they'd have had the funds and didn't have to make an arbitrary always on mode to get the money to finish the game. I feel like they should've either released further paid DLC's for PD2 (no matter how much the community hated it) and further developed PD3 on their own until they actually think its finished on their own accord, or released follow up titles instead of a ton of DLC to slowly improve the franchise instead of getting one game to an absolute high after 10 years just to fall flat with the sequel which will take 5 years to reach that point for its respective gameplay loop one way or the other.

[@Kirbizard]

Saaame. Played Payday 2 close to launch, but only really got super into it after they improved the bots a few years ago. I was expecting 3 to at least meet that baseline, so it's unfortunate it neglected solo players so much. Although despite being primarily solo, having a proper browser or quickplay is still the most important thing they can add right now. The majority playerbase is multiplayer and it's being split up between heists and difficulties that gets worse with each new heist they add. If adding content is making the game *worse* that needs fixing URGENTLY.

[@arenndups5294]

​@@Unknown_Geniusyeah honestly it really needed more time in the oven. But the fact that over the ten years of development at payday 2, it just sounds so absurd to me that they forgot all the lessons their playerbase taught them. Its such a big dissapointment and I'm not surprised that the players that put up with their dissapointing actions like their absurd amount of dlcs left the Starbreeze train.

[@Unknown_Genius]

@@arenndups5294 What exactly did the playerbase teach them tho? That we're gonna buy DLCs regardless? Just look at the amount of DLCs that released after they wanted to sell no more DLCs - and regardless of that they still had to sign a deal for 50 million to finish the game. That being 50m for "finishing" the game, adding always on as part of the deal (so not really "finishing the game" but changing the entire system which got perfectly shown on day 2 of release where someone managed to just debug an offline mod that worked with all heists apart of the last added heist) and supporting it for 18 months. If we learned anything from PD2 it's that they slowly turn a... not that great product into something better, but I honestly can't tell where they learned anything from us. Because all they did is add features that they wanted to add (and which brought them the most attention and money) and turn the game away from the original recipe into an entirely different gameplay loop. They'd have overall done better with fixing up PD2 back then (including keeping the original gameplay loop), releasing PD3 in between with the loop PD2 got nowadays, and now have PD4 with its respective loop. The way I see it we're in the same Situation as back then: PD2 was... a way worse release honestly and it almost died, so they gave out a million free copies thanks to which it survived. They'll do something similar with PD3 at the end of the day, and if it survives and brings in as much money it'll most likely be the same with the title after. Only thing I know is that if it happens and they change the base gameplay loop again I won't buy any of their products until the end of its life cycle anymore.

[@The0nlyy]

The talent tree is Payday 3 is god awful and incredibly shallow compared to PD2, and no excuses you make for the developers will make me forgive them.

[@woblewoble]

As sympathetic to the devs as I am as a fellow developer, and as optimistic as I am about the future of PD3 with its core mechanical/gameplay foundation being solid and strong to build upon, at this point I have to admit that the game just wasn't ready to launch. It probably would have been better to release it as an Early Access title. It's not just the continuous server and matchmaking issues, but the gameplay and features just aren't quite *there* yet. They can say "but X wasn't there when PD2 launched" all they want (heck, I've done that), but at some point we have to ask "then what were you building off of?". I can respect wanting to go "back to basics", but that only works when you *include* the basics, like text chat on PC, quick play, and interaction animations. Adding them in later patches doesn't make them game-changing additions people want to jump back in for, they're just bringing the game up to par with what it should have been. It's like they started with too clean a slate and don't know what to write down.They're deferring to what the players want so much, it sounds like they themselves don't really know what they want the game to be and are too scared to try anything, resulting in large baby steps; changes and additions to skills, enemies, AI, etc... but ultimately nothing that really bolsters the core gaming experience. I'm still optimistic about the game's future. Like I said, the game mechanics and game loop are really solid and have a bunch of room to expand. It's just a matter of if they'll have the time and ability to do so.

[@flamingscar5263]

the problem with early access is that the consoles dont allow it, Ive been a big defender that the game releasing on console is its biggest issue, Im not some PC elitest that looks down on console players, but its just that Sony and Microsoft are just the worst to deal with, many of the issues with updating the game have come from Sony and Microsofts garbage system they put forward where they decide when your games update is ready, not you, unlike steam where devs can just update whenever they want, not to mention how corrupt this system is where companies like starbreezehave to wait possibly weeks to get their update greenlit where as a company like activision or Epic which draw in a bunch of money can hit update seemingly whenever they want the game should have came out as an early access PC game first, then came to consoles once 1.0 dropped

[@Leap623]

​@@flamingscar5263Consoles don't allow early access? Then why did Palworld just release onto Xbox in early access?

