Flow Profiling on Flair 58 | Blooming Espresso, Londinium

[@LifestyleLab_]

If you'd like to download the SEP flow templates I used, the files are available here. Download them on the device that has SEP installed, or email them to yourself. You can then choose to open the .csv file with SEP instead of excel: Londinium: www.dropbox.com/sh/w1ysdvn1281vtpw/AAAfBr0O3FgMdPaBzcdWrANUa?dl=0 Blooming: www.dropbox.com/sh/v52hcmhvv40y5hc/AAAAm1-ins6l9BESoDkNZ_53a?dl=0

[@brandonrohrer2245]

Is there a trick to this on the iPhone? I can’t get either to save.

[@martinwoodfilms]

I downloaded them to files on iPhone. How do I import?

[@JasonHoogerhyde]

@@martinwoodfilms ever figure it out?

[@martinwoodfilms]

@@JasonHoogerhyde no I havent

[@hikathyleigh]

@@JasonHoogerhyde no luck with the iPhone either 😢

[@MrKerner1111]

I've been trying to convince everyone a manual espresso setup is by far the best learning tool and bang for buck in the cup. When compared to an entry level 9bar machine, a flair is light years ahead. Interestingly enough, I find people tend to want the shiny machine on their bar even at the cost of worse shots, greater footprint, more energy usage, maintenance and the like. Great content

[@LifestyleLab_]

Convenience is a big factor, but the Flair 58 has made huge strides in that area!

[@MrKerner1111]

@@LifestyleLab_ great point, trading off quality in the cup for workflow. I suspect l sometimes ego and vanity for lack of more appropriate terms play a big role. An espresso machine with a presence can be really nice to own.

[@gray_gogy]

@@MrKerner1111 also the Flair doesn't have built in steaming which is huge for most people.

[@MrKerner1111]

@@gray_gogy very valid point, I'm specifically referring to espresso brewing

[@donutwindy]

I think I want both. In a hurry, lazy me wants shiny simple latte making machine, while it's a weekend, or I have really great coffee beans me wants to flair it up! Or one could get a shiny lever machine, but that costs more than both options combined. One day, I will have everything including an espresso room. I only have the basic bambino, but lazy me is happy.

[@hssnov]

I love flair 58 too much and i am a PhD in control systems. For us to find an optimized profile is impossible due to multiple factors especially the coffee type. I did this in my lab in university so it was scientific environment. I did optimization and i started with 6 types of coffee i roasted them with a profile roasting. First i started with 80 degree Celsius to remove humidity then increase the temperature of the system i designed myself. I reached optimal medium-dark roast because it's my favorite (this is a biased method). Then i tried 5 types of grindings using flair royal grinder ( 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7)then jeep testing with fixed pressure. Then i selected one coffee type with one grinding ( 4, Columbia supreme). Later i started to optimize the pressure with different profiles. Still under studying. In conclusion For me a 5 bar for 1 gram liquid then waits for 10 seconds then 7.5bar till i fill 32grams from 18 grams of coffee is my favorite "till now".

[@Vergillo]

Hey, any updates on the profiles you're using now? I just bought the machine myself and I wonder what I might try and seeing your comment made me ask as I don't want to wonder in the dark. Thanks

[@Bran1998]

Any update on this?

[@hssnov]

@@Bran1998 I apologize but this research project is very intense and requires a full time studying and experimenting. However, i suggest just follow simple on web recipe which is 1- coffee type ( any fresh local roasting mix). 2- grind based on experiment but try from finest. 3- water temperature less than 90c more than 80c. Make sure your water is not contain too much minerals. Also your altitude effect the water boiling point. 4- pressing technique after applying the water inside main chamber press slowly to 3 bars until first drop then increase the pressure smoothly until you reach 8 (try with 7, 7.5, 8, 8.5, and 9) until you reach the correct wieght ratio 18gram to 40 gram. ...... As a final statment this optimisation requires a full time reseaech with appropriate tools and equipments. For me it's not a finical problem as time problem. If i consider all factors in the optimisation then for a single data set i need around a month. Good luck and have a noce coffee experience.

