Overconfidence and Disrespect - The Story of PIA 605

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Күн бұрын

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@mikhailswartz 21 күн бұрын

As someone who has a Pakistani department head who is 20 years my senior - the only thing that surprised me was that everyone walked away from this incident.

@quintincairncross1088 21 күн бұрын

Excellent analysis as always Magnar

@AidanEyewitness 15 күн бұрын

This analysis was riveting from beginning to end, brilliantly explained and presented!

@paulreilly3904 16 күн бұрын

Magnar, you do some of the best analysis I've seen. I've seen a lot, in several fields. Measured, clear, concise and from position of knowledge and experience. Really well done. Thank you

@zucalignacio 21 күн бұрын

Hi Magnar. Here in Argentina, San Fernando airport, three days ago we had an accident very similar, but with worst consequences. Both pilots were fataly injured. The plane, a Challenger 300 ( LV-GOK) performed a crazy stabilidez approach below 10.000 ft. crossing the threshold at 224 kt. perfect wheather 1:30 pm, touched the middle of runway (5300 ft.) runway excursion and impacted to houses. The plane was involved in flames. The pilots died due to a monoxide inhalation. The investigation is on course. It looks like the final investigation would be very similar to this accident. Best regards Magnar. I'm fan of you!

@ZX-mg5xs 21 күн бұрын

Thank you Magnar. Unfortunately there is a safety culture gap between regional divisions of some national carriers and their flagships. Our flagship airline flies international only with a young fleet of A330s and 777s and the most experienced pilots, the regional division with ATR fleet however, the captains are mostly demoted flagship airline captains and FOs brand new cadets or those deemed not good enough for flagship. Despite that the ATR's regional design subjects it to more weather and terrain challenges, it should be flown with the same if not more care than an international 777 or A330 flight, yet it's in the hands of the least suitable crew. Why should a human life depend on destination, fare cost or aircraft?!

@arb6591 21 күн бұрын

Excellent explanations, enjoyed the video to the max! Thank you Captain!

@musiqtee 21 күн бұрын

Thanks for your insightful narration on so much available knowledge - and for sharing it the way you do…! That aside (forgive an amateur enthusiast…), I keep scratching my head on _why_ the runway has this ≈ 35° alignment to the valley. Seems to me that the terrain (ridge) on final (25) becomes a “human made” threat, than IF that runway was closer to e.g. 28…? I’m sure there are reasons beyond my shallow impression from the map at 12:37 (and the published chart). Oh well, just me pondering stuff I can’t know…😅

@lesterinvester167 20 күн бұрын

Really enjoy all your flight debriefs, aeronautical information and analysis. You have become my favourite post accidents information. wish I cold have flown with you in my career, Thank you Magnar

@arb6591 21 күн бұрын

Thanks!

@stevecrockett4414 21 күн бұрын

Yet another very well explained video. Thank you Captain Magyar, I learn so very much from your explanations. Keep them coming.

@anand-menon 21 күн бұрын

Right !... so at PIA ,takeoff is mandatory, landing is optional....

@SpidaMez 18 күн бұрын

precisely

@user-ny7cv3ke9b 21 күн бұрын

Thanks for the video Cap🤝

@alannewman85 15 күн бұрын

Hi Magnar! Love your accent! Is it Norwegian?!

@paulboath5310 15 күн бұрын

Capt. Magnar, An excellent brief on this flight. It’s extremely worrying that the pilots could not describe the difference between IAS, TAS, and GS, as you note that’s pre PPL standard, and not ATPL at any level.

@davidbaldwin1591 17 күн бұрын

I can't be a pilot yet. But Magnar, your confidence makes me want to fly the ATR. It seems like fun.

@NicolaW72 21 күн бұрын

Given that this accident happened in July 2019 it reads really as if it would have been the Preliminary to the infamous Crash of PIA Flight 8303 in May 2020, ten month later. If the key information what caused this accident wouldn´t have published five years later but in time, maybe the Crash of PIA Flight 8303 could have been avoided. Footnote: PIA just got the certification to fly again into the EU, which was abandoned after PIA Flight 8303. Hopefully they´ve improved fundamentally in the last five years. - Thank you very much for the detailed explanation of what happened here.👍 -

@joakimlindblom8256 17 күн бұрын

I was thinking exactly the same watching this excellent video -- it's eerily similar to the landing approach of PIA 8303, and points to a systematically broken training, operating and monitoring culture at PIA. Hopefully this has now been properly fixed as part of PIA's recertification to fly into the EU.

