Kansas vs North Carolina - By The Numbers

[@Flamuu]

A slightly different video this time, letting you guys make up your mind on which one you think is the better ship. Not much of a debate really if you ask me. Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu Insta: instagram.com/flamugram/ Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz Discord: discord.gg/Flamu

[@martynjones3978]

If they made these secondary build battleships i could understand some of the trade offs, but these just look awful!! This means more rear echelon camping battleships instead of mid range/pushing Battleships!! :(

[@robert_trumpeteer]

BOOOOOO

[@britishknightakaminininja1123]

Do you feel there is any case where the T8 is like one of those punishment ships that make you pay in advance for a better later upgrade? I mean, WG has a long history of each line having one or two ships that were a painful grind, truly horrendous, that people still went through in order to get to the later tech tree ships beyond it? Examples would be the original Pensacola, the Ognevoi, the Emerald, etc. Horrendous ships (at least when released) of their tier, massively inferior to what was already available at the tier, but something one would grind, (along with one's teeth), in order to unlock something worthwhile behind it? Is the Tier 10 worth it I guess is the ultimate question?

[@nikolaieh0624]

Migth be some flamu bias involved?

[@ichx8]

I agree that it tier 8 the NC clearly takes the upper hand but the Montana doesn't get that much better and is tier 10. What about a Vermont and Montana comparison?

[@ayylmao9697]

WG: have you ever seen a full line of Colorado's Playerbase: _no_ WG: *_would you like to_*

[@doktorhund6926]

but still colorado is better tier to tier then these ships. Ps: i accually would have liked better colorados you know punchy guns whit okay reload(not 40secs), fat with good topr protection(maybe even go over 50% i mean look at these thicc girls), Accually usefull armor, Awesome AA(the huge superstruckture has to be good for tsomething) and make them slow and turning like a beyblade because their so short (would be funnier to play).

[@juniorgalacto17]

@Nick Garner that's not what he said. He said tier to tier, meaning Colorado does better at it's tier than the new T10 does at T10.

[@gerfand]

@Nick Garner well, ofc, NC is a Fast Battleship...

[@KnodsilMemeMaker]

Playerbase: "NO!"

[@grimmshredsanguinus2915]

Laughed so much i made abs thanks

[@sagareaper3263]

I’m taking North Carolina, it’s out of the question for me. I can’t understand justifying a 40 second reload on guns that aren’t accurate, shells that are among the slowest, armor that won’t shatter moderate calibers of HE shells, and a hull that is too large and slow to avoid torpedoes.

[@davidandmartinealbon3155]

Dew It!! For the memes... And the "fun and engaging gameplay"

[@sagareaper3263]

After all, the spreadsheet says fun.

[@Matthew10950]

NC is my favorite bb at any tier. For some reason that ship and I just mesh.

[@heshworksbetter2777]

If you didn't have to suffer through the Colorado twice then I would say maybe, but as it stands that'll be a Hard No for me!

[@davidandmartinealbon3155]

@ANUBHAV SHARMA as well as hearing the sound of triple perma fires

[@Poctyk]

Fun fact. Due to improved heal, Kansas has less hp + heal then Colorado (assuming both have flags). Colorado: 125k Kansas: 123k. Which is just... bravo WG.

[@gabbens280]

Conkek with the correct skill choices and cpt can go over 300k :D

[@grimmshredsanguinus2915]

Doesnt matter average players will take SE for extra hp

[@Poctyk]

@@gabbens280 Sure but Conkek requires different line, not next BB from the same line

[@gabbens280]

@@Poctyk ok. I guess that would be relevant If you're already on Colorado and too lazy to get a floating barbecue stand.

[@Rokkator]

Shhh! Don't say that, WG will just nerf the Colorado to make her "better fit with the tier progression".

[@christophernguyen1904]

WG: ok so we'll nerf the North Carolina

[@maitreyasharma761]

@Nick Garner alabama is a much better ship if straight up gun power is what matters to you

[@liamfreeman1812]

maitreya sharma You don’t get Massachusetts for gun power and NC has better gun power than Alabama

[@mazda_rt24-p]

Pls no

[@SmokeJam]

@Nick Garner Thats exactly what they want from you. Making all Techtree ships more shitty so you throw money at their face. No thanks, they ain't seeing a buck from me anymore. Not worth supporting them more than by playing their game every now and then. Since the Puerto Rico disaster it gets worse with every ship they release, either completely broken or just a shitshow with special "gimmicks" you can exploit every 10th game or so if youre lucky.

[@SmokeJam]

@Nick Garner you lucky bastard :D I only got Tier 5 crap

[@DaManBearPig]

I didn’t think there could be a line more DOA than the UK heavy cruisers, but WG found a way! Gotta hand it to them.

[@Bud_Brigman]

Totally agree. On the plus side it's finally made call time and uninstall the game.

[@davidandmartinealbon3155]

DOA? Forgive my ignorance.

