For Honor - Upcoming TESTING GROUNDS - Speeding up Bashes

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0:00 - Intro
1:54 - Bash Examples
6:25 - Impact on Ganking

[@fkkfreeze]

Lots of extra talking was done after making this video. We will make a podcast type of video next weekend where we cover alternatives to this, that will have similar effects. Faster neutral bashes will make inchain offense worse and not enhance the overall combat. Things like that... Look forward to that.

[@danielmitchell5520]

Ngl, being able to play shino and actually open someone up with a bash instead of back step lighting into UB or backflip followed by kickflip/undodgeable sickle rain sounds amazing 😂. I really hope these changes go through, but at the same time I hope they nerf ganks at some point as well, however that needs to be done. Cause I know still getting 100-0d by certain char combinations is not ok at all, and needs to go lol

[@alahawwa7487]

Each season the game is wrecked more and more , either with a broken hero or broken mechanics

[@disparu6007]

@@danielmitchell5520 shinobi already had a good opener mixup. His kick vs his dodge forward heavy. It was actually not reactable when it comes to telling the difference between them.

[@drip_gami458]

Looking forward to the podcast. I listened to the last one regarding DA's and really enjoyed hearing the reasonings and opinions.

[@Commanderflynn]

Didn't the Devs say the reason why there's such variation on bash speeds, was to test them all in one go? Something about wanting to really dial in what speed people like/dont like etc etc. If people prefer a slower bash for those that have feintable attracks or a faster one etc etc. If this change goes through, I wager that everyone will be standardised depending on feedback

[@WarlordofWarren]

Yes! Exactly! I feel like everyone is missing the point of the variable timing. It's not for giving weaker characters a better bash and vice versa (jj wouldn't get such a fast speed) but determining which speed is the best.

[@spegwettie9053]

I think they said they wanted specific feedback per character, which implies that different heros would get different timings.

[@bhellzeboss7541]

I belive they said in the stream " we give different number to different hero to get more data, since some comp player say 466 is ok, other say 400. " So i dont belive this is targeted. They simply pick a few bash like this and simply added one of the 3 value. The one with most positive feedback is probabily going to be the one they chose

[@timbletop9506]

im all for this change, its one of the only ways to open up reaction gods.

[@b1gs3xy17]

"Im all for bridging the skill gap between me and people who are naturally better" Cant wait for the average fatass to be allowed to participate in the Olympics

[@SigurdThePink]

Some people will still react

[@KazumiyaEnthusiast]

​@@SigurdThePink yeah but the number of them will go even lower, which is a good thing

[@SigurdThePink]

@@KazumiyaEnthusiast ага.

[@spegwettie9053]

​@@SigurdThePink to a 400ms bash. IDK if that is even possible considering input delay.

[@camelusdromedarius3789]

Having old man reactions and relying heavily on reads, I'm all for dethroning the reaction gods. Am also all for nerfing effective ganks, specifically things that reset hitstun, as you mentioned. Welcome changes imo, just wanting to see the devs' rationale for the various speeds.

[@yourfriendlyemperor]

I'm pretty sure they said they are all randomly assigned speeds to test which speeds work best for which category of bash.

[@CEOdosPutos]

Thats absolutely beautifull, fuck staring competitions and also, the game become more balanced between different platforms, i might even get seriously back now

[@TheAshhole123]

Someone in Ubisoft must love JJ cuz he’s already a powerful character and now he’s getting his bash faster than the weaker characters

[@k338914]

As far as I've understood from WD stream, the reason behind setting specific bash timings to specific heroes is quite much arbitrary, the main goal being just to have at least two different heroes with different startup animations for each bash speed, in order to test the reactability thresholds.

[@wolvenedvard3049]

Do you feel like the light dodge property and gb vulnerability of side dodge attacks should be reverted back on how it was before?

[@RavenCarver]

I'm all for this change. I am at a matchmaking level where I am put up against these reaction gods (not super often, but often enough) and I myself am too old (only 35..... beware, it will happen to you) and fat to have a hope of having the same reaction speed anymore.

[@Luna.Tenebra]

What does beeing overweight having to do with reactions 😅

[@RavenCarver]

@@Luna.Tenebra Oh it's legit. If you're overweight, lose some weight and build some muscle, your reaction time improves by like 20 milliseconds or something.

[@Luna.Tenebra]

@@RavenCarver Well thats interesting

[@danzinhofilho]

When i see a hero changing a bash, with this update cant i just foward bash him to interrupt?

