All Style, No Substance

[@sebastianherrera6514]

Plucky squire is definitely a game to be played when you’re a child or young, the themes of the game about art inspiring art and finding your style really make it seem like the devs wanted this game to be targeted to children so they themselves can be inspired by it and maybe become artist themselves. It’s neat, yeah it’s dull to play but my dumb artsy brain likes the pretty colors and compositions so I still felt like my money was well spent.

[@baalfgames5318]

*inspire art, but the story is a cliche-AF human-sue story.* -_-

[@Persun_McPersonson]

@@baalfgames5318 If cliches are never used, then you just end up with new cliches.

[@sebastianherrera6514]

@@baalfgames5318 yeah it is cliché, but I don’t really care.

[@baalfgames5318]

@@Persun_McPersonson Yeah, but the "humans are god's golden miracle and everything else is evil and worthless" and "Humans are SOOO relatable! The protagonist cannot be anything else, even if they're supposed to be a different species" are cliches that needs to die.

[@Persun_McPersonson]

@@baalfgames5318 Are those being used in Plucky? I don't see it.

[@baconboi7796]

Plucky Spire very much so feels like a game that I would recommend to someone who wants to get into games but hasn't played one.

[@phanastro]

On a similar level, it feels like a game I probably would've loved when I was younger

[@hellvatican3385]

It feels like a good game to play with either your child or a family member that's younger.

[@theivoryguy2476]

That's not his name

[@Grayson-tk5hn]

@@theivoryguy2476 what

[@wasteurtime5677]

I wouldnt. It would discourage them from playing other things. Non-gamers arent children.

[@tyresr]

I don’t really see much criticism of indie games on YT, it’s always about AAA games

[@derple8524]

Really sad though

[@genericgmd9030]

i think its because a lot of people just ignore bad indies instead of taking the time to play and criticize them

[@PetitTasdeBoue]

There's thousands of indies who just totally go under the radar. You may actually find a lot of those in bundles

[@iamewp]

Yeah everyone glazes indie stuff because its not big corporation and they aint open to criticism

[@NicoleColenico]

@@iamewp From my experience Indie games are way more likely to accept criticism, especially with indie devs being in closer contact with their community than the average AAA developer.

[@davisgoodrich8183]

Pizza Tower and Cuphead are the ideal balance of style and gameplay.

[@vladi3862]

ori

[@Fancyether]

Super meat boy also

[@memelurd7341]

From what I've heard, Ultrakill's style and gameplay are synonymous.

[@personrhs]

Also ANTONBLAST and BOOM! Buster

[@jozimastar95]

Slay the spire

[@clashcrafter]

plucky squire seems like a game that looks like a cartoon not to play on nostalgia but because it's actually aimed at little children. the gameplay seems to reflect that too. ofc some adults will enjoy it too so they're not gonna market it as something only for kids, but still.

[@natalimoina]

Looking cartoony is just a very good art style, usually has nothing to do with nostalgia or kids

[@Cfdrifbloom]

We can say its a game for everyone, adults also like to play simple games, theres nothing wrong with that and i feel a lot of people equate the difficulty of the games your play to your value as a "gamer"

[@magic2546]

@@Cfdrifbloom Agreed. I never understood the notion that games have to be challenging in order to be good. Difficulty can be fun obviously, but not every game needs to be that way. What matters is if the game is fun and enjoyable, and being difficult isn't the only way to accomplish that.

[@pedrito890]

After the first day I was like "Damn, this is a kids game." Which isn't bad but to me it was very boring to mash one button for combat and puzzles being incredibly easy.

[@upsilon_1]

i made this video

[@Darachu]

thank you upsilon

[@Blaze_boy596]

Thank u for sum gud shit :3

[@ImTheGuy]

NUH UH

[@pk251]

actually i made it

[@obito9775]

Good job

[@Shyguymask]

My goal in the future is to attempt making a Tower defense game with the most substance and most interesting gameplay possible that I can manage, to make up for my non-existent art skills and also the oversaturation in the genre.

[@Gusenichka925]

good luck, just roblox alone probably filled every single tower defense niche😭

[@Vessel-v875]

This reminds me of infinitode 2. Though you're probably not going to include the grind part

[@Shyguymask]

@@Gusenichka925 I don't really consider Roblox TD games to have particularly substantial gameplay.

[@Jenna_Talia]

​@@Gusenichka925To be fair nobody's gonna rock up and say "your game's a roblox ripoff"

[@bastiancu2365]

Just make kingdom rush frontiers

[@BMVfilms]

What I find interesting is indie games I think if they're designed to be relatively simple non-hardcore games, they can get shoved into a box as "uninspired"

[@hemi1139]

But no one really says games like unpacking are uninspired, even though its relatively simple and non-hardcore

[@joenoodle6914]

​@@hemi1139I don't think this guy thought too hard about his comment

[@OldyAlbert]

I think because if you have mechanics people expect them to matter. If you made a Visual Novel nobody will ctrisize it as lacking challenge, but if you made a game with combat where i can spam attack button and win - why it's even there? By virtue of being the action genre you summoned it's audience and as a result - their critisism

[@desertplanet3253]

yeah. i dont get the need some people have for every game to be hardcore permadeath soulslike whatevers. some games can just be fun and simple, and that's fine. not everything needs to be super difficult

[@FelisImpurrator]

Worst take I've seen today.