[@sagareaper3263]

Dead on Arrival.

[@thomas3tn83]

@@davidandmartinealbon3155 Dead On Arrival, because these things were already powercreep since their announcement

[@paccin339]

German dds? Or where they strong at some point in time?

[@seabass9916]

So in exchange for Def AA, and having an old school American diner for a bridge, you get tier 6 guns, worse hull, worse maneuverability, and worse concealment. Seems legit.

[@markneel3632]

Worse heal too

[@luuk341]

@ANUBHAV SHARMA technically it is the T7 guns from Colorado, but the performance on Kansas' guns is far worse than Colorado even as shown in the graph in the video

[@luuk341]

@ANUBHAV SHARMA you found the colorado to be worse in pen than kansas?

[@luuk341]

@ANUBHAV SHARMA up close the Kansas does pen better, like below 5km. Anywhere above that the Colorado pens better

[@luuk341]

@ANUBHAV SHARMA Well of you look at thr chart in the video you will see that that isnt the case

[@dextercochran4916]

So, the gimmeck of the new line is increased suffering for the player.

[@JKSSubstandard]

Best summary ive heard

[@TrangleC]

Wider ships should get a bonus on accuracy, because they are more stable firing platforms. I don't like it when games like this put the disadvantages of a certain trait (like being wider) in, but withhold the advantages. After all, someone designed the ship that way for a reason and the reason was certainly not that they just wanted to make it easier to hit. This reminds me of the Haenschel HS-129 in Warthunder, the famous "Duck". The thing flies supper sluggish and awkward in the game, which is accurate to the real thing, but the real thing flew shitty because it was heavily armored. It was kind of a flying tank. Yet, in the game you don't get the armor, you just get the shitty flight characteristics caused by the armor, but none of the protection from the armor. Strangely enough, with Russian technology it is the other way around. Russian fighter planes in WW2 had powerful guns, but those guns were very unreliable, the vibrations caused malfunctions, damaged the guns and the aircraft and the heat from the guns made the engines overheat. In the game though, you get all the fire power and none of the issues.

[@jotafonso3310]

You saying ShitVaks are good? lmao nice meme

[@TrangleC]

@@jotafonso3310 They definitely were back when I played the game, in the patch 1.3 to 1.4 days. When you heard the "dingeling" ringing sound of a Russian 20 or 23mm gun, you were toast. German guns only produced sparks and barely did any damage, in comparison.

[@TrangleC]

@@the_dented_NPC I'm not saying the game is super realistic, but other things in the game are justified and explained with realistic traits too.

[@MetalMachine131]

Yeah its the same thing with World of Tanks. You have the giant german tanks with excellent ground clearance but that just makes them easy taegets. The flat russian pancakes that should all get stuck on a little branch drive around even faster....

[@yamatoseb]

On a battleship hull, stability wouldn't matter much, at least compared to a NC. Heck, if we go for it, I'd even say NC would be more stable than the Kansas because it seems to have less weight up there (one less superimposed 406mm turret is 121 less tons way above the waterline), thanks to a lighter structure and less guns. In any way, in the flat seas of world of warships, there are no difference in stability between any battleships out there. A NC fires 11 tons in a full salvo, that's like, less than 1/3000 of its mass. It wouldn't even give it any degree of tilt when firing.

[@garrettledford1147]

Kansas advantages: - More alpha - More shell volume (per salvo) - Better AA (with dfaa) - Better citadel protection - Better health pool - Better torpedo protection - Better AP shell velocity Kansas disadvantages: - Worse dpm - Worse armor - Worse heal - Slower (by 4 kts) - Significantly worse accuracy (by .5 sigma) - Worse shell damage (individual) - Worse penetration - Worse angling ability - More freeboard - Worse detection - Worse rudder shift Who thought this was a good idea? Even ignoring the individual weight of each point the Kansas has more disadvantages than not, and when you consider how much some of those points matter for performance and the fact that they all fall on the disadvantages side (speed, accuracy, dpm, tankability, etc.), it's just hard to believe that someone looked at this and gave it the ok. Edit: I'm aware that the "advantages" aren't really advantages, what I'm pointing out here is that even including "advantages" that are irrelevant, NC *STILL* has more advantages by numbers alone.

[@kaerukai1691]

Forgot to add 'slightly' in front of the 'better', mate.

[@belgarath6508]

@ANUBHAV SHARMA Because you turn so fast when yo slow down to 16 knots by looking at the rudder

[@Snagabott]

The main problem is that all of the "worse" categories are real, while all the "better" categories come with huge asterisks. These ships aren't trade offs, they are _false_ trade offs. -More alpha... but not really, since they lack the penetration to do that damage. -More shell volume... but not really, since the actual number of shells that go where you actually want them are lower. -Better AA (with dfaa)... but _only_ with DFAA, otherwise worse. -Better citadel protection... but not really, since your bow is so steep that you can get citadelled from the front more easily and since you lean when you turn. -Better health pool... but not really when you include heals. -Better torpedo protection... OK, this one may a be real(!) advantage. -Better AP shell velocity... but at most ranges it's not humanly possible to notice and at extreme range NC is slightly better. (This, btw, is where NC was already _the_ worst battleship in the game) -Better turning circle... but when you factor in rudder shift, base speed and velocity bleed, you still take longer to turn around.