[@hssnov]

@@Vergillo see other reply on same comment

[@Vergillo]

@@hssnov Thank you very much man o/

[@williamknapp4917]

Can anyone suggest compatible bluetooth scales less expensive than the Acaia? US$250 is just a bridge too far.

[@BrianQuan]

FYI on Londinium if you target a higher ramp up flow rate (like 3ml/s) it actually works really well w/light roasts! It's basically the most flexibile profile out there that gives you great results across roast levels as long as you adjust PI (depending on grinder) and ramp up flowrate to roast level.

[@LifestyleLab_]

Thanks for the tip Brian! It has always fascinated me how faster flow rates work better with lighter roasts, case and point the Allonge and even turbo shots! Lots of chemistry to still be understood in the coffee world

[@MrKerner1111]

Hey Brian, I'd love a vid showing how you typically tune Londinium for specific beans.

[@justmemikey]

hey, faster flow rate for light roasts would imply a shorter extraction time right? im asking cuz the graph suggests 30 sec

[@pascalsimonskoufos8066]

Wow huge improvement on my lighter roasts on my pro 2y thanks so match. Greetings from Greece

[@awint123]

Wow, thanks didn't know you could set previous shots as a reference will try it!! Sure I can find images of these profiles online whereas a starting point, and once dialed as you said I will have a reference for more consistent quality shots.

[@LifestyleLab_]

Not only that, but I can share the exact reference curves I used in this video! See the pinned comment

[@robertmullins9639]

This is fascinating!! Thanks for the demo and info! I hope you so more like this!!!

[@wakeawaken430]

I have another profile for light roasts 15" preinfussion at low pressure, then 6" at 11 bar, and then 9 bar and less for the rest of the extraction Light roasts needs more pressure to extract, and off course higher water temp

[@geekmusicmaker]

@Lifestyle Lab thank you for this enlightening video on profiles and lever machines. i understand flow rate and pressure are correlated, is this how you follow the Decent Profiles ? i mean : is getting the water flow in the right spot incidently making pressure in the right spot ? You do not use a pressure sensor in the video, is it dispensable to follow profiles ? Also i don't understand why you had to stagg scales in order to create a profile you could follow on the smart espresso profiler app and not directly import and follow the decent profile on the smart espresso profiler app ? Thank you for your answers.

[@paskoh]

Did they taste the same?

[@edipisreks5535]

My SEP has shipped (getting fittings for 58 and Pro2). I mean, I’m already doing this stuff, but I guess now I can see exactly how non-precise I am.

[@LifestyleLab_]

Awesome!

[@bsayles100]

You actually can export reference profiles with the SEP app. They don't have a library or any forum that you can share on but if lifestyle labs is willing I think he could share those reference curves

[@EdGodoyPlana]

I have the Smart Profiler transducer for the Flair 58 and use it with the Acaia Lunar scale and the SE profiler app and you can share the shot profile to someone else via email for someone to use it by uploading it to the SE profiler app on their iPhone.

[@LifestyleLab_]

Hey Eduardo! How do you go about uploading a shared shot to the SEP app?

[@EdGodoyPlana]

@@LifestyleLab_ I tried to respond to your question and I don’t know what happened that I can see it here on KZbin after I sent it! Let me try responding again. To send someone a shot profile you have saved on you SE profiler app , select it from the history. When you select it you will see on the bottom of the shot a “share”, select share, then select to share it via email or send it as a message to an iPhone to the person you want to share the shot. The person you send it to has to have the SE app on their iPhone. They can then open the email and select to open the attached file you sent with the SE Profiler app. Try it! If you send me your email I can see you a random shot to see if you can open it. Do you want to chat via Instagram to go over the process?

[@LifestyleLab_]

Oh very interesting! No wonder I couldn’t figure it out. I’ll give that a try :) Thanks for sharing!

[@EdGodoyPlana]

@@LifestyleLab_ you can share from the IPhone but the sharing is not working from an IPad . The SE Profiler app partially works on an IPad but I asked why I could not share a profile that was stored on an iPad and the response I got back was that the app was not designed to specifically work with an IPad .

