Quinfall: The Fakest MMO Ever Made

[@Nuion]

holy moly, no way my man Force Gaming covered my stuff

[@ForceGamingYT]

Great work digging up that info dude, we'd all be none the wiser if not for your vid!

[@Whelp140]

I watched the video and insta subbed to you great stuff

[@Troupe_Master]

You deserve more like, here have one

[@eternaldarkness3139]

Wait... Did Force pull an asset flip??!! 😂

[@simspawn]

Good work man!

[@booksnbooze7796]

The fact that they want you to purchase through them and then they'll send a steam key should be everything you need to know. They don't want anyone using the two-hour return policy because they game will be garbo.

[@TrC450]

That + 30% extra

[@ahornkack21]

and some idiots will do it

[@wordsandletter]

Exactly. This "game" is a cash grab.

[@tesladrew2608]

Or just getting around the 30% steam cut lol. Plus, steam refunds are not zero sum, they cost the developer more than the refund actually returns the buyer. It would be different if steam ate the costs, especially when they take 30 freakin %

[@KingChambers]

@@tesladrew2608why worry about refunds if you have a fun game? Hmph

[@iprfenix]

2 of the things mentioned here should raise additional concerns. 1. As per the Nuion videos, some of the assets in the Quinfall trailer haven't been for sale since 2015-2016. Are we to believe they bought these assets more than 8 years ago? The chances this 'studio' is pirating assets instead of buying them, is a very real possibility. 2. The UI elements Quinfall showed are from BDO. Those UI assets are not pre-made assets for sale, they were ripped from BDO. This adds weight to concern 1. There's a real possibility this 'game' isn't even a low cost asset flip but a no cost stolen asset flip.

[@WowCreativeUsername]

Given how much is "bought" and not created, yeah you're likely right

[@SystemCrasher113]

Or maybe they have been working on that enormous world map for 8 years?

[@WowCreativeUsername]

@@SystemCrasher113 Funny joke, tell another

[@_Victus_]

I swear even their website design looks pretty similiar to BDO

[@Moogle]

the games only been in dev for 3 years lol@@SystemCrasher113

[@trolltollz1317]

Nuion deserves all the credit for exposing this studio and "game"

[@Nuion]

thanks dude!

[@quatreraberbawinner2628]

You know what's funny, you know asmondgold is gonna steal this video, he's been using force's stuff a lot lately

[@Nuion]

Asmongold is the first guy to expose my video to a larger audience and is the reason for a big influx of subscribers. My video was 9 months old before Asmon reacted to it because I send it to him directly, in the hopes he can spread the word. I know many ppl hate on Asmon, but in this case he did nothing but help me and shine a light on this Quinfall situation.@@quatreraberbawinner2628

[@SpiritOfLion]

@@quatreraberbawinner2628asmon already covered Nuion’s videos, Force is kinda late to the party

[@SoullessAIMusic]

what sucks is, like myself, once you are exposed to store purchased assets you will see them everywhere, and it will rip you out of the gaming experience at times lol. You ever wander why that one item in the game isn't as intractable, or breakable as every other time? Probably because it's store purchased cuz designing every small item can be a bitch.

[@dunngyllite7883]

Kudos to Nuion for putting in the work, and props to you for spreading the message (gratz on 1 M subs, btw). Quinfall is off my list now, too many red flags to have any hope left. This is a scam.

[@Nuion]

thanks a bunch

[@emado.7834]

did you really have it on your list in the first place? The game looks like shit

[@micheljolicoeur6094]

I unwishlisted this game as well, the less traffic this SCAM gets the better. The nail in the coffin for me was the fake office space and that purchases being directly on their Turkish website and not Steam.

[@MrGrumblier]

It has more red flags than China.

[@arcanealchemist3190]

one thing people dont bring up often enough about "asset flip" games is because they dont have an artist making their assets, performance suffers. when you have in-house artists, you can choose what fidelity each individual asset has. your chairs probably dont need to be high poly, with 2k textures and a bump map, but the shiniest most popular chair on the asset store is probably gonna have all those features and more to make it as appealing as possible. and because they're stitching together a bunch of other people's code and animations as well, you get a frankenstiens monster where there is no one on the team skilled enough to solve these issues, and no one who can make the assets and code in a way that works specifically for THEIR games needs. and even if the person buying the assets considers all this (unlikely), their unwillingness to hire skilled professionals wont allow them to just, make the game the right way. instead they shill a game that wont ever exist in any state worth playing it in.

[@sscottSTL]

You just summed up the issue of off shore development in a simple and concise paragraph. Can they code? Yes. Do they have the business knowledge of how that code works for your business? No. When I read your comment I was instantly surprised at how it applies to the lower quality "US development" at the corporate level. I call it the shiny apple syndrome.

[@oliver_twistor]

Trying to hide their shenanigans make them look even more suspect and guilty than they already do. For example, why did they remove the office photo after they were found out? Why not stating before the trailer came out something like "We know that some of you will point out that we have used a lot of store-bought assets. That's correct, and the reason for that is that we want to speed up development to get it out the door quicker so we can earn money to hire artists in-house." It would have required a bit of faith to believe them, regardless, but at least it wouldn't have seemed like they were trying to hide that fact.

[@mckaymusicTV]

It's two college kids in a dorm. What can you expect?

[@NotTheStinkyCheese]

better to ask for forgiveness after the fact than the ask for permission before ...

[@rickyjanzen6684]

Why post such a fake pic in the first place? Yeah, it's pretty easy to justify purchased assets for your game--like stated here and many other videos, that's why such assets exist. But to outright lie about something as trivial as your office front? You don't come back from that with a simple statement.

[@MakoRuu]

At least we're getting good at pointing the scams out. And all the KZbin channels that cover it save people a lot of money and headaches. Thank you.

