Flamewood Analysis - Ignite vs Hit, Pain Points & Thoughts | Path of Exile: Trial of the Ancestors

[@dreamcore_gg]

This video marks the end of my Flamewood build's journey! I'll be rerolling a new build shortly. How's your leaguestart going?

[@youmadme2549]

i played guardian SRS and got 2 voidstone today, but got bored now so i made marauder and will go rf, always steady and comfy build

[@tgdelux7641]

playing this and still alive and kicking an a hc private leauge enjoying the ignite

[@Dudeabides422]

I got up to alch and go t16 with a 5l sire on rejuv totems. Honestly better than I thought it would be I gotta say. I just swapped over at 93 to ignite because it's fun af with the new Expedition keystone and big chief pops. I'm really looking forward to PoB updates to really dig into it.

[@banishedbr]

i thought before league start your idea of ascendant with chief+hiero, or keep chieftain and try anihilating light and go dual holy flame totem with the flamewood supp. holyflame is projectile should be better to use with sire of shards too, enchant amulet with the nerfed" vengeant cascade for proj speed and make the proj go further and BEYOND. Ascendand having old chieftain might be better for hit variant.

[@Stealthdeath3]

Ive played chieftain rf and the flamewood with gmp and lmp for bosses

[@altromonte15]

The skill should be changed to trigger regularly even if it doesn't take damage so that it would still do something against enemies that don't hit, even if at a reduced DPS. it would make it much smoother.

[@TheControlBlue]

Terrible idea, that would kill the uniqueness of the skill.

[@CelphTitled7]

what would be the point of that support gem ? xD just play spell totem with storm rain then literally what you are asking for

[@TraxisOnTheLines]

If it was applied on taking damage it would work with dots, but it definitely can't just free cast.

[@pinedx]

I'm play this on sc. I got searing bond's hp up to near half of the warchiefs' by scaling its level with totem hp tattoos and + str tattoo, along with replica dragonfang. I have paired my flamewood with RF, it might be able to scale better than fire trap but I still have a lot of investing to do.

[@frankiecoss7141]

The reason why it checks for accuracy might be because the projectile used is most likely repurposed from the Blast Rain projectiles, which do check for accuracy.

[@luantib]

They could change the skill to "fires every X seconds reduced by Y seconds every time the totem gets hit" so its can be used without the chieftain taunt or against non hit enemies.

[@CelphTitled7]

chieftain is not required for flamewood totems to work...

[@CelphTitled7]

​@fedorsilva7687its not like we dont have any other taunt sources at all, like come on guys

[@solstardragon]

I knew I wasn't crazy about the Flamewood accuracy thing. I saw your league start and took my own spin on it. I'm in Trade so I got a Torchoak Step early on and it helped with early clear so much.

[@dreamcore_gg]

I had Torchoak Step, definitely helped out a ton on clear I agree, but doesn't solve the problems with some mobs/bosses just not engaging the totem

[@solstardragon]

@@dreamcore_gg Absolute true. I was sorta hoping that I could go Eye of Innocence to trigger Torchoak to kill those sorts of pesky enemies but that doesn't seem to work anymore. I agree with your proposed change where Flamewood works on any damage by enemies. It just feels like we don't have a totem that works well enough with it yet even if Vaal Ancestral does crazy nice burns. Waiting for Totem Health support gem and better options for Totem HP.

[@MrRinani]

​@@solstardragon Eye of Innocence still works, but it does need 100% ignite chance and obviously fire damage to actually trigger.

[@GobbleMoushe]

Perfect timing!

[@finalfragment8432]

what's going on? the frostbreath trauma support build you suggested us so strong you should try it

[@dreamcore_gg]

I don't have a frostbreath yet :) I plan to try it if/when I drop one 👍

[@juliangrabowsky6418]

Leaguestart going good. Corrupting cry is a lot of fun. with the "+10% warcry cooldown-recovery speed" and the fact that CC's Corrupted blood duration DOES stack with warcry buff duration; i was able to much quicker switch from "General's cry" to "Enduring cry". It is obviously somewhat slower; however, you have a constant heal every ~2 seconds and permanent endurance charge uptime. Currently trying to get my hand on: Dialla's to get 2 levels to CCry, "Unnatural instinct" (top left of scion start for AOE and phys dmg.) to after speck into a bit more Defences, and looking out for Raider ascendency on "F-Flesh'/'Flame" for Spell suppress, movement and perma Phasing. It does have pretty decent clear (imo. but then again I tend to play rather slow builds) especially with the 104 AOE.

[@dreamcore_gg]

Yeah corrupting cry is something I want to get around to trying, looks very fun indeed

[@Trypan]

I did searing exarch with ease. But eater was impossible. His tentacle auto attacks doesnt count as him attacking so a pure playthrough with only ignite flamewood ended up impossible, or very very very slow. Swapped over to fire res stacking chieftain next

[@Maedren]

can you automate the skilll? like self damage + totem mastery (5% of dmg from hits is taken from your nearest totem) maybe you can stack some totems this way.

