Fixing the D&D 5e Phoenix Sorcerer | Nerd Immersion

I asked if you wanted me to do a Fixing video on the UA unpublished subclasses I listed in my Top 7 video and the answer was overwhelmingly yes! So here is the first in that series, the Phoenix Sorcerer! This was what I thought was a very cool Sorcerous Origin, but apparently not cool enough for Wizards of the Coast to make it official. So that being said, I made a few small tweaks that I think fix the number one issue it has, only being able to use Mantle of Flame once per long rest.
I also incorporated the ideas from my Fixing Sorcerer 2.0 video into this as well. I pretty much go over those fixes in this video, but if you want to see that in full, head here: • UPDATE: Fixing the D&D...
The original Fixing Sorcerer video can be found here: studio.youtube...
To check out the Phoenix Soul Sorcerer, here's the Unearthed Arcana where it was originally released: dnd.wizards.co...
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[@supercalifragic1551]

I would add to ignite that you also learn the Produce Flame cantrip, and when you use it, it also benefits from Ignite.

[@Himothy_Wayne]

I would recommend having some sort of graphic at the end showing the before and after of what you ‘fixed’. That way we can have a visual aid and compare.

[@NerdImmersion]

If I had an editor, I would do that for sure. I'll see what I can do

[@tank7737]

@@NerdImmersion I understand your pain, but I totally agree that the compare and contrast would be fantastic!

[@iBLookinATu]

He directly links the UA with the Phoenix Soul in the description, you can read along as he goes.

[@TheKroganMaster]

MY main problem with the sublcass even thought it does make sense thematically, is that everything is keyed off Mantel of flame and that ability can only be used once per long rest and they have an ability to end it early. It just feels bad to have to hold onto your main thing until time is right and than when you pop it early have to decide to end it for more damage or keep it going.

[@conradkorbol]

Yeah it should be short rest or an amount equal to your charisma mod

[@TheKroganMaster]

@@conradkorbol Either one would of been nice, or hell at some point just give them a increase on how many times they can use it per day. So that way you aint stuck with holding onto it.

[@conradkorbol]

GrandpaTofu true anything would be better than the current version

[@wabschall]

@@TheKroganMaster You could easily lock it to your Charisma modifier, then you get 5 times max a day. Not sure if that'd be too OP though

[@TheKroganMaster]

@@wabschall I worry about just slapping on Mod x to abilities because it can become to strong. Since its Sorc another option is to do that new thing of they can use it again but spending Sorc points

[@biancabrooks280]

Thanks. When I saw your last video I was like “yes. Phoenix sorcerer. Aarakocra? Possibly. It’s an aesthetic. Imma do it”

[@davidotoole2853]

I think a good thing to do for the sorcerer is give each subclass a unique metamagic option. that they know and doesnt have it count against their known list and can use at 6th level or something for the draconic sorcerer they'd get dragon magic- when you cast a spell that deals the damage type tied to your origin you can spend sorcerery points to have the spell bypass resistance and immunity to that damage type for the phoenix it could be when if a nonhostile creature is within the range of a fire spell that you cast they gain temporary hitpoints equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level wild could be spend sorcerery points to be able to choose the effect that happens

[@lerianthaumiel4434]

Ohh thats an intrestin idea

[@gryfon_gamez8184]

Phoenix sorcerer is easily my favourite class in D&D 5e

[@sleepysloth7885]

Thank you for posting a video on how you edited the subclass to improve it.

[@subdave7]

Your thumbnail game is * on point. Overall videos and energy is top notch.

[@orionhibbert3045]

Can’t wait to see what you got for a Ranger fix it

[@josephwilliams5292]

“Wizards didn’t want to go down the route of pigeon holing someone into a specific type of damage.” >wildfire druid >light cleric

[@justmonica9253]

I think those work better because they give the class access to more spells of that specific type. On a sorcerer, it doesn't expand your options, it more limits them.

[@siegfried1422]

I really like these changes. Particularly the change to Phoenix spark. It's a very useful buff to the subclass, but also a very thematic change in my eyes. The mantle, which represents your Phoenix ancestry, is reborn in flame when it would die.

[@SchwartzerAdler]

Would love to play with this skill set! Imagine what it could do in a College of Lore Bard multiclass situation. Feels like the ultimate support character to me!

[@valvadis2360]

That using Detect Magic as a ritual for everybody really just makes sense. You probably never heard of it, but there this brazilian rpg system called Tormenta that's going into it's 2° edition, and on of their changes they made is that Detect Magic and Identify stopped being spells and became uses of the Misticism skill, so everybody who's trained can do it. It was a really good change.

