For those who HATE Frank ZAPPA | Moon Unit, Misogyny and Modernism

[@shadhansen739]

Unlike most artists, appreciating Zappa requires effort. But the reward is exponential.

[@JeffReams]

And you will end up spending a lot on his discography in the process.

[@volpeverde6441]

appreciating ZAPPA requires NO effort if your heads in the right place....glad I saw him twice....81 and 88....

[@WetSealTV-eo7bv]

copy and paste a random 300 or less segment of the transcript of this video and tell ChatGpt Demo to turn it into song lyrics. That will give you ideas for songs, the program is fairly good at using rhyme and putting it into song form.

[@martinbroten9467]

There have been a couple of vault releases lately of the band with Ruth Underwood. On one, during the introduction of the band, he introduces Ruth as “the one in the back with the big t*ts…”. In another it’s “and in the back smelling good between the legs…”. Look, I know it was the 70s (I was actually alive and buying FZ records). Regardless, these were still ass-holic ways to introduce a great musician (I don’t recall any other member of the band getting that sort of introduction).

[@mancuniancandidatem]

Love Dumb all Over. I find Zappa's music uplifting. If I am ever feeling sorry for myself, five minutes of Zappa will make me feel like an imbecile for doing so.

[@toneslotohnz4540]

I've always felt Frank's "misogyny" was contextual. He was an equal opportunity offender. He wasn't "anti-woman", he was "anti-stupidity", and he blasted all stupidity when and wherever he saw it, regardless of gender or any other categorization. He just didn't put women on a pedestal and give them a pass because they were "fragile flowers of femininity", no more than he gave hippies, corrupt evangelicals, the entire music business, or anyone else a pass for their various flaws. The fact that he called shenanigans on women just meant it was their turn. Remember, he roasted stupid male behavior much more than he did stupid female behavior, and nobody ever called him out for misandry (I learned a new word today...), though probably only because he didn't live long enough. Does it occasionally make me uncomfortable? Sure. It's absolutely meant to, and that's what provokes critical thinking, if you have the capacity. Thanks for provoking thoughts once again AE!

[@MrMaynardWR]

Agreed

[@sjbang5764]

I think you've written a very good analysis of Mr. Zappa's work.

[@vincentrockel1149]

My favorite zappa quote: and remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over.

[@timothyqrobinson9862]

Yeh man, no diddy

[@christopher9152]

I appreciate that he was brilliant as a composer/writer, that he had a sense of humor pervading much of his work, which is somewhat rare in music, and that he was a talented guitarist. I have enjoyed bits and pieces of his work over the years. However, artists who operate so consistently in a postmodernist ironic mode may amuse me or make me think sometimes, but they rarely make me feel anything deeply, and Frank is no exception.

[@Darrylizer1]

I understand your criticism and it's a valid one, but some of his instrumental work is very moving. Zappa was a multifaceted artist, unlike any other in popular music.

[@notreallydavid]

​@@Darrylizer1I think a great melody or musical idea is inherently moving, whether or not the piece in question is overtly emotional. There's a lot of 'Hell, YES!' to be had in the Frank corpus.

[@13books-n7y]

When I was younger I thought a lot of Zappa's later lyrics were too silly. Now I enjoy it all. I see him as the Robert Crumb of music. He's underrated as a guitar player too.

[@macrusboll]

You know, I understand that the music is from another time, and some of it can be a rough listen because of the lyrics. But it's not just that with Zappa. Listening to him sometimes feels like having someone in your house who thinks he's a genius and talks on and on about how everyone else around him is an idiot. It's in his lyrics, his delivery, and his tone in interviews. Then he's like, "Wanna hear some new music I made that you’ll enjoy if you have an advanced understanding of what great music really is, and where the lyrics also address some of these issues with everyone around me being idiots?" No thanks, Mr. Zappa. I'd rather hear The Little House I Used to Live In, Big Swify, or Orange County Lumber Truck. That's some really cool music. Edit: All that said: I enjoy your channel and your takes on things (not all of them off course, but there's a nice balance). Will follow your music education series indeed!

[@bobjary9382]

Tried and never managed to engage with Zappa. Mates who I respect love him and look at his band members! So I cant slag him off but he just leaves me cold

[@josephcefalu2157]

Zappa always exposed and criticized the hypocrisy of the world. For that I admire him immensely

[@tabordex5185]

"I’m from Brazil and have been following your channel for a long time. I’m amazed at how much I agree with you on almost everything. First of all, I’m a huge fan of Mahavishnu Orchestra and the master John McLaughlin, and of course, Frank Zappa. Congratulations, your channel is sensational and, humour-wise, flawless."

[@giork2828]

Amazing testimonial! Who said that?

[@Darrylizer1]

There is quite simply no other artist in rock or popular music or music in general like Frank Zappa. Love him, hate him, he was unique and I for one greatly miss him.

[@ruthramsden8411]

OK. I've been moved to comment. And I'm a W.O.M.A.N who loves prog and metal and all the rest of the stuff that some gentlemen seem to think requires an XY chromosome. Be honest, though, Zappa is a difficult artist to 'like'. Some of it is puerile, performative horseshit and some of it is genius. And there you have the Zappmeister in a nutshell. Is he taking the piss, or is he a magician that only *seems* like he's taking the piss? I'll be honest, I have to be in precisely the right state of mind to listen to Zappa these days and I'm now too old and too cranky to put up with a lot of it. Hot Rats will tide me over though, so he gets a pass for being tosser-adjacent. *** *** Other opinions are available

[@mrinalkundu1521]

Chromosomes notwithstanding, I completely agree. I’ve been trying for decades.