[@jenshansenhavde]

I was thinking nimis, vaal reju totem, and just stack as much totem life as you can, on chieftain

[@vi8799]

how nimis interacts with it?

[@Torusya]

I knew there was something wrong with it... Accuracy check explains it, it was so frustrating watching spell rain down from the sky and do no damage, no mob interaction, nothing. Thank you!

[@Vulgaels]

To be honest i just wish this gem was on Hit.....so we can use it with self ignite (fits the chieftain so well) or even hiltless and stuff

[@blahblahgdp]

Excited for beta to be done so we can start the league!!

[@pixelj4877]

Thank you for your sacrifice as we looked on comfortably from our tried and true leaguestarters. You may now join us in the sun :p

[@Smite_Sion]

From the Torchoak Step wiki, you can use Eye of Innocence causing your totems to take 100 fire damage when they ignite an enemy causing Torchoak Step to trigger. Assuming this works the same for the support, might be a really good way at the cost of your amulet slot to have them consistent trigger. Edit: According to the wiki of flamewood this doesn't work :( But might still be nice to combine the boots and eye of innocence if you need some damage in fights where they don't hit your totems and you don't want to lose the 6-link On a further note, for taunt champion also works. The totems inherit the taunt power let them taunt enemies if they hit the enemy.

[@dreamcore_gg]

Yeah self damage doesn't proc flamewood unfortunately, not even from Hiltless which is considered to be reflected enemy damage

[@NeoZhinzo]

​@@dreamcore_gg I assume this would be because of the internal cooldown of the spell. It's not so much that it doesn't interact as that the "reflect" trigger happens to soon after the natural trigger.

[@dreamcore_gg]

@@NeoZhinzo Nothing to do with the cooldown - Hiltless self damage simply doesn't proc the support

[@manowartank8784]

Torchoak Step say "...when hit." while Flamewood say "...when hit by enemy." ... that's quite a big difference.

[@darcrov1746]

@@manowartank8784 and as they have calrified: You are not your own enemy.

[@5ean5ean22]

They need to make it proximity based and extra projectiles after it gets hit.

[@waterwii5775]

I’m playing a hit based version on scion. Chose champion/hierophant. The taunt from champ works and isn’t gated by the 2 second duration. Also the divergent flamewood provides covered in ash

[@suthtech]

I abandoned my Tawhoa slammer for now about 20 minutes after completing my first lab where I picked up Tawhoa. To make it feel remotely useable, I'll have to get some twink gear later on. Switching gears to a Mana/AoE stacking Heiro for Glacial Cascade. Pondering what route to take the defensives, and may end up going Plume of Pursuit. The interesting thing, though, is that Unleash can make you hit just about every burst for all recurrances even with low AoE scaling when clearing due to getting 4-5 nearly simultaneous knockbacks with each burst. . . I'm tempted to work with that. The alternative is acquire Fanatacism via Forbidden Jewels and roll with Pledge of Hands super speed quad casts for the massive aoe on the final cast. Then we'll look at if tacking on Plume/Marylene's is just stupid talk. I'm guessing Black Cane +Summon Phantasms will be a better route than Pledge of Hands, but we'll see.

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

What was wrong with Tawhoa? Why didn't you like it?

[@mattio79]

I think "by an enemy" needs to be removed so Torchoak Step reverse knockback ignite eye of innocence totem builds have an additional way to scale damage

[@Ozonehtv]

I think the same.. we need put it for ggg they must change the mechanic

[@TheGLaRL]

@dreamcore_gg do you think that vaal ancestral warchief totem with flamewood could pair well with righteous fire? on a chieftain as well?

[@dreamcore_gg]

There's potential there for use as a big ignite skill for bosses etc. but I think for RF, fire trap just going to be superior most of the time

[@Nicolas-tq8yz]

what about elevated decoy totem (lvl25) boots on a fire reap chieftain?

[@Kanoly]

I seen that you were on the ladder. I know what you mean when you stop trying as you feel you are done with a build, and die soon after. Trying viperstrike chieftain lol, been fun.

[@dreamcore_gg]

Viperstrike chieftain hmm, that does sound interesting! I do like how chieftain's new kit enables play on a lot of non-fire melee builds as it's much more generic

[@poboi858]

I have a devouring totem with plus 9 to gem level for general clear and then I have a plus 4 gem level vaal warchief for boss damage. Both have multiple projectiles on it, and it's going pretty well.

[@n8doggy733]

hey great vid, can Writhing Worms be taunted to attack? that could fix that problem if they can

[@dreamcore_gg]

I don't believe they can but I'd need to test it

[@asoibal]

I was hoping it would work with ancestral warchief melee ignite and the totem hit ignite. I ended up rerolling bonezone jugg

[@dreamcore_gg]

Good choice!

