How Once Upon A Time Cursed Itself: A Deep Dive

[@mchjsosde]

I don't think you've ever been so dramatic as when you were talking about how boring the show got 🤣🤣 so hilarious and true unfortunately

[@misssupercookie2011]

Here's the thing about that specifically; I think the worst thing a show can be is boring. I have watched shows that, yeah, maybe the writing wasn't the best every time but it was *entertaining*. Heck, even the people who stuck with Riverdale said "yes it was bad, but it was fun! I was having a blast". At some point, Once crossed over from 'not the best writing but at least fun' to just boring. Which is almost worse than a show being quote-unquote "badly written".

[@annaniskanen2557]

The simple issue with these kinds of shows is that makers see how successful it originally is and wanna make make MAKE money. So they keep beating the horse until it's dead and for a long time after as long as there is even litttttle bit of something you can squeeze out of its dead, cold body. It makes a pitiful sight but that is how these shows work.

[@TempoLOOKING]

​@@misssupercookie2011oh girl you have no idea. I'm at least 7 yrs older. I mention because ABC was BORING at this time. The show moved from Friday to Sunday. You get home from working out in the Sun all day and your have to watch this crap. Sunday's were Thisss and AFV and Harvey... Until Castle brought back murder. Fun fact this show pissed me off to the point I got arrested 7 years...7 years of BOREDOM and annoying idiots. It was torchuring to deal with as ABC had nothing on. Revenge cased. Dirty Sex Money was canceled. Community was shit. And TVs were still expensive. God I hate this show.

[@TempoLOOKING]

​@@annaniskanen2557you forgot ABC sucked. Did you watch it weekly. God it was awful. Sunday's were dead. What was Bob Igger thinking. Now his stations are worth scrap metal. All the recent shows do is complain about white men....hij hij jokes on you Bob your stalk is shit now. Under 97 a share. You can't afford shit. We men left and gave Glitch our money instead or donated to hell to fight Adam.. Me drink now. Full bottle I hate it. Dam the hangover better be worth it.

[@XX-um1du]

It killed me that Cora got her happy ending, while Regina's poor dad, who was the kindest nicest man and always put her first, was condemned to oblivion or wherever it was they sent him 😭

[@ThePrincessCH]

Regina's dad did end up in a better place at the end.

[@XX-um1du]

@@ThePrincessCH Oh did he? I don't remember that 😅 when was it revealed?

[@ThePrincessCH]

@@XX-um1du When they went to the Underworld. He went to a better place, I think it was because standing up to Cora and protecting Regina was his unfinished business.

[@valhatan3907]

It's always the nicest character that got the most sad ending 😢

[@srichardf]

Regina's dad got to go to Heaven or whatever that was. It astounded me that Cora got to go to Heaven or whatever that was too, as she was a literal psychopath who abandoned one of her children, ripped out people's hearts, and straight up murdered people.

[@emmyrose233]

Before even watching the video, I'm gonna assert my opinion that the actors who played Regina and Gold were too damn good for this show.

[@DucktorDoom]

I agree, but I'd like to also add Ginnifer Goodwin (Snow White's actor) to that group. She did amazing work as well, and she and Lana Parrilla played off of each other excellently.

[@LuzMaria95]

Yes!!!

[@kaitlyncrossley5726]

Honestly for the most part, I think this show did a great job overall with most of its actors giving phenomenal performances. Jennifer Goodwin was a great one.

[@keepitinthediary]

Yeeesss!

[@valhatan3907]

Agree. Both of them carried the whole show. Honestly, I would droped the show sooner if not because of them

[@emma-janeulmer438]

I couldn't even believe Adult Henry not believing in magic in S7 because. He has the heart of the true believer? That's a whole thing? Why is he suddenly such a grouch about it

[@Vampgurl202]

That was the storyline? Glad I stopped watching it then

[@brooklyn5755]

Yes, I didn’t like that all. It’s just a flipped story that doesn’t add much to the story and just goes against Henry’s character. They could’ve used the last season to tie not on the story and do one last fun thing or don’t make a season 7 at all.

[@philster4015]

To be totally fair it was a curse

[@willlyon7129]

Not to mention the brain of an idiot who fell for Pan’s lies.

[@FairyLadyQuelaag]

I stopped watching by that point, damn that's fucking wild.

[@squinklings]

The chokehold this show had on me was insane S1 really did knock it out of the park And evil queen Regina's outfits always ate 😩

[@SerenaSkybourne]

Regina is a slay in general

[@SerenaSkybourne]

She carried this show on her back

[@emilyfisher7060]

@@SerenaSkybourneI hope they paid for her chiropractor 😮‍💨

[@archer3k1]

Her outfits cooked, ate, went for seconds, and took two to go plates. and that's just the flashbacks.

[@bluetiger4367]

​@SerenaSkybourne I agree, though I'd definitely add Rumple's actor to that. Using an Atlas holding the sky analogy, Regina held up the show from the left, Rumple from the right, and it seemed like they did it effortlessly.

[@fawnlowell6094]

i feel like one of the reasons season one cursed storybrooke isnt actually so bad is that deep down Regina has always just wanted to be part of a flourishing community and she just didn't know how to get that without wiping everyones memory and forcing them to be around her and not having to change any of her behavior that makes people run the other way. like, for a queen who's surface motivations are violent and vengeful it seems a bit tame, but for the character DEEPLY starved for familial love and a community who has always tried to force these things with magic since its the only way she knew how, it makes perfect sense

[@SerenaSkybourne]

I think so too, and this is the reason why her character arc was the best out of all of them. She ultimately really wanted a family, but went about it in all the wrongs ways. Same with her trying to seduce Graham and adopt Greg; she is desperate for love and acceptance but pushes everyone further away instead

[@keepitinthediary]

I love me a good villain. I felt for Regina from the time I learned her story. 😢 she and Gold muah but Regina more than Gold.

[@averybell4273]

She, she craved community!

[@suncoco6495]

Totally. I didn’t agree with the things she did, but I understood why she did it.

[@kamikazelemming1552]

As far as I'm concerned, Once Upon a Time ended with the defeat of Peter Pan, Rumple's sacrifice and redemption, and Henry and Emma losing their memories as Storybrook vanishes from the world. It was a perfect, bittersweet ending to easily the best part of the show. Everything afterword's just felt like an excuses to the show going.

[@willlyon7129]

And the 7th season ended with a sour note.

[@youtubeshow7576]

Even tho I still like seasons 3B,4 and 6 (I don't like season 5 and I refuse to watch season 7) I do agree that Emma and Henry losing their memories as Storybrook vanishes and everyone returning to the fairy tale world would have been a great bitter sweet ending to the show

[@sophieshep12]

I can also see that as a good place to end it, even the end of S3 would've worked. I do like the idea of it ending with everyone being sent back and Emma and Henry heading to New York for a new life. She got her son out of it at the end and Regina had to deal with the consequences of her actions. Its not a great ending for the rest of the Emma's family tho that's my one hang up here.

[@amelia3146]

“Even Hook in a police uniform isn’t enough to save this show” Made me choke on my water lol!

[@Evielicious]

It's enough to keep me coming back to the show, though! He's so fine, if he wasn't a character I don't think I would've finished the first watch through, let alone two more years later.

[@fawnlowell6094]

thank you for bringing up the rape culture, i adore this show so much but the moments you brought up have been bothering me for years and rewatching it with my roommate we were absolutely disgusted by the implications, especially for graham and robin. Those poor men were never given even a sliver of acknowledgment from the show how messed up their situations were. for robin especially it drives me crazy because the plotline was framed the whole time in the idea of "how does this affect REGINA?" "how did REGINA get hurt from this?" "oh i cant believe zelina did this to REGINA" and its like!!! no!!!! robin is the victim here and at no point do any of the characters stop to be like hey so,,, zelina raped you,, are you okay? because obviously they cant say the word in a family friendly show but if they werent able to say the word, why would they think it was okay to even include the plotline in the first place??!?? im so mad

[@lyangray452]

I don't remember what movie it was in (a fantasy/magic one), but love potions and spells were forbidden and were included in the dark magic category (something I liked), as they eliminated people's right to choose. The same thing happened in the Grimm series. The protagonist ends up getting pregnant a woman who transformed into his girlfriend to sleep with him and take away his powers. And at the end of the series they end up together and the viewers are super happy. Come on! If it had been a man who transformed into the girl's boyfriend to have sex with her, they would have been screaming to high heaven.

[@ThePrincessCH]

​@@lyangray452Yeah, most people seemed to prefer the antagonist over the protagonist's lover as a character.

[@fibanocci314]

@lyangray452 Perhaps the most egregious part of that was that they filmed scenes dealing with it (and apparently wrote even more) and then just . . . cut them out. I feel like if they had addressed it and she had said "what I did was wrong and I'm sorry" it could have been a much more powerful story of overcoming a lot of history because of true love or whatever.

[@karisworldgaming4832]

I also remembered it being heavily implied that Regina also raped Graham. She said: “Your mine now” ”take him to my bed chamber”. This is why I couldn’t bring myself to like Regina, despite feeling bad for her, and empathizing with her at times. Regina was a lot worse then they made her out to be. I dropped the show, and I’m confused how she got to be declared “the good queen”, after everything she did. It’s un realistic what a good ending such a horrible person like Regina got. Don’t get me wrong, she was a great character, along with Rumplestiltskin, but she was far from being deserving of forgiveness like that, and becoming queen.