[@millirabbit4331]

At this point, everyone has had the opportunity to realize you shouldn't preorder or buy games without getting feedback from others. I really feel no sympathy for people who buy day one or preorder. You paid with incomplete information and you KNOW in recent years even AAA games have released broken or unfinished.

[@justifano7046]

I don't think they are lol Force had a video where he seemed interested in the game. Then the exposed video comes out, now everyone is like "Wow it's so obvious this isn't real"

[@gameburn178]

@@justifano7046 So-called "content creators" have been slow to see their ethical responsibilities or even their role as proper critics.

[@TheDizzled32]

Scam mmos that are promising to be the next big thing are becoming a genre in itself.

[@MorbidEel]

@@TheDizzled32 someone eventually made the puzzles from those ads, maybe we'll be lucky enough to get an MMOs that delivers on all promises of the scaMMOs 😂

[@Games4Kickz]

Never mind store assets or not. The trailer was presented very clearly using scripted scenes custom made rather than gameplay. Plus the developer never showed actual fluid gameplay. If you ever see a game by a developer nobody ever heard off, with trailers clearly using scripted "gameplay" rather than actual gameplay, plus making huge claims of what the game will be (not is), it should immediately raise red flags. Just like Day Before! Genuine Developers who are new on the scene and have an actual game go out of their way to showcase development progress, small gameplay videos or even demos. This game was/is red flag central, never mind the asset nonsense.

[@Typhoon731]

I think it's also noteworthy, that the Founder of Wawraek Game Studio, Murat Komurcu, is also the CEO of BuyNoGame. The Person mentioned has two different LinkedIn Profiles, which are totally separated from each other, with no cross Links. So in short, the Founder of the Studio "making" Quinfall, has also a leading Role in an RMT Website, basically funneling money through the "game" into his own Pockets.

[@Krippticbdf]

Been proven fake.

[@BJGvideos]

​@@KrippticbdfOh?

[@greedyyawgoo5635]

@@Krippticbdf no matter, this game is fake

[@llamacebu216]

Money laundering for other people

[@Zaku14CK]

I just want studios to figure it out that I don't care about the size of game worlds. I care if they are interesting. Hopefully a lesson is learned from Starfield.

[@TheRogueWolf]

Getting their studio from an asset pack really shows committment to the process.

[@ArariaKAgelessTraveller]

Well it's indie studio, But that makes it even worse

[@simonandersson6871]

I am a solo indie developer. For certain games, I've bought up top 90% of environments, characters, sound etc from different marketplaces. To create every aspect of the game yourself would not only time a huge amount of time but.. a jack of all trades, master of none - you'd have to learn every skill within game development and then also create it. The end result would most likely not look better than if you'd buy high quality assets from people who specialize is character modeling, sound, particles, texturing etc.. The issue here is that they have 56 people. At least a couple of them should be able to produce some of the main characters and animations at the very least, but probably more than that.

[@Crystalwizardtrue]

out of curiosity got any games on steam that i can check out?

[@guyincognito1406]

Same, I can code functionality like breathing. Graphics, not my strong suit.

[@simonandersson6871]

@@Crystalwizardtrue I have an upcoming game called COMA that is made using Unreal in which many of the graphical assets are purchased ones My first steam game that I released is called Misplaced which was made using Unity where I did not buy any graphical assets and instead created them myself

[@Crystalwizardtrue]

@@simonandersson6871 awesome ill seriously check em out i like supporting indi deveelopers

[@Ruffi0]

Yea I’m so sick of oh they used assets!?! Who gives af as long as the game is good. Which isn’t here lol but still

[@wttruax5816]

glad that we have channels like you and many others to help us expose these scammers

[@dreadbull5039]

The only way to stop companies like this are to call them out on their bullshit and hopefully enough people will hear the truth and the company looses their ass financially. Unfortunately these companies still manage to fleece people for hundreds of thousands of dollars

[@1IGG]

And I thought we could enforce laws against fraud. My mistake.

[@robinv1485]

like they did with maplestory? Fine 10 million, while they made 400 million? Its a systematic issue, once you get rich you're above the law .@@1IGG

[@AuroraDawnxx97]

Just look at the day before, despite how obvious it was a scam, some people still defended it

[@grimnir2142]

tbh the whole game can be 100% storebought assets as far as i care, if the fightsystem is great, the story is amazing and there is a great skillsystem for jobs and somewhat unique classes no one is gonna care about it .. the real problem is that they really went and said "look at what i made" while showing nothing besides storebought assets.

[@Warlock8ZERO]

Great video, and appreciate you giving credit to Nuion! Unless their next "trailer" shows actual gameplay, with a character walking around, interacting, crafting, fighting and travelling, while all being uncut footage, it will most likely just be a scam and should be avoided at all costs, otherwise giving money to these types of people will just cause more of them to create asset flips garbage in the future, and they will no doubt get better at hiding it. Quinfall probably took a few pointers from the day before, but said they will run a better scam.

[@rbtsavage]

I'm no longer buying quinfall even IF they make their own assets down the road.

[@Kovac_]

@@rbtsavage Oh boy, never work in the game development industry, you'd be absolutely mindbroken by things like proof of concept or vertical slices

[@rbtsavage]

@@Kovac_ my minds already broken by those terms! Might be why I'm not in the industry.

[@greedyyawgoo5635]

"Unless their next "trailer" shows actual gameplay, with a character walking around, interacting, crafting, fighting, and traveling, while all being uncut footage, it will most likely just be a scam "Somebody did that already, called Chronicle of Elyria and turns out to be the biggest scam accumulating almost 9M funds. these kinds of games don't need a trailer or screenshot, they need, Early Access, you need feedback from players especially if you only have a few employees.

[@Kovac_]

@@greedyyawgoo5635 What trailer? They have a beta on steam in 7 days. Play it and see for yourself.

