1.6 VS 1.8! Which do you want in your Miata? (FM Live)

[@Ragingcroc]

The best miata engine is the one you have.

[@dracolich345]

🥰

[@PhaseNoscope]

Mines blown up though 🥲

[@dylancourville8708]

You will feel better one day…Once you replace that motor. Sorry for your loss.

[@paulbfields8284]

Exactly right… love my 2 L

[@kinanalhawat6753]

​@@PhaseNoscope a sign from god to put a V12 TDI in her

[@beauthestdane]

I've had my '93 for 30 years now, still a blast to drive. It's completely stock.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Miata Is Always The Answer. ;)

[@lilmike2710]

[@captainmikek8695]

​@Lil Mike Welcome, I have a 91 as well. Love it too

[@lilmike2710]

@@captainmikek8695 👍 I drive a big truck for a living and have been in the road for nearly 3 weeks now. I'm totally jonsing to get home and drive it. 😂 Mustang watching me washing it then driving it away:: **Hello darkness my old friend** Idfk... 😁 Tryin to make a meme in a comment section.

[@teutonalex]

Me too. Had my 91 since 1998. Love it.

[@lilmike2710]

I came across a deal on one last week (91 1.6) that I couldn't pass up. And I totally get the Miata thing now. I couldn't stop driving the thing. 👍

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Miata Is Always The Answer! ;)

[@-Just_Justin-]

I have a 2000 NB1 1.8L with an m45. I'll say it's a blast to drive. Alot of people aim for HP number when in reality torque really needs to be considered. I love having that bottom end usable power.

[@kentworch]

I'd personally have to say I'd stick 1.8 BP engine myself. It has torque across the entire tachometer especially when you advance the ignition timing a couple degrees. It's one hell of an engine and runs forever stock. Strangely enough, the car I have is a 97 Kia sephia that came stock with the 1.8 be Mazda engine. Still original engine running and in pretty good shape with over 340,000 miles on it even though the rest of the car around it is falling apart and the wheels are falling off. I definitely haven't babied it either. Lots of power sliding, lots of burnouts, and bounced off that 7,500 rev limiter too many times to count. I kept it stock and naturally aspirated. Last time I changed the timing belt I inspected the camshaft lobes and still see the factory hatch pattern on all 16 valves. They still look new. I pushed it hard, but also change the oil regular with the Mobil 1 full synthetic high mileage 10-w40 oil. Only problems that engine ever had were harmonic balancer, leaking oil pan and and valve cover gaskets. Front and rear main seals still don't leak, and still doesn't burn a drop of oil. I'd personally stick to the BP 1.8 naturally aspirated for what I use it for as longevity is likely to be better. Little bit bigger engine doesn't have to work as hard to pull the car around.

[@CptPandy-tj9ty]

I got a 1.6 with a light weight flywheel so getting to 6k rpm is easy and feels zippy I love it

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Those engines love to rev!

[@TorquingcarsOnline]

I own an '02 NB VVT and a '91 NA6, and flat out, I think they're about as quick as each other in a straight line. However, the NA6 only comes alive after 4k rpm (I think my exhaust has actually created a hole in my torque curve below that), while the NB rides it's torque wave better. Both rev to around 7,200 rpm (I'm in South Africa, so we got the JDM spec NB2) and are fun in different ways. The NB is still my track darling, but the NA is a great experience to enjoy. Also, both run the same times at autocross.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Mazda has done a good job at keeping the fun of the Miata over the years, but the original will always hold a special place in our hearts!

[@WintyrV]

I'm building my 1.6 to be a rally car, driving it around in winter has been super fun, wasn't able to take it ice racing this year though. Difficult trying to balance how hard I try to keep the car clean and driving it around in all that salt though. Always felt like it sounds like a WRC car when buzzing the limiter, especially through tunnels. Definitely have more fun in those places than my 2015 STI, lmao.

[@biggboysouth]

NA 1.8 bottom end with ported NB2 head, Individual Throttle bodies running on Megasquirt ECU. I'd like to argue that's the best miata experience 😉

[@Jeremy-kg1zr]

What's the difference between the NA and NB bottom end?

[@biggboysouth]

@@Jeremy-kg1zr the NB2 bottom ends are better for a few reasons, higher flow oil pump and higher compression pistons from factory and stronger crank support. My original comment was just me being goofy wanting to share my build. I have an NA and found a good deal on a NB VVT head and swapped over to it. NB1 bottom end is essentially the same as an NA bottom end but it has slightly higher compression pistons.

[@gregscott989]

My '91 NA had a bad engine so I got a 1.8 L from a '94 wreck and got FM's kit for putting a 1.8 liter into the '91. Everything fit and worked well. I live in the city so I love the extra torque for driving around town. It will still rev to the 7200 rpm red line that's on the original '91 but that extra torque is really handy. Plus the '91 was a little lighter. Nice combination....