[@User-cf8ll]

"Some people think that style doesn't include substance, but that's because they mistake prettiness for style. Style is what happens when people deftly enjoy their own eccentricities-and it is plenty substantive." -someone There are some pices of media witch are ,,Stylie is substance,, like Hylics 1&2 , Little goody two shoes or The Man from U.N.C.L.E (2015)

[@Sappysappster]

@@User-cf8ll HYLICS MENTIONED It's good to see someone that understands style CAN be substance

[@YaBoiBigNutz]

I feel like "Function over form" is better than "style over substance" Like you said style CAN be substance. But a game needs to be fun (function) above all, before aesthetic (form), in my opinion.

[@jemandetwas1]

Right, like Bayonetta has really solid substance, but it wouldn't be nearly the masterpiece that it is if you didn't play as a sassy, sexy witch fighting the entirety of Dante's Inferno. The style becomes part of the substance in a sense

[@MaxwellBunten]

fellow maraganger enthusiast

[@macironi8]

LITTLE GOODY TWO SHOES MENTIONED FOR GOODNESS SAKE!!!!!

[@Micha-Hil]

what about games with all substance, no style?

[@jediapc226]

One of the first ones that comes to mind fore me is clone drone in the danger zone

[@Splashy_the_III]

vampire survivors

[@SinOnHumanity]

Slay The Spire

[@FelisImpurrator]

Dwarf Fortress?

[@sigmacist]

squishcraft

[@Tired_Tortilla]

i think rainworld is an almost perfect mix of style and gameplay because not only is the game filled with some incredibly breathtaking rooms that are beyond pretty but the gameplay never stops being interesting and always keeps you engaged by throwing new things at you also the game interlay avoids visual clutter because everything that you can interact with on the foreground has no shading and uses brighter colors so they are easy to see

[@gaafwm8137]

Rainworld is just perfect honestly

[@Azazel386]

I'm never gonna escape the rain world glazers, holy

[@Tired_Tortilla]

@@Azazel386 you can’t escape us

[@Azazel386]

@@Tired_Tortilla D:

[@greenuparrow]

agreed

[@OmmeleteStudios]

Indie gamedev here! Making a game is an insanely time-consuming and draining process, especially if you're working with a small team. But i would rather refine a game until it's perfect in all aspects instead of making the game right off the bat with the first idea i have. The first idea will eventually be altered as the game keeps being developed, and usually, for the better. Your advice on playing bad games to see what works and what doesn't is really great, and i have done it before! It really does pay off to learn from others' (and eventually your) mistakes. Great vid!!

[@Oiner]

Something that certain developers tend to forget is most people purchase video games to play them. If the game lacks an enticing gameplay loop, then what’s left? A mess that may have some charm, but a mess nonetheless. Games are an interactive medium, creating an enjoyable gameplay experience should be a massive priority of any game developer.

[@thinkingsnake1189]

I have to disagree on this one. You purchased a game because what it offers entices you (then you like it or you dont but that's a different discussion) Fun is subjective, some like stylish and narrative driven games, some like gameplay focused games and some both Sometimes, style IS substance. Might sound silly but personally i think the term "video game" as a whole isn't quite right, especially nowadays

[@Oiner]

@@thinkingsnake1189 while I understand some people might purchase games for the setting or the story, gameplay is an important element that some developers unfortunately don’t focus enough on; it’s always part of the experience. Narrative driven games can still have something to offer gameplay wise. Take Oneshot for example, a game that cleverly ties gameplay and its story together through making you inspect elements of your pc to solve puzzles. The emphasis on gameplay varies by genre, but it shouldn’t be an afterthought. If you make a game for the sole purpose of telling a story, then why not create a movie or show?

[@Supershadow301]

Agreed, although style is definitely a big selling point for many games, especially for less interactive games like casual simulators or visual novels (and similar telltale-style games). If you have great gameplay but boring style, the game will end up dead in the water.

[@involvedhail1788]

Conkers bad fur day syndrome : the gameplay is dogshit but the style and narrative makes up for it.

[@FrahdChikun]

This is why I think people really need to give Live and Reloaded a chance. So what if they censored all the swears? The humor is still there (I personally think the bleeps make the dialogue funnier) with a few new jokes and much better controls (especially when it comes to the gun sections). Plus, it looks fantastic as an Xbox game!

[@Phoeboi]

the flower 💀

[@mistertagomago7974]

Conkers gameplay is no less dogshit than Banjo Kazooie.

[@cnk9822]

Hop off on Conker that game is goated my guy.

[@involvedhail1788]

@@cnk9822 I like the game too but it just doesn’t play that great

[@Limestoneowl]

0:17 pvz gw2 my beloved

[@AquilesThaGoat]

Some indie games have probably the most unique artstyle in gaming This is why I love indie games (also good video foekoe)

[@jurtheorc8117]

Like Clash: Artifacts of Chaos, Lost in Random, Cookie Cutter, Magenta Horizon, Zet Zillions, No Straight Roads, The Dishwasher: Vampire Smile and Charlie Murder, Paradigm, and so many more.

