We do a bit of Circlet buying PepeLaugh - WC3

If you've seen my Warcraft 3 Items tierlist, you might remember that we ranked Circlet of Nobility in S tier. Today you'll see why this ranking is well deserved!
We do a bit of Circlet buying PepeLaugh (Game played on We do a bit of Circlet buying PepeLaugh 15-September-2024)
Merch: grubby-shop.fo...
Commentary channel: / @grubbytalks
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#Grubby #Games #Strategy #Multiplayer #Competitive #Circlets #OP

[@Jashinthegiant]

In the second game, the difference from the small stat boost really shines. Without double circlet this would not have been possible whatsoever

[@goomshill]

They're small but not insignificant. Especially when BM is only level 1. Without items he's 28.5 DPS x 701.8 EHP (20k) and 3.2 casts of WW. With 2x circlets, he's 33.5 DPS x 876.2 EHP (30k) and 4.0 casts of WW. That's a full +50% overall combat effectiveness, ie if a level 1 blademaster with 2x circlets right clicked one without, he'd win with about 215/650 HP remaining. that's the best case scenario though, blademaster the most stat intensive hero, at level 1 with the least stats. Just getting a ring of protection can wind up better even a few minutes into the game and especially on other heroes, and not worth the slot mid/lategame.

[@dinhnghi3642]

​​@@goomshill thank for the math, nerd. It helps a nerd like me a lot

[@ShatteringSword]

As a professional Game Designer, I think the "problem" with manaburn is that it is on the best hero package you can get as NE. It would be ok as a viable counter to a certain game style. But you pretty much see it every NE game. If you sign up for a competitive game having to deal with oppressive styles is ok, if it is not your main game experience.

[@brianviktor8212]

I think the biggest problem is the amount of mana drained, basically punishing those with less mana the most as they are barred from even using their spare mana for spells, while those with big mana pools are less affected. The solution would be to drain mana in relative amounts of the target, like 15/30/45% of their maximum mana, capped at 75/150/225. It could also drain more of non-heroes, maybe up to the cap, so that it is a more versatile, and not just an anti-hero spell. So the DH would be an ideal counter to casters.

[@ericstaples7220]

​@brianviktor8212 The heroes with less mana deal more physical damage, thus depending on their mana less.

[@PonchoWC3]

What can you say about Blood Mage siphon mana and banish against DH

[@planetary-rendez-vous]

It's a "problem" but the thing is Demon Hunter carries the entire faction, Keeper, Warden and PotM really are situational heroes and it really shows how garbage they are that elf plays DH all the time. This fact means night elf is not properly designed, as how devs originally thought the game would play vs how it is played right now is very different.

[@brianviktor8212]

@@ericstaples7220 Sure, but they already have small mana pools, so they can use their abilities just a few times already. To punish them additionally with demon hunter's manaburn is unfitting.

[@dima1353]

The DPS of a level 2 blade with two circlelets and a level 1 critical strike is somewhere around the DPS of 4 headhunters without upgrades.

[@goomshill]

Gotta account for damage types too. Hero damage matters more since its reduced less. Medium and hero armor matter the most, and piercing from headhunters deals -25% to medium and -50% to heroes. That BM deals 40 DPS and the HH deal 43.3, but the blademaster still deals significantly more, almost twice as much to enemy heroes

[@bigstreetguns6619]

Taking revenge on the heinous elves.

[@nightsage217]

Damn elves take our ranks!

[@stillownya]

One of the best examples for a situation where cloak is actually really useful

[@zachariastsampasidis8880]

Cloak's buff was amazing. One of those qol buffs to an item that allows for so much more than you could imagine

[@stillownya]

@zachariastsampasidis8880 yeah definitely underrated, but there aren't many unique situations like this with a small gap to block, so its kinda refreshing to see.

[@zachariastsampasidis8880]

@@stillownya was so fucking amazing watching a nelf lose a full well, a wisp, the scroll of tp and an aow like that. Actual orgasm.

