Fixing the Finale of Once Upon a Time

[@TheTheorizer]

The "New Enchanted Forest" from S7 has time that goes very fast. It’s not the same rate as the main worlds. But I forgot something: As for the Wish Realm's merged past with the "New Enchanted Forest" (like Alice/Wish Hook or New Hansel/Zelena), that's where it gets confusing. The most likely explanation, is that the INSTANT the Wish Realm was created, the entire fabric of the OUAT multiverse was ripped apart and all of the other universes changed to accommodate for this alternate timeline. Alice, and ALL OTHER things in the “New EF” that were CAUSED by the Wish Realm, probably didn't even exist before 2016 when the Wish Realm was created. The Wish Realm is like a universe that suddenly woke up and butterflied into all realities. The other question, how is Alice is so old if she was born in the New EF (which has weird time)? Well, it's because we’re ONLY shown her age in relation to Wish Hook, who was hopping between universes and time rates. Between the Wish Realm and New EF. Confusing, I know, but there’s the last of the time travel solved. There are three kinds of time travel: One where you CAN change the past (creating new timelines), One where you CANNOT change the past (everything that happened, HAPPENED), and one which is a mix… Like where the universe “Course Corrects”. This third option is seen in OUAT’s S3 finale, and is the crux of shows like “LOST”. It’s the easiest to explain, but OUAT still makes it as complex as it possibly can.

[@miguelvruna1202]

Thank you for all these OUAT videos. Can't wait for the Multiverse one! The OUAT universe is as impressive as the Marvel's.

[@francescocarlini7613]

Some observations to make in random order; first about the United Realms; THEY ARE NOT IN MAINE!!! We have never seen those mountains in the background of Storybrooke, and even if the wiki counts it as a Land Without Magic location, the place is geographically unrecognizable, with no clue given in the show as to where they actually are. Storybrooke appeared out of nothing back in 1983 and it has already vanished back into nothingness once. Since it is a fresh start for everybody, it make sense for the United Realms to be a completely new world. Besides, the point of casting the Last Curse was to reunite all the families that had been scattered across the Multiverse, thus there is absolutely no need to have all the conceivable realms; for instance, Wonderland, Victorian England and Agrabah are there because of Will Scarlett, Alice and Cyrus being all from different worlds, and Oz is there because Ruby and Dorothy are together. Also, I have to differ about the New EF; what clues makes you think that it is a different world altogether? At one point Henry returns to the original EF, but that could just be a sanctuary that the newcomers left intact when they colonized the land. The original Dark Curse left everything in a post-apocalyptic state, with invading Ogres dominating the ruins of once mighty kingdoms and a few island survivors that Cora eventually killed and turned into zombies!!! Reconstrunction could begin only after Zelena defeated the Ogres with her own invading army from Oz, and after that the EF was left completely deserted. After such horrible things have happened, the settlers from outside would have been hesitant to go deep into the forest, instead building a civilization centered on the bayou near the coast. Moreover, Cinderella and Queen Tiana are quite similar, suggesting a common ancestry among dark-skinned settlers. As for the age of Alice (what you actually brought up in the comments, sorry for the digression...) is clear enough to me that Alice was NOT born in the New EF, since she was born when the Dark Curse failed to materialize in the Wish Realm, thus before the New EF could be established by the above theory. In fact I suggest that the Wish Realm have always existed because the whole timeline of the Wish Realm appeared retroactively. Space and Time are one thing called Space-Time, so just like places can appear at a given point in time, so can timelines appear causing reatroactive changes in the sourrounding Realms of existence. An example of that is Wish Hook going to a different Realm to find Gothel's Tower in the past wich affects the Season 6 present in wich the Wish Realm is created and Wish Hook meets Princess Emma.

[@allyjaymarie]

Hey The Theorizer can you do video talking about the world's in Once Upon A Time where time move differently like we're time didn't move it all or moved slowly or quickly like the world were Gideon where went with the black fairy or Neverland or Pleasure Island where Pinocchio and Prince charming David twin brother James went can you do a video talking about those worlds you don't have to do the video if you don't want to

[@TheTheorizer]

@@francescocarlini7613 As Regina cursed them, she said "all of the realms of story, tucked into a forgotten corner of Maine". So yes, the United Realms ARE in Storybrooke. It merged with the terrain.

[@francescocarlini7613]

@@TheTheorizer Regina's phrase sounds rather hyperbolic to me. In fact, people usually do not expect much geographic exactitude from fairy tale characters, and the show never gave us any. Heck, they don't even get the non-fairy tale world right; do you remember when in Season 1 Pinocchio tells Ruby that the temples of Nepal have LEMURS in them? That's insane!!!!!

[@blueestarr16]

Regina compiling all of these different realities and people and stories together does really seem like a recipe for trouble. It kind reminds me of what Alice Said In 7x01 about whenever you interfere with somebody else’s story, bad things will happen.

[@staren1991]

bad things as in the show ending ? ;)

[@newt1110]

I'v understood every Time travel Storyline in every show or movie but when Once Upon a Time did the Time travel plot hole storyline I couldn't understand it but now that you've explained it, it all makes sense!!!

[@princeofsilence6573]

No it doesnt. XD Alice was born after the events of 7x09, when Cecilia (Ella's mother) left to Wonderland because she was poisoned by Gothel. Marcus Tremaine followed her there, but the necklace they shared (the one that glowed if you had true love) stopped glowing and he assumed that she stopped loving him. Later, Alice explains to Ella that the necklace stopped glowing because Cecilia was killed by the Jaberwocky (7x08), but we'll get to that, later... When Alice is born, Gothel escapes the tower, but Alice remains, only escaping on her 17th birthday (7x14). After escaping, Alice goes to New Wonderland, where she meets Cecilia and later, Cecilia dies protecting Alice from the Jaberwocky! But wasn't Cecilia supposed to be dead BEFORE Alice escaped the tower?! Since it was stated in 7x08 that she died around the time Marcus searched for her in Wonderland, the same time Gothel was still trapped in the tower and Alice wasn't even conceived?! PLOT HOLE xD

[@icomeandgobybubble87]

You’re forgetting one thing...yes time moved faster in that realm, but Hope is still a new born in the finale. Lucy is 8, Neal is 10, so my guess, the ending is still 2018. Emma was most likely already pregnant in that scene where she tells Killian that she wants a baby. How I summed it up is Henry, for those in Storybrooke, was only gone for 8 to 9 months...not 5 years.