[@montagistkacke7431]

First point is not quite right. Kansas has lower alpha damage per shell at 11.8k, NorCa has 13.1k. Even Colorado with 12.4k is better at that point. Edit: Nvm, I see you already mentioned that in "disadvantages". But if by "more Alpha" you mean "bigger Alpha-Strike", its basically the same as "more shell volume (per salvo)".

[@KaguyasBeat]

Description update: This video is intended to make you choose NC lul I mean honestly Pretty much everything about the Kansas is slow. Unless it comes to being sunk. That might be the only fast experience with her.

[@Mario-kf3ej]

even that may not come fast since you won't make it to frontline in time , trust me all your DDs will be dead by time you get into gunrange :D

[@charleslarrivee2908]

I hope you do something similar to this comparison for Vermont vs Montana.

[@Poctyk]

Vermont brings at least something to the table 12 457mm guns with better sigma then Montana and better plating. There is a clear trade off there. T8/9? You pay with your stats to get... what exactly?

[@tiaandeswardt7741]

@@Poctyk DFAA and one extra turret.

[@theheavytonk928]

I think Montana is way better. Again, the stats doesn’t fully describe a particular ship. And also, good ships don’t always win you know? Kremlin doesn’t always win against Bourogogne, and so does Yamato against Montana.

[@guvyygvuhh298]

@@theheavytonk928 the thing is, Yamato can park nose in at 20km and yeet a Montana tru the nose This is at long range At short range Montana has the speed and alpha to get closer and blap the Yamato

[@SpaniardNL]

NC > all the new US BB's, without question.

[@brilliantlysplendid]

At least the Vermont still has 12 Georgia guns..... right? ... *gets nerfed three days before release*

[@raoulz9619]

@@brilliantlysplendid nerfef??? When?

[@battleship6049]

I don't know man. Vermont looks spicy.

[@Axel23410]

Vermont looks broken: 51mm deck armor , 38mm side plating, 2.1 fucking sigma and the heaviest broadside in the game by a very long shot.

[@battleship6049]

@@Axel23410 1.95 sigma. Eitherway she's more accurate than Montana with 12 457mm guns that fire the heaviest shell. Not counting Shikishima

[@Huntersinthesky]

I really want to like the new BBs because they just look so meaty and intimidating, but they just don't have what they need to make them competitive. I think these will get a buff of some sort in the future (I hope).

[@fedupgamer9075]

These new BBs were put out there as canon fodder for the new Russian cruisers and the FDR to farm. After buffing a turd, it is still a turd.

[@bohba13]

@@fedupgamer9075 keep the bow/stern at 32, but buff everything else to 38, give it ~2.0 sigma, boom, done.

[@Vangheist]

I can only hope they get changed to be more enjoyable and useful, or that there is some change in gameplay coming to make a niche for them, but given all the information we have about how they were changed over the course of their stay on the test server I have to doubt changes will come quickly, or at all.

[@darthrambo1878]

they will not buff new ships in the first 3-6 month - so you have to wait till 2021 I think. They tested and check this line and say: They ok and good to play.

[@Gopichant]

Outfitted with the Golden Eagle-camo this is gonna be the prettiest port queen you have ever seen.

[@TheHeliommm]

What was the point of this line? again: why couldnt we get a Georgia-esque split or light armor secondary heavy caliber bois instead of this crap??

[@philstaples8122]

The point is to make people grind more ships, some will free xp the line so basically spend money and WG love the money ;)

[@Axel23410]

Because Georgia is an overpowered clusterfuck of gimmicks stolen from other nations. Making an entire split out of it is a shitty idea

[@calebshonk5838]

Maybe because they felt the game needed some cannon fodder for all the Russian HE-spammers? Only explanation I can think of.

[@smooticus1691]

I think a buff to secondaries (probably a plating buff as well) to Kansas would be nice, with its citadel armor it could be justified in a close-quarters role. a role this game needs more of.

[@zeti4102]

theres a alternative line made of massachusetts - georgia - ohio and you only need to pay for it :D

[@lennyvega7076]

Still weird for me... There are so many people skipping Colorado and New Mexico because theyr unfun and sheit. Now there is a full T10 split? There was a chance to do American Secondary Ships! A Chance for Washington! One of the last BBs that went into a real 8km brawl! But no... We get DMG Piniatas... So sad...

