Fixing the Squat Grip - Starting Strength Seminar

Mark Rippetoe and Starting Strength Seminar staff coaches make adjustments and corrections to the squat grip during the platform session at the Starting Strength Seminar.
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[@danieljones1939]

The coaching displayed here is the best I've ever seen.

[@Buzz_Kill71]

I bet being there would feel like being in Mecca... Or the Vatican

[@gurubazawada2936]

@@Buzz_Kill71 I'm black so I don't think it would go well for me in the Vatican

[@edwardburroughs1489]

@@gurubazawada2936 What, LOL. But you'd take your chances in Mecca?

[@nimnogaparus]

Tried narrowing my grip after watching this and it honestly made a huuuge difference. I'ts uncomfortable at first, but you stretch out pretty quick.

[@BitMatt1]

I wish I was that flexible. I fight this every set

[@polfae6883]

Love the emphasis on the tightness, way to often forgotten by many lifters!

[@kmantzoukas]

The squat is such a nuanced exercise and this video is just a testiment to that. This video is fucking gold!

[@genxer74]

Love this video! Just starting to do low bar squats and having trouble keeping the bar from "falling:" Not sure if I have enough shoulder flexibility

[@edisonli1647]

See you guys in the SD seminar!

[@CarlosRamirez-we8zi]

My shoulders and rotary cuff hurt with a close grip even with stretching and warm up exercise for rotary cuff

[@johanhansson4574]

I have the same issue but I dont think its the rotator cuff but the anterior ligaments in the shoulder capsule that are to stiff.

[@Mr-mopar]

Same here and I started doing shoulder dislocations with bands and then worked my way to using a broom stick..it has fixed this issue...also I have had two surgeries with my should and never thought it would be right again...hope this helps.

[@jd0879]

Don’t listen to the comments. For months I didn’t listen to my body and fought the pain of having a close grip eventually completing injuring my rotator cuff. Just keep a wider grip

[@ajkdrag]

If your arms are kinda long and lanky and with a close grip you find the bar either rolling up or your thumb is in the air, then slip get a wider grip, keeping the back at the same tightness as you would in a closer grip. This works for me, hope it would help someone. The key is to keep the bar placed on the "shelf" of your back and the hands just hold it in place.

[@CursedWheelieBin]

I can keep it on my back but I can’t grip the bar. I have to extend my wrists wayyy back and that’s just with a wide grip

[@mrdeneanon9519]

The vid i needed.. really struggle to get hands closer to shoulder with.. any stretches that would help with shoulder mobility or best to just go finger by finger in.. rinse and repeat? Great info.

[@hugogh3507]

Say what you want about rip but the man is amazing at teaching

[@mccallcarlson3580]

Okay, so elbows slightly further back than in line with the body. My queue for this is I lower my elbows until I feel my mid-traps press against the bar.

[@JoseVetereconomia]

I'm a bit confused about shoulder extension. Seems that in this other video there is a bit shoulder extension in order to keep the bar? I mean, seems the cue has chamged from elbows up to elbows down? Thanks man! Appreciate all your help and knowledge. Greetings from Spain!

[@JoseVetereconomia]

I meant this one kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWPXqoKCq6alrZI

[@anthonyluisi7096]

i get it. elbows down. shoulders back to form the shelf for the bar at or just below the spine of the scapula ? correct? What if you lack shoulder mobility and have severe impingenment due to injury and surgery and cant get in the position for the low bar placement? Can you still low bar squat?

[@strongmindsstrongbodies8155]

@startingstrength, what would you recommend for biceps tendinitis with squatting?

[@metal0n0v]

when I dive, I just exhale and bring my scapula together as much as possible. not the greatest shoulder mobility but working on that too. right bicep feels kinda overstretched on the outside after a heavy session... will try to ask someone to take a picture from behind me for reference I guess

[@13beyeker]

how come I couldn't find this video sooner? Wasted a lot of time trying to figure out what to do this video simplifed it in a few minutes.

[@JohnnyRay920]

I can not find the right spot on my back for a low-bar squat to save my ass! It always feels like the bar is going to slide down my back. A little higher up and then it's sitting on the bone of the spine of the scapula. I even have a bruise now on my left shoulder on the spine of the scapula. In the end, I always have to resort to doing high-bar squats to get my sets in. Also, squatting is murder on my shoulders and it even hurts my elbows some too.

[@CWBush73]

What is the cause of excessive wrist extension and in the hands holds the bar? I also know that there is no way I can get my grip in that close with elbows down.

[@TimeFlyingBy1884]

Can someone please tell me if this is the low bar squat or the high bar squat?