[@ebbascribbles28]

@Watchtower178 Ig some realms just are that way like Gideon aged 28 years in like some days or whatever it was

[@merelgielis8255]

when did emma tell hook she wanted a baby?

[@mr.manguy3692]

Yeah Neal should be about a year older than Robin

[@pancakesxoxo1064]

​@@merelgielis8255 I think they mean when she told Henry that she was pregnant.

[@tyrelllegacy6707]

I nEED MORE OUAT. I wish they make a 8S or a reboot in the future

[@courtneymichelle5746]

The probably/hopefully will. The show was just way to popular to not do something again even if it were just a movie or short

[@helena5590]

i need more of will scarlet

[@famke3072]

Just watch it again, and again😝

[@marisasalamunovic9929]

@Mirantia i mean they have every single realm to ever exist in that show in storybrooke now, they could probablt create a problem big enough to make something out of it

[@houselemuellan8756]

No, not a reboot. They'd fuck it up

[@sophiadamilova9378]

Imagine taking history in the United Realms like props to them

[@kgunbox2605]

AP UR History. I’d take that test lmaooo

[@anujjain5807]

@@kgunbox2605 Someone answer my question. 1)Wish Realm Hook had child with Gothel in wish realm.So How come When wish realm Hook Comes to New Enchanted forest,her daughter is also in New Enchanted Forest. Same goes for other characters..If Gothel ,Rapunzel etc werr in wish realm then how all of 'em suddenly came to New enchanted forest. 2)Zelena was never the part of regina's Ist curse.Then why didnt zelena aged even a bit in that 28 years.She looks Young as hell

[@kgunbox2605]

Anuj Jain Magic is the answer to your questions💀

[@anujjain5807]

@@kgunbox2605 but that's a bit absurb to 1st question.....please explain properly

[@kgunbox2605]

Anuj Jain Sarcasm, dude...

[@matilda2594]

I wonder what happend to Zelena when she and Chad went back to San Francisco...

[@naanaboateng5393]

Tell me why I watched OUAT with very little confusion but after watching this video I’m more confused then ever. You make me want to rewatch it just to understand it 😂😂😂 I’m not saying that you over complicated it but I think you opened my eyes more.

[@marisasalamunovic9929]

i just finished season 7 a few days ago (I admit, i was late to the game) and it's fresh in my mind, but like you i am even more confused than before

[@timrob12]

Video: We have all realms, all worlds... Me: Just say Disneyland, because that's what it is, minus the rides.

[@ellynewman3717]

Season 7 really screwed everything up

[@Evemoi87]

I think that about sums it up.

[@pancakesxoxo1064]

Season 7 doesn't exist to me

[@ryugalaw]

I must admit. I've followed OUaT religiously when it was airing. I also found explanations for everything including all timelines and the wish Realm included. I was always wondering why people say it's retconned. I see it was pretty consistent, but the issue was that the writers didn't explain WELL. They explain things lazily so you need to make effort to understand. HOWEVER, that last curse Regina did was the most confusing shit I've seen. Like what the hell is this? Why do this in the first place, like what's the reasoning behind it? I have no idea what problem that solves.

[@iRazenrak]

Regina would definitely have a problem with Henry aging decades in a matter of years to her.

[@CeltycSparrow]

OR.....here's another alternative. True Love is what broke the original curse in season 1......what IF, True Love broke the curse again in this timeline? (and this IS confirmed when Regina wakes up and tells Henry "You did it....you BROKE THE CURSE". When older Henry kisses his mother it is CLEARLY True Loves Kiss (much like when Emma kissed him).....and WHEN he kisses her, everybody gets their memories back. If you listen, Hook is no longer "Mr. Rogers"....he's Captain Hook again. Alice and Robin recognize each other again. What if Henry's Kiss made Gothel's cursed realm vanish and they all returned to their original selves and Regina united them all in one Kingdom where she reigns as Queen?

[@lilyfilms9398]

I think you are on to something! This makes a lot of sense!

[@heretohavefun5646]

What? Please reword everything.

[@flaviumaxin8056]

I don't know what to say about this. We can clearly see Hook and Nook, Henry and Sir Henry and others in the final scene from the United Realms.

[@CeltycSparrow]

@@flaviumaxin8056 Yes....because when Regina made the last curse, she united everybody in one kingdom. She wanted everybody to be together again. And as we saw earlier in the season....characters from different times (i.e. real Hook and wish Hook) CAN co-exist together side by side.

[@michellegaleroux5617]

👌🏻

[@isaiahnytes5405]

Why is this posted a year after the season ending? I mean I’m in love with the video and series so thank you

[@enricobasbas7221]

We have to admit it is difficult to move on from Once Upon A Time. First, because it is so great. Second, because it really failed in polishing and planning out the story. When you know the answer is wrong, it's really hard to find a way to explain that it is right.

[@OnceUponaReaction]

Wow you deserve an award for trying to figure the time line out 👏👏 it has a lot of sense but there's something tricky: baby hope... anyway I think the writers didn't have enough time to explain everything, I remember the show had the cancelation notice when they were filming around the 16 episode (I don't remember so we'll😅) so...they ending was kind of rush but it manage to be special as the show deserved itself.... I gave up the possibility on finding a reasonable explanation for everything 😄

[@katiem6154]

1. my theory is that season 7 is just an alternate reality that henry is either dreaming about or created with his author powers 2. disney plus maybe adding ouat to it and/or making a reboot of it 3. season 7 should have not been made, it makes everything more confusing 4. the finale of season 6 and 7 should have been combined to make everything better and less confusing

[@cxncxrtmxstxr]

If Season 7 wasn't a massive failure of softly rebooting the show, then we wouldn't have this mess. Henry shouldn't have a storyline similar to Snowing and his daughter shouldn't have a story similar to him. They should all have a new storyline altogether.

[@DumbPplAnnoyMe]

yep, S7 is the encore nobody asked for.

[@roseculmer6215]

The timelines in season seven kind of confused me. Like I wasn't sure if in the end they were in the original timeline or if they were still in the past.