[@thatcher6923]

hylics 2 is so good btw

[@mrcrackfish0]

@@thatcher6923 HYLICS MENTIONED, its such a good game

[@CLtheDragon]

@@jurtheorc8117Bendy and the Ink Machine too

[@EverybodyIsWeirdLikeYouAndMe]

You can make a game out of just one neat concept, whether it's in the story or design or gameplay... But still gotta work all other aspects of the game. That's why I think it is important to ask yourself if making it a game is the best solution. It can be a short movie, a comic, a novel, a zine, a poster, a song, an audio book... So many ways to concretize your ideas.

[@thinkingsnake1189]

But what if you want a interactive narrative driven game? Like telltale games for example, what if you just desire to tell a story using the video game medium? Personally i think the term "video game" as a whole isn't quite right, especially nowadays where anyone can make anything Personally, i just dont think that because they lack in gameplay it makes them bad automatically

[@EverybodyIsWeirdLikeYouAndMe]

@@thinkingsnake1189 Of course. Good gameplay is not necessarily an "engaging" gameplay. It just means that no matter what gameplay you decided to go with, it is well done, even for narrative focused games.

[@lariceGG7932]

I think you can make a good game out of one neat concept, It's just that that concept needs to be really prevalent in every aspect of the game.

[@EverybodyIsWeirdLikeYouAndMe]

@@lariceGG7932 Agreed!

[@Interpainter]

Plucking my squire to this vid, thanks forkoe!

[@MochaSlushes]

@@Interpainter not everything needs to be sexual. Everyone has been making sexual jokes about the stupid name of the game and there isn’t even ANY sexual content in the game. Says a lot about the horny men who dominate the internet and video gaming

[@Lummox874]

I’m sorry?

[@Interpainter]

@@Lummox874 my squire? Plucked. My foe? Koed.

[@MochaSlushes]

@@Lummox874 my comment got removed 🙄

[@misterboxhead3045]

Straight up plucking it. and by "it" hehe, let's just say my squire

[@carraigroche9663]

Ecco the dolphin on the genesis holds this exact spot for me,it has a brilliant and foreboding atmosphere that really wasn't seen at the time but the gameplay is just tedious and annoying

[@variumi]

If anything it’s proof that this is an issue the games industry has been grappling with for a while

[@toottootsonicwarrior5777]

"Tedious and annoying" was most games on the genesis lmao.

[@trickydiagram5267]

@@toottootsonicwarrior5777 Yeah... true, still love the art though

[@antpunisher7019]

So this is the indie games version of choosing graphics over gameplay.

[@yellowstarproductions6743]

Agreed

[@sergioterenzi8236]

You've basically just described Zoochosis...

[@Cubeytheawesome]

Aw man, I was really rooting for that to do well. It looked so good.

[@InsertStuffHere]

I literally clicked on this video because of what I've heard and the bit I've seen about Zoochosis.

[@massgunner4152]

I heard the dev's previous game was even worse but lost track of the youtuber who discussed it

[@quvuergatulyai980]

Fr

[@That1One-Guy]

I can’t wait for the day where foekoe announces that he’s been working on a video game for the past 2 years :)

[@Louloupopo_16]

*Fish on da Flo: THE GAME*

[@MochaSlushes]

@@That1One-Guy that’s cool and all but why do you have a sexual comment in your comment history?

[@WhiteSharkfsul]

BLUD was originally going to be a tv series but wasn’t picked up but alas, they made it a video game… they could’ve made it an indie animation…

[@MikeGemi]

Time, effort, will power, creativity, and luck.... and a little bit more will power

[@seamees4022]

2:05 I can never escape tf2 even after a decade later

[@LuckyThirtyEight]

pootis

[@eduardoazevedo4514]

I recently started playing half life and yeah the games looks bad but theres so much passion and fun gameplay, it really bothered me playing the last of us wherexmost objects you cant interact with but in half life you can take a chair thru the game.

[@weedGato]

Simply a genre difference, not a big fan of those tlou types games myself

[@Thrackerzod8]

not sure if you're talking about Half Life 1 or 2, but i can definitely say that Half Life 2 still looks beautiful to this day.

[@eduardoazevedo4514]

@@Thrackerzod8 1 i haven't gonne around to 2 but yeah it looks really good

[@DongaKonga2]

im not sure half life is the best example. it is 26 years old. It kind of was the best a 3d game could look at the time.

[@andriychuck1194]

@@eduardoazevedo4514 Have you completed it ? I would like to hear your thoughts on "incredibly fun" final boss.

[@gchermes13]

I think plucky squire is a good game for kids and im really happy about that , any person can understand how to play it because is a really easy and simple experience with a lot of style

[@búbblengg]

Thank you foekoe for making a whole video appreciating Hello Neighbor 2. It truly is the greatest game ever.

[@tybt]

1:57 WAYSIDE MENTION IN CURRENT YEAR LET'S GO!!!!!!!!!!!

[@illymedo291]

A Day with Foe is really Koe

[@-Commit-arson-]

Blud is the type of game that would be better as a cartoon than a game

[@spidey5558]

It feels fitting that Massive Monster, the devs for Cult of the Lamb, promoted Plucky Spire on their server. Because both games have the same problem you pointed out: style over substance.