[@sevensatori1249]

Regarding bashes, I think speeding them up to being read-only is fine. It encourages reading, and this makes the playing field even. Naturally, the player base is going to dislike change, but I think it’s a change which will be for the betterment of the game, as people can now climb and fall respectively along the skill levels.

[@Kitsune_Chara_CG]

Yh as someone who smtimes play on ps4 this is actully....Welcome bc man it feels like my 1k hours is smtimes invalidated bc someone elses damn hardware is better but now when on ps4 (or shite pc not every pc is better then smtimes even a ps4) On ps5 i probably wont feel any change as im dogshit regardless or smtimes just a prediction god (the ladeer bienng rarer ofc)

[@sevensatori1249]

@@Kitsune_Chara_CG I heavily relate. I’m a ps4 player and I can’t beat people who simply have superior reactions. I’ve picked up Highlander so it’s not so bad by comparison to heroes like Centurion’s kick, since I can feint to any other unblockable in offensive stance, but it’s still a problem regardless. Being on different hardware should make a difference, but not a significant one.

[@vextay7199]

True, I've been in a lot of games that just stomp me as a solo player, im on a xbox slim, so this change does almost nothing to me. I'm all for evening that playing field, If I confront a new gen console or pc, it feels terrible to play against.

[@ShamanThroatWarblers]

Doesn't matter to vast majority as most (myself included) read all dodge forward bashes anyway, so these being on the same playing field for everyone sounds just like a positive to me I'm up for trying it. And gladiators dodge bashes not confirming damage always confused me to be honest, it's time for him to get a confirm light off sucker punch if you ask me

[@commodorekhan8602]

I was confused from the June roadmap and the stream saying 2 different things. Is the TG at the season launch on thursday (6/15)? Or is it the week after?

[@spegwettie9053]

I'm just saying I was one of those people who were begging for sped up bashes. I'm very happy, since I'm someone who can't react to 500ms bashes. For me this will just help when I fight reaction monsters.

[@vapor_snake920]

Same. This will help make it feel more like a fighting game now where things that are intended to be reactable will finally be that way for nearly 100% of the playerbase now. Of course, ganks do need to be addressed to accommodate with these changes, that much I agree.

[@jonmann4980]

Fr if I’m getting hit I’m glad everyone else is getting hit too 😂

[@stormychu5677]

We'll see how it ends up going, I am happy that if I'm playing a character with a bash that I will be more likely to land it against a reaction animal and be more on a level playing field. Hopefully they can adjust ganks in another way that doesn't change these bashes.

[@azm41]

Gotta say I'm in with this change, since non-feintable bashes needed some kind of a buff/change.

[@spegwettie9053]

Thanks for calling out those who just want to play "react" for honor but have their opponents play "read" for honor. I want all "mixups" to be mixup on all levels, not just low to mid level play.

[@stigandrthewarlord1871]

Why was warlord left out of these changes?

[@user-jl5lo9dr7h]

Didnt they say that the bash timings are just to figure out at what speed a bash becomes unreactable? And that they can increase or reduce the speed individually if one hero needs it for reasons (like maybe animation)? So i thought the timings here were all just randomly decided to just find the threshold. But yeah honestly i think this will just make people go back to neutral because these bashes are just gonna be stronger... AND it will be the only reliable way of damaging reaction gods too because theyre just gonna parry the next attack anyway because of parry flash... I think they need to completely remove parry flash to even out the playing field even more.... i mean why make only bashes unreactable at the top?

[@aersla1731]

More unreactable moves, I am all for it.

[@RomanMina]

So in order to remove ganks from for honor we need to make nuxia's zone trap insta kill

[@ChocoToxic]

120 fps on xbox series x?

[@dernamenlosefan]

For a sec while reading the title I was afraid that this'll be a neutral bash thing that forces people into dodge in neutral. But honestly those changes seem nice, won't change much from me since I am not a reaction monster but rather make a read the moment I see forward dodge so I couldn't care less in most situations, could come in handy against those people that react to every one of their 120 frames per second.

[@claydee7092]

Unless im playing with friends, I leave when the enemies are in a party together and know how to gank properly. Its just not fun to play at that point.

[@octavius3400]

Ubisoft once again proving they have no clue what they are doing.

[@Palyftw]

I know this is not the place, but for some reason for honor reddit disappear for me, anyone here having the same problem?

[@monkeman9529]

They on strike pretty much, same thing happened to alot of other sub reddits

[@orochi4768]

What about Tiandi & Orochi?