[@paulae4033]

I'm still waiting for that grand time line video

[@luisdiaspires7618]

Maybe we need to concider that characters in season 7 time travelled more than once like when robin left to nef being 18! The black fairy did say that the final battle would end the laws of magic. I dunno about them being over but maybe bend down a little

[@mari-khaleesi]

I understand the fact that Henry traveled throughout another realm and aged quicker in comparison to Emma, Hook, Regina, etc. So when he leaves in 2018 he's his 18 year old self and the next time they see him he's a lot older. So by the time Emma is pregnant my understanding is that not a lot of time has passed (relative to Emma) since Emma has seen Henry. I mean this goes with what the video says I believe. (2-4 years I'd say is a good approximation for that time span of Henry leaving and the curse happening) Now to the part that doesn't make sense to me: Robin grew up in Storybrook. She went to school, and then ended up having her own adventures meeting Alice and such. It makes sense up to this point that she was cursed just like everyone else. In the finale, she goes back to Storybrook in 2018 and sees her past self and her mom. I mean that's the age she's supposed to be. If the Storybrook gang haven't aged that many years I don't understand why Robin is at the age she's at. Like Emma would be way older if that's the case and Hope would be much older. Can someone explain what's up with that? Idk man maybe I'm missing something cause I really don't wanna re-watch season 7. It was just as disappointing as Game of Thrones. (Well with the exception that I had more high expectations for GOT and not for OUAT)

[@chemicalxr786]

It's like they rushed the series. I was so annoyed because no matter how we try to break it down, it makes no sense. Robin was in storybrooke and she clearly said she was 18. Well that being the case Neil would be 20. Hope would be no younger than 10, if not older. Say time did move faster in the ef still don't explain Robin's age Gap compared to everyone else in storybrooke. Srry

[@chemicalxr786]

Like Robin becomes older than Neil. When she was in storybrooke. The only storybrooke

[@icomeandgobybubble87]

Henry is technically still 18. He aged instantly in that realm. Yes, time moved differently and faster, but for Storybrooke, he was only gone for 7 months. It’s still 2018 in Storybrooke and Hope was born May 2018.

[@anujjain5807]

@@icomeandgobybubble87 Someone answer my question. 1)Wish Realm Hook had child with Gothel in wish realm.So How come When wish realm Hook Comes to New Enchanted forest,her daughter is also in New Enchanted Forest. Same goes for other characters..If Gothel ,Rapunzel etc werr in wish realm then how all of 'em suddenly came to New enchanted forest. 2)Zelena was never the part of regina's Ist curse.Then why didnt zelena aged even a bit in that 28 years.She looks Young as hell

[@hannahmcguffin314]

@@anujjain5807 1) Alice was seen chasing the white rabbit in one of the episodes, so she was probably realm hopping(See what I did there?) 😂 Also with the other ones, I have no idea. 2) She stayed in the original enchanted forest/OZ, Plus I think time went slower there. But honestly that's just a theory.

[@ompatel187]

I’ve always believed that even after the curse broke, everyone involved in the curse had slowed aging. That explains why Henry ages, but everyone else doesn’t.

[@francistv1016]

"That is indeed a complicated story. The timelines alone would make one's head spin. Only a true author could weave such a tale."

[@luisdiaspires7618]

Timeline Storybrooke 2011 Emma is 28 when she breaks the curse, Henry is 10 and Regina 32. 2014 Camelot arc, Henry said he was 13. This makes Emma 32 and Regina 36. Neal was born in the previous season, when Henry was stated to be 12 years old, so here he should be a 1 year old toddler. Baby Robin is born to Zelena. 2015 Final Battle. The wish realm is created. 2018 Henry leaves Storybrooke after graduation, he is 17, which means Emma is 36 and Regina is 40. Robin is 4 years old (which makes no sense because in 7x22 when Margot and Tilly went to SB from the past, she said the little girl in Zelena’s car was her younger self who was 5 years old. But lets assume 4 years old is the right age.) Neal is 5 years old. Via time traveling, Margot and Tilly convince Zelena to help them in the Wish Realm. 2019 Hope is born. 2032 Robin leaves for the New Enchanted Forest, she’s 18 years old. Zelena follows along. Timeline Wish Realm 0 Regina fails to cast the dark curse and helps Hook find a way to trap Rumpel by traveling to a new realm. Snow and Charming have baby Emma and everyone lives “happily ever after”, Regina is banished shortly after this. 28 Emma is found by original Regina, the later frees Rumpel who starts haunting the realms. They go back to SB and bring Robin along. 31 The heroes fight Wish Rumpel and he dies. Regina casts the Good Curse, uniting the realms. Timeline New Enchanted Forest 0 Rapunzel is sent to the tower saving Anastasia, Marcus and Drizella. 6 Rapunzel is finally free and meets with Anastasia who is 14 years old, Ella who is 14 more or less and Drizella is 10. Rapunzel traps Gothel in the tower, she poisons Cecilia who Marcus follow to Wonderland, coming back shortly after his failed quest. Hook has Alice and decided to abandon pirating to raise his child. Gothel is free from the tower, she explains how Rapunzel was the one responsible for her prison. 23 Alice is 17 and she’s free from the tower, she travels throughout the realms and ends up in Wonderland where she meets Cecilia, Ella’s mother. ? Henry meets Cinderella, Regina and Hook arrive to the rescue. ? Drizella is frozen in stone. ? Lucy is born and peace is established. ? Zelena and Robin arrive. ? Robin meets Alice. ? Lucy is 8 when the curse is cast. Since Regina was 40 when she first arrived to the New Enchanted Forest and spent 8 years or so here, she’s about 48 when the curse is cast. Timeline Seattle 2015 Everyone is sent here due to the curse’s time traveling nature. (because later in 7x21, Lucy says they lost 3 celebrations together.) 2018 The curse is broken. Margot and Tilly go to SB to ask for help as the rest of the heroes are in the Wish Realm. Timeline United Realms 2019 Regina is crowned the Good Queen and Hope is a newborn baby. The original Henry is out looking for his own story in the original Enchanted Forest. Speaking of ages, Regina is 52, Emma is 37. Past Zelena and past Robin are here as well but the question remains…when Robin turns 18 won’t she travel to NEF? This is really confusing and I can’t see an explanation for this. As for young Henry, he is traveling the realms…maybe there’s another version of SB and the other realms out there, the original past versions were preserved to prevent paradoxes and the United Realms hold the people from 2018 like Emma, original Hook and baby Hope but Zelena and young Robin are….I dunno! My mind just exploded right now.