[@jglaboratory]

It'd probably just gonna tank. I'll stay on 1 and 2

[@flamingscar5263]

@@Leap623 it's not an official early accsess, it's a "game preview" This is technically a demo before the full game releases, not an offical early accsess program Plus that's only 1 of the consoles

[@DisDatK9]

I absolutely agree. Idk if they just didnt have the funding to continue PD3 development to completion or if it was a publisher call but they absolutely released an unfinished game. In my opinion, you cant just release a sequel with none of the accessibility or QOL improvements from the previous game. Thats not only lazy, but it just goes completely against the idea of a sequel to begin with. They made PD3 as if PD2 didnt exist, and the only criticism they took in was complaints from within the first year of PD2's release. Its not even close to a sequel in terms of outside the story, its more of a very unfinished reimagining concept

[@pyroninja]

I mostly play alone and occasionally play with friends for context, I agree with basically all of your points in terms of what needs to be added, even while I don't play online often I know that is key for many people. I think again the thing I would like to see most is just more variety in build style. More overkill weapons, more diverse skill trees. More diverse weapon play styles. While I love the gunplay and this is a go too game for mindless joy of grinding, with more variety in builds makes it so when I play with friends it feels like we all have a unique style instead of all being the same. I have a lot of fun while playing and I do genuinely enjoy the game, but for long term we need the ability to make new builds that actually feel different

[@Are_you_serious1]

How the hell did you type this so quickly

[@shesh2265]

@@Are_you_serious1probably a channel member that got to see the video early

[@prodthedirtybunny]

Fixing the matchmaking system and making it to how the lobby system was is the only thing that can get me to return None of my friends play payday 3 so 9/10 times I’m usually stuck with the dumb bot teammates

[@codyeakinsbradley]

Unfortunately the one this that I want would require a whole new game. The damn skill line shit is uninspiring and needs to go

[@bagusprayogo7025]

​@@codyeakinsbradley I guess u gonna need Aced Inspire, eh? *_wink wink_*

[@Loki_T2013]

I just hate messing something up and realizing mid loading, but when I cancel matchmaking with a group of friends I have to reinvite them/they reinvite me instead of just halting. Also the fact I'll work on a load out and go to use it. One made for armor survivability. But the game keep my stealth one equip because I hadnt pushed "equip" despite switching to a different load out has caused a few mission changes. Granted partially a me issue but if I'm working on loadout 4 I think I want to use that instead of load out 3

[@xthijsbos6811]

​@@codyeakinsbradleyskill line is good

[@ProfSplendorFaction]

Making the game not live service would make the game instantly 80% better

[@masterseeker360]

not making the game would make would make the game instantly 80% better

[@Arictis]

You know pd2 is live service right? Lol how the hell would that fix anything. The game wouldnt even get updated

[@ProfSplendorFaction]

@Arictis it's not entirely live service it actually has a designated single player mode unlike PD3 and you don't need an internet connection to be able to play the game at all.

[@Goldieleaf]

I played payday the heist for the first time, and I loved it and it made me realize how much payday 3 could use the regenerating armor payday 2 had. They already said they had a idea for armor that could technically never break, but if it does break you need a armor plate to recover it, which I think is great to give people what they want as well as still making use of the games already existing mechanics.

[@daedalus6433]

But nah, the game designer be like "jUsT tAkE cOvEr"

[@manboy4720]

@@daedalus6433 as the game throws 10 billion cops on top of you.

[@trumpeterswan8175]

If they were to implement that "ultimate skill" idea, I'd love to see them have tangible effects on what you can do, rather than just really big buffs. Give escapists an increase mantle, allowing them to go over chain-link fences and walls. Have demolitionist turn all explosives into cluster bombs, or have infiltrator knifes home in on cops. The grifter could scan executives faces to bypass facial scanners, or have scramble be able to full on control drones and move them around freely. Or just give medics inspire and ammo specialists bullet storm. stuff like that would make each heister have a roll and specialize in unique ways(use my escapists example to put sentry on a high roof as an example.) and increase the replay value of the game.

[@doot7730]

This is a really fucking good idea. I also really really want more drone like abilities

[@chloroform2982]

The first point about matchmaking is great and I love that you mentioned the social aspect, when I first started playing pd2 I played on xbox and ended up in a cookoff lobby and me and the 3 other people spent a couple hours cooking and we became friends and played payday and siege together for several years and if pd2 had the same matchmaking as pd3 that wouldve never happened.

[@EcchiRevenge]

Gun firing sounds remind me of battlebit with the hit notification sound on, that stuff needs to be removed and all gun firing sound be tweaked to have more "bang"

[@silentclyde]

Fully agree with all of these, especially offline mode and replayability. A few days ago there was a pretty fierce storm in my area, tornado warnings and all, and while waiting for it to pass I thought I'd go level the FIK 22. I went with my usual method (Cradle Overkill Stealth) and wound up teleporting and dealing with bizarre door physics. Add on the fact that the heist was so predictable and it felt like a chore every time. I'd go do something else loud but it always feels like I'm being punished for it, and if I fail it's usually during the final charge i.e. at the very end, wasting the maximum amount of time. I'd add your last three points to the user suggestions page but I can't tell if someone has already done that or how exactly I'd convey these points. Plus this assumes changes this broad are on the mythical golden table. I hope Mio and the rest of the team watch this.

[@GunSpyEnthusiast]

Vlads character in PD2: *intentionally pays over 500,000 dollars for you to do 50,000$ in property damage * Vlad's character in PD3: "hey, here's a strip club. steal their money. "

[@EternalFireseal]

Vlad in PD2: Pays you to rob stores _he owns_ just to remind his employees not to mess with him.

[@PlebNC]

So you're saying he's the same character because both PD2 and PD3 Vlad asks you to rob a nightclub and take their money.

[@antynomity]

He's good, the issue is that he doesn't talk in his heist, that's what made meltdown and all his other heists where he talks so good.

