Industrial tools vs Tool Trucks! Caution This is a Rant!

[@cindytepper8878]

As long time owners of a truck and equipment repair shop, I can guarantee you that if a mechanic shows up with a big fancy Snap-On box he's nothing but a parts replacement guy, and worse yet he wants to always do unit replacements. If all their tools are perfect, there are no heated and bent, or welded tools, and no homemade special tools in their box, they are pretty much a chain store tech and not what we need in this business

[@azael831]

Basically Mechanics are fools and buy the snap on kool aid, industrial guys arent idiots and buy the same tools at 1/4 of the price. Do you really think a reputable company will ruin their reputation by deliberately compromising their tools? No way

[@tdb19872]

Pretty good stuff. The Mac/Proto dichotomy isn't quite right though. Proto has always been it's own outfit before being bought out by SBD. Proto isn't the inferior individual brand of Mac, in fact Proto generally makes better tools than Mac and they are completely different although that is now changing.

[@fredsesula9787]

Snap on is like Gucci for mechanics. Your paying for the name. Sure it might be a good product but it's not worth 5 times as much as the competitors.

[@brettwalkom948]

Especially when caterpillar sell the same sockets for less than half the price

[@warrenself]

@@brettwalkom948 Caterpillar, Williams, Blue Point, Case IH, New Holland, and Bahco are multiple Snap-On alternatives. Good stuff, but mostly Taiwan versions of Snap-On.

[@brettwalkom948]

@@warrenself case isn't snap on. Williams is owned by snap on..

[@deltahawk1001]

Snap-On itself services both truck and industrial customers. I am a Army helicopter mechanic and I can tell you that while the Army uses a pretty good mix of American brands most of our tools are Snap-On, Proto, or sub-brands/partners of those. (for snap on it is Pro American, Imperial Milbar, Bluepoint, CDI Torque that I can think of offhand) I have seen some Armstrong stuff but not as much. I personally find the quality of Proto to be as good or better than much of the Snap-On, but you sometimes don't get the neat features that Snap-On provides as the industrial tools focus on quality and not so much user friendliness. Proto didn't even offer a ratchet with more than 45 teeth until a few months ago! Overall my preference varies based on what tool I am using. Also the price difference between Proto and Mac isn't nearly as large on equivalent items as between Snap-On and Williams. For me as a consumer one of the biggest advantages to truck brands doesn't exist: that is they bring purchasing and warranty service right to you. This make me more inclined to prefer Industrial tools if I like the tool itself better. Final note, some tools, such as Proto Duratek Screwdrivers vs MAC Mac-Grip, or the Snap-On vs Williams ratcheting screwdrivers I would have a hard time believing they aren't completely identical. I would say most of their tools are as you described but probably not all. Just my observation as an industrial user of a mixture of the brands mentioned.

[@flatratemaster]

As I said, they are very good, tools, and you are correct lots of tools are just rebranded, to a different line, but not all, or even most. And lots of Snap On tools are made completely by some of those sub brands, like all of Snap On Torque wrenches are made by CDI, including the tech angles, but those are exclusive to Snap On

[@lazzyrj1]

David Anderson, first thanks for your service. You nailed it when you said industrial tool brands lack all the cool features that tool truck brands offer because they focus on quality. IMO it's simplicity & functionality. Although some companies like Proto are starting to show more innovation. I am an industrial maintenance mechanic in the injection molding industry and the machines I work on are enormous. Most mechanics have never seen some of the tools we use like my 50mm Allen impact socket I beat the crap out of today. Our machines are built with 95% Allen bolts. We mostly use 1 inch drive & 3/4 inch drive. My regular go to ratchet is a 3/4 inch drive, 36 inch long Proto . It is built like the barrel on a tank. Proto makes some heavy duty tools that strength, & durability wise are superior to tool truck brands but they just aren't as nice. They have to be crazy strong, some of the parts I am removing from these machines(for example a part about the size of a Chevy small block) weigh more than the entire car some of these guys work on. We use 100 ton cranes to remove them. Our torque wrenches max out at 1,800 foot pounds & that is without even using a multiplier. So you can imagine that the sockets, wrenches, ratchets, etc. have to be built with ridiculous strength and durability in mind. I love Snap on tools. Some of the stuff they come out with is just amazing but in my line of work we need simple and powerful.

[@00jake00]

Proto always made a pretty decent tool imo. still use some daily i got from my grandpa that he use to use daily. I bought some williams stubby racheting wrenches online and its very close to the blue points but a little different and of course my rep wont warranty them (8mm stripped out on me). But like prevousiely mentioned industrail tools are good for extreme uses like military an large plant maintance where as tool trucks need to be well designed and made to perform in tight working conditions (fine teeth,little backlash). It would suck working on a new car with the same 36 tooth proto rachet my grandpa used 50 years ago to fix his cars but give me a dual 80 snap on and oh boy now we're talking. I have some industrail brand stuff here and there an they work good but it sucks trying to get someone to warranty them thats the big issue for me.

[@deltahawk1001]

@@00jake00 Yeah, proto's new Precision 90 ratchets are MAC Axis ratchets with better handles, at least if you are like me and enjoy well designed knurling. I have a Plomb (later became proto) ratchet from the late 40s though, and they still sell the same 24 tooth design new on their website! lol

[@00jake00]

@@deltahawk1001 a tool with good knurling is a must especially on extensions when your hands are full of oil and brake fluid its impossible to get a grip on any tool unless you got knurls on it. ya thats just like MAC and their knuckle saver wrenches and their pear head rachets, fan favorite since the beginning of time so they still make em. Ive seen the new proto rachets and was thinking about getting one Ive seen SK came out with a new rachet too along with some x beam wrenches or whatever they call them and have been thinking about ordering a set.