[@jerrypotente872]

As an ‘xy -er’, myself -I couldn’t agree with you more!

[@notreallydavid]

The worst of his Funny Stuff is painful - he spent too much of the second half of his career in a mechanical smut metal rut, seemingly writing for Beavis and Butthead before they came along. It's the other stuff that's kept me absorbed and cheered up for thirty years. 'Tosser-adjacent' is justified, and quotable. Have you got Huddersfield connections with a surname like that, by the way?

[@mercster]

Here I am, at a famous school... I'm dressin' sharp, and I'm actin' cool...

[@vincentrockel1149]

I have to wonder what Frank would have made of the humorless society we have become. People who can't laugh at themselves are also incapable of having a unbiased and realistic view of the absurdities of life.

[@jasonshort1437]

In my younger days, i was a complete FZ fanatic. These days, I barely listen to him and if i do, its an instrumental or mostly instrumental album.

[@rustybeltway2373]

Me too. Dick jokes and baby octopuses...sorry Frank. Listened to Sleep Dirt the other day and it was excellent.

[@jasonshort1437]

@@rustybeltway2373 yeah I can't listen to any of the Flo and Eddie era. Roy Estrada is a convicted pedophile/rapist, so anything that prominently features him I can't take for too long. Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar, Waka Jawaka, The Grand Wazoo, that stuff gets the most spins at my place.

[@goatuscrow4135]

Yep, Waka Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo live on with me, and Uncle Meat.

[@davidstair9657]

I used to think Zappa was pretentious crap…. Once I listened to him, and a nice joint… it hit me! Zappa is not pretentious crap… I’M THE PRETENTIOUS ONE! FULL OF CRAP, I AM! Anyways, I repented and now I am off to listen to Roxy by Proxy recommended to me by one Andy Edwards! Right on, eh!

[@russellsnodgrass9374]

Yes, and stepping in cow shit in a field is funny if you've gotten high. Dope can help just about anything.

[@c.a.t.732]

You were right the first time.

[@scottmcrae3355]

His music is provoking, complex, and very intriguing. His attempts at humour and social commentary are often not funny enough and/or heavy-handed and obnoxious. I feel Frank often fails as a comedian but never as a musician/composer (whereas I find you, Mr. Edwards, to be a very funny bloke). I pick and choose with Zappa’s catalogue but there is a lot of great stuff to be sure.

[@johannhauffman323]

Wonderful video Andy ! Congratulations on your 40K !

[@mausperson5854]

You don't have to be an apologist for Zappa in terms of normative ethical considerations. However, there is a case to be made for the more bohemian attitude that informs the liberality of say Scandinavian culture as perhaps the most healthy, utilitarian societies that can be had today as a model society. Sociologically speaking it's a demonstrably beneficial to the wellbeing of those anti censorious settings and value systems. These places have pornography on plain display in shops at eye level with kids and yet their record on low rates of sex crime, and recreational drug use is largely tolerated and dealt with from a risk reduction standpoint taking much of the criminal element out of the picture. They are largely secular societies and consequentially not burdened with the guilt, shame, patriarchal dominance and intolerance for sexual persuasion and so forth. Frank was onto something even if god forbid he was an imperfect parent, in being transparent in his lifestyle (honest and unapologetic). A regular square American or Brit family are too enamoured of convention when it comes to the nuclear family as the ideal and all of the prudish, antiquated straightjacketing that comes with traditional Judeo-Christian values. The result is a pressure cooker with no release valve and by extension maladjusted hordes so tightly wound that shooting up schools and such is where we see the dyke start to break. I'm rambling but get a load of the stats on low rates of rape, abuse, murder, violence etc. in places where their is far less moral panic and prudish shielding from reality. It's kind of like the idea that you let your kids have a drink in modest measure and in your company and they are less likely to see it as something exciting and rebellious to bother doing it to excess. Sorry to anyone who read this far. I can't seem to find the brevity to make my point succinctly.

[@markmyra-cn7rd]

ZAPPA Represents a cultural musical and intellectual challenge. It's called, critical thinking. And it's not sugar coated.

[@TheeRobertPhoenix]

You mean like when he made those tracks with Flo and Eddie filled with nothing but stupid, inside jokes that only they thought were funny?

[@markmyra-cn7rd]

@@TheeRobertPhoenix uh, sure. Do you have a point?

[@TheeRobertPhoenix]

@@markmyra-cn7rd Yeah, I do. Why don't you use your critical thinking skills to figure it out. Here, I'll help you out. You cite his music as a cultural challenge which invokes critical thinking. I cited a period of music which I thought was self indulgent, stupid, and filled inside jokes, that were completely devoid of critical thinking culminating in the critical thinking masterpiece of "200 Motels" which was based on secret recordings by Mark Volman of various band members.

