Floatwheel ADV Pro - Issues and Fixes

Not really a review, but instead a summary of known issues and how to address them.
You can also find the latest list here:
pev.dev/t/floatwheel-known-is...

[@floatwheel]

Whole team Watching and taking notes, Yep the first batch turned out to be more bumpy than we thought, I'm very sorry about this. But already working on all the fixes. Here are some progress at fixing those problems, 1. battery drain issue, it currently drains at 0.008A and its not good, 0.008A means your board will drain in 41 days, which is not longer than a winter season, but like you said luckily we have bms protection, so it doesnt trash your battery even if they got left not charged for too long, easy fix will be plug it in wall and leave it during winter. another fix will require at least swap out the LCM module for a new one, I have already made it drain at 0.0004A now on my boards with modification on the LCM that means it will last about 800days fully charged sitting there, but still oberserving for any quirks with that mod, which is replacing the LCM bottom R6 resistor to 1206 200K resistor, requiring a hot air station, I understand most of people dont have one, so I'd just order 600 units of revisioned LCM for you to swap out, that is how I plan on solving the slow drain issue, I found it using liquid nitrogen dipping the whole ESC+LCM, and using a thermal camera, that resistor is the only hot thing during poweroff, and I replaced it with a 200k and the drain is gone. I designed the LCM with the IC's datasheet requirement (10K) turns out it is too low for real life situations, but thank god the cost is not astronomical, we can afford this recall. 2. footpad sensor ghosting issue, the issue only exist in first 80 footpads with the first batch boards, the problem is the layers being assembled using wrong type of adhesive causing water to disolve the adhesive rim around the sensor layers, we have shipped all 80 customers with new revisioned footpads, they should be able to get it in this week, the new footpad used a PET base adhesive so it is water resistant, I have tested the new ones under water for over a week, still works great. 3.BMS issue: yep we need a more advanced BMS that can talk with the vesc incase of a battery pack malfunction, at least it should slowly pushback before cut off, for this to work, we are now working on a new BMS and a new cable harness, that will allow the bms to communicate with the ESC, other than that, it will need individual cell monitoring with app, active balancing, protection parameters set up via app, and it needs to be a charge and discharge bms for sure, charge only is not ok, in event of a ignorant rider leaving the board uncharged for 3 month while the battery drained to 0, and he plug it into wall, next thing the whole house is burnt down and we on tv. so I disagree with charge only bms, use this only if you know your battery stuff. we have a working bms evaluation prototype that already does active balance+individual cell monitoring via phone at hand, the problem we have is that this bms is massive, we havent figure out a way to put this in our board, probably need to do a 3 layer board to board to board design to fit it in, it is a massive project, even bigger than the floatwheel adv itself, so allow us some time, we have seen 2 events of bms cut off during ride, it was in the first 80 boards, one vital QC process is not carried out during first batch production, which is individual cell drain monitor, we now let the baord sit in the factory for a week, test for any cell drain issue, so this will be stopped in factory and no longer be an issue in the future. but like I said new bms is being designed and we will make sure it is backward compatible with first batch boards. 4.Brittle plastic, simply was us being stupid chasing for that matt surface finish and dumped too much fiberglass in the mixture, first 300 boards will receive a whole refresh set of plastic shells(bumper set +fenderbase set) 5. Motor making UFO noises at lower speeds, easy fix is tune your zero vector frequency up or down 1khz and the noise is gone, we think this has to do with current sensor not being accurate enough in lower speeds with lower battery voltage, cant say for sure, but once I tune the zero vector frequency up a bit, its gone. 6. first 200 motors are way too torquey, they are wind to the same configuration as the hypercore actually, the reason why it feels slow compare to the GT is that it used magnets that are way too high spec, on the GT you can take one magnet out to measure, it is around 1750Gs that means it is a N30-N35 magnet, the adv is a N42H magnet, which measures 1929Gs in the center, on top of the higher grade maget this thing is thicker longer wider than the hypercore's magnet, so the flux is 1.6x hypercore, with this magnet it comes great torque, but the magnet also generate massive BEMF, so it doesnt run fast without fieldweakening, fieldweakening is basically injecting current into Q axis to create a magnet field to fight against the BEMF generated by the motor, so with 80A field weakening, you will find the motor can actually spin faster than the GT but sacrifices efficiency at higher speed, the first batch of motors will be really efficient around 20mph which is the speed I ride longer distances at. I purposely set it this way so the range is good even with a bigger ass motor, but since you guys like higher speed, doesnt hurt me to swap to 135 new design motor, it doesnt really hurt your torque tho, it just needs 20% more current to generate same torque as Batch 1 motors, so expect the ESC to run hotter than the batch 1 motors. in accelerating performance the new motor will feel more like a GT which picks up speed quite fast but with higher torque to keep your nose not scraping. That is really long essay, thank you for reading this, now ima get back to fixing first batch problems for my supporters.