[@ryans9029]

Also, you pay a heavy premium from the tool truck. The tools are priced for a certain customer, and they are priced according to the market aka what the customer will pay. Not only are you getting tool truck mark up, but you are paying for the warranty. Auto and diesel techs break many more tools than industrial shops. This is well known. The replacement tool price is figured into the original selling price. When a company sells to a person or "consumer" aka "single person" aka "tech", you pay absolute top dollar, like any business or industry. When selling to a company that is buying 40, 400 or 4,000(gov) of the same socket or set of whatever, AND there are ten other industrial tool companies trying to get that contract/sale, the price naturally goes down. If the proto costs 2x the SK, the Industrial company will go with SK every time. They must compete. Companies know that mechanics fall for marketing and bright chrome, which is why snap on markets so heavily. Free shirts and hats, stickers, etc... The bean counters at X industrial company don't give a rat about marketing or chrome when they buy 80ct 22mm sockets at a time. They care about bottom line and quality. Comparing a consumer(tech) to industrial contract buyers is comparing apples to Jupiter's. There is a reason the most demanding industrial companies are NOT full of Snap On and older MAC tools. If the tools were better, they would spend the money. They don't. They absolutely aren't buying MAC or Matco taiwan hardline stuff for 2x top quality USA industrial brands. But TECHs still sure do.... TECHs care about what the guy in the next bay thinks about his box and kit. SK and Williams aren't cool. No tech needs a $12k roller... But Industrial brand rollers aren't cool. As long as techs will pay top $$, the trucks will continue to deliver the $$ price tag.

[@zjenji]

Man, this was worded perfectly!

[@VashthStampeede]

I've used mostly Proto tools since starting in the automotive industry in 1971. They are as good today as when new and they've seen daily use until the mid 90s. Now, they see monthly use on mostly my own vehicles. I have some Plomb, Williams, SK, Durochrome, and Craftsman. I even have some SnapOn that were given to me as gifts from friends. Yes, I refuse to step aboard that truck and pay tripple what that tool is worth to me. I bought from MAC once, because I needed a special socket for a job and I saw the truck in the neighborhood. However, tools from the local stores break too often these days. Quality has gone way down in the past 20 years.

[@robertvaughanll1886]

I'm a maintenance tech in a manufacturing plant. I buy my tools and rely on them to make my living. I have and always will prefer to buy SK or Wright tools for my job.

[@flatratemaster]

Very good tools and will give you years of great service!

[@fredflagstone181]

There's nothing wrong with SK and Wright, and nothing wrong with claiming the preference for them.

[@MagWire8]

Robert Vaughan ll I have some old SK screw drivers my dad gave me and they are great! I like them better than my MAC screw drivers.

[@mikeholt3545]

I was wondering if someone else had the same proclivities as me.

[@rigsby7255]

Tractors and implements I stick to SK and Proto

[@dylanbland5993]

Williams has two lines. USA and Taiwan (I.e. industrial sister to bluepoint). I have USA Williams and snapon in some of the same tools, and, while, Williams seem to be every bit as strong, they are not up to the same quality standard. You’ll find more forging dings and scars, they’re not ground as well, the chrome isn’t quite as nice (it is still nice). Then on like screwdriver handles etc., the Williams and classic hard plastic snapon look identical, but the Williams aren’t as nice. Have a little casting flash, and just not as smooth. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Williams tools. They’re built for fleet purchase as strong, dependable, highly functional tools, and that is exactly what they are. They do not feel as nice in your hand or look as nice though. To some, myself included, that’s more than fine. Good USA made tools at a decent price point. They’re not snapon money, but they’re not snapon nice either.

[@brettwalkom948]

I dunno.. Ive got lots of williams supercombo wrenches.. Not one of them has a off centre broach.. But more than you'd think of my snap ons are

[@OldBeaterGarage]

I own the old Snap-On screwdriver set with the hard handle and the Williams available today is IDENTICAL in form fit and function at a fraction of the price I paid in the early 2000s (ain't that some $heet). SOME of the Proto tools are superior to their MAC counterparts e.g. the made in USA Proto ratcheting wrenches (now discontinued). Armstrong is now moot and Apex is claiming Crescent is the replacement 😆

[@Freakingstang]

Good video. A lot of Williams tools (that are USA made) are older snap on designs such as their 3/4 ratchets and sockets. And you’re spot on about one manufacturer making different quality “identical” brands. Take proto adjustable wrenches for example. They were made by western forge who was the Oem for craftsman, KD tools, Allen, Ridgid, Williams etc. the proto adjustable wrenches were always a smoother and tighter clearances as well as a better finish.

[@michaelwright1602]

I'm in automotive manufacturing supplier plants all the time, truck driver, Detroit area/region... I can tell you, they may make parts for five different car companies, and they all have different standards, grades of steel, plastic, etc. I can tell you this, a part for Honda or Toyota is going to be built to a higher standard than what GM and Ford is ordering. That is first hand from the guys running the parts. They will look identical, but they are not, not even close.

[@ryans9029]

Years ago on GJ we went thru the Williams snap on thing. I can tell you that the sockets are/were the SAME as of like 2012ish. At the time, I worked at a cold roll bar mill that makes and supplies gear and shaft bar all over the world. They also supply a number of US tool companies with bar for socket and wrench blanks. I can say that you certainly own some of them... Anyways, I had the QC guys run a full QC test gauntlet including steel composition on brand new SO and Williams sockets and wrenches. The chemical make up was identical as far as they could test. The hardness was identical in the sockets(within a very tight parameter). The chrome was slightly thinner on one, iirc the Williams. Could be remembering wrong tho. Broaching was equally spec'd/accurate. Williams were not "looser" like many claim. The wrenches were identical as far as they could tell also, but the Hardness varied from wrench to wrench much more than with the sockets, both brands varied within the same range. Chemical comp was indistinguishable, both were certainly the same steel, can't remember the exact steels. Ill have to see if I can find the print outs and comment again. We determined the hardline tools are the same spec'd steel, same hardness range, broaching was to the same parameter/tolerance, slightly different chrome. Different roll marks obviously. Obviously that time frame... Can't speak for now or before. I would be willing to bet that they are still the same now as they were then tho.