[@Blokewood3]

I think that the writers had no idea they were going to try to give Regina a redemption arc in season 1. Maybe they would have written things differently if they had, but then again, she's shown committing mass murder in later seasons even after they knew they were going to build to a redemption arc so I don't know.

[@Anna-B]

I love Once Upon a Time, but it definitely jumps the shark a couple times. I didn’t even bother watching the final season

[@angelaholmes8888]

You made a wise choice

[@SerenaSkybourne]

Good, that means you’re not scarred by it like I was

[@laurafabianmarrero]

​@@SerenaSkybourne stop 😂😂😂 But yes this last season is like season 8 of Game of thrones But for some reason i like It

[@liallialcroc]

oh god the last season is the only one i havent seen, should i not watch it?​@@SerenaSkybourne

[@DumiNihi]

Same i stopped at season 3

[@CourtneyAnnM]

I agree with almsot everything you talked about! My one divergence is that, for me, the show's noticeable "downhill" moment was not Neal'a death, but the Frozen arc. If Neal stuck around, it would have made for some very sweet moments and storylines with him and Henry, and possibly created some extra drama with Gold, but overall I think his arc was done and he served his purpose for the show. Arguments can definitely be made for why he should have stayed or Gold should have been the one to sacrifice himself (I love that idea), but I don't think this one decision is the mark of the show going downhill. It still focused on characters and story first. It wasn't until season 4 and Frozen came along that the show stopped being a fantasy series about characters who happen to be fairytale characters and instead just became an excuse for Disney to advertise its brand and IPs at every turn. Season 4 onward, we got Anna and Elsa, Cruella, Ursula, Hades, Jafar, Aladdin, and Jasmine all looking practically identical to their Disney counterparts...it was too much. I could no longer enjoy the show as a fun fairytale fantasy and instead felt advertised to for 45 minutes every week. At least the characters in seasons 1-3 - who were fairytale characters that happened to have Disney counterparts - had their own style, backstories, and personalities. They weren't just an obvious identical stand-in for a Disney product.

[@PaolaRL]

I totally agree with you!

[@Girl2TheCity]

I agree season 4 is where I stopped. The Frozen Arc did it for me. I even tried the Alice Spin off. They took Gold and messed up his villain arch and almost a deus ex machine stand alone character after season 4. This is where I hold this show in my memory 😂❤

[@Ana_Paula.Frasson]

But like, after watching Frozen 2 you can really see how the disney version and the show's version are very different, I mean, yeah visually they look like the disney farytale, but their storyline is completly different, starting with Ingrid ending with Hans and the 180 shift on his brothers. I think in s4 the show still breath in some ways, it was after s5 with the horrible lost memory reutilize for the 3rd time that actually went bad, people just starting thinking it was cool to hate Frozen for some reason a few years ago and it started to be an excuse for everything. Look at Cruella's backstory! So interesting, nothing like the animated movie and nothing like the Emma Stone new version, Snow and Charming after years of judging other people's actions drink of their own poison after it's found out they stole Maleficent's baby, Belle finally realized Rumple's lies and the whole idea of an author is so interersting and wasn't well explored, the season finale with evil snow white, good Regina, so cool. It was a very creative season.

[@CourtneyAnnM]

@@Ana_Paula.Frasson but the major point is that Frozen 2 DIDN'T exist yet when they did s4. As someone who watched it while it was airing, it was an eye roll moment. Oh, the hugely popular and lucrative movie Disney is already making tons of money off and is literally everywhere is now on my small screen taking over my favorite show too? Great... And the characters were all identical to their animated parts, down to the last thread on their costumes and the silly rock trolls. It was the first time there was no originality or creative interpretation of a story we already know. Instead, they exploited it to be a direct continuation of the Frozen brand while also not being canon with the animated movie so they could have their cake and eat it too. It felt like a mandate handed down by Disney to ABC and the show runners instead of a story they were passionate about telling. And all your other examples from season 4's story I hate lol. I hated cruella and thought it was odd that she was the one they drew a line in the sand and said nope, she's just evil no redemption for her. But others who have slaughtered countless lives? They still have hope. It sent a very odd mixed message. Snow and charming kidnapping maleficent's baby was suuuuuper out of character and was totally something the writers added because it felt like they were running out of ideas at that point. I'm just saying, frozen was the sign in the sky signaling that the show's writing and characterizations were getting lazy and going downhill. And it did.

[@joannamarieart]

Absolutely agree. The introduction of Elsa and Anna almost completely destroyed my interest in the show. I don't think I even finished watching that season and never watched any of the rest of them.

[@leopagefiore]

The Rumple/Belle storyline is one of the most rage-inducing romances I've ever been subjected to. I warmed up to it throughout the first three seasons (even if I was not a fan of it in the very beginning), but then him going evil again, turning good, going evil YET AGAIN, and turning good YET AGAIN . . . I was begging for him to just die at the end of 6 and put me out of my (and Belle's) misery. The only way I could like him as a character in Season 7 was by suppressing everything that happened in Seasons 4 through 6. If you're a storyteller, your audience should not have to forget entire sections of your story to like a character you want them to like.

[@Souten66]

A good friend of mine and I disagree vehemently about the Rumpbelle romance. It’s toxic, sorry not sorry. Belle deserved better

[@bethanywallace8575]

Age difference was too much for me. There was like no scene where they touched,and I think that was cause it would have been icky

[@navnavnav2255]

The constant back and forth of Rumple becoming good then back to evil was frustrating. With Regina, she made earnest progression while it felt like Rumple never did, just faked it the entire time. And maybe that was the point but it was tiresome for me after the second time.

[@MrChristianDT]

I have to rewatch the show, but I don't even really remember it being like that- more that he'd do good things if there wasn't any serious downside for him, but he was constantly lying to Belle & hoping she never found out. Never really made me mad. For whatever reason, the only time I've ever gotten legitimately angry at a fictional character was in Breaking Bad, when Pinkman got that goth chick back on drugs.

[@FairyLadyQuelaag]

Holy crap their relationship wasn't entirely bad and would have been good if Rumple stayed good but I felt the show kept making him evil because they needed a source of evil and realied too much on the old instead of getting creative and using something new. I know Rumple was meant to be the beast but damn they fucked that up.

[@jessjones2766]

I agree about killing Neal. Even at the time it didn't make any sense to me to kill off the character who's basically at the center of the entire story. It killed most of Rumple's motivation too.

[@personafanatic4597]

i think they just wanted stakes and shock value and to give her and hook's romance more of a front seat to draw in crazy fandom shippers

[@manicpixiefangirl4189]

They desperately wanted to cater to Hook shippers. One of the most anger inducing things the show did.

[@Xohttpdahlia]

I wish Belle had a better story arch then just being the “insanely intelligent, book girl” like her only use in the show was very much the same as Rumples, only she was a source of information, not just objects and magic. Also she had the worst case of Stockholm syndrome and as teens we all found this is cute and adorable. As an adult it feels very sad to watch.

[@brooklyn5755]

Yes, definitely. I didn’t think much of it younger (not saying I thought it was “cute” but it didn’t register in my brain at that time.) However, now it didn’t quite make me annoyed how they didn’t add more to her character and the relationship between them was just weird.

[@molinagrn65]

Personally looking at their relationship in retrospect, I don’t think it’s Stockholm but I became more disdained with how Belle was essentially used as a savior piece for Rumple, like EVERY TIME he messed up or did something horrible she would still come back to him. Their relationship and development felt very like a “I can fix him” thing that got dry for me. Whenever Belle pushed back on Rumple, even turning from him with his actions got me interested if maybe they’d still love each other but not come to be because of his continued actions, but nah they still get together. I do like dysfunctional or complex romances if there’s like better payoff, boundaries, instead of the rinse repeat Rumpbelle kinda became. People may disagree with me, it’s totally fine. It’s just how I feel. Belle deserved a much better character arc or usage of her character than what they gave us.

[@kingcrimson2643]

It's honestly kinda sad because Belle barely interacted with anyone that wasn't Gold.

[@zephyr8072]

One thing that always bothered me about Neal is not so much that he was killed off, though that was a downer, but rather that the show constantly insisted that he's not only dead but super dead. Ultra permanently no really for real dead no backsies. Even when other characters were getting resurrected right and left or getting duplicates or time travelled around or whatever else, Neal was the one exception that had to be deader than dead. Now I'm not fond of the overuse of resurrection and making death meaningless but this rule that Neal and Neal alone had to stay dead just came across as very weird.

[@fibanocci314]

Robin and Graham were also super deader than dead unable to be resurrected. I'm starting to think this show has a male love interest problem . . .

[@zephyr8072]

@@fibanocci314 To an extent, yes. Especially in the rather tasteless way Robin dies and Hook is resurrected so close to each other. Though they aren’t quite as insistent on slamming down on the possibility. I mean hell in the wishverse they make a point that this entirely separate version of him is still dead. That’s how dedicated they were to it.

[@valhatan3907]

It started to make me thinking, maybe there's a technical reasons behind it? Like a contract issue with the actors?