[@Fatih_M177]

I feel like we should invent a new term for this "genre" of games. Like, to me, they feel like games that are trying to capture that fantasy of wanting to explore more of "The Cartoon world", Or "Movie World" depending on like, what the style of the game is. Cause imagine this, you're looking at a scene from Dexter, and you're like "Oh man, that city background looks dope, wish i could explore it", and a game like #Blud, fills in that void. I dunno, maybe it's me who thinks that way, but that's the type of vibe I'm getting from these types of games.

[@a18yearoldonyoutubeluigi]

4:05 thanks for reminding about the genius that went into Getting Over Its brief bit of dialogue. It’s short but effective in communicating its message, it feels more like a video essay than video game dialogue, and that’s what gives it such a unique flavour.

[@doctordice2doctordice210]

There’s no such thing as “all style no substance” because the visual ideas, tones, are in themselves substantive

[@MillyKKitty]

For devs, it is always smarter to work with what you are best at. And by that I don't mean making an entire game right then and there, but first making a small project. Yes, the game jam or a smaller little game. The creator of In Stars and Time, an amazinginly written game btw, started like that. She had learned to never go full-in to a passion project, and spend a decade working on it. Never do a Richard Williams. They made the game first as a little 2 hour experience to see if they were down to do it. And what happened? They were down for it, and even got the support of a distributor through their little game.

[@MillyKKitty]

Is this comment secretly trying to coerce the reader into playing In Stars and Time? A little story game with a pretty easy turn-based RPG with lovable well-written characters, which I love as much as the entirity Deltarune and Omori, without trying to overhype the game so your expectations aren't too high? Haha, imagining it.

[@klickonthat5244]

The phrase "don't pull a Richard Williams" slapped me across the face.

[@umamifan]

Seen In Stars and Time. Looks comparatively boring in comparison to Omori and Deltarune.

[@MillyKKitty]

@@umamifan The gameplay being like that serves a narrative purpose. But I get that if it isn't your cup of tea. I personally enjoy the story much more than Omori, mostly because I feel like some parts of Omori drag on unintentionally.

[@umamifan]

@@MillyKKitty It just looks unfun. Omori got parts like that too (I think almost every game got parts like this), but In Stars and Time, it is mostly the entire game since it revolves around that main theme. But making the player attempt to relate to the experience, by making the experience itself also repetitive, doesn't make much sense to me, from a dev standpoint. I do like the characters though.

[@2Galxy]

Great video, and great critique. I’m surprised how fast you make these videos, they are of great quality!

[@ma.2089]

The Benette Foddy quote brings me back to Yandere Sim when I think of bad game design. I remember wondering how he would make the game function and he never did. He spent so much time refining random things into that cement, but the clay was never put in the right places to begin with. Personally it’s surprising to me how ppl miss it. Some bad designs are super apparent.

[@zelatoth]

I remember Ben Yahtzee Croshaw saying that before you even think about visuals, story or anything else. Start with an empty room, put a dude in there and mess around with mechanics until that alone is enjoyable. Once you know what kind of interactive form your interactive media is going to take then you can think about art design, audio, etc. The stuff that isn't interactive.

[@jude4581]

I was so hyped for the Plucky Squire only for me to finish in a week and not think about it once after I beat it.

[@a_very_silly_guy]

ANOTHER CRABS TRESURE SPOTTED 9:34

[@Mr_RR-the-dedede-enjoyer]

I think i still want to play these games

[@tuluflulu]

I have played #BLUD, and I quite liked it. It ain't perfect though. Dungeon design is kinda basic, and there's missable collectables. But even with those issues, I still think it's neat. It's clearly the studio's first game, but maybe a sequel could improve things.

[@Sappysappster]

I thought this was going to be a pretentious "Ugh these games have no depth or substance! All they have is style!" type video But after actually watching it i believe you're right in your conclusion All these games are impressively stylish but their gameplay is pretty lackluster (which, unless youre a visual novel, isnt really a good thing) Good video 👍

[@unquestionableexistance8704]

You don't come to Foekoe for pretty slop

[@ivoneo2806]

I disagree and I'm pretty sure it can if u aren't a visual novel?

[@sgtkilgore45]

I thought blud was really good despite its flaws.

[@dataecto6135]

"Thank you for ruining my life, Bennet Foddy" Bennet was my advisor in college so this gave me a good laugh LMAO (he's great)

[@jurtheorc8117]

Ah dang, it's Becky Brewster from Blud on the thumbnail. On one hand i get where you're coming from, i feel the same way a bit. Got burned out about two thirds through the game trying to 100% it (that's partially on me) and most bosses annoyed me. On the other hand, there is still a lot about Blud that i do *really* like and i wouldn't have played it all the way to the end if i didn't like what i played. Enjoyed all the talking with people and the taking of pictures, i really like the world and characters, and i'm excited for the upcoming DLC. I wish the devs a lot of good luck on future ventures.

[@Cubeytheawesome]

I hear you. The freezer section when you’re placing the nexus devices is extremely hard because you have to move these ice blocks and not have them melt. It’s really annoying. Also the bosses are extremely annoying. Why did they do so well for the first 3 but the rest are just those 2 Vampires (and evil Steve Jobs)

[@jurtheorc8117]

@@Cubeytheawesome Yah, the Soucouyants (fire vampire ladies) are annoying for that. The mechanic for the ice blocks as is, is fine, but it feels dragged out. Forgot to mention this, but the devs' love for vampire lore does show! Nearly all of the names are taken from real mythology about vampiric creatures. It was a treat to recognize the Soucouyants, Strzyga, Redcaps and others! I hear you on the bosses too. Dragur is a *menacing* and awesome presence in the game for sure, and in a way it does extend to his boss encounters-- but in a way that falls over the limit of being unfair. Or at least, a difficulty spike. That bloodsucker seems to have a different attack for every of the eight directions that he combos into one another and the downtime is very little. For what it's worth, i had some fun with the Punch-out style boss against Geoff Freya.