[@DannyPops]

This is exactly what I was trying to glean from this video. Thanks for sharing the results.

[@jonathanhill7295]

I have new Williams sockets as of 2021, same as snap on in everything but different markings

[@upminer6162]

@@jonathanhill7295 ok so I'm not crazy lol we did get a shipment in and I thought the same... Our older Williams stuff was different but this new stuff looks identical

[@darrenporsch]

Ryan thanks for the info. I don't think these guys understand how much money it would cost the companies to have two different metal formulas on hand and in stock. Than make a difference production run. It would be too cost-prohibitive. Stampings of the easiest thing to change and doesn't cost them much. And a lot of companies make private label tools for other companies and just put the other company's name on it

[@BackCountryWrenching]

i can honestly say that the bluepoint Ratcheting wrenches share the same gear as the williams ratcheting wrenches as one guy at works buys the parts off the snap on truck to fix his wrenches

[@flatratemaster]

I believe both of those wrenches are made by Kabo, same place that use to make gearwrench

[@sanchocloset5987]

Yeah I noticed that about my bluepoint wrenches. If it was snap on ,it would say snap on not Williams on it

[@devoncoolman88]

Some things are exactly the same like you said blue point and williams ratcheting wrenches are the same. Alot of blue point tools are also offered by williams. Most are just rebrands made by other companies anyway.

[@GregariousAntithesis]

Blue point is noticably cheaper made on some things.

[@SHAKA38]

I remember that after the Hurricanes of 2004, we made standby generators for Verizon and Sprint cell phone towers at Generac. The only difference between those two were the coolant because they were in different regions. Generac also makes a lot of other brands like Brinks, for example. I was also an equipment operator for Palermo's Pizza and they would make 15K of their (insert toppings here), change the grade of mozzarella and make 10K for Kroger, upgrade the pepperoni and run 12K Kroger Select, throw in some sausage and run 20K for Winn Dixie, and so on, continually changing the specs as ordered by each client. The Williams is made at the same plant, but is it the same steel or the same specifications? Probably not. Having said that, is the Snap On markup ridiculous? Hell yeah!

[@flatratemaster]

My boss, does consulting for Manufacturing companies, trust me he has told me plenty of stories, hes the guy that gets to streamline the change over processes etc.

[@christiancern4275]

interesting that I am possibly going to buy Williams flex head ratcheting wrenches and also know the owner/son of Palermo's Pizza. small world haha. I came to this video just to see if its definitely worth it, but as a DIYer I feel Williams will be morrrrreeeee than efficient for my use. no need to spend $500+ for a set of wrenches versus $180-$200

[@SuperTrent131]

I've use to be a steel worker and melted then rolled the metal. You can make different products with the same machines. You change rolls, grade of metal (if you're talking just one type of metal) and whatever else. You don't just make one thing if you have all the machines.

[@bodgitandleggitgarage]

the three Thumbs Down must be from people who think all metal is the same quality and a socket is a socket

[@flatratemaster]

LMFAO Leon! damn Fanboys;)

[@TriggerTravels]

I've found all my Williams ratchets to be much stronger and heavier duty than snappy. The tooth count is like 36 though and the metal used is definitely different. My 1/2 Williams seems like it weighs about 10 lbs. I agree though, they are much different and built for different markets.

[@goinhot9133]

This is true with even paper folders, clay pipes anything really... I’ve worked in several manufacturing plants, some companies want tighter specs, or a little better. Same machine makes same product, but one customer is picky other isn’t. The stuff that’s made for picky customer, is tighter quality controlled. Goes for anything

[@Toyotas_n__Tools]

I'll say theyre identical as in the way the labor to takes them is the same and they dont warrant the huge cost vs counterpart. Good subject!

[@mike4796]

Flat rate Master I can respect your thoughts on Williams and Snap On tools. You are correct in that manufacturing varies and conditions change. The QC dept of a manufacturing facility is accountable, for what is allowed to be sold or possibly reworked or even scraped. I been in manufacturing 32 years production, maint. And QC WILLIAMS are good tools typical use are the combo wrenches 7/8 through 1-7/8 They hold up well Snap on has been the gold standard for others to follow but you just don’t see S/O in an industrial setting to pricy, But Williams super combo’s along with Channellock 440’s go a long way in an industrial setting. Keep up the good posts!

[@Jeff-rk8hq]

Imo wright tool followed by proto are the top 2 industrial tool brands imo. Tbh if your not buying ratcheting wrenches or something specific or don’t need the extra length the snap on offers then I’d go with wright tools when it comes to both traditional (non ratcheting) 15deg offset 12pt combination wrenches as well as HD impact sockets. Even over snap on but I’d wager anyone who has used them would agree the value to quality level is 👌🏻anyone trying to not pay triple the price, give em a look, you won’t regret it… I do wish they made 1/2” power sockets (swivels) but the Astro pinless sets are pretty good and at an unbeatable price

[@branned]

I own BOTH Williams and Snap-on. They are the exact same except for the ratcheting screwdriver which is close. Even my snap-on dealer was shocked.