[@coolpizzacook]

@@PlebNC The thing is that Vlad is petty. All of his original heists (before he just became "wacky guy lol") are grudge contracts. Even the Payday 2 Night Club is specifically to spite his rival.

[@PlebNC]

@@coolpizzacook And you think he's not going to buy up that club in PD3 immediately after the police investigation closes it down?

[@watchedsmile]

large changes aside, i would like to see cook off become actually endless rather than 14 bags and a very tiny change i liked from payday 2: the ability to jump in the van while its open

[@sirisaac6225]

If they make cook off endless they need to make it a separate mode with some changes. They also need to add more ways to get armor and health because the only way to get more if you run out is by bots and bulldozers. Cool concept, but just increasing the bag count to unlimited can be a problem, especially when playing with other people.

[@skeley6776]

they cant add a unready button 5months into PD3 (if u count the beta) maybe they will let u jump into the van for 20$...

[@fireworkstarter]

How about a new map instead of an 11 year old tiny map xD

[@watchedsmile]

@@fireworkstarter i like the 11 year old tiny map :)

[@watchedsmile]

@angelsoto9980 cant argue with that. they had so little content for the full release of the game they not only immediately recycled heists but also made mediocre paid content directly after that.

[@GameRevo]

Glad to see a video covering this. Wanted to make one, but honestly just didn't have the energy to give to PD3 in its current shocking state. (Also, I work slowly and I hold out a slim hope that they'll fix a bunch of my complaints before I'd even have time to finish a video.) Agree with everything you've covered here, and I'll double down by saying that all this still won't bring the game in line with PD2's quality. Personally I think the level design can be absolutely shocking in places - particularly in spots where the game can't decide whether to give you a defensive room to hold (a la PD:TH) or a hallway to loop around (a la PD2). The game is trying to push you into aggressive combat scenarios but wants to punish you as severely as PD:TH, which leads to the level design feeling overly cruel. Touch The Sky is maybe the worst offender, with No Rest For The Wicked unfortunately (since it's the first heist you'll experience) giving the best example of how to make it work. I also can't say I'm a huge fan of the new medic skill line. It feels like Starbreeze are responding to valid complaints about the game's core mechanics by slapping on new skill lines (like with the Transporter line) - this one in particular seems to respond to complaints about armour by power-creeping health (we have yet to see whether this utterly breaks balance as much as I fear). Also not fond of the final skill in the line working whether you have Edge, Grit OR Rush up. Feels like they designed a neat system to encourage sequencing skills into each other ('This activates grit, then I convert it to Rush so I can use this other skill'), and now they're just slapping passives that you don't have to think about on top of it all. God, I hate being so negative about this game. I still hold out hope they can right the ship - but what a mess this has all been. Thanks for addressing some of the complaints because I think Starbreeze really needs to take in this feedback.

[@redtheyiffer]

The hardest challenge run is the one that the devs are having trying to fix payday 3

[@fatninja90]

IDEA: i would love to see pro jobs from payday2 make a return to pd3. make them daily missions that you can only attempt once per day and attach c-stacks to them as rewards. completing the mission on a higher difficulty and completing random extra objectives (such as completing in stealth or messing with the dj booth in rock the cradle) results in more c-stacks. this will (hopefully) incentivize more ppl to vary their groups playstyle instead of investing all the way in stealth OR loud since you only have 1 opportunity per day to complete the job. if you mess up the stealth you need to pivot your playstyle instead of restarting and if you go loud from the beginning you have less opportunities for c-stacks.

[@MelodySmilez]

Great idea! Stealth completion being rewarded more would also be nice.

[@memes_the_dna_of_the_soul5487]

12:08 One game that did something very interesting was WWZ. With their Daily and Weekly challenge maps. Which was basically a mission, with a mutator enabled. For example, make a mutator that reverses health and armor, you use medkits to fix your armor, and Plates to heal. One that removes the normal beat cops, and puts a bunch specials in their place. One that makes it so ammo bags, medic bags, and plate bags have a chance to just be empty. And the thing is, the challenge points rewarded increases massively with increased difficulty.

[@FIatfoot]

That sounds awesome. A reason to log in each week, maybe get more IP than usual, and fun unique challenges.

[@memes_the_dna_of_the_soul5487]

For the IP, here are just some numbers im spitballing. Normal: 50 Hard: 100 Very Hard: 150 Overkill: 1000 The reason for the massive jum form very hard to Overkill is because overkill also adds one mutator that is completely random.

[@Ananonymousguy-nk9oj]

We need a deadzone adjuster for controller, it might seem small and unimportant but it would help a lot to make combat feel better

[@fireworkstarter]

Thats first person shooter 101 xD i havenever used the option but i remever not needing it since ps2 games.

[@victordabber]

For me the biggest problem in PD3 is sitting in front of my pc for 30 minutes hoping to find a game. When i finally get and finish one, the process has to start all over due to not having a good post game lobby

[@adeptusfantasticus]

Do gotta say though, they got big balls releasing a paid dlc with it still...like it is

[@a.c.2510]

I agree but remember they are obligated to. They sold 4 DLC bundles to be released over the first 12 months with the gold edition. If they don't keep those content updates coming, those who already paid are going to start demanding refunds...and they wouldn't be wrong for doing so.