[@crazycar4015]

I really wish they had buffed the secondaries and made the ships slightly more resistant to HE spam too. These would have been hilarious brawlers for sure. And would be a desperately needed class in a game where the current playerbase is more content sitting next to each other behind the same island and sniping the entire game instead of pushing and capturing objectives. The Italian BBs are my last hope that they will release a BB line this year that actually focuses on dealing with HE spammers and pushing objectives and winning games. I wonder though, I think WG said that part of the new captain rework is that most silver BBs will get a slight secondary buff. I wonder if that buff might make the thicc USN BBs any better at pushing.

[@Panocek]

Massachusetts, Georgia and Ohio would make mighty fine silver branch... but alas they become premium branch of fast healing secondary brawlers.

[@pauldrive7243]

The Kansas is just a Overbloated Damage Pinata for every enemy to farm the hell out of....

[@randomrandomnesss2188]

These ships were doomed the second they weren’t Russian. R.I.P

[@winniolanimus138]

I actually liked my colorado back in the day. Just seems like US BB line except the obvious exception got powercrept. But instead of solving the issues WG just decide to bring out ships that are either so shitty or so op that you wonder if they all Just played as Eddie as a child in tekken or if they just never played a video game in the first place.

[@Zeugenschutz]

The Colo teaches you positioning and Angling. It has its niche, sometimes its nice to just crawl along trying to blap people

[@Strangelove657]

40 second reload. Nope, NC every time.

[@laszlokaestner5766]

Well at least it allows you the time to relocate with that crap top speed before the guns are ready to go again!

[@cleveland2286]

@@laszlokaestner5766 you can play some AL or read the newspaper while you wait to catch up to your team

[@comradeboutchnasty2142]

These ships serve absolutely no purpose.

[@KondorDCS]

Actually, they do. They amuse ex WoW players like me to no end.

[@grimmshredsanguinus2915]

well grind grind grind doubloons doubloons doubloons nothing new

[@guvyygvuhh298]

Well they have 2 proposes: -Cannon fodder for all HE spammers, free food for Smolensk, Colbert, even for trash like Atlanta -they make you laugh. Theh are so bad and ineffective even if u give them full broadside and expect to get blaped, u get 2 bounces and 1 shatter (especially true for Kancers)

[@imglidinhere]

This is why I love your content, Flamu. You are brutally honest when things are going good or going bad with the state of the game. You've pointed out things you really like, even are hopeful and optimistic about the future, if cautious, and I'm hoping that WG listens to you and all the others about this ship line being unfun to play. Underpowered compared to everything else at the same tier, I can only imagine how OP the tier 10 will have to be amazing to warrant the grind with these ships. So in short, thank you again sir. :D

[@alexandrpavlov9808]

"Ultilimately" awesome comparison!

[@enochevans4386]

When Flolo pronounces "Kansas" it sounds like he's saying "Cancerous". Very apt considering the abysmal ship.

[@stephen1r2]

If the guns were the _same_ in all respects as the Colorado's except for reload, this would almost be fine. Not great mind you, but mostly OK. Right now this is a free port slot.

[@tanker6473]

If you called this thing something Russian, it would be buffed to a 2.5 sigma, 95K health and a 10 second reload with a 40 knot speed

[@grimmshredsanguinus2915]

Yeah indeed But No consumables

[@ottok2969]

Bit too OP maybe nerf the AA🤔

[@aaasssaaaxj]

@@ottok2969 True~

[@dasbubba841]

Should rename it to the Kansanov so it'll get buffed because of "sekret documents"

[@jozseftoth9368]

Wow this must be something new i never heard before! This russian OP shitting thing, just WOW so original and completely new, give him all the likes in the world!

[@StalowyZolw]

Honestly, You could have just stopped right after the guns. Main batery is THE purpose of the battleship, and with guns so shit Kansas has no purpose at all.

[@Rose.Of.Hizaki]

Carry on my wayward son, For there'll be peace when you are done

[@Mario-kf3ej]

I agree with everything I still want Vermont even just for 4x3 457mm alpha , even if it got nothing else going for it. Still must blap Cruisers well , who make mistake ... or don't make them since overmatch :). Not gonna be best BB , heck not even average for T10 standards , but unique with gimmick yeah

[@j.d.vandoorn2101]

This makes it really easy if you haven't done the main US BB line yet

[@grimmshredsanguinus2915]

T8 colorado t9 colorado T10 colorado with 457mm

[@OberstStein]

Kansas. Best possible pick. ;-)

[@thiagosantiago1704]

13:56 you heard the man kids, go kansas, i'm gonna be happily watching over you, with my thunderer on the other side (Team). :D

[@FJFuentesCO]

Just unlocked it, can’t wait for the line to be active...so I can sell it.

[@sirtogii5216]

Ditto

[@02091992able]

The new BBs are basically catering to the stay at the back of the map and snipe type of players. They don't get involved and are completely useless unless someone is alive to spot the targets for them. Allot of things need to be change so they can be a viable choice for players that don't do the sit back and snipe bb player. A buff to its speed and a lowering of the reload to 35 seconds instead of 40 seconds would make them just a little better. They are treating that they have 12 guns like they have to reload a heavier shell which really they should be the same guns as the North Carolina and Iowa have in terms of guns and shells. Making them slow as hell and a reload as long as hell is not balance its just making the ship line irrelevant right from the start.