[@shamtrue]

I feel like "All Style, No Substance" is something I've seen a lot within the Mascot Horror space, biggest example being Bendy and the Ink Machine, which inspired the wave of Poppy and Poppy clones, where style substitutes for the substance, instead of working in tandem with the substance like my personal favorite of the genre "Baldi's Basics Plus", which puts the genuine gameplay first meshing it together extremely well with it's aesthetic, creating a genuinely fun and addicting roguelike loop of strategizing through random mazes whilst collecting what you need to get out

[@CLtheDragon]

Don’t diss Bendy it doesn’t deserve hate

[@shamtrue]

@@CLtheDragon I very much dislike Bendy personally, and I will express my thoughts because that is a large part of my opinion on it, you can like Bendy, but I'm still gonna fucking diss Bendy for the same reasons I'd diss any of what it inspired (Poppy, Banban, Muzy, etc.)

[@shamtrue]

(Hell, Euphoric Bros have a cleaner track record than JDS)

[@CLtheDragon]

@@shamtrue JDS actually listens to criticism and the devs have improved as people

[@shamtrue]

@@CLtheDragon You replied to me? Telling me not to diss Bendy? Then I push back because I don't like Bendy and say that historically Faris and Ghepo just generally do have a cleaner track record which to my knowledge is a fact and you tell me not to bother replying?

[@zurro311]

Idk man, I like guys with good style. Even when there's no "gameplay", it's still fun to play through. It's a reason why I enjoy Outcore, not much gameplay, but have very charming visuals.

[@jurtheorc8117]

Some other games with cool style that are worth looking into, are - Clash: Artifacts of Chaos, personal favourite - Cookie Cutter, personal favourite - No Straight Roads, personal favourite - Magenta Horizon - Amanita Design's games - The games by Zoink! and their newly (re?)formed studio Moonhood, which are working on The Midnight Walk - Lost in Random: The Eternal Die - Decline's Drops - Antonblast - Genokids - Soulstice (mainly in terms of effects, weapons and character/creature designs) , personal favorite. - Kraino Rebirth - Paradigm - Near-Mage - The Dungeon Experience - Papetura (and the new game that the dev of Papetura is working on) - Bad Boro - My Familiar - Resistor - Voidwrought (looks rather Hollow Knight-ish on one hand, but there's also enough that makes it feel like its own thing to me) - Ruffy and the Riverside - Immortal: And the Death that Follows - Pillory - Pipistrello and the Cursed Yoyo - The Eternal Life of Goldman and there may be more that I am forgetting

[@magic2546]

I honestly think to many people forget that a game can still be fun and enjoyable without being challenging. Difficulty can be fun, but not every game needs to be like them, and sometimes people just want to play something more chill.

[@raymaniqe1906]

​​​@@magic2546 a game can be easy yet still offer depth on gameplay to keep the players interested

[@JOKERLIQUIDWALL_yt]

yeah, this video explains one of the problems i have with some indie games. they put more care into everything but the gameplay. its either so boring it feels like nothing playing it, or so complicated it takes people away from what the game has to offer. most of it is just nit-picky but you get what i mean

[@xboxhaslag_69]

ALL STYLE! NO SUBSTANCE! WEAK! CRUSH! THY END IS NOW!

[@BeautifulDuwang-gk6pj]

JUDGEMENT!

[@Phoeboi]

Ah. Free.. at last.

[@BeautifulDuwang-gk6pj]

@@Phoeboi O Gabriel, now dawns thy reckoning.

[@33cowss]

I think the best way to describe these games is 'better watched than played'

[@k1ng_chicken]

Wow, the style on these games actually are really nice.

[@jurtheorc8117]

The styles of Cookie Cutter, Zet Zillions, Decline's Drops, Kraino Rebirth, No Straight Roads, The Eternal Life of Goldman, Lost in Random, The Midnight Walk and Genokids are very cool too. Can recommend looking into all of those.

[@quvuergatulyai980]

​@@jurtheorc8117 100% agreed on all of these

[@Metalc]

0:16 gw2 mentioned 🙏🙏🙏

[@saeculiao7339]

Thanks foekoe for making a video where you call two of wishlist games mid

[@ajdndbdjbdj]

Thank you, i really get mad when people hate on me for disliking games that are doodoo in terms of gameplay but has a cool style

[@Emmycron]

honestly described my feelings exactly with a lot of indie games i picked up because they looked cool, especially the "formulaic roguelite with bullet hell patterns" where you can tell the devs never played and studied why bullet hell games work. you don't dodge patterns like that with a hitbox that big. it comes off as sloppy and blatant trend chasing. don't even get me started on vampire survivors and its army of clones

[@leonzchannelz]

The animation in blud is insane

[@r.g.thesecond]

We need a follow-up video called "all substance no style"

[@redking36]

Dwarf Fortress

[@MyHandleIsAplaceholder]

That one ragdoll videogame joeseppi played and gave it an 8.5/10

[@thereuploader]

All herbs and spices, no kentucky fried

[@xKubomi]

hey, i plan on creating my own indie game in the future. this video was really useful to know what not what to do when i do eventually start, thanks for that goat 🙏

[@jurtheorc8117]

Be sure to look up other people's views on these subjects too. Foekoe's tastes may be agreed upon by some, and disagreed by others. Some parts of enjoyment can differe from person to person.