[@scottchamberlain5594]

Have had 1.6 Miata, 1.8 swaps, and blowers on both. After all these years, I'm driving a 1993 LE with a 1.6, because, yes, it is the better sports car experience. My wife has a 2019 ND RF GTS. Had the chance to drive Palmer in the cars back to back. With only a set of street/race tires, the LE was running similar lap times to the ND, even with the stock Bilstein suspension. The LE was a lot more fun, IMHO. With stick tires, and low power, the NA can be run flat out. With more power, and lots of body roll, you just have to drive it differently. One thing you didn't mention is longevity. In my experience, at about 150k, you start putting a little oil in the 1.8. I've had multiple 1.6 NAs sail past 200k, running like new. You got those noisey cam followers in the 1.6, don't recall that being a 1.8 issue. I never realised how different these two engines are, because it is so easy to swap them. Front engine stuff interchanges, and there are lots of material on doing the swap. Essentially, you enf up with a big engined 1.6, that the 1.6 electronics support. Great presentation, Keith! Still have my U.M.N. sticker from the '92 red that I crashed at Pocono during MMN.

[@RideShootDrink]

Love my 93 NA6!

[@LateNightCable]

My only experience is with my ‘99 1.8 and I can see how it has the low down torque that apparently seems lacking in the 1.6. And also how a 1.6 might want to rev more. But I suspect a lightweight flywheel really livens things up in any case, and it’s one of the modifications I look forward to most. Usable torque, in a more free spinning engine should be a blast.

[@robertsimpson22]

My '97 U.K spec 90 horsepower car is now a 1.8, thanks to your conversion kit...a big improvement, I have to say....

[@chrisdooley1184]

Wow I bet that bump in horsepower and torque transforms the car just a bit. Cheers mate enjoy it

[@st5rk]

​@@chrisdooley1184the EU 1.6 "90hp" isn't really 90hp, it's closer to 110hp stock. Swapping in regular 1.6 cams, an rx7 AFM and a lightweight flywheel bumped it up to 122hp for me. I have since added a speeduino so I could tune the ignition map and get rid of that AFM altogether and it feels even faster now, but I haven't been on the dyno yet to get a number.

[@chrisdooley1184]

@@st5rk are those figures at the wheels or crank? Sounds like you’re doing all the right things especially getting rid of that AFM! You got a channel or instagram where I can see and follow your build?

[@st5rk]

@@chrisdooley1184Crank. I'm in EU they measure at the crank for some reason. No channel or anything sorry. I'm baby stepping towards a turbo and getting all the supporting mods first and getting used to tuning the standalone on N/A for now

[@alexismendoza1545]

@@st5rk 1.6s make around 95 to the wheels, 115 to the crank

[@antonyingram]

Thanks for the book recommendation, from you mentioning it to me paying for copies of both must have been less than a minute… 😂

[@twistiepillowzjr.9751]

I noticed he really didn't elaborate on the 1.6 long nose versus the 1.6 short nose that would have been nice to know because that was also a motor in between all of this that he can compare to the money and pass that might be interchangeable between the both one sixes

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Other than the nose of the crankshaft, there are no notable differences between the 1990-91 and 1991-93 1.6 engines. The only parts that are different are the crankshaft and the parts that interact directly with the nose - oil pump, crank seal, accessory pulley and timing belt pulley.

[@cam3002]

I race in SCCA's STL (Super Touring Light) class, the 1.6 has a significant weight advantage per the rules. Besides, I already had a 1.6 SM that I converted over to STL so that is what I race.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Both great reasons to choose 1.6!

[@johnevans4827]

Crazy this was uploaded the same day that I finished up the wiring for a 1.8 VVT swap into my '90 🤞🏻

[@kylelambert1672]

Around when I first got my 91 back in 05, one of the parts guys at the dealership I worked at them, said there is a specific very early intake camshaft the top level racers put in the 1.6 for more power. He was a stock Miata class racer

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

First we’ve heard of that rumor. Sounds like racer talk :)

[@xxshamwowxx797]

My car is a 1992 1.8 swap. And so far I love it. But its also the only miata I've owned or driven. So I have no 1.6 experience. However the block out of my car came with it and I've been tempted to go back lol

[@schakalicious6023]

A lighter flywheel and maybe some slightly more aggressive cams for the 1.8 is what i would do. Easier and cheaper than rebuilding and swapping the 1.6 and it’ll make it feel just as responsive. I have a 1990 that started as a 1.6, and now has an nb2 vvt motor. I also have a stock 97. So i have basically experienced every BP iteration. There is a slight difference in the responsiveness of 1.6 vs 1.8 but it’s not worth the effort of swapping. I think the difference is overstated Plus my neighbors like me better now that I have a bit of torque and don’t need to constantly be above 4000 rpm to make any power

[@travyboy5947]

I like the 1.6. as long as it's the later one with the bigger crank bolt. Revs to a million billion RPM, it's reliable, easy to work on, very little electronics, they usually get good mpg, and they sound awesome. I LOVED my mostly stock 93 1.6. drove like a snowmobile. It was so much fun, and I won my fair share of (illegal) impromptu Street races 😉

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

@travyboy5947 There's one very dedicated 1.6 fan in our ranks!