[@Ricardo-zo1ti]

This is cool, but the Phoenix Sorcerer fix is just the Wildfire Druid

[@rowandrake2045]

Sorcerer can already swap out spell slots for sorcery points. Having another way to do it isn't bad, just heads up that it's a thing in base sorcerer too

[@timothyhanna6304]

Great job. Looking forward to the next one.

[@antoniopanser1]

Fix the Bladesinger!

[@jamestaylor3805]

So heres a build based on one level of this subclass and a dip into Mystic... The Fire Eater Dex 1st, Con 2nd, Cha 3rd, Wis 4th Gold Ancestry Metalic Dragonborn - Metallic Breath Weapon - Metallic Resistance - Metallic Warding Marine background. - Steady feature and vehicles 2 level Mystic Order of Immortal - Beastial Form, Giant Growth, Mastery of Fire. - Lightstep - Immortal Durability 1 level Sorcerer Phoenix Sorcery - Mantle of Fire 17 levels Monk Ascendant Dragon - Breath of the Dragon - Aspect of the Wyrm - Draconic Disciple - Wing Unfurled - Other Monk features Feats - Fighting Initiate/Tunnel Fighter - Fighting Initiate/Mariner - Sentinel - Mobile Languages - Common, Draconic, Choose 1 + Tongue of the Sun and Moon + Telepathy Musical Instruments - Choose 1 Artisan's Tools - Disguise Kit, Choose 1 4 total Cantrips. Greenflame, Firebolt, Control Flame, Thunderwave(reflavored to fire damage). Known Sorcerer Spells - Mage Armor, Shield 65' movement, +10' Light Step Flying with Step of the Wind and Wings Unfurled. Climbing and Swimming via Mariner. AC10 +Dex Mod +Con(or Wis) Mod +1AC Mariner +2AC Tough Hide +3AC Mage Armor +5AC Shield Immune to Disease and Poison via Purity of Body. Resistance to Fire ×2 with Mastery of Fire, Metallic Resistance. Resistance to chosen element with Aspect of the Wyrm. Immune to Fire with Metallic Warding. Other defensive features. Simple turns most of the time, move, basic unarmed attacks, bonus action to trigger Tunnel Fighter. Greenflame Blade on attacks of opportunity. Tough Hide to avoid hits, Mantle of Flame and Mastery of Fire to max out "breath weapon frenzy", Giant Growth and Ogre Form for blocking routes with a 20' total reach. Unarmed 5' standard reach 1d10 +Dex Fire +5' Reach w/Giant Growth -or- +2 fire damage w/Mastery of Fire -and- +Cha fire damage w/Mantle of Flame +10' reach and +1d4dmg w/Ogre Form --Breath Weapon Frenzy-- Breath of the Dragon 3d10 Fire +2 w/Mastery of Fire +Cha Mod w/Mantle of Flame --and-- Metalic Breath Weapon 4d10 +2 w/Mastery of Fire +Cha Mod w/Mantle of Flame --both-- Can replace one attack each out of an attack action. Can do upto two breath weapon attacks per Attack Action.

[@robertcox9871]

This was my favourite sorcerer subclass

[@citrineconjurer]

I know this is an old video, but an idea I recently had was to reduce the damage of the Mantle of Flame to be the same as that of the Draconic Sorcerer. Then at 6th level, make the Mantle of Flame a toggle with infinite use. The level 18 feature would need to be changed (permanent resistance against all damage is too much), but that's a high level that most don't reach anyways. Maybe I'd change the resistance to instead doubling the range of the bright and dim light of the Mantle and then making your fire damage do half damage to enemies with immunity to fire?

[@TheLawOverwatch]

I love the new logo animation, the old one was a little long and over the top but this one is quick simple and pleasing.

[@gryfon_gamez8184]

Origin spells i'd add: 1st level- burning hands,hellish rebuke 3rd level- flame blade, scorching ray 5th level- fireball, Melf's minutes meteors 7th level- fire shield, wall of fire 9th- flame strike, immolation

[@The_Sharktocrab]

Friend of mine played a pheonix sorcerer up to level 20 in a game I dm'ed and he loved it, the only problem I had with it is that he basically only cast scorching ray to get his charisma bonus on each ray, it was kinda overpowered

[@thereaIitsybitsyspider]

I did that with my Draconic Sorcerer because I was unaware that the bonus was only once per spell. Its like Eldritch Blast on steroids, and you know that they're gonna take the feat that negates resistance and lets them reroll 1s.