[@tigrevert]

Frank Zappa opened me to the music of Edgard Varèse and Wes Montgomery (liner notes of an album)--that is, to contemporary classical music and jazz. he visited Montreal almost every year from 67 ; I saw him every time I could afford it, and every time, his show blew my mind. I owe him a lot and I'm grateful to have seen him and the Mothers live.

[@mikomon309]

Thanks for the Wes shoutout. He was my Uncle. Much obliged.....

[@tigrevert]

@@mikomon309 you're welcome. he is the reason I took guitar. like him I have never used a pick.

[@NealMurfitt]

'Art is the organisation of sensuous impressions into pleasing formal relations which express the sensibilty of the artist and convey to their audience a sense of values which can transform their lives.' Sangharakshita

[@Matias-music-71]

Tried , tried and tried , just never got him , sorry .., and at 52 , listened and listening to so much , experienced so much , lived in South America , Europe , North America .., I really don't think I am going to get Zappa ;) .., great subjects/topic by the way :)

[@vincentrockel1149]

I would image that people who are as driven towards a vision artistically as frank was, are quite narcissistic in behavior and nature. I think it comes with the territory and explains the disregard for the feelings of others.

[@Bluepillphil-d1w]

Zappa’s music is best listened live. Went to a Zappa Plays Zappa gig and it was insane, probably the best live music I ever saw. Hearing that complicated stuff being played and loud is different to hearing the album, makes the annoying tones listenable and less annoying, has you worshipping the musicians.

[@oliverschultz4943]

Man, you are a wealth of legitimate cultural and technical insights about music, I learn so much from your videos, thank you Sir.

[@katskillz]

I went through a heavy Mr Bungle (and Zorn / Naked City) phase in the early - mid 90s before I ever heard a note of Zappa. By the time I did hear Zappa music, I already could access and appreciate less silly recordings of my favorite musicians that were in Zappa's lineups. And I had already burned out on that non-pretentious avant garde-esque ethos of excelling in musical performance in complete service to absurdist / taboo themes. I know that went backwards in musical lineage, but in my case Zappa just never had anything to pique my interest whatsoever.

[@sjbang5764]

John Lennon, Frank Zappa, Lou Reed, John Zorn. "and those who were seen dancing where thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music" ________ Friedrich Nietzsche

[@theodoreconstantini2548]

In my opinion he was a high brow snob who liked to look down on the popular music audience, and who have liked to have been a classical composer but he lacked the training, and skill to be classical, composer, so he made Avante -garde rock music instead, so he could sneer at everybody else. He overall attitude as expressed in his music is a bit of a turn off for me generally. Despite his air of superiority and pretentiousness he was talented as a rock musician , he was an excellent guitarist I put him in the top 100 players easily, he could really play his instrument. So for me his one of these artists I'm a bit ambivalent, about . I much prefer the music of Captain Beef Heart, but I don't think Captain Beef heart was anywhere as good as a musician as Frank Zappa was.

[@sjbang5764]

Don Van Vliet was a true genius. I realize that term is tossed around lightly, but no one has made an album like Lick My Decals Off Baby, and no one most likely ever will. Thank you.

[@rogerskillin8385]

Captain and Tennille were no Captain Beefheart... allegedly.

[@RichardSmith-ot3zk]

His music doesn't take me anywhere I want to go.

[@jublaim]

You have to slip a little as you go.

[@drakebullet4509]

Or, the minute it starts to, he turns 180 degrees and you're off somewhere else. Never got it.

[@robertjoy4846]

It was ITV who made the drama about Horizon and it was the Post office not Royal Mail who prosecuted the sub-post masters.

[@James-hd4ms]

I appreciate your symbolic cymbals. Heavy. Three of them.

[@erikmaronde2244]

I read Moon Unit Zappa's book. After that I still like the music and many of the quotes, but feel sorry for the dysfunctional private/family life of FZ. 👍🎶🖖

[@motherlesschild102]

Giving a kid a name like "Moon Unit" seems neither loving nor understanding to me.

[@MrDaveangelo1]

My friend came up with a nice description of Zappa`s music. He said "If there was an inderdimensional music festival with artists from different galaxies and realities - Frank Zappa would still be among the headliners"

[@richardthurston2171]

Interesting presentation up until approx. 49:30 or so when Andy heads down his “post-Modern, lefties, identitarian” rabbit hole. And interesting how his brief discussion of the disaster in the middle east doesn’t include the words “Palestine” or “Palestinians”. Rather that population and geographical area is reduced to “Hamas”.

[@GlennSmith-m2e]

I thought exactly the same thing. He does that kind of thing a lot.

[@georgesdelatour]

A great video! I absorbed Zappa’s music second-hand, through my brother. He must have bought maybe 40 Zappa albums. I loved Zappa’s most sophisticated music - The Black Page and Studio Tan were favourites - but his Lenny Bruce standup persona mostly didn’t appeal to me. There was one exception: Joe’s Garage. It seemed to be a true “rock opera” in the vein of Tommy. When, on Packard Goose, the vision of Mary announces, “information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, wisdom is not truth, truth is not beauty, beauty is not love, love is not music, music is the best…” I sensed for once that Zappa was not being ironic or sarcastic, or anything other than achingly sincere.

[@Darrylizer1]

Yes! That is Zappa at his most emotionally honest and I love it.

[@jublaim]

This I liked very much! I'm a Zappa fan and find your view here interesting; like the philosophy and toss and turn.

