For Honor Basics Ep #4 - Frame Advantage

[@JackStarrow]

Thanks Freezus

[@massivegat5087]

Grrrrr why do you still believe in Freezus?

[@MoronAbound]

Glad to see this is already making the rounds

[@Mattman_90]

This series is great. Brushing up on the fundamentals always helps players improve. On a side note, there's an amazing video on KZbin called "Why button mashing doesn't work" by Core A Gaming that explains a lot of the fundamentals of traditional fighting games, I know that doesn't have anything to do with For Honor but I invite the comparison because this video series like that video does an excellent job of explaining mechanics that the game doesn't and some struggling players might struggle to learn on their own. Top notch stuff Freeze.

[@gankus_aurelius4518]

Core A gaming has great vids and I recommend to those that want to understand fighters a bit better

[@gust.t.showbiz7017]

Warmommy’s constant frame advantage makes her such a nuisance to fight when you don’t have the reaction time to parry lights attacks.

[@ChaosLemonVIII]

That's my main gripe about her

[@BlicedSread]

Its not so bad on console because everyone does the same fucking combo on her lol

[@mongrelshadow14]

Warmonger's design teaches you not to passively play by only blocking. If you can't parry her lights even semi often then forget trying to parry them and learn to read how she plays so you can punish her bash or parry her heavies/zone to start your own offense.

[@ChaosLemonVIII]

@@mongrelshadow14 that's just plain asinine considering lights are meant to be unreactable. She dictates the flow of combat in a way no other hero can, don't fool yourself.

[@bournechupacabra]

If make a correct read on the bash you get a gb. I agree it's probably a bit too much but it's not impossible to deal with. The frame advantage should only apply to the bash which means that she doesn't get frame advantage with her light light chain

[@laytonbreckenridge9951]

Holy shit I’ve played for honor for like 3 years now and I didn’t even know this, this is good to know against certain characters

[@illiciousD]

No denying that ubi should really work on the "new player experience", especially if they ever hope to see player counts rise and stabilize. The campaign and most in game tutorials are outdated to hell, not to mention all of the new (and old) mechanics that are completely ignored. The Hero Trials were a solid addition but those alone are simply not enough for new players to get a grip imo. Kudos to Freeze for doing what he can to remedy it

[@rosaleeweist519]

The campaign is going to stay that way because the devs said it was a way to establish "how far" the game has come since release.

[@briangallegos669]

This definitely helped me understand this. Now I've just got to learn what the result of every move vs every move is. Thanks, FH.

[@AsianSadge]

Welcome to fighting games

[@briancaddo9723]

Can we just point out that the community complains about light spam so the devs release a character with superior lights and a light frame advantage.

[@ElficGuy]

Yep, and fast as an assassin

[@ryth7703]

there is no such hero

[@briancaddo9723]

XD

[@Rainbowboy-sv5fw]

This series has been wonderful so far, hope there is more to come!

[@donnielowe7948]

Hey freeze, your content is normally aimed at players at a much higher skill level than I am at, but these fundamentals videos are really helping me understand what I'm supposed to know about a fight. I don't have a lot of experience with other types of fighting games so it has been a challenge understanding what I need to be doing or why I need to be doing it. I'm sure these basics videos are a good refresher for experienced players, but I think newer players like myself appreciate having someone teach them the things that aren't explained within the game. Thanks for all the great videos.

[@hunterraby3459]

Honestly I never stop learning from watching your videos and you’ve been my go to since I got the game 3 years ago. Love them all.

[@blackdojo]

A video on this is what i need i've been away a bit and trying to figure things out for each character has me racking my brain

[@yungmalaria]

Idk freeze, I think Im A negative not frame negative, but good vid

[@cashydude3285]

I’m not A negative but I think I’m A mistake

[@cathalduffy3739]

Please please please continue this series!! I know most of the stuff you are covering but learn something new every time. I knew that after landing a light finisher, you were frame disadvantaged, but a heavy finisher gives frame advantage (in general)?!?! Wow, that should help.

[@snwlvl634]

I mean like if you don’t parry warmonger, it’s always warmongers turn on the offensive

[@fkkfreeze]

ye, she has infinite stamina

[@mongrelshadow14]

She's frame negative after chain finisher lights just as any other hero is. Zhanhu is another character that nearly always retains advantage as well.

[@mongrelshadow14]

@@WhirlwindHeatAndFlash Transitioning into bullwark takes time. It's only instant off block. And in both cases you can make a read and GB him. it's hardly a safe option to use. The only busted thing about flip is that it for some reason does stamina damage.