[@AdriftAndAtPeace323]

Something else needs to be mentioned is as a consumer, you aren’t able to warranty Williams tools without a rep. It’s not like snap on where you can mail in for a replacement without having a franchisee

[@Eggomania86]

I work in the printing industry, I also do agricultural welding and blacksmithing on my days off. I love Williams tools! You definitely hit the nail on the head. They are made in the same facilities as Snap-On yes. Williams tools are made differently because they are specifically designed for heavy duty applications such as servicing and assembly of machinery. A friend of mine is a mechanic, he is a Snap-On guy. We had this argument before LOL. I realized what he was talking about when we compared 3/8" drive rachets. His 3/8" Snap-On has finer teeth I admit it's a bit smoother. It performs better in tighter spaces. My Williams rachet does better when it comes to torqueing something down or breaking something loose. Snap on has all the bells and whistles designed with ergonomics in mind and to be more user friendly. Both tool brands are excellent quality. It's just like any other job or application use the right tool for the job.

[@johnmichaellane1]

I don't care one way or the other about their wrenches and sockets but man... the hard handle screwdrivers bring back memories of shop class in high school. I love those handles. It's too bad Snap-On doesn't still offer that style.

[@flatratemaster]

LOL, my favorite screwdriver is an old school Mac hard handle

[@MrGamer-lz6ci]

The sockets are for sure the same no, regardless you can get the grade of steel tested on both sockets if you’re worried about what Steele is used. Also, if one was different size that just because Snapon makes deeps and semi deeps

[@Zib187]

I always laugh when people say product Y is made at the same plant as product X & that they are the same. When it comes to steel products there's different contents in the steel. Some steel with have more raw material in it & another will have more recycled material in it. Some will also have more nickle content in it etc. (i.e. the old Ford 300 inline 6 had a lot more nickle content in the cylinders thus that's why they held up better).

[@EXOVCDS]

Somebody needs to go undercover at the plant... and shoot some video!!!! =)

[@flatratemaster]

lol!

[@andyzumwalt3632]

I work as an aircraft mechanic,. I had a boss that got a hands on tour with the DOD of a tool foundry in the US. Years ago he saw them pour wrenches of one brand then another he watched the whole process from step one to another he asked the engineer why they make the different brands and was told that the process was the same but the metal was different. Even American made verried was what I took away

[@wconstructionco]

I always try to buy anything Wright, Williams, Armstrong, Bonney, Proto, I see at auctions/garage sales, etc. I am not sure it's fair to compare though as the William's and wright are usually all engineers wrenches. I have a set of Burnzomatic sockets that were made in Japan that I love. My tool snob tools are all Wera and Whia, with some Hazet thrown in.

[@Hangerman7]

at work we have a set of Williams 3/4 drive sockets and when we broke a 1" to 3/4" reducer, also a Williams tool, we started looking at them and they are made in China. also it takes like 5 weeks to warranty a Williams tool

[@flatratemaster]

Williams has 2 lines one US made and the other well you know

[@mr.orim0782]

can't forget about Wright tools when talking industrial. great video!

[@tylersowa3858]

You did not hate on any tool you just told the truth !. Respect points earned

[@tinisterr]

A rant is just what I was looking for, for the drive home. Thanks :)

[@chrismeyer957]

In my experience working for the railroad, Proto makes tools for hard use and may not be as refined as snap on but snap on is mainly for automotive use. Snap on tools in my experience don’t hold up as long as Proto, but it’s not really made for difficult work, it’s automotive.

[@keshmo12]

I had to laugh because I work at a manufacturing facility and we have a lot of Armstrong stuff. I think the ratchets are good but they don't hold up. They use the same head as like craftsmen or something. It's like 48 tooth and the snap on 72 tooth ratchets are so much smoother and feel better.

[@ronbaynes2755]

My opinion is it's whatever tool works best for you in any given repair job. My box has various USA brand ratchets but I have one, old, USA made, Craftsman I use for certain jobs that I prefer over my Snap On, Mac, or Gearwrench ratchets. It just works better for me in those applications. It's a personal preference for me but I prefer Mac over Snap On or other brands when I make a new tool purchase. Good video, thanks !

[@flatratemaster]

As I said not bad mouthing these tools, just get a little tired of that line same as brand XYZ

[@gtcam723]

Man this video has some staying power. Even in industry we use a mix of Proto and Snap On. We even have a slew of Snap On industrial sockets (wish they made them in metric) that we use. And those are less expensive at least partly because they’re black oxide finished (not to be confused with impact sockets - they even say non-impact on them)

[@steverothgery3234]

I was talking to my snap on dealer and he said One of the biggest reasons why Williams is cheaper is because they do not carry a lifetime warranty.

[@JRasS14]

Not true, just make sure it's an authorized dealer. Amazon is NOT an authorized dealer

[@Peep18m]

Steve Rothgery you’re dealer lied to you. I’ve warrantied a few Williams sockets no problem. Be sure if you buy some get the USA ones. The USA made has numbers and letters in the part number Taiwan is all numbers. The ratchet wrench’s however have letters and numbers but are Taiwan made. I really like the ratchet wrench’s.

[@dillon3355]

Just because its the same plant doesn't mean shit. The materials can be completely different. The inspection protocols and frequency can vary. There can be slight design differences etc etc. Coatings/chrome etc etc. Surface prep.

[@JimmyMakingitwork]

Either way Snap On has gone down in quality a bit in recent years. Never bought a Williams tool direct for comparison. Any differences are likely to avoid patent infringement.

[@dstblj5222]

It's the same company patent infringement isn't a thing

[@svn5994]

Snap On owns Williams. That's like saying Ryobi would be infringing on Milwaukee's patents. TTI would be sharing.