[@marcsullivan7987]

Information is not knowledge Knowledge is not Wisdom Wisdom is not Truth Truth is not Beauty Beauty is not Love Love is not Music MUSIC IS THE BEST

[@WestCoastProf]

"Billy was a mountain, Ethel was a tree growing off of his shoulder" Genius.

[@StevenPD]

Great title. Clear and to the point. It lets the viewer know what the video is about and kind of what to expect, even if it might be artifice. As for the video, I found it interesting and worth while and will leave it at that, or else I'll end up writing an essay instead of a comment. Cheers!

[@mausperson5854]

Well played sir! I suspect those who have dug their heels in about giving Frank the stink eye will be hard won over to the dark side of the zoot. But you have chosen a nice mode to operate in, to give them a good push into the reconsideration room. I'm reading Moon's book at the moment and that's obviously a very singular window into the Zappaverse. That and the Real Frank Zappa Book as a companion pieces, I think would twist the arm of anyone with a modicum of good will to put on the long pants and join us in that room enough for them to 'get it' if not like it. My partner sees him as a chauvinistic dinosaur who made self indulgent silly music and yet, many a time I've put FZ on and she happily bops away to it until a hint of a giveaway melodic trope or that dreaded voice breaks the spell and she insists she was having a mild seizure rather than admit to liking it. You make a good case for people like her to take him out of the misogynistic Weird Al cartoon character they've understandably mistaken him for and look at his personality more charitably and maybe, just maybe own up to their secret appreciation of the scope of the man's genius. I'm not holding my breath though 😉

[@paulgaskell452]

I Listened to Freak out! Earlier. Loved it

[@theworldaccordingto4555]

Freak Out! is one of my all time faves by The Mothers of Invention/Zappa.

[@Bluepillphil-d1w]

First one I listened to, and the best.

[@jerrypotente872]

Andy, I love this episode! As a music fan, whose lack of knowledge on Zappa could fill the Encyclopaedia Britannica, I do love peaches in regalia, gorgeous piece of music. I believe as an American born in 1955 that my baby boomer generation was probably the most spoiled and coddled of all people, the factors for that were the incredible financial success of the USA after World War II and the G.I. Bill, which allowed people like my father a poor working class Italian kid who served at the end of World War II to truly have a middle-class life in the American dream . What sued was that? We grew up with a certain amount of affluence that no lower class kids before us could imagine. But we were helped and not solely guilty of what happened to us. Starting with television, and the four mention affluence in the states as well as Madison Avenue , not only selling to our parents, but also to us as toddlers and children and teenagers every possible consumable good that we could imagine it definitely in my opinion to delirious effects later in our lives! I believe many of the baby boom, was spoiled and felt entitled to so much And to have their gratifications met and that might’ve led to the age of Aquarius hippie dumb drugs, rampant sex, and all the other excesses that came with the rock ‘n’ roll lifestyle of the late 60s and 70s bracket {I was not immune from some of these excesses], and who’s to say if it was for good or for ill??? I believe Zappa really express those excesses whether he was goofing on it or truly just a part of it I don’t know? Anyway a great show and maybe if humanity survives these days future historians will ridicule what happened in the middle to late part of humans 20th century!?!?? Thanks brother you give us a lot of food for thought that we’re not gonna get from Rick Beato not saying I don’t like him. I’m just saying we’re not gonna get that from Beato , another pompous message from your little friend Jerry Potente 872L O L

[@jerrypotente872]

I meant about 4 or 5 lines down what ensued from that was the richest period in United States history that had a profound effect on the middle class, upwardly, striving families, and their children.

[@jerrygawronski965]

I purchased Them or US the day it came out. It was the first digital record I ever bought. I took the train to New York from Philly to See both nights of Does Humor belong in music. I had an idea of what the album was going to be like. After its release I saw him do 2 shows in one night at the Tower Theater in Upper Darby PA. I started to listen to him in 1976 when I was ten. I also bought a used copy of Hot Rats when I was 11. Frank came to Philly 1985 and 1986 and didn't play. It was called Zappaween. He signed autographs and carried on. I said to Frank why did you remaster Sleep Dirt ? I liked it the way it was and he said because it's mine and that's the way I like it. I can go on and on. 1988 tour was wonderful but I had a feeling that I'd never see him again. So I went all 3 nights at the Tower Feb12 13 14. Then I took a bus to Allentown PA in March and finally I saw the last american Zappa show @ Long Island with Hot Tuna opening. I am so grateful to have seen these shows.Possibly the best memories I have in life.

[@richardthurston2171]

Saw Frank a couple of times back in the day. The band with Flo and Eddie was a total kick. That said, while lots of talented musicians are jerks, I’ve never seen anyone who worked so hard at being objectionable as he.

[@davidwhiteford4936]

Outstanding coherent presentation, great job Mr. Edwards.

[@GlennSmith-m2e]

Harold MacMillan, you've never had it so good.

[@lamecasuelas2]

Andy, what you said Made me think of How the Panos Cosmatos film Mandy, reflects the evolution of the counter culture values at it's worst. And i'd even argue that they aré not even being twisted at all but instead; It just just a natural extensión of them. Anyway, as for the second part. I am just reminded of a certainty phrase: Every villain Is the hero of their own story. I think that in the moment that you aré setting yourself of a certainty group into a path of so called righteousness you aré setting up yourself to fail, because when you adopt that label, from your point of View you aré no longer capable of doing wrong. I find that idea fascinating because It dictates some of the Most horrific and world shattering acts in history.