[@mongrelshadow14]

@@WhirlwindHeatAndFlash uh yeah. Once he's started flipping you can't GB him out of it. Just like every other move you can only GB in start up. My GB comment was specifically talking about GBing him as he flows into bulwark. He's also not invulnerable during the flip. He can take damage. Just not during his active flip frames.

[@AsianSadge]

@@mongrelshadow14 zhanhu is disadvantaged on his finisher light

[@Ben-cw2ey]

The warmongers advantage is what basically everyone is using when playing her, light bash light 2.0

[@confusedcitizen3483]

Thank u for the vid. Your litteraly the only one to make one about frame advantage

[@StormKnight1]

The fact that watermelon man can hug you, heal from it, damage you, and get a light after is just stupid.

[@Richard3rd665]

Big fan of this series so far Freeze. Very informative and concise. Great work

[@bournechupacabra]

I'm fine with the idea of some characters having special moves that grant frame advantage. It's another balancing mechanic that can make characters more interesting. But I do agree that it feels a bit oppressive on warmonger. That property would go a lot better on something like shaolin's kick to light

[@sh4unzy-za610]

Thank you for doing these videos in order to help the community ♥️

[@awerechimp1517]

i really liked the TG changes other than dmg numbers being all over the place, but i havent had the same fun with the ccu.

[@dogzabob]

This is going to sound stupid. But could you do a tutorial on how to block and parry. I face players who can block and parry everything post CCU but I can barely do either

[@logangillett7769]

Nice video! I was just shown the game a few weeks ago by a friend and it is very complicated. Most of the basics and advanced stuff I learnt because my friend is over rep 100. One thing I’m wondering is if there is any way I can practice counter guard breaks because I really am having trouble with it. Thanks

[@belugawhale8128]

If you launch training in the main menu, you can set up a bot to only preform 1 move by going into the start menu while in training and going to the "moveset" tab. You can select the characters entire moveset, so in this instance you'd want to have him only guardbreak so you can learn to counter it

[@FirstnameLastname-to9kw]

1. You just got the game, yet you already are a patron/sponsor of freeze. That's what I call determination. 2. Go into training, take any bot, level doesn't matter. Once you are loaded in, go into options, under "Arena Settings" check "Opponent Timing Feedback" and under "Custom Moveset", specifically under "Common", check "Guardbreak". Now, when facing the bot, pay attention to the little indication bar above the bot's head. CGB (counter guardbreak) when the indicator within that bar reached the white zone. That should be pretty decent practise for now, getting experienced in team-based modes, such as Dominion is key to get it into muscle memory. That's how I learned it, anyways. And don't pick the "Slippery" feat, it's a waste of a feat slot. Rather than letting the game do it for you, practise it yourself.

[@DarkStorm707]

Literally shared this with friends bc they needed to stop being mindlessly ignorant. Thanks man🤙✊

[@sandman3068]

Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like the devs have ignored the importance of frame advantage and how much it plays into balancing. I haven’t seen a way in game to learn about how much advantage or disadvantage an attack has. I came to this game from Tekken and at least there there were resources to find that information with exact numbers but with For Honor I’m at a loss. I’ve won matches in tekken just because I understood frames and turns better than my opponent. It just seems like it’s fundamentally missing sometimes and getting those small window punishes are more like shooting into the dark.

[@sandman3068]

Not saying I want the game like tekken either. I love how this is more of a casual fighting game. I just see potential for the devs to deepen their combat system by playing around with more nuanced mechanics like frame advantage and disadvantage, and providing specific information to the player base so we can better act on these mechanics.

[@yungmalaria]

It's an overarching problem with For Honor tbh, even mordhau has values for attacks and stuff listed in game

[@rigulur]

I've been getting every single hero to Rep 7 because fashion, but as I learned each hero I've become much much better at the game than I could ever be just playing my main. Also realized how little the average player knows, because it's frustrating to move beyond your favorites into uncharted territory.

[@SkullyFH]

Pk should have plus frames on dagger cancel!! This hurt her Offence tremendously Shaman has it so idk why they changed it

[@intregalacticmrplayer9315]

No, please no.

[@SkullyFH]

@@intregalacticmrplayer9315 gib kidneys

[@belugawhale8128]

I would say only if it was preformed from a neutral heavy. If she had it on her chain heavy it'd be the same problem ad Warmonger, where she's always on the offensive

[@vicio19995]

and his top heavy should be unblockable if and only if, you are bleeding, this will make her usefull preasurin in ganks

[@SoI_Badguy]

It's a really simple solution... make it frame neutral if they aren't bleeding, and frame advantage if they already are. It fits perfectly with her concept of momentum and overwhelming attacks after someone is bleeding.

[@ToastyYokai]

Awesome video again freeze, question, will there one day be a more comprehensive video detailing frame advantages and disadvantages for those weird special cases/moves you mentioned?