[@NormusDiabolus]

How do you want to snipe with these sigma values?

[@02091992able]

@@NormusDiabolus What wargaming plans for them. That is why they are slow and have longer maximum range than most US BBs currently in the game.

[@NormusDiabolus]

@@02091992able The NC has nearly 600m more range then the Kansas, the Iowa has 50 Meters on the Minnesota (so nearly the same). Only the current Version of the Vermont ( which hasnt been released yet) has around 900 Meters more range then the Montana (and only .05 better Sigma). So compared to the tech tree ships.. not realy.

[@KN11F3D]

The only way I'd be getting this one is through the challenges, regardless of the fact that there's barely anything redeemable here. I'd rather go through VIII-X once just so that it acts as an easy reset for the Research Bureau when I get the chance. The North Carolina seems like the no brainer here.

[@Chuuuulet]

It's actually amazing how often you say "significant"... you could almost make a drinking game out of it

[@Troubleshooter11]

Waiting for the day he says "significant sigma"

[@exzession4919]

Important: On the "classic" American BBs (NC, Iowa, Monty) you don't need Superintendent, you can skill Basics of Survialbility instead.

[@RowanHD15]

Its almost like they are trolling the player base for calling them out for Russian Bias as the only reason to get the tier 10 on this line is Supercontainers you get on Anniversary and Snowflakes at Xmas.

[@YC-ls4yx]

I got citadeled in the Kansas more than I got in the T7 Pensacola. Kansas has abysmal firing angles on top of an already angled hull, which makes you the GK of US battleships.

[@thomasbernecky2078]

another USS Mobility Scooter, great. Thanks, Flamu saved me grinding these losers.

[@Johnson217]

I think it's funny that the Kansas and the Minnesota use the wrong guns...they should use 16"/50 caliber Mark 2 guns, which would give them a hugely better penetration. Obviously not as good as the later super heavy rounds as far as damage, but they should be pretty close in hitting power.

[@valgaror9985]

WG: "Our graphic designers have once again done an excellent job with the new American battleships. Let's our balance team fuck it up."

[@427Arbok]

It should say something that I absolutely adore the New Mexico, yet this line makes me shrivel my nose in disgust.

[@Slayer_Jesse]

geez, even if i get this thing for free i dont think ill play it. I was excited when they announced the line split, but everything after that has just been worse and worse news.

[@thomasbernecky2078]

Very informative for me, thanks Flamu.

[@jasonoshea7947]

Would love to see a Iowa vs Minnesota comparison Flamu with a eventual Montana vs Vermont .

[@miguelcc2109]

I asked WG to change my Kansas for a Furby.

[@kenduncan3221]

All I can say is. "Dorthy(WG), I wont be playing Kansas at all!"

[@buzzpedrotti5401]

In the night action of the Battle of Savo Island, the USS Washington, sister ship of the North Carolina with gunnery master Ping Lee as Admiral placed 9 broadsides into the IJN battlecruiser Kirishima's broadside averaging a 15 second reload time. Nearly 72 16 /55 hits at 7000 yards in 3 minutes... must have been awesome.

[@joedoe6444]

i really wish WoWs would add the comparison chart to this game from over on WoT. it lets you do side by side comparisons of up to 8 tanks and you get to mess with skills and modules and upgrades to see what works best for you before you commit to a certain build type.

[@masterbuilder0601]

You're looking at it all wrong! The devs took the careful time to bake-in the powercreep, so that the ship feels just like her American tech tree counterparts!

[@colinkennedy1718]

Here, lets give you a large amount of guns. In exchange we'll make you slow and a huge target. Oh but actually the guns have horrible reload, are actually the guns from the ship below you. And you have a worse heal. Honestly if they had just copied NC's guns, gave it the normal USN BB heal, gave it better sigma, kept the maneuverability and concealment downsides, then it MIGHT have been an attractive option. The fact that these ships trade SO much for alpha that isn't even THAT much higher is absurd.

[@andreiandy3922]

The only reason for grinding this line is the Vermont. Then again I would rather have a Montana for the extra maneuvrability and reload speed. NC and Iowa are hands down the better choice, there is a reason why the US Navy moved away from the super-dreadnought design irl.

[@lequick0316]

i was so excited when i got the new T9 BB. took it out and omg sold it straight away. 22 knot top speed. its armor did ok and guns are amazing. but speed is key in this game. being stuck in one spot all game just doesnt work. i know most BB players in pub matches sit behind islands all game but i dont. wont be used in CW, nor ranked. completely useless line

[@lequick0316]

in saying that if had 35 second reload the DPM might change my mind or a speed boost. right now these ships are not ready for release

[@paulnmarshall7504]

I feel like if they gave the Kansas’s armor an angular resistance buff against AP shells (like making the auto bounce angles larger), 1.7 sigma, and the regular American bb heal, I can consider grinding out this line. But these new American bbs are slow and won’t be that significant in games without a cv.