[@disparu6007]

Thank God there doing something about these genetic freaks. All the people spouting all you need is to train and have a healthy lifestyle but that's not nearly enough. It's a small part of it, the rest is just being born the right way. Take it from me, 170lbs-6'2 with a great athletic build with well defined chest and arm muscles. Eats well(a lot to), sleeps well, drinks well, and starting for honor I had a fucking 400MS reaction time IF that's not unlucky wtf is lol My reactions are 310 now as for honor motivated me to fill in the entire small part of my reactions. It has stayed 310 for over a year now so this is what I got.

[@acid1787]

This is a good change. As a Cent main who got no opener I run into lot of people who use better heroes and react to everything I throw with the best offences they have is kinda getting really old. I want my bashes to equally land when I do and not to mention these top players love using heroes who can light you out of your offences and getaway with it. So the bash speed up will stop people from inturrepting your offences and forces them to react with a dodge instead.

[@mateoriveracastro1383]

What if they just make the bashes undodgeable then? I mean,if someone dodges forward,and you see them,you can make a read and dodge or not,but if you see orange,no matter how slow the bash is(as long as it confirms a light maximum) you are going to get hit. At the same time,the atacker can't wait for the defender to dodge on read because the window to input a bash from dodge already passed.

[@Luna.Tenebra]

Would suck in 4v4

[@mateoriveracastro1383]

@@Luna.Tenebra How? Isn't the idea behind that you shouldn't be able to dodge on orange? Or tha the devs want that?

[@Luna.Tenebra]

@@mateoriveracastro1383 yeah if you 1v1 someone yes but being bashed constantly because you try to dodge attack someone else is anoying

[@bionizard5480]

On one hand this makes doge attacks kinda useless. But on the other hand it forces Mr “I can parry light attacks out of neutral” mofos to fight on our level.

[@sirvilhelm3569]

This helps Conq so I’m all for it Please Ubisoft give the man more options

[@Shoc921]

I think this will be a good change we just have to see how this plays out. I would like them to give revenge a buff though or test some things out, cause it just doesn't feel like it helps that much anymore cause most people can or will avoid it or they can even gank around it.

[@ahhhsothisishowyouchangean162]

They couldn’t avoid if a character has a roll catcher. But certain heroes don’t. I personally don’t think revenge needs a buff, just the ganks need a nerf. Revenge isn’t supposed to be a huge help since if your are fighting two people or more, you should be at an disadvantage. Main purpose of the revenge right now I think is to buy enough time, (and not evaporate within seconds), for teammates to arrive and possibly fight back. One people shouldn’t over power two THAT easily with revenge. But I do agree sometimes when the enemy just stare and babysits it is really annoying. But again there’s a lot more adjustments to revenge in teamfights and all that..

[@ezhno7137]

Just give it a knockdown property on bash and / or gb invulnerability.

[@victornguyen1175]

Would there be some way to check for gank resets that just add an extra chunk of revenge, I wonder? The spaghetti code might be too much. I don't think gank resets should be taken out of the game, I just think that you should only be able to cycle them once while also giving a ton of revenge. You'd still be able to kill someone with it, just wouldn't be able to 100-0 with them.

[@NDO6]

I think hitstun reset in general is a big problem and should be removed since it negates 3rd hit rule and makes ganking too easy wich is frustrating at the receiving end

[@albryx]

0:55 literally all that needs to be said. push this bash change.

[@FrappyLee]

I can't help but feel upset that the conq changes are pretty much a massive nerf with an ever so slight speed increase.

[@patrickharris5917]

Yeah cry about it it doesn’t matter. Conqueror is a cheese character. Anyway, maybe you should just learn how to play the game. The reason why they make so many bad changes in this game is because no matter what they do there’s always somebody complaining about it because they’re just not good at the game.

[@FullAdDariusBR]

Not the topic, but I'm so pissed off about this TG Lawbringer changing basically nothing compared to the last one and EVEN LESS compared to live Lawbringer, actually this rework makes him worse.

[@lockdown2108]

Why tf did conq get nerfed again 💀

[@visiblygnomed177]

I really hope they speed up Nobu's bash with this change, I still have no idea why hers is like 566 when almost every other bash is faster

[@Giuseppemix]

Devs sayed performance mode would be available in the next title update (this one) but there is not real 120 fps. Tv says so but the effective are about 70 (PS5)

[@fkkfreeze]

You sure they said that?