[@zengineer3369]

Hearing "10 times bigger than x" is enough for me to shut the door on the salesman when it comes to games.

[@grimklang]

i wouldn't mind a fun "unity - the game" made wholly from assets, put together in a clever and enjoyable way. just tell us that it is.

[@Legionope]

Interior Worlds was pretty cool.

[@PressA2Die]

I'm petty sure that is the premise of 'Only Up'

[@Sanguivore]

Agreed completely!

[@12stepsbeyondtheeventhorizon]

I just love it when shady companies talk about their "proprietary artificial intelligence tools" and boasting about having a massive open world when engines like UE5.2 now have basically free and incredibly powerful tools that do exactly that, such as can be seen in Unreal's GDC 2023 demo. It's pathethic. Thank you, Force, for having a vigilant, all-seeing eye for bullshit and sharing it with us, and for shouting out Nuion's hard work.

[@oliver_twistor]

Proprietary is such a buzzword. All it means is that it's not free to use and/or modify. It can still be complete crap. When people hear proprietary, they immediately believe it's good, or at least better than the free alternatives on the market, for example UE5's built-in tools.

[@FBAKTdaGoat]

​@@oliver_twistorNo offense you have a very.... Consumer.. Based logic here.. UE is free cause its VERY limited and messing with the engine code is equivalent to lacing up both shoes with one shoestring in order to add to the engine or build frameworks for it.. Furthermore have you not noticed ALL UE5 games have been 30fps and stuggled to hit consistent 60??? Thats what happens when your engine is VISUALLY focused and not much room for systems.. People NEED to do proprietary cause its better for indivuality.. Games suck now cause they mostly use UE and Unity thats why they all look and feel the same.. Trust me you should WANT proprietary, other wise it means "The same visuals as this game and gameplay of that game" for all games..

[@cynthiahembree3957]

@@FBAKTdaGoatYou are actually wrong on all UE5 games struggling to maintain frames of 60. Valorant is made in UE5 and I consistently get 140+. A game I’m playtesting in pre alpha also can consistently run well above 60 frames. This specific game actually hasn’t been optimized yet. So the claim that it’s all UE5 games is just false. Also the art style point is also not a good one because again VALORANT. Also the playtest game I referenced uses stylized graphics similar to Fortnite. I don’t blame you for not knowing necessarily because Valorant’s engine isn’t super common knowledge

[@FBAKTdaGoat]

@@cynthiahembree3957 Valorant was made in UE4 then transfered to UE5.. Its also PC only so the point is mute at least on what I'm saying.. I'm not saying nor said "ALL" I said MOST are and games like Gotham Knights and Redfall are 2 great examples of that.. And again when your using the free engines its limited.. Hence people always going "Hyper realistic" or "Fortnite like Stylization"... Cause as I said it makes things samey.. People may not love them now but remember Bethesdas famous caise thier ENGINE, not even game exactly.. And most games REALLY making moves ARE NOT the UEs or Unity its Larians engine, or Rockstar with the "Rage" engine, or CDPR with the "Red" engine..

[@ninetailedfox579121]

​@@FBAKTdaGoat "and games like Gotham Knights and Redfall are 2 great examples of that.." Except that Gotham Knights and Redfall are both made on UE4... UE5 is still in its infancy and almost no major titles made with it have been released yet. Lords of the Fallen and The Finals are the only two major games I can find that were made with UE5 and they both run extremely well. Also it's "moot" not "mute". Also also yes you did quite literally say all. "Furthermore have you not noticed ALL UE5 games have been 30fps and struggled to hit a consistent 60???" Where does it say "most" in that? You even put it in ALL caps.

[@Caio-ow5tm]

MMO community is so thirsty that anything that comes out doesn't even need to look good to get the spotlight

[@Fergus-H-MacLeod]

It's an audience that is ripe for a good scam. Lol

[@Caio-ow5tm]

@@Fergus-H-MacLeod it's almost like they want to be scammed, it's crazy

[@Lenariet]

This would maybe be worth writing a thesis on. The MMO player and the psychology of falling for grand claims, how specifically the MMO genre seems ripe with lofty yet vague promises of endlessness, hugenessnes and "everything is possible, all your dreams will come true". Like as if one day there were some holy grail to be found in these games to end all others. I had been disillusioned about MMOs a long time ago. But other people seem to desperately cling to their somewhat naive wet dreams regarding them. This also has ties to the metaverse topic, I believe it's no accident that a lot of NFT scams used that term when promoting their crap.

[@Hoto74]

And that also makes me worried for good MMOs that will come out. That MMO community has a lot of toxicity in it since many years and their behavior reminds me on locusts that leave only scorched earth behind... you can imagine what will happen if they are really hungry.

[@swampssa]

@@Hoto74Let’s start here…good MMO’s don’t exist anymore. There’s a handful of older ones still around but that’s about it. The MMO system is just a cash grab these days.

[@jonathanhughes8679]

Buying all those assets would be the way you get a game out quickly but as you said it’s not going to be easy to make a cohesive game.

[@BruderSenf]

i really dont mind using asset packs, even using mainly asset packs isnt necessary bad if you use them well for a game with good/fun mechanics. years ago a friend of mine used all assets to recreate gothic 1 (not the whole game but a good chunk of it) and reworked the movment and combat system for a programming exercise. it looked and played amazing

[@skunkpelz]

another huge factor to only using store bought assets is performance. A lot of store bought assets are not optimized, and are sold at a high polycount in order to allow the developers to downscale the models to their needs. I am willing to bet the studio hasn't spent the time or money to optimize 17k worth of assets, especially if all they're using is store bought assets. If you have noone that can make the assets themselves, you probably don't have many people on your staff that truly understand environment art from an optimization perspective. This extends to code. If they are using purchased modules for their programming, these aren't always the most efficient, especially considering when you tape a bunch of those modules together.