[@vincentrockel1149]

Actually, the real question regarding the isreali/Palestinian conflict is, is a nation based on supremacy of one group over another a morally palatable concept? Especially in light of a willingness of said ideology to use genocide to enact ethnic cleansing.

[@DeanJonasson]

Powerful presentation with many interesting and deep ideas. Three points that sprung to mind as I listened were: ~ I often hear a reason for censorship or "cancelling" of an artist or ideas is that these will be "triggering" to others who may have suffered under those artist or ideas. We should not tolerate such ideas because of the effect they will have on others. This is used as a justification for censorship as much as 'these ideas will inspire not-smart-people to act out'; ~ a lot of rock artists in the '60s were influenced by the Blues of the '30s, '40s and '50s. Many Blues men (mostly men) railed against women, seeing sexual conquest as a game they must win or, if denied, women as a foe they would be justified in defeating. The situation of those Blues artists was quite dire and that context provided the power behind their songs. Young artists coming to age in the '60s emulated this stance because it evoked power and sexual potency. The market place liked that (imitated or borrowed) stance and so it flourished. Unfortunately, it also permeated in the lifestyles of both artist and patron (fan) which resulted in some very despicable behaviour all around. Nowadays, many who had or who continue to act this way are getting censored, cancelled or are brought before the law; ~ should the art of an artist who is a flawed human being be censored or cancelled? Was Picasso a genius? Yes. Was he a good human being who treated his partners and children with respect? No. How are we to regard his art, in this light? The same can be said for Zappa. Should we dismiss his art because of learning about how he treated others? In the end, it's for every patron (fan) to figure out for themselves. However, one caveat is that if an artist (even a genius) is going to treat those around them badly, they risk having their art possibly tainted by the knowledge of that behaviour. Art as both a privilege and a responsibility. Thanks, Andy!

[@VIDSTORAGE]

Hey! Down in Joe's Garage We didn't have no dope or LSD But a coupla quarts'a beer would fix it So the intonation would not offend your ear And the same old chords Goin' over and over became a symphony We could play it again and again and again 'Cause it sounded good to me One more time! / If you hate Zappa you hate you-sself

[@Bluepillphil-d1w]

Beefheart is “crazier” musical composition wise than Zappa. Trout Mask Replica is insanely complicated and they could play all that live.

[@paulvassallo3317]

ONYA Andy. Your the only one talking about this stuff on You tube at least. I love your shows. Frank was a very complex human being like the rest of us. I love his music. Today, he might be considered to be someone with Asperger's. Maybe?

[@howardduck2851]

Funny that John Etheridge is the last man standing in Soft Machine, when that band (after Daevid Allen left) was decidedly a non-guitar-player band during their most impactful pinnacle period. But of course, Bundles was a pivotal moment in music history, as was IOU.

[@TripleBerg]

Hearing what Moon Zappa said about her childhood puts Frank Zappa in a different light for me. Even more surprising given that she played a role in his career. But I guess we cannot assume that being a creative genius guarantees ethical character or parenting responsibilities and behavior we would expect from most people. But by definition, being unconventional in creative endeavors, it should not surprise us that such a person does not follow our conventions in other areas. Not giving Zappa a pass, but we cannot hold up the mirror of our conventions to an unconventional person and expect it will reflect the values and principles we expect from ourselves.

[@QuicksilverSG]

I've been a long-term Mothers of Invention fan, ever since Freak Out was released, and saw them several times in concert. But Frank Zappa's jazz fusion instrumental work in the 70's always left me cold. I realized what was missing for me after I got into Jeff Beck's Blow By Blow/Wired phase. What I found unique in Beck's jazz fusion was exactly what was missing in Zappa's guitar playing. I admit it's an unfair comparison, given Zappa's highly collaborative/compositional approach versus Beck's improvisational virtuoso style. As it turned out, discovering Jeff Beck pretty much capped off my early 70's interest in progressive rock in general. As for Frank's legendary misogyny, I always regarded him as a traditional patriarch who just happened to live through the LA hippie era. If you found a useful place in his entourage, he would make sure you had what you needed for as long as you served that role in his life and work. I recently read Moon Zappa's new book, and it was full of nostalgic details which refreshed my memories of Frank Zappa's unique take on life.

[@TheeRobertPhoenix]

Zappa and Davis are the Sag/Gemini axis and Coltrane and McLaughlin are the Libra/Aries axis.

[@timothyqrobinson9862]

Andy, very insightful talk. All I would add is that the artists who joined the 27 club, it could be argued, did so to protect the value of a catalogue, which they themselves didn't own.

[@JeffCooper10538]

Valley Girl was literally the track that got me into Zappa.

[@Dayglodaydreams]

The Ramones DO have great energy. Their simplicity is almost a beauty.