@NicolaW72 17 күн бұрын

@@joakimlindblom8256 Indeed, exactly. I was astonished to learn the similarities. It supports the demand that important findings of aircraft investigations should be published as soon as they´re available and not only with a Final Report some five years later, when they had become "ancient history", to quote the former NTSB-investigator John Goglia.

@GabrielCKundaQFIpsc 19 күн бұрын

I dare say that Obudu in Nigeria is also extremely challenging that ATR had to advise to stop operations there!

@adb012 21 күн бұрын

The energy calculation is very important, because the landing roll distance is more or less proportional to the kinetic energy at touchdown. The reason being that the kinetic energy must be dissipated as work done by all the stopping forces, W=F.d, where F is all the stopping forces and d is the distance. If you assume that the stopping force is constant (which is not but is a reasonably good first approximation), then the work is proportional to the distance. But then the work has to be equal to the kinetic energy you want to dissipate. If you double the kinetic energy (which you do if you increase the speed by just 41%, due to speed being squared), you more or less double the stopping distance.

@shubhromu 21 күн бұрын

Another PIA crash due to violation of SOP. Did the pilot even have a real PL?

@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 21 күн бұрын

He bought the dearer version.

@afreightdogslife 21 күн бұрын

@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 😂😂😂😂💩💩

@gettothepoint2707 21 күн бұрын

Its pakistan....what else could you expect?

@NicolaW72 21 күн бұрын

This happened indeed ten month before the infamous Crash of PIA flight 8303 and it shows basically very similar violations of safety regards and SOP´s.

@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 21 күн бұрын

@@shubhromu Safer than Air France?

@gonetoearth2588 21 күн бұрын

Excellent analysis....Thanks!

@sotirissinanis1188 21 күн бұрын

Thank you so much as always for providing another top notch video. One question, on the graph at 10:24 , the "Warning" and "Caution" lines are supposed to be like that, or the other way around? I mean the path with the bigger safety margin should be the caution and the path exactly on the safety margin should be the Warning. Or did i miss something?

@virendermohan6870 20 күн бұрын

Talking of Gilgit Airport in Himalayas, visuals of an Island Airstrip are shown

@zlm001 17 күн бұрын

Thanks.

@Susietravels 18 күн бұрын

The first officer is just as guilty

@CaptainK007 21 күн бұрын

Presume after many back handers the captain was promoted for his aircraft recycling program.

@mr.airspace 23 күн бұрын

Hi Captain :) Thanks for another insightful and well-researched video 😊 I was wondering (or maybe an idea for another video), for airports which have a 'point of no return' on the approach, I understand you are committed to land from there onwards. However, does that also mean there is no missed approach procedure? I somehow guess a point of no return means you can not outclimb the mountains from there onwards, so then probably that also applies to the missed approach which is then simply not possible?

@FlywithMagnar 23 күн бұрын

The published missed approach point (MAPt) is at the end of the instrument approach procedure. (At Mae Hong Son it is 0.5 NM past the VOR.) If you decide to go around after the MAPt, you usually follow the departure procedure for that runway. But since you cannot depart from runway 11 at Mae Hong Son, you must define a point of no return and go-around procedure.

@mr.airspace 22 күн бұрын

@@FlywithMagnar Now I understand, thanks again :)

@bbgun061 21 күн бұрын

In other words, if you don't meet the stabilized approach criteria at the point of no return, you must go around. If you are on a stabilized approach, a successful landing is assured.

@Colaholiker 20 күн бұрын

I don't like to generalize blame, but a colleague of mine who is of Pakistani descent say that he would never fly on PIA to visit his family in Pakistan. In fact, most people in the country say that PIA stands for "please inform Allah" (in case things go wrong). And realistically, most of the time you hear from them, it is not in a good way. Fortunately, in this case, it only resulted in (costly) material damage, not in injuries or fatalities. What baffles me in this case is that the captain was an instructor and still flew like this. I have never flown with you (in fact, I have never flown anything but RC toys), but I am sure that you wouldn't do it or would anyone you are supervising get away with such disregard for procedures.

@MichGoBIue 24 күн бұрын

Great video. I wonder why they did not use reverse thrusters?

@bbgun061 21 күн бұрын

That is the mystery. Reverse thrust on the ATR is immediate and very effective. It probably would have allowed them to stop on the runway. Although they still exceeded the brake energy limit and maximum tire speed of 165kts.