[@jbcatz5]

@@fibanocci314Graham was killed before resurrections were established as a thing, so I’m willing to give the writers benefit of the doubt on that one. No such excuse on Robin, he was killed off deader than dead to deprive Regina of a happily ever after.

[@lexiatel]

I'm sad.. about his death

[@bicassual]

the reason regina is never held accountable for her sexual assault of graham is because the writers deadass don't see it as sexual assault lol. i remember an interview where they said that they just wanted something fun and sexy and didn't realize how it would be seen in different lenses. truly idiotic. also in terms of emma and hook, when hook essentially guilt tripped her into kissing him in season 3... gave me such an intense ick

[@breezy3392]

That's actually what they said? How tone deaf and brain dead are they?

[@gisela_oliveira]

I like to think that in a alternate universe, Graham didn't die, he went back to the enchanted forest and than instead of Hook apearing, he comes back and becomes the pair for Emma

[@dariarayden3986]

he was literally her slave goddammit how on earth it wasn't considered even dubious on writers' part?

[@SarahDuke01]

The show has a bad history of that. Look at how Zelena enslaved Rumple for an entire year (something she was never punished for). As obsessed as she was with him, you know that she crossed that line. God knows why they “redeemed” her.

[@dariarayden3986]

​@@SarahDuke01yeah btw there was a scene where she makes him to have a date with her by controlling him with a dagger maybe not always with an active command but with a threat of forced obedience. god knows what she could've actually done to him and it certainly feels disgusting. the show is obsessed with magic objects that allow other people to control you for some reason, the magic hearts, the dagger. emma gives regina the dagger in season five so she would stop her just in case and then there is this scene where regina accidentally orders emma to shut up and we see her going mute. and what does regina say? "i could get used to this". I understand it's a joke but it did make me uneasy because I would totally be uncomfortable if I were Emma in this moment. the concept of an author is equally baffling like wtf just in general.

[@smooveayy]

I watched Haley Whipjack's video and she perfectly framed the nightmare of EQs curse, especially for Henry and Hatter bc they could see that everything is a loop. every day was the same, no change. I even wonder how Henry felt being the only person to age for 11 years, I wonder how he has such a sunny disposition. I'd be depressed af

[@DucktorDoom]

He didn't notice, per the showrunners. And why would he? The people around him responded dynamically to how he behaved and remembered things he'd said and done in the past. It didn't look like a time loop to him. And when you are a child, you really do not notice whether or not adults are aging -- and the other kids in his school can be easily explained away by him switching classes each grade. Without the book, he likely wouldn't have noticed anything until he was well into his teens.

[@smooveayy]

yeah i guess a kid wouldn't fully notice the adults, but in school with other kids? he was for sure gonna realize that 1st graders have been first graders since he was 6, and that every day is the same? I think he would have noticed it despite being a kid, that every conversation is the same, actions rarely change etc. kids aren't as dumb as people think they are. they notice things but just dont know how to articulate what they think is wrong. so i theorize that the book helped him understand the reason behind the weird things he noticed. thats just my theory though. I like ur theory too.@@DucktorDoom

[@genera1013]

I have also always wondered about Cinderella. It's been decades. Has she been pregnant the entire time? Has this happened before and she just forgets? How does this work???

[@fibanocci314]

@genera1013 I'm pretty sure she was heavily pregnant the entire time. It's at least implied that she was heavily pregnant when the curse initially struck and it's outright said multiple times that time doesn't really pass in Storybrooke. Another example of people who should have undercover serious physical change from the passage of time is Charming, who was in a coma for 28 years and suffered no loss of muscle mass. Or Hansel and Gretel (and other children?) who didn't age.

[@BetterWithBob]

A flashback in Season 3 shows he was depressed and feeling down, which is why Mary Margaret gives him the storybook. Learning the truth and feeling like a hero gave him significant hope. So he did begin to notice by the time he was ten, but finding out the reason and seeking out Emma made him realise he wasn't crazy

[@evildoesnotsleep-x2b]

for a show with audience of teens and up, it had a glaring issue with sexual assault and lack of consent, with the most glaring examples being neal impregnating a teen emma and abandoning her and sending her to prison, regina forcing graham to be with her, Mr gold/rumple imprisoning belle and generally never telling her anything bad he did, zelena duping robin hood into impregnating her and these are out the top of my head. and the rating gave the writers excuse to never adress these topics and patted themselves on the back for having "strong women" and called it a day

[@mchjsosde]

in popular culture these kinds of dubious/absent consent storylines were so common and rarely criticized. So disturbing

[@thesparks00]

neal and emma having teenage pregnancy being assault/lack of consent ??? lost me at ur first example when the rest made sense???

[@misssupercookie2011]

I think about this quite a bit and how it fits into the wider culture of this in fantasy media. Love potions and spells are essentially the magical equivalent of roofies and a lot of the time they are used for humours effect. Even when they're not used in that way, I feel like fantasy narratives tend to gloss over the reality of it often because the writers don't realise what they;re writing.

[@genera1013]

​@@thesparks00Age of consent. Emma was still a minor at 17. Neal is harder to say since he was technically over 100, but some of that time was in Neverland so he didn't physically age that much. I can't find an exact age for him, but many places are saying mid thirties, which would put him at mid twenties when he met Emma.

[@xilj4002]

​@@genera1013 Age of consent is usually 16-ish. Also, arguing that an enthusiastic 17yo having a fling is the same as magic date gRape would be weird and disgusting even if AoC was 18.

[@gisela_oliveira]

Some points about the True Love thing: Emma kissing Graham worked because she was the savior, not because of love (i think) Rumple and Belle's firs kiss almost worked to take away the dark one curse, but he didn't wanted the curse to be broken, so it didn' worked and he got mad at her (and Regina, who gave her the idea) An here are some thing they never addered: Emma has powers becase she was "born from true love", wich is proven by the kissing waking Snow, so, Aurora and Philip also had true love, since he waked her up, but no one cares about their baby and how powerful it may be Belle could have kissed Rumple to remove the curse again, and if he wanted to prove himself changed, it would work. What would happend to the dark one powers? no one knows.

[@BixLovesMiley]

Thank you for noticing how shady the Blue Fairy was, that drove me insane once I realized it!!! I think it was around the time we found out Rumples mom was a fairy that called my attention more to Blue and how little she was doing.

[@SerenaSkybourne]

It took me three watches to realise hahaha

[@taint1801]

Worst part of season 5: WHY did they bring in Dorothy, does Mulan not deserve happiness for some reason? Like... Her and Red would've been iconic but no, they made them "friends" and had Mulan third-wheeling once again. Nobody cared about Dorothy, she disappeared after one episode

[@youtubeshow7576]

#justiceforMulan

[@Che1Angelius]

I believe it was the actress' schedule or she didn't want to come back

[@kingcrimson2643]

​@@Che1Angeliusif you mean the actress for Ruby/Red she had to leave after Season 2 but she was lead on some show on CBS. Apparently the original plan was Ruby was going to be in a relationship with Dr.Whale but both actors were busy as leads on other shows. Ruby's on the CBS show Whale's as Blaine on iZombie.

[@33931011]

I was actually rooting for Mulan and Ruby on S5. They spent a fair amt of adventures together and they deserve a happy ending. Dorothy was just a touch and go character.

[@JohnWilliams-cr2sz]

To this day I am still baffled that they paired Ruby with Dorothy, a one off guest character instead of Mulan who was right there and had been her traveling companion for like years at that point.

[@gisela_oliveira]

the show really lost me when they killed Robin, taking away Regina's chance at a happy ending, especially when Hook also dies and than comes back, and she is really mad at this, with reason, because Emma still has everyting, her parents, Henry and she got him back, and Regina is left behind, just like so many other characters that would disapear and comeback all the time

[@brooklyn5755]

Ikr, I hate how they did to Regina. It was annoying how they city still didn’t trust her after she proved herself of being trusted again.

[@BrokensoulRider]

Season 8 was... a thing. I wish they gave her Robin and ended the show at 6. I absolutely agree with this. @@brooklyn5755

[@SamanthaParker-ir2gq]

I think it was symbolic; losing loved darkened her heart and the fact she lost robin and maintained goodness proved she has really changed. It was pretty clever really.

[@gisela_oliveira]

@@SamanthaParker-ir2gq but she ended up alone, it's unfair, since she went trough all of that and in the end she was alone, not to mention Robin's son that was totally forgotten by the show, like, he was a ittle kid and became an orfan and noone even talked about that

[@SamanthaParker-ir2gq]

@@gisela_oliveira haha good point.

[@thesparks00]

Emma, Baelfire, and Henry family unit would've been so fun to see. Here's this secondhand citizens of the Enchanted Forest going through fairytales~ would've been much more compelling than the drawn out dogdung they pulled.

[@jmarie-nw8jf]

Absolutely agree. I kind of disconnected when Peter Pan was able to enact THE CURSE by killing off a henchman he didn't give a fig about. It cuts Regina's sacrifice off at the knees. Regina took seasons to redeem herself, so good. But then her sister decides, okay, I'm good too. I think the writers had favorites and kept them around too long. Then doing away with some interesting things. I wanted more of Lancelot. I wanted the switch between Pan and Henry to last much longer. Regina not getting her happy ending with her soul mate crushed me.