[@Giuseppemix]

@@fkkfreeze Sorry, it was my misunderstanding. I've found the post I was referring to and they actually sayd that in this TU they would have fix the variable framerate to prepare "the way to" performance mode in a later date.

[@cervusgaming4320]

I don’t like the way, they’re moving everything to read based. That removes the skill difference “reaction”

[@darklight1373]

I'm not a top player ofc, but have a few words: First, these changes are hilarious. Some time before they added 400ms openers, only to delete them afterwards. And now it might happen to bashes as well. Game has significantly more critical balance issues on the loose (like useless heroes still present, no tool to gank with pk at all for example). Some 500ms bashes I do dodge on reaction and not on read, while some others have a scarce animation and they're almost 400ms already. And now, as they indeed are 400ms ( Gryphon's chain kick mixed with 80ms ping already feels like 300ms), it's almost as if the game really doesn't want you to block or avoid any incoming attacks by this point. Revenge is pretty much useless now. You get hit with 1 trick attack, and then eat 3 unblock heavies as well. What about revenge meter? Oh you only get a quarter. And they DO see it. So players with atleast 1 braincell will never give you revenge, or atleast not more than one for sure. And only high DPS heroes (and only if you play them really really well), can kill a full hp hero before revenge expires. Then you simply die, as a charged bash mixed with undodgeable heavy most of the time guarantees two or even three heavies. And unlike before the change, you get almost zero revenge from that, as well as you do not gain any in a 1v1, so the other person just leaves you to duel on zero hp vs full hp hero. Revenge is only usable against low tier players really. And now they really nerf reaction defense even more. It's not a fighting game if the only thing you do is try to predict what kind of bash the opponent will or will not throw this time, and it's unfun to play (unlike how fh was back in marching fire days, where defence was OP, and if you block lights and parry heavies you are basically a god). My opinion is that they should make the game - a fricking game, and not a fortuneteller simulator. Most from neutral moves must be reactable, while chain ones mustn't be. They should really stop making the fighting game to a slasher one. It's not fun popping revenge on pk or nuxia to be hit in the back by high damage heavies mixed with unreactable bashes that can stun you mid-chain (happens quite a lot for some reason). All and all, they just nerf defence for years already, while godly buffing the offense. And knowing ubi, they really don't know how to make good competitive games (my big circle of friends left R6S because they made recoil on most guns practically uncontrollable if you are not an aim god who lives in the basement), so they will leave weak heroes hanging. And thats dissappointing...At best.

[@pxrposewithnopurpose5801]

they will still be able to do that

[@rcbbery]

What I’m very curious is how will this effect the animations? Will they look super janky and sped up, that’s my main worry. Someone standing and then floating with a kick in ur face lol. Feel like we’re getting closer and closer to that point with each speed increase to the game

[@bdrsescanor6804]

I don't expect my comment to recieve anything but criticism but I'm at my wits end with trying to reach out in some way to the community or developers and your name holds notoriety in the community.

[@louaimamdouh7639]

I honestly believe all bashes should be 200- 300 ms and give bashes to heroes who don't like berserker imagine if he has a punch for a bash that'd be awesome, and have chargeable bashes 450 ms that way it makes bashes more fun and unpredictable but I believe bashes should be stamina punished like orochi who can bash spam you into the sun before getting out of stam it also makes sense that a bash should be stamina costly

[@theitalianmexican1035]

I don’t mind them speeding up bashes, but I hope they alter the animations so that way they play out smoothly. I can imagine how annoying it would be to be fighting an Orochi or Shaolin, and see them on the ground, and then they bash and all you see is them suddenly in the air because the animation skipped a few frames and doesn’t fit the increased speed.

[@alphadaslaya]

Just waiting for Highlander to get a feintable bash

[@thrillainthemanilla1409]

Jorm already had an unreactable, 30 damage chain feintable bash. Giving Jorm an unreactable forward bash that chains means he can literally unreactable right after his unreactable for massive damage. That is absolutely ridiculous

[@abiker98]

I really like the new changes to bashes. And thats coming from someone who recently started consistently reacting to many of the game's reactable bashes. BUT. If they implement these (and probably more) all heroes who have stam drain/pause on bashes need to have it stripped. Argument can be made for bashes that dont give dmg like glad's bashes to keep it, but a blanket change would be better imo. He has haymaker afterall in 4sies

[@ezhno7137]

Oh wow, 5 damage after tier 2 is unlocked. god have mercy...