[@Zack-bt3mk]

@Mitchell Black I like your theory that Regina sent everyone to their "correct" time lines (i.e. the Storybrooke equivalent of when the Coven cast the curse) so that pasts wouldn't be erased. This would also explain why there aren't 2 Reginas running around ("young" Mayor Mills + Roni who cast the curse). Regarding that Hope issue -- we were never told if Hope is the same baby Emma was pregnant with earlier on. This could be a different baby.

[@TheScarletAlchemist]

I love this! Please do more Once content!! There's not nearly enough online.

[@kimberlyl.lockwood1407]

I usually don't comment because I'm weird and still think my english is bad but I just wanted to say I am so glad that I stumbled over your channel a few years ago after looking for someone explaining the OUAT relatioships after I miserably failed to explain them to my friends. OUAT videos are still my favourites of yours and I really admire all the effort you put in all of your videos!

[@arielsteinsaltz1956]

Good theory, I have been very confused about all the timeline and wish realm stuff for a long time. But I still have a few questions about things that don't quite seem to fit with this explanation: What about teenage Robin in Storybrooke, in what had to be at least like 2030? Doesn't that mean that there was people shown in Storybrooke later, that the time dilation in the new Enchanted Forest isn't that severe, and that they would have actually been stuck in the past? Did they travel back in time to join the new EF? Much confusion there. On the same Robin note, there's a young Robin in 2018 Storybrooke, and if Robin was still in SB as a teenager, then isn't there still a 7-8 year old Robin in 2023 that exists at the same time as her older self? Yeah basically it's all Robin, her story makes no sense. Like, Alice was born around the time the Dark Curse was cast and presumably I guess didn't age during it even though we don't have any evidence of the curse affecting the new EF but whatever, so she'd be however long that realm had after the curse was cast--a long time with time dilation, if that is a thing, but then she's still young and Robin is still the same age as her. And finally a more minor one--if it was 2020 when Emma, Regina, and Hook visited Henry in the new EF, and then Emma and Hook went back, and it's 2023 in the finale, how is Hope still a baby? She looked at most like 6 months old, and she'd have to be between 1.5-2 at minimum.

[@ilayazouri9897]

I don't think that the wish realm was a part of the "United Realms" because it exists in a parallel universe that divided from the original by the queen's wish. I also think that all of the other versions Henry was talking about (such as the French Italian etc) are non existent because they are just an adaptation of the original books written by the chosen author. That's why I think the the New Enchanted Forest was also an adaptation book that came into existence after henry entered the book or used his pen thus creating this new alternative reality and timeline that continued evolving after Henry entered and changed things which cause more diversion from the original characters and because it had turned into a new world such as Fairy Tale Land and the Land Without Magic it was added to the new United Realms . But I think that the Wonderland featured in s7 is the same wonderland that was featured before both in the show and the sequel because it's a whole different world that's not connected to the Fairy Tale Land.

[@Zack-bt3mk]

I like this theory, and I like that the young Henry we see at the coronation isn't Wish Henry but really simply Young Henry. But if that is the case, how did the characters from the Wish Realm get back to Storybrooke?

[@vyaskoduvayur6887]

Thank you so much for explaining this! What I also think is that 2018 Snow, charming and zelena took a memory potion as not to disrupt the future...

[@Tamtambat]

I need more of this. Please need waiting on your next OUAT video!! 🥰

[@avaughn828]

It makes sense but it also sounds like Avengers Endgame and OUAT had similar ploy twists with time travel etc

[@1GungGung]

Storybrooke is basically a TARDIS at this point. That is to say, it's bigger on the inside of the barrier than the outside. Agrabah was actually through the looking glass with Wonderland initially, not part of the regular Enchanted Forest. Also I think only Wish Henry and Wish Hook are in the United Realms. The Wish universe still has the separated Evil Queen and Wish Robin together there (which helps to explain why there weren't two versions of Regina's Castle, two versions of the Emerald City, etc. in the overview of the final curse). You cleaned up the timeline nicely (and gave a good explanation of Snow, Charming, and Zelena just staying quiet when they got back to avoid an obvious paradox) but the Wish Realm itself and some alternate Realms likely didn't get folded into the new Curse. I think just the realms that the prime Henry interacted with were joined. Or rather those with hearts from each of those realms contributed a little piece of themselves to craft the Final Curse and that integrated them into the new United Realms.

[@kgunbox2605]

The Looking Glass is just a portal to Wonderland. Or else whenever Regina broke the glass in S1 when she pushed Cora through, Wonderland would’ve been destroyed

[@apolloumbra3312]

I feel like Once Upon A Time would’ve gone on much longer if Jennifer Morrison hadn’t left... however it’s got endless opportunities for spinoffs so maybe in 10 years we’ll all be watching again

[@kgunbox2605]

Preach

[@emeraldemperor2601]

I have never seen the autocaptions actually work before, i guess your voice is just perfect for them

[@amandagillam8380]

Thank you! For finally explaining this for me. It's been bugging me. I never got to see the final few seasons as Australian television stopped showing it so I recently streamed the entire series and have been trying to nut it out ever since.

[@shaystylez]

Still waiting for the Grand Timeline video, but YES! S7 of OUAT got confusing as heck and they didn't even bother to try and take their time explaining away anything. I think that once Henry broke the curse in S7, it broke the timeline mess that aged him up so fast in the first place. Because the Regina in Seattle is the SAME 2018 Regina. But yeah, I think once Henry broke Gothel's timeline curse, it shattered the reality that the 2018 people of storybrooke knew of Henry about to graduate from High School. But once again, the writers didn't try and make sense of the timeline mess, so I really don't know.

[@Pur9leRain]

Keep them coming because the confusion and intrigue “thrills” me

[@slateoffate9812]

"Isn't time travel and different answers to unanswered questions across different medias frustrating?" *puts on Faction Paradox mask* You say that like it's a bad thing, when, honestly, it's the best thing there is.