[@Jdb63]

A very thorough and reassuring update Tony! What would you say the final waterproof level of the boards came out to be? Can I be comfortable riding it in the rain, or through a small puddle??

[@floatwheel]

@@Jdb63 the motor plug might need another layer of protection from dado's experiment, I'm thinking maybe badger kit + a raincoat for the motor plug or you can just soft epoxy the whole motor plug, and maybe heat and press on the smart lightbar and front and rear light windows, I don't trust them 3m vhb that much, even tho It seems to do a good job of keeping water outside, the front and rear box is solid other than those.

[@turboterry1776]

Tony and the team are legends and will soon take over the market this Board is amazing never felt anything better you have all our support moving forward 🤩 🤩 🤩 keep it up ❤️

[@freedomcaller]

​@@floatwheelnot sure if you heard yet, but people have been able to reduce the motor noises by lowering the brightness of the LEDs so i suspect there might be some interference going on.

[@floatwheel]

@@freedomcaller yep heard it too investigating right now

[@TeddyWalla]

Tony is going to watch this and make a SWEET v2! can't wait!

[@Jeans11234567]

Tony ?

[@Jdb63]

​@@Jeans11234567Cofounder and face of Floatwheel

[@shanelibeau9040]

Thanks surfdado, definitely a great honest talk about the issues. I wasn’t aware of the early motor being slower.

[@TheBoardGarage]

You should come up to Portland this weekend, for CarvePDX. I’ll be there, Mitch is going, and so is Joe. It’d be great for us all to hang out.

[@crazythegamer329]

I actually had the board shut off due to a bus issue today, Tony stated 'We will send you a board with a new BMS and a battery pack via air freight. It will take around 7-12 days for shipment'

[@crazythegamer329]

I wonder if its an updated hardware model

[@qapaMcFly]

@@crazythegamer329 same model ;)

[@hippie.matt.]

Will be interesting to see the torque and speed difference between v1 and v2 motors. I have the v1 motor and I'm happy with the acceleration and torque. 🤙

[@AlpineTaxi]

Although Dado certainly has some valid points here, I think we really have to tip the hat off to Tony for attempting such a monumental task all by himself. I think this first version is quite impressive for all things considered. It took future motion years and four versions to finally come up with the GT, when Tony is competing with the GT right off the bat. No doubt he will continue to refine and improve.. bravo….! 👏

[@aarongarrison4084]

Well to be fair though, FM had to do this from almost nothing out there like it. They almost "invented" the wheel. Floatwheel was around after VESC, and tons of third party inspiration. They had it easier. But yes, id rather support FW than give another dime to FM...

[@markysharky70]

You are EPIC sir. Thank you once again for what you do!

[@DJCheLu]

That loctite advice is important. Good stuff Dado

[@andrzejz8316]

Awesome video as usual. I have always told that I don't like the idea of dumb BMS and moreover in every balancing PEV sold commercialy communication with controller is a must, that's why I use and encourage everyone to get xlite instead of other options (I know that we still don't have a code in floatpackage to handle that, but that will come eventually). When it comes to video I don't fully agree with the statement that charge only is best practice. IMO we wire it charge only, because we don't have small enough, vesc enabled, reliable charge-discharge BMS that could take amount of amps we need for trail uphills (the ones the overheats hypercores in minutes).