[@abiker98]

@@ezhno7137 i would prefer blanket change yes

[@sandguyman]

Imo chargeable is more enjoyable because increasing speed alone makes the game look messy as hell, but this actually looks promising

[@tristenatorplaysgames6833]

Damn freeze taking shots at ranked players whining proud of you staying a truth in the community

[@benniebees]

I dont understand what they mean with feintable, not feintable, and no attack. None of these bashes can be feinted??? And LB gets a confirmed side light after hitting a bash.. so what do you mean "no attack"? It's all over the place. EDIT: ok i get it. The descriptions apply to whether forward dodges have feintable, not feintable, or no other moves in them. I suppose it matters balance wise. Someone that tries to react to bashes *by animation* might get baited when you do another forward dodge move instead.

[@fkkfreeze]

the other moves than can come from a forward dodge. the other moves you use to mix up your opponent

[@noahboes5585]

I like these changes but I don’t like them paired with the old dodge attack party change. I feel like dodge attacks will be needed more than ever for this. Since bashes were standardized to fight turtles, dodge attacks were meant to fight bashes, and etc.

[@ahhhsothisishowyouchangean162]

Well I mean there pretty much isn’t a difference unless you are a reaction god who can react to all the foward dodge bashes..

[@normieee_]

please bro this weekend

[@littlevenom7194]

I really hope they buff revenge its just oh now its time to run away

[@bdrsescanor6804]

Dear freeze, as a person who has followed the game, spent much of my income supporting this game backing this game as a console player. Can you tell me why that everytime I que into a dom or breach or even duels as any time of the day. That I am forced to play only a small roster of the games characters against people on PC. I'm not in a low mmr by any means and play at the higher levels of play. But it just doesn't matter what I do, heroes I play, reads I have to make even try to play so slow that matches go to the last 30 seconds to try and stand a chance. I was playing warlord into an overall rep 42 highlander who skill rating showed was double arrow lower than mine. I was punished in ways I didn't think possible in the game. No matter what attacks blocked or parried, matches like that leave me withought any shred of hope that I will get to play. Can you please make a video or try to reach out to someone and let them know that as much as i love seeing our game grow and it's fan base. Console will never amount to the undisputable advantages that PC has. This game will not improve and in my opinion the only way things will get better is only allowing cross play at the console level. I can't even bring myself to pick up the game somedays because I know that I'll only fight people like that highlander some of my close friends and ex comp players feels the same.

[@tabula_rosa]

people arent mad about the news bc they can react to orange now, they're mad about it bc they they think they should be able to react to orange (esp feintable bashes, which is increasingly becoming most of them) and this change is moving farther & farther away from that

[@frogaroach]

You basically hit the main points I think, good change for every skill level, but ganking needs looked at. Only thing i'd add is that rotations and point pushing is still in a strange state w/o defender renown being compensated for since its removal

[@DiscoPapiii]

I am not too concerned with the few 100 to 0 ganks in the game. You're not supposed to be fighting a 1vs2 anyways... I just wish they would make it while in revenge you cant be bashed, guardbroken or any other type of stun. I believe taking away ganks takes away from skilled players. It would reduce it to what randoms do which is swinging like a bunch of idiots randomly.

[@vextay7199]

@DiscoPapiii ganks are fun. The problem I have with them is hit stun. One attack goes through, or you misread against players who know what they are doing, and you'll die without a good teammate next to you. I don't mind being killed out numbered, but when I'm out numbered by 2 or more and I can't even see my guard go up, it's frustrating.

[@DiscoPapiii]

@@vextay7199 well you're supposed to be at a disadvantage when outnumbered. Also, you can't just punish teams that actually practice together bc they learned how to actually play

[@DiscoPapiii]

@@vextay7199 Balancing the game around you having bad teammates that don't peel* is just silly. You shouldn't close the skill gap because another team plays better

[@vextay7199]

@DiscoPapiii like I said I don't care being killed out numbered, it's when I can't even put my guard up because hitstun isn't allowing me.

[@BoltYT_]

Lets just make em 1ms instead of 100ms and boom lmao

[@donamameng]

literally started his video with “ur bad anyway so why complain”

[@Luna.Tenebra]

I mean its kinda true? A lot of people cant really react anyway but still want to complain

[@AVeryGoodListener]

Finally, thank god! I've been wanting this change to happen for ages. It's not even because there's that many players who can react to it (there aren't), just that now other players can't claim that bashes need to be as strong because a very few amount of people can react to them.