[@darkwolf24498]

I don't know if this is a coincidence or a theory. But I just watched the newest Mary Poppins and she was singing about. Pirates who still and never grow old.

[@grievousart]

My idea about the universes is that when Regina cast the final curse she created a new realm outside of Maine. Different from the the enchanted forest or Earth

[@kgunbox2605]

Mirantia Maybe she meant in a forgotten corner of The United States as in Maine itself lol

[@noydodo8476]

We found out Emma was preagnant when Regina left storybrook If this is corect, and in storybrook it has been 5 years since than, Hope, Emma and Hook's baby was soposed to be around 4 but she still was s baby..

[@naanaboateng5393]

Noy Dodo I bet the writers confused themselves that they just went with what they thought was right 😂😂😂

[@livingfashionable]

My only problem with this timeline theory is the ages of some of the characters. Like Neal was one of the first baby characters born and Robin was one of the last. But we see Robin in Storybrooke as a teen and we are told she is 18 but Neal is still a kid. How does that make sense if Neal is older than her?

[@BrandonLandrum]

When you think about it Henry’s half sister should be older than Lucy because Emma was pregnant before he married Cinderella

[@Mitskienthusiast]

No because the 10-15 years with Andrew Henry would’ve only been 1 year for Emma and Hook

[@dantdma932]

Can you do a theory on a series of unfortunate events

[@TheTheorizer]

I plan to

[@dantdma932]

@@TheTheorizer ok

[@PolyBiBadger]

DanTDM a what kind of theories?

[@dantdma932]

@@PolyBiBadger any theroy like where is the sugar bowl

[@555droid6]

So old henry and young henry exist at the same time in the same world?? How the bloody hell would that work. I mean if things get changed then young Henry would never end up doing the exact same thing as old henry so then wouldnt old henry change? Like wouldnt something like the grandfather paradox happen?? I am so confused...

[@yuffiehighwind]

Branched timeline

[@booksaremysociallife]

maybe regina made 2018 zelena, charming and snow take a forgetting potion? maybe even left a note for zelena to take robin somewhere where she'll age up appropriately so that the storyline will progress. that's the only way things make sense to me lmao.

[@detritusofseattle]

This timeline is all sorts of confusing. Also the egg on Zelena's face. She wanted to time travel. Turns out she could have just hijacked Regina's dark curse, spiced it up a bit, and boom, time travel. This does raise one question though: Why does Mother Gothel choose this specific time in world history to send them to in the curse? Why 2018, and why specifically Seattle? For that matter, why Maine in the original curse? I kinda understand rural Maine, as it you could have a town just pop into existence there and it not be noticed- especially if, after its appearance, it was hidden with other spells. But Seattle seems like an odd place for the curse to take them. It requires altering an existing city, and doing a whole lot more warping of the land without magic in order to make it work.

[@pancakesxoxo1064]

Drizzela (indirectly) talked about how they wanted to bring in people from the real world and make this curse a part of the real world to make it even more harder to break.(unlike storybrooke which was a unknown place to outsiders) They travelled back in 2018 so the real hero's (Emma, Snow, Charming) wouldn't know or be able to reach them. (Idk why they chose 2018 as the specific year though) Also idk how Snow and Charming ended up into the wish world (or it's just that they were looking for them in the wish world and happened to find them on the right time) (This is just my explanation)

[@AdrianaFashion10]

How do you explain Robin growing up 18 years in storybrooke before going to the New EF?

[@sxftie5006]

Wait so that means when Regina and hook went to save Henry it was 2 years later so like after 7 YEARS of being married Emma and hook were finally going to have a baby (because of the time Henry left after they married and the 2 years passed in SB when Henry was already in the NEF). The thing is, if Regina’s coronation in the finale took place in SB 2023 that means Emma’s child is like 2 years old but she looks like a newborn. Explanation plz

[@marisasalamunovic9929]

i was having the same thoughts

[@luisdiaspires7618]

Finally!!!!!! I waited more than a year for this!!!!!

[@kevinwaag9976]

Damnn!! that's the finale ?!? a new mix of all the realm in one?!? damn i really didn't expect this !

[@hikmatsorour9095]

Yeah I stopped at season 6, as far as I'm concerned that's where it ends

[@romeblanchard3419]

Same, I consider the diner scene as the series finale

[@marisasalamunovic9929]

yeah i would've been fine without season 7. except for the fact that there's baby hope now. i needed that

[@tomyfort1232]

I don't get why they introduced time travel in an already complicated fairy tale world. The whole thing isn't needed and watching this video it's super confusing.

[@jaimiesullivan6146]

But what happened to Regina's "Evil Half" and Wish Realm Robin Hood?

[@Elvisfan2026]

And I loved seeing outlawqueen again

[@courtneymichelle5746]

Okay the thing that confuses me is the first curse😐 Wasn’t time frozen? So wouldn’t it be obvious if Henry was growing up but no one else was? Maybe it was explained but everytime I watch it thats all i think about because I doyenne understand at all😂

[@chemicalxr786]

It is explained. Henry speaks on it when trying to convince Emma. He was the only one growing up and noticed that as he got older.

[@vhull1]

Henry was born in our world and was brought to Storybrooke after the curse

[@SeanWheeler100]

Not noticing that only Henry ages was part of the curse.

[@Bman-dr8hx]

why then is wish henry not played by Andrew J west and if it was wish realm 2023 that was brought in, and if it was 2023 shouldn't prince neal be older then what he looks in the final. Emma was pregnant when Regina and Hook left to save Henry. By the finally she's holding the baby. try to explain that.

[@TheTheorizer]

Damn now I have to make a part two haha!

[@icomeandgobybubble87]

Exactly! You’re right about the time in the realm Henry went to. He did age because time moved faster. But in no way is the finale 5 years after Henry left. It had to still be 2018. He forgot about Hope. Hope Swan - Jones was a new born in the finale. He said the finale had to have taken place in 2023 and that it was 5 years after Henry left. No way would Hope be a new born. My guess, Emma was pregnant before Henry left. When she told Killian she wanted a child, she was already pregnant but did not know yet. This was just before Henry left. First, no way would Emma and Killian Wait 5 years after that to have a child when they talked about it before Henry left. No way would they wait that long. My guess, Henry was gone for 7 to 8 months...not 5 years, and the finale is still 2018. Hope is a new born, Neal is 10, Lucy is 8. Emma was pregnant before Lucy was even thought of.