[@NeoFireFly]

dude ripped them to shreds lol thank you for the honest and blatant call out, people NEED to be aware of these gaming devs and companies and that they often times sell you what's not really true

[@vurrx]

Nuion did all the work. This dude basically just did "reaction content"

[@willlienellson7451]

"Yeah, I like when all ambitious projects are attacked and killed early so we have more time to complain about AAA studios" - average gamer

[@TegridyMadeGames]

Fun Fact: Rust Legacy was made with a ton of unity 5 assets from the asset store.

[@loganbrandt8881]

There are also a lot of procedural generation assets on the Unity asset store as well. You can plug in the other assets (trees, buildings, etc) for the generator to use and have the "largest" map ever in less than half an hour. There's a full MMO engine as well (Atavism). The artistic assets seem to be what most people are focused on, but all of the systems (combat, climbing, locomotion, crafting, skill trees) are available too. I'm really confused about what all their employees are doing because you can realistically purchase everything they've shown from the asset store. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to find out this is really just a couple of people who bought every asset bundle they could from Humble Bundle in the last few years and threw it all into Unity.

[@tylern6420]

Theres Blink too, several games just use that

[@nathangwyn6098]

This video and many of the comments are frustrating because they reflect such a narrow perspective. From what I understand, the developers are a new studio with a small team, and purchasing asset packs is a practical decision. It speeds up development and reduces costs, which is crucial given how challenging it is to create an MMO-the most difficult genre to get right. Not to mention, the current economic climate is tough for any studio, let alone an indie team. They’re working with the resources they have, so why all the hate? Unless they falsely claimed that everything was custom-made, I don’t see why they’re being accused of being a "fake" project. Should they be expected to release the game for free just because they didn't create every asset from scratch? Or should they go into debt just to appease these critics? Game development is incredibly time-consuming and expensive, and at least this team is putting in the effort. Concepts like MVPs (Minimum Viable Products), prototyping, and crowdsourcing exist for a reason-they allow teams to focus on the core mechanics, story, and gameplay while utilizing pre-made assets to build a foundation, create hype, and to secure additional funding. Once the foundation/MVP is established and tested, they can slowly start fleshing/changing them out with custom-made assets. Building an MMORPG from the ground up, especially for an indie team, is an enormous challenge, often a decade-long endeavor. Sure, it's ambitious, but calling the game fake is premature and unfair. Let’s see how they handle player feedback and adapt. For all we know, they could evolve into the next big studio like Blizzard (highly doubtful, but possible). I understand some may feel it looks like a cash grab, but we need to recognize the difference between cutting corners and smartly allocating resources. If they had a huge budget and used the same approach, maybe there would be room for criticism. But right now, we should appreciate the fact that they’re doing what they can with limited resources. A future where most content creation is nearly fully automated is right around the corner. random note: KZbin is going to look very identical to Netflix here soon-ish. You heard it from me first!

[@shaalil]

It's such a shame that we get our hopes up for games which just seems to be entirely fraud. HOWEVER I really appreciate you force for actually enlightening us who arent as knowledgable or have the time to find this info

[@Eldenbruh]

We? I dont have hopes at all for games until its been reviewed and out for atleast 1 week. Thats the fix for you, keep doing that and your wallet will love you.

[@shaalil]

@@Eldenbruh i mean yea, alot of us do but I've stopped pre ordering unless like some titles that have a good developer rep like insomniac with Spiderman 2

[@EvilAnomaly]

@@Eldenbruh AMEN. I have no part in the Gaming Community constantly instantly drooling over TRAILERS. Learned my lesson eons ago! Until I see some raw (NOT controlled by the Studio, Studio Edited, or special sponsored) gameplay I don't really give a game much thought. There's some games on my radar for this year but I have no hype for them until they get beyond the trailer, hard restricted gameplay, etc season.

[@FlamespeedyAMV]

​@@shaalilSpiderman 2 sucked

[@ancient1350]

​@@EvilAnomalySame here. Since 2012 (Max Payne 3 collectors Ed.). It's been shite ever since reskinning, GameStop raising the price of used and/or reskinned games (Old EA/Sports/wrestling/etc. games used to cost $2 & $3), and pre-ordering (basically committing yourself to purchase, the opposite of smart capitalism/consumerism). Auto-genetated/"soulless" missions was another drop in quality. DRM/online-only/multiplayer only, more quality dips. Basically (most of the industry) is just drug dealing dopamine for techno junkies at this point. (I Think) There are a few decent studios still, but most are smaller; - like fat girls, they try harder.

[@Reelix]

Congrats on 1m subs! Following you from the early SC Days, the D3 Beta podcasts with Sixen - The change of name (ForceStrategy) - It's been a long road. So - Congrats :)

[@copperclawz]

Thanks for keeping an eye on the BS and letting us know

[@Ashainm]

Now could be wrong, but the farm that's seen at 8:35. I believe those are from V rising amusingly, the plants that is. Some have been recolored a little, but it definitely felt familiar. But again, could be wrong :3

[@Kaganath]

I just want a good MMO soon

[@Rygl_]

Don't we all... :(

[@2SK3TCHY]

the ones available now aren't sufficient enough? I wanna play w.e. MMO you want, don't mean it in any rude way. lol

[@DoctorStrange01]

Your best bet would be Riot's MMO. In fact, that will probably the only relevant MMO aside from WoW and Guild Wars, unless we count ancient games like Runescape. It's always the same shit : create hype, release a shitty game that will fold in a few months at best, rinse and repeat.

[@nicorobin7762]

once human

[@farguc]

@@DoctorStrange01 You realize runescape is newer than WOW?