[@bassalovitch]

Great video! Was about to give up on light roasts on my Cafelat Robot, but approximating the blooming espresso profile you showed saved the day! The sourness really has gotten down and a lot more manageable. However, would you know of a bluetooth scale that would fit under the Robot? The feet are 10 cm apart. Thanks a lot

[@LifestyleLab_]

The Acaia Lunar may barely fit, it’s right around 10cm. Otherwise you may have to go for the Pyxis. Very compact Bluetooth scales are still quite hard to find

[@josepascual3535]

What basket are you using to maintain the pressure on the flair? I am having a few difficulties maintaining pressure. Keep up the good content!

[@LifestyleLab_]

Less to do with basket, more to do with grinding fine enough. I find the Flair 58 takes about 2 steps finer on the Niche than a classic 9 bar machine to maintain a good flow rate

[@eldarnissan3894]

What kind of scale is using in video?

[@LifestyleLab_]

Acaia Lunar

[@back_to_the_bike8820]

thanks for the video. Did you compare the cup result of the Flair 58 with the Cafelat Robot?

[@LifestyleLab_]

I don’t have a Robot, but I believe Lance may have done that comparison. From a workflow perspective the Flair is superior without a doubt.

[@back_to_the_bike8820]

@@LifestyleLab_ the workflow is very good on the Robot, maybe it's better on the Flair, I don't know, I've never tried it (but it's very tempting), but what counts for me is above all the result in the cup. The problem is that here in France (and even more widely in Europe), flair is sold at too high a price.

[@Agent-cipher-6120]

I would argue if you pay close attention to the scale and the timer, the Bluetooth scale is kinda optional. But why make life harder? Well, when you are as broke as I am

[@LifestyleLab_]

Absolutely it’s optional! But flow rate is generally a tough thing to eyeball. Tough, but not impossible. And as always, if you’re enjoying the shot you’re getting, who really cares? If you have the option, it is really interesting though :)

[@EdGodoyPlana]

By using the Bluetooth scale with the SE profiler app you can not only see on your iPhone the graph but you can save the profile if you liked it to later use that same profile in the future. If you have the Bluetooth Smart profiler transducer that is compatible with the app you can also track on the app the pressure profile all at the same time! It’s great!

[@antho1182]

@@EdGodoyPlana With only acaia lunar scale and SEP app , we can see the profil pressure but not in real time ? we must transducer for that ? thanks

[@EdGodoyPlana]

@@antho1182 you need the Bluetooth transducer to be able to see the pressure and track it in the app.

[@noberubes]

I can’t get it to work on my iPhone. I have the file on my phone with the app and no luck.

[@JasonHoogerhyde]

Ever get it working?

[@mrkhan5138]

App doesn‘t work with felicita arc

[@thomasmullen5589]

Can this be done on a regular Flair rather than the 58? I'm assuming recipe would need modding slightly due to basket size, given my best results seem to be at the 14-15g mark?

[@LifestyleLab_]

Can absolutely be done on other Flair or other lever machines :) Like you said, just tweak the recipe slightly based on your dose / coffee choice

[@thomasmullen5589]

@@LifestyleLab_ thanks! Will attempt them at some point this coming week! I appreciate it won't be as consistent as the Decent! Thanks for the heads up on this, does look really interesting.

[@HarbourPoland]

Hi, everyone. Please, help me. Would it be sufficient to buy only a bluetooth scale (e.g. Acaia Lunar - or maybe you know sth. cheaper which fits under Flair 58 and also works with SEP app?) and then pair it with SEP app on Android phone and, finally, it'll allow me to play with flow profiles? I don't want to buy that pressure gauge with BT which allows also for pressure profiling, so I buying Acaia and installing app will only let me intruduce flow profiles to my espresso rutine? Sorry for my question, but I don't want to make a mistake buying just a scale and then to realize that I also have to buy pressure gauge with BT transmitter for another 'quite a few bucks'. Thanks.

[@LifestyleLab_]

Yes, a Bluetooth scale that works with the app is all that was used here

[@HarbourPoland]

@@LifestyleLab_ Thanks a lot and, btw, happy New Year! :-)

[@danymeeuwissen5973]

For some reason, my muscle memory starts declining pressure once I go over 1,5ml/s.