[@alcoor666]

Thanks for mention my loved Scion , but i sugest to take ascendancy saboteur instead of hierophant. Well i still mapping with flawood but it no so good for mapping, maibe as boss killer is better. Currently i use Torchoak Step Antique Greaves 1 large fire cluster and 2 mid cluster , 1 for totem and the other for take ignite prolif and chance to ignite. POB is not update so is not possible check

[@eddienash2095]

I was too ambitious and i rolled EK ignite Elementalist on SSF and I made it to yellow maps after 20 hours playtime but the progression slowed a lot there and i had to switch to trade because I couldn't get any of the item drops I need like Pyre, Gloomfang, Hrimsorrow, etc...I was literally the only dummy who tried to play EK ignite on SSF

[@Dizturb3dwun]

I was going to play impending Doom pathfinder. And then GGG broke spell Cascade. So I had to reroll to cold dot ele. Going to try to turn that into ignite knives later

[@taintacle7623]

How is the life on Earthbreaker? Conc path is a fire skill (not proj tho - can't have everything) that can let your totems *move*. Moving totems with a slam and a retaliation? Could be fun.

[@dreamcore_gg]

Earthbreaker totems share the same life scaling with spell totems etc. the lowest totem life scaling unfortunately

[@FishofMuu]

If you did it again, what skill would you use? Holy Flame is already projectile and fire, leaving room for another support. I was tempted to try myself

[@dreamcore_gg]

HFT is definitely a strong candidate, as it also has better life scaling than spell totem. I'd consider something like rolling magma totems too.

[@yammoto148]

From my understanding, Sion could probably use this gem a bit better than Chieftan right now. Since her taunt on totem lasts a bit longer and you can dip into one of her other half ascendancies for more damage. Its just going to feel pretty rough at the start because most of the starting nodes she has are bad for this build or well any build in general so she needs to path quite a bit before she starts popping off. But it should play a bit more smoothly later on, especially if you want more projectiles for the hit build.

[@loganharvey8086]

Out of curiosity did you try swapping what totem you support with flamewood? Maybe it is checking for accuracy because it is on a melee totem. Also since it shotguns did you test holy flame totem to see if the extra projectiles from HFT add to flamewood projectiles?

[@dreamcore_gg]

The accuracy check happens on a spell totem too, so it's a problem with the gem itself. HFT doesn't add projectiles to flamewood unfortunately

[@loganharvey8086]

@@dreamcore_gg unfortunate all around. Flamewood was the support I was most curious about. Thanks for giving it a thorough investigation

[@化粧惑星]

Great job and spirit to league start on new skill and sharing your thoughts. Vaal Warcheilf being a vaal skill, isn't it also a pain to have soul gain prevention and waiting for souls to gain? How did you solved it? One potential solution is to rework Flamewood/Avenging flame to be similar to CWDT.

[@dreamcore_gg]

The soul gain was actually much less of an issue(it was only a problem when a mob doesn't hit the vaal totem layed down and it times out, which happened sometimes on slow mobs or the ones I descirbed in the video) but since VAW has good uptime/low souls requires and stores 2 uses, it was mostly fine

[@mickeythomsen1001]

my league start went completely BS.. Started chieftain RF, its ok and easy to scale but this time round i found it very borring.. so started a necro planning to go mages, but ended up going animate weapon cold and its good at the league mech, but still not quite hitting the mark for me.. So tinkered with a bleed bow glad.. but then finally found my way to a lightning arrow deadeye MF all the way and thats where i am at now.. just hitting maps in about 10 minuts or so and then i will start the grind to get back on track..

[@derekrobbins6168]

I just retired my flamewood chieftan yesterday. I had went holy flame totem and was trying to douple dip on support gems and just use the Flamewood as some extra burst damage. It definitely 'works' but just seems strangely unsatisfying. Especially with this league mechanic--I think maybe taunt doesn't work? I decided to try the other rework now and am currently playing a dominating blow guardian and it seems pretty good. Actually just switched to using an Arakaali's Fang with dominating blow--a bit meme-y but it feels really fun flying through a map.

[@MrRinani]

The taunt works, but it feels unsatisfying because of the range. It's a relatively tiny area from my testing maybe 20-25 units. Where the decoy totem is somewhere above 45.

[@roberthenry5287]

Does vaal rejuvenatong totem count as it getting hit when it takes damage for us getting hit? That plus trauma on an attack skill would be interesting if it did.

[@dreamcore_gg]

Unfortunatly not, this works the same as the totem mastery, or any damage redirection mechanic - doesn't translate to a hit

[@roberthenry5287]

@@dreamcore_gg what about eye of innocence and a totem that ignites? Or "you ignite" means a totem igniting stuff doesn't suffer? And is there any unique out there that can make a totem take fake hits?