[@martinschaffmeir7729]

Hi sir fine post, the rant wasn't to bad, I have some old Williams and I don't care what anybody says in general they just don't make tools like they use to. I rethought that comment, the truth is cheep tools back in the day were just that and the good tools are still good today but I do see a difference

[@josephriddle2772]

Oh yes they do! Wright Tool Co. 🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧

[@notchagrandpa8875]

While I understand this guys point of view and respect his decision to by the best tools for his line of work, I happen to know for a fact that J H Williams and Snap-on sockets and ratchets are identical in every way, as far as the steel that was use in manufacturing, the hardening process and so forth.....EXCEPT! Here's the differences Williams doesn't offer road side sales and replacement, or the hand delivery, but the biggest differences as far as the manufacturing aspect is concerned is during the chroming process, snap-on tools have a much better chrome plating, they undergo additional polishing before the chrome plating, which gives them that wow factor shine we all know and love, and Snap-on has a much thicker chrome plating to help prevent chipping, and flaking and will resist rust much longer than the Williams brand, Snap-on is manufactured to tolerate harsher conditions over a longer period of time, because the auto world is the hardest environment on hand tools, most industrial work sites make the most of the power tools and use more impact grade equipment usually, where as the auto technicians are more hands on, working far more in tight quarters using hand tools, the blue point brand is a different story, many of those tools are out sourced to Taiwan and made similarly to gearwrench by Apex tool group. If you're a professional Auto tech and you're going to cheap out by buying industrial grade tools stick with Williams but do your research, because even some of the Williams line is out sourced to Taiwan, although most are still made right here in the good old US of A but not all are.

[@brettwalkom948]

I assure you industrial mine sites ect are much harder on tools than any automotive setting..

[@scottyee707]

Williams ratchets are not 80 tooth

[@devoncoolman88]

Agree. Got tired of hearing it on garage journal. People saying Williams is the same as snap on. Proto is the same as mac. Ok and your proof is?? Just because you own a socket set or some wrench and you like them. Doesn't mean they're the same. A craftsman wrench will turn the same bolt as a snap-on and may even last as long as a snap-on. But they're not the same. I believe willams tools are still made the same as they were before snap-on acquired them. I would assume snap-on manufactures them in the same plant because why have two different plants manufacturing two different brands when you could have one do the same.

[@flatratemaster]

Me to on GJ;)

[@devoncoolman88]

Flatrate Master gj is a great resource for info. And some really knowledgable and helpful people on there. But everyone thinks their opinion is correct and the best thing ever.

[@fredflagstone181]

Garage Journal? That place outlived it's usefulness years ago.

[@johngibson3594]

Quantity effects price as well. From what I understand that's how Sears used to do it and offer a quality tool in the correct price range. They now have a different approach cheaper made at higher price. I agree with your video there are so many ways that can make you question brands. I have heard that the China made tools have quality problems because the use the tool dies way too long , where you have quality tools the dies are switch more often.

[@flatratemaster]

Yes that can happen with any manufacturing company, failures in quality control, were either Managment or personal just don't care

[@embreesmith7613]

I have worked in China for Delphi, and for Kodak... the issue with chinese QC, is there may be none a Part is Spec'd measures good and they proceed to run 200,000 parts until there is a Machine problem the machine fixer guy lives in Long Dong, and will not be here for months in the interim, they get the Machine running again, and what ya get, is what ya get

[@bkseitz]

Not exactly: the specifications for "government spec tools" (e.g., Mil-Spec) are public domain. Other industrial (eg., industry: automotive) applications may not have specs available to public

[@procyonia3654]

As an Industrial guy, I agree with you. Though you cant go wrong with William's infact they shit on Snap on as far as wrenches are concerned.

[@Fedwrench]

Nice Rant. Not to get your blood pressure up but, Williams has two lines. One made in the USA and the second line is Taiwan made. Now I will agree with you that Williams does not equal Snap on. However, Williams Taiwan does equal Blue Point. On a side note, Proto probably has the largest selection of metric wrenches and impact sockets of any of the industrial brands. Thanks for sharing your wisdom!!!

[@flatratemaster]

+Fedwrench thank you, I did not clarify in the video but I was only speaking of the US line from Williams and you are correct on the Tiawan situation

[@harveysmith100]

If you ask a baker to make two cakes, one the best he can and another, to look the same and taste the same, he can do it, nearly. Steel is steel, nearly. A fraction of a percent of one ingredient can make all the difference. (When I say steel, I actually mean the alloy that tools are made of.)

[@flatratemaster]

Very true statements they may look the same but very different ingredients

[@benjaminromshak9904]

I dig the video, would love to hear more insider stuff about who makes what and this and that. AVE does a lot of that kind of talk in his videos on power tools. Got yourself a new subscriber Sir!

[@shramj]

I just bought some USA made Williams sockets. I will compare them to the Snap On sockets I have when I get them and see how similar they at least look, would be cool to tell if the steel is different or not.

[@elioselectric468]

Lot of factors involved in making tools. If you want durable low tolerance tools other than USA at a fair price check out German made, you won't be disappointed. For the upcoming younger guys. Check out the German Amazon. I bought a beautiful set of extra long Hazet wrenches a couple years ago that would stand toe to toe with any USA made brands.

[@brando81]

Interesting topic for sure. I used to wrench on locomotives, we broke a snap-on 1" swivel adapter, then a Williams adapter. You could hold them side by side, and the way they broke was identical. 3rd try we used a cheaper one, and it twisted off completely different. Lol

[@TheMegaross91]

What you pay snapon etc more for is the fact you can swap it, finance it you have the tool truck on your premises. I buy lot of elora, facom, bahco, roebuck, norbar, mitutoyo etc. Even my multimeter, it's fluke not snapon. When you buy those tools they're made to an extremely high spec, higher than your average automotive tool. But you cannot swap them with a guy in a truck on Tuesday or finance them without having your own line of credit. What I say to guys, buy the tools you're going to break from the place you can swap it. Buy the precise ones from the best companies. Buy the rarely used ones from China.

