Flat or Clipless for INDOOR riding? | Zwift race tested

[@mrpokeit]

As a 49 year old who has recently started taking his health and fitness a bit more seriously I love this channel. Thanks Mark for the inspiration, information, honesty and laugh out loud moments.

[@roilev]

MTB amateur racer here. I did start racing in flat shoes, and when I moved to clipped in, I did not find much difference. But then I read that being clipped in produces bad habits to pull the bike towards you, instead of real bunny hopping (that you can do with flat shoes), I decided to put flat pedals for the winter. And yes, I almost crashed a couple of times, trying to pull the bike with me. The main benefit of the flat pedals is going through rough stuff, where you can dab. You can also dab with clipless shoes, no problem. The problem is clipping back in when the terrain is steep and rough - more often than not I descended unclipped, just resting my foot on the clipless pedal. No such issues with flat pedals. My main point is that there isn't (and shouldn't) be any pulling of the pedals unless sprinting or being in a wrong high gear. And you can push and pull on the top/bottom of the pedal stroke with flat pedals, the pins grip so tightly that it is very hard for the 5.10s to slip from the pedal (if it has metal pins sticking out). So maybe it is all in your head. Give it a try, the power difference is negligible. The weight difference is a bigger.

[@bebright15000]

Thank you for posting! GCN did a similar 'scientific' experiment measuring VOC and other data points and found that the difference was fairly marginal. You make a great point though about the perception of readiness and a general feeling of the bike. I am going to assume if we all rode flat pedals, we would get used to it. I recently switched to crank brother pedals when mountain biking and love them. Clipless pedals are definitely the way to go road cycling. But... that all may change when our hover bicycles become popular (ok invented) :)

[@JosFlos.]

I ride enduro and use both, I sometimes use the flats on zwift as well and can get up to 100rpm no problem. It's what you're used to i guess. I do get your point about resting your quads, I also do that with my clipless.

[@paulgerald1985]

Hey Mark, I ride barefoot on my bike! Consistent pushing like you describe. My pedals have a strap on them though to simulate a clipped shoe that I'm now going to try using to help spread the load across multiple muscle groups.

[@nreamer]

What aslan livingstone-ra said, except for the age part -- I am 59 years old. I about fell out of the chair when you said you can't fall off an indoor bike, then showed the clip I knew you were going to show! I think it is the sounds you are making as you slowly fall to the floor that really make that clip so darn funny! Keep up the good work!

[@katzw]

Everything you describe about trying to stand on pedals inversely corresponds to my experience trying clips - I almost went over the handle bars trying to stand up the first time, while on my flats, my feet never come off the pedals. I think others have mentioned it’s foot placement; I’m just used to having my foot further forward to shift my weight on flats after 18 odd years of habit.

[@abcdefgh1]

You nailed it. Clipless allow for additional muscles to be used. Those additional muscles really come into play when you start feeling heavy fatigue and have the option of instead focusing on the "pull up" or "pull back" movements instead to get the job done.

[@MarkLewisfitness]

This is probably the biggest benefit for me - simply being able to put quad use on hold and use something else for 20/30/seconds without seeing a massive drop in wattage. Even more so because I am doing lots of other stuff so completely frying one muscle group doesn't work too well when I want to go for a run the next day!

[@wills2864]

I use flats as a mountain biker. The most important thing is good pedals with long pins and good grippy rubber under your shoes, so the five tens look good but your pedals are probably the problem, Nukeproof horizons are good. If you have the wrong shoes on you will get the problems you described. So for duathlons or triathlons maybe the old style strap pedals would be worth a try.

[@markwoods6342]

I love the amazing athlete comment, made me light out loud. Keep up the comedy in addition to the fitness influencing.

[@nicolasremillard3491]

I didn't know there was such a thing as a Zwift nerd before I started watching this channel. Please keep on sharing dear Bike Wolverine. This is the motivation I sometimes need to ride on my trainer...

[@THAxBLiNt]

I think the fact you were able to perform the same if not better with clipless after performing the same race just 24H before is a relatively conclusive result in itself. I have only been using flats since I started zwift - going to try clipless after watching this!