[@bradleybeukes8200]

Nice detailed review...floatwheel looking good!

[@sarahdaviscc]

Also, I think you're spot on regarding speed. 30mph 48km/h is plenty fast for me, I'd rather the extra torque.

[@Zetler]

I can't imagine anyone ever going 30mph on a ride. 25mph is more than enough. Even on an ebike 30mph is just way too fast. Feels like you're going Mach 5.

[@DarthTinderalla-qm9zw]

The old people on my bike trails do 30+ on their pedal only bikes...

[@getaflattyinya]

@@DarthTinderalla-qm9zw Yeah good suspension is what allows that

[@brycestrife5605]

Thanks for this point of view. I LOVE this sport and ride onewheel. Just the pint is a beast, I am always interested in the furthering of the the sport so this product is fascinating. I would like other companies to take the corner market away from future motion.

[@deanaoxo]

Thank you for your tireless efforts. Meanwhile, that trail is not for the faint of heart~!~

[@sarahdaviscc]

Excellent overview, thanks Dado. On your point about the BMS being discharge/charge. Other than the fact that it's another potential point of failure if a BMS is programmed properly surely it is not inherently worse than direct discharge.

[@uhjyuff2095]

for a race board the bms could result in a crash. On a consumer board a quality bms is much appreciated.

[@aaronrands]

Awesome video, super informative! and you also got some Lake Calavera trail footage in there.

[@bugs.floats]

Thanks for that...great info 🤙🏻🔥🌻

[@montecitourbanfarms]

So glad I came across this video before I bought one. I’ll wait until future versions 👍🏻 I’ll stick with my gt for now

[@surfdado]

Why? You're missing out. It's not like riding through water is safer on a GT

[@esk8windsor]

Man, I kinda want a V1 motor

[@ChristopheMIREMONT]

Very useful thanks. Regarding the battery issues reported, do we know at this stage if it affects one type (pro vs standard) more than the other? Apart from riding carefully through a whole charge, is there any other way to detect potential issue?

[@scottsum1319]

Was somewhat interested in this Floatwheel cept the cryto payment stopped me. Looking back, I'm glad I didnt as there's bound to be 1st batch issues. Thanks for the update

[@LouieMingione]

Also forgot to say thank you thank you thank you! For all you've done and for the things you were going to do in the future. My number one desire is also Bluetooth connection while charging!

[@floatwheel]

damn I worked so hard for the motor to not move during charging now you guys want it the easy ways.😂😂

[@LouieMingione]

@@floatwheel Hey Tony! Thank you! You have an amazing board so do not get me wrong. BT connection while charging is not necessary. I just want to know when my battery is fully charged so I can go ride more! Love it!

[@floatwheel]

@@LouieMingione lol it can be fixed with a software update to the LCM, with the software and source code being opensource, soon people will be able to charge and bt stay connected

[@LouieMingione]

@@floatwheel Yes. Awesome. That is was @surfdado said. You truly hit it out of the park. On a weekend trip with limited vehicle space. Floatwheel made the cut (as did the pints). The GT did not!

[@JustOutHereTinkering]

I just got mine yesterday and took it for its first real ride today. Sooo much more power than the Onewheel Pint, but definitely less carvey. Feels great and stable though. mine is making the UFO noise and i was unable to get it to go away with the zero vector Frequency adjustment. Dont mind it that much though so not that worried about it. I can only run my tire at 12psi. Any more and it rubs. Also when looking at the motor parameters and the motor inductance difference i notice mine is nowhere near either of those numbers you stated, being actually around 15. I dont know what that means but its got gobs of torque and I wont be riding 30+mph so not concerned with getting over that. But im stoked to finally have mine in hand and be riding it!!! So much better than my Pint in a lot of ways.