[@andrewscott8892]

Buy the rarely used ones from Taiwan, try to buy the absolute minimum amount of things from china as physically possible. Buying from Taiwan is spring an ally, buying from china funds the Chinese Communist Party and they need to be sent to hell ASAP

[@miket6978]

the most important part of tool making is the tempering process, a lot of the blue point hand tools are made by snap on but to lower tolerances and they don't temper them as much. even if they are the same tho i would still want the snap on. people still buy rolex even tho you can get a knock off for a hundred bucks

[@patrickwelch620]

A broken tool gets you back to the truck, and a replaced broken tool makes you happy, hence you buy more. Craftsman used this ploy for years. I have used the hell out of my Bahco sockets as well as my Snap ons. Snap-on has motivation to innovate. Bahco and now Williams has incentive to increase quality. Do the math.

[@jasonweishaupt1828]

Been using US Craftsman since the 1990s. I only broke two. A 3/8 drive ratchet from abuse, and a 3/8 u joint. The rest are going strong.

[@altonriggs2352]

Hard to believe the cost involved in changing over production from one steel to another. Why make and stock two or more parts that are identical.

[@jordancolgan9843]

I’m an industrial maintenance tech I use Pittsburgh lol but our shop buys all proto stuff they seem nice. I would love to own snap on just can’t justify the price keep up the videos

[@Montana10mmAuto]

I go with industrial tools because i just cant afford snap on mac or matco ill go with cornwell though because they arent too expensive but i dont mind used tools either plenty of used snap on. As long as you can get the job done properly.

[@jonsimmons3507]

My uncle worked for Williams. They used to make wrenches and sockets for all big three.

[@nordicpride9708]

Just gonna say WRIGHT tools makes some badass sockets and box wrenches that easily best Snap On

[@RecklessEnterainment]

Williams has two lines as well, USA made tools and Taiwanese made tools. The USA made stuff is similar to snap on, the Taiwanese stuff seems to be similar to blue point stuff. Also the tools offered by CASE IH are made by snap on too but they’re all Taiwanese made and some of them are the same as what’s sold as Williams tools. I have some Williams USA made sockets and they’re very nice. Not sure how easy they are to warranty. I’m sure no where near as easy as the snap on branded products.

[@pablopopovich1762]

Good video. Its been a few years since this video has been made but I still agree.

[@Thaxmanwvu]

Enjoyed the topic and the rant. Your absolutely correct, one cannot assume that brand X is identical to Y because their both made in plant A. That being said I have read somewhere that Williams and Snap on chrome sockets are similar but not the same. Difference apparently is in the rockwell hardness and chroming process. Supposedly the impact sockets are the same, identical hardness , steel , finish etc. Again all speculations. Doesnt really matter anyways as Williams , Proto , Wright etc are all great tools.

[@flatratemaster]

They are all great tools and will give years of service!

[@raylynn9236]

Finally someone who gets it I’m sick of hearing everyone say this and that are the exact same thing

[@brad3741]

I just got some Wiiliams USA made sockets. They are not identical to my snap-on. They have slight cosmetic difference on the outside of the socket. But inside, drive end and fastener end look to be identical. Broaching looks the same, very clean machining on both brands. The big difference is the finish and chrome. The Williams most definitely is not as nice as snap-on. This is not a big deal, they just aren't as pretty. However, a couple of my Williams sockets had very poor chrome. No chrome at all on parts of the socket. I bought them on Amazon, so I exchanged them. The replacement set of sockets looks pretty good. For the money, I don't know of a USA made socket that is this good of a deal. I am still trying to buy American made tools, but it's getting hard to do unless I want to spend crazy money.

[@Spectt84]

Snap-on is out of my budget, I'll take my chances with the identical off brands.

[@Toolaholic7]

Craftsman had an industrial line too.Snap On also makes tools for Caterpillar.A Caterpillar wrench is basically a Snap On wrench with the Caterpillar name on it

[@snapmac5547]

I hear this all the time also. My response is why would a tool manufacturer make the exact same product out of the exact same materials, Rockwell hardness and components and sell one product at a cheaper price? They are not the same. Never have been. Ford and Lincoln Mercury have similar models that many parts interchange on but have different pricing because they are different. Good video!

[@likhwadube5937]

Snap Mac Ever heard of brand loyalty? Companies like Snap On rely on this to charge ridiculous prices as they know there's a hard core group that will buy their stuff regardless of price. Even if there's equal or better quality stuff at cheaper prices....

[@flatratemaster]

Simple answer they don't ;)

[@ZeroCoolOO7]

Why would a company do this? To corner the market. They do the same thing in the grocery business... name brand can goods at full price vs store brand at half price (but they are the same product). They get the consumers to buy either product and they have made a 📈.

[@joshtalbot1086]

I have compared side by side as well as people have tested hardness and metallurgy and proven them to be the same. I dont have a snap on truck to make any warranty convenient so i would be a moron to spend 4 times the price for the same exact thing! I could maybe barely justify snap ons absurd prices over williams if i had the warranty but that is the only reason.

[@reindeer8890]

(7 years later)...This is sure a long-winded way to say 'I DON'T KNOW IF THEY"RE IDENTICAL'!!!!

[@DOYLECLEVERLOBE1]

All I have read is that after Armstrong was shut down that Apex are putting more focus on Gearwrench brand whatever that means lol.