[@MarkLewisfitness]

Actually, that was why I did clipless second. I didn't want poor results on the flats to be blamed on being tired. You are quite right, if I was more fresh, it would be even more conclusive.

[@randomCADstuff]

There's a couple more styles of pedals to experiment with (various forms of straps). I might actually return to using straps (or "clips" I guess) on my outdoor rides and clip-ins on my indoor. There's a few styles of pedals that offer decent retention (more so on the up-stroke) but usually not quite as good as clipless, especially for the complete rotation.

[@tommyheight1419]

Try flat pedals with classic Converse shoes! They are very flexible, and the rubber sole grabs the pedal strongly. They can be used to give your feet a break from cycling shoes. Converse's breathability is also great.

[@AmaroqStarwind]

A couple of ideas you could try for indoor bicycle modifications; [1] Hand-and-Foot bicycle, to get a full body workout. [2] Ventilated handlebars (and a powered fan) to keep your hands nice and dry. [3] Independent crank arms for your left and right legs.

[@billyb3689]

One thing I don't hear enough of...flat pedals are cheap (decent nukeproofs are like 35 quid) and you can use them with any shoes, given the extra 5kg people are carrying up climbs to coffee and cake so it's not the pedals. But if you're racing, yeah clipless makes sense

[@almorrison2040]

Mark, I use flats on my mountain bike, but I also have the old fashioned toe clips on. I don't bother tightening them up, but can easily swing into them. They do offer a small amount of support to allow you to apply power on the upstroke and keep your feet in place when you vary gears. Might be worth seeing if you can easily get in some with your runners on. Now, they will definitely make the bike look completely daft. Way back in the early '90's a company in the US actually made a flat plate that clipped in to pedals and allowed your running shoe to be locked in, for exactly what you were looking for, fast duathlon transitions. It was full shoe sized.

[@patrickbriggs1182]

Push pull with clip in. Flats do enhance your peddle efficiency but you do need clip in to maintain power circles.

[@Stuey001]

That response from Garmin about the pedals is ridiculous. Glad I went with the favero assioma pedals - they’ve been faultless so far.

[@stephen_101]

Flat pedals work best when your foot is quite far forward, middle of the foot over the axle. The ball of your foot over the axle on flat pedals is one of the reasons your feet feel like they are about to fly off the pedal. Cool experiment though, confirmed my on the road experiences that the difference is negligible overall. With the flat pedals your riding style is like a diesel engine, constant, lower rpm and smooth. Clipped in with shoes you are more like a motorbike, big differences in the revs and you have to really spin like crazy yo get the power. Keep up the good work👍💪

[@robertm1552]

You just proved why Dave Stohler had his feet taped to flat pedals for an improbable comeback win of the Little 500 back in the day. Movie ref “Breaking Away”. Go Cutters!

[@nzmarty]

Great video. BMX riders are actually racing in road shoes and road clips now because lightweight and better pedal/shoe interface than a MTB clip.

[@ferdivantwout8160]

Great video (again)! I used one my old roadbikes as streetbike and I had the XLC PD-R02 on there. More or less pedals being in the middle of being flat and clipless...

[@OneDougUnderPar]

This is my first year cycling/Zwifting, but as a "barefoot style" enthusiast, I had no intention of going clipless. I got some extra long pedals from Pedaling Innovations (very expensive when you get hit by duties), and I still have no intention of going clipless. What you said about shifting focus on different muscle groups is something I can do even more easily with the big flats because I can also adjust my foot position. Sometimes it isn't perfectly placed, but I appreciate the freedom from a psychological standpoint. Now that I want a pair of Assioma powermeters, I'll probably build my own platform onto them.

[@gunn1ng]

100%. You should never be using the clipless to pull a pedal...

[@finallyonethatworks]

Great video as always, would be cool to see you do a mini duathlon test comparing the pedals at a more steady power output and the impact that it has on your run after

[@mathewrose2951]

Best reason to use clipless inside: micro adjustment and fit refinement of your interface with your bike in a controlled environment. I have some verrry light Specialized shoes that are very breathable and feel like bedroom slippers once the fit is dialed in. I use them indoors and a set of Sidi ergos outside.