[@CaptJackAubreyOfTheRoyalNavy]

I ended up just switching to high bar. Low bar fucked with my elbows and shoulders (and hips) way too much. It always hurt. It never felt right. And I gave it a good try; over a year. I tried all sorts of corrective exercises, stretches, Lacrosse ball rolling, etc. High bar fixed all that shit for me, feels much more natural, and lets me just focus on the squat, rather than the pain and discomfort.

[@michelef406]

I've watch a video where it's said that elbows should be up but I don't remember if it was an older or a newer version. Is it elbow down or up?

[@michaelfuller1338]

Great examples of tactile cueing! (but a little intense for those of us w/ personal space hang-ups)

[@jamesbrown5262]

I dont have the flexibility to hold a elbows down, my grip is wider and Im forces to use high squat

[@clintkennedy8387]

"Elbows stay down, elbows stay down" Mark says here. 3rd edition of the blue book says elbows go up to lock the bar onto the shelf. Two entirely opposite instructions.

[@daxvax]

Dont let the elbows go back. From my experience They should be down and little back. Be sure to contract the lats and upper back and screw the thumb over bar. Its bad, use a thumb around grip.

[@jd0879]

@@daxvax You completely misunderstood his comment.

[@tonytrap]

I was gonna say 😂 he goes you don’t keep it locked with shoulder extension, you keep the elbows tight. Bruh wtf happens with 90+% 🤣

[@Francesco-cj3oi]

You are confusing a cue with a model

[@timorcutt278]

He changed his opinion from “elbows up” to “elbows down” at one point due to at heavy enough weights “elbows up” caused thoracic rounding. Do a tight back with elbows down, if that causes pain in the elbow joint switch to elbows up. Elbow joint can start hurting if you have long forearms that cause your arms to bear some of the load of the bar (this happened to me) Anyone can have a change of opinion as they receive new evidence.

[@Randomboiiii]

I'm struggling with my flexibility 😞

[@tylerhoward4306]

How come when I tried this my elbows hurt so bad I couldn't finish my other sets? Also the bar was rolling up and down my back with every rep. I usually grip the bar wider and raise my elbows and it feels way better

[@dragonchr15]

1. Make sure you wear a cotton t shirt, not one of those hybrid shirts. That keeps the bar from rolling as you sweat. Use chalk if needed. Bring your own if your gym does not have it. 2. The bar must be in the right spot on your back. There is a SS video that shows you the right position. 3. Do not grip the bar the way you do with a high bar squat. The thumb is above the bar. 4. Watch the part at the end of this video with the bald guy coaching the dude with the blue shirt.

[@jarecturner297]

The change from elbows up, to elbows down makes me wonder how many shoulders they've blown out. Edit: I have been experiencing some pain in my left shoulder after squating with the elbows up technique mentioned in the AoM, and the video posted in 2012 on this channel.

[@emreozgun3846]

Great point. I also watched the elbow up technique and going wide of course. I'll try elbows down with close grip.

[@user-vv4wt5jc6t]

Art of manliness?

[@AndreasHase]

In a previous video a year or so ago Rip explained to push the elbows back in order to tighten the back and make a strong shelf. Now I’m a little confused. Gonna try this out next workout.

[@mattdelvecchio1537]

Andreas Hase Yes, you probably are.

[@AndreasHase]

Matt D. so how far back should the elbows go?

[@JackgarPrime]

I have a tough time keeping my elbows in the right position. They tend to float around too much, even as I try to keep them in place. I often will end up having one elbow in a rather different position than the other. Something I badly need to work on.

[@mallvin2000]

JackgarPrime I have the same issue

[@hussainium6140]

Not sure if you still have this problem but think about pinning your triceps to your lats that should fix it.

[@theavglifter]

The aesthetics don't matter as long as you have a stable shelf.

[@singhofthehill]

Who is the man in the Rogue t-shirt?

[@llshzll7297]

4:04 "Ok Daddy"

[@mybartmanful]

Ok, so that "elbows down" is a change from previous instruction, ie. video 12/21/12.

[@viveksaini8568]

No, it's not.

[@JoseVetereconomia]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWPXqoKCq6alrZI

[@akumafuhen]

I've had no issues with this style until recently when I started doing the smolov. Everything is working great except my dam forearms hurt like crazy. On my last base week got day 3 and 4. After which I get a little break so I'm hoping it's because of over abuse (cause I've been squatting for about year and a half 3 times aweek). But this program has me squatting at 70%-85% for 30+ reps, so it's probably me getting fatigued and breaking my form especially on day 3.