[@dudu86240]

I'm a 1.6 guy and love to rev it but let's be honest, it's massively underpowered. It's now M62 supercharged and I've discovered a new car, still a great handling with now a lot of torque and power.

[@Jeremy-kg1zr]

Still having fun revving it out constantly while you drive it to work, around town, etc?

[@dudu86240]

@@Jeremy-kg1zr it’s now turbocharged, TD04 Kraken kit and it’s even better ! I can now hit the rev limiter in the fifth gear 😂 It’s very responsive and at 5000rpm the engine has another face, very funny 😁 I should upload soon a video I did on the Nordschleife three weeks ago.

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

HOWdy F-M, ... Thanks for the FACTS & COMPARISONS. 1993 "NA" 1.6 MIATA (automatic transmission) COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA ...

[@longbow1997]

Too bad i couldn't catch the live show, but you mentioned it in the beginning a bit at @3:50. The mazda zl-ve is a 1.5l vvt engine based on the 1.6l miata block that looks a lot like the 1.8 vvt system. I know some forum posts have been made on the head swap to make a 1.6 vvt engine but I don't think anyone has completed one yet, I haven't checked in a bit. Have you guys tried playing with parts from different mazda cars to see what fits? Would that be a thing you guys would do in the, hopefully near, future? Could be cool/interesting to make the 1.6 more competitive / efficient.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

We don’t have any plans to explore parts bin upgrades for the 1.6, but we know there are some clever people working on it.

[@fooksoonliew2551]

Being driven a 1.6 and 1.8 back to back, the 1.8 definitely feels lazy and less 'responsive'. What I'm currently experimenting with my NA8, chuck on a NB6 flywheel and a Maxim works exhaust manifold, ARC intake Air box, the car feels more lively than before and I'm pretty happy with that. Next thing to tweak I might be looking at the camshafts. Do you have any recommendations if I'm about to retain the hydraulic lifters?

[@fearofchicke]

I believe you can modify an exhaust cam and replace your intake cam with the modified exhaust cam. Hope that points you in the right direction.

[@two40zsx]

I feel engine displacement has a lot to do with people talking about rpm powerband where I feel a very big part of is engine block deck height and rod to stroke ratio for example a standard honda b16 vs the b16 civic type r. type r engine had the same deck height and even longer rods than the standard b16.

[@pontiacg445]

Fun fact, 1.6 and 1.8 miata have the same exact rods. The 1.8 is just stretched and bored. Mazda is not honda, so they kinda sucked at making engines. The 1.6 was already a bored 1.3, stolen from commuter cars.

[@guiguitonicmotorsport]

I have a Europe nb 1.6 with nitrous wet system direct port. I love my car because is not the most faster car in my drag catégorie "Et sportman", But !! She's regular and she's give me a smile when n2o kick. 1.6 it's simple and economy engine. Love miata .❤❤❤❤

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Smiles per mile are the best indication you have a good car!

[@guiguitonicmotorsport]

@@FlyinMiataVideo ;-) yes of course .

[@codwizard7526]

I like the non vvti 1.6

[@mastercricket7626]

i think as long as it is MIATA then that is the answer to all questions lol peace and love to all keep it rad stay sfe and build on ... ps i drive a forged boosted 1.6 and love it but full standalone made a insane diff in the way the car acts to the tune but when u going to standalone that is usually a big commitment and step and not for most ppl just looking a lil fun ... n e ways to everyone just enjoy it as that is what mazda intended for the miata anyways , smiles per gallon over all

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

That sounds like a fun ride! Miatas are fun out of the box, but are always the best when customized to fit their owners!

[@mastercricket7626]

@@FlyinMiataVideo you are definitely right there yal and I love this lil thing its like a go cart for adults 😆 peace n love guys keep it rad stay safe and build on so u can keep supply the miata community with that juicy knowledge friends.. peace ✌

[@aygwm]

1.8 with 1.6 flywheel, best of both worlds

[@HyperspeedMedia]

@flyin' Miata .. you guys better shut the comment section off on this video.. LOL ahaha

[@onlywenilaugh6589]

Well, the company that sells turbo kits has been out of stock for 3 years or more now for NB so.....

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Working on it. It's hurting us more than it's hurting you! And we've definitely shipped a bunch out in the past 3 years while you weren't looking...