[@icomeandgobybubble87]

@Mirantia Right? Technically, if they were all n the same time frame, Hope and Neal would be older tha Lucy. Emma was pregnant with Hope before Henry even got together with Ella. So, yes, Regina's last curse obviously brought them back to 2018, the true time in Storybrooke. While the realm that Henry went to was 2023, the entire time, in Storybrooke, it was still current times (2018)

[@Buffy8Fan]

The one thing I understand as being a constant in trying to understand time travel of any kind is that putting dates to the events, etc. is how it becomes confusing. Just identify what time period (past, present, future etc.) the events are in and there is far less confusion already. Dates don't need to matter too much.

[@dreamcatcherjmo]

I was a big fan of ouat for years, watched the first 6 seasons ages ago but last week I finally decided to give season 7 a watch too. I enjoyed it but I was SO confused by the end and thankfully this explains most of it. The only thing I still don't get is how Robin was shown to be 18 in Storybrooke right before they came to the new enchanted forest but then she was 5 in the finale?? it doesn't make sense.. I usually loved how complicated this show was but this season just had too many plotholes and they shouldn't have made it so complicated since they knew it would probably be the last season.

[@jennifernewkirk4747]

I thought the United Realms were limited to the people who were with Regina in the finale before she cast her curse. I also believed that the new Wonderland is not ‘new’. It’s the same Wonderland that Jefferson went to, otherwise he wouldn’t have met Alice. Regina kept Wish Hook, because he’s Alice’s father. There’s also the Hook Emma married. Robin and Alice didn’t get Storybrooke Zelena to help fight Wish Rumple, she just took Robin and Alice to Snow and Charming. Storybrooke Zelena eventually moves to the NEF sometime after Robin learns to drive. What about Wish Cruella and Wish Peter Pan, who are imprisoned in Wish Rumple’s castle? Maybe Wish James is still alive. I think the Wish Realm was created long before the EQ wished that Emma was never the Savior, since it has a past. Even after watching this video, I’m still confused and I think this guy made it worse!

[@Riskofrain527]

The curse somehow took them back in time despite not having all the ingredients to make one so it's either a plothole or a retcon.

[@TheTheorizer]

It was differently enacted. The Dark Curse can be completely modded depending on how it is cast. The Black Fairy used ONLY Dark Fairy Dust. The Coven of the Eight used a collective power to prevent a crushed heart, and replaced other ingredients as well. It allowed them the benefit of time travel.

[@Riskofrain527]

@@TheTheorizer up until season 6 the dark curse required you to crush the heart of the thing you loved most. Season 6 and 7 being the worst seasons decide to retcon it.

[@christoskounadhs8475]

I also think the Wish Realm existed before the EQ’s wish. Before I thought it was just memories and the wish happened to give Wish Hook a child. But then I realised that Gothel was there to have the child. So I assume that the Wish Realm existed before The Wish. The Wish simply altered the story to fit Emma and Henry. I know I prolly missed a couple of details that’s just my headcanon to deal with the mindfuck that was the Season 7 finale.

[@anagiannasi5791]

To me, OUAT ended in season 6. That's it. I completely ignore the existence of another season.

[@angelinavanderzwet2090]

yep

[@theofficialVEVOformu]

Well it didn’t so get over it.

[@pancakesxoxo1064]

It wasn't that bad honestly. I originally wasn't going to watch season 7 after reading all the comments. But if u ignore or the weird timelines and time travel stuff. The storyline is really good on it's own. I personally liked Rumple and Belle's storyline, the Rapunzel, New hook and Alice storyline. Wish Rumple and og Rumple. Og Rumple and New Hook. Even the storyline of Wish Henry. I don't want to give too much away. But I think it's worth a watch.

[@wonderbouter8906]

So according to your theory, if the Emma, Hook, and Hope are the 2023 versions, this means that Henry traveled to new EF, got a visit from Regina, Hook, and Emma (who announced she was pregnant), met and married Cinderella, had Lucy, and raised her until she was about 8 years old- all of that took the same amount of time for the full term of Emma's pregnancy to play out in Storybrook, since Hope is still a newborn at the end scene. That's quite a bit of time dilation indeed

[@TheTheorizer]

It’s around 1 = 10 years. This means Gothel is approximately 5 billion years old.

[@timriggins70]

Storybooke is bigger on the inside than on the outside like The Doctor's Tardis.

[@saintfighteraqua]

I know she says she brought all the realms to Maine and we see many of them, but it would have made more sense if she had created a gateway similar to Jefferson's hat that just allowed people to travel freely between realms. I'm guessing Storybrooke became a pocket dimension of its own that expanded to hold all worlds with Maine. We need at least two seasons more just to figure all of this out... But hey, at least we know who Lily's father is...

[@yuffiehighwind]

My headcanon is Storybrooke is like a town sized nexus. You drive into it from Earth and then can take boats or cars or zeppelins to the other realms instead of requiring portals anymore.

[@yuffiehighwind]

My theory of course contradicts canon but you would disrupt millions and millions of peoples lives dragging pieces of their worlds into Maine

[@saintfighteraqua]

@@yuffiehighwind I agree

[@helena5590]

i'm so sorry for all of the characters that exist in the once upon a time world

[@armanmahmood9783]

the only show that has confusing family trees, timelines and worlds I love this show sometimes

[@christoskounadhs8475]

I believe that it’s not really in Maine. More like a pocket universe in Maine and Storybrooke per se is the “gate”. I also feel like Regina didn’t involve everyone. Just Fairytale Land and New Fairytale Land. Not Wish Realm from the simple fact that the Evil Queen and Wish Robin and everyone’s wish duplicates didn’t appear in the final scene. Cause it doesn’t make sense that the EQ wouldn’t attend her own coronation.

[@christoskounadhs8475]

And she probably brought young Wish Henry with her for taking his family away.