[@scottishboy112]

4:49 : When you said ‘Please just give us an offline mode’ in that defeated tone, I felt that deeply myself. Pretty much, if Almir had said ‘Yes, we absolutely want to make an offline mode’ instead of ‘Its on the table’ every time he was asked, I’m sure a lot of people would be keeping an eye on the game and not just forget about it saying ‘Oh? So it ‘Might’ come?’. My Internet ain’t the best but even when it was better, I just like playing alone with bots. More consistent behaviours and such than one person coming in and dying because they thought they were invincible and ran into a literal horde of cops. Edit: Also, be careful wishing that you had a heist like GO Bank, remember the pain some challenge runs had because of the phone.

[@defaultdan7923]

literally this. oh my god. i would care about this game if they said “offline mode is coming!”, it’s a small thing but also the only reason i couldn’t be bothered.

[@dmoneyonair]

does anyone else think we need more skill points? i feel like in payday 2 i had more flexibility to dip into various playstyles, but with payday 3 i have to choose between maintaining the buffs or having more interesting perks

[@dirtyhermit5260]

Best move they could do at this point is release new heists for PD2

[@zodasofuzah]

lmao

[@leonhauptmann3301]

Or give Ulf the IP

[@Spokenword]

@@leonhauptmann3301 Ulf is working on a heist game already, Den of Wolves.

[@manboy4720]

i dunno about that, i've found the newer stuff to be kinda disappointing. not to mention you can tell how much the diesel engine is struggling nowadays.

[@zodasofuzah]

@@manboy4720 yeah i hope they leave payday 2 as is they broke it before already (upd 237 i think?)

[@Max44321]

How to make Payday 3 better: make it more like Payday 2

[@Perdidu]

I don't really get in which part of development they through that moving away from what made Payday 2 good was a great idea.

[@SenpaiMD]

this but acutally

[@xthijsbos6811]

So pay to win, Stealth Meta, Unreal Weapons, unlimited Amour? Nah payday is trash

[@Perdidu]

He thinks payday 2 is pay to win 💀. Also most of the dlcs are in sale almost every month for dirt cheap, no way someone is gonna buy just the base game.

[@xthijsbos6811]

​@@Perdiduit is pay to win most of the DLC Weapons are stronger than all Basic Weapons and thats Pay To Win 🤡

[@Grinch-Sama]

I heard "Den of Wolves" is gonna be by the guys that worked on Pay Day 1, Pay Day 2 and GTFO. It will also be a heist game. Will this channel cover it?

[@LavenderRebellin]

As someone who's been playing both PAYDAY The Heist and PAYDAY 2 recently, i agree with you on skills however i think challenges can be good. Its just the way the payout is given. Compared to Heist, challenges are seen as not only that but also a stepping stone to getting that next upgrade. Not to mention there's no challenges where you repeatedly complete a heist over and over. Id argue some of the most annoying challenges in that game are either the Expert challenges where you have to complete it by only getting headshots or "Me vs. (specific enemy)" where you have to single out a specific enemy to complete it. Hell even the matchmaking system in Heist still works beautifully nearly 15 years after release. If Starbreeze literally just copied and pasted that system in 3, I wouldn't mind it at all because the current one in 3 is probably the most anti-social matchmaking system I've seen *in a co-op game where communication is key.*

[@rabidbadger5260]

Love your vids, Kknowley, even if I don't love the game. As it stands I'm done with PD3, but I will watch to see how things progress. For what it's worth I think they absolutely need to up the randomisation and RNG in loud and stealth. They need to increase the risk in stealth - say get caught in a private area twice then you're cuffed- and that twice is triggered by anyone in the team. As it stands stealth is just boring and pretty much risk free. They need to look at damage avoidance and mitigation. The armour 'mechanic' is mundane. And, as far as I'm concerned, they absolutely have to bring perks back. Builds were designed around perks in PD2 and they would change the playstyle quite dramatically and really encouraged experimentation. There is very little to experiment with in PD3.

[@pilotmender043]

Something I never hear people mention is how poorly utilized the fixed RNG is. Instead of making just the escape locations and some objective changes fixed they also did codes and the colored switches. A good example is Dirty Ice. Why stealth into the building and find the code when you can rush into it loud, memorize it, then restart? It lets you cheese certain elements of heists. Another thing to add onto the list of incompetent developer decisions.

[@StarchieHalo]

​@@pilotmender043 real

[@JohnDVil]

One big change they need to bring back is the melee weapon system or at the least allow you to replace your secondary with a melee weapon at your own risk, as well as more guns, also, I wish they had the minigun from payday 2 as an overkill.

[@fireworkstarter]

Minigun would be an amazing overkill weapon. Right now we juat got a sniper abd a grenade launcher thats so slow to load you only shoot the first mag

[@Zyrvaria]

I think the challenges could have been very good if they took out the filler "get x kills with weapon" and "complete heist x times" and made the challenges reward what we currently have past level 100, and then kept the same loot gives xp system from payday 2. Make the challenges something to strive for when you just need a reason to replay a heist in a new way, and not be " I need this to be able to get skills and guns"

[@Bacon-ys2xi]

Payday 2 was one of the most positive social experiences in games I've ever had. Instead of immediately wanting to leave or just not talk to people following games, the cooperation aspect forced me to try. On long waits or bag-carrying trundles, I had long and completely unexpected conversations with strangers, some of whom are still on my friends list, and we occasionally hop into each other's lobbies. Anytime I play with my friends, it's still a blast (I even got my boyfriend in on it) and I wish for nothing but for this game to thrive and grow in my memories like Payday 2 did.