[@willlyon7129]

It’s obvious that Henry isn’t that bright of a kid protagonist into trust Pan.

[@MrTwentington]

Based on them interacting like once there was a lot in the fandom back in the day where Ruby and Belle were paired as a couple. And I think that could’ve made a lot of sense like hear me out- say Belle breaks up with Rumple for always choosing power over her she’s been too mistreated for too long and she wants to find what real freedom feels like- not under her dad not under Rumple not being defined by someone else and trying to bond with other people in her own age bracket. She gets burgers at granny’s she spends time talking to Ruby about a want for adventure in the great wide somewhere and over time gradually they become a thing AND RUBY BEING A WOLF MAKES THEM BEAUTY AND THE BEAST

[@molinagrn65]

Oh my god, that would’ve been perfect- 😭

[@twilightskiesx]

I would’ve loved that!! 😭💕

[@tjfrizzi5965]

I did like the character of Ivy/Drizella and her arch in season 7. Australian actress Adelaide Kane really plays off the mean evil character. And her "sensitive" moments really come across. But yes, the writing has it's issues throughout the series... Now Gold annoyed me every time he put Henry in Danger. He had Regina cast the curse so he could find his son Bae. But then every chance he thinks Henry WHO IS BAE'S ONLY SON, GOLD'S BLOOD RELATIVE might cause him a brief moment of offense he tries to kill the Kid. Wow that's crazy!

[@SerenaSkybourne]

Adelaide was basically the only good part of season 7, and she could hold my attention for more than a minute haha

[@victoriajankowski1197]

I have a hottake about Bell, it hit me in the episode where her memory got rewritten, she wasn't into him when he was nice, only when he was being a bad guy. I don't think she liked him because she saw the potential good in him, she liked him because he was dangerous and a bad guy, only acting to mitigate his worst actions because she's afraid of loosing him to the retribution of the others.

[@desgirl1952]

😅

[@Elizabelle79]

With Greg and Tamara, the problem was that the showrunners got the rights to Peter Pan Pan during Season 2... so the season arc of Science vs Magic was dropped and they just became a plot device to get Henry to Neverland. I'd love to see the original plan.

[@willlyon7129]

It’s a big waste

[@FrumiousMing8]

I think it would've helped with the repetitiveness of the show, to have the antagonist be an anti-magic organization from the modern world instead of 1 evil person (mostly women) with magic. Plus it would've made good use out of Emma's knowledge of the modern world. They could have circled back to this idea but they never did. Wasted potential.

[@SerenaSkybourne]

#justiceforGraham

[@evander6663]

Fr!

[@RedEveTillDawn]

He was my favorite 😫😭

[@tiyabear]

I find Regina Mills' half-assed redemption arc so infuriating. Her story isn't about making amends, it's about being defensive with confronted by the people whose lives she destroyed. She's a rapist, she sent little kids to their death, and abused her own son. In fact, Henry's adoption remains one of the most disturbing things about this show for me. She didn't have him because she had a sincere desire to be a mother, she had him because she wanted someone to love her, something any child psychologist would advise against. Then she gaslit the poor kid, bullied him, and tried to bully a mental health professional into making him question his sanity. The writers made her too horrible and she never had to truly answer for what she did. Seriously, unless I missed an episode did she ever return the hearts she ripped out? Rant over. I loved Emma and the Charmings, but Once Upon a Victim blaming is one of my biggest fantasy disappointment shows.

[@ThePrincessCH]

I personally didn't like how Regina gave Emma a hard time about not being Henry's "mother." Sure, she was never a part of his life, but the only reason she came to Storybrooke was because Henry showed up at her place.

[@joaogouveia2224]

I lived for the Snow and Charming just being too perfect and setting too high of a standard for themselves argument after we established they kidnapped a baby

[@justsomeoddball]

Also on the situation with Selena and Robin (literal grape by deception), I didn't like how Regina ended up blaming Robin as if he had cheated on her. She knew Robin left to be a family with his son and Marian. After it turns out to be Selena instead of supporting her partner, a literal grape victim, she holds a grudge. Frankly disgusting.

[@justsomeoddball]

Sorry for adding on here, but I don't think Graham and Emma were true loves. I think it was the fact that Emma was the savior. Maybe Graham being a bit more involved than others had something to do with it also (as in missing his actual heart) idk. But yeah the show definitely went downhill. I loved season 1 but never finished the series cause of that. Love your work!

[@DucktorDoom]

When did she blame Robin? And it's rape. Not 'grape.'

[@justsomeoddball]

@@DucktorDoomCouldn't pinpoint the moment. They just used the whole thing to complicate Robin and Regina's relationship without ever mentioning the effect it must have had on Robin and him having to defend himself by stating he didn't know. Eventually Regina is fine with it though I think. Also yes it's rape but idk if it is ok by youtube (which sucks but is a different topic)? Comment sections might be different though idk.

[@ThePrincessCH]

​@DucktorDoom I think it was after Robin announced that Zelina was pregnant. Regina and Robin were at the pub, and one of the last things she said was that life kicked her in the teeth again.

[@abizzarecyph]

Graham's death never fails to make me cry no matter how many times I rewatch season 1. Also, I feel like adding Hades and Medusa and Hercules but not really any other people or monsters from Greek mythology was such a missed opportunity. They could've done a plot twist with one of the main cast secretly being a demigod or something, and people wouldn't have cared because that's the kind of show ouat is. This also could've been a way to introduce Greek mythological monsters as villains that can't really be redeemed since they're not human.

[@gisela_oliveira]

Honestly, they could actually have made a new spin-off with just a bunch of myths in another city, it had potential

[@fibanocci314]

@gisela_oliveira You're both geniuses and in addition to my compliments I would just like to drop here that Disney were the publishers of the Percy Jackson books as well.

[@gisela_oliveira]

@@fibanocci314 oh, yea, is true. but they could have made someting more adult, like OUAT, while PJ is for kids

[@willlyon7129]

What really annoys me is that Hades is just carbon copy of the Disney movie.

[@willlyon7129]

@@gisela_oliveira I know this show is the “ grown up version”, but Rick Riordan writes better stuff.

[@carriecarebear]

I am so conflicted about Regina's character. On the hand, she is an amazing villain and you get why she turned out like she did. I don't want to justify what she did, but considering how her mother was and how losing a loved one can destroy you if you have no support system or if you lost the one of the few people who loved you for who you are - that can totally destroy you and turn you into a villain. Regina is a complicated character who shows that you can have good and bad sides. On the other hand, her bad parts were really bad. As much as I like her and envy her confidence, she was a cold blooded murderer. She even killed the sherrif in season 1. What about all the poor people who lost their lives? She was never punished for what she did, there was never a trial, never a sentence. They always said she was a bad person but in my opinion, they always glossed over the fact that she killed without having to deal with the conseqences ever. And it isn't like she ever felt bad for what she did. She destroyed so many lives of innocent people, people who have never hurt her and she never tried to make up for it, never atoned for her sins. She never had nightmares or wished she hadn't done what she did. Yeah, you can't change the past. But you could at least feel bad about it

[@bicassual]

womp womp

[@violetlavi2207]

Not to mention her raping Graham 😬 multiple times! And keeping his heart locked up AWAY from him!

[@carriecarebear]

@@violetlavi2207 I hated it that they completely ignored what happened to Graham. From season 2 onwards, it was like he never existed at all.

[@DucktorDoom]

I mean. She very much did feel bad about it. That was a pretty important part of her character. If you still can't forgive her then that's fine (although I think OUAT isn't the show for you if you can't forgive characters who have done bad things). But if you think she didn't feel bad about her actions then I think maybe you just didn't understand the show.

[@carriecarebear]

@@DucktorDoom sorry but can we finally stop acting like someone "didn’t understand the show" if he / she disagrees? How can you act like you know it all? Like only you have the only right answer? Like you are the only one who knows for sure how the show is to interpret?? Like you are the only one who is clever enough to understand the show and everyone who disagrees with your perception of the show, isn't as clever as you and didn’t understand the show? Who the f*ck gives you the right? It is fine that you have your opinion and congratulations, you are courageous enough to tell a complete stranger on the internet that you don't share her opinion on a character. But sorry - NO, you are not and will never be entitled to tell anyone on this planet that he / she "didn’t understand the show" because this person has a different opinion than you have. TV shows are kind of modern art and art is always and will always be subjective and there will never be a right or wrong answer because art always should lead to discussions. And acting like a "I know it all" is the complete opposite of this.

[@rachnab04]

I completely agree with the point of killing off Neal - like it felt like they were just reunited and trying to save him and then he up and dies to bring back rumple and undid rumples whole arc of dying a hero

[@amelia3146]

I never made it past S4, but NO WAY they brought in Hades, only to make him essentially a businessman with blue hair 😭

[@willlyon7129]

He was a carbon copy of his animated counterpart. Which really annoys me is they make him the villain of every work of fiction

[@mc299.]