[@liamchalmers4871]

The wattbike's "peanut" is a great way to see a visual of the muscles working together in transition when you're clipped in. Your first ride will have looking like a figure 8 whereas the second will be more of a peanut (monkey nut shell) shape

[@Scott-J]

You are not crazy with your variable cadence. Simplified there is a balance between getting power out of your muscles with effort or with cardio. High cadence at low effort will tax your breathing and heart rate. Low cadence at high effort will make your muscles burn. So moving between those styles can shift the load between those two systems. My approach is to feel my sustainable balance of effort and cadence. Then I use the bikes gears to handle hills, headwinds, acceleration, descent. I shift *a lot* based on riding conditions.

[@davidriese2898]

Another one of your videos just got shared by zwift insider on Facebook today! Keep up the interesting content.

[@MarkLewisfitness]

They know quality footage when they see it 😂

[@4x4quadbike]

Hi Mark, new subscribers here. I've been checkin out your channel, which is just full of super information across the board, certainly has motivated and inspired myself. You have a superb collection of watches and gadgets, big watch and gadgety person myself, casio mudman, and did a I see a seiko prospec, as well as the Garmin's? Watch episode maybe in the making.. very cool indeed, keep up the good work Mark, great content and very much appreciated, big thanks to sharing your challenges. Best wishes from Dublin Ireland.

[@XX-is7ps]

If flat pedals were as effective as clipless pedals or offered any kind of advantage at all then both amateur and professional racers would be using them. Studies have shown that they aren’t mechanically any more efficient, it’s simply that they ensure a consistent and optimised foot placement and lower cognitive load - your feet can’t slip off the pedals and you don’t have to worry about foot position - you dial the position in once and then it’s perfect without having to think about it every single revolution

[@stephen_101]

Yep unquestionably what you are saying is correct and true given context. A top level athlete in prime physical condition needs every advantage they can get to compete. 1% matters. I think the argument against clipless versus flats is in the context of everyday amateur cyclists who swear there is a huge difference between flats and clipless for them - which is not true. That's where the snobbery stands out. For an amateur there is a different riding style required, but the overall difference is tiny. These same people are usually running unoptimised gear ratios (rear cassette in particular) saddle height, stem lengths and tyre pressures which disadvantage them more than their pedals. Once they get their basic bike fit setup then they might gain an advantage. Do a sportive such as the London to Brighton and see the sheer number of clipped in lycra clad junkies with their saddle way too high with poor back posture. It really is like watching someone running a marathon wearing stilettos!

[@cyclingnerddelux698]

@@stephen_101 so I guess he should have bought a Huffy.

[@AmaroqStarwind]

Nice avatar.

[@byknphil]

Raced BMX in the late 70's and early 80's. Have ridden various types of bikes up into the mid to late '90s. Started mountain biking and gravel riding up to date. On a wahoo kicker and have a fitness bike strap to it with platform pedals on. Not sure if that's the right way to do it but I can tell you that when I started mountain biking with a group I. 2007 I was the only one of 12 that was on platforms. Today all the other guys while mountain biking use platforms and have most their gravel and paved trail bikes on flats as well. Back when I hooked up with that group they were all telling me I would be more efficient if I switched to clipless. I was roughly 10 years older than 3/4 of the group and the same age as the rest and have led the pack since joining them.

[@brendonsmith5029]

Great video Mark. Running flats on my first duathlon and you just saved me from garmin pedals.