[@shawnfoogle920]

its trash asf

[@HeaftyBlast]

to get back on track, they need to do a burst of significant improvement updates along with a few cosmetic or other kind of contents thrown alongside those.

[@BoomstickOverkill]

Main story being sold as a DLC is also a big problem no one talks about

[@Unknown_Genius]

What did you expect? It's Payday afterall. I personally reserve my judgement about that (and the DLC prices based on their standalone pricing) until we know how much free content they add in addition over the course of the year.

[@leonhauptmann3301]

@@Unknown_Genius You see, they need to get their payday too

[@BoomstickOverkill]

@robertothesupermutant830 Yeah but the missions were randomly added to that game and the story wasn't a priority like Payday 3

[@WriteSnipe]

I’ve mentioned this among my friends before, but I honestly believe Payday 3 shouldn’t have a progression system at all. Payday 1 and 2 were about the gang becoming well known criminals building up Bain’s network for bigger and better jobs, so it made sense that there was a system about increasing for infamy in the criminal underworld. Payday 3 is not about that. The Payday gang are some of the most notorious criminals of all time; they managed to rob and steal their way into retirement without going straight. The story of Payday 3 is about their assets being destroyed and having to fight back against their conspirators. The limiting factor is money, not notoriety. The best way to thematically tie the story and gameplay together would be to allow players to get whatever they wanted right from the start, as long as they could scrounge enough money up. Imagine like Yakuza 0 where the upgrades used money. You could invest in better weapons, armor, and gear, or you could increase your skills and specialize your character that way. You would always be working towards what you wanted most without having to grind through however many levels it is to unlock the sniper.

[@wayvoedorado71]

Never seen an idea like that, it sounds awesome and creative. Implementing that sounds complicated though, but an interesting twist nonetheless.

[@antynomity]

It's funny because PAYDAY 2 had something like this with the original skill trees that hey had before the big rework into what we mostly have today.

[@moonlordmeow3431]

As someone who frequently has bad internet while gaming, always online games feel like cloud games you need to download fully.

[@NightmareNighty]

Another thing IMO is armor rework because right now every one have to use armor bag if you want to pass ovk difficulty and all other deployment bags are just not worth it to switch to.

[@Debosy]

YES, YES...! Finaly someone told about matchmaking problem, where playerbase is shredded into 44 different queues. I want to add one important detail, every new heist in game increas this number by new 4 queue combinations. This is true game killer. Thanks Kknowley i hope Overkill hear your voice.

[@antynomity]

It's more like 44 queues and then in reality like 85 queues if you account for the fact that you'll get into games with people not wanting to go the same tactic as you!

[@beatle7809]

I’ll come back to payday 3, once they release more content at a reasonable price.

[@theworldevolved4288]

To me the guns seem worse. Sure it's goofy that I can sneak into a bank with a sniper rifle, katana, and two chunky SMGs that are barely SMGs, all while still running crits, but it was fun dammit

[@sternenschauer]

that's great for the last 400 players👍🖐️

[@db_gaming277]

a potential fix for the leveling system is to go back to the old payday 2 routes (pre u100) give us benefits for putting a certain amount of points in a tree

[@AIELSOY]

I really hope they fix performance, definitely one of the biggest reasons I dropped this game very early on. Going from smooth 144fps on max settings in the tutorial map to barely 50fps with stutters on medium in the first heist is unacceptable, man.

[@ChefAaronSimon]

14:00 I 100% agree. The heists in PD3 just don't offer any flair. I remember playing Meltdown on PD2 for the first time and actually gasping when I realised what the loot we were after was. Core memory for me now. Plus the story of PD3 and it's weird "conspiracy" story arc really fell flat....

[@antynomity]

I swear having Vlad as a person talking during heists would make them 100 times more memorable, what a great character. I also remember being freaking flabbergasted on meltdown with what we were stealing.

[@fireworkstarter]

Yraciyea the nukes was a big suprise. But dont forget the chaos and laughter vlad and other contractors offerd. Vlad always gave us the petty thievery to maniac jobs. Now all we do is hit big jobs but there is nothibg to put it in perspective

[@absoultethings4213]

@@antynomityme too. I was dumbfounded staring at that thing thinking “what the fuck the game just started how crazy does this get” also LEGALIZE NUCLEAR BOMBS 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@Caliboyjosh10]

I would not have played Payday 2 for years if not for the matchmaking system. I found dozens of great friends over that time to play from the lobby system and blows my mind how they did a 180 on a perfect system that worked. I refunded Payday 3 two days after this. There are so many issues with the game, it's gonna be a miracle to fix them all. RIP Payday.

[@staryoshi06]

About the scaling assault mechanic: I don't think it should be gotten rid of: payday 2 and TH both had a similar mechanic, but 2's became almost invisible after they got rid of all enemy variety. I also don't think it should just be "wave-based" instead of progression-based, it should be a hybrid. You don't want people staying too long in a heist, so having it ramp up after a few waves makes sense. But if someone rushes through a heist, they should still be forced to deal with the higher tier enemies. However, the progression-based scaling should be dynamic. It's extremely annoying to stealth near to the end, go loud, and then be immediately greeted with the highest tier enemies. Scaling should also be a bit smoother. It feels weird to switch directly over from light swat to heavy, with no in-between where you see both enemies. It clearly limits the creativity of the mechanic, as you can see with how cook off does it.