[@christoskounadhs8475]

Mirantia yeah I agree. Just a pocket universe in Maine if that makes sense. Cause that last scene where we see all the realms together didn’t make much sense

[@MichielBLKorte]

I have an OUAT theory: How did Ivy manage to travel back in time in Season 7? We learn from Belle it's very hard. Every time travel spell requires a symbol of innocence, love, courage and wisdom. Time-travel is very linked to Oz, as each of the four witches there represents one of these four. Also, the only other witch to cause the curse is from Oz: Zelena. What if the Witch of the East or the North is one of the unknown members of the Coven of the Eight. What if she brought symbols of herself and her sisters from Oz and help Ivy concoct a scheme to make time-travel a part of the curse? BTW: The S7 curse is so tricky. How can it suddenly travel back in time? If we only need magic from someone who has already sacrificed the thing she loved most why did Regina crush Charming's heart at the second curse. Why was that necessary? What other ingredients are required for a Dark curse? There are eight in total.

[@csdufoupdates5502]

Keep up the good work 😉 😁

[@Daemon1995_]

just finished it on netflix before it goes away, i had stopped watching after season 6 since it felt like a true ending but damn season 7 was such a mess lmao but still had some good moments but def not as good as the others

[@icomeandgobybubble87]

@ TheTheorizer The finale took place in current times, meaning 2018. Henry was all together gone from Storybrooke for 7 months, and Instantly aged through that portal as time moved faster in that realm. In Storybrooke it was still 2018 and Emma had just given birth to Hope around the finale. No way was it 5 years later as she’d be older, and it’s obvious it’s not them from the past. It’s current Emma, Killian, and Hope.

[@RekaCath]

I saw it this way Our world: 1 Fairytale world: 2 Wish realm: 3 New Realm:4 The people from 2, aside from Emma, Neil, Pinnochio and Henry, never aged. The people in 3 did. Only Emma, Pinnochio and Henry are still the same age in both worlds. (Neill wasn't in 3) Wish Hook is thus 28 years older than normal Hook. Now, Alice was born about half a year after Regina's defeat. Which makes her less than two years younger then Emma, if she had stayed in that realm. In the mean time, Zelena and Robin lived 28 years in the future, same timespeed, but because of travelling between realms, Alice and Robin are the same ageb but I'll get back to that. Hook, in the meantime, became younger. Ages at this point: Henry was about 23 Alice 16 Robin 16 Hook earth 1 is still 28 years younger then earth 3, but they now look the same. Emma was pregnant, and about 33. Belle had lived the rest of her entire life in a couple of years, and Gideon has grown up. We don't know where they were before the place where the sun never sets, but time there moved even faster then it did on 4, as Belle died even before Henry met Cinderella. Because we know that time moves different between universes anyway, we can assume that Alice has spent some time in a realm where time moves slower. Now, Henry hasn't actually aged all that much in between leaving and meeting Cinderella, leading me to believe that he has spent some time in other realms where time moved differently as well. Now, that was the complicated part, but eventually the curse happens. Everyone is sent back in time, to before Emma gets even pregnant, so now Lucy is years older then her aunt and uncle. There are now two Henry's walking around. Henry from 3 is of course the age of the original '2018'. It is unclear how much time passes between them landing and the season finaly, but at least a year passed, and Henry has already left at least. The big problem is Regina from the original timeline. The merging of the realms has to happen after she left, unless there are two Regina's walking around. As a result, I've got the final scene placed about 1 year after the finale. Just enought time for Emma to get pregnant and original Regina to leave.

[@jamiehorne5519]

With All the Realms in one would it Include Underbrooke/The Underworld/Hell

[@Buffy8Fan]

I don't remember finding the last season or the last episode confusing when I watched it, but this theory was so confusing my head hurt.

[@kelvinvillegas5310]

1) Shouldn't there be 3 Henrys in the Finale? (A) Wish realm Henry (B) Older Henry (C) storybrooke henry. Why do we only see two? 2) Shouldn't there also be two Regina's at the end? Seatle Regina and Storybrooke Regina...Which one becomes Queen? 3) HERE IS THE REAL PUZZLING ONE: Think of that episode where it has a flashback to girl Robin giving Alice a bracelet. The one where Rumple is going to give the dagger to Alice as the guardian. How could girlRobin even exist in that realm (Which I imagine was the wish realm) since wish Hook was there with his daughter Alice? In the wish realm the Robin Hood there died? Robin Hood is of course the father of girlRobin....We see that the young girlRobin is in Storybrooke when the older girlRobin goes there. But how is it possible for girlRobin to have been in the wish realm in the flashback? Also why was Rumple even in the wish realm? Thank You....This has been my Ted Talk!

[@Evemoi87]

2) And the Evil Queen who has presumably married Wish Robin?

[@Dij7897]

Wow 2018 seems like 20 years ago after all the craziness we went through to get to the present 2023. Love your channel still and now I’m inspired to make a KZbin channel to share my love for OUAT 😍🤩🥰

[@No-by7wu]

Can we just agree S7 isn’t canon? 😞

[@Sackquaza]

I believe that the United Realms does include the Underworld, but we do not see it above ground as it is a realm that is underground(buried). It would be accessible via portal or the mines beneath Storybrooke if this is the case.

[@Rambo_N_Sons]

I’m even more confused now. Lol I knew a lot of the season 7 didn’t make since, but now I’m like woah… they messed it up bad.

[@lucariomew365]

I'm still confused as to why Regina ended uo raisinf WR Henry. Emma is the only character w/o a true WR duplicate, as she was wished into another life which created nrw memories and a nrw persona for her, as well as the entirety of WR. As such, Emma is the mother of WR Henry, and unlike the OG, raised him - technically he just came into being with the entire background story/history, but as far as his entire life is concerned, he was raised by his bio-mother.

[@blakepeters4137]

Theorizer. Can you please explain how Dan from Dino Dan can see dinosaurs? He can see Dinosaurs but no one else can. Besides his little brother Trec. And they impact the real world.

[@soniarodriguez1462]

Do you think you could rate your top main character in ouat through the years? Even the ones that died like Cora, and Pan. Does that make since?

[@AidenXJeffreySkits]

This is very interesting. I never thought of time being dilated (I really don't know nor do I care for time travel). I actually compiled a post of theories about the entire timeline from the pilot to the series finale, sans dilation. But I will say this, even though the show ended in 2018 Henry actually left Storybrooke in 2020 as he was 18. If he left in 2018 then he would have been 16. I left a link as a reply to this comment.