[@BillyShredder]

Great video 👏🏼

[@vtach123]

Yay, I used legit blue Loctite I already had. Lol Great information l, thanks Dado!

[@nekkrokvlt]

Thanks for the Vidéo, definitely going to follow your channel :)

[@PapaP86]

The BSM issue sounds like a big one. Had been considering if I want to pick up one of these rather than a GT, but at this point I'm not too comfortable with modifying the hardware aspects of PEVs. Overall, how does the board compare to the GT? I've had a Pint X for almost 2 years now and really enjoy it, but want a bit bigger board for longer rides and more power wouldn't hurt. I could easily see eventually having 3-4 boards (Pint X, modded XR, GT, Floatwheel), but been eying the GT for a while now unless the right XR pops up.

[@Travis_Montgomery]

I kind of love the little noises the board makes at low speeds. I wish every EV made the "Jetsons" car noise when stopping and starting.

[@LouieMingione]

His video has it all! I checked my flux value and it was at 36.6, so I guess I have one of the first slower motors. Are there benefits to this motor over the newer one? Better off road? I don't need to go fast, but I want to know I can go fast, LOL. Also with the BMS discharge and potential shut down, is there something to be said for lower voltage cutoff values? I'm running with Nico's 54 / 50, but I know the board garage recommended 46 / 40. I care about not getting injured more than I care about not damaging the batteries...

[@surfdado]

Stick to Nico’s values - but it really doesn’t matter. The key is to respect low voltage tiltback and you don’t need to worry about any of it. All those voltage cutoffs only affect if you if you keep riding long past the low voltage tiltback

[@tzarza]

Yay! You’re cool.

[@xavicon64]

For the lights, would you be able to use the front lights and reverse them so the rear ones oppositely light up?

[@surfdado]

Sorry, I don’t understand

[@michaelmaverick2630]

What an amazing video, thank you. I'm considering the purchase of a Floatwheel ADV Pro. How do I avoid getting one of those first 200 slow motors?

[@surfdado]

You already have. All new motors are the faster ones

[@wrybread]

Great video, thank you. It's been awhile, can I ask what you use as your daily OneWheel driver these days? Both on and off road ideally? And I'm wondering how the Floatwheel has aged? I'm pretty amazed by how durable my XR is longterm, I live on the beach and it's perpetually covered in sand and other than a few grip tape replacements and a tire, it's still rock solid after 2 years of constant abuse. But a bit more torque especially off road sure would be nice. I'm considering VESCing it, but also of course considering a Floatwheel.

[@surfdado]

I ride mostly trails so I prefer my XR based custom builds. To me the Floatwheel is a great street cruiser, and maybe light trails. But it overheats way too quickly on harder trails (most of my local trails)

[@wrybread]

@@surfdado Interesting and thanks. Any thoughts on how a Floatwheel overheats compared to a GT on those harder trails? And psyched to VESC my XR.

[@surfdado]

@@wrybread the motor crushes the hypercore in thermal performance but the controller is the weak link in the floatwheel

[@wrybread]

@@surfdado Is there a VESC controller that you think is an improvement?

[@surfdado]

@@wrybread plenty controllers out there but none would easily fit into a floatwheel. Tony’s V2 controller should solve a lot of the existing issues

[@gergosnoo]

thanks!

[@gergosnoo]

locktight part is crazy

[@MaxInNewZealand]

Ouch on the discharge BMS. The last gen Floatwheel would cut out on me all the time due to this and I wouldn't buy it again because of this. Hopefully the limit is really high on the ADV

[@surfdado]

Limit is 80A, so from that side we're good - it only gets scary when you're at 100% charge, there's no much margin there with regen currents, especially with the slightly saggier non-pro battery

[@keithbenton9722]

Have you fixed it yet? Also how is it working upsidedown at the end?

[@Neilly671]

100% we know there would be issues!! I know Tony will take care of it =D

[@byomann]

Do you use loctite on plastics ? I juste received my board and i dont know if i do use loctite on plastics. I read on reddit, loctite eats plastics. Thanks you

[@uhjyuff2095]

Did the bms shut off power or did the water short out the motor/controller?