[@adamcboyd]

Our companies motto is "Make everything you own. Own everything you make." We did the opposite, a team of two sometimes three decided that the only way to give a singular vision for our near-future realistic VR game where you hurl yourself though maglev traffic to get to the other side of the city before the sun comes up, otherwise you and your friend will be dead by the hands of the ruling corpo-gang of the district you have to go through. I specifically refused to not make another shooting gallery and that the game was the first step towards a series of game with out new IP. I bootstrapped the entire than and it has taken three years for me and my lead dev to get it to the point where we are about to do some playtests on Steam and decide how we want to sell what we have made so far. It was nothing but challenges and overcoming insane amounts of adversity bullshit but here we are.

[@randomxgen6167]

"We at studio care about transparency. That's why we mentioned absolutely none of these glaring issues until multiple independent sources started covering it."

[@aiRCoft]

12:07 - That's "2,016 square kilometers", not "216,000 square kilometers". :/

[@nordy259]

If they want to end this all they have to do is show real gameplay. Upload a video of an hour or so of Devs playing the game so we can see systems functioning.

[@Eldenbruh]

Too late for that,people care about these things, and this is not gamedevelopment, this is basicly paatching. They made nothing themselves and they never will.

[@Lenariet]

People had been asking that for The Day Before too. We all remember how that ended. But hey, allegedly there will be a closed beta on the 30... I mean, TDB was supposed to have one too...

[@1IGG]

Dude, why bother? It's literally impossible to create a good MMO, even with basically unlimited funds like Amazon game studio. In the whole history it happened a handful of time and those games took at least a decade to get decent. MMO can never be your first game and not suck.

[@LAKXx]

The problem i see is how these store assets are used, anyone having semi decent modeling skills could easily redesign each model morphing these premade asset into something more unique while having them blend together. This is less then a hour work per model to atleast make them appear unique, i suspect this is being done all the time without anyone noticing

[@XiLock_Alotx]

The Day Before was a good thing for gamers to witness. Bc we are all aware(well not all)of how shady these “companies” can be

[@Kovac_]

What exactly was wrong with the whole "Day Before" thing? Everybody got a refund, nobody was burnt by it. If Quinfall isn't what it's made out to be, you don't actually have to buy it, and even if you did pay for it, you could still get a refund. A scam would be you losing your money and not getting it back.

[@kaanarmutcu6740]

Yet there are still thousands of people defending the day before

[@Buggolious]

@@Kovac_ just the fact that "the day before" even exists is bad

[@Kovac_]

@@Buggolious Shitty games have existed forever, this is not a special case. If anything, Day Before was handled better, in the past you bite the bullet with a game purchase, and if it sucks, you're left with it. And negative examples are good for the industry. You do everything opposite to Day Before and you might have a good game at your hands.

[@speero]

Especially sketchy if purchases are made outside of steam. Yeah, sure, while you're at it, send some crypto to that bridge selling nigerian prince who just needs a few thousand dollars for the game to get finished.

[@No-One.321]

As an idie dev myself i will say again that using made assets doesnt matter, its how they are used. its the connecting stuff like skill trees, progression, enemies ais, etc that determine if the bought assets are just a flip or not.

[@Greg__K]

Exactly. It’s not easy to put things together and make them function. You’re either buying art off the store or hiring an artist to make assets. One route is much cheaper then the other.

[@ninochaosdrache3189]

@@Greg__K One route lowers the felt value of the game a lot though.

[@shark6350]

What's a good place to start getting into game dev?

[@Greg__K]

@@ninochaosdrache3189yeah, but if it’s a matter of being able to make the game or not, then are you saying don’t bother? The art is still made by someone. Games can be very expensive to develop, especially an MMO. This might be the only way they could try and pull it off.

[@Daniel-ii5mh]

Since the assets was bought from different place, with different texture and everything else, First, it will probably not going to match up from how one asset looks and another. And just add to the feel that there is nothing that stands out or unique about the game. Second, it most probably will be a hassle to configure with all the different code already exist within the "bought" asset. Especially for an massive open world MMO. Third, like what the others are saying, some of the "bought" asset is not on sale since 2015/2016, and this project has only started since 3 years ago on their website. So it all just add to the notion that it is probably a scam.

[@akiasukuma4758]

Now I understand why your channel is called force gaming, because the channel "Forces" fake games to expose themselves. Love to see it! Keep it up!

[@AnInsaneTaco]

Quinfall walk animations reminded me of the Day Before gameplay trailers. Which was a red flag for me.

[@SandTiger42]

Yeah, both of these games blipped on my scam radar. I think a lot of people just want them to be good, so hopium overrides any sense of common sense caution.

[@thecodeson99]

Its public services like these that help us stay informed on b.s not to hand money to.

[@MitchCyan]

I think we’re getting wiser to things that look too good to be true.

[@Kovac_]

What part of the game looked too good to be true to begin with? The footage looked like shit from the beginning, the assets being store bought changes absolutely nothing.

[@ArariaKAgelessTraveller]

​@@Kovac_people who don't know what asset flip is would assume all these are made by the studio

[@AlexSophiaAguilar]

Min 15:25 The reply of the company about addressing the players concerns on a Q&A session, was also purchased from a corporate dialog reply script shop.

[@Soldier-J7]

I work in Financial Crimes Prevention with a major bank and i can tell you we look at Turkey as a hot bed of scammers. Its on the high risk list of countries like iran and Afghanistan. The moment i saw it was a Turkish studio and heard about how small they are i became skeptical and even had a bet with my friends that it will be just another scam. Didnt expect to win this fast haha

[@Lenariet]

I don't want to give the wrong impressions, surely there are bad apples everywhere. But I saw a documentary a while ago according to which a lot of specific kinds of frauds in my own country, Germany, are commited from call-centers in Turkey. So I would be lying if I said I didn't add the fact that these devs were from Turkey to my list of red flags regarding this game.

