What is Gareth Southgate’s legacy?

After four tournaments, two finals, a collection of excellent waistcoats and one flare up the arse, Gareth Southgate’s time as England manager is over. Today Marcus, Luke and Jim are here to reflect on what Southgate’s legacy will be once the dust has settled.
There's also the question of who comes next? Marcus explains why Eddie Howe might just have an advantage over Graham Potter in the race to become the next England manager. That advantage of course goes by the name of Jason Tindall…
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[@bengreenbank]

How did you manage to talk about Southgate’s reign for 30 minutes and not once mention the really obvious fact that so much of his success is just down to extreme luck of the draw? He managed to make a semi and two finals by only playing one top side, a pretty ragged Germany at their worst point in 20 years. This is a massive part of his relative success. Had we played Germany in the quarters this time we’d almost certainly have gone out like we did vs France in 2022. I’ve listened to this podcast for 16 years but your analysis of Southgate and the final are from a parallel universe

[@GERBOY90]

That’s such major oversight. Yes they go deep in the knock out stages aslong as they face inferior opponents. Spain have beating more top level teams in this knockout stage than England have in Southgate’s 8years in tournament football.

[@bengreenbank]

@@GERBOY90exactly. If Southgate had done what Sven did and drawn Portugal twice and Brazil in the ro8 and gone out which judging by his record you’d have to conclude he most likely would he’d be seen as a failure. So much of his on field success is just that we kept never playing good sides until right at the end of tournaments

[@Edge-of-Reason]

Luck was a thing but you also make your own luck. Presuming your comparing southgate era opponents to previous such as Argentina, France and Portugal then you avoid these early on because you win your group. Something that in days gone by was mostly not achieved

[@bengreenbank]

@@Edge-of-Reason there is some truth in this. But Southgate didn’t win his group in 2018 and we still had an easy route to the semi. Spain won their group and played France, Germany and England in the knockouts Southgate also got lucky in the groups themselves. It’s pretty common to get a top side in the groups but we had really easy groups in 20, 22 and 24. We only had a top side in 18 in Belgium which he comfortably lost to. It’s easy to win your group when you get easy groups. Sven got Argentina and France in the groups. Keegan got Portugal and Germany. Hodgson got Italy, Uruguay.

[@mesolithicman164]

Is anybody concerned that there are only 2 English managers with any kind of CV to qualify them for the job? How is that acceptable?

[@mega7070]

Graham Potter said the pressure was too much at Chelsea. That takes him out of the running of England job for me.

[@michaelreay6992]

Agreed

[@primateboogaloo]

The realisation pains me, but I honestly think we won't get chances like that to win a major tournament for years to come. Portugal, Germany, France (again), Spain (again), and others will be stronger in future tournaments

[@engurland]

But so might we. Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Palmer and Mainoo are all young players. More will come through.

[@primateboogaloo]

@engurland I'm not saying we don't have what it takes, but given how difficult it is for any nation to reach a final, the odds are against us. The fact that we've reached two in the last 3 tournaments suggests we've had our chance and ultimately didn't take it. Obviously I hope I'm proved wrong.

[@66kaisersoza]

Managers come and go, it's really not that deep. He was the England manager for 8 years. He had plenty of chances to make a mark and he has. Now it's time to move on and up. You can appreciate the job he's done and want more. Its ok lads

[@shen_baba]

Whem i think of Southgate i judge him as lucky. The draws were incredibly kind for him. He took 80% advantage of the kind draws but the 20% he couldn't (Croatia in 2018 and Italy at Wembley in 2021) hurt him.

[@simon7212]

First got to know the podcast in early group stages via youtube suggestion. Really enjoyed your coverage of the tournament, the fun, the balance, even made me cheer for England; greetings from Germany

[@prestonnevlogs1462]

People aren't annoyed bcuz wee didnt win it , theyre annoyed bcuz we saw that as soon ad we took the handbrake off and played the players who were exciting, we looked hreat and often played well and even scored in these moments. Thats where the frustration lies. Other than that, Southgate has been fantastic for England.

[@GERBOY90]

Playing boring football is fine when you are winning competitions, watching a team get to final limping past teams they should be controlling to only get to a final and get beat by a team that plays great football. 8years of Southgate and England are completely incapable of pressing as team, 8years and he doesn’t know that phil Foden or Jude Bellingham are not effective left wingers, 8years and he doesn’t have the balls to bench Harry Kane that is either injured or just had the biggest decline in a matter of months if ever seen of a footballer. Yes, people will remember that England got the Euro finals but they will also remember how they got there and it was fucking painful to witness

[@mesolithicman164]

Yes. If Southgate is remembered as our 2nd greatest manager because he was able to bore his way to a couple of finals with a system of anti-football then it says a lot about the poor calibre of punditry in the UK

[@user-zs2ug8no1c]

Across 4 tournaments, England played in 26 out of 28 rounds of fixtures.