[@leovanduyn2699]

I am sure if you have only ever used flat peddles vs clipping in then you have learned to compensate for the Quad burn and power that could be generated on the other parts of the pedal stroke. Case in point, we had this you man that rode with our club who had size 24 shoes, yup 24. Pretty much Shaq feet without the career, money and fame. We tried to find him cycling shoes but they don't make them, go figure. However he could ride that bike up a hill like John Wick reclaiming his Mustang (staying on movie theme) because its what he learned. When I started minimizing my waistline, I took spin for a year and just used trainers and the pedals. I can tell you when I switched over to clipping in it felt like I hadn't taking a years worth of spin classes. I agree with your assessment and will always clip in because of the benefits I gain when I am climbing, especially when I have to stand, not sure about sprinting as I am about as fast as a turtle swimming in quicksand. Also I feel you spent a good amount of time selecting a shirt that would go with your Commando movie clips. Good Stuff

[@davecasey4341]

Pick up a pair of Power Grips pedals. You can ride with your running shoes and still have the "locked in" feeling. I use them on my spin bike and wouldn't use anything else.

[@thargor6750]

Chase group is always more rowdy than the lead after the break. Its crazy

[@liamhooper]

I have many a scar from dmr v12s from my BMX. I will be putting a set on my road bike for casual rides where I don't want to use clips. May have to try this on zwift too once my set up gets here.

[@Danolsen93]

This has become my favorite channel on yt.. Also, always clipless.. Also when i wanna go shopping. The answer is eggbeater pedals

[@MarkLewisfitness]

Thanks Dan, glad you are enjoying the stuff here.

[@oooManixooo]

Mark I assume you have set the crank length on the pedals to match the crank length of the bike you are riding, and then calibrated using the Garmin connect app a couple of times? I suspect you have but just a thought. I have seen some differences between my vector 3s and my stages sb20 smart bike, but only about 30 watts, and not every time. Sometimes they are pretty similar but I am not convinced by the vectors to be honest. Thinking the Faveros may be the way to go:)

[@jasoncooper2469]

when i did my second duathlon i rode in those old fashioned flat pedals with a strap over the top, which means that u can pull up like clips but the transition is much faster.

[@simonwillgress]

Toe clips.

[@aquilesmasdmd]

Chuck those Garmin vectors in the bin. Get some favero assiomo pedals instead. They will at least be accurate and easy to transition across all your platforms.

[@rakeshmottey3384]

power is power.. there is no taking it away from you.. great video ... i think you nailed it.. you need it for the hills and kicks have you thought about the oval ring absolute black? any chance you an do an appraisal :D

[@jasonboring6429]

Have you considered Pyro platform pedals? Might be of interest to you if you are going to do more duathlons. Not cheap though, but neither is your setup. :-)

[@joeypinkerton7018]

Kinda fun experiment. I’d be curious to see what your normalized power was for each race. Might be more telling of the effort you were able to put out.

[@Owlconnections]

When I receive my smart trainer will make this test also. And will try to make a test with my free roll trainer. Maybe it will be easy to keep the balance. Something about flat pedals I had thought already is that we work quadriceps, and its a group that I need to work because on trainer I am strong but on street I am not so good. Will tell you later the diference

[@djconnel]

Nice video: it really captures that qualitative differences matter -- it's not just about watts. But you didn't use your draft power-up in the sprint!

[@MarkLewisfitness]

Didn’t use any power ups so that both races were as even as possible.

[@djconnel]

@@MarkLewisfitness Your sacrifice in the name of science is admirable.

[@glennrush6471]

Got my Wahoo Trainer on the way Mark! If I ever make the 'B Class' it'd be kool to ride with you mate!

[@bitminerbob6731]

"standard 2-minute warmup", lol, I hear that. :D

[@mattmanv3]

Cheers mark. Love your vids. 32 yr old, overweight. Just started zwifting after my ACL reconstruction. Now training for a triathlon inspired by you. But a question. Why do you never use your power ups? I really want to click the screen!

[@MarkLewisfitness]

I didnt in this one as I wanted a like for like with the two pedal types ... but other times I just forget or can't get to the button! Zwift runs on my powerbook which is not within reach, so unless I have my phone near (with the companion app) I can't activate them anyway 🤣

[@christeschke9844]

Flat pedals have to be learned. Try doing a race with no seat :) You will learn how to position your body on the pedals. Try some nylon pedals (dmr v6) the weight is half the dmr v12. No seat race with clipless or flat might be a good one :)

[@alexwakefield534]

Great video - how does toe strap/clip pedals compare with these? You can use your trainers & have you desired fixed security on the pedals? Just a thought!!!