[@dreadbull5039]

So in other words these guys are 100% intending to pull a Day Before scam

[@uuhamm]

Another important issue with asset store assets is performance. Store bought assets are some of the least optimized art assets out there. If they look good then you can be sure they will perform like garbage. The target audience is not a AAA game studio or anyone who knows what they're doing. The target audience are amateur unity devs. And an open world game is really not easy to optimize in unity. The amount of assets used here will be hundreds of GB of download size and will constantly be running into vram limits even on RTX 4090s... not to mention the number of draw calls we're likely looking at with so many mismatched assets. It would simply not be feasible to employ enough technical artists to optimize this garbage given the salary of qualified technical artists. They would be better off hiring their own artists to make the art to the technical specifications needed for the game to run at a playable framerate.

[@Switch72nd]

The Day Before part 2.

[@llamacebu216]

The ocean/boat kraken scene looks like they stole it from Black Desert

[@chucheeness7817]

This 'game' is amazing. It's like a movie made entirely of stock footage.

[@playablecharacter3871]

I appreciate the stuff you make Force, I started watching you in middle school and I appreciate how back then you didnt follow the trend of being edgy and swearing, you just showcased smite characters and games and I watched your whole playthrough of that ninja stage puzzle game, I forgot the name. Now ive gone to college, dropped out, picked up a drinking problem and kicked it for two years and youre still making some of the best content 😂

[@tinchi]

I have the feeling that we're going to see more of these "games" in the future. Good that the gaming community is not blind, so thanks for sharing this information.

[@MrPMAntunes]

Damn, they learned something from Day Before, trying to fight the unavoidable refunds

[@irkalla100]

Even their office is a store bought asset 🤣

[@stinkbanana2522]

AAHH! They're trying to bait me in with Archeage style sailing! HELP!!!

[@flamingburitto]

I know better than to do this now, BUT lets give them the benefit of the doubt. I am a game developer myself and currently working on a game with a small team, none of us are artists or animators, but we do know game mechanics, and what we want to do with these assets we have. And we are using those to make our game. So while i would usually say "its a scam dont buy it", i think after having this experience myself i might give them the benefit of the doubt. HOWEVER, i must also say that things *do* look dicey. Edit: While I still stand my above statement, DO NOT GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY, if they were doing it via steam it would've been fine but outside of steam for a steam key? Yeah no.

[@lordsofgaming2930]

who remembers when we had NeverWinter Nights and they gave us access to the tilesets and we built our own worlds on private servers to play our own stories?

[@guyincognito1406]

Good times

[@sayseriously]

Keep exposing these clowns, Force.

[@omegablast2002]

i mean if its so easy as this tuber saids, maybe you can make a game better?

[@kaanarmutcu6740]

Im a game developer. We make every asset ourselves. Thats why its the most earning mobile game ever.@@omegablast2002

[@sayseriously]

​@omegablast2002 you on the dev team snowflake? 😢

[@williamedwards4151]

Oh wow. I just gotta say though, that archer effect where you summon all those ghost archers, that looked cool. Even if its just a store asset, it's still pretty cool. Just sad they couldn't come up with something of their own.

[@Wisznuification]

Ahhh shit, here we go again

[@drbjr8223]

i can hear this comment.

[@Auchtahelweit]

This is reminding me of that kickstarter game, Day of Dragons, where the guy running it claimed he could code in his sleep but was only using assets that he claimed took 2 years and someone was able to put together a similar game in a day. Taught me a lesson about not backing anything like that anymore.

[@Acusumano25]

i honestly have no problem with small developing studios acting as the "big picture" entity by using smaller developer/animator's one-off creations that were consciously put on the marketplace, but that should be a selling point of the game with outright credit given to the original artists/dev's. like, what better credit to your work that an "official" game studio wanted to use your creations?

[@8bit_nacho825]

I don't agree. You purchase the asset to use it. You effectively pay for the right to own and use the asset, therefore credit isn't needed.

[@Alfheidhr]

Quinfall was on my wishlist as it seemed good and I wanted to give it a try, but thanks to you and Nuion, I'm glad I didn't make the mistake of buying it. Cheers.

[@danlaffin2013]

I wonder how hard it would be for AI to create a game now

[@MorbidEel]

Depends on your definition of a game.

[@Dirty_Davos]

Depends on your definition of AI. Procedural genaration already does this trick since the last 30 years.

[@Lenariet]

Depends on your definition of now.

[@leetaiming64]

Depends on your definition of create.

[@leetaiming64]

Depends on your definition of create.

[@SilverSentinel]

If I'm a programmer with no particular artistic skill but I have some interesting gameplay ideas and an engaging story to tell, why TF should my work be considered inferior or "problematic", as the kids like to say nowadays, for exclusively using premade graphical assets? Is the implication that I should be required to either spend years developing artistic skills that may never even become particularly great or that I should spend possibly tens of thousands of dollars to pay an artist to create all-original (or taking your earlier concession into account, even just mostly-original) assets for my MMO project? That's ridiculous. If using exclusively premade assets is such an issue for you personally, that's fine. But if the creator completes the game and the product os functional and engaging, I fail to see the purpose of throwing such a conniption over someone avoiding the headaches of hiring employees for a project that can be populated with assets at the click of a button.

[@Lenariet]

Right now they only seem to advertise assets though. What is it that they have uniquely designed that would be worth mentioning at the moment? Combining asset A + B? They are making bold claims as to what you are presumably gonna be able to do in the game but that's just words so far. All their current hype if you want to call it that is thanks to them showcasing rather little of own design.

[@Dirty_Davos]

sounds alot like the "why should i not be called an artist when i use AI art programs" argument

[@SilverSentinel]

@@Lenariet If you don't have programming, then all you have is art. Until you create the animatronics that go into it, the singing trout on the wall is purely cosmetic; it doesn't do anything but sit there. You want to see the creator's contribution to his game? It's everything that ISN'T the art. I know plenty of people who can sling a brush or flick a pencil, but there are far fewer qho can both design and then code a game. If the person isn't an artist, that is hardly going to take away from all the work s/he actually put into the project.