[@omasarschhaarrasierer3531]

Bro...glads bash (in 1v1) gives you nothing anyway xp

[@verrat3219]

gladiator forward dodge bash is still useless... whats the point of making it faster when it guarantees u nothing.

[@Luna.Tenebra]

Bash spamming someone in 4v4s with his second feat

[@ImWhyMortalsCry]

I couldn't react to them before I don't mind still not being able to react lol

[@swampraptor7132]

I’m all for speeding up the game entirely. The dodge attack changed made me leave cause I already found normal lights easy to parry. Course the week I come back LBs TG rework is “shown” and it’s just hard to watch.

[@dontcare537]

make every bash 400ms at this point

[@joltix3494]

If they speed up bashes certain character who don’t hv bashes like nuxia are gunna be more obselete

[@lmao9692]

I’ll be honest. Having faster bashes with characters like Jorm just make them feel more smooth. I’m for this change.

[@actaragus956]

and more toxic. Honestly feint/bashes/lights are the current meta. Excpet for warden who need a speedup bash to be at the level

[@thrillainthemanilla1409]

Jorm already had an unreactable, 30 damage chain feintable bash. Giving Jorm an unreactable forward bash that chains means he can literally unreactable right after his unreactable for massive damage. That is absolutely ridiculous

[@lmao9692]

@@thrillainthemanilla1409 Eh- Jorm’s bash now being intractable isn’t a problem in my opinion. More offensive mixups being added to the game? I’d Love that.

[@thrillainthemanilla1409]

@@lmao9692 the problem isn’t the mix ups. It’s the damage. When you add Jorm renown power it that adds armor every time he lands a slam, he literally will break the game. You’re gonna think more mixups means more fun but you go against a Jorm yourself you’ll realize that now the game isn’t tactical at all. It’s one bash leads leads to a chain knockdown into 30 damage and then guess what? His slam gives him slight plus frames meaning he’ll just forward bash again or empty forward dodge into a gb back into the same mixup on an undending chain. If that sounds “fun” to you then please don’t ever become a game dev

[@lmao9692]

@@thrillainthemanilla1409 1. If Hammer slam is the best option, then people will use it more and Jorm will become more predictable. 2. If you hate my balancing decisions, I’d make an excellent For Honor dev.

[@volulra2008]

My poor Conq is hurting bad

[@elchurcho2704]

If It means i can bash-bash the fuck out of my oponent... Im fine👍🏻👍🏻

[@callanlandis4300]

8:44 freeze says something in arabic

[@dogzabob]

i'm so glad im on my state mandate year break from this game. Every change makes in more infuriating

[@pab7668]

As someone who can react to several front dodge bashes in console, I'm all in for this change

[@prone1277]

WHY ??!

[@pab7668]

@@prone1277 well it'll make a ton of characters better than they were before

[@prone1277]

@@pab7668 but it's more an unhealthy way to buff a weak character. look gryphon or raider, they went from too strong to too bad because they got change on damage and feat

[@pab7668]

@@prone1277 didn't understand a thing

[@Wird97]

Idk how i feel about tiandi being singled out and left out of the changes, his palm strike is safe, but it's still a 500 ms bash and can be reacted to by some players

[@PinkPrior]

Just it out

[@toesmchands]

Removing everyone’s ability to react is what’s killing for honor

[@ruvensanguir47]

The game used to be fully reactable. Everyone hated it because nobody would ever attack because everything was just going to be punished anyway. Cookie Clicker is more exciting than reaction-based For Honor

[@Luna.Tenebra]

Sounds like someone who never played back then

[@ruvensanguir47]

@@Luna.Tenebra In fact I did. Sounds like someone who wasn't in a high enough skill bracket, to keep the spirit of your reply.

[@Luna.Tenebra]

@@ruvensanguir47 you See that I didnt Tag you with my answer right? My comment Was as a response to the comment above

[@ruvensanguir47]

@@Luna.Tenebra Then I apologize and suggest next time you don't just repeat what someone else already said right above to avoid such misunderstandings

[@jest561]

jorm 400ms feintable bash? Fucking what?