[@kdakan]

To me, Zappa albums have a lot of clutter and a few gem tracks. I can't listen to his albums from beginning to end, to me this is low production value. He is a genius and experimental musician but working with good producer who could say no would help improve the overall quality of the albums. Also his guitar solos are unnecessarily long at times. Less is more in that sense. I never enjoyed Steve Vai, so those later albums with Steve Vai are useless for me. Same for Captain Beefheart and their collaborations. I can easily be put off by Zappa's vocals as well if they're prominent in the mix. I'm not a fan but never hated Zappa either. I don't like very fast players because they can't phrase a melody properly, a lot of the music is showcasing. Melody and phrasing is an art form, equal to harmony and rhythm. Many pro level post 60's musicians don't understand how to properly use dissonance and resolve it, make use of intervals, form longer phrase melodies longer than maybe a couple measures at most. They use their muscle memory and practice scales, arpeggios, licks, whatever, the mechanical things that don't matter. If you can not sing your melodies, and you are playing faster than you can sing, sorry for you, you will never be able to play anything of emotional value. When you are describing Zappa's counter stand, I'm thinking the 50's beat poets and writers, vs. the later 60's Beatnics and the popular Beatles mania. Maybe all Zappa wanted to be was the musician equivalent to a Beat novelist or poet, who knows. About the woman rights, I believe women are the only capable beings who can understand, analyze and solve their own problems, GIVEN THE CHANCE. I don't like men forming decisive opinions on woman rights, because I don't thing men are capable of understanding a woman's needs in the first place. There is the biological difference that hinders men from that. I also do think in some ways women have more rights and less abuse today but also less rights and more abuse in other ways, but I may be wrong as I am a man, so let them decide and negotiate on that. Same goes for identity politics, we are social beings and we have many identities, not just what's on our id card or what we believe is a genuine personal trait, and it is changing all the time, based on conversation. Most of the social identities are not based on facts, social sciences are not based on facts, they are based on perception. No need to heat up on these discussions like anything is absolute fact. Regarding th Israel occupation of Palestine, British colonialism started most of the problems in the middle east and the us then continues on the same track even amplifying them.

[@sigilork785]

If you are a real music fan there will come a time when you will listen to him - that is an effort but in the its more than worth it. I first stumbeld into Zappa in 1979 and the older i got the more I apreciated him - thise days I love his work. Its not something for every day but if the feeling is right and you listen to his work it can be like a fountain of youth

[@TWOMERCY]

Fantastic video, really appreciate your insights!

[@SwampEye1]

Let s face it ... Zappa is the Goaty himself ...

[@BillyBanter100]

You've certainly bitten off a hefty wedge of pop morality with this one Andy and kudos for that. Zappa, like all humans, was imperfect. Many of his earlier compositions I think were brilliant. The 70s introduced a more sleazy element into his work which I didn't find as funny or smart as Zappa obviously did. I saw Zappa and his new band live at the Collosium in London in 1970. As an impressionable 17 year old at the time I was impressed but still preferred the original Mothers of Invention.

[@thepagecollective]

Listening to Zappa is like constantly being told Zappa is a genius and if someone must constantly be named genius, he's probably not. Zappa is musically brilliant, but irritating, and he is lyrically smug and mocking and childish. I don't care about the other stuff.

[@kdakan]

Prog musc killed a generation of their young fans' creative outlet. Punk solved that problem and was a reaction to prog only for this reason. Prog required its musicians to have so much virtuosity that its fans were put off from creating, the only option left for fans of that music was appreciation. Punk music gave back the rights to young people to start over, do their own thing, with minimal skills, and thus create something, find their own voice, and react, rather than just appreciate and idolize. I experienced this thing myself as a young music fan and player, I also hear this from not music critics but punk, post punk, post hardcore musicians themselves. I was just listening to a recent podcast interview with Shudder to Think vocalist and he said the same thing. Being a fan of prog and fusion in my teens and twenties, I did not find the courage to write my own music until I discovered punk, post punk, post hardcore, and post rock music, I was chained until then.

[@drakebullet4509]

I'll give Zappa one thing - he knew people like Andy would be carrying on like this about his work long after he was dead!

[@JohnnyRecently]

Superb video, Andy.

[@howardduck2851]

For me, Frank Zappa’s greatest performance was his 1985 senate testimony.

[@motherlesschild102]

Thanks for another thoughtful video. I cannot have just ONE opinion on Frank Zappa. I think Frank changed over his lifetime, I changed, and the times certainly changed. Too often however, I felt like he was sneering at something or someone, and was inviting the listener to sneer along with him. If his music was ever compassionate (and I think it was) he undercut the compassion a song or two later with sneering and or "punching down". The perfect example is "The last guitar solo" and "Punky's Lips" both from "Joe's Garage. People (me included!!) have an ugly habit of "weaponizing" their morality rather than accepting both themselves and others-which includes many personal likes and dislikes. "You love me, you hate me, you know me and then, you can figure out the bag I'm in." I am just too different from both Frank Zappa and yourself to ever (honestly) have him as one of my most influential musicians- but that's OK. Maybe I don't/can't fully appreciate his greatness, but I can acknowledge him as great -at least sometimes and in some ways. Censorship and Identity Politics both suck. Lack of Compassion sucks.(There! Some Moral Judgements!) P.S. At one point I thought of Frank's views regarding women as "Victorian". Now I think "Edwardian" fits better.

[@monsirto]

"Context", something we seem to forget these days. Very easy to acknowledge your heroes are deeply flawed. It makes them more interesting anyway.