[@fkkfreeze]

it is planned yes, but dunno which moves I'll include or how extensive it'll be in general.

[@ToastyYokai]

@@fkkfreeze I can see how it'll be quite the endeavor. Well if you do, good luck with the process and that it goes smoothly. Also, this series is very good. They're very concise and practical, great work

[@FAFRO]

I know warlord is plus after his headbutt stab, just like warmonger. And highlanders double lights if you don’t block it

[@Madara_Ghost_of_the_Uchiha]

Hey @Freeze better send this video to jordaliner. He has no clue what frame advantage is to this day.

[@pasikarvonen6094]

That was a great explanation, thanks. Luckily, i knew the mechanic already, just not the name of it

[@FullAdDariusBR]

IMO, if demon's embrace has no armor and restore both stamina bars (or none of them), it could be no longer a free heavy attack or guard break punishable.

[@BamBoozlerC0L3]

Loving this series, freeze. Do you think you could make a video on zoning attacks and how best to deal with them? Because as an experienced player I still sometimes have trouble with them.

[@AsianSadge]

What do you mean by zoning attacks? Actual zones or attacks with wide hit boxes?

[@BamBoozlerC0L3]

@@AsianSadge attacks with wide hitboxes, ie. JJ heavies, shugoki heavies

[@AsianSadge]

@@BamBoozlerC0L3 well those you just have to dodge later and have them hit during your s, assuming they aren’t locked onto you

[@Valor06]

So can you make a video laying out exactly what the frame advantages and disadvantages are for each individual hero? Several times since the CCU I've been spammed to death by certain heroes where even though I attacked when they should've been frame disadvantaged, they still interrupted me with another attack even though they finished their chain with a light attack... it's very frustrating.

[@fkkfreeze]

just out of curiosity. how long do you think that would take me?

[@Ixb3rs3rkxI]

Just crack that hero open in the training arena and figure it out

[@Forkontheleft]

@@fkkfreeze probably less time than to fix rally call

[@massivegat5087]

Go look on the infohub or something. Finding all the values for every single hero would be an enormous time sink. Better to just learn the frame advantage/disadvantage for heroes you commonly struggle against as well as the heroes you play often.

[@lukatosic09]

That would probably take him at least 3 months with an additional editor to help and at least 5 people to test with

[@danielzuve13]

Frame disadvantage? Shugoki HP lights goes BOINK

[@AsianSadge]

@@WhirlwindHeatAndFlash Shugoki is no longer advantaged but he still trades

[@jevontewashington7409]

The only problem I have with frame advantage is that it seems like everyones main combo that they spam is just light, light, heavy or heavy feint and they kinda aren’t doing any other attack combos. It’s bad because lights are super hard to react to and people are getting better at switching up their light spamming combos and then after the two lights it’s like do I risk parrying the heavy or just block and give this person frame advantage so they can repeat the combo.

[@hallstuart6604]

These videos are great!

[@ogmudbone9093]

Pk feels terrible on dagger cancel because pre ccu dagger cancel had 400ms recovery on hit, and now it has 700ms recovery all the time :)

[@iagam3r]

We all know if dedicated tekken/street fighter players came to this game who are used to working with 10's of frames for advantage or disadvantage they would destroy the casual for honor players. All you have to do is mention that it keeps track of frame advantage and they'd be roped in and there'd be a entirely new community.

[@end-er_1023]

Very nice

[@Moose0615]

I really hope this video will stop people from mindlessly lighting after I block it lol

[@edwardlane5637]

How can people think the frame advantage changes are bad, I always thought this was one of the best changes... anyone got the opposite opinion?

[@shawnwolf5961]

It's the inconsistancly that Freeze pointed out towards the end that people have the problem with. Without consistant rules, you have to have a goddamned masters degree to understand since there's like 500 different moves to memorize on TOP of the base rules. One or two exceptions, whatever. But there's less consistency throughout this Frame Advantage than there should be.

[@edwardlane5637]

@@shawnwolf5961 you are talking about the changes 3 years ago, cause I stopped playing this game a while ago so there may have been even more frame changes than that.

[@Tsaooyoh]

*video on frame advantage* *Warmonger thumbnail* Appropriate

[@pvtrichardsonbr]

I cant stand getting stuck in a damn combo and not being able to dodge or react

[@boombadaboom7819]

Hey, could you make a video like this about reading with some tips?

[@fkkfreeze]

Coming in a few hours ;)

[@syrusmarks1]

Correct. The complaints about frame advantage now seems like bull.

[@diegoolivares143]

So we saw that these frame advantages are true when hits connect. What if they are blocked? Do the frame advantages and disadvantages stay the same?