[@neko8082]

Awesome comparison, very well done Thumbs Up! I can't help to think that WarGaming is a little Bias on other warships then Russian warships.

[@Dcarp7]

They always have been.

[@T.K.9]

Playing the 2nd line of Big Slow Battleships is like marrying someone. You get all the 3 rings. Engagement ring. Wedding Ring. And SUFFERING

[@0nkelD0kt0r]

I am excited that this new line will finally allow me to grind the french cruisers by being so unappealing that I don't want to play them at all. A shame really, because I kinda liked the idea of a very slow BB line because it was something different.

[@marvelous5038]

Does wargaming ever listen to the feedback we give them I mean WE DON’T WANT THESE KIND OF SHIPS

[@mazda_rt24-p]

No they don't at all

[@masterbuilder0601]

They're currently in-house testing soviet carriers. This is their distraction while they finalize that bs.

[@CuriosityByNature]

thank you for the review - you very delicately gave us to understand that the ship is a piece of sh%t and thus saved our time :)

[@buzzpedrotti5401]

Historically if this ship was produced it would have been in the late 1920s, placing it in the Nelson, Colorado, Prince of Wales, Nagato & Scharnhorst period. Probably one Tier lower than North Carolina, South Dakota, Yamato and Bismarck...The guns would match or exceed Colorado in all respects. With the evolution of imagined types it is not clear if this matters to players.

[@davidrobinson4553]

Pressure from Weasley Gee Flamu? Just asking as I don't follow the other CC's anymore due to BS 💩💩 reviews, this review mode is spot on and gives anyone a fair and informed chance to make up their own minds, Great Content as usual 👍👍

[@subhanahmed2531]

All im getting from this entire line is that t8 and 9 r XP pinatas and the T10 may be decent, but its just a floating gun battery. The vermont may hit hard, but i doubt it hits alot or often... so thats a no for me.

[@liutian3]

A better comparison would be against Amagi, a very balanced T8 BB with 10 barrel shot guns that is also covered fully in 32mm. Kansas has 2 more guns but has to trade that for 20% less dpm, 0.3 less sigma, 5 knots speed, 5000 HP, worse penetration and shell flight speed. The only other advantage Kansas has is AA. But is it really worth that many inferiorities?

[@smooticus1691]

Long range BBs are bad for the game, so its probably best that these ships are lackluster. Maybe WG knows this and this is all intentional? At least they will be available to anyone wanting a challenge for a research bureau run

[@Poctyk]

Oh yeah, NC/Iowa also have longer ranges, then Kansas/Minnesota because... why not?

[@Shadx27]

After the South Dakota class (1920) was cancelled by the Washington Naval Treaty, there was a reason the US did not return to the designs in the 1930's. Ouch.

[@zachary_maskell]

It’s the line that nobody wanted but we all got anyways. I am completely disinterested. They’re not even historical too other than Kansas (No, Minnesota and Vermont are not Tillman battleships, I have extensively looked into this and can confirm that they resemble nothing that Senator Tillman came up with). It’s also a sniper line so it promotes a passive back-line camper playstyle which is not good for the game by any means. There are so many things wrong with these things. I’m sure if they made a US brawler BB line similar to the premium US brawler BB line we have right now (Massachusetts, Georgia, Ohio) it would have been far more successful.

[@zachary_maskell]

@@Sombody123 You fail to remember Minnesota's 1.8 sigma and Vermont's 1.95 sigma. Also the sheer number of guns helps compensate for any inaccuracy down range as well.

[@spartanalex9006]

So basically this is the timeline where the US didn't go with Fast battleships after the construction holiday and instead build super standards. Neet.

[@SinkkingTurrtle]

Honestly though the minnesota looks okay, if not quite decent. the vermont actually looks pretty good with that deck armor, sigma and gun calibre. Meanwhile this thing almost looks like a t7 ship.

[@MrZemIan]

It's weird, at what point did they actually think it was a good idea to make the ship worse in basically every way except AA and alfa strike potential? Alfa strike rarely matters, especially since in reality the lower alfa of the NC will most likely be higher every volley due to the way better accuracy. The exception being CQB. And it's doubtful you'll even live long enough to get that close in a Kansas, comparably the NC can often get into situations like that due to its speed and concealment. Yeah...I dunno. Should be back to the drawingboard with at least this ship from the new line. Had they att last made the volleys pretty reliable like the NC I may get the penalty in many other regards for the Kansas. Now instead the advantage the Kansas is supposed to have is so non existant that in reality it's just another disadvantage even. Quite an achievement to design and balance the Kansas this poorly. I usually don't like to bash WG but in this case they really deserve it. This is bad. Really bad. I mean sure, every line has its lemons, NC is a strong T8 BB on top of that. Sometimes new ships simply cannot push the boundaries further. So it's good they didn't powercreep anyone with this ship, that you must give them. But at what cost? 🤔

[@johnscarborough4746]

Why, just why? This thing is a sitting duck.