[@stephen_101]

That would be a good experiment!

[@noggintube]

I've had MTB pedals with clip/straps on my kickr bike from day 1. Makes it nice and easy to use my 'gym trainers' and not have to buy specific cycle shoes etc. I see it as best of both worlds, which would especially work for the duathalon aspect mentioned.

[@darinhorton7957]

i wonder how much of a difference the different kit in Zwift world made LOL. Great video.

[@MarkLewisfitness]

Couldn't resist that neon pink

[@bm4122]

I wonder if you thought of Alpe du zwift clueless vs flats!!

[@jooptablet1727]

mtb spd pedals on the indoor trainer. best of both worlds.

[@randydlegend8990]

BMX rider here, almost all of the top BMX racers are clipped in. I'm not clipped in on my BMX bike or my mountain bike but I'm old school and don't race anymore, never been clipped in.

[@Cyclingismywholelife]

Did you adjust your seat height for the flats on your kickr? Depending on your shoes that could be a couple of centimeters difference which could be the difference of full extension to hyperextension. I would imaging your body would protect itself by limiting your confidence because you aren’t comfortably set in the saddle.

[@MarkLewisfitness]

That is an awesome point and I did have to adjust-I was actually going to include the footage of me fiddling about with the seat with two minutes before the race starts but didn't have anywhere to fit it in 😂

[@DiscoFrank69]

I have the garmin vector 3S, and I have to say they a really abysmal. From the beginning on they were cutting out or giving erroneous values. I have even changed the battery cover for the new one, but it did not help. They are one of the most dissapointing pieces of equipment I have ever had.

[@species5022]

Hahaha, the last comment you quoted. So many people missed it 🤣

[@MarkLewisfitness]

Half of those things I only do to make myself chuckle during editing so I have got used to people missing stuff 🤣

[@ianaugustus5648]

Hi Mark. I used to do triathlons on my cheap bike back in the mid 90s. No cleats but I did have toe clips. They made a massive difference. I also raced in cycling touring shoes not normal racing shoes. Mr Lewis's comment sounds a little suss...

[@MarkLewisfitness]

I had those toe clips on my paper round bike in 1988-I didn't know you could even still get them. 😄. And hey, I don't write the comments I just shout them out when they are accurate and informative 😂

[@MarkLewisfitness]

I had those toe clips on my paper round bike in 1988-I didn't know you could even still get them. 😄. And hey, I don't write the comments I just shout them out when they are accurate and informative 😂

[@michaelkay9449]

I've always had them and they work well for Zwift, but not having used cleats I can't say if they're as good. They are a tad cheaper than cleats and shoes, but I've found they do get through cheap plasticy trainers.

[@species5022]

Great video, very interesting results. Never would have guessed some of the results to be so similar. How is the bench press coming along? Careful with that rotator cuff bud!

[@MarkLewisfitness]

Definitely getting stronger and technique is vastly improved. Tonight's session included 5×5 at 80kg and every set felt pretty straightforward with zero discomfort. Early days, but my target of being able to use 100 kg for reps does not seem unrealistic for the New Year and something I will be pretty happy with given I am also deep into ultramarathon training right now!

[@species5022]

@@MarkLewisfitness I'm confident if you keep making steady gains you'll get 100 for reps in the new year. If not, after your ultra you could try getting some creatine in there, but I'm sure you already thought of that!

[@MarkLewisfitness]

@@species5022 Yep, create after the ultra - no good before then as holding additional water won’t help with being light and bouncy for jogging through the woods 😂

[@species5022]

@@MarkLewisfitness As light and bouncy as one can be, pretending to be a marathon runner at 90+ kg Hahaha 🤣 Edit. It would be interesting to see what effect creatine and maybe pre-workout has on your swift performance.

[@oscarmc205]

That intro had me in bits 😂

[@peterwilson1831]

you had a draft boost in reserve for that final sprint....!

[@MarkLewisfitness]

Yes, but I decided not to use any boost on either race just to keep it even.👍

[@nedjones54]

My problem with clipless pedals is size 14 feet. I'm a similar size to you, so where do you buy your shoes from.