[@AidenXJeffreySkits]

oncepodcast.com/forums/topic/final-timeline-and-ages/

[@ThePinkDragon]

So glad you Still remember ONCE

[@ThePinkDragon]

You forgot Rumple in Settle

[@baba-yaga8986]

Ohhhhh my god actually thank you so much. Please make a video on the lands and kingdoms in the enchanted forest and all the different realms. I thought they were always like a solar system and each portal jump was just traveling to another planet. It would be rly interesting to see ur theory tho

[@doggoaj4796]

THANK YOU SO MUCH. This video makes everything clear to me! I actually understand!

[@thegodofimagination]

I knew once upon a time wasn't dead long live oncers woooooooooooooooooooooo. Also you presume it has OZ 9:54 it right there.

[@MistarZtv]

Once: Crisis on Infinite Realms.

[@ednamodee]

If they make a S8 or Reboot I’m going to cry

[@appigreen1559]

I do not think time is different in the new enchanted forest. we know that actors in oaut are of 3 kinds for the same characters: children, teen ad adult. Every adult actor started playing his character from 17-18 years old (Emma, Gina, Snow etc). I think that when henry meets Ella he's nearly 20 years old. For 2 reasons: Hook, Emma and Gina did not aged and it is impossibile that Emma and Hook wait so long before doing a baby. Infact i think that when Emma realizes that Henry is ready to leave, she starts to desire a new baby. A confusing thing is when zelina says that robin did not grow up too fast "for that realm". What does she mean? Where they live? We know that they lived in Storybrooke for at least 18 years. And that when they added to the group Robin is 25. So, when Lucy is 8, henry should be 38. If in the NEF the time was quicker, he should be oldest than this: impossibile! Other problem: where Nook and Gothel are when they do Alice. 1- Nook traveled to find the flower in the NEF or 2- Gothel went to WW (not impossibile, she's a witch). Last problem: Zelina of finale is the Seattle Zelina or the Storybrooke Zelina? Or both? I like to think that the Seattle Zelina is happy and married with her fiancè, so she should be Storybrooke Zelina. But where is 5 Robin? And Rumple, Belle and Gideon? They should be there if we are in 2017....

[@kayceemosely6586]

Rumple, Belle, and Gideon should have left Storybrooke by that time. They were traveling the world or in another realm.

[@namechannel3293]

They better reboot this in the future

[@joshuaraylancaster7401]

I just wanted to drop in and say hello I am new to your channel would like to see more videos about once upon a time

[@princeofsilence6573]

What explains scenes like in 7x08, when Alice stated that she met Ella's mother (Cecilia) when she "left" her family? This means Alice is older than Ella...right?! Then we have Robin who aged to 18 in Storybrooke and "went back in time" with her mother, Zelena, and met Regina, Henry, etc. ?! Like... crazy!!

[@theoriginalalan]

Ok ! I have a theory that I created throughout long nights of insomnia questioning the timeline. Here it is : I think the finale battle did not happen in 2017, because the Black Fairy says that Henry is fourteen. This one was born in 2001, so the Final Battle and the season 6 finale happened around 2015. I think that's in that time period where the NEF characters were brought into Seattle, because we know the 6th curse has lasted at least 2 years before Henry comes to Hyperion Heights (Lucy is 8 when the curse strikes and 10 when she meets Henry). I also think that when the Evil Queen created the Wish Realm, its all timeline creats at the same time. So I think that Wish Hook travels to the NEF in 2015 to make Alice in the weird relationship with Gothel. And as time goes faster in NEF, Alice would have had time to grow up. But I realised that in that case, she's supposed to be older than Emma, so I think she went to Wonderland (which I think, by the way, is the original one, so time goes at the same pace as in the Ogi EF). So she would just be as old as Robin (like early 20) when the curse stroke. (Robin is also pretty messed up in this series timeline, like she's 5 in 2018, but like teenager not so long after in Storybrooke.) Whatever, when the curse strikes the NEF, I think it's like 2023 and they go back in 2018 ( which, following my thory, happens like 3 years after S6 finale). In 2018, S7 finale, they need help from 2018 Snow, Charming and Zelena and after the battle against Rumple, I guess they just send them back to Storybrooke 2018, by erasing their memories to not affect the timeline. Then, Henry leaves Storybrooke, grows up in the NEF. Emma, Hook and Regina go to NEF to save him, but like in 2021 or 2022, around that time. Pregnant Emma and Hook go back to Storybrooke, the NEF curse strikes. And then, I think after the battle against Wish Rumple, they just go to Storybrooke 2022. Emma gives birth to Hope, Regina has the idea to reunite the realms, but wait for the NEF curse in this timeline to happen, and then, after everyone is in Seattle, 2018, Regina casts the finale curse, reuniting everyone in the United Realms. Congratulations if you manages to do it till the end. It's pretty messed up and I still think that's the simpliest explanation. I think the writers didn't try to find a way to make it logic. I miss the old times where it just was like, one timeline ans one curse with frozen time 😭

[@danielavictoriapinto531]

I love the finale of the series. The writers did justice to the story and I think that every character had the ending they deserved, but as you say, they left us with Big Important Questions ... They should do a movie to clarify those answers after that curse

[@michaelbrent1536]

Abc should Turn Wolf Among Us,The Incredibles and DreamWorks Rise of The Guardian or Gargoyles into Live action TV series.I hard that The People who created Once Upon a Time are planing to do a Disney Villain TV series but a Gargoyles TV series can work too.

[@TalaIsDarker]

For me, S7 the main line I thought I wasn't a fan. I enjoyed the fairytail part. But than finally it came I liked it. And than came an end which I did hope for a S8 to get more depth with the new characters

[@csdufoupdates5502]

Love your Channel 😎 👽✌️

[@kstarwalker4905]

#Theorizer I think the Once Upon a Time Final episode was inspired by the shows, Desendants and The Tenth Kingdom. A bit like a detached prequel.

[@melodybradley7281]

When are you going to update your once upon a time family tree

[@TheTheorizer]

I already did...? It has everything, and the two or three small things I missed from the finale, I commented below.

[@melodybradley7281]

Oh sorry didn’t realize it until after I watch the video judged to soon