[@nic1586]

short nose 1.6 gang i find its a better car to mod the driver as you have to be in the revs more to make it handle correctly its a good bridge before getting more power but to be fair ive never properly driven the 1.8 hard so maybe thats the same i just imagine having to be more forcefull but at the same time more precise with the revs on the 1.6 probably just spouting bs tho

[@helloyt4799]

While the 1.8 does have a forged crank in my experience the 1.6 takes boost better as the stroke is shorter and dosent bend rods as easily

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

For a street or dual purpose 1.8 car, we suggest forged rods and pistons once you get close to 300whp. The cranks are forged from the factory.

[@matthewmorello9400]

I had a 1993 1.6 and a 1996 1.8. that 1.6 was bolted together different man.

[@mitchellgast7272]

Keith....Bit off topic but....Please do a piece on the blue "455" that is in the shop for the last while. This is of specific interest to me as my Miatas are all driven primarily on gravel or unmaintained gravel and dirt "roads", both in northern Canada and Mexico. Although I'm not an "offroad Miata" guy, so to speak, my cars do see tens of thousands of km off pavement every year so offroad/rally mods are of great interest to me. Keep up the great work!

[@graham_lewis]

I believe that they have done a video covering that car in the past. should be in a playlist on their channel

[@mitchellgast7272]

@@graham_lewis Thanks I'll dig around>

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Here you go! kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHTPaqmLoJV2msU

[@mitchellgast7272]

@@FlyinMiataVideo Thanks! Going through all the older videos now looking for all the tidbits I missed.

[@38tech]

We are all slow, but I bought a nb2 for a reason. Lol

[@fentuz]

So if the advantage of the 1.6 is a more sport car /lotus characteristic, is possible to give that characteristic to a 1.8 (well 1840) ? basically, quick the low end OEM 1.8 torque but get the easy raging reviness of the 1.6. My guess is higher lift cams and lighter weight flywheel. Other advantage of 1.6 is racing series limited to 1.6L (like old elan) or sportscar with 1.8 limit. 1840cc is not allowed in 1800cc races.

[@sublunacy]

if you tune the pre throttle body intake tubing on 1.6 there is no lowend power loss but you might lose power on the topend.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Most bolt-ons that offer more power in a certain RPM will loose some power in other area but the Skunk2 intake manifold might be the exception.

[@lynndonharnell422]

I have an NA and have heard that the box and rear end can't handle turbo level power and am better off changing both for NB gear. Comments??

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

It really depends on how you drive it. For spirited driving with our Stage 1 Turbo kit, you shouldn't have an issue with the rest of your driveline. If you're tracking the car frequently, you'll probably need to swap the diff and maybe even the transmission at some point.

[@JETZcorp]

MZR Is Always The Answer Including the 7200rpm question, btw. This boat has revs.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

We are actually big fans of the NC, just need to get more of them on our channel!

[@ISR403]

NA with a nb2 is my take

[@bleachvssonic]

So what if you have a NA8 car and have a ton of 1.6l engines laying around? Would it make sense to go ahead and throw the 1.6l in that shell, or would you just find another 1.8 at that point?

[@schakalicious6023]

The 1.8 nas are a few hundred lbs heavier. The diff is also geared slightly longer. I think it would feel really slow with a 1.6. A boosted 1.6 would definitely still be quick in an NA8 chassis however

[@gigi9467]

Newer Is usually bette guys goes for The engine and car

[@lukahomersham9826]

My JDM nb 1.8 6 speed revs to 7500 rpm from factory. However I know that this isn’t common

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

We are a US-based company, so we don't have quite as much insight into what was done in Japan over the years. Thanks.

[@thegamingguy1]

Great presentation man! Covering a topic like this all in one take is not easy haha

[@JupiterxBlues]

Two questions regarding the 1.8 forged cranks: 1. About how much average torque can the stock forged crank hold before breaking? 2. Also, if one had a max goal of 250ft-lbs of torque to the wheels and still be reliable, would only forged connecting rods be needed? Or the pistons as well?

[@aygwm]

I believe the 500hp Miata still has a stock crank. They’re very stout. You’ll break other things first

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Crank breakage just isn’t a thing. It’s far from the weak point. You can reach your torque goal reliably with stock internals.

[@alexmessina3383]

Really interesting stuff. Thnx. I wld be v keen to know what the original 1.6 factory cam valve timing settings were for Intake Opening/Closing and Exhaust Opening/Closing … wonder if u guys have that info??

[@DavesWoodFloors]

What about long nose wobble or short I have a 92 that had the wobble

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

The 1992 had the same crank nose design as the 1.8 cars did. The wobble is either an undertorqued crank bolt or a bit of runout in the accessory pulley.

[@francoguillen25]

Full bushing replacement video please 🙏

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

We're shooting it right now!

[@kylelambert1672]

What kind of gains can you see from changing the 1.6 from batch injection to sequential

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Mazda did that for California cars in 1993. It’s not really a performance increase, although the fact that you need an aftermarket ecu to make it work means you’ll get some power gains there.