[@kevinfarren4564]

Are you going to do a review on the wahoo watch you earned through the channel you work hard at ??

[@andyshepherd5067]

im a roadie after 6 years with clips tried riding flats .............. crashed straight away, stopped at lights fell over cuss was tring to unclip

[@E30OG1]

Mate I’ve literally just got cleats in the last month or so what a difference, help on the climbs especially because I’m not fit yet, soon as you hear them clip in boom your off, love it 🤌🏽🤌🏽

[@phydomir909]

The power difference between the pedals and the kickr bike/trainer is definitely not within expected parameters. When one says 290 and another says 310, ok, i can get with that. One saying 300 and the other 200. No way. Your pedals are broken!

[@dazza8692]

or trainer!

[@kevinfarren4564]

I like the cow 👍🏻

[@Ciupremo]

Mark, we need to work on this sprint. You are a mountain of muscles, 1000w should be eeaaasy. Probably is missing some "speed" in legs, force is there. Have you tried to cool down with a slow pedaling?

[@MarkLewisfitness]

Speed is a good point-whenever I watch proper sprinters I am always amazed how fast their legs are going. I tend to pedal more slowly and just rely on force. Probably not very efficient.

[@Ciupremo]

@@MarkLewisfitness Ye, for sure. In the equation Power = Force * Speed, you can read that speed as cadence. You would have enormous benefits by doing some high rpms workouts. Just learning to spin the pedals over 130 rpms, ideally 140-150 during the peak (when well adapted people can reach near to 200rpms). Combining this with the force you have, will let you break the wall of 1000w.

[@shawnkimmel4115]

@@MarkLewisfitness Just a thought: I have a feeling you aren't pulling very hard with your arms. You're likely letting your body weight alone dictate your power. You need to pull as hard as you can with your arms while you're pushing as hard as you can with your legs. I weigh about 56 kg, and my sprint is just over 1000W. With your strength and mass, you should be able to hit 2000W consistently. You'll get there, I'm sure. You're basically combining a deadlift with a squat. LOL. By the way, this works the same with climbing: when you're seated and climbing hard, pull with your arms and you'll feel your legs respond in kind. Great videos, Mark! All the best!

[@Ciupremo]

@@shawnkimmel4115 No Shawn, 2000W it's only for few gods on Earth

[@shawnkimmel4115]

@@Ciupremo LOL. Maybe, but Mark is around 100 kg, and can squat and deadlift quite a bit. Granted, he is quite tall, so the mechanics may be a bit awkward, but there is no reason that he shouldn’t be able to sprint with the same power as a similarly strong, heavy guy. In Zwift, power is key. Maybe in the real world it would be leg speed, but in Zwift, it’s all about torque. And, Mark should have a ton of it. Mark doesn’t come from a road racing background. As such, he just doesn’t yet know how to do a proper sprint. He’ll learn. He has huge potential.

[@12TylerMcK]

great timing been on the kickr bike a month now considering picking up pedals and shoes curious to see what yea have to say

[@12TylerMcK]

id just like to say im mainly mtb and will never clip but on zwift im considering

[@12TylerMcK]

i feel comfy standing up on my kickr or at least as comfy as id expect on an indoor bike

[@MarkLewisfitness]

I only mountain bike for fun/picnics in the summer but would never clip in (I have done so once and it felt sketchy as hell)🤣

[@12TylerMcK]

@@MarkLewisfitness damn right it’s sketchy! 😂 unless it’s straight cross country not a lot of features I could see it but for the amount of times I put a quick foot down. I’d be dead if I was clipped. (Part of my local trials goes along a pretty large cliff to so yea I need my feet on mtb) thanks for the input on shoes here tho heavily looking into some now what pedals would you recommend? Are you using really expensive ones or just average. I know you mentioned the Garmin but do you use something different on your Kickr bike?