[@normal6483]

@@thereaIitsybitsyspider Actually, Elemental Adept, (the feat that lets you ignore resistance) turns your 1s into 2s, it doesn't let you reroll them. The feat that lets you reroll 1s is Flames of Phlegothos, and it's Tiefling only. Otherwise, looks like you might be stuck with Empowered Spell metamagic.

[@The_Sharktocrab]

@@gamecavalier3230 you cant cast eldritch blast at level 8 to do 18d6+45 though

[@The_Sharktocrab]

@@gamecavalier3230 that requires a lot of investment and should be that powerful, I'm talking about a single class feature so theres no comparison really

[@The_Sharktocrab]

@@gamecavalier3230 artillerists only add the d8 to one damage roll

[@fortunatus1]

I give Sorcerers an additional known spell list also. Only I give them 1 spell per level from spell levels 1-5. That raises their spells known from 15 to 20. The way you do your bloodline spells gives sorcerers an additional 10 spells known. That seems like too much to me; its like a 40% increase in spells known. Also, bloodline recovery seems to reduce the power of the sorcerer's capstone ability. (I change that capstone ability myself to: At 20th level, you regain 5 + your Charisma modifier in expended sorcery points up to your maximum number of points whenever you complete a short rest and you gain one additional Metamagic option). Instead, I give a new ability from older editions called Eschew Materials. You can use an arcane focus to cast any spell that requires 50 gold or less in material components as long as the components are not consumed in the casting (so no Find Familiar free casting). It doesn't affect many spells but I've never thought that it made sense to require material components for low level sorcerer spells. Without a teacher, how would a sorcerer figure this out?

[@adonissued7394]

If you are mounted where do you stay exactly on the board and what does that have to do with you maele range?

[@KevinVideo]

I'm fine with the healing, but I'm confused about the calm emotions spells.

[@killcat1971]

I would have thought that Cure Wounds at 1st would have been a good idea.

[@ArcaneTempestCosplay]

@@killcat1971 I was thinking the same thing

[@sejongtakenaka]

What do you think about races which grant advantage on saves against magic saving throws (ex. Yuan-Ti Pureblood, Vedulkan)?

[@NerdImmersion]

It's definitely powerful, but gnomes have it too and they're one of the original races

[@conradkorbol]

Nerd Immersion gnomes is advantage on all mental saves. So it’s a little different. Tho it arguably helps you out in more types of saves.

[@UncleBBQ]

Mantle of Flame damage overcomes fire resistance. Maybe have this extra ability at lv 6.

[@wabschall]

Yea too many things have fire resistance or immunity. This is definitely needed.

[@stugod5000]

awesome fix, I can actually see myself playing this subclass. I had a thought about fixing the sharpshooter (name changed to the vigilante? thrown weapon and firearm proficiency and steady aim feature offer an additional second attack (ability has charge feature which up to wisdom modifier per day/long rest) if you miss the first attack the second attack gets an advantage. thus fixing rapid shot, probably not the best fix but kinda fits into the idea of the lone fighter and his bow going from city to city taking out an entire criminal organisation

[@jabberwockld4316]

A friend argued that thematically the pheonix is fire/radiant since the healing and rebirth factors (quintissential to the concept of the pheonix) is inheritly more on the radiant side rather than purely fire, while I can abide by that logic I feel like if you add the radiant damage to the bonus damage from the mantle of flames it would be to powerful but it does help with the whole "element fixed class". What do you guys think???

[@aaronbourque5494]

IMO, more than the bloodline spells (though they certainly help), giving the sorcerer a way to recover spell points over a short rest is the number one thing to turn the sorcerer from a "sometimes, on a whim" class choice into an "oh, I could be a *SORCERER*" class choice. I, too, hit on "recover spell points equal to half the character's sorcerer level once per day on a short rest, " thing. But, going further, I think it's fine for the sorcerer, living embodiments of magic, to be able to drain their spell points to recover spell slots at all levels, I just follow a formula of 2x+2 (where x = spell level) for 6th level spells and up. Sure, that means, if they wanted to, a 20th level sorcerer could drop extra 9th level spells in one encounter, but if they did that, they'd be severely limiting either their spell point options or their spell slot options (as they would need to sacrifice spell slots to regain more spell points). With the spell point/spell slot cost deficit, I don't see it as that big a deal, even with a short rest recovery option. Looking forward to your Ranger vid, even if it does take some time. That class still needs a lot of work, even with the recent class feature options UA.

[@aaronbourque5494]

Oh, and Sorcerers should have d8 hit die.

[@glukolover]

And here I was literally finishing my own fix for this/pyromancer archtype. Funny how that happens.

[@Charliestrife01]

I’m really new to dnd but I was wondering if is there a high likelyhood phoenix sorc will be added to bg3?