[@Lucios1995]

Being able to switch characters in offline mode would be really nice, keep someone in casing mode, another masked up, reminds me of Project Eden. 14:15 There are one sided one liners/one line long character developments in Overkill's The Walking Dead, but damn it's SOMETHING compared to this.

[@ryantrainer3433]

There also needs a lot of ammo pickup, weapon damage, armor, loot value, solo playability balance fixes as well

[@JMONE3Y1000]

i was hoping this was gonna be a collection of mods that make payday 3 a better game. idea for the next video i guess

[@Ladis1]

They literally just need to make an offline mode and they'll have so many loyal players on-board

[@aphyxia]

FIRST of all, ovk need to fix the bugs that have been in the game since the start. NO more failing stealth due to trying to vault after not jumping after crouching PLEASE

[@a.c.2510]

An option in the settings to toggle pressing jump twice to mantle would solve this so easily, and plenty of other games have done it.

[@bonechovah]

Payday 3 is a disasterpiece. I love Payday 3 and I wish that SBZ love it as much as I do.

[@bloodymclane]

I am a bit late to the party, but I feel the lack of guns and attachments (no lasers? no lights? no canted sights, etc) absolutely mind boggling. And the fact that they announced ONE free LMG is ... beyond everything.

[@CentreMetre]

One thing i still hate (which i assume hasnt been added, idk i havent played in a while) is that it does say 'Loading 50%' for example. My storage is slow and i feel like a right knob just standing there in the lobby with everyone else readied up, while im just not ready, a 'i have no mouth and i must scream' type moment. doesnt help that theres no text chat in lobbies aswell

[@TheTundraTerror]

The complete lack of offline solo is going to keep me from ever considering the game.

[@YippingFox]

Now, I got pushed into payday 3 by a friend that wanted to play. I didn't want to play it initially and even told him that I'd wait the year a game should have after a beta so that flaws can actually be fixed before realese. So he instead gifted me the game, then we played it with the two of us. And to no surprise to me, we both got tired of the game after less then 20 hours of playtime. The single most annoying thing I find is that I am having an exceptionally hard time telling apart the specials from the horde. I do not understand why in a horde shooter the specials are this close to the common enemy, unlike payday 2 or left for dead for example. If a special shows up there they are nearly immediately identifiable just from their shapes. If a common cop is hiding the left side of a zapper (tazer) you lose the little bag that may get your attention. I also found that the colours in the game are very dark, which does not help me see the dark blue colours of ANY of the enemies. It is dark on dark on dark on, what feels to me, 90% of the backdrops. (walls, fences, rocks, gates, the sky, etc.) A good comparison to this would be the outside of the safe house Hector hides in. I have a very hard time seeing the cops outside. However on the inside of the house all of the walls are a bright colour which immediately highlights the outline of the cops.

[@Skygamer_28]

6:30 I totally agree we need more RNG for RNGESUS's sake

[@cracklysilver9180]

I say this in a very respectful way. I honestly thought the game was abandoned, I thought the DLCs were cancelled, and it was because I played for 2 hours, with more playtime on waiting the first week and after that I didn't hear a single soul talk about the game. It is so sad to see this happening to an IP I loved for so long.

[@itisoven]

one of the oddest things that they did was add 2 legacy heists that had a forced approach of stealth and loud to them in a game that was already suffering from a lack of replayabilty. i never really understood why they thought giving us less options in the early state of the game would be a wise idea but i cannot see myself playing cook off and murky station any more times

[@gunnerdown]

I really like the ultimate skill idea, move all capstones to their own little folder then have the capstone slot replaced with ultimate skills, only allow someone to have 1 or 2 active at a time and be things like (for tank) armor repair kits act as full plates, (for hacker) spend all run times too temporarily disable all cameras of the heist but can only be used once, maybe have that be like 1 or 2 minutes or something so it’s not pointless, medic could maybe be a self revive or maybe give that to the upcoming fortitude skill line and give medic inspire with the nerf of can only be used once per teammate per custody or even once per teammate cause I know some people abuse custody as is

[@oniontaster6449]

it makes me feel a bitter sweet sense of joy to see peoples favorite game series fail after they spend weeks berating people commenting on the betas saying "its a beta, the devs will have it fixed by launch, this isint indicative of launch" then it launches in a worse state than the beta. probobly because i did the same thing for darktide and that went so well for me

[@AlbinoGorilla4]

I know this might seem like a fanboy game promotion, but I’m serious here; Starbreeze should absolutely look for inspiration in Deep Rock Galactic. Their leveling is superb. You get exp for completing missions (revolutionary I know) but there are also “events” that show up in the map that give more exp for completion. These events would solve the problem of the progression system and map variety at the same time. For build variety, these events give these endgame rewards known as overclocks. The overclock system in DRG is THE endgame grind that every live service game should look up to. It would give the PD3 meta the spice it needs. Overclocks are a lot to explain, so I’ll leave that for google to handle haha.

[@LonelyDeceive]

ROCK AND STONE!!! and yeah, this could add more RNG for each heist, feeling more diferent each time

[@Lemaxance]

they def boutta add deathwish and death sentence i think

[@oni7488]

The current matchmaking is like Dallas getting recruits from a damn temp agency. If I can't play with my crew, I'm not playing! Offline Single-player Persistent lobbies that work like they should It's not a mystery!