I sure hope you never find out what Lore Olympus is, bc oh boy will you be for one big blue disappointment 😭😭

[@katelyntaylor7384]

About Ingrid, the whole attachment she had with Emma. Ingrid wanted magical sisters that would replace the ones she lost. The first was her niece, Elsa. The second was Emma. Ingrid came to our world in the 80s and ended up being a foster mother to Emma in the 90s when Emma was 14/15. That was the part of the Frozen arc that redeemed it for me, because we got to see more of Emma's past and we don't get much of that over the course of the show

[@Ratabombástik]

YES! I totally agree. BUT I feel like that could've happened without the weird Frozen arc(And I say thar having watched it as a child who really loved frozen and it had me LIVINGG). The Snow Queen is a very interesting and dark fairytale by itself, Ingrid and the whole Mirror Curse thing had a lot of potential, but the disney-fication of it ruined it up. I loved the costumes for Ingrid too 😅

[@katelyntaylor7384]

@@Ratabombástik oh yeah, I agree with you. Throwing in the Disney characters from Frozen (especially Anna and Kristoff) wasn't necessary as anything more than 'Current Disney property marketing'. Those new characters also end up taking limited screentime from the characters we already know, care about, and love (looking at you, Anna, during White Out while Emma was trapped in the cave). The Snow Queen arc, like a lot of the show, had a lot of potential that the show never tapped, and that's a shame.

[@MsIvalane]

Man I was obsessed with this show for *years*, then once season 7 dropped I was done, and I haven't ever really felt that draw since. Regina is such a complicated character for me to consider, because of the Graham issue; a lot of the fairy tale land stuff I can overlook because it's, you know, *fairly tale land*. Terrible things happen all the time, it's the nature of the magic or whatever. But the nearly thirty year "relationship" she maintained with Graham so deeply disturbed me that I never managed to get over it and appreciate her arc beyond it. Every time I see some positive comment about her in fandom circles, I have to stifle my knee-jerk 'oh you mean the r*pist?' reactions. I think the writers were just too shallow and too fixated on the concept of a redemption arc to really comprehend the things they were writing; Zelena's another really incredible example of how some people just don't deserve to be redeemed. Some people so aggressively break the social contract that they *should* be shunned, shouldn't be given just another chance to be the better person they might or might not be capable of. I missed Jefferson after season 1. The actor did such an amazing job with his body language, the character is tragic and it's terrible what he's suffered and he *has* suffered and he's just. Dangerous. Mad and dangerous. I loved him. Of course, Seb went on to much bigger and better things, so good for him. Hook's actor is so damn charming and charismatic that the weak shitty character writing often seemed to fly by, but boy the Dark One arc ruined both he and Emma.

[@Rox7ne]

I agree with you 100%. Tbh I wanted to see the show for years but when it came out I had like 10 yrs so my mom didn't let me lol. However years passed and I watched it in 2020 in a very difficult time in my life, and it being about fairytales (sometimes cringey) and the whole "happily ever after" made this show turn into a comfort show, especially amidst the pandemic. But ngl I DID see the glaring problems with it.... also regarding Neal. Neal basically getting a teen Emma pregnant and then just abandoning her (and kinda grooming her)... and not to mention the weird age difference between them due to Neal's age stopping in Never Land and then him leaving... yeah nO. Also as much as I liked Regina and Rumple's complexity as characters... idk I don't think their redemption should've been as easy as "differentiating between black or white" yk?? Hook fr made me stick to the show (especially in s3, also including Peter Pan bcs I loved that actor's performance) bcs he was so dang charming lol but I did get kinda sad he went from this banterful, mysterious rogue to just a puppy-love struck guy for Emma... Like- I loved their banters and their more forward chemistry, but then they just made him stop, and always brought his "villain side" for plot's sake. IDK it's just- he was very hell bent on revenge when he met Emma, it would've been nice to see him struggle a bit more about it when he started getting feelings for her and not just suddenly "doing the right thing" bcs he fell for her.. bcs then it also made it seem like he moved on from Milah too fast by pursuing Emma but then he was wanting to kill Rumple for years so???' That was kinda weird. I personally did NOT see s7 lmao after seeing ep1 I just KNEW it'd be a sh*t show. I just watched the other 2 eps with the OG cast (aka ep2 and the last one). But regardless of that, the Charming family fr made the show a comfort show for me, even with all their funny drama 😂😂

[@ladyfibonaccii]

"You know what the issue is with this world? Everyone wants a magical solution to their problem, and everyone refuses to believe in magic." Best line in the whole series. 👌 Magic really is everywhere.

[@MsIvalane]

@@ladyfibonaccii that truly is the best line

[@romeostruedude]

Meh Season 7 really was not that bad. There’s still some good stuff in it.

[@kittyunderwood8918]

42:25 Regina actually calls Zelena out for what she did to Robin, and says the only reason she has the baby is because she violated Robin in the most vile way possible, or something like that. Which is soooo hypocritical coming from her given her treatment of Graham

[@petramajstorovic4864]

Hook being the dark one just didn't make sense. You don't stop being the dark one just because you don't remember it. It was described as a force you couldn't fight, with souls(?) of past dark ones haunting you. That wouldn't stop just because you forgot. Hook turning dark without anything else happening as soon as he remembers the past always felt weird.

[@gisela_oliveira]

the show kinda forgot it's own rules at some point.

[@maxiargos1971]

Sorry for this but I am going to say the line, "I was 10" always made me mad for this reason a lone. It could have been more then just, "I was 10" It could have been her reflecting on it. So I'm to go down a list of what the writers should have done and how it would have been great if they did it, because it would mean they where focusing on the characters and there development of finding out the truth of there town and who they once where. -Snow finding out that her actions of thinking Regina just needed to talk to her mother lead to the death of Regina's love, and so many people being hurt by this action sinking into her. A moment of guilt if you will. And her thinking if she didn't say anything not so many people would have died or be cursed. And thinking for a while she shouldn't say anything to anyone, until she can think more about it. -Snow reflecting on her past as a child and her realizing her father might not be as good of a man as she thinks he is. You can call me crazy here, but the dad was always so creepy to me. Mostly because his logic made no sense to me. So he wanted a young wife to replace his wife who died, and to mother his child after her passing. Not someone the same age as he is?...LIKE YO. And not only that Regina very clearly doesn't want to marry him, and everyone is forcing her to be a mother and bear it. I wished the show addressed this fact of how creepy and forced it was for her to be put into this role, but they mostly wanted to fill in this box for drama, then for it to be looked back on and talked about. Also really quick speaking about her being forced to be a mother. The one time she looked happy or content being one was when she took in Henry who she named after her father. This was HER choice and she named her son after the only person who loved her and wanted her happiness. Yes the whole thing was messed up, but the fact this is what she wanted, and in the show it dose frame how she loves her son and all despite how controlling she can be at times. Makes her a good complex character. -Then of course Snow realizing it was not her fault at all, cause Regina did kill her father by using a magic genie after all, and took snow's home and land away from her forcing her to run away. A child. I mean it. We could have gotten so much of Snow realizing so much of her past in this moment, and how it could have developed, but all we got was a, "I was just 10" to wrap it all up. Which is why with all these things addressed makes me mad at this missed gold mine they where given for her and Regina's character.

[@angelaholmes8888]

I really enjoyed the early seasons of the show the series really made a big mistake doing the frozen storyline it really jumped the shark to me they should had ended the show in season 6

[@katarinababic9197]

One thing that I absolutely cannot forgive the creators is killing Robin but bringing Hook back to life.

[@nicky5669]

yes!!

[@sammillward62]

At the end of Season 2 it seemed like Hook came back to help because he felt guilty about having betrayed Baelfire and then thought that he was dead after that. They should have kept that going instead of making them love rivals in season 3. I think that would have been a lot more interesting.

[@queenb2450]

Agree but also I like they saw how much chemistry Hook had with Emma and was like "let's make them be together" their romance was another highlight tbh bc it was super unexpected

[@sammillward62]

@@queenb2450 that's fair, I personally didn't love their romance, (or at least the way that it was executed, but moreover I feel there should have been more of a payoff with Hook and Baelfires past that kinda just got forgotten and never brought up again. I don't like the whole love rivalry between the two of them.

[@Blokewood3]

After the brief love rival part of the Neverland arc, there was a moment of acknowledgment of this where Hook hugs Neal and says that he sometimes forgets that Neal is the same person as Baelfire.

[@sammillward62]

@@Blokewood3 that's fair. I honestly had forgotten about that part since I haven't seen the show in quite a while. I still feel they should have done more with it though. As is it feels a bit like that was an afterthought

[@Blokewood3]

@@sammillward62 There's so much they should have done more with, but they got overwhelmed with so many characters and so many stories.

[@frogradar]

I will always find the downfall to be the Frozen arc and the constant backtracking of character development. There's no reason why Belle kept reverting to her "we cant do this rumple, but i'll forgive you" shit every single season.

[@sunshinejones6418]

Jennifer Morrison (Emma) is a regular where I work, trust me, over 10 years later without all the TV magic SHES STILL INSANELY BEAUTIFUL literally stunning in person

[@Vampgurl202]

Is she a sunny type of person? I always got the sense she'd be really nice and just be a happy person

[@sunshinejones6418]

@@Vampgurl202 she’s the sweetest !! When I totally fan girled in front of her the first time we met she was extremely humble and remembered me every time she saw me after that! She seems so happy and I’m glad girly deserves it

[@valhatan3907]

Did she stop acting? Dang, we lost a talent

[@sunshinejones6418]

@@valhatan3907 she still makes guest appearances on things (this is us) she also directs now and is focusing on family as far as I know !