[@1blueeye]

Blocked attacks leave you negative. You lose your turn, effectively. The 'on block' rules are much more simple

[@swnamii]

Chicken Burger and Chips

[@ethandelossantos5929]

Is shaman bleed stab adv, neutral, or dis for her?

[@xgszblazefade1411]

Can you make a video showing deflect tech or the deflect unintended bullshit.

[@mahmoudmerhi5875]

Is it normal for a bp to light hit me while am a warden and hitting with a unlockable I alrd hit him with light then heavy unlockable but he hits me with light before my heavy can reach

[@Fuzzymandias_]

how do i learn new things every video of yours????

[@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial]

can you make some updated max punish videos

[@fkkfreeze]

which character you need?

[@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial]

all of them would be preferable, but if you don't wanna do that, that's fine too.

[@tiocroc4814]

raider has no frame advantage after his chain zone

[@pearshaped9116]

Why do I hear ppl saying shug is better now coz of frame advantage? Does he have it after light or something? Or are ppl just dumb in this case...

[@natethegreat632]

he has frame advantage after demons embrace

[@pearshaped9116]

@@natethegreat632 ah ok

[@JustAreru]

Shugoki deserves to be nerfed, fight me

[@belugawhale8128]

Shugoki is not in a good state rn, why does he need the hammer?

[@JustAreru]

@@belugawhale8128 Bruh literally everyone knows he's an easy win button. This ain't the first three seasons where he was bad. Shugo is among the heroes with the higher win rate. He is in a broken state where even pc players agree how cancerous he is to fight against in a 1v1 scenario, let alone 4 Shugokis in 4v4

[@belugawhale8128]

@@JustAreru everyone who's rep 30 overall you mean. Top tier players all agree that he's only playable If you Have a team to set him up properly, and even then he's not that good. In any 1v1 scenario he's just terrible, considering he has shitty range, no chase, and horrible recoveries. He only has a high win rate because he's played in low tier matchmaking where no one knows how to counter him. Have you considered that you might just be bad at the game?

[@JustAreru]

@@belugawhale8128 My man i have more than a hundred hours in the game, two ranks away of Grandmaster title, overall rep of a a hundred and something. I can assure you that bad i am not, but i don't know if you play the same game as me, but enhanced lights with hyperarmor and frame advantage, high damage heavies that have variable timing and have aswell hyperarmor, said heavies can turn into a Hug that appart from recovering health and stamina it gives you frame advantage on a succesful hug. Freeze himself told us a strategy that deadass relies on constantly backing away or rolling to escape the hug. And aswell his lights are quite quick for a heavy character and can be easy to land. Plus a huge healthpool that will further extend the fight. So i don't know who you might main, but atleast from my experience Shugoki is the only character that in my pov and many deserves a nerf.

[@JustAreru]

@@belugawhale8128 Might i add that Shugoki and Berserkers are the only characters that i can barely win against. Berserker kind of makes sense since most Zerk players are quite skilled at using him, but Shugokis are just a cancer character to duel against.

[@ancario7916]

Shugoki approves

[@ttacoguyy]

its not really frame advantage if time isnt measured in frames now right? maybe just advantage

[@fkkfreeze]

arguing semantics is a waste of time

[@justahattrynachill8748]

I suppose you could call it recovery-advantage but that's a whole extra syllable that I cant be bothered to pronounce.

[@Mattman_90]

Frame advantage is named so after other fighting games, but is most certainly still frame data even if measured in milliseconds as opposed to frames. It's just easier to measure For Honor's timings this way, 500ms is commonly known as half a second and is easy to communicate to a large audience but people unfamiliar with frame data might not understand that same 500ms being stated as 30 frames.

[@ttacoguyy]

@@Mattman_90 i dont think the game logic is tied to frames like in fighting games and console runs at 30fps so using frames wouldnt be right so it doesnt really make since to call it frame data or frame advantage. Sure its pretty much the same idea, but the game doesnt measure time in frames. I did see recently for honors twitter call it frame data, so i guess thats it

[@Mattman_90]

@@ttacoguyy Regardless of the frame rate and platform. Attacks and animations all happen at the same speed. Milliseconds, frames and fractions can all be interchanged depending on your preferences. 100ms is 6 frames and one tenth of a second. And animations are always built in frames which is why the term frame data or frame advantage gets used. It fits perfectly fine as it all comes down to numbers at the end of the day.

[@finnsen1771]

Ppl when Warmonger uses her Frameadvantage: O: ppl when Warlord or Highlander use their Frameadvantage: |:

[@ogmudbone9093]

they should make all finisher lights frame advantaged so you're actually encouraged to press buttons, who cares about the reddit garbage cans who cant block lights.

[@ogmudbone9093]

oh and you should also be + after having your gb counter gbed