Forcing 'Rustproof' Steels to Rust?

[@1968gadgetyo]

Some stuff about Black rust. Black Rust Iron (II)oxide - Fe3O4 (limited oxygen) Rust from Iron (III) oxides with limited oxygen and low moisture results in black rust. Black rust can be visually identified as a thin, black film which is the result of oxidation in a low oxygen environment. Black rust has an appearance of almost a black stain. Most likely the areas exhibiting the black rust had something covering them, which prevented oxygen from reaching the surface. This type of rust is a more stable rust layer that does not propagate as rapidly as other rust forms.

[@frederickj.7136]

Interesting -- So does this make for a 'desireable' sort of forced patina, as an option, or not?

[@drysori]

It actually forms a passivation layer that prevents further corrosion like a black oxide coating

[@fxrober]

This is one way that gun steels were colored back in the day...the process is even called "rust bluing." There's more to it in time, repetitions, polishing, etc., but can be beautiful.

[@frederickj.7136]

Thanks, guys, for the additional information.

[@desertrainfrog1691]

The outer layer of a patina is actually called "magnetite" I believe and then red, deep rust is known as hematite.

[@49giants3]

The work you do is amazing Pete. It really helps a lot of people in deciding what steel to buy.

[@ArikGST]

Interesting that 80CrV2 formed a Patina instead of actually like brown rust. M390 performed better than I would have imagined, as did !4116 Krupp! on the FinnHawk.

[@BradGryphonn]

I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking of testing one of my Carbon steel knives to see if I can get that Black patina.

[@fxrober]

This is one way that gun steels were colored back in the day...the process is even called "rust bluing." There's more to it in time, repetitions, polishing, etc., but can be beautiful.

[@tonycanniffe2360]

🙏 Pete. You continue to impress with your bro science And willingness to cop financial losses through this testing. Makes me think a forced patina would look good on the Terava.

[@johanesgo8096]

thank you very much !!! I can always count on you ... a month ago I bought teravajakariouko 140 carbon ... Since this is my first carbon knife, I didn't know what to expect. The knife didn't rust I started to suspect that they sent me a stainless version by mistake ... very unusual steel behavior ... 80crv2 is a really great steel

[@rafaelreig8246]

Awesome work!!!! I wish there was an S35VN control knife too. Lots of knives with that steel

[@marrenmiller]

The rust on the vanax could be from steel particles left on it from machining. Would be interesting to see if it does it again after the first time.

[@mgrsdgfsdafsdgrsdgfsdg6980]

IF YOU DONT PUT, SLEEPLESS CITY TRENO IN YOUR NEXT VIDEO, IM GOING TO BEAT MYSELF WITH JUMPER CABLES.

[@MikeUman]

Please make a video when you do. :)

[@DanRksm]

Impressed with that 80crv2 didn’t seem to rust rust or pit out just that black patina. Awesome vid as always. Thank you for what you do.

[@chase6428]

The aussieness of the narration and feel of the videos makes them that much better.

[@Hectorszenshopedc]

omg salty food with that knife is a death wish... YOU ARE SAVING LIFES... AMEN MATE

[@SgtKong]

I'm looking forward to hopefully adding a piece of Vanax to my collection in the near future

[@miguellodeiro9671]

Thanks for the effort man! Very appreciated. Good comparison.

[@rhinooningo2865]

The black color on the carbon steel is FeO (and Fe2+ oxide), which is the same thing that happens with blueing on firearms and what people often call a "patina" on carbon steels. The orange rust if Fe2O3 (Fe3+ oxide). FeO actually offers some amount of resistance to the formation of Fe2O3 over the bare metal, which is why blueing is done (in addition to the cosmetics).

[@CedricAda]

yeah it actually does look like a conventional forced patina. Very cool

[@BradGryphonn]

2:05 I nearly snorted my beer!

[@pinkbrisingr78]

Awesome! Thanks for your efforts. Wow, M390 over lc200 concerning that h2o discoloration. Good stuff Pete!

[@dannydilling7855]

You should try aeb-l. I have a knife that i use in the kitchen and it has been used and abused, I have left onions on it all night and not a spec of rust or patina. No matter what I do it won't rust.

[@SuperSteelSteve]

Danny Dilling really? Im a pro chef and have left a AEBL knife over night with some moisture(water) from a wet towel and it rusted on me.