[@zerberus_ms]

I personally consider the game to be not out yet, so I'm waiting for it to hopefully actually come out...

[@StarchieHalo]

I've officially redownloaded and gotten back into payday 2, still making and trying new builds lol

[@Starcraftgamer97]

Single Player/Offline Mode or bust. That's all I will come back for unless there is a major amount of fun and good content added.

[@DiscreetHobo]

The final unlocked skill in each skill tree of PD3 imo needs to be locked until you pick up at least 2 or 3 skill points in said skill tree before you can use the "ultimate" skill. on top of that those "ultimate" skills need to be buffed in line with this change, give them some sweeping changes that modifies your gameplay in a significant way like old PD2 used to do

[@thegames4565]

So at that point just revert it back to the PD2 skill system

[@OhNoTheFace]

@@thegames4565 Yeah, it was good, new system sucks.

[@dmoneyonair]

i like the top perks. running reload or +10% movement speed shouldnt require investment

[@molassesman4066]

I mean yeah A maxxed out payday 3 player has like half the power of a level 15 in payday 2​@thegames4565

[@juliangracia7563]

Crime net online was the peak match making tec why not bring it back if only starbreeze listened

[@hardius13]

The developers actually listened you

[@daddydallas4789]

All your points are very valid. But there are two other very crucial points I think need to be adressed, which me in particular kept me from playing: 1. PD3 has barely any dopamine source. In general the main reason people play video games is to gain dopamine (=hormone which makes you feel happiness and satisfaction) from it. And that's a big problem in PD3 because there is no dopamine source, you get very little Exp after completing heists, and when you get Exp it is not as noticeably shown to you by the game. In PD2 you got Exp on mass, you leveled up very fast and the game always let you know that very clearly after completing a heist. The level meter was very big and loud. And the infamy system encouraged you to keep levelling and keep grinding, with all these measures PD2 assured a big and constant flow of dopamine when you played it. 2. PD3s vibe is too plain and generic. Overall the game feeling lacks personality, it just feels very generic and doesn't really stand out from other generic FPS shooters like COD. It is pretty hard to describe, but basically PD1 had this gritty 90s action movie vibe, and PD2 had this eletronic-digital vibe, trying to be futuristic while staying in the present. Both games were very unique in that regard and it gave them character. I think in PD3 they were trying to do both, but failed at doing both, the vibe just ended up feeling plain and generic, I might as well go play some random FPS shooter like COD, and I would barely feel any difference. This is maybe not as crucial in general, but still quite important for me personally. 3. PD3s characters lost their charisma and are too quiet. This one is also quite difficult to explain, but basically all the characters in PD3 speak even less than in PD2, the voice lines in general sound much quieter and the feeling of all the characters are much more similar I feel like. For example I am a Dallas main, I loved him in PD2, he was confident, charismatic, level-headed, slightly upbeat and you could always hear that in his voice lines. Now in PD3 he is rather grumpy and angry and tense and he kind of lost all of his other traits he had in PD2. And while I think it is okay that characters develop and change, in this case they shouldn't become completely different persons.

[@Klero6869]

The funniest thing is that the player base will wait. If payday 3 went the same route as No mans sky and did the leg work to deliver i a couple of years, it would have a massive player base. The only question is, why did we get a half-baked inferior to the pd2 game after waiting for so long?

[@Majimba_Enjoyer]

the matchmaking rn is truly terrible the best lobby i got in 40 hours was a lobby with 2 people total

[@Dwayne_LaFontant]

It really feels like the depth of build has been stripped down. I know some don’t care but for me it feels just lackluster.

[@Djacuzzi]

I bought payday 3 recently and enjoyed the game for a few hours but after completing all the heists and unlocking all the cosmetics I wanted the game was no longer fun, I played in noisy and stealthy mode in every heist, just in 52 hours of play I've come full circle with this game. Payday 3 really needs new content and more levels, not just empty dlc (which I'll never buy). I bought a 20 million gun and nothing changes except the camo on the gun. In any case, I hope the developers will fix all these problems asap.

[@chronicFLUX44]

I just recently bout cyberpunk and I've wanted to play it since launch. I refuse to have a bad experience as a first impression because I'd likely never come back. So I have no problem waiting for years for this to get worked out. Still have big hopes for this game and I have a thousand hours on payday 2. Crossing my fingers

[@czarnakoza9697]

its over for this studio.

[@bruisedbug]

The fact they tried to sell us an overpriced DLC was disgusting

[@thefinnishphoenix7412]

For now I'm only playing solo heists, and the latency issues are baffling to say the least. During launch the heists generally worked quite well, but recently the ping is a real issue. It feels like I'm playing on 9 fps at times due to the lag. I can understand that a game like this will be resource intensive, I kind of need to update my hardware at some point and I might be pretty far away from the closest server, but no offline means I cannot reliably play almost any heist at the moment. It sucks, because the game looks and plays quite well. Hopefully offline mode will be added soon enough.