[@SketchHusk]

The wild part is that I have been eyeing on all that were discussed here-even Flintwood despite being within a genre I do not often play-but the one game that comes to mind I actually played was "Paper Mario: The Origami King". It was a pretty striking Nintendo game to bring up, and a AAA-game to boot, so it is no surprise that I of all people remember this more vividly than a game that I do not enjoy PLAYING, but enjoy WATCHING. I recall this as the pure middle ground in presentation of Paper Mario games with a tint of what was against Super, not counting Paper Jam. On your right side is the classic and Thousand-Year Door in story telling except that it is pretty bizarre regardless of it still being good from impressions I got. Then on the middle is the Super of reinventing the entire battle system with something of it own, in which I get to the part where, on the left of the Sticker Star and Color Splash in godawful gameplay, the entire aspect is basically *_constant_* puzzle-solving instead of actual battling to the point of needless irritation that I gave up after the FIRST world despite it being borrowed from a friend who might not even know what game they are playing and will probably not play it again anytime soon.

[@thegreatgod1371]

As someone who wants to be gamedev later, it’s some helpful tips to hear! Thank you!

[@jc_art_]

1:16 THANK YOU for bringing up Into The Pit for this, it was literally what i was thinking of when i read the title! Its such a bad game, but the art, music, and tiny details are amazing. Its nowhere near amazing enough to make it cost as much as it does, especially since i paid for a "game" and got... well.. not a game. What made the game great only outshines the bad when you watch it on KZbin. When you actually play the "game" yourself, its such a slog. I wish i just watched a youtuber play it instead of experiencing it myself, which is the exact opposite of the case for every other game in the series (besides the troll games and UCN, those can stay on youtube lol). The most gameplay enjoyment i got out of Into The Pit was the classic arcade games they reskinned to look like freddy fazbear, like frogger, space invaders, those minigames. They were significantly more enjoyable than the entire rest of the game, and i can literally go play those for free on a browser right now if i wanted.

[@chronictimewasterdisease]

ok now i want to know about games that are ALL substance and absolutely NO style

[@OldyAlbert]

Maybe somthing like Dwarf Fortress? Style is subjective, but in the prase "All style no substence videogame" it means specifically that alot of work was put into graphics, not just that is looks cool to somebody. So example would be games with very simplistic graphics but complex mechanics. I'm a big fan of Frogmonster and Environmental Station Alpha - again, i do find them to have a distinct style, it's just that visuals were clearly not the focus.

[@AussieAlex]

Best answer is Cruelty Squad and it isn't even close. Some of the best immersive sim gameplay I've ever had juxtaposed by the most assautling visual style I've ever seen. I wanted to rip my eyes out after an hour, had to refund.

[@animetrapstar05]

The OG Roguelikes (Rogue, Hack, NetHack).

[@redking36]

I saw a video about a game called "Cogmind" which is basically robots with Dwarf Fortress combat (and maybe mixed with Battletech? I haven't played Battletech). It looks absolutely insane and equally hair-rippingly frustrating. There's also a decent strategy game called Mainframe Defenders, which is a turn-based strategy game where you build your robots with different combat styles and go on various missions to secure materials or eliminate threats. The final mission is to defend the datacenter from waves of enemies, and the missions up to that point are to build up your robots to be prepared. The mechanic that makes it somewhat interesting is the heat management system, since each action generates heat, and overheat causes significant damage to the bots.

[@supersayen0679]

Yeah, Flinthook was a game I was enjoying until I realised all the runs kinda felts similar.

[@MochaSlushes]

I mean tbh I would **much** rather play all style no substance games than the 92737492th trend-hopping deckbuilder/horde survival/tower defense/whatever the hell roguelite

[@CrustyFox87]

Same, those genres don’t interest me at all (except for roguelikes/roguelites, I’ve been enjoying Dead Cells a lot recently and have interest in checking out Isaac)

[@MochaSlushes]

@@CrustyFox87 no, all of the indie devs nowadays are making deckbuilder, horde survival and tower defense roguelites (roguelite is less a genre now and more a descriptor of gameplay and metaprogression) for money and popularity, not creativity

[@CrustyFox87]

@@MochaSlushes Yeah, deckbuilders don’t look interesting to me either, I was never a card game guy

[@CrustyFox87]

@@MochaSlushes also horde survival and tower defense are pretty boring too lol

[@MochaSlushes]

@@CrustyFox87 the only one I like is Inscryption and even then people have nitpicked it to hell and back so

[@sirlambchops.]

9:29 SPIRITFARER MENTIONED FOEKOE YOU ARE AWESOME

[@jairdinh7563]

Can absolutely agree with these points for me this type of problem was in Hauntii I overall enjoyed the game however getting through it was painful.

