For prints and photography, how much colour management kit do you need? When's it wasting your money

[@kemerthomson]

More Cooper Common Sense! As a retired engineer with no aspirations to be “professional,” (i.e., sell my time or photos), I’m intrigued as much in getting the best results for my own satisfaction, as in getting the “perfect” composition. That makes me a target for anyone promising automatic “best” results. I continue to learn especially on your channel because it has common sense observations that keep proving to be true, at least for me. In this video, you point out that printer profiles don’t make a picture look the same across papers, but simply as good as they can. In a much earlier video you expressed your guarded skepticism over soft proofing, that there is no substituting “hard proofing” and looking at the results. I bought one online course promising better prints through soft proofing and I should have spent that money on more ink and paper! I’m sure I’m not the only amateur who is tempted to spend more money than it is worth to get “automatic” best results. I realize now that even buying my own expensive spectrometer won’t achieve that. Just think how much paper and ink I could get for that savings!

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks - I'm glad my approach to this makes sense. I do get a bit of flack from 'experts' sometimes, but I point out that they should already know this stuff inside out, so it's not aimed at them ;-)

[@mondujar279]

Another very interesting video and a lot of common sense. For me I am content with monitor calibration and generic printer profiling. I have been able to get my prints looking good and similar to what I edit on screen. That’s all I really need or want. In any case I usually alter the colour and exposure during editing for aesthetic reasons, for most of us I think photography is about artistic creation not scientific accuracy. However I am fascinated by all Keith’s equipment and would love to mess about with it because I am a bloke!

[@KeithCooper]

The most impressive is the i1iO robot arm which moves a spectrophotometer over the surface. Needless to say, if I'd not been involved in the development of a lot of this stuff, the table would be a lot emptier ;-)

This is gold. Thanks so much, Keith. It's so easy to get lost in the rabbit hole of buying more and more gear and... not seeing much improvement. I now have more clarity of what I need.

[@KeithCooper]

Glad it was helpful! - this is the sort of stuff I find can cause confusion by being presented in to too complex ways [or trying to sell stuff!]

​@@KeithCooperbeing an educator myself, I truly appreciate the value of what you do. Got you a coffee or three. Enjoy! Watching the next one now, as I just bought an Epson you reviewed... You helped a lot!

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks - that's appreciated!

[@brycekampjes2229]

As always very informative. I have a i1 Studio and use it with Argyle CMS for both screen and print profiling. For me, and my skills are significantly less than yours, one big benefit to profiling paper is it makes it much easier for my untrained eye to see the real differences. I will in a sample pack profile one page and print a test imate on the other, this gives me the best ability to compare papers. I also find that when working with paper profiles, it makes it much easier to play with multiple papers, I can easily print an image on several papers and compare the results. The profiles deal with the technical details. It is possible to use much less colour management, the first time when scanning film negatives, I profiled the scanner and film but not the screen. In an wet darkroom there would be even less colour management but I've only done black and white darkroom work. For an amateur lacking the time and skills you have to commit to photography, profiling gives me the ability to play with other dimensions, paper choice etc. And it reduces the number of prints I need to do to get a good one. Without profiling, I'd stick to one or two papers and learn them and my screen better.

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks Yes, profiling can be a great help if it's the sort of thing you can get the hang of. It's the reduction of uncertainty which really helps me. I do appreciate it's not for most people though

[@liveinaweorg]

Looking forward to hearing what you think about the Fuji, Keith. I enjoy how you explain the colour management stuff, makes sense which is an achievement based on what else I have seen and read.

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks - put that one down to having given talks about colour management to lots of camera clubs over the years. You get a feel for what bits people have difficulty with. Hopefully the camera will be here in time for a load of commercial work I've got coming up...