[@natashaa43]

The Pixie cut was Ginnifer's choice, it might actually have been in her contract. She prefers her hair short and she resented not having control of the length in her previous show 'Big love'.

[@frankieloves7078]

Belle actually was one of my favourites when the episode when they had her back story. They could have done so much but they dropped it 😢 I liked that it seemed to try and explore Stockholm syndrome but didn't do the unrealistic happy ending.

[@gisela_oliveira]

I was a lot more incling into her lovestory with Will Scarlet, I would love to see the show take a turn and have them be toguether for good after Rumple died, since i wish they had made him stay dead because it got annoying to see him go trough the same arc over and over

[@frankieloves7078]

@@gisela_oliveira completely forgot about this! Yes you are right 👍

[@manicpixiefangirl4189]

Stockholm Syndrome is not a thing. Definitely not the way you think it is.

[@LK-mo8bj]

100% spot on with the redemption obsession. Nobody stays a villain?! And the heroes were portrayed to be just as villainous at times. What in heck do heroes fight against then? The lines were so blurry as to be meaningless. I guess there is no right and wrong, just your point of view and victimhood context.

[@ThePrincessCH]

Redemption arcs have been an ongoing trend in American entertainment since "Avatar: The Last Airbender." I can't think of an American series after "Avatar: The Last Airbender" that hasn't tried to do one.

[@willlyon7129]

The villains of this show are it’s writers and producers

[@motherofdraakjes]

i used to watch this show with my sister, but we both totally lost it when Henry asked people to make wishes to bring magic back. He was way too old at that point for that "cute little believer" thing to work...

[@anthony449]

I once set my auto-signature on Outlook to "Swanfire forever". I was down that rabbit hole.

[@cal943]

"It's a bit confusing as to who they were making this show for" Girl, me. They made it for me. The utter CHAOS that is this show will inspire and soothe me until my inevitable return to the void.

[@Josiemiax]

same, it’s my ultimate comfort show - about to rewatch it for the thousandth time lol

[@hiddenechoes]

❤ more power to you, enjoy 😊

[@CatePapula]

Same the chaos in this show is very good and inspires a lot of writing for me.

[@maisymariee]

As someone who loves Once Upon A Time, I'm so excited to hear your thoughts and opinions. I can't wait to watch this!

[@casihamilton3773]

THANK YOU for talking about Graham. I feel like everyone just sweeps him under the rug. He is the chief reason I was never able to get on the Regina Redemption train.

[@manicpixiefangirl4189]

Yeah, nothing Regina does is selfless. Hook too as a matter of fact. It was literally a case of “they are hot and shippers are obsessed with them”.

[@evulpes]

I loved belle and rumple in the bezinning, also because they were a bit problematic. 😅 I hate what they did to them later on in the series. Love that you are making ouat videos! ♡

[@mystic_mimi21]

I hated belle’s character, her relationship was so toxic and I got so angry when she kept forgiving Gold, and Gold kept kissing himself that he was good, then he would be evil again .

[@thesparks00]

1:07:15 belle as a character goddamn on point. i love emilie! but her screentime left much to be desired because she was FILLER. the poor writing sabotaged her so much. they tried to do something deep with rumbelle but it was just meh. thankfully the actors outsold. i love rumbelle and all the FANFICS!

[@OpticalSorcerer]

Three things that I feel held this show back: 1. Both Storybrooke and the Enchanted Forest felt boring after a while. I'd have liked new cities in the real world to be explored, as well as new locations in the fairy tale world that didn't feel random or disjointed from the main fairy tale kingdom. 2. The "it's never really over" flashbacks to keep the web of connections going. Not everyone has to know each other or encountered this season's heroes or villains. They could be from a different kingdom (see point 1) or victims of a different curse, which could set up a road trip/spinoffs. 3. The repetitiveness of it all. Progress isn't linear irl, but seeing characters backtrack or repeat the same story makes for uninteresting tv. And side note: I REALLY wish they called Lana to reprise her role for Disney's "Snow White" remake.

[@willlyon7129]

That just annoys me is that they flip back and forth on the past and present.

[@OpticalSorcerer]

@@willlyon7129 I actually liked that, personally. I'd be bored if we had half a season of just the Enchanted Forest and the rest was just of Storybrooke.

[@willlyon7129]

@@OpticalSorcerer Or introduce the audience to lesser known characters and creatures from folktales

[@OpticalSorcerer]

​@@willlyon7129 That would've made the show stand out more with fairy tale franchises, but they likely felt familiarity would be better to get people invested--especially the Disney characters.

[@willlyon7129]

@@OpticalSorcerer Because it’s owned by Disney. And I call that nostalgic pandering

[@icomeandgobybubble87]

Ingrid was obsessed and stalking Emma not because she liked her in any way, but because she lost a sister, killing her by accident, and because Emma has magic, as does her niece, Elsa, she wanted them to replace her sisters. It was pretty crazy.

[@geeves3118]

YES!!! Killing off Neal was the worst decision they made! Emma could have still been with Hook. Emma and Neal could just have co-parented Henry and had their own individual storyline too

[@youtubeshow7576]

I'll forever be mad that Henry and Neal didn't get more screentime together

[@makaylaberrey4040]

I have loved this show for many years and love that you're covering it 😊

[@malloryweeks3306]

I love it too and it’s my favourite go to to keep watching over and over again

[@SerenaSkybourne]

It is a very easy watch

[@pam9919]

Out might be messy trash but it will always be MY messy trash

[@SerenaSkybourne]

I feel the same way about Pretty Little Liars

[@pam9919]

@@SerenaSkybourne Same lol Pretty little liars wasn’t the show we needed nor wanted but I loved every minute of it

[@Tamara-gz4um]

This is the video I didn't know I needed. I used to be so obsessed with it that I got my entire family to watch it. Me and my sister had so many insiders about Rumpelstilzchen and my mother never failed to mention Mary Margarets haircut every time she had the opportunity. I saw many similar things to the points you mentioned when I was watching the series. So I'll be very excited to see what more you have to say. Also, I'm probably the only one, but I got really attached to Red Ridinghood and Mulan too. I to this day am disappointed that both of them were just ignored when they would have been interesting characters to focus on or properly bring back in later seasons.

[@DrTimes99]

Hook, down right one of the worst individual's and the biggest creep/jerk to Neal. 1) Plays the role of homewrecker, starting up a relationship with Neal's mom, taking her away and leaving him motherless. Therefore forcing a crippled Rumple into an overprotective single father status, with an obsession of keeping Neal close. 2) Later plays the role of replacement father to Neal, in Neverland, initially planning on handing him over to Pan, but only changing his mind when realizes who's kid he is and that he can pump him for information. 3) He nearly kills Rumple in front of Neal after the two reunited after 300 years. Yes Neal wasn't happy to see his father, but he didn't want him brutally murdered. 4) Hooks hooks up with Emma. So not only did he steal Neal's mom, but also his baby mama.

[@manicpixiefangirl4189]

Exactly. Hook sucked all the ass.

[@twilightskiesx]

Whomp whomp

[@PippaCrossed]

Thank you so much for calling out the Blue Fairy, that woman is EVIL!!!!!!!

[@SerenaSkybourne]

literally what was wrong with her, she's deranged

[@johanna3784]

Rumple being a horrible person is why I like him so much, cuz like that’s fun, and his “redemptions” are so ridiculous because I don’t think he ever puts in any effort to actually redeem himself, except maybe once for his son. Like he is not a good person and he’s not trying to be, yet every time he betrays the other characters they’re so shocked

[@willlyon7129]

I blame his parents.

[@Ocean-gh7wz]

I only watched the show because Rumple since I started with his episode but I got SO TIRED that the writers literally wanted to dump the blame of every single female villain on him. Like, they had zero creativity about them, but Zelena the Rapist was a special slap in the face.

[@Jellybeansatdusk]

Belle and Rumple is like your friend who is in an abusive relationship that has so much going for them and so much potential and you just want to help them but they won’t help themselves bc they give everything to this person who drains everything from them 😭 way too real, should not have been romanticized

[@Kayoss13212]

Yeah. I actually stopped feeling sorry for Belle after a while. The writers basically turned her into a walking carpet for Rumple. It’s always an excuse for him or that all it takes is a speech about changing, that she goes running back to him.

[@MrTwentington]

I can explain why the dark swan storyline is the worst stories of the whole series! It’s because it could’ve been amazing. There was a trailer they brought out at the time of release where Emma had like diamond crust on her face like Rumple had gold scales- she was acting strange and childlike and was evil in the enchanted forest. And all of that IS interesting. Seeing a noble virtuous character go bad and lean into her past traumas and act out of character for legit reasons and have the whole cast save her could’ve been interesting but then we got what we got instead

[@suncoco6495]

😑 That sounds so much more enjoyable to watch. I hated the direction of S4.

[@xulliaxuxu]

yess!! I am rewatching the show with my mom, and we just arrived at s5. It's truly both funny and depressing to see how she went from being obsessed with the show and now just wanting to skip to the final episode, lol. So much wasted potential. Even the little 10-year-old me that had gone crazy over the ending of season four, imagining all the great possibilities for s5, was SHOCKED by how it all went down hill…

[@gabrielleduplessis7388]

I feel the snow having a nice life could be one thing. She is always known as being resilient and kind and perseveres no matter what Regina throws at her. And everyone else just being tortured goes with the being stick in time. The magic just leaves them at where they left off before the curse. Or it sensed their biggest punishments. I think Regina just wanted to seem like she had power over everyone when in reality, she was lonely and just tortured herself on the inside. She always had some good in her.