[@hpautostyle]

What’s your opinion on the NB6 engine? A lot of the Japanese NB Miata’s I see on auctions are the 1.6 and I am curious to see how the newer 1.6 compares to the older NA6 motor

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

We've never had any of the post-1993 1.6s in our shop, so we really can't provide much of an educated opinion.

[@OFeeliamyhinny]

What ever boosts your inner creep

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

It really is just a matter of personal preference, but there are definite differences between the feel and experience of the two! :)

[@2008trebor]

Since your talking about all the different engines out there in the Miata which year engine do you think miata got it right as far as engine performance?

[@pocok5000]

Is this difference between the 1.6 and 1.8 present for the nbs?

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

We've never had our hands on a 1.6 NB, so we aren't too sure how they stack up.

[@GoldCardHunt]

Do you sell motors? I was told my 1995 Miata needs a new motor 😢

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

@GoldCardHunt We don't, sorry! You could try contacting some of the businesses on this list (help.flyinmiata.com/does-flyin-miata-sell-used-parts-HJ6UkPUT8) to see if they have any available, though.

[@brocktonbensch1356]

Long story short he said that the 1.6 is far superior in all regards. 😋

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Ahh, a purist!

[@davidromanski3249]

Is the Mazda Miata 1.8 liter a flat plane crank engine?

[@LiTheMiataGuy]

Just curious what kind of power does your 2.0L High Comp ITB engine make? And what is your opinion on it? Thanks

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

The engine was up to about 178 rwhp and was enormous fun to drive with a nice spread of power and an 8000 rpm redline. Great engine. Unfortunately, most of the parts to build it have been unavailable for years - there were only 2-3 sets of the high compression stroker internals ever produced by FM. The market just wasn’t interested enough to pay the high price for a billet crank and associated bits at that power level. Almost all of the strokers were built for 400+ turbos.

[@handleymachine4421]

I’ve heard of people using an exhaust cam on the intake valves when you turbo the 1.6. Does it help!

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

We don't think there are enough gains to justify the hassle, but your mileage may vary.

[@hillbillysportsman5818]

Could you sell the NA and NB books on your website?

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

They’re out of print, unfortunately. You’ll have to hunt down a second hand set. The NB version is a lot more common.

[@rubberducky6411]

My 1.6 all original is cursed with rhat dreaded oil leak on the driver's side that weeps enough just to make things annoying.Its the head gasket but not internal just a corner port hole which goes bad and comes out thru the block.At only 48800 miles I still can't bring myself to crack open the motor to replace it as I read people with this common NA imotor issue have driven their cars like this for years and it never caused any problem except for very minor exterior oil weep that never gets worse and just live with it.I wonder if you encountered this peculiar problem and what your thoughts on resolving or living with it ...thanks .

[@mroshfosh]

Cost me 1100$ to fix mine.. i hate leaks lol

[@rubberducky6411]

@@mroshfosh hi did you just need a new head gasket to resolve it (most posts with this issue did just this) but read also having the head machined to mate proper surfacing which could possibly compromise sensitive component calibrations...

[@steveobarnes]

is there a video of the non turbo 1.6 ITB?

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Not easily accessed. The car predates KZbin and GoPros. There are some videos up at cheapsportscar.net that you can download.

[@jacobduncil4702]

when do you think turbo systems will be back in stock? 1992 NA6

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

As soon as possible. We are working on it.

[@josephvue9580]

What could you explain and tell the differences between the long nose and short nose crank on miata?

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Good suggestion - we have some good example parts. We'll put that in the list for a future tech video.

[@longbow1997]

@@FlyinMiataVideo could you also mention if there is anything to do to improve the short nose without swapping it? would be a lot cheaper / easier. Thanks in advance.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

@@longbow1997 Anything you can do to a long-nose 1.6, you can do to a short-nose 1.6 with a few exceptions like dampers and oil pump upgrades. That includes anything from intakes to headers to cams to forced induction. The 148 rwhp 1.6 that Keith had a few years back was a short-nose.

[@lucasfrench1841]

ayo wassah joe

[@owenmckee4053]

What's the wheel and tyre specs on that NA just behind you?

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

The blue NA is wearing our exclusive Kogeki 15x8 wheels in "deep silver" with 225/45 Toyo R888R tires.

[@COB86]

Keith - have you driven the ND 1.5L?

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Unfortunately not.

[@eddyfarthing4414]

I have a NB miata and my engine us blown so i want to know if the 1.6 can fit in the NB

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Anything is possible with enough time and money, but it's not a common swap, so finding parts/instructions is going to be tricky. Check Miata.net, or try giving our customer support team a call or email directly.

[@acejennings4431]

1.6 is like a 2stroke 1.8 2.0 is like 4stroke when 1.6 is high rpm the doom music kicks in lol

[@catsaretasty]

Just buy the mazdaspeed miata, the only factory supercharged one.