[@dreamcore_gg]

@@roberthenry5287 The only one that may have worked is Hiltless, which specifies that it is enemy damage on the item mod, but this has ben tested and it doesn't work

[@kingfisher1638]

Im trying out Energy blade, battlemage spellblade stat stacking inquisitor with CoC blazing salvo returning projectiles. Maxing out utility of new support gems. Massive 235% main hand damage added to spells with a big energy blade and giga shotgunning blazing salvo with returning proj.

[@kingfisher1638]

You can even turn it into a heatshiver build with two call of brotherhoods to push its DPS even higher. Blazing salvo with massive added lightning damage converted to cold and then multiplied by extra damage as fire.

[@pigpill]

Do you have a pob?

[@Leodigarius]

You know, you can guarantee the Flamewood proc with Eye of Innocence and Torchwood Cloak and using a mass ignite bow skill or spell.

[@dreamcore_gg]

It only procs on enemy hit, not self hit

[@kailanirhys6107]

Decoy totem elementalist ignite?

[@jomanyan7658]

I leagued started the same build, retired in act 4

[@samcheng6488]

If it can be triggered by taking any enemy damage. (or getting hit by anything) Then the Hiltless (Eye of Innocence) self-damage build might work. And then... Another Torchoak Step like fun builds come up. Which is what most players originally imagined the flamewood would be. I think this is GGG's design failure. All trigger depend on mobs with super rng. GGG design flamewood trigger neither by enemy nor by hit, but by both tags together (enemy + hit). GGG wants a design different from Torchoak Step, but without considering that there is no method that can constantly trigger it for now. Or GGG just wants to design a toy that is hard to use... Then forget what I said (🤣

[@dreamcore_gg]

Hiltless and EoI both don't work unfortunately

[@pridefulworm]

The taunt totem ascendancy needs to be better. Maybe if it made all your totems behave like a decoy totem in addition to what it does

[@vi8799]

but it`s already work like that

[@muhbroment]

Forbidden Rite Flamewood. If Forbidden Rite counts as a hit, the totem should proc Flamewood all on its own

[@vi8799]

no, only enemy hit counts, no exceptions here

[@taiwanisacountry]

I do think it could be cool in simulacrum if you are kinda immortal... But then again you would need a ton of damage and clear, ignite prolif could do that. But sometime they get the chance to avoid ailment... Hmmmm. I don't know man.

[@bekirkakasson163]

Just make it trigger the skill if there are enemies nearby

[@Cyclopsided]

volcanic fissure totems.

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

I think people are misunderstanding why Flamewood was made. Not everything they put out is meant to be a build all on its own. Void Sphere isn't for instance, despite that some tried to make it one. I think Flamewood was always meant to be a supplementary attack we put on totems we'd be using anyway. We know from PoE 2 that they don't like that players just spam one thing all game. They don't want to use cooldowns to force us to use more things, but they do want to encourage us to diversify our gameplay a bit.

[@dreamcore_gg]

I don't really see that anything is 'misunderstood' - you can try to play anything however you'd like, that's ultimately why we play poe. Whenever something new comes in, especially when it has mechanics that are not really pre-existing, it requires people to test it to throw things and see what sticks. I learned a lot with that playthrough, more than I did by just reading what the gem does

[@phoomisak-Ryo]

Rip totem...

[@AndiMacht-vz7hu]

Aa

[@jannol1269]

the best place for flamewood support is vendor

[@dreamcore_gg]

Classic

[@eshannumin]

It kinda irks me that POE devs put time into flamewood support. Every single thing about it is bad. Totems that have to be hit, big delay for damage, only works well with if having chieftain taunting. It feels like they added it as another dead support gem / noob trap and it sucks to see them put time into that.

[@namenlos4198]

Love the concept. Hate the execution

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

I think people are misunderstanding why Flamewood was made. Not everything they put out is meant to be a build all on its own. Void Sphere isn't for instance, despite that some tried to make it one. I think Flamewood was always meant to be a supplementary attack we put on totems we'd be using anyway. We know from PoE 2 that they don't like that players just spam one thing all game. They don't want to use cooldowns to force us to use more things, but they do want to encourage us to diversify our gameplay a bit.

[@eshannumin]

@@ArawnOfAnnwn That is fundamentally not how POE works. It is intentionally hard to the point you are expected to work and what doesn't. No one slaps a random support link on that they don't have to. If you're not new af to POE every gem socket is full and you wish you had more. It shows either a lack of understanding of the game from the devs, which I find hard to believe for obvious reasons, or with several dead / unused gems in the game they are still outting development time into more obviously bag gems. They who made the build gave a disclaimer because he knew it was just to see what it can do on the off chance he was mistaken.