[@NobodyDungeons]

Now one thing I do in my games is have all of the spell casters prepare spells like the cleric except for the wizard as they prepare spell in the same manner from their books, but wizards have the unique advantage of being able to ritual cast all of the ritual spells in their books without preparing them allowing wizards to prepare other spells

[@TyTrouts]

The bloodline recovery thing makes sense, personally I feel that they should get their Sorcery Points back on a short rest, most of the abilities of Sorcerer are only per long rest, so you literally get nothing for taking a short rest. Warlocks get their slots back, Druids get wild shape, Clerics get channel divinity, Bards even get their inspiration back on a short rest at 5th level(Really, just why? It makes no sense to separate these two abilities.) And then wizards get arcane recovery. What do Sorcerers get back on a short rest? Maybe an ability from the bloodline, depending on the bloodline. Now even if they only get half their sorcery points back, that would be fantastic in comparison to what we get now.

[@mikhailthegreatestdragon3627]

I'm still waiting on that Warlock fix!

[@NerdImmersion]

That's coming too!

[@TuckBolt]

I love the idea of an Aracockra Pheonix Soul Sorcerer. Be an actual phoenix.

[@6271996purple6]

Havent watch the video yet. Just super excited u made it!!

[@orionar2461]

Your hair is looking great. Also, giving them a free revive after being downed that refreshs itself is going to make it impossible for the dm to punish a bad player

[@NerdImmersion]

why would a DM be punishing a player? I feel like if that's the mentality there may be a deeper issue. But I'm not talking about a free revive, the free revive is from the class itself, I'm just giving back Mantle of Flame

[@orionar2461]

@@NerdImmersion I'm an idiot, somehow ithought that giving back the mantle gave back the revive. "Punishing" would be killing the player doing fantastically stupid things I combat or doing enough chaotic stupid stuff outside of combat to get himself killed. I refer to Phoenix spark as a revive, btw

[@legithopecrew]

How do you like the comparison between this and the Pyromancer Origin from Plane Shift Kaladesh (pg 9)?

[@Tanthalasa83]

Awesome... Would have loved the link for the fix on dndbeyond... But maybe one day there will be NI Class Fix Compendium...

[@NerdImmersion]

I would have but it's not publishable on dnd beyond. It says it borrows too much from sorcerer

[@Tanthalasa83]

@@NerdImmersion that is fair... I will just wait for the Compendium then...

[@felixrivera895]

I'm giving Mage Armor and Shield as something all main casters know and can use as bonus spells that don't count. They're just. Fundamental mage abilities.

[@josephwilliams5292]

Unless you’re a dragon soul sorcerer, in which case mage armor is useless

[@theblindbuildergrandminuti5648]

This was a good rework. I actually liked most of that UA. With the stone soul, I’d change a few things but I think it’s not bad. For one; the whole 1/4 value of a class is really just stupid math, I understand they did it because they have multi classing worries but literally just go by proficiency bonus is a lot less of a headache and it averages out the same, i’m so glad they stopped doing that.

[@ChasoGod]

I think you should be able to fly when you first get the Flame Mantle ability, but only for the period of time while its active, then at level 18 you can keep Flame Mantle on indefinitely.

[@johnreese5739]

I've been really into doing my own fix of the Undying Warlock. It has really nice lore and I'm a big fan of the style, but it's hot garbage in terms of power. SCAG is the most mixed bag of all bags.

[@vpuigdoller]

Woot thx for this one!

[@Nighthawk613]

Yesss this is what i wanted

[@notorious.scoundrel]

Yes! More, more!

[@thereaIitsybitsyspider]

Personally, I would make Mantle of Flame a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (min 1) and remove the caveat you added. I suppose this could be really powerful, especially in the hands of a changeling with 18 Charisma at level 1, but then again, it kinda just puts your Firebolt on par with what all of the martial classes are doing.

[@pyron5277]

I did a similar thing, except I used my proficiency modifier, that way it scales with level

[@Abyssionknight]

Personally I'd just change the phoenix spark ability so that if you proc it while your mantle is active, the mantle simply doesn't end. It solves the issue without creating a weird situation where sorcerers are encouraged to go down before the mantle ends, just so they can get a free use of mantle later on.

[@NerdImmersion]

I wouldn't consider it encouragement to go down but a way to fix the shitty situation of going down while using your main ability

[@zacharygadzinski3147]

It would be cool if the unreleased classes were eventually added.

[@KyleCabalitasan]

How do we go about asking our DM for these suggested changes?