[@dunnymonster]

I've done camera sensor specific profiles for only a couple of shoots in the past. Both of these were in an industrial situation where all the staff were wearing bright orange, yellow, green and even pink dayglow high viz vests which needless to say would confuse the WB of any camera system. Worked well and made editing a lot easier. Other than that I'm happy just to sample the 18% grey patch on my color checker passport in LR and just sync the WB to the photos I took in the same lighting for general shooting situations. ☺️

[@KeithCooper]

Yes, I've quite a few 'just in case' shots of the CC card which were not needed once I started processing the images. When it works though, I'm glad I remembered ;-)

[@Bassbarbie]

Ooh exciting new camera to try 😃 I hope we don't all get GAS. Another great video, thanks Keith. I profiled my Canon R because I didn't like the colours it produced, however I later found out it may well have been to do with Lightroom. I had sold the camera by then and moved to Photolab... and have never profiled one since.

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks - the GFX100S is currently charging ;-) I've found camera profiling most useful with unusual lighting. As to GAS - that is less likely at the moment due to finances [which are under the control of Karen]

[@rudydemeulder862]

Thanks for this great informative video Keith. I was currently struggling to create profiles for my new Pro-300 using the Spyder Print and whichever target I tried, the results were worse than the ICC profiles form the paper manufacturer. In the past I've used this device for making profiles for my Pixma-8500 and my Pro-1 and there I had improvements. Maybe the spectrometer is outdated and I was intending to buy a new one, but your exposé reassured me not to spend extra money on it.

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks - glad it was of interest. The SpyderPrint device has not been updated for many years [I have several test models in my 'stuff' collection] and may well show few benefits on some setups these days. I do wish they would bring out a proper spectrophotometer for it, since I feel their software is still very capable and easy to use.

[@Stefan-oc9bo]

Hi Keith, thanks for this interesting video. I have been using a color monkey photo for years (8-9 years) and wonder how long it measures reliably. Reliable for me as an amateur photographer. And beside that, I bought the recommended book Bruce Fraser's 'Real World Color Management' which is very interesting for me. Thanks for that advice!

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks - I've never seen one of the calibrators fail, however I have had them no longer support a new monitor or updated computer system. I never leave them connected when not in use, and ignore any 'auto' settings or light level checking. Hope the book helps!

[@Laira996]

Hi Keith Thanks for your videos! i learned a lot from them. I have a canon pixma pro 200 and i kindly wanna ask you: how can i print a bright and light pink (kind of neon pink). Can you maybe do a video about color settings and how to print this bright colors, which should be possible with the 8 colors :)?

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks - but is the colour actually reachable? The number of inks has relatively little to do with it... One way to test is here. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2fWnKFtmbusiJY The other way is with profiles. See www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon-pro-200-printer-review/ [remember, my videos are always secondary to my proper written reviews ;-) ]

[@bananaskin7527]

Thank you.

[@KeithCooper]

Glad it was of interest

[@freehand5040]

I live in fens and at the moment I spend time at Sandringham and everything is greener than a green thing plays havoc with my old 1D so need a card.

[@KeithCooper]

Yes - I should have mentioned that some older cameras benefit more from this

[@ChrisChris72]

Good morning Keith. Thanks for the always interesting videos. Could you tell me what model is your HP that you have on the table in this video? Thanks in advance

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks, but what HP? If you mean the laptop, it's a 2010 MacBook Pro ;-)

[@ChrisChris72]

@@KeithCooper No sorry. I read a wrong name on the device label. I meant the i1iSis 2 from X-rite. the automatic card reader. I was curious to know more about it. But unfortunately it's too expensive for my wallet. Thanks anyway.

[@KeithCooper]

@@ChrisChris72 Ah - this is one of the original iSis models the iSis XL. It needs a two pass scan to do measurements with UV included, so takes about twice as long - still not cheap even if you can find a used one... :-(

[@philshaw439]

Tomorrow - WooHoo!

[@KeithCooper]

Still waiting for the delivery note, from the couriers...