[@aygwm]

It’s turbocharged, and not that powerful. I believe you can tune a 1.8 VVT to put out more power naturally aspirated than a stock Mazdaspeed.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Peak power, with some work. Area under the curve, not so much. You can take an MSM to 200 whp pretty easily. But the character is a little clumsy. You can tell it’s the end of the line for the engine as Mazda tried to get it to run well and meet emissions limits.

[@petermad7476]

Those Mazdaspeed are slow tbh barely any difference in power with simple BO

[@sao007]

Easy question 2.0 😅😅

[@PBS-c1s]

I'm curious what do you think of the escort gt with the BP 1.8 I have a 91 and heard the only difference between the two motors is just the valve covers

[@MisterFixit69]

real quick answer, here you need to be very lucky for someone to sell their 1.8 , so youll have to settle for a 1.6

[@BingBingEnterprises]

Eh 1.8 overrated, 1.6 4 lyfe

[@patrickfargie1146]

We all know that rotorys are the answer haha

[@VinceCannavaII]

Also spell check.

[@roddydykes7053]

For about 70,000 miles

[@californiacanyonsandbackro2109]

Personally, I prefer the 1.6 liter. I like the fun, free-revving character of the smaller engine, and it probably doesn’t hurt that they came in the lightest iteration of the Miata chassis. According to Spec Miata rules, the 1.6 crank is 26.5lbs. while the 1.8 crank is 35.6lbs. That’s proportionately a much larger increase in weight than displacement, and I suspect it has a lot to do with why the 1.6 seems so much happier to rev. Adding a lighter flywheel makes it even better. Ultimately, if more power were my primary focus, I probably wouldn’t be driving a Miata in the first place. Speed and power are just numbers to me. What I’m after is the sensation of speed, not so much speed itself.

[@DwNecrid]

Installed a lightened 1.8 flywheel and clutch years ago when my 1.6 let go, best investment ive made. So happy to rev now, super fun. Only done the flywheel/clutch and coils, rest is stock. Absolute blast to rip around the back roads.

[@markc4768]

I've got the same feeling about speed - if I want to go really fast in a big hurry, I've got a shifter kart capable of 0-60 in the mid 3s and can top out at 135-ish)... My stock 1.6 delivers a pure driving experience in spades and will get me out of far more trouble than it will ever get me into... You are right about reciprocating mass differences between stock 1.8 and 1.6 - A lightened steel flywheel and an NA clutch combo shaves off about 9 pounds and it makes for a rev-happy 1.8 - especially in a gutted NA. The 1.6 with a lightened flywheel loses about 6 pounds and can def feel the difference, but while it's great on the top end, loses a good bit of the grunt that the 1.8 with a light flywheel keeps by virtue of displacement and cam grind

[@motomenace86]

​@@DwNecridI use the 1.6 flywheel clutch in the 1.8, makes it more awake

[@aktubegoogle]

About the engine redlines: JDM NBs (at least 1.8 VVT) have 7500 redline

[@philguzman6932]

The great 1.6 vs 1.8 debate! This is always fun, although I have seen some forehead and neck veins during some more heated debates. I have owned 3 NA'S(in order) a '92, a '97 and,... wait for it...any guesses...(Jeopardy theme music)...almost there...a '91. All were stock. Like Keith was saying if you're building for power 1.8. If you're keeping it stock, 1.6. The 1.6 has a better character for the car, it loves to rev. The 1.8 on the other hand, kinda feels winded around 6k. I use to autocross the '92, I had no issues keeping up with the 1.8(including the VVT). The 1.6 pulls gleefully screaming until it runs into the limter. I'm proudly in camp 1.6. I now own an ND2. Guess my favorite engine in a Miata now.

[@brianrobinson7972]

Another awesome video, I have a 1.6 and was considering the swap because I thought that I would be throwing good money out for bad to boost the 1.6 but I love the engine and the mechanical sounds it makes and I was thinking to sell it before watching the last video you posted about your new to you car and you told me to just drive it and have fun so thanks for talking me off the ledge both times !

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

It all comes down to personal preference. The Miata is always going to be a fun car, so we definitely recommend just driving it as much as possible and enjoying it!