[@_Ferin]

You did a great job voicing the musician in the Darkwood video! shocked to recognize you immediately upon hearing it

[@cl2yaa]

Hawktoe

[@RukaRequiemoriginal]

hawk tuah

[@Foekoe]

🙁

[@KartvelArca]

​@@Foekoe such misfortune

[@cl2yaa]

@@Foekoe would you rather hawkoe

[@SUPERLEAF026]

Gyattkoe!!!

[@sea_ferret]

Foekoe? On my feed? In 2024? Joyous!

[@mattb8075]

I understand the criticisms of Flinthook, but I have quite a bit of time in that game, and I enjoyed my time with it. I was juat waiting for Tribute to make a huge hit like Shredder's Revenger because you know that team had it in them.

[@sircombat3259]

I love this video. I really like watching people’s thoughts and critiques on games to help further my own ideas, most notably you and another by the name of Nitrorad. The part where you mentioned Bennet Foddy really helps as it shows I should be careful with how I should plan out my game and the very shape I need to mold it into. If i mess up, I might have to go a completely different direction. Which would suck personally cuz the world I made really sticks to me.

[@aimsane123]

Yoo i saw you in darkwood, congrats in being a voice actor in pyros video.

[@cyanidethefox2160]

this is something i need to keep in mind. I'm still in the molding phase of my game, and I've had so many things I've experimented with so far and I'm trying to prototype a small level for a few friends and family to play. if they struggle and don't have fun, its back to the drawing board. fun is my #1 priority, looks is #2.

[@snowfox6795]

you had me at Flinthook. I wanted to love that game, it's just so weirdly designed in general, a roguelike but takes so long to do a full runthrough

[@Josuh]

Fr

[@Anarqism]

10:00 destroty

[@berrybeat]

Plays simple game expects depth You've been spoiled

[@chaoticcritical9335]

This is a great video and a rest great review. I love how you didn’t just insult and decimate them lol and instead brought up their flaws and strengths

[@garbotoxin_enthusiast]

now I want to see the reverse. games that are all substance but no style

[@jurtheorc8117]

Pong.

[@griin6]

Rogue

[@goldenhorse4823]

Loop hero

[@bbrainstormer2036]

Wizard with a Gun is another great example. It has such an amazing style, and a cool concept, but it just falls flat. Looking forward to Sulfur though.

[@rainbowresorts]

I disagree with your takes on plucky squire. Cozy games with low skill floors and slower paces arent "weak" and im tired of hardcore gamers saying this.

[@dondigao1057]

YOOOOOOOO! He said idea correctly 5:30

[@akkarides]

Idee

[@WhimsicottFanatic]

I dunno man, I think it's fine for games to not be some mindblowing masterpiece Sometimes, a game is mid and that's perfectly fine Part of that is because expecting every game to be some masterpiece is precisely why the entertainment industry is in the unsustainable shithole it's in now, from movie studios spending almost a billion dollars on slop nobody wants to watch, to Sony spending $200 million [potentially TWICE that, but I don't think there's any hard, definitive proof to that claim] on a live service game it'd Old Yeller within two weeks Suffice to say, a mid game that had a mid or lower budget is pretty fine in my book, and wouldn't you know, that tends to be the dictionary definition of most indie games But also there's the fact that I think there's just the issue of "You're an adult now" And I don't mean "Oh, you're too old to be the target audience" Like, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that any kid who grew up playing video-games hasn't had a game that could be considered mid For every Kirby and the Amazing Mirror, NSMB DS, or Sonic Heroes I had, I also had SpongeBob Revenge of the Flying Dutchman, Yoshi's Island DS, and Shrek the Third, and ultimately I played and enjoyed all these games-some more than others, unsurprisingly, but still enjoyed it But now, to actually get to the point, as an adult, you're wrung out for more of your time either from a job or a hobby-turned-job [sounds fucking miserable btw], you're the one paying for games instead of your parents, and you're also in full control of just what games you're getting, so if a game doesn't feel entirely worth your time and money, it stings that little bit more But hey, that's just my thinkin' Personally, I've been enjoying my time with Plucky Squire, maybe that's just because I am a Kirby enjoyer so I've got inherent acceptance to the lack of significant mechanical depth, and really the only thing that's been taking a hit on my experience is its performance-and I think that's probably just a Certified Nintendo Switch Moment™️ more than anything Like I'm not a snob on framerate, I do not care if a game runs a max of 60 or 30, but I _do_ care when it gets inconsistent

[@natalimoina]

Crazy take, indie games are stomping the competition. So many masterclass indies that it's quite literally impossible to play them all

[@jurtheorc8117]

Based on your first two paragraphs, i second what you speak. A game can be a "just fine" experience on its own, its own ups and downs and in-betweens, with its own flavor. Papetura for example-- a short point-and-click game made entirely from paper (and the dev is working on something new, also with paper) that i am unlikely to replay anytime soon. And i don't regret the time that i *have* put into it to play it through to the end. I enjoyed it. Harold Halibut is a game that i felt like it wasted my time here and there, but nevertheless was a very ambitious and complete story too that has a unique flavour which i couldn't find anywhere else with parts that i was glad to marvel at, cry at and laugh at, even amidst the tedium of walkign around. I only finished it recently after a break of various months, and i am glad to have seen the story through in full. Generally i'm just picky with games, which does make things a bit easier in managing choices. I like what i like, i get passionate about some games if there is a deep or long-time resonation, some i care less for, and generally i hope people will give the proverbial smaller guys and lesser-known titles a chance. From Zet Zillions to Clash: Artifacts of Chaos, from No Straight Roads to My Familiar, from Soulstice to Lost in Random, from Cookie Cutter to Decline's Drops to Kraino Rebirth to Near-Mage and many, many more.