[@surfdado]

The BMS had no clue - the water in the motor connector apparently fried something in the ESC. Working with Tony to diagnose/fix

[@floatwheel]

​@@surfdado it is the stm32 IO pins got damaged from the water in the plug, packing a new ESC for dado now , and thinking how this doesnt happen in the future. clearly the water got into the motor connector and briging the high voltage shunt to the hall sensor port on the esc and it killed the stm32's IO pins on temp and hall 123, the plug might need anorher layer of protection,I'm thinking maybe a condom for the plug itself, any ideas are welcomed.

[@ignasias]

@@floatwheel Might want to take down your "waterproof testing" video. This thing is clearly not as "waterproof" as your testing suggests

[@vtach123]

Is the Life Miles fix something the average user can resolve, or is that an advanced fix? Mine started with the 170+ miles, too. I do seem to have the newer motor.

[@surfdado]

I’ve just pushed a fix to the float package. See FAQ#110 on Discord

[@vtach123]

@@surfdado worked perfectly, thank you!

[@toniivancic907]

19:38 You are highlighting the wrong value in VESC tool - "motor inductance difference" instead of "motor flux linkage" right below it

[@MrDmadness]

Mod that bms and make the low voltage trigger IN the controller, this way when the cint. Gets low it alarms, pushback etc. This would be an easy solution .. no? Ha, at low speeds it reminds me of the sound a recognizer makes ( tron reference )

[@crazythegamer329]

I had my board making the same noise as 13:57, Tony said to change zero vector frequency between '26 27 28 29 30' and mine went away almost completely at 30

[@surfdado]

Yes, this is standard procedure to try those ZVFs but for me it remained equally loud but changed the sound effect between Star Wars, Rave, and 2-stroke engine 😂

[@AlbertoNoys]

Did you ever find out what broke when you went through the water?

[@surfdado]

Water got into the motor connector and killed my ESC - but also the bearings couldn’t handle the water. So the stator is rusty now. Basically needed motor and ESC replaced. Only the battery survived undamaged

[@AlbertoNoys]

@@surfdado Ohhhh, now I understand why everyone is putting bearing covers and greasing the connector. And the picture of a rusty stator must be yours then, it all makes sense now haha. Thanks, Dado.

[@auden_builds]

Surfing the dado i see

[@qapaMcFly]

ADV lights are brighter than gt we tested that

[@Zetler]

Good to know. Tony mentioned that his lights are above GT's specs.

[@me_josh]

Did you fix this yet?

[@bookmark2846]

High idle drain is a big annoyance for me and others who own multiple PEVs.

[@Corevena]

Great i got a really slow motor... no wornder it didnt feel that fast wtf

[@douglasyoung3992]

A friend has one incoming, will pass on your data.

[@erosion01]

Surfdado

[@Kay0Bot]

Put soldering iron to those hub bolts first

[@surfdado]

Tried a heat gun on high for 30 seconds, made no difference

[@Kay0Bot]

@@surfdado 500 C directly on the bolt for 2-3 minutes. It works on bolts with red Loctite

[@surfdado]

@@Kay0Bot oh damn, that’s a lot of heat to a component that’s thermally connected to the stator. But I guess it could work. Hopefully I will never need to do it again 😂

[@Kay0Bot]

@@surfdado oh good point. i think 230c is the red loctite heat limit, so 300C for 2 minutes should work.

[@floatwheel]

@@surfdado I had to torch the axle for 30seconds for the bolt to get off, man those aged loctite is strong.

[@eugeniustheodidactus8890]

*Very disappointing to see that the BMS can cause a nose dive.* I expect this from FM, but not from FW.

[@shawn1676]

I just wait for my xr to die before upgrading. All i knoe is i will never give Future motion money

[@dezh2544]

Issues? Nooooooo… No way 😂

[@eekdestroy5329]

The more I see of the ADV the uglier my GT is looking. I can’t wait to get one of these bad boys.