[@congress-tart]

England as a subject really blinkers the Ramble it always has, It may be time to move all England chat to a separate pod at this point. Monday: ‘Teams fear us’ and now ‘He’ll (Southgate) will be looked upon culturally as a MASSIVE figure’

[@richardbunn3646]

I do find it interesting how he polarises people - some say his a conference league manager and then others saying his a great manager who we will regret losing. Personally think its somewhere in the middle - great spokesman for the team and man management but tactically was very poor. This tournament in particular he looked out of ideas and just went with what he knows best which is defence. Think as time goes on he will be looked on fondly - his work on pens potentially being a game changer for us.

[@pietiebeyers5237]

Southgate should see this video ❤💪

[@tatslikehats]

It's like listening to a Talksport hosted by people who think they have radical politics because they sometimes read the Guardian.

[@nz72120]

As always great podcast 👍

[@ATWOOD726]

Who did Southgate beat in a tournament that Sven wouldn’t have? Ridiculous revisionism

[@hyywe240]

Germany and the netherlands. The only teams sven knocked out of three tournaments was Denmark and Ecuador

[@ATWOOD726]

I appreciate they were group games, but England beat (effectively knocking out) Argentina and Croatia under Sven also…

[@entrenchgamer]

I love the show, guys. The football analysis and commentary are incredibly insightful. It reminds me of the early days of Gillet Soccer Saturday.tary are very astute. It brings back memories of the early days of Gillet Soccer Saturday.

[@frankmcloughlin7076]

Does it, by chance, give you recollections of Gillette Soccer Saturday?

[@Thomas...191]

I think tou guys massively overestimate how much the England job would appeal to those managers. Look at how well Southgate did and what he got for it. Expectations are to win the tournaments and smash teams 3-0... not very appealing to many managers I'd say.

[@badabing8884]

He did the best he could. The England manager’s job is even more than being a football coach. Too much is expected of the England manager to fix England’s problems. End of the day England weren’t good enough on the ball - retaining it and without the ball. It would have been a travesty if they have won that final. Spain completely outplayed England. We’re a moments team and the only way England can win a major trophy is to play defensive football and rely on moments of brilliance. If the next England manager is an attacking one and makes England play too open they will get spanked and go out earlier. Fans will then scream why the team can’t defend?!

[@mesolithicman164]

I can't believe that the paucity of English candidates is not a MAJOR factor in this discussion. It appears that in 4 senior divisions of English football there are only 2 viable candidates for the England job. And once you get past those two, it's Lee Carsley. How is that not a topic for the most serious of discussions? How can the most successful League in world foofball only offer up 2 candidates for the national manager job? And what does that say about the effectiveness of the FA in training future managerial talent. It says that there is a complete systemic failure, pure and simple.

[@fugaziishime]

Why is the football ramble broadcasting from southgates balls?

[@mesolithicman164]

I can't believe the garbage they said about GS. Maybe they're still giddy after getting to another final. I've spent the last 3 days in semi-deoression by the way that numbskull bottled it in the final. But it's absolutely typical of Southgate, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. And to be happy about Potter as the next manager? Wtf?

[@GERBOY90]

@@fugaziishime because when they talk about people that criticise Southgate they make them out to be Reform voting Gammons so they cant become the thing they hate the most

[@IggyGoesPop666]

Sorry but was Southgate a director of football or a Manager? If he was a manager he was OK, nothing more nothing less

[@azapro911]

Let's suppose that Gareth Southgate had won four consecutive major tournaments, playing exciting attacking football and made genial use of the entire squads available to him. Know what folk would say then? "Muh, well, he just got lucky with the draw, wouldn't have done anything twenty years ago when teams were so much greater!" That's the hiding to nothing the England job is, well out of it and commiserations to whichever poor mug is up next.

[@jd-mk3bz]

he didn’t do that though, he won nothing and lost to every single team he’s come up against that are better than england. Horrific, dreadful equivalence from you

[@Civilian95]

World Cup 2026 they appoint someone new they will not leave the group sack him get Gareth back for the Euros 2028 where he wins it making it for one of the greatest stories in football ever…. Let’s see 🤣

[@mesolithicman164]

I think that's meant to be satire, at least I hope no one could actually _believe_ that scenario.

[@EncoreASMR]

Hoofball apologists.

[@xBigBean]

Are you guys ever going to talk about the copa america? Not a word all tournament. Kind of a joke really

[@frankmcloughlin7076]

Jeez, these guys are so flippin' deluded. The England job is way beneath either Klopp or Guardiola...

[@dragonfire4957]

Legacy? Most boring football i have ever made my poor eyes watched. Still will get a knighthood, everyone does!