@runrau9275 21 күн бұрын

@@bbgun061 We have on average 6-8 ATR's that land on our small Island each day and I swear those Pilots all try to set some record in stopping distance. I am sure it is just a visual annomoly from where I live but alot of times it seems those thrusters are engaging before all gear is on the ground. In case you watch Flight Radar here it is. Island Lake Airport YIV / CYIV Elev. 770 ft

@Karibanu 21 күн бұрын

Even more of a puzzle given PF had the presence of mind to set the condition levers on approach ( CL in 100% override doesn't do anything crazy like lock out reverse? I would hope not! ). Stress, I guess? we'll probably never know.

@davidkavanagh189 21 күн бұрын

@@Karibanu Setting props to 100% on approach is normal procedure as far as I'm aware.

@bbgun061 20 күн бұрын

@@Karibanu No, 100% does not prevent reverse.

@Iggiampi59 21 күн бұрын

thanks capitan...

@gap9992 21 күн бұрын

Based on general discoveries since this accident, you have to wonder if either of the pilots had a proper licence or if their hours were real? Lack of basic knowledge suggests a licence purchased rather than earned through proper training. 5 years to publish the report probably gave the captain time to get to retirement! I will never fly on an airline where the national culture is one of complete deference to seniority. Or one where the religion defaults to a belief in fate. Or one where there is endemic corruption

@dermick 21 күн бұрын

Wise thinking. Flying safely requires more than just a good pilot - it requires the organization to have a strong safety culture.

@WarblesOnALot 21 күн бұрын

G'day Pharoah enuf...! So, like me, Ye Will not be Flying anywhere at all Whatsoever inside, or over The Elonic Trumpocalypse...; Whereinat the U.S.A. once Used to be...? Such is life, Have a good one..... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !

@GarethReecewood 16 күн бұрын

Seems to be systemic at PIA. No wonder Europe banned them from operating flights to Europe

@Ztbmrc1 21 күн бұрын

Interesting calculations of energy at touch down! With that last manoeuvre by steering hard to the left he saved the airport from damage, and avoided shooting over the road probably killing people in cars driving there. But his very bad flying habits was what brought them in this bad situation in the first place.

@NicolaW72 21 күн бұрын

Indeed, exactly.

@aong100 18 күн бұрын

0:54 That's my home town HGN 😀

@ATR600Pilot 20 күн бұрын

Hi Captain! Excellent as always! One question, is it ok, during very short flights (

@FlywithMagnar 19 күн бұрын

Sure, no problem.

@rascalap2968 20 күн бұрын

There are few qualified pilots in that country, even fewer competent ones, and no trustworthy ones. I’ve flown PIA many times and before every flight they broadcast a prayer over the speakers - I prayed harder!

@mindguru22 19 күн бұрын

But I am sure you were not using the same book for prayer.

@eddiehimself 21 күн бұрын

Not like PIA pilots to be overconfident and disrespectful amirite

@mikhailswartz 21 күн бұрын

@@eddiehimself 😂😂😂

@ettorebugatti6846 21 күн бұрын

Sir, real question, why not use the VS function of the autopilot?

@pandamisha 21 күн бұрын

Easy to stall. KIAS hold assures your aircraft will not stall and if will steuggle to climb it will level off. If you choose v/s than regardless of your speed tha ajtopilot will hold your v/s which may lead to a stall

@jimh4375 21 күн бұрын

This was actually a well planned approach with a good outcome compared to PIA 8303.

@NicolaW72 21 күн бұрын

It was in fact very similar to the Crash of PIA Flight 8303, only with the two major differences that the Captain didn´t tried to go around after he crashed the aircraft and that miraculously nobody was hurt.

@Larry-mk9ry 21 күн бұрын

No mention of applying prop beta? Did they just not bother to use it? They did so many other things wrong that this is almost a distraction, but at the speed the were running reverse thrust wouldda removed quite a bit of energy from the craft.

@southpakrules 10 күн бұрын

There are better channels out there that don't interrupt their commercials every 2 minutes for a few moments of a guy rambling something something air crash.

@wewillrockyou1986 21 күн бұрын

Classic case of excess authority gradient combined with a culture where these authority gradients are normalised, Asian and particularly Islamic countries are particularly susceptible to this, we had this problem in the west 30-40 years ago.

@abingdonboy 21 күн бұрын

Why are all Pakistan/Nepal/Bangladesh accidents effectively the same? Deeply broken cultures

@jon.limjap 21 күн бұрын

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of excellent pilots in the PIA, but they have way too many "overconfidence and disrespect" and poor CRM incidents off of their captains.

@hunter62207 18 күн бұрын

A classic result of inducting ex Airforce pilots, who then occupy many training positions which breeds the environment you have described. Pakistan is basically under martial law so airlines must hire ex military pilots.