[@Caelum_NLD]

I've already been down the NC line up to Montana (and liked it very much), so now it's time for the Kansas line. Yeah, the NC line is prolly stronger, but even though an electric egg cooker works way better, you can with a bit of luck and timing still get that perfect egg with just a camping gas burner, a pan and some water. I'll see how many times Kansas will net me that perfect egg. Though I hope not that much, so WG will up Kansas' equipment.

[@dimitrisoikonomou3568]

I am more iterested on the Montana vs Vermont comparison, 3x3 456mm guns sounds terrifying even for a thick boi (add in the fact that it has impresive armor, but still 40 seconds of reload and 22knots of speed are such important downsides that it wont matter)

[@Straswa]

Nice vid, I was planning on getting the Kansas someday, still on New York. This review is giving me second thoughts. Still excited to get the New Mexico soon.

[@KPen3750]

I notice the guns are 16 inch/45 caliber, where the actual South Dakota’s Of the 1920s (Of which the Kansas is a part of) Had a 16 inch 50 caliber guns. Essentially a heavier gun of the same dimensions of the Iowa’s guns. I feel they should have given it the Colorado’s AP performance to make it decent

[@Warhamsterxxx]

I citadelled a bow-in Kansas with a Baltimore. I'm not sure how it happened but it did happen. Might have been the smoke stack citadel thing. But still weird as shit.

[@zomgneedaname]

Nobody: Absolutely Nobody: WG: Hey guys what would happen to the Meta if we put the South Carolina into T8-10 games????

[@MadmanLink]

This was a great video. I find this ship almost impossible to be effective. Guns are so bad, can't hit anything at long range. I was 10km from a Vladstock and it just wreaked me. Best I could do was 2-4k damage, while he did much more every salvo. This ship is more frustrating then playing the Colorado. WG pick the a ship people didn't like and made it worse. I got this ship from the event and this will be the last I play it until they buff it.

[@ineverexist666]

Adding a new line which is Powercrept by the old line in the instant it was developed. Is this called reverse Powercreep?

[@Artem_Shepelev]

It is worth to compare Kansas to Amagi. Amagi has ~89% of Kansas' alpha strike damage while reloading 30 seconds, having better pen and ballistics, better dispersion and 1.8 sigma, being much faster and also having hard to hit citadel, better torpedo protection and similar HP pool.

[@jwstrock22]

I have been having some really good games in North Carolina lately. I take your advice and try to set up central positions, and then farm all the people trying to lemming to the flank. I don't think I will even bother with Kansas or the rest of the new US bbs.

[@steweygrrr]

Aaaand this is why putting a ship designed with early 1920s tech at such a high tier is as bad as including ships using tech from the mid 50s (surprisingly not just Soviet BBs, France is guilty of that too) at all. Correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't the guns the original 16" ones designed for the Iowas but didn't fit in the turrets? If so I don't understand why they don't get the super heavy AP. Either way I don't see the point of 1.5 sigma guns on such a slow platform because that implies brawling rather than long range shooting but everything else says keep at mid range and use your armour to annoy people.

[@rjeffm1]

The only reason to take this would be that there is a reward in higher tiers. Of course that appears to be not the case.

[@crazycar4015]

Only reason I am going to be doing this godforsaken line is so that I can reset the split once I finish the American fast BBs. I am sure once I understand the niche this ship fits into that I can get it to work, but it surely won't be pleasant, and I doubt we will be seeing cool replays featuring this line anytime soon.

[@jasonshen7600]

Enemy Island spotted on the Horizon! Concentrate fire on the enemy Island!

[@100krakens2]

Guys, what does Flolo say at around 12:05-"A big clumsy ship" or "A big clumsy shit"? After watching the whole review, I vote for the second option :)

[@PitchBlackYeti]

Kansas seems to be designed as bad as possible on purpose, an artificial roadblock to spend FXP on, only to get to Minnesota, another potential FXP roadblock on the road to Vermont, the only ship with actual potential.

[@isaiaharmstrong1478]

Please do another video like this for the Vermont and monti

[@andrewduan5123]

I’m not sure how o feel about this line. On one hand I’m glad that with the RN and now this line, new lines are coming out and completely marking older lines obsolete, like some other lines that have come to the game. But on the other hand these ships will be DOA probably. Someone will like it, after all people still play Goliath.