[@Brillitjies]

I rather like this fix, i tried a phoenix sorc once and i never used mantle because it just didnt feel worth it

[@halohawkxx]

My only gripe for this, is the Mantle of Flame. There's gonna be times where you don't want to use Mantle of Flame in leu of more favorable Spell Combinations via Meta-Magic. Maybe... Make it so you have uses of Mantle of Flame equal to CHA Modifier per Day and then add the 5 Sorcery Points after that to use again. It might make it slightly more viable?

[@marcperez2598]

I think that is the point though

[@parkerbrantley4356]

I like all your spell choices except I think id replace mass healing word at lvl 3 with revivify

[@NerdImmersion]

I went with Raise Dead for 5 and healing word at 3 to try and give some resurrection as well as healing. I felt revivify and raise dead was redundant

[@manicmotivation4582]

Damn Ted, take a nap.

[@desislavvelchev8728]

Don't think Phoenix Sorcerer needs fixing honestly. Mantle of Flame is an amazing ability, giving you insane damage with Scorching Ray, balanced out by the long rest. Base class on the other hand? Yeaaaaah........

[@mwrosser]

@nerd immersion are your homebrew options available on DNDBeyond? I can't find this build in the sarch!

[@NerdImmersion]

They won't let me publish it!

[@KevinVideo]

Someone on Reddit was looking for help with the phoenix sorcerer so I shared this, but it seems your subclass was removed from D&D Beyond for some reason. Don't know if you still have your original notes, but if you could post that in a Google Doc and post that in the description or pin it in the comments, that could help people in the future.

[@josephhalfacre1584]

Is your version of the Phoenix Sorcerer on dnd beyond?

[@josephdellavecchia7828]

Do you post these somewhere?

[@andrewternet8370]

Wouldn't being able to regain Mantle of Flame after Pheonix Spark make you invulnerable unless you die twice on the same round? It seems you should put a caveat that you can only use Pheonix Spark once per long rest.

[@NerdImmersion]

Phoenix Spark does reset once a long rest. The only thing that comes back when Phoenix Spark goes down is Mantle of Flame

[@spudsbuchlaw]

Pheonix Down Sorcerer!

[@ronsorage78]

Why you no have write ups for this

[@sly4164]

You should do Alchemist Artificer. In my opinion it is lacking in comparison to the other subclasses and I feel like you are good at tweaking things so why not request it?

[@flareinc7413]

I wish they would make the Phoenix Sorcerer closer to this than the original. Or even make this. Yeah, some sorcerers need specific spells. Case in point: Why tf doesn't Storm Sorcerer know Call Lightning, Storm Sphere and Storm of Vengeance? They are more Storm Sorcerer spells than any other class.

[@guilhermemonocores4872]

The problem here is that you reward the phoenix sorcerer to fall unconscious in each combat it uses mantle of flame to have it up to have 1 min of original +1 extra minute if he falls unconscious

[@nickh3205]

I love it

[@shiranuiprestonsaga8867]

I think that three sorcery points instead of 5

[@AKitchell]

The link sends me to the wrong page. Please fix this.

[@NerdImmersion]

Which link? If you're referring to the original version of the Phoenix sorcerer from WotC's website, that's gone now.

[@thereaIitsybitsyspider]

Do Draconic Sorcerer next! It's so depressingly bad.

[@PyrotechNick77]

Please Fix the Stone Sorcerer! I will be playing a one in a campaign!!!

[@Trinity0809]

why give fireball and flamestrike? having both makes no sense at all. give 'em immolate, that's not strong either but hella flavorful! yes i know they did it with the wildfire druid, but that's no excuse. the only right for flamestrike to exist is that it's a divine spell and those casters usually dont have access to fireball. now the question is: what is the problem? that fireball is too strong or that flamestrike is too weak.

[@NerdImmersion]

Fair. My thoughts were Fireball is iconic and Flame Strike mixes fire and radiant which I felt fit the phoenix

[@WexMajor82]

No fly spell to the Phoenix sorcerer? Aren't Phoenixes birds?

[@sirachxi3918]

Twin raise dead?

[@NerdImmersion]

I mean I feel like something went pretty poorly if you've got to Twin Raise Dead lol. But that's something a Favored Soul Sorcerer could do, so I don't think it's too crazy

[@UnableToFindName]

That hair tho

[@raidmaster6879]

:)

[@nicimi]

Fix the Old Patreon warlock

[@deafstrike1796]

Hi

[@simisumera1628]

3 gi y6665

[@shawnwilt7196]

I did a remake of this subclass. I made more significant changes that are not OP but are more thematically fitting to the idea of what a Pownix's nature is. 5 SP to use the mantle of flame is way too costly.