[@Babakanosh]

I think this argument practically boils down to what you want to do with the car. I own a 1.6 and can attest to what was said in this video. There are specific cases where the 1.6 is better. It is lighter, happier to rev, and has the more traditionally sportier power band. Now this is strictly a stock vs stock comparison. If you ever plan on going down the road of ecu tuning the 1.8 is a superior platform to begin with for both NA and turbo setups. This is due to the many quality of life changes Mazda made to the 1.8 as the years went on by. You can save a lot of money, time and frustration. As an example the 1.8s came with OBD2, Knock sensors, throttle position sensors, VVT, MAF vs AFM, etc. (This is all year dependent so do your research!!!) If you never want to go down this route stick to the 1.6, the car is lighter and happier to drive. The extra power of the 1.8 is not as noticeable when you consider the extra weight of their chassis (yes they are still faster...). The ultimate miata is a combination of all of the NA and NB cars tailored to what you want from them so I wouldn't stress to much about it. There is no definitive answer. Tips for more power for the 1.6 gang: 1. Look into the 14° timing advance mod. Do your research and be responsible. Put better gas in to avoid pre detonation and be extra careful if you live in hotter climates. 2. The FC rx7 AFM box is a direct fit with the 1.6 one. It has a wider opening for air to flow through. This will give you a slight bump in power after 6000 rpm. No tuning required just an easy install.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Good tips! In the end the choice all boils down to personal preference and how you use the car, but you'd be surprised how often we get asked!

[@Treaxvour]

Neither, I want a 13B-REW in my miata.

[@nanz8981]

Does FM have a video, or could it do a video on 5 speed vs 6 speed?

[@VinceCannavaII]

Or typical swaps that could feel just as good as the stock units!

[@RideShootDrink]

I'd love to know it too. I have a 6 speed, and have been itching to put it behind 1.6. My rationale behind it that low torque engine could benefit from a closer ratio transmission, and broader torqued engine say a turbo engine doesn't really need that many gears, except when the strength of a 6 speed is needed.

[@JuanmaNuel-nb7nn]

Almost have then similar gears ratios ,just the dff gears ratio make the diferencies between both gearboxes

[@him4201]

Love my 1.6l turbo Miata stock motor running 11psi for the last 4 years flawless

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Turbo makes everything better :)

[@mrd.808]

The Boss man. So much knowledge. Thank you for sharing, Boss!

[@ericbonk2757]

Any chance Keith that you go into the 148 rwhp 1.6 you built? Did the power move too far up to enjoy daily, or did you have a bunch of compression requiring fancy fuel? My car is an old school type build and the engine is next on the list. I have a good, low mileage 1.6 lnc engine from a wrecked car to replace my aging 1.6 snc, and want to do something to make it more special, without ruining drivability.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Web Camshaft 505 cams, 11:1 compression, headwork, a custom header based off the “Boig” EP unit, one-off TWM throttles and a Link ECU. It ran on 91 octane and while you could daily drive it, it really preferred life above 4000 rpm. It likely made even more power - it had an 8000 rpm redline, but we never dynoed it past 7200 because that was the preset on our dyno setup and we were usually looking at other behaviors so we didn’t bother changing it. It did seem to outperform its rating when chasing other similar cars with more power. But the experience! Operatic.

[@ericbonk2757]

​@@FlyinMiataVideoWhen you say you could daily drive it, but it preferred life above 4000 rpm, does that mean it had less than stock power and drivability below the 4000, then it woke up like VTEC, or did it have stock like characteristics below 4000, but came alive above? Thank you for giving many of the details in your reply above!

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

@@ericbonk2757 It was built to rev, so it preferred life at 4000+. That's not a hard line, it basically just wanted to spin as fast as you would let it. Taking it into a traffic jam would be a waste, especially since it liked to idle a little faster than the usual 850 rpm. It probably never had less than stock power anywhere in the range. You certainly COULD daily drive it, but why spend that much money to build an amazing engine just to use it like a Corolla?

[@DessikaModus]

I WISH the ND came with the 1.5L. the 2.0L is an amazing engine but I don't ever feel the need to go above 6k on spirited drives and 3k on daily

[@alexismendoza1545]

2.0 cuz mo powa baby

[@treeskier802]

I’ve driven a NB and NC-preferred the NC; never drove a NA. A car I’m intrigued by is the 2017 Fiat 124. How does the small turbo engine for the Fiat compare to the NA, NB, NC Miata? I’ve only seen comparisons of the Fiat and the ND.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

@treeskier802 FM had a Fiat 124 as an R&D platform years ago, but no one bought any parts for it, so that car was sold. It was not a popular car around the office at the time - most people here didn't care for the way that engine delivered its power.

[@treeskier802]

⁠@@FlyinMiataVideoTha is that’s a big help. I drove the NC and really liked it. I’d like to find a PRHT NC. Thanks for your response. I really prefer the styling over the Fiat as well; I saw a great deal on a Fiat but I’d really prefer a Miata.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

@@treeskier802 With the development of our NC turbo kit, our NC shop car has quickly become the most popular loaner Miata! The PRHTs can be hard to find, but they are out there.