[@flatratemaster]

Remember Matco is no longer owned by Apex, hence them dropping production at the Armstrong plant, moved to a different US tool maker, that I can't remember the name of

[@zzre7456]

Flatrate Master New subscriber here; I like your content. I do quite of bit of work on the side but I am senior mechanical engineer at my day job but I do stay busy with my tools. I really liked the latest offerings from Armstrong especially their long combination wrenches. The design of the handles on their ratchets work really well for me. I couldn't ask for a better wrench than the Armstrong wrenches but for sizes larger than 15mm in both standard length and long I go with Snap-on. I really like Armstrong's torque wrenches and ratchet wrenches too. I never cared much for Armstrong sockets so I mostly use SK in metric and Snap-on for SAE. Anyways, I really hate to see Armstrong go away. I use quite a bit of their stuff and it feels just as good in my hands as my Snap-on tools. All my 1/2 drive stuff is Snap-on but Armstrong came to be my go-to tools. I don't think I will extend that to GearWrench.

[@davidkanengieter]

Matco's secondary line (can't think of the name, use to be Silver Eagle) have their impact sockets made by Sunex now. They also make impact sockets branded for NAPA.

[@michaeldeel7998]

just seen this video but, I hope you see and comment back to me...But what about the Willaims 36 tooth pair head, it has the same Part number for there rebulid kit as the Snap on 936 ratchets... is that going to be a snap on part? meaning the williams ratchet has Snap on gears and pauls? thanks for the videos..

[@robertkotula5389]

Good rant. Some people just don't get it. Thinking back 40 years to my first tool box my dad bought me when I was 18: Challenger by Proto with some Bonney. My dad was not a mechanic and neither was I. The box had 3 handles with a large removable top tray, with no sliding drawers. Weighed well.over 100#. The tools were heavily used and had plenty of character. The deal came with 6 Motor books. Back then Motor was the source for how to repair vehicles. A few years later I joined the Air Force as a general purpose mechanic. I knew absolutely nothing going in and came out with a good grasp of the basics. A few years later I became a C-130 navigator. All C-130's have Snap-on boxes permanently mounted on the right as you enter the crew entrance door. As with all aviation the tools/boxes they are shadow boxed in foam. Most of the hand tools were Snap-on, but some were low bidder tools. Military takes FOD damage very seriously. One tool missing meant the plane was grounded. You do a nice job on your videos. Lots of good info and the price is right.

[@wyattoneable]

I found the information worth while so thumbs up!

[@kmadamsable]

Off the rant but I know the military spec snap on tools are a lower grade steel with no warranty.

[@Jameswest1687]

If you buy Williams USA they are the same sockets come out of the same dies as Snap-on the only thing on the Machinery that changes is the the roll stamp press dies the Williams ones are less enterkit which allows faster production speeds versus the Snap-on sockets and Snap-on is made from Virgin metal Williams is not also the type of people who buy Williams are maintenance people and homeowners so they don't get warranty like Snap-on this is why they are cheaper but they are the same socket I won't tell you how I know this you can just take it for what it's worth

[@nathanielbonde7716]

I'm not a pro mechanic but I will say with confidence that a williams brand ratchet is far superior to any ratchet that you can buy at harbor frieght or home depot. At least in my opinion. Is it better than snap on? Idk, ask the pros.

[@toddhayslett8269]

China gets a bad rap because in the past they made some very crappy tools. I have a set of no name metric wrenches from the early 90's and they are just junk. Yes I have used them but you can just tell they are junk. Now we are having lots of good tools coming out of China. What changed? Name brands started making tools in China and putting out the specs and quality control. There are lot's of good tools coming out of china now. It boils down to the Brand name company making sure the specs are followed and the quality control is put in. You can find plants all over china with brand new state of the art cnc machine tools. I mean huge factories with row upon row of brand new machines. So it is becoming harder and harder to say all tools from China are junk. I think the most important thing is the company behind the tool. That is what you are paying for. Snap On tools are better than Craftsman or Harbor Freight but they always have been but you pay for that quality. As a guy who just does simple things to my vehicles. I don't need 50k in Snap On tools. The guy working 12 hours a day 6 days a week very well might, or he might just enjoy higher quality and can afford it. I have a huge collection of Craftsman USA tools that I bought in the 90's when I was in my 20's and building my tool collection. Not a single Craftsman USA tool has broke on me from correct use. I have only broke 1 ratchet that I put a cheater pipe on. Went to sears the put new guts in. That's it.

[@flatratemaster]

LOL, I had a collection of broken Craftman ratchet back in the day, 4 or 5 on hand at any one time

[@MrMarty77777]

Do you think there is a difference between Milwaukee impacts from home depot vs tool truck Milwaukee. I've got 4 bad impacts out of the box from Amazon and home depot.

[@ocoutdoors2355]

The literature implies that the snap on vs Williams ratchets difference is in tooth count. IDK either way.

[@ryans9029]

And dont get me wrong, my box is full of snap on. But there is a ton of Williams, wright, and plenty of Taiwan gearwrench stuff.. Just see the industry for what it is. That's all I'm saying

[@doctoramp5180]

I have a set of Williams combination wrenches. They are thicker and heavier than Snapon.

[@TriggerTravels]

Yep...

[@elioselectric468]

Yes sir. The wrenches are totally different

[@paulb4496]

Williams tools that have all numbers are Taiwan made. USA made Williams tools have letters then numbers for part numbers.

[@Donthetoolman]

There is a big difference between Williams and snap on take apart a vintage jh Williams &co s52 ratchet and take apart a Williams s52 ratchet from the mid 90’s when snap on bought Williams even though both ratchets have the same internals the snap on Williams looks really crappy inside

[@timkiser5971]

I always say its comparable to snap on there good quality for a good price. I have a ton of proto stuff and snap on and Williams etc and all are good quality

[@deepsquat600]

Yeah that "its the same " crap used to bother me when I sold mattresses.. people would think a Sealy was a sealy .... not true ..good Sealys..Excellent Sealy Posturpedic /// same factory different specs// Or car..Cadillac and Chevette .. same ...I think not

[@CocoaBeachLiving]

Snap-on definitely doesn't give out its metallurgical info. My customers ask all the time; I can't get that info. Besides, they keep moving their tool manufacture to Taiwan.