[@LuckyThirtyEight]

no substance, style only, final destination

[@lylelylecrocodile2538]

That's a weird way of saying Sonic frontiers

[@toottootsonicwarrior5777]

What "style" does Sonic Frontiers have when its still using the same butt ugly, dated models from over a decade ago?

[@lylelylecrocodile2538]

@@toottootsonicwarrior5777 the Titan fights

[@toottootsonicwarrior5777]

@@lylelylecrocodile2538 Ha, yeah that's true.

[@polarpugthecasual9381]

I love how Foekoe is just as good at critiquing games as he is completing them :)

[@cactoos9793]

If I ever make a video game thats absurd, wacky, and has a cool style but lacks interesting/engaging gameplay, I hope it doesn't end up in one of these types of review videos.

[@StaticGarble]

FINALLY! SOMEONE ELSE WHO REMEMBERS WAYSIDE!!

[@iampete3710]

ROCK AND STONE

[@taiscommentingaccount]

I personally think Little kitty big city is good at what it is A small lil game you can finish in a few hours and feel happy from it It's precious and lovely, and in such a miserable current world I think that should be valued more

[@bN_isheeere]

Foekoe if you keep pretending Super Meat Boy Forever is bad I'm gonna go insane like I don't even like it like that but everyone acts like it's so awful when it's pretty good

[@Josuh]

It's fucking fire

[@Ethan-yd4gn]

The best games succeed in every department

[@NovakTrajkovic-mf1hs]

I've been really hyped for The Plucky Squire, so I haven't watched anything about it, to go in blind, but I'm still waiting for a discount (because it's kinda expensive)! And know, Foekoe says that the gameplay is mid, which makes me come into it with a negative viewpoint :(

[@derple8524]

I think you should still try it out yourself, Foekoe makes a good point about some things. But you might be surprised and like it yourself. I've played games that get hate on yet I still love them. But definitely wait for a sale if your still not sure

[@jurtheorc8117]

@@derple8524 I strongly second thine comment. The most concrete way to know if you'll jive with something, is to try it out directly. I mainly speak in terms of games in this instance.

[@WusterWasti]

Foekoe is a hardcore gamer that plays many games and completes them to 100%. His views are coming from this perspective, doesnt mean its better than yours its just different. Just like the other people said, just play it and experience it for yourself. We tend to let the internet say what is "fun" and forget to experience it ourself first.

[@juanandrealvarezmeza6179]

It would be fun to see a video on the opposite. Games with mediocre o simple presentations but with great gameplay.

[@madnard8744]

Most Indie devs give you a magnificient looking game but forget that it's a game

[@otherlego]

How I felt abt GRIS, which is why I’m excited for the next game which looks better and looks more like an actual game

[@HonaJonah]

most? he gave a total of three examples

[@natalimoina]

Flat out wrong

[@Ikarusu]

@@otherlego gris is amazing it did not need like a farming or rpg system if thats what you meant, its pretty and tells a story and a lot are satisfied with that, dont think games are obliged to follow a rule.

[@otherlego]

@@Ikarusu I don’t want a farming or rpg system lol I just think the gameplay was kinda lackluster edit: elaborating on this, they couldve done more with the platforming mechanics. it was incredibly easy for the most part

[@DoubleCheckTheFacts]

No the plucky squire is fire 🔥 you are wrong

[@static134]

Plucky squire was fire you were nitpicky and biased. I win bye-bye

[@Grayson-tk5hn]

nuh uh i win bye bye

[@deciradoxytp1771]

@@Grayson-tk5hn no everyone loooses eyb eyb

[@DeputyDexin]

Nice usage of the going under ost

[@Jonathing]

I've been enjoying these kinds of games though because they don't make them like this anymore. It's a breath of fresh air I haven't had in a while.

[@jurtheorc8117]

Would the likes of Clash: Artifacts of Chaos, No Straight Roads, Cookie Cutter, Judero, the games by Moonhood, Zoink! and Amanita Design, Zet Zillions, Papetura (and the upcoming game by Papetura's dev), Magenta Horizon, Decline's Drops, Immortal: And the Death that Follows, Ruffy and the Riverside, My Familiar, The Dungeon Experience, Near-Mage and The Eternal Life of Goldman be to your interest as well? (i'm sure there's more cool games in both style and substance that i'm forgetting about)

[@Jonathing]

​@@jurtheorc8117 duly noted. Thank you, kind internet stranger.

[@jurtheorc8117]

@@Jonathing You're welcome. These suggestions came quite unprompted but i duly hope that they will prove to be of interest and joy to you. Have a good october and beware of the wild Jack-o-Lanterns!

[@Jonathing]

@@jurtheorc8117 happy spooky month indeed

[@tunes-h9y]

bro i got 5 ads just to watch this just because i got 3 ads when i got in the video and got a double ad when i put it back to 0:00