[@maxshea1829]

I agree with you on "the sixties" and morals.

[@schyllic]

If you think music’s purpose is to disturb us, then you’ll have a different response versus someone who wants music to sound nice

[@Carboggg]

I've honestly never heard anyone say they listen to music to disturb them. That's what horror films are for.

[@TeleNikon]

The first thing I do when I arrive at my favorite fireside resort chalet in Aspen, CO, is put on Zappa's SheikYerbouti. Don't judge me.

[@jedtulman46]

Stockhausen. He behaved badly also. (?) Definitely f*cked up when he claimed" 9/ 11 was a great art work"

[@riffmondo9733]

Did he say this? He died in 1993.

[@jedtulman46]

Stockhausen said it

[@MrMaynardWR]

Zappa was the Celine of music. And I am a huge fan of both. Celine felt that there was nothing worse and corrupting than being liked.

[@TractorCountdown]

Nice one, Andy. I listened to Roxy & Elsewhere last night after your Best Live Rock Albums VT, and it made me think of music hall, both in his subject matter, delivery, and musical stylings (lots of whizz-bangs and little turns), plus the very vocal audience response. Do you know if he was influenced by music hall?

[@seed_drill7135]

Bobby Brown is a problematic lyric, but he starts out as a date raping, entitled Chad, before becoming emasculated by Freddie, so perhaps not as objectionable as the brain police might think. He is also happier gay.

[@daicullinane7746]

Who are the Brain Police?

[@williamfarr8807]

Bobby Brown (not the man’s real name) is about a real person who owned a toy store in LA where Gail bought toys for the Zappa children.

[@paulatB2B]

Great analysis which sheds light on my own feelings about music. I love Miles and Trane, respect MJM, but I don't even want to like Zappa .

[@Hartlor_Tayley]

Thumbnail. Lol 🏆

[@Darrylizer1]

My touchstone artists are very similar to yours Andy with one exception: John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Frank Zappa and Jimi Hendrix. So one different.

[@wilddjango]

I truly indentified myself with Zappa from the first moment, he is the genius composer of last century but don't forget! great part of his music was filled with HUMOR and so I took it always. People who does not like him I think don't understand the humor and take it to personal and then arguments starts. "Does humor belongs into music"? Yes it does! Mary youve to home home, on the bus"Your father is waiting in the toolshed! isn't that what life is al about!🤣🤣😂

[@chrisquinn9104]

The real connection between Davis and Zappa? They both had cameos on Miami Vice.

[@doggod07]

A pretty good video. For a drummer.

[@aminahmed2220]

Awesome video have a great day Andy ❤😊

[@bakeone4406]

Hendrix both instrumentally and lyrically is sometimes viewed as a naïve and unsophisticated, (but somewhat inspired) artist. This view misses how much he changed the vocabulary of post 60's popular music and how much he influenced artists like John McLaughlin, Zappa and Miles Davis. He's about as big a contributor as anyone who lived during his brief career. FZ has a much larger body of work and for sure the scope and quality of his music is in many ways unparalleled in contemporary art. The attentive listener will likely see his compositions differently over time. Twenty Small Cigars, Holiday in Berlin, Idiot Bastard Son, What's New In Baltimore, Blessed Relief, Zoot Allures and many others demonstrate a level of compositional brilliance that places him next to Duke Ellington, Charles Mingus and Bach as an artist. Picasso was maybe not a real swell guy and Mozart supposedly, (much like FZ) enjoyed scatalogical humor... you'll miss out if that's all you wanna focus on. You never know, some of that stuff and his doo wop leanings might sneak up and grow on you. Truth is, big bands, small jazz units, rock bands and orchestras are probably going keep playing Zappa compositions long after most of us have completely decomposed.

[@GMTPoet]

Not intended to counter a very thoughtful video, but I just finished Moon Unit’s book, and it seems to me that Zappa’s biggest problem was not about the culture around him, but his own ego. Her view was he was was so focused on his music, and his sexual appetites, that he couldn’t really pay attention to the other people around him. So, not a great person, but still a brilliant musician.

[@donello430]

My stepdad used to play Zappa when I was a kid and it repulsed me, everything about it, the music, the grotesque covers, the perverse vibe, how he looks. I'd sometimes have to leave the house. This strong dislike, almost a fear, lasted my whole life, so I felt I had to listen to him now to get over this irrational aversion. I listened to Hot Rats and Freak Out! and got over it. There's talent and creativity, for sure, but I still can't enjoy it. My point is keep it away from children, it's deeply disturbing to an 8 year old mind, lol

[@NelsonMontana1234]

I used to love Zappa. Then I grew out of it. Besides the fact that i always thought his is humor is on the puerile side it's the music that matters, and that's where I was fooled. Being a prog/fusion guy I admired Zappa's increasingly complex arrangements and the fact that he hired the best musicians to perform it. But intricacy and chops only go so far. When you get right down to it , Zappa's compositions are, for the most part, kinda bullshit. There are a few great things -- Peaches and Regalia (which I covered, on KZbin playing all the parts) and parts of Roxy and Elsewhere and a few bits and pieces here and there, but I can't honestly name one song that is a great composition. His singing is mediocre and his guitar playing is sloppy. Now, if he were a total unknown, I'd probably be screaming from the rafters that people should pay attention to him because he's this interesting self taught guy who likes Varese and Stravinsky and creates demanding music with skillful musicians. But when people talk of him like he's a genius...meh. I'd say he's more on the level of Spike Jones -- talented but nothing that serious. He uses silliness as a novelty to attract a young male audience and he makes music purposely weird and convoluted in the hope that it'll be considered "artsy." And In both cases, it's an indulgence that has no interest to me. But...that's me.