[@jonathanramsey1269]

Chill

[@CursedWheelieBin]

SOS! Please help. I live in Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 without access to starting strength experts in person so I’m piecing this altogether from videos and that’s it because it’s mostly bro-science and amateur PTs over here. Starting strength has got me way stronger than I thought possible but I’ve hit some roadblocks: My elbows (particularly the right) are excruciatingly sore in the low bar position no matter how much I try to force my shoulders to externally rotate. I’ve exercised all my life but just can’t get the bar on there without throbbing pain in my tendons that stays with me all week. The last time I tried this program I had to stop and go back to high bar squatting. The only way I can sit the bar on the spine of my scapula is by extending my upper arms out behind me, and have my hands out wide. Again, with lots and lots of pain (worse each week). I’ve tried band dislocations, I’ve tried warming up my scapula, retracting it as hard to the point I’m blue in the face but this pain is inevitably leading to injury. Should I just not do this? Any advice would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance. Is it possible to do this stuff without a coach or am I just gonna injure myself?

[@jonathanramsey1269]

You need to read the Starting Strenghth blue book as well as the Practical Programming book to answer all of your questions

[@BaconEggsRL]

what happened to "elbows up"

[@coreyhickman3095]

Byess...it does.

[@CWBush73]

Damn those hands are close

[@Rekovnii]

In this video: 1:54 "elbows down" kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWPXqoKCq6alrZI 7:35 "elbows up" So which one is it mark?

[@Rekovnii]

@Fred Tedason Either way he was talking trash at some point while trying to come across as some kind of lifting guru.

[@SuperTFRO]

If I take a week off or drink too much the close grip is awful. But if I don't use it my elbows hurt. The solution is don't drink too much and don't take a week off.

[@CigEconomy]

Fuck man, why do I remember Starting Strength teaching elbows up? Been doing it wrong for a while.

[@araceli3094]

So are the elbows supposed to be down or up? 😣

[@ezramelchor8421]

That depends on the person. Generally speaking the forearms should be almost parallel with the torso, and the weight of the bar supported by the shelf made by the scapula. Some slight lean forward is required to maintain this position, which varies from person to person.

[@UltimateNinjaSrb]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHD grip

[@jcarty123]

Ah. The narrower grip makes the shoulder blades do the right "shelf".

[@spoonyofsalty1167]

I've been using shoulder extension... I feel ashamed.

[@billybrothers2492]

me too lol. caused me bicep tendonitis.

[@alexandermurdoch4641]

So what are you supposed to do when you build up your upper back to the point that you can't grip over the bar anymore? I want to see what happens when someone's anatomy doesn't allow them to grip narrowly, what do you suggest then?

[@adamshillingburg2925]

Alexander Murdoch I have this problem. I cannot get my arms anywhere close to what these people are doing. I have stretched and pulled, but I can’t do it without major wrist flextion.

[@alexandermurdoch4641]

@@adamshillingburg2925 Ya, all these guys are relatively small, no offense intended, with moderate to long arms. I want to see an advanced lifter with shorts arms set up. From this demo, the only way I can low bar would be considered "wrong".

[@KriegWaters]

Long arms would be more of a hindrance, or at least relatively long forearms. When you get to the point where you are so muscled that you need to widen the grip, that wider grip will have the back plenty tight. Most people that think they need a wider grip really need to fix something else.

[@alexandermurdoch4641]

My question was more aimed at people who literally cannot grip over the bar and get in the "classical" low bar position on the back of the shoulders. I would disagree with your assumption that if one were to have a wide and developed upper back that one would necessarily have the "Shelf" by default. If you have large traps, the lower part of them will stick out more than your rear delts unless you can orient the delts properly (ie a narrow grip or bring elbows up). As stated, if you physically cannot take a narrow grip and your wrists are in flexion at that wide grip, you cannot move the bar lower. If you stand up, the bar falls into your hands and you have to lean over.

[@KriegWaters]

I'm not sure the body type you describe exists without surgery and implants. The delt shelf gets sufficiently tight because larger muscles require less movement to be closer. Can you name an example of a lifter with lats to big/arms too short?

[@blakebarons1090]

My elbows hurt watching this

[@JoseVetereconomia]

Blake barons so my ones do!😂

[@DavidByrne85]

Was thinking EXACTLY the same. I'm content to sacrifice a modicum of back tightness to not permanently fall out with my elbow tendons.

[@limitisillusion7]

I only do high bar squats and the only thing grip matters for is to make sure Im in the middle of the bar. I don't see why squat grip is complicated.