[@mondomicio]

Thank you Keith, nice video! I have to look up how to correctly use the gray patch for white balancing, any link do comes to your mind?

[@KeithCooper]

Ah, a link I forgot to add to the description www.northlight-images.co.uk/basiccalicube-and-basiccolor-gray-card-review/

[@KCYT2010]

I recently bought the Calibrite PROFILER software to use with my Xrite iOne Display Pro but it won't work, crashes, with the 27" iMac GB-LED. The LED used on iMac 4K 21.5″, 4.5K 24″, 5K 27″ Retina displays in and after late 2015. This of course is not disclosed until after you've bought the software.

[@KeithCooper]

That's not good - the iMac in the video is quite an old one

[@drwatsonismine]

Do you use Calibrite or BenQ palettemaster calibration software on your BenQ monitor?

[@KeithCooper]

Always the BenQ software. The Calibrite software cannot adjust the hardware calibration - I've never found any reason not to use thew BenQ s/w

[@martincarlisle4200]

@@KeithCooper BenQ has just released Palette Master Ultimate, a new version of monitor calibration software. Would it be possible for you to do a review of it sometime?

[@KeithCooper]

@@martincarlisle4200 At the moment, it's not on the BenQ site at all [from the UK] ? I'll ask them what it's for

[@KeithCooper]

Have asked about this - just the US so far and coinciding with new 27" monitors. Once it's announced here. I'll likely have a full set of reviews

[@martincarlisle4200]

@@KeithCooper Thanks Keith, I'll be looking forward to that.

[@gordonderouyan9980]

Will the ColorChecker Studio work with an Epson ET-16550 printer (4 color - black, magenta, cyan, and yellow pigment inks)?

[@KeithCooper]

Yes - more than good enough. The limitations will be more likely the inks and your choices of media - not the profiling kit ;-)

[@gordonderouyan9980]

. @KeithCooper Just curious, when you say the limitation is the inks, should I assume you refer to the number of inks and not the type. This is my first time getting into printing photos with the printer and I don't want to waste the paper ($$$). I would prefer to get it right the first time. What semi-gloss or gloss 13x19 paper would you suggest (in Canada)?

[@gordonderouyan9980]

@KeithCooper FYI.. I find it very hard to find ICC Profiles for my printer from print manufacturers because they tend to have them for the higher quality printers (more inks) such as the Epson P900.

[@KeithCooper]

Yes - one reason I always make the profiles I make available after writing the reviews

[@KeithCooper]

See my ET-2850 review - I believe it's the same inks? www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-et-2850-printer-review/ It discusses paper types

[@kevins8575]

I'm using an inexpensive 43" 4k television as my monitor. Is there any chance of establishing a color profile for it (I have access to a spyderx pro)?

[@KeithCooper]

A lot depends on what the TV is doing to the signal it's sent. With some, there are settings which makes them behave much more like a monitor - i.e. not trying to 'improve' the picture dynamically. But yes a monitor calibrator should be usable if you can get the display to co-operate

[@kevins8575]

Thanks. My tv has a picture setting called "calibrated, " so I'll try that first. Probably will be good enough.

[@philipgilligan_art]

Good luck with the fuji

[@KeithCooper]

Thanks - I''ve quite a few specific bits of testing I'll be putting on the Northlight site, and here...

[@philipgilligan_art]

@@KeithCooper just used my spyder x pro on apple studio monitor, first go it had not warmed up yet second go it seems great but dimmer…….. one thing my plain grey background looks patchy dirty now, had to dig deep in cupboard to find the spyder haha

[@philipgilligan_art]

@@KeithCooper i shoot fuji xh2

[@KeithCooper]

Do check on the latest Datacolor software for this one - some Apple displays need a bit of care in making selections for profiling. I've not used a recent one though.

[@philipgilligan_art]

@@KeithCooper yes I grabbed the latest, pictures look great on screen, and various k video…… will do a print tomorrow on my 300 pro :)