[@SilverSentinel]

@@Dirty_Davos Sounds a lot like someone can't read.

[@omegablast2002]

@@Lenariet i want to see you combine A + B....lets go...if you can do it so easy lets see some trailers for your up and coming release.....didnt think so...

[@BuriedInInsanity]

I still don't get what the issue is with buying assets... they are there to buy them and use them so the actual devs either can work faster OR they don't even have modelers so they can make a game at all, lol. If the game comes out to be bad, well okay, but even if the game is 100% assets there's still work behind it believe it or not and assets just help indie devs make a game faster. I hate the term asset flip since it's implying that they bought a bunch of assets, and it's done which is not the case or just the case if you get a complete template with everything and just put some assets in which is very rare. The game might be another scam, but the terms' asset flips or " made with 100% bought assets" hurt the actual devs working on a game and cant hire a modeling team or is a very small team and are relying on.

[@RLHvanDijk]

I am sure it's not about buying assets, but what you do with it. This from the get go looks lazy. It looks barren, nothing in it looks good at all. I had the same with TDB, even the "gameplay" they showed didn't look good. If this has been in development for 3 years, what the hell have they been doing? For TDB was even worse, they worked that long on it, and had basically nothing to show for (yeah they said they started over again at some point, but i never believed that). Altho this game seems to have more to it then TDB had, it still doesn't look good.

[@kaanarmutcu6740]

Its the quality. If your whole game is made from bought assets. Its gonna look shit. And shows that you have 0 idea about how to make a game

[@Daniel-ii5mh]

Since the assets was bought from different place, with different texture and everything else, First, it will probably not going to match up from how one asset looks and another. And just add to the feel that there is nothing that stands out or unique about the game. Second, it most probably will be a hassle to configure with all the different code already exist within the "bought" asset. Especially for an massive open world MMO. Third, like what the others are saying, some of the "bought" asset is not on sale since 2015/2016, and this project is only started since 3 years ago on their website. So it all just add to the notion that it is probably a scam.

[@JustMe99999]

I wouldn't be surprised if they were using Atavism as well (MMO system for Unity).... nothing wrong with that, but it tells me there probably isn't a lot of "development" going on here.

[@Tonedriver]

Realistically, I can see other nations' viewpoints of how to develop games like this being without enough education or understanding of industry standards, to engage just enough to have this kind of thing be an outcome. It's possible that these devs' thoughts were genuinely aligned in a positive stance, that it is perhaps often others blitz the use of pre-made assets, and that overall it's accomplishment enough to just simply have things be functional in-game, by well-made systems and whatnot.

[@Washinyot]

ByNoGame doesn't sponsor people to play the game, they pretty much sponsor almost every Turkish streamer because streamers can set a donation link using ByNoGame to get donations on stream. You might ask why the hell would they do that instead of using PayPal? Well... Because PayPal is banned in Turkey. So people are kinda forced to use BNG to get donations, just because they have BNG banner somewhere on their stream doesn't make them sponsored to play the mmo

[@Krippticbdf]

Yeah people don't understand that. Nuion even admitted to this in the quinfall discord.

[@nortyfiner]

14:45 That kind of vague non-statement just screams, "We are trying desperately to figure out how to keep from being sued or going to jail for fraud."

[@ethaniel86]

12:06 it looks like The Day Before announcement design..am i wrong?

[@Zippsterman]

Just saying, that phantom archer volley spell at 1:00 is actually pretty cool. ...and that's what I get for commenting before finishing the video. Still pretty cool

[@heyitsme926]

I just don't care if they buy assets or whatever in the end of the day I only care about how the game plays out if it's good people will play if it's not then they will not play

[@TegridyMadeGames]

I'm an indie dev, I dont think using asset models and effects is a bad thing. You need them to save time. The problem is within the development itself. Programming makes a game playable and fun. NOT visuals.

[@whanethewhip]

I'd like to point out that someone with a very low budget coding from his house is likely to use a fake studio cover. It doesn't mean the game is fake. But at this point it is *likely* fake but time will tell. I for one don't "back" mmo's anymore because its assuming the risk so that someone ELSE can assume a profit. Hell, these days I won't even pay for an MMO that won't let me try it in some capacity first. Oh and kudos to you for linking to Nuion's content... I hate it when people make use of the content provided for by others and then don't even give them credit.

[@exilestudios9546]

so i need to ask what is the point of selling assets that are supposed to make game development easier if its so taboo to use them?

[@Clawstorm]

the crazy thing about the office photo is you can use UE5 to make a photorealistic office to pass off as an original image... and they still used photoshop as "game devs"

[@Ki_Late]

btw most if not all of these assets you can pirate from various websites

[@ImSquiggs]

The entire game being purchased assets means nothing. This game is bad but the reasons you give are bogus. The issue is the lack of gameplay behind the assets, the fact that the gameplay is just screenshots of character models, and that would be an issue whether or not the assets were hand made.

[@smashbuttongamesadmin1896]

What exactly are you expecting from this developer? You say don't show us "All store bought assets", if Art is purchased in store, then you want to see their code? lmao, or do you want to see a greybox level? Like, I hear the concern, but what are you expecting?? Clearly they are saving money by not using bespoke 3D Models, UI, VFX, Levels, and more than likely Audio. So why hold them ransom on providing "Real" content when you already know everything visual and audio is pre-made assets. I run a studio and the funniest thing is, we provide game development services for Indie's/Studios, and we make our clients all the assets they want, or stitch together their store bought assets, or customize the asset to function how they want. But when we make our own games, we use store bought assets (for the most part) in order to provide a polished Demo to publishers, LMAO, our funding requirements include art development costs to cover the modification of the assets or creation of new assets during production. But, pre-production, to get an audience, ppl wanna see shiny graphics in order to consider a game worthwhile supporting. Unfortunately, streamers who control the narrative want to roadblock development by conditioning the end user into believing an asset flip is more than likely going to flop. In reality, if a game consists of 40% Art, 60% gameplay code... the developer flipping assets is going to have much more time to focus on coding good gameplay, still nothing in comparison to AAA's with X million million budgets, and 100's of underpaid developers, grinding day and night for peanuts until they are disposed of... LMAO

[@Greiwulf]

JustSmoki UNCUT did an interesting video about the person behind the company aswell

[@Dradeeus]

If you buy a fully-dressed character from an asset store, it's not even approaching the game from the idea that the character's just a body to place replaceable clothes and armor on.