[@Snagabott]

You should compare Kansas to the Colorado instead. I think it can be argued that Colorado - certainly not a fan favorite - is a better ship. Clear Advantages Kansas: 32mm all over is bad, but 26mm is worse. Kansas gets 13 km concealment vs 14.6 km. Kansas has better AA. You also have 23 kts rather than 21 kts, which equates to ships of 30 kts closing in to finish you off at only 7 kts rather than 9, so it's more of an advantage than it sounds. Slight Advantages Kansas: Better alpha, better range, better torpedo prot. Slight Advantages Colorado: Better reload, better health: 125k vs 123k when heals are included - although that may be a greater advantage (dots tick for less) or lesser (you go down sooner to concentrated fire and some damage can't be healed more than 10%) Clear Advantages Colorado: Smaller target and better turning. Guns. Wait, what... Guns? Yes. Even though these guns are supposed to be the same, for some reason Kansas has slightly weaker shells with slightly less penetration. tbh; I don't think either of these differences are enough to make a difference but they're there. Now; Kansas has 12 guns, giving it more alpha. The devs seem to care greatly about alpha, seemingly thinking it as important in WoWS as in WoT, and will nerf everything else about a ship into the ground to compensate for it (or give huge buffs to compensate the other way; ref. Georgia). In this game, however, only the first shots are pre-loaded, otherwise you will be trading based on DPM, not salvo-for-salvo. With a battleship, you should be aiming to let your guns sing as much as possible, so the better the player, the less of an advantage alpha brings. Sure, a heavier broadside lets you punish mistakes more severely _if your guns are ready,_ but your reload gets you ready in time to punish that mistake begin with. The metric that combines these two competing considerations is DPM: in our case that works out to 212400 vs 198400. So that's still a win for Kansas, right? No, not when you include sigma: Kansas has a 1.5 compared to 2.0 for the Colorado. This means that if you are expecting to score 32% of your shells on target with a Colorado, you will hit only 24,7% with a Kansas*. In other words, the _real_ DPM values should probably be counted as something akin to 52463 vs 63488. This is almost a 20% advantage to the Colorado, provided you are accurate to take advantage of it. This is why I believe that the only things that set Kansas over the Colorado except for its speed and AA is the things that are specific to being a tier higher: 32mm minimum plating and the concealment upgrade. Colorado has some very real advantages over the Kansas that would probably make it the better ship if they were taken as is and treated as equal tier. ---- *(Sigma is a kinda backwards value - it is the answer to the question "at how many standard deviations away from the center of my 2d Gaussian distribution will the dispersion ellipse be placed?". Since their ellipses does not differ from each other at any range (they both have USN BB standard curve), sigma forces the distribution to change instead - the formula says that the proportion of shells falling inside the ellipse of value σ is 1-e^(0.5*σ^2). Everything that falls outside the ellipse of the specified sigma value will be re-rolled (although possibly not indefinitely, hence the very occasional shell that flies off completely on its own). Without this re-rolling, the Colorado (32%) value would be 27.7% and the Kansas value (24.7%) would be 16.7%. The value I used here corresponds to an ellipse defined from 80.5m out of a 200m maximum dispersion.)

[@artlew6547]

Im not sure if buff to 30 sec reload will be enough to balance this ship

[@clemens1902]

Can you make another by the numbers about A. Newski and petro

[@samuelwong4152]

At first I was intrigued by Kansas' 12 guns, I always believed in extra guns. But the top speed was rubbish "Collorado" speed. And the max firing range is lower. I chose to unlocked N.Carolina and I have never regret it. Firing range maxxed 27km, damn is a tier 8 "Conqueror" and its amazing. Both rudder shift time and concealment, N.Carolina WINS hands down !!

[@kurumi394]

Mom can we get 16 inch guns? We have 16 inch guns at home *_16 inch guns at home:_*

[@auxityne]

Well, I can use the credits I get from selling my free Kansas to buy a Vladivostok. Or a Benson. Or literally anything else in the game. Ever. Seriously. Even Khaba.

[@CacneaMain]

Even a german DD? lul

[@kale27]

Is it possible that this new line was designed with the upcoming Commander re-work in mind? Maybe I'm just being optimistic.

[@bhutchisonbh]

Excellent summary Flamu! One question, why on earth would WG release this line in this condition? Pointless!

[@Panocek]

To keep players busy, so they run out of hours in the day to play (and pay for) something else

[@bhutchisonbh]

@@Panocek I'm not questioning a new line, I'm questioning a line thats completely pointless

[@Tubehauge]

spicy stream today, that why the stream is not uploaded to twitch?

[@chuckles9702]

British heavy cruisers were the worst addition of stuff no one plays; but they've outdone themselves now. The new BBs are garbage. You can't have crap speed, crap armor, and crap guns. It's a worse experience in every metric.

[@quantumshark_5350]

Lyon has the same sigma (1.5) as Kansas, better alpha (Lyon has 152k AP 75.2k HE, Kansas has 14.6k AP 68,4k HE), 10s better reload, 4kts faster and has better armour (180mm icebreaker and upper hull) a tier lower.