[@DC-lu5qs]

Mark - I recently upgraded from an exercise bike (+ Assioma pedal-based power meters) to a Wahoo Kickr Core smart trainer. I'm seeing nearly the same sort of discrepancies that you are between pedal-based power readings and what the Kickr reports. Considering that both of your comparators to the Garmin pedals are Kickrs that presumably measure power similarly to each other, plus the fact that I'm seeing a similar discrepancy with a completely different brand of pedal meters - I'm inclined to wonder if it isn't the Kickr that's wrong, and your Garmins/my Assiomas are actually correct. To a certain degree, it doesn't actually matter, but my interest is piqued. Thoughts?

[@MarkLewisfitness]

interesting - going to try some assiomas

[@DC-lu5qs]

These guys demonstrate one method for estimating power from weight + time up a hill, which can then be compared to your garmins. I may try the same with mine if I can find a suitable hill. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qaLFXoqer6h0ndk

[@bjarnestrand-henriksen]

🤣😂🤣😂 Love your humor Mr. Lewis

[@blackjohnny0]

Clipless might be better during sprint.

[@youngb3]

well done!

[@joemoya9743]

So.... In a nutshell, the key advantage is that you can fall to floor off your bike in exhaustion with MUCH less effort.

[@alancritchley8835]

Mark did you get Iliotibial band syndrome at first with clipless , or tightness of outside of knee? Or has your running made you not have it and was just an easy transition to clipless? What you recommend stretches to stop this?

[@MarkLewisfitness]

The only issue I had with clipless was a slight in the knee pain that went away as soon as I added 20 mil spaces-I think I am simply too large for the standard narrow set up.

[@antsmands]

You clearly show that there is an increase in efficiency using clipless vs flat.

[@DaveFeltenbergerNYC]

Regarding the Vector 3 pedals: after installing them are you doing a few sprints, calibrating between each one, and getting the torque right when you tighten them? They'll be prone to misread if you don't do that. I've experienced it a few times. But once installed and bedded properly they operate perfectly - or mine do at any rate.

[@cyclingthomas826]

You'll have to try the tick tock flat race on every Sunday at 4:05pm. I think with your raw power and sprint you'll be giving the fast B's a run for their money

[@MarkLewisfitness]

In my diary for this Sunday !

[@cyclingthomas826]

Great stuff, i look forward to watching you blast past me with 200m to go

[@jonmewes9097]

Are you calibrating you’re Garmin Vectors before each use? I was seeing the same discrepancy between my Vector 3’s and my Tacx Neo, but after calibrating the Vectors it’s a lot closer. 🤷‍♂️

[@MarkLewisfitness]

Yep, calibrate them, crank length set, update done, batteries replaced-done the lot🤣

[@cazkelly]

Did you use the Garmin pedals as the power-meter for the race? or just for the clips?

[@MarkLewisfitness]

No, the bike was the power meter source - I did monitor the pedals but just for interest (because they appear to be junk 😂)

[@cazkelly]

@@MarkLewisfitness That sucks, I wonder what the race would have looked like if you had used the pedals as the power meter given they're clocking 1/3 of the power. I just got them to try Zwift cheaply to see if I liked it but couldn't get them tracking power over Bluetooth I'm trying them over ANT+ tomorrow we'll see how it goes - might be the reason SRAM discontinued them.

[@saintuk70]

Watch out GP Lama :) Nice, interesting, and now for something completely different.

[@MarkLewisfitness]

When you see him dropping some Arnold clips you’ll know he’s getting worried 😂

[@ringperm]

I haven’t seen more than a minute yet, but I have to ask. What do you think about those Altras? I assume you like them, since you race in them, and I guess I am just as interested to know, why don’t you do shoe reviews? I enjoy shoe review videos, but most reviewers do not weigh more than two pints of Crisp and a packet of lager. And as a 100kg guy, I cannot relate to that. What would be better than to lure my favourite youtuber (insert major sucking up) into buying loads of shoes and testing them for me. I don’t know about the rest of your audience, but I think those videos would be way above average. 😎✌️

[@MarkLewisfitness]

Basically, I love them and will probably never run in anything else. The company are not great to deal with (that's another story) but the shoes are perfect. I have about seven pairs and must have owned 20 of the things by now. However, the reason I don't do much in the way of shoe reviews is that they are quite an acquired taste. If you do not require the low/0 drop and minimalist style with wide toebox they can seem a bit weird (and certainly feel weird first time you use them). Over Christmas I will probably do a little summary of the ones I currently have in rotation for people that are interested..