[@PineappleZach666]

Something that this shows me is how talented people are. A lot of these packs are incredible.

[@mythos4]

Whoa whoa….. wait a minute. My vcoins will not accumulate interest?!? What kind of fake currency is this.

[@Tyrannyofman]

Keep in mind everybody; buying assets from the marketplace and actually piecing it all together and having it work right it’s waaaaaaaayyyyy more involved then you all my know/think. You still have to know how to program/code to make it actually function.

[@aleksandardjorjdevic3452]

So ?

[@Dirty_Davos]

"You still have to know how to program/code to make it actually function." yup, thats the problem we have xD

[@Tyrannyofman]

@@aleksandardjorjdevic3452I’m just saying people shouldn’t just dismiss a game if they use marketplace assets. It “could” still be a good game. Only thing I don’t like is if the devs act as if it’s not using purchased assets. Just be upfront.

[@Tyrannyofman]

@@Dirty_Davosyea if it isn’t working well and all buggy etc etc then by all means, hate on! 😂

[@omegablast2002]

fucking THANK YOU!!!!! these people think because it contains some purchased assets that they immedately slap themselves together...the game can be made of 100% pure assets from MP and if its amazing, guess what...its amazing...lets keep in mind "goat simulator" is on its 3rd version....its was all store bought assets..."get over it" is store bought assets slightly modified in blender....where the assets came from shouldnt matter....if the game is good/fun/entertaining/intriguing it should be given a fair chance.

[@STRIDER_503]

What's even funnier, is that Kayra Online's UI is a 1:1 copy of CABAL Online. Buff, chat, skill hotbars, top-left player HP/MP display, enemy lock-on HP/MP display... all look exactly the same! I started playing CABAL Online when I was 17 and I played it for 5 years straight, there's no way I'm mistakening that nostalgic UI for another game.

[@NeonXXP]

I think there is a market for a community driven game that is openly asset store based. A game where asset creators are supported and spotlighted. Where the community gets to choose the direction of the game though competitions and events. I don't think Quinfall is that game though.

[@Krycius]

There is supposed to be a closed beta coming up as early as July 10th. Any chance you got in it? I'll be in if I manage the time but would love to see your review from it regardless of whether or not I manage to get some time in it.

[@WellDoneOnTheInternetEverybody]

The office picture is the epitome of them trying to fake it till you make it

[@BigB3n0r]

As always - great piece! Congratulations on breaking through the 1M subs!!

[@jamescandle5786]

crazy thing is even if they spent twice that amount... around 5,000 dollars they will probably make it back (1,000 times more) with gullible buyers or pre-purchase package or something. crazy how people still buy stuff not yet implemented

[@omegablast2002]

Even if they bought 100% of the VISUALS... There is still a ton of people working on CODE... Models don't come with code

[@givls9326]

well, so many videos that said its fake, its actually real and looks promising

[@cloudcity4194]

I haven't gotten more than 1 minute into this and all the footage is riddled with assets slapped together.

[@John-eh6jg]

Whoever Nuion is . Dude is a boss for figuring all of this out . And you for reporting it to us all . Thanks to both of you gents. For saving us time /money and frustration

[@ProxCQ]

16:00 That means "we got caught, let's change things up and take advantage of the exposure to make the most money we can before everything goes downhill."

[@B_Cojones]

After the day before, it did occur to me; when my mum owned a shop she'd go to trade shows etc and actually look at things and decide if she wanted to sell them- she'd assess things before placing them in her shop - you know cos if she sold shit that was bad that reflects on her, she gave a fuck. There has to be onus on steam to evaluate crap like this before they allow it in they're 'shop'. Surely day before cost steam in some way, but it seems they rake in enough they're like 'meh'. Morally though, they don't seem to give a flip- sells it sells.

[@denisvarga2794]

Cant wait to watch Josh Strife Hayes video on it, gonna be next Dreamworld XD

[@xezzee]

When making a game requires anywhere from 1 to 20 years to make but people say "it normally takes 5 to 7 years" Fallout 76 rumored to be in development 3 years. Anthem rumored to be in development hell 5 years and had 2 years development to release. Star Citizen been in development past 14 or so years and still going strong. Baldur's Gate 3 took 6 years to make. Game of the Year. Wreckfest took 6 years to make. No Man's Sky took 5 years to make but they had to take another 5 years to fix the game. Cubeworld took 2 years to release alpha and 6 more years to release which was so bad that the dev is making Omega version. Current time in development 13 years. Path of Exile took 3 years to release and has been improving ever since. Dauntless took 3 years to release and has been improving ever since. We have games that were shitty released in few years. We have game of the year games release in six years. We have games that have taken more than 10 years in development. if we were to add Path of Exile which is life service we could argue it is never ending if you want. Tough I would say Path of Exile should be looked when Act's 5 trough 10 were released 2017 and started 2010 as the development time. That would make it 7 years. At that point they had pretty much completed all things they needed to succeed. They constantly improve the game but I think that was the biggest chance they made for the game. My point is that some games released in 5 to 7 year actually needed 7 to 15 years in development. Some of the games take several years as "live service" to do that "Releas now fix it later."