[@rezarthabili3353]

Man made cloak look like a god tier item that first game xD

[@adradox]

Blademaster with cloak: "I'm hero everyday"

[@stealthsquirrel4900]

A longer cooldown, higher cost, OR lesser effect on mana burn would be nice. Hell maybe even the same power but a shorter range to make him more vulnerable to ensare, stomp, storm bolt, coil nova etc. The idea is fine and interesting, its just overtuned compared to equivalent effects. Detonate costs wisps and wand is an item. Mana Siphon takes time and can be interrupted or tethered by distance or invisibility, plus the blood mage is more vulnerable while channeling and just in general less tanky than DH. A demon hunter sneezes 3 times in 20 seconds and 3 heroes are empty of mana.

[@dima1353]

Agility is a bit unbalanced and broken stat. In fact, there is not a single agile hero with agility gain higher than any other attribute and only 3 heroes have a gain higher than 1.5: Blade - 1.75, Warden - 1.6 and Firelord - 1.6.(It means that for 9 level-ups Warden or Firelord will receive 14, not 13 agility in total, like other heroes, and the Blademaster will get a staggering 15 agility.... lol). So the Circlet for agile heroes is even a bit better than level up. There is only one hero in Warcraft whose agility gain is not in last place - It's TC...Who would have thought that this old man is more into skateboarding practice than reading ? But he only has a 10 base agility, so that won't help him much.

[@dark3031]

Agility grants armor and attack speed, which is OK in War3 because heroes focusing on auto attack will be at disadvantage against other heroes with powerful spells. But this same mechanic was quite broken in Dota, they had to nerf the armor gain so much until it's not noticeable.

[@dima1353]

@@dark3031 In Dota, the increase in agility is comparable to the increases in other main attributes. They fixed it by nerf.

[@SyRose901]

​@@dima1353The two games are very hard to compare. Because you're building an army and not just a hero or two, being a melee unit is a pretty harsh downside. Yes, just having good range is enough to tilt the tide against a Blademaster. The agility heroes themselves rarely rely on Agility to function. In fact, it's really just Blademaster. The others have valuable spells that they use, to the point we forget they're Agility heroes. Such as Shadow Hunter, Warden, Firelord...

[@SyRose901]

If you just mean to say that Agility heroes get bad Agility growths instead of having the stat growth per Agility nerfed, then yeah. Just a different way to balance, nothing too broken here.

[@garagavia]

4:42 the evil laugh 😈

[@ross1158]

Jesus. I've been watching Grubby for so many years, been a sub for at least 3... and still get surprised about the knowledge he has about the game... and it's not the knowledge per se but more he feeling he has when he knows whether he'll win a fight or not (like vs the demon hunter). I've missed him pwning with orc vs really top EU players for a loooong time and im so glad this is back.

[@gzozgo]

The discussion at the end about the danger of removing things from well-designed games and "design by committee" makes me think of Rocket League, and the huge mistake they made by removing/homogenizing all the alternate arenas. A vocal minority would constantly complain about those arenas, but I think they LOVED to complain about them, partly because they made a convenient excuse for losing. The game is still okay but so much less interesting without those arenas.

[@Rethaxian]

Orange orc is legit a great color combo

[@constantinwagner8459]

Hi Grubby, can you play that BM Towerrush u mentioned?

[@FoRs1GhT]

What BGM are you using at the end? Makes for good Work-from-home / studying music!

[@justanobody0]

the first game with blade it seems you really countered that dh well (especially knowing what the player was going to do)

[@gavinriley]

The Grub Flex is real

[@stegan2531]

wow gj grubby that was a masterclass

[@stickymoney]

These games felt GREAT!

[@МихайлоМатвєєв-у3й]

Grubby is the Mikhail Tal of Warcraft 3❤

[@Accelerat0r-]

The Hans Neimann reference cracked me up 😂

[@Soullifter0]

Buzzz buzz buzz. Move that peon

[@usualhumanxd353]

these games :D FeelsGoodMan

[@henriklarsson1538]

I just love watching you grubby!

[@datbunneh3671]

Mana burn just needs to cost more mana to cast. And perhaps slightly bigger cooldown. Why remove when you can nerf it?