[@ringperm]

@@MarkLewisfitness That would be awesome. I used to run in altras, but had to give it up due to issues with my achilles. Ended up as a Hoka runner, but do miss that wide toebox. Looking forward to watching that video, when the time comes

[@RoyImahara]

I think your Vector pedals are faulty. Garmin needs to warranty a replacement set to you.

[@JBuchmann]

A better comparison would be clipless vs flats with a cage attached. With the cage you can pull up and around each peddle stroke, but it's just not as "locked in" as clipless. That's what I use on my trainer with cycling shoes that have stiff bottoms. Running shoes would feel far too squishy. I would love to go clipless as I feel I could put a lot more power down. But right now just too cheap to spend the money!

[@vacon04]

Mark, it seems by looking at your video that your legs are doing more of a "mashing" motion using the flats than when using the clipless shoes. It seems to me like your position would've had to change in order for you to feel comfortable with the flat pedals. Perhaps getting the seat down a couple of millimetres but also a couple of millimetres back in order for you to engage your hamstrings and not only your quads.

[@CBRMackie63]

I think you chose the wrong shoe to do the test with. You chose a mountain bike shoe that has a hard sole instead of the running shoe you used in your duathlon. You wouldn't wear that mountain bike shoe in a duathlon. I would think the running shoe would give you even less power transfer as it would soften it even more with the softer sole. I too have tried the flat peddle with the running shoe in a run\bike un\bike un duathlon. It was terrible because I was on a hilly course. I think your bike result in that duathlon was due to you being a stronger cyclist (great job btw). However, I think you had a couple things playing in your favor, the quicker transition, the flat course and I think because you weren't clipped in, you were able to turn faster. All those things on a short course were big advantage for you. Riding with a soft shoe is like putting a power dampener on your feet. Sorta like taking a rubber mallet and whacking a 2x4, you can dent the board but if I whacked it with metal mallet, I can dent it more and with less force!

[@MarkLewisfitness]

That makes perfect sense - the idea of using the mountain bike shoe was that, if it was as good as being clipped in, that is the shoe I would use in doors. I agree, outside I would be using the running shoe on the race.

[@CBRMackie63]

@@MarkLewisfitness I've been doing tri's for about 10 years. My specialty is sprints and is what I do the most. I consider myself an elite transitioner...lol, if there is such a thing. I pride myself on my transition time. If I'm not the best on the day then I bummed if I'm not top 5. I once had a 21 second T1 which included me taking off my wetsuit. There are lots of ways to save time but you have to be committed to it ;)

[@mastajogurt7520]

Looks like wrong placement of the foot when you were using flat pedals :]

[@bivani]

You may also want to compare your heart rate for both races... See how much you made that poor heart work extra?! Which indicates how much under pressure you may have been... For a 50 y.o me, the main preventive factor is to not put too much pressure on my cardiovascular system...

[@smau990]

5.10 shoes are pile of garbage even for mountainbiking :D Sure there's grip but no structure to the sole to transfer power and they're heavy as hell. If you were running in shoes with carbon shank they were probably working much better. You can spin fast with flats, but it requires getting used to so you lighten the foot coming up. One thing that's undeniably better in clipless is your foot position is constant and the cleat allows bit of float whereas screws biting on the sole has same issues as 0-float cleat but your cleat position changes slightly. Also something not talked much, clipless essentially adds 1cm length to your leg, so it changes saddle height and also the range of motion for knee and hip.

[@cartersheley1567]

bmx uses clips

[@roejogan1759]

don't the cleats from the mtb pedals hit the ground while running?

[@MarkLewisfitness]

No cleats on flats!

[@pt703]

Vector pedals 💩

[@JibbaJabber]

Throw away the GARbage MINger pedals!! #Abomination