[@johnb1121]

What tools do you use for drum brakes make a video please.....

[@mudbugsoff-road4081]

man that box is growing on me.....good video

[@aswasw9409]

What is that box its sick

[@motorcyclesandridingfree2899]

Plus they dont have the same warranty in some cases.

[@flatratemaster]

Good to know!

[@ryans9029]

One last thing I'll add. The argument that there is no reason to believe the tools are the same goes both ways. There is absolutely nothing to support that the tools are different, other than the price tag. I have heard the arguments. I did what I could to to get then tested. I got the results I got. I have NEVER found a single piece of evidence that they told are different in ANY WAY. It's not hard to set up a couple real world destructive tests and break a couple sockets and thrash a couple wrenches as compare the numbers. Strain gauges(among other things) aren't that hard to come by these days. My question is "other than PRICE, what reasoning does anyone have to believe the tools are different in ANY way other than cosmetically?" some times companies have less than pure moral reasoning behind why they do things. I have come to believe snap on is one of them. Why don't we see Williams hats or proto NASCAR hood decals? Huge marketing money means one thing.. Huge profits are to be made from consumers. Think about it a bit. Its all there for to figure out.

[@Smokin07ram]

How is it that the same company owns both brands and one is cheaper.....because they want to make less money? Right.......Sure! OK maybe Not! Torque wrenches are a really good discussion point for this, as though it might be made by the same brand, there is very little in similarity in fit, finish, and internal detailing...attention to detail is expensive! Sometimes good is good enough though....got to choose your battles. I like your thinking FRM!

[@JerodMatlock]

Engineer here - these comments are spot on. Tolerances are another key attribute that can differ among tool labels produced in the same factory.

[@normansmith7806]

Good rant ! I have some Williams !/2" drive SAE sockets ( American made) and there quality is not as good as my Snap On sockets. I like them and they are good sockets but not the same.

[@flatratemaster]

Thanks Norman! I have some Williams but not much, been getting on that rape truck for a long time;)

[@fatknucklesproductions7517]

I seen a Kennedy toolbox for sale on Craigslist, stayed “made by Snap-on” I thought how stupid do you have to be to believe that one. I wouldn’t give you 2 dollars for a Kennedy box I know there good for tool and die makers, but those shallow drawers are worthless in auto repair

[@bobbyu8991]

Would like to see a review of the astro nano 3/8 impact best gun I ever had at one third price of Matco

[@505fastlife6]

That is my go to impact at work don’t need a full size 3/8 gun after using it.

[@onegunsalute1202]

I gave this video a thumbs up. But I do have to say William comes in the EXACT same as bluepoint from the packaging down to the color and dimensions packaging and sockets. I only have one solid oldschool William's half inch ratchet that was a gift. But I can say bluepoint is snap ons steel formula just not made allowed to say snap on because it's not made in their usa snapon factory. One would think then William's would use this same formula if it is indeed bluepoint relabled. Feel free to chime in I like to here others thoughts and views.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Not exactly the same as tools but it is exactly the same as manufacturing tools. I worked in a couple different manufacturing plants making dog food. We made ol Roy and also made nutro. Huge difference in quality, but we used the same machines to make both. Recipes were incredibly different from one brand to the other. China is absolute SHIT when it comes to maintaining those company specifications. They cut corners like you wouldn't believe. What would ruin a company here in the USA, doesn't ruin a chinese company. Back in 2007 myself, and the three other guys doing the same job, said something was wrong with the wheat gluten we were getting from china. No one cared it was .07/lb vs .55/lb for wheat gluten out of Russell, Kansas. Fast forward a year and the company has a massive recall totaling millions of dollars, killing hundreds of dogs and cats, and eventually forcing the buyout of the company and losing 2/3 of the plants employees. What did china do? Leveled the building, murdered the ones in charge of that plant and built a new one. To say that just because a company specifies something means it is totally up to spec when the customer receives it is kinda BS. It's a best case scenario at the very best. Companies have spent millions of dollars in marketing their brand to make you believe that, but it's not the case, and it's not that simple. Price effects everything. If a company can 'get a deal' for something that is not quite up to spec but maybe not cosmetically noticeable they are going to take the deal. Not to mention the numerous times that something may be different but no one says anything in order to not 'piss someone off' or they may have to find another manufacturing plant. That shit happens every day in tool companies board rooms with CEOs and bean counters. I used to believe the same thing about snap on having higher standards than everyone else, but look at the bullshit they put their name on that sells in retail stores like Costco, menards, etc... They are a publicly traded company and it is ILLEGAL for them to put the customer before the shareholders. So in the end the shareholders are always right and not the end user. 'The customer is alway right' is the biggest marketing lie the world has ever fell for, unless you thought hillary was going to win the Whitehouse in last November's election. Right now I believe matco has something going on with their 1/2" drive sockets but it maybe a regional (Colorado) and not national problem. I have pictures but I'm waiting on the documents. Love the rants FRM. Your vid is exactly right and to the point except for 'farming and rebranding of tools' once any company relies on someone else to do their quality control for them they lose control of everything, and quality means nothing anymore.

[@Freetheworldnow]

Excellent educated comment. I support your thoughts. You may perhaps make a presentation to President Trump. People first!!

[@robertschultz9260]

Don't forget Snap On industrial where its the exact same but cheaper.

[@flatratemaster]

I didn't forget, just didn't want to add confusion of that into the discussion:)