[@jazza724]

The time and effort that went into this is incredible!

[@SerenaSkybourne]

Thankyou 🥹

[@alexandraburton232]

Thanks for the deep dive! I can't wait to see the rest of your OUAT series and I would love to see your points on how you would change/tweak/fix the problems in the future seasons. I agree that with their arcs wrapped up the show should have ended strongly in season 6 with maybe a big finale against their 'wish selves'. Plus with Snow White and Charming I loved their story but I admit I would have loved if they were a couple like Evy and Rick from the first two Mummy films. Both passionately in love but working and getting stronger together to stop the obstacles while still learning more about themselves or each other.

[@rebekahsedwick3511]

Watching this video made me realize I have mentally blocked and forgotten almost everything that happened after the 'Frozen' subplot.

[@mrsscreamgirl5332]

Same

[@luisc5223]

i remember getting so mad that neal was killed off, i really wanted to see him in further seasons, and it really annoyed me the fact that he had to die just so emma and hook could be toguether like WHAT WAS THE REASOOOON

[@SerenaSkybourne]

I really felt like his death was too premature, they could have at least kept him on for one more season

[@luisc5223]

@@SerenaSkybourne i think so too, and i also agree that rumple should've died instead because honestly it would've been such a great and memorable ending for him, but keeping him alive just to throw all of his character development away by making him constantly make the same mistakes to a point that it felt so lame and repetitive

[@luisc5223]

and the plot of his and belle's son in s6 like what the fuck was that

[@manicpixiefangirl4189]

The ONLY reason is the Hook actor was “hotter”. So many choices the show made was just to cater to crazy shippers.

[@luisc5223]

@@manicpixiefangirl4189 EXACTLY

[@stephjovi]

Had to check. They're still married. Very cute family on Instagram. For the haircut she has the same hair cut again she had it before too. It's just her thing. And for make up can we just stop demanding that women have long hair fake lashes and tons of make up? I'm literally redoing my nail Polish while watching this, love my long hair and have to convince myself to go to the grocery store without putting on make up bc who cares what I look like, but we should normalise that women on TV don't always have to wear long hair and make up.

[@SerenaSkybourne]

I love that they’re still married ❤️ And I agree with all your points, but also I think over so many seasons it’s nice to see when they experiment with different hair styles for visual interest.

[@SerenaSkybourne]

And as for the makeup thing I also agree, but I was legit getting concerned for Emma’s health because she looked kind of pasty but I think that’s because she’s under these harsh filming lights with little to no makeup

[@gisela_oliveira]

@@SerenaSkybourne Maybe is just me, but the lack of makeup in Emma made her look older than Snow and David. They had the same age, but as time passes in the show, she seems to age and they don't.

[@crispycol4904]

In my honest opinion, Snow & Charming should've been removed from the main cast after they had their new child. I think it was the end of their story for them there. After this they just kinda became annoying, their plots seemed convoluted, the writers just didn't know what to do with them. It kinda annoyed me that each half-season was themed around something, instead of multiple plots and characters being mixed like in the first few seasons. The Frozen stuff was like okay, really liked Ingrid, but the Frozen cast overstayed their welcome. But I was very excited with the queen of darkness, but they never went through with them. Especially the Lily plotline was super interesting. Mulan is also the most wasted character on the show, she could've been a main character. She had lots of plots going around... discovering her sexuality, joining the Merry Men, being a gateway for more Asian fairy tales to be introduced. Ugh, so annoying, and how they disrespected her at the end is so bad. The reboot season I kinda liked, because it felt fresh. But I also felt like this could've been done with the original cast. The whole Rapunzel/Tremaine plotline was very interesting and really showed how well they could combine fairy tales. The unexplored coven plotline was interesting as well. But the whole integration of the realms, timeskips etc was just a bad taste.

[@natalietaylor8390]

I thought that Peter Pan was going to be Rumple’s brother; it was the biggest shock that he was his father!

[@willlyon7129]

That would have been interesting to have Hook and Pan as brothers. Instead he’s a pedofile.

[@willlyon7129]

That would been much better, or maybe Hook’s brother.

[@kennyhudson9201]

The Hook and Emma shipping and pairing, and it not being Neal and Emma and Henry as a loving family happily ever after ruined the show. The writers gave in to the online shipping mob.

[@rainbowdreams341]

they didn’t they saw the chemistry between the two actors for emma and hook and wanted to make them a couple

[@kennyhudson9201]

@@rainbowdreams341 Yeah, gave in to the shipping. They just happened to be shippers too. They should have wanted to do a family happily ever after. but they didn't so I stopped watching. It was lame teenage crap at that point.

[@andrear4954]

I loved OUAT and yeah it was pretty messy but Grahams character wasn't in the show because the actor Jamie Dornan went on to do... this other movie, so I'm not that mad at the writers for what happened The Neverland arc was my absolute favourite, Peter Pan was so ruthless as a villain and Robbie Kay played him brilliantly, there were other smaller arcs I enjoyed too like the Jekyll and Hyde arc or how Ruby Red Riding Hood ended up being the wolf

[@mollymccracken2740]

FINALLY someone brings up the SA shit. It was so wild how the show handled it.

[@eneaslavinia]

This is the best take on the show I've ever heard or read and thank you for posting it. Some of the things you said were my complaints for so long and you finally proved I wasn't alone. As a great Rumbelle fan who later found herself in extreme frustration with the couple, I'm particularly grateful for your words about them and I can't wait to watch the new video you posted. I will add about August/Pinocchio that I often got the impression he had meant to be some kind of love interest for Emma but the writers eventually backpedalled on that because of Hook and were left with nothing to have him do. Which I found incredibly disappointing because August was the most human, even relatable of the fairytale characters and could have had a lot of potential, if not with Emma with one of the many Disney princesses who were wasted on the show.

[@SerenaSkybourne]

I’m a bit disappointed as well that August and Emma weren’t made into more of a thing; they could have done something interesting with that.

[@eneaslavinia]

I certainly thought they had good chemistry and an interesting dynamic. The fact that he instantly bonded with Henry also seemed to be going somewhere. I'm disappointed to this day because, Emma or not, he was very much about guilt and family in a way that was strangely edgy and relatable for probably tons of adults, but might not have captivated the younger audience. @@SerenaSkybourne

[@jenniferhanses]

Regarding Will Scarlet, I believe he was the jack of Hearts in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland. So what happened was that they built him up and then sent him off to his own series, which really needs to be watched after that season of Once Upon a Time. And you should probably include it in your deep dive (though maybe you do, I'm not at the finish, but it sounds like you haven't.)

[@manicpixiefangirl4189]

Yeah. Honestly, the Wonderland show was much better written in the end.

[@kenzieolmstead]

From what I know, Wonderland had ended before Season 4 of OUAT had started. The actor of Will was promised a larger role and storyline in OUAT after Wonderland was canceled, but then the writers didn't do anything with his character. He was supposed to be a much bigger character (which is why they built him up the way they did in S4), but then it didn't happen and so his character disappeared.

[@tjfrizzi5965]

You forgot how Hook as soon as Neal was dead swooped in and got involved with Emma.

[@FenrirInFlowers]

The guy who ran off with Neal's mom went on to run off with Neal's lover as soon as he was dead. That was always a special kind of ick for me. I walked away from the series once they killed Neal off.

[@rainbowdreams341]

not quite. sure hook was definitely attracted to her but they don’t end up together till the end of season 3 neal dies mid season 3

[@tell-me-a-story-]

Zuko from Avitar shows you how to do a redeption arch. They showed that he was decent from the start in a lot of ways, they gave him valid exuses, they made his redemption consistent with who he already is, and he never actually sucseeds in hurting Ang. If you want to redeem your villian, you have to make them reedeemable in the first place.

[@thatmessy132]

I quit this show around the time when Ursula and Cruela were arriving in Storybrook, so I don't know what show Cruela is like, but movie Cruela just wanted to slay some puppies, most of the other villains are murderers (or have attempted). Regina's SA moments were cringe AF and they ruined a perfectly evil character and made her irredeemable.

[@bicassual]

hope you had the same energy for hook's sexual assault and harassment on emma and others. and you stopped watching by time zelena had obviously raped robin, too. lucky you. wish i stopped there. but my point is, it's kind of silly to just point the finger at her character when the writers themselves admitted sexual assault wasn't their goal with regina, they were just stupid men and didn't know how to write sexual empowerment properly lol. never trust men to write women and sexuality.