[@robboss6685]

traumatised by ancient aisles 😂😂

[@thomasm8217]

Is it possible to do double circlet on fire lord unded with the ghoul item carrying? Do that.

[@majormajorasic]

Mana burn should just have cooldown scale with amount of mana burned.

[@Mattmt56]

Human, after all.

[@panhouska]

In the second game...why gloves of haste to SH? I would give gloves of strength instead... ?

[@rogerroger3423]

@Grubby . When is the next Harstem Video coming?

[@reubenthawmte8504]

Hey grubby, make a tier list of the creep camps

[@Overwatch9]

Wait, spirit walkers are now made in tauren totem? And in the 2nd upgrade? Makes a lot of sense tbh.

[@SyRose901]

They are Taurens, after all!

[@Overwatch9]

@@SyRose901 I think it's "Tauren" in plural too.

[@Querterus]

i thougt the town portal makes your hero imune how do u kill the deamon in game 1?

[@bigstreetguns6619]

@@Querterus that wasn't TP it was staff.

[@JB-jm6lo]

crits still 15%? i think i saw 3 between 8ish attacks

[@chrstphrth1714]

0:06 I'M ONLY HUUUUUUUUMAN

[@mintx1720]

Grubby should submit a is it imba or do I suck about night elfs to harstem

[@avtosvanadze6667]

how to buy this game guys ? give me link plz

[@emjizone]

23:58 Imagine _MineCraft_ without creepers.

[@TofuofLight]

What if mana burn cost 75 instead? Costing more would mean more moon juice spent on mana instead of health and lvl 1 mana burn is an actual trade off instead of mana burn and run away.

[@qbetrayer666]

They made it 60 manacost, everyone forgot about dh

[@sian0rz]

If I watched a dota game that looked as one sided as these matches, I would have reported the player as smurfing. There are just not enough quality players left in this game.

[@TheRealMycanthrope]

Grubby Fisher

[@njdarda]

i have to say this mogul guy is pretty sly (for a green guy)

[@lu2nam821]

10 minutes ago is arousing

[@Qwalt1]

NEED MORE COACHING

[@3Torts]

...I miss the tome of XP :/

[@TaseTea]

I think staff portal should be a different color than town portal

[@rotyler2177]

you can tell almost straight away if its 150 gold tp because hero will keep taking hits as the blue beam thing is beaming

[@iChryson]

Staff makes the TP sound effect at the start of the cast as well as the end. If you hear the sound, you know it's staff.

[@TaseTea]

@@rotyler2177 Right but it not very intuitive, when you see the blue ring your first thought usually is to target different enemy's

[@TaseTea]

@@iChryson In a game where there are 400 different sounds going on at the same time this doesnt help a lot, appreciate the response tho I didnt know that.

[@rotyler2177]

@@TaseTea nope not me. if hero is using 150 staff its because i was targetting him and hes running. i like to hold off on ensnare if i see hero has staff so i can catch him. harassing an expo then using staff is rather risky in my opinion

[@JB-jm6lo]

hard counter

[@AceVenturaWhenNatureCalls]

pillage

[@adeadcrab]

you see orc is not just for noobs

[@45johngalt]

orc was never for noobs

[@thescapegoat-xv1vu]

Like

[@KuramaEL]

mana is a very valuable resource. having a hero that removes mana from your hero while causing dmg and not being something channeled is just too powerful. and it is just frustrating. considerations: make it burn half the mana and double the dmg(same current dmg, but less mana burned) - straight nerf make it channeled as siphon mana - balance required, but able to counter give it possession/flamestrike treatment, where it has a wind up that can be interrupted - the one I would like to see. to me, without a redesign, it is either too good or too bad(by numbers only)

[@emjizone]

97% useless clics before combat.

[@macaronialhad322]

second

[@MegaBluesguy]

first

[@treestump101]

11:28 why the hell is that wisp on the left gray?

[@Wuh1988]

Most likely once the player left the game, the wisp came out as a neutral mob as the player was no longer in game. Even though it wasn't a new wisp being created, but that's just my best guess.

[@Dela3asensei]

15:10 turtle was the actual spy snake