[@treeskier802]

Yeah I’m looking across the country for the PRHT. I’d really like to land the 2013 or 2014 club. But the grand touring with suspension package and preferred package is also nice. I found an NC1 I like but I feel like I need to hold out for the NC2. I’ll be interested in a tune or maybe your turbo kit at some point. I think I’ll want a bit more power than the stock setup but like how common the Miata is. I’ve owned a few uncommon cars and as nice as it is to get the “what’s that” questions, finding mechanical support gets to be a real problem. Thanks for your prompt response; this is exactly why I desire the Miata-great teams like yours that are around to help at the drop of a hat.

[@jeffreyappezzato9179]

I have driven both an NA and a NB car (I own a1999) and I can only say that if you sidestep the clutch in the 1.8L at 3,000 RPM, it will do a pretty long burnout. Also, is there a safe comparison by saying you get more of a broader power band from a 383 ci SBC (350 block w/ 400 crank), even though the power band will start to drop off around 6500RPM?

[@ricks_toys]

Both NB1 and NB2 JDM 1.8s have 7500 rpm redlines

[@yamazaki9168]

that's the exactly same story for s2000 lol

[@maneki9neko]

The Yamaguchi books are terrific.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

A hidden gem a lot of people don't know about!

[@tomtilly5887]

Would you attribute the rev'y'ness of the 1.6 primarily to rod:stroke ratio or head/cams? or what I'm really asking; with enough head work can a 1.8 feel like a 1.6?

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

The rod ratio is likely a contributor, but cams are going to make the biggest difference.

[@grubinski]

I'll take a 6.2

[@StefanGoudreau]

What can be done to improve top end performance on nd1 without a turbo ?

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

BBR sells some cams that wake it up nicely. It feels very much like the ND2.

[@Dragoș-SabinBalea]

Someone please make me understand. I own a NB, 1.6 '99. I plan to swap to 1.8 non-VVT. The engine I'm going to buy it's complete, all ancillaries included (injectors, alternator, starter, exhaust manifold, throttle body , electrical harness etc etc etc). Please take a minute, and help me. Do I still need the conversion kit? In my opinion, if the new engine is complete, there should not be a lot of trouble.

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

@user-pu3ti3nf3m We've never had the chance to do a 1.8 conversion on a 1.6 NB before (NBs only came with 1.8s in the US), so our expertise on your particular swap is somewhat limited, and the parts in our conversion kit may not work. If you haven't already read through our 1.8 conversion kit instructions (s3.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/instructions.flyinmiata/misc/1.8swap.pdf), we'd recommend starting there. For further questions not covered by that document, please contact our Customer Support team!

[@Dragoș-SabinBalea]

@@FlyinMiataVideo thank you for the response! Keep up the good work, guys

[@markc4768]

I've owned a basically out of the box '91 (AC/PW/PB/ABS/LSD) ith 300k miles (108HP at last dyno/tune in 2021) for 21 years. It's an incredibly fun "slow car fast" - exactly as it was intended - only thing I've changed is reversible - a slightly fatter front sway bar to slow the roll rate, and an OE big brake swap. Does everything I want it to and has never "not driven me home under its own power...." As the former owner of an F/PROD MGB, a 62 Austin 1071 Mini Cooper S, a 63 XKE and a 65 TVR Griffith plus a bunch of various MGs, I truly love how it fits, and feels and responds. I recently drove a 130hp NA 1.6 and a stock 1.8 '96 (133 factory?) back to back, both built/tuned by the same guy who was selling/trading both - neither car was extensively modified - the 1.6 had coil overs but small stock brakes . As a daily driver, I would rather have that 1.8 - it had stock springs with adjustable shocks, headers and a free flowing exhaust - a much stronger launch when turning from a side road to main road with traffic approaching at 55-60 (with the AC on) - I didn't have to mat the throttle thru fourth gear to keep from being rear ended. But as a pure backroad twisties driver, the 1.6 was FAR more fun - lowered about an inch on high end coilovers, manual steering with much better feedback, a fat free flow exhaust (I suspect a gutted cat but didn't ask) and a sweeter howl from the engine around 6500-7000 than mine ever made. We couldn't come to an agreement on a price with or without a trade, so I'm still waiting for the phone to ring...

[@mrd.808]

Intresting how politics affect emissions regulations. Toyota has brought back the 1L 3 cylinder. Curious how Mazda will respond, probably with a PHEV setup.

[@S0u11ess]

NA6 is totally gutless. It doesn't "rev out better" you just have to rev it more to get the same result as the 1.8. I test drove all versions of the na/nb and the 1.6 was the only one that felt too underpowered to be fun

[@motomenace86]

I like the 1.8 cause it's used in alot of platforms. Ford's Kia's use them. Plus can't beat cc's.

[@chrisbosse1522]

No matter what I think we can all agree roots style supercharged NA's trump all.👌🙃

[@MooshroomMinitouar]

Has anyone done a ND drive train in an NA?

[@FlyinMiataVideo]

Not that we know, but it would be an interesting project. The electronics would be a challenge, you’re not going to control a direct injection engine with something like a Megasquirt 2.