[@violetlavi2207]

Show Cruella was about the same as that iirc. At the very least, she was unapologetically evil. Which is a rarity for OUAT

[@thatmessy132]

@@violetlavi2207 so, she just wanted to look fabulous 👌🏿

[@margisama]

God yes, killing Neil off PURELY so they could pair Hook and Emma up damaged so much about the story (especially Rumple). Have a woman realistically have to navigate her past issues and feelings and ultimately choose which of the two to be with? Keep Neil alive because his existence wasn't purely to be Emma's ex, have him have his own story-lines and working out his relationships with his father and son and other characters? Nope! Just kill him off because he was Hook's 'competition' for Emma. Grrr....and you're right...I loved Rumbelle in the beginning but they committed true character assassination against Rumple because he was a convenient scapegoat when they needed a character to do something bad. And yes...completely ignoring the fact that both Regina and Zelena are outright rapists but never face any consequences or are even called out for their actions and Graham never receives any form of justice for his abuse and murder is just....gross. If a male character did what Regina did to Graham to a female character there would've been utter furor, but because Regina (and Zelena) is a pretty woman it's a gigantic double-standard and swept under the rug to be forgotten.

[@DucktorDoom]

Graham quite literally sexually assaults Emma in the exact same episode that it's revealed Regina sexually assaulted him. And yet people have been woobifying Graham for years and calling him ~Emma's true love~ and other such nonsense. Tell me again that if a male character sexually assaulted a female character there would've been utter furor. 🙄

[@DeerBoy736]

@@DucktorDoom When and how Graham SAd Emma? I watched the show long ago and there's no way I ever touch it again.

[@margisama]

He kissed Emma. Not what I'd call SA (not cool, certainly, but certainly not on the level of Regina actually raping him in the enchanted forest (take him to my chambers) and then giving him fake memories that they were a couple so she could continue to sleep with him in SB. @@DeerBoy736

[@matteosoldo]

I remember so clearly the scene where rumple and Belle were dancing and suddenly... The music is "tale as old as time", and I went "f***, they're going full Disney". And they did, and it sucked

[@willlyon7129]

That’s because it’s a Disney fanfic

[@misssupercookie2011]

My weird thing about this show is that I do not think the writers are good at what they do (there were good individual episodes but the quality overall from s4 onwards was a massive drop). Honestly, Adam and Eddy could put the Chris Chibnall era of Doctor Who to shame at certain points. And this show becomes very obviously written by Cishet White Men. And yet... I do feel sympathy for them to some degreee because of the amount of issues there were behind the scenes. As someone who was there, the fandom drama was reletnless; Adam was bullied off social media twice and called all sorts of names and regardless of my feelings on the man, that is not okay. They were desperately trying to please every corner of the fandom while also trying to tell the story they wanted. Rumple and Belle are a perfect example of this; Rumple flip flops everywhere because he needs to either be the romantic hero part of the fandom wanted or the villain the story needed. Actresses were getting pregnant left and right. Jared Gilmore was rapidly growing. The network did that awkward thing everyone did in the 2010s of throwing in mid-season hiatuses. The Mouse had his boot on their necks. They had nine main characters to balance. And that's not counting the rumours floating around tumblr at the time. This isn't to say they should get off scot free. Bad writing is bad writing, poor planning is poor planning. They really could've benefitted from having a third person on their head writing team (fun fact, they had had an unofficial third person on their team up until season 3, I can't remember the name but both Adam and Eddy credit him as a mentor). Misogyny, homophobia and racism are worthy of criticism regardless, though they did make more of an effort later down the line. The way she show treated sexual violence is disgusting and should always, no matter what, be called out. Also I hate that it's 2023 and I still have thoughts on this show someone put me out of my misery,

[@ouat567]

Im a big fan of the show but i only started watching in 2019 so i missed all of those fandom fights back in the day, and those were definitely very impactful of the series, so thanks for your comment. I got curious about the tumblr rumors though...

[@LadyQAB]

I am rewatching the show right now and you are so right season 3 episode 11 going home could have been the end. I had no trouble watching the episode before that now I am stranded at S3 E13. Everything is just less fun now and HOW DARE THEY KILL OFF NEAL

[@OsbiaNnight]

Did you watch the Spin off Once Upon A Time In Wonderland?..... sorry, only remembered it when you mentioned Will Scarlet

[@WinterWind]

Talk about bad CGI lol

[@pennymandy6804]

I was just barely a teen when I started this show when it came out and loved it, it was my comfort show and I have a soft spot for it because of that. I never really thought much about why I couldn’t continue the show after season 5 even though I tried twice after rewatching it, but now years later with your great and very spot on analysis of the show. I finally get why I couldn’t watch it anymore, season 5 burned me out and yes the show got worse after Neal’s death, but I could at least enjoy season 4. I definitely agree with all of the issues that you brought up with the show in this video. It makes me sad that this show had plenty of potential and the actors were great, but the writing really started to flop significantly after season 4. Season 5 was soooo boring and useless that I never watched the later seasons. Great video, enjoyed it a lot 😆

[@SerenaSkybourne]

My dress is from Zara Basic from those of you that are asking! I got it second hand

[@FrumiousMing8]

Graham WAS done so dirty. I never forgot him either. His death added stakes and a real sense of danger. But then they follow that up with like, never mentioning him again. Big shocking death that amounted to nothing. Back in season 2, I thought it was an interesting concept to have like an organization that was dedicated to eliminating or fighting magic in the "real world". I think it would've been a fresh opponent for the characters to take on, forcing them to work together as a team to defeat an organization rather than 1 evil person. And it would give Emma a chance to shine as a leader, put her knowledge of the real world to use. But then that interesting concept is just like a lie Pan used to manipulate Greg and Tamara. Which makes him pretty smart as a villain but also was a waste of a something that could've made a great storyline and different, fresh direction for the show. Peter Pan is one my favorite stories and I loved season 3, I think the Neverland arc is the last time the show was great. But at the same time, I was really sad to see Wendy completely sidelined. She is the main character of the original story and it just sucked to have her not matter in the slightest in this show. They gave her an interesting set up too (with her friendship with Baelfire) and did nothing with it! I was so frustrated with that. Also Pan was looking for Henry and only took Lost Boys so they don't really explain why the shadow took Wendy to Neverland in the first place. I also just didn't like the romance between Regina and Robin. The actors had chemistry but I just don't understand why the characters like each other. They're nothing alike and their differences don't compliment each other. It's also absurd how little he does, similar to your points about Belle. He becomes one of the main characters, he's Robin fucking Hood and all he does is fall in love with Regina, get SA'd by Zelena, and then dies. He's so pointless and it's a shame. Another subplot that didn't make sense to me was that time they made the Charmings afraid of Emma's magic just so she could relate to Elsa's experience. Emma was using magic so much in season 3 and she hadn't mastered it yet but no one thought she was dangerous. Then suddenly people are scared of her and she's loosing control of her powers! Just like Elsa, wow! It came out of nowhere and was just a blatant attempt to work the Frozen characters into the story. Ugh 🙄 Also the fact that they never show Regina giving people their hearts back. I know her mother did some heart-stealing and they couldn't account for everyone, but like no attempt was made to show Regina actually setting things right that she did wrong. Like that was a tangible thing she could make amends for and they just didn't do that. Lana Parilla is so great in the role and makes Regina so fun to watch but the writers/show runners did their level best to make you hate Regina. There's obviously layers to her character and I do have sympathy for the ways in which she was manipulated and abused. But I'm sorry, you don't get to complain about not getting a happy ending when you still have a vault of stolen hearts. If you commit atrocities and you have to live with the consequences of your actions. Season 3 Regina was my favorite version of her because I felt like I understood her. She knew what she'd done in the past was wrong and was never going to be a village-slaughtering, curse-wielding maniac anymore. But that didn't mean she wasn't going to take the low road sometimes, she was willing to be the one of the family that would do something bad to protect her son. She wanted to not be at odds with the Charming family anymore, but she wasn't whinging about deserving a happy ending. She just wanted to be the best mother to Henry she could be. And personally, I think that was the most honest place for Regina to land.

[@shepard6280]

i think the only character that had a good arc and ending was the mad hatter. Max of what three episodes? Got his daughter, the end. We can assume he was affected by the curses and stuff but he never got involved. I know that's more to do with the actor going on to the big movie screen roles. But still a big character who helped get the poison apple from the enchanted forest to the real world for Regina and indrectly curse Henry that which broke the first curse etc. But i love the idea that he just didn't care enough to involve himself any further in the main storyline shenanigans.

[@CylonAlyna]

Peter Pan arc was my favorite. It was so well done. After that it became unbearable to watch. And killing Robin was the most stupid thing to do.

[@ashlyn37]

Wow, thank goodness I'm not alone in my opinion that killing off Neal was an awful choice. It really did seem like the only reason it happened was to resolve the love triangle, since there was still so much left to be explored with his character. Like, iirc Henry didn't remember who Neal was yet when he died, so it felt especially strange. I still tried to give the show a chance after he was killed off, but ultimately the show's approach to morality and redemption that you talked about made me stop watching after the Frozen plot

[@miguelsantos-cd9tu]

It's so bad that once upon a time live action of Hades is so boring and forgettable compared to animated one.

[@willlyon7129]

He was a carbon copy of the animated film, ever the other characters are just people in cosplay.

[@christophermerrill8925]

Was it just me who felt like they waited too long to try and make Henry an actual character rather than just being a plot device?

[@willlyon7129]

Not to mention he wasn’t the smartest kid protagonists in the show.

[@xxkehxx27]

girl i feel SO VALIDATED neal was my favorite character I thought his storyline had so much potential to do something so cool but tumblr loved hook too much and that's where they started letting tumblr basically write the show. i will always tell myself that the show ended with season 3.