[@norbertbubiek5655]

I like the idea of Ultimate Skills, so I have some suggestions: 1.Focus Disruption(Tactician): Your Smoke Bombs has an 20% chance to cause an enemy to suffer a Heavy Stagger every quarter of second (Also counts Specials exept Dozer) 2.Piercer (Sniper) All weapons can pierce trougth Shields Visor. 3.Akimbo (Gunslinger) You can now carry your secondary in akimbo mode. It gains 100% more reserve ammo and 100% clip size, however you reload your secondary 30% slower. 4.Armor Economy (Tank) Interaction with the Armor bag recovers additional armor chunk. It applies only to Medium and Heavy armor 5.Untouchable (Manipulator) Enemies will no longer attack you if you have a bodyshield and you're not aiming (Includes all specials) 6.Overdose (Medic) Interacting with A Doctor Bag makes you or your teammate immune to damage, staggers, flashbangs, Zapper stun Guns, Naders Gas grenades, Cloaker kicks, Dozer kicks/shouder charges and Techies Tactical drone effects For 10 seconds 7.Sixth Sense (Strategist) You Instantly Mark Cloakers and Techies in 75m radius from you

[@GunSpyEnthusiast]

Wish list for new content/content changes: 1: buff the ziv commando thing. 2: give me a map where I can be of value to my team by running over every enemy I find whilst listening to The Magic School Bus theme, Waluigi's Pinball Machine theme, or Coconut Malls theme. 3: A mask that is just piece of paper with a clown head poorly drawn on.

[@adeptusfantasticus]

I just got to play cook off with random and get 19 pure bags... So at least that works. I remember doing cook-off with my brother on payday two, sometimes in mission for four hours, you know, one out of ten times since it almost always crashed on us.

[@gurl5496]

i have a feeling that in a few years we will joke about these dark days while enjoying what game had become i also have a feeling that it will be a dlc simulator like payday 2 and will scare off new players

[@vacantknight]

i stopped playing it came back for the dlc and new update got into cook off full lobby actually started to have a little fun, was on cook off for 30 mins then the server went down and kicked everyone out lossed all that progress and i instantly got off the game and haven't tried to play it again

[@bapbop2399]

11:47 sad chain got the bugs :(

[@Thedefenses]

The Challenge systems idea was ok, if you see someone that´s max level you would expect them to be good and experienced at the game, but due to how few, how uncreative and monotonous the challenges are, there is no real fun or challenge even getting them. There would need to be at least double if not triple the amount for their "max skill points without grinding" promise to be true. The funny thing is, Payday 2 had tons of achievements that were essentially the same as challenges in Payday 3 get x amount of kills with something, get to x level and the like, but the whole game wasn´t about them and there were a shit tons more of weird, specific or hard achievements that would take whole heists or play sessions to complete that weren´t just "complete x heist 50 times in stealth".

[@zehlan2100]

I sometimes wonder, why not turn money into exp? You would be able to unlock anything in a simillar way to perk decks in PD2 and money would always have value

[@Malog.]

Basically we need more payday in payday 3

[@teabix8755]

its on the table

[@Coolguy20732]

Its crazy that “builds” just completely disappeared in PD3. Payday 2 you had many options on what to spec into and actually build your character. Wanna run with AR’s and spec into their stats? Do it Wanna be a sole tank with lmgs? Do it Wanna focus on snipers and critical hits? Do it Wanna spec into pistols and sprint around? Do it Wanna use shotguns mainly and spec into them? Do it Wanna go medic and be a powerhouse of a healer? Do it Ammo god? Do it Stealth god? Do it PD3 limited the choices EXPONENTIALLY to where everything is just boring ol meta, everyone runs the same skills, uses the highest dps weapons bc everything else just sucks horrendously when it comes to damage or ammo economy. It’s ridiculous how much “freedom” they really stripped away from a game who’s predecessor was nothing but an RPG-esq power fantasy that nobody complained about

[@plamenk.3383]

Online only doesn't even work as DRM, the game is cracked with working multiplayer (on official servers no less)

[@thebigpotate]

It really does suck to get into an overkill lobby since you can't actually find one efficiently

[@cayde-6452]

something else we should get is some actual melee choices instead of "i don't have anything but my guns"

[@01talima]

i loved payday 2 was so excited for 3, october was the last i logged in and i haven't hard any news to make m think i will soon

[@CaullyD]

Den of Wolves waiting room

[@stevencowan37]

As this is another video that brings it up: at the very least my friends and I won't play any game that isn't some form of MMO that doesn't have an offline mode. That includes Payday 3 at this point.

[@Overlord598]

server browser and offline mode would be a great start is it too much to ask

[@crazedchangeling]

I think I saw someone say that PD3 was built to be a successor of PDTH, gameplay wise, but it was advertised as the follow up from PD2, story and character wise. And those are very separate categories...

[@thegamingvillager2392]

>story >payday game

[@crazedchangeling]

@@thegamingvillager2392 I mean, that's why I played it. The chaos is just a nice bonus.

[@xthijsbos6811]

Skill System is good, its balanced in payday 2 was a massive stealth build meta. In Payday 3 is Everything good youre not OP or something the only thing what the game need is a new Plate, Medic and Ammo Bag System.

[@rorschach4089]

If that was true then people would actually be playing the game.

[@TheMonsteratior]

I do hope offline play and the ability to pause come into the game. I would play Payday 3 a lot more even though I can barely run it on my computer

[@DTC-ex7wg]

I don't like the armor system. There's no way to reliably get more if you don't bring an armor bag, and it seems to punish extended matches.

[@SAMUEL_0967]

feels like it would be best to give the game a go in about 5 years