[@LarsRyeJeppesen]

Why do they all keep the thumb over the bar, anybody knows? I've always gripped the bar fully

[@admiralnelson7338]

When low bar squatting it makes I easier to keep the wrists neutral

[@LarsRyeJeppesen]

@@admiralnelson7338 But doesn't that prevent you from creating tension in the core and lats? Cheers

[@naiustheyetti]

@@LarsRyeJeppesen you yourself tighten the core and the lateral muscles to stabilize your trunk, your arms work to keep the bar sitting on the back like shown in the elbow problem article. startingstrength.com/article/the-elbow-problem.

[@LarsRyeJeppesen]

@@naiustheyetti thanks, I trust Feigenbaum. Interesting.

[@rtm6930]

I would like to see a discussion between Rip 2012 kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWPXqoKCq6alrZIm34s and Rip 2018.

[@dave82au]

Can't believe I just saw a "V Shred" ad on a Starting Strength video. Google, your algorithms are fucked. 😂

[@jyoung7963]

Ah, the LP of neutral wrist when squatting.

[@jetjames420]

0:21 'ooo lemme get a look at this.. I'm sure she won't mind'

[@Mateo-et3wl]

anyone else completely ruin their shoulders and elbows (and biceps) doing these squats? i've tried many different techniques and can't avoid extreme joint pain from squatting.

[@charles8557]

Yes my elbows, forearms and biceps hurt like shit doing low bar. I figure because my wrists are bent too far back because my shoulders aren't mobile enough

[@aramgutierrez2119]

Charles same thing happened to me. I had a lot of wrist pain.” You gotta narrow in” Till one day I felt a sharp pain. I went a whole hand wider and now I am pain free and can squat comfortably. People are just built differently

[@CAP0VELLI]

It is a combination of two things. It is not just the shoulders, it is also the thoracic spine mobility. If your T Spine is tight it pulls everything forward, hence why you feel pressure in your shoulders. You are fighting against a postion which your body is not used to. You will find that if your widen your grip there is no pressure on the shoulders and wrists. As you begin to narrow your grip on the bar you feel pain again. Check your range with a wall angle with your back flat to the wall. Set hips to posterior pelvic tilt so you don't cheat the movement and arch your lower back. You should not be able to slide a hand in between your lower back and wall if u do it correctly. Replicate your arm position of which you use when squatting and see if you can keep your forearms and wrists complelty straight and then see if you can make your forearms touch the wall. I bet they point in a forward postion away from the walla around 30/45 degrees depending on your range of motion.

[@LL-ux9jz]

Woo hoo....I've been squatting wrong for like 10 months... Feels depressing as all shit to drop the weight and start again with just the bar. But it's better late then never, I'd rather do that than injure myself. And maybe I'll soon stop making a dick of myself at the gym. My naughty wrists though... Really like this trainer ☆☆☆

[@jonathanramsey1269]

If you were using poor form, are now using correct form, then I believe you should actually be able to lift MORE weight now… Believe it or not, good form will help you lift weight. Granted, you might need some practice to get your new form down. But this shouldn’t take too long, and you should be able to quickly surpass old numbers…. Make sure to read the Starting Strength blue book, it has what you need….

[@jd0879]

What I’ve come to learn and completely disagree with Rip on is having the grip that close. It gave me bicep tendonitis. Once I widened it (Index finger on ring of the bar) the pain went completely away and I can still keep my back tight

[@scottymcdonald5849]

I thought Rip always coached to keep the elbows up?

[@MohamedMohamed-ki4wk]

Always down

[@Terminxman]

I wish I could squat with Rip right behind me putting his hands on mine

[@klevdavful]

Ripetoe knows what he's doing I'm sure of it😏

[@TheMicheloSaverio]

Oh fuck that’s what I was doing wrong

[@horriefic]

Watching this video only know. Mark is a sifu.

[@limitisillusion7]

My pinkies go in the ring and I've never had an issue.

[@witheredserenity3183]

What about us inflexible pieces of shit that have to grip at the sleeves?

[@Timzhil]

Very strange. In earlier videos he says elbows up to build tension and support the bar, in this video he says elbows down... Very hard to follow advice this way.

[@johntrains1317]

"You keep it up with tight" Mark Rippetoe

[@clintkennedy8387]

I caught that too lol

[@janbangbigbang]

I tried this its horrible pain hahaha

[@smilsmff]

You are not pulling elbows down if you have larger traps/and or Lats, the Pain is unbearable, wake up feel the damage

[@smilsmff]

yeah, forget it unless you just squat only

[@Brandon-ob9rg]

How can something that feels so completely unnatural be correct?!?!?!

[@euhenyo.0164]

Teaching not for weightlifting