[@fgc_bophades]

But what if you can react 🥹

[@vextay7199]

Being on an xbox slim this is super cool

[@theroguenob]

I definitely don't think that side dash bashes (shugo, glad for example) those should be dodgeable. other than shugo, I believe all are not gb punishable, either from recovery or chainable so lower risk for lesser reward compared to a normal light parry dodge. Otherwise I couldn't care for the other bash changes overall. That being said this potentially makes LB even stronger for most players with a faster opener. While Inturn making non bash heroes lower on the power ranking due to being knocked out of heavies more easily without trading damage Also yeah ganks are too strong, when me and my friend used to play often we had our timing down pretty well and even with mistakes could easily 100-0 almost every 2v1 so fast

[@HeXaGoNDBD]

Freeze, first time i saw previous dodje attack changes i thought thats isnt normal/ But i accepted it. And now i know its was fine desition. But forward dodje bashes? I think it is fine now/ They dosent need any changes. They are already perfect. And if it comes out, i will fear jj with new 400ms kick. Cuz i hate concretely his bash after his rework.

[@-Bile-]

Idk about you, but I feel like some bashes ARE reactable in their current state. Maybe to to their animation, or the audio, but Ive always found it pretty easy to dodge conqueror and bp's bashes. Idk, maybe Im just good at reading those characters or something.

[@Beavecio2]

What you're most likely doing is dodging on them dodging forward. it's completely different than reacting to actual orange, it's "easy" for you because it's 600ms including the dodge timing, but if you dodge like that then the conq/bp can delay the bash input all the way to 500ms and punish you for dodging on movement.

[@spegwettie9053]

As someone who plays Orochi. What the fuck are they gonna do for him? Make his input window 400-500ms? That's what I suggested for the hero before, but I feel like they're just going to nerf his recovery cancel to 233 or 266 and make the bash 466 or 433.

[@ethanfoster1965]

I strongly dislike freeze, I don’t like his opinions, I don’t like his insight. However, I like how he has unique opinions and insight for me to look at. He is a great news source

[@DevilDriver-007]

Conq((

[@BlackBlade58206]

I'm open to this, if bashes become unreactable it mean dodge on orange scripts are now almost useless, I day almost because there will most likely still be something it can dodge.

[@Solussimba]

They sped up the bashes to combat the top players who react to everything. They also for some reason sped up gladiator's bash which guarantees nothing at all. I think Ubisoft forgot that these top players can also react to unblockables and animation, so they wasted their time by speeding up glad's bash. This change would have made sense if Gladiator's bashes guaranteed a toe stab or a light. So to put it simply, if Johnny (an example top player) can consistently react to bahses, what makes ubisoft think Johnny won't be able to react to gladiator's skewer follow up? (ps. johnny can and will react to the skewer follow up)

[@Solussimba]

Don't get me wrong tho, Ubisoft is still on the right track with the changes to the other characters

[@Luna.Tenebra]

But you can bash Spam more as glad with his 2nd feat so thats something

[@daniel.1129]

Come on man after 6 years suffering on console i finally bought a pc so i can react to bashes and im actually good at it and now they want to speed it up😢 at least let me enjoy reacting for 1 more year before u send me back to console days😂

[@alahawwa7487]

They always complained about orochi bash, now its slower than other bashes I dont know is this a reaction based game or just a guessing game ?! I think The game developers don't play the game

[@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial]

read based game

[@alahawwa7487]

​​​@@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial it's a reaction based game, and by doing these upgrades u have a chance of 30% only guess, not even 50% esp against full shields like valk, conq .. etc What a waste to a good game

[@shalashaskaseven4841]

@@alahawwa7487 Can you phrase that better? I don’t think we understand what you are trying to say

[@marioskonst1601]

I feel you my man Try UFC 4 it's sadly the only thing close to old For Honor

[@marioskonst1601]

Another win for the noobs The game is still feeling the fallout of the "Defensive Meta" Good players have been getting punished for years Making the game "read" based was the worst possible decision, instead of adding more things, they took away the core concept of the game, look at the indicators and react. That's why everyone loved Season 1 every time I died In old for honor it was my fault. Nowadays it I don't even care when I die i don't feel outplayed cause it was just a guess. All you have to do is look at Faraam, what's the last time he clutched a game while being down like 400 points, it doesn't happen anymore The only game that give you the same feeling as old For Honor is UFC 4 and that's really sad

[@warprifter8772]

faster bashes are fine. it makes it more sensable to get a guaranteed guardbreak after they whif one. But if they're going to add this, they need to remove the ability to feint bashes. Because this puts you at their mercy. You dodge, and they can 3 way fuck you over even easier than the original 3choice one button press bashes could provide. because there is no hesitation to see if the longer stronger bash will come out to punish you. and dodge attacking a bash still opens them up for a light parry since people will be even more concerned about the orange flash forcing an instant dodge or damage in the luck category.