[@Bluepillphil-d1w]

Trouble Everyday is a good genuine normal song. But it was written by someone or with someone else

[@paulmartinson875]

In other words it's beneath you

[@colinburroughs9871]

I read all this slag and then my brain just sorta started running the outro to Inca Roads back to me and it hit me- "this post is kinda bullshit".

[@marcsullivan7987]

The “Zappa is a sloppy guitarist” is so silly. Because he doesn’t solo by evenly dividing the subdivisions into 16th note and 32nd notes? Zappa is an incredible guitarist, unique, expressive, and inventive.

[@NelsonMontana1234]

@@marcsullivan7987 I realize that whatever you disagree with is what you consider silly but you're totally off thinking that not being sloppy is just even division of 16 and 32 notes. He plays some cool stuff but it often sounds tentative and inarticulate. That's fine from an improvisational perspective but Joe Pass he ain't.

[@NealMurfitt]

Have you ever come across the Buddhist ideas of immanence and transcendence. The Buddha strives to become enlightened in time and moves towards it step by step. Out of time he is always enlightened. It's paradoxical, which of course the universe is. (Not imminence btw). I'd say Zappa immanent, Mcglaughlin transcendent. Zappa is in the world growing a beautiful flower, Mcglaughin represents eternity. Om (the eternally enlightened Buddha) mani (the indestructible diamond) padme (the fragile lotus struggling out of the mud to produce a beautiful flower) Hung (the eternally striving Buddha).

[@johnroma9412]

Frank Zappa was a known sex addict/pervert. Highly musically talented but no melodic sense. He eventually put on the best quality rock shows. Vocals and musical talent of his live performances was expert and IMPRESSIVE. His sexual freedom got the attention of law enforcement,and they tried to set him up for pornography distribution charges. Charges were dropped and investigation ended. He beat the attempted frame up. FZ was immoral when it came to fidelity ,but that is rampant today. He was a hypocrite making fun of other addicts but he had a sex addiction himself. Kind of like throwing bricks in a glass house. He was FULL OF CRITICIZEM ,but had a good sense of fairness. Made fun of the right politicians (conservatives) ,and was kind to animals. His family suffered the most ,as is often in Italian family’s. I know. I an second gen American/ltalian. Tough but fair. That’s Frank. He could have been less critical and more forgiving. His guitar playing and live shows are stuff of legend. He didn’t deserve the end he suffered at 52. He disliked the religious fanatics and power seekers. Wrote many songs about it. Them or Us is a good cd. I would you check out it on KZbin.🎸🎸🎤

[@richardhines8622]

Bobby’s problem wasn’t that he was gay, gay is a product of nature. Bobby’s problem was one of narcissism. Thus lay today’s problem of judging people by means of what group they belong too rather than their behavior. Zappa took action on things that pissed him off for the most part.

[@henrydebruijn2259]

He was and still is the greatest Genius of them all in Pop, Rock, Prog music! If he was a good parent...i have my doubts.

[@shadhansen739]

I agree frank was the greatest and that didn't leave time for "parent of the year" but he left behind four formidable kids that to to me show no signs of abuse or even of neglect

[@henrydebruijn2259]

I didn't say he abused or neglect them. But I have seen interviews with Moon Zappa about her new book 'Earth to Moon'. He had no time because his music took all the time. And nobody's perfect. And he criticized with humour the Western society, politics and religion. He was one of a kind.

[@Mister_Jahn]

Have you read Dave Hickey? Invisible dragon then air guitar... (especially My Weimar, short essay but really helpful in this topic)

[@jackiedavies182]

Personally i lost interest in most Zappa after he disbanded the original Mothers in 69. A few nice pieces after that - Waka/Jawaka in particular, but, for me it just turned into endless soloing, over complicated compositions , and just being nasty about people he didn't like.

[@srvuk]

A general dislike of Zappa's music does not equate to hate. A worthy discussion would be to ask why the word hate has become so diluted to be rather meaningless in comparison to what it's actual and far more visceral meaning and feeling is.

[@guillaumechabason3165]

Would Springsteen sing "We have to fall in love on Uranus" ?

[@MrLcowles]

There's an old clip of Frank Zappa on the Mike Douglas show from the '70's where Mike asks Frank about his antidrug sentiments and Frank gives his pat response and then Mike says but don't you smoke cigarettes? and Frank goes ya but it's not the same and then Mike tells him about a relative of his who died a horrible death caused by smoking, a fate which Frank shared, and Frank was left speechless. I dislike his music because I feel that his music is aesthetically terrible. You will never convince me that it isn't. To me listening to Zappa's music is like smelling a pile of shit. I can do it by why would I waste my time and energy on such a pointless pursuit. His sanctimonious hypocrisy is what annoys me about him. Great video buddy.

[@volpeverde6441]

very technical and hard to play - shit.... FRANK - ' these are NOT session men.... these are MUSICIANS....'