[@Blurgamer17]

Warden, Warmonger, Conq, Cent, Jorm, Hito, Tiandi, Shaolin, and Afeera: "Am I a joke to you?" The Charge/Feint bash mixups will remain the same in terms of pressure. This TG change only ramps up the read difficulty of _forward_ dodge bashes that currently have a 300-500 into 500ms attack speed by reducing the time it takes for the bashes to come out. Heroes like Conq, Jorm, Tiandi and Shaolin, who have the feintable bash from chains, won't have said move be stronger or weaker because of this change. Charge bashes won't be made much stronger either, as the devs intend to widen the dodge entry window rather than speed up the bashes themselves. (Poor cent still getting double dodged out of his Charge bash)

[@warprifter8772]

"Only upsets the higher .1 percent who are unhappy that they can react to you but you can't react to them." Me watching that one nobushi that pops in on almost every dominion match and obliterates 3/4 people on a team. gets killed once and ragequits immediately after. Happens more than you'd expect actually. Especially when I see them in brawls.

[@Blurgamer17]

@WarpRifter87 anything for the K/D. The ego in most online players falters when their stats get dragged through the mud. They way they preserve it is like taking steroids to increase performance, although this instance is to preserve the illusion of high-performance instead. You can almost always tell whether or not someone's winrate/K.D is natural or not.

[@warprifter8772]

@@Blurgamer17 The number of Nobushis I've been seeing lately gives way to a clear strength against most of the casual cast. I also just discovered that if you whif the kick you can go into a backstep light to gain Iframes and avoid taking damage from a non tracking dodgeattack. blocking lights on her is one thing, but if one gets through you are mostly stunlocked with blocking being your only option to counter. Them high sucess rates against a good chunk of the casual playerbase seem to be pretty dang good if people are using her to farm a K/D

[@validZander]

I hate that all games are trying to get rid of top tier play. Call of duty is actively nerfing players mid game. This is just going to make good players move on to something else.

[@Iceblade269]

What’s this?! Nobushi can actually fight now?!

[@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial]

it doesn't change nobu at all tbh

[@WarlordofWarren]

Sorry bud. No nobu changes. Only fwd dodge bashes

[@johnfer98]

Not jorm getting buffed 🤡

[@craberadicator9446]

This is actually a very welcome change for me, and i hope everyone agrees, hopefully we wont have staring matches in the near future. Should we speed up lights as well though? Because alot of top level players can just reaction moster lights as well, even with heavy mix ups. Perhaps there should be a small period were the indicator shows before the animation (like 0.050ms) Idk i just want to get the idea out there Even if it sucks Or is that a different principle entirely

[@JustForFun-qc4ej]

This game become more and more gambling game rather than reaction game/mind game

[@vapor_snake920]

Reactions were never mind games. Lmao

[@Luna.Tenebra]

Imagine thinking that reactable attacks can result in a mind game

[@theswiftphil8789]

Offense is viable... nice... can we remove shinobis hitstun ignoring double bash, or infinitely resetable 3 second revenge lock sickle rain gank please? I'd like competitive to revolve more around gameplay and not who uses the new brain dead game breaking gank combos the best... they stick around for too long and make professional for honor play... practically non-existent... and what little competitive gameplay there is... is a pain to play, and a bore to watch.

[@rbrbzone]

Shino ganks are fine rn G, he got sickle rain nerfed with the increased revenge feed, meaning it can only be landed once in a gank while tags are applied without feeding a revenge pop. If sickle rain is also the hit that causes a full revenge meter, you should be able to pop revenge if u spam it, but if you don’t you’ll be stuck in the animation of all 3 sickle stabs. Now if sickle rain itself doesn’t feed a full revenge bar, but one of the 3 sickle hits afterward do, then you’ll still be stuck in the full sickle rain animation. All of this is ok since other pin moves also revenge lock until the entire duration of the move is over. These moves are Shugo hug, shaman bite, Medjay grab, etc. Also, to remove double dash would be simply impossible as it would remove his identity as a whole, and ruin how the character works. Sorry that you don’t like how he works, but he realistically falls in line close with how other characters work in terms of ganks and pin moves now. It’s also why he’s unbanned in competitive tournaments now, because he’s no longer an issue that breaks the game. 👍🏻

[@j2daakob]

Im for this change

[@SoI_Badguy]

boo!!! make them 200ms