[@lindboknifeandtool]

SuperSteel Steve yours is probably leagues harder

[@AdvancedKnifeBro]

Didn't realize M390 was that resistant. Also I need to buy some WD40.

[@Grant_Gold]

How resistant was it

[@MaxMustermann-vy7ur]

@@Grant_Gold watch the video

[@bpfohio]

I'd be interested in a head to head with zfinit and the Spydiechef in corrosion testing

[@mattg6136]

Thanks. Very intersting. ATB. Truely though, your testing, logical thoughts and observations personally I consider valuable. Once again thanks for your work/passion. Love it. Good on you. Take your time uploading your vids and you'll enjoy/savour it more and hopefully the subscrider expectations won't feel like a burden as I/we really appreciate the time, effort, thought and work you dedicate sharing your love of knife steels with us. We benifit as much as you from your efforts so don't over do it. It all should be fun for both us and you. Thanks Pete. On my hols in Mallorca at the mo. And had a few so really enjoyed watching this and forgot what I wad goin tob say blah. Thanks

[@dfailsthemost]

A good argument in favor of a mirror polished edge on these nitrogen steels. It seems that surface finish might be the difference between some rust and no rust.

[@mikelikesknives428]

Great test. Really interesting results. You can't always guess what is going to happen. I love it.

[@namhod]

Love the tea kettle.

[@littlewoody5539]

Pete your a madman

[@peter-zs4ml]

Perhaps you have done so, but it would be good to degrease (rubbing alcohol) each knife, just to eliminate having oily surface to prevent corrosion. Great video as always.

[@miloszivkovic6118]

I rly dont understand, if passivation is done, and i mean deep hot bluing, how can passive layer be oxidized again even in most harsh environment ?! Only logical explanation water can not penetrate so oxygen can enter in small unoxidized pores , but there must be a way of some gas bluingor something so the oxidation is fully complete and bad rust can't penetrate

[@markanthonystringfellow3923]

Great Work Pete!!!

[@danielclemens4701]

I often see where logos on a blade will show rust. There is often contamination from the creation of those etchings.

[@matmin6221]

Lots of information abouy knife.. I love your channel.. Keep it up..

[@bp-hx9ts]

so vanex is basically better then lc200n in every way

[@touchMelilbro]

bp69 yeah but more than twice as expensive

[@CedricAda]

one of the more expensive steels for sure

[@explorerextraordinaire5472]

This whole video is just madness! i like it so much, you could even say that i Love it!

[@bradleyh8044]

Looks like you just put a patina on the carbon steel, which is interesting. Patina is not "bad rust", and would protect your blade from future corrosion to an extent. If you ask me, it fared better than the Cold Steel.

[@Iamthedudeman00]

You should have put some 316 marine grade stainless steel in the test just to see what happens too, but good video man you are the best knife KZbin I have seen, even better than me!

[@edwardyork4321]

GREAT music as ALWAYS THANKS Pete

[@jaylane82]

Unexpected resluts but very cool and great to see and know. Keep up the exception work bro. 👍😎👍

[@adamwaldorf3944]

80crv2 has copper in it, that's why the black color :] 7:23

[@petergalione9704]

“Salty solution” 😜

[@kerryrwac]

So , Pete , what's that metal box thing in the background ? We don't have them in Canada lol

[@lordtartarsauceb8348]

Why was the lc200n knife missing at the end

[@mmllrjr]

how did you stir so fast and not splash????

[@howardgreen9718]

I’ve been married over 20 years and I have to ask how did you get your wife to let you use the drinking glasses for your project

[@anthonyp7051]

Kinda surprised those held up that well

[@bennythebossstk209]

Original idea Cedric. Good sh** awsome content great vid thanx. Keep up the great ideas and great vids.

[@marccohen5579]

Why no MagnaCut in your test?

[@7Belial7]

Hej man, you know which vanax superclean it is? If I recol there are few variants. Uddeholms does really high quality steels....and they have such a broad selection; great company. And kudos to you with those videos.

[@CedricAda]

Salival Pine its the new one apparantly, I touch on it in my new video. They’ve stopped making the 35 and 75 and now just do this one

[@7Belial7]

Seems like an incredible good steel, I'm most impressed by the similar results with the d3v..... would love to see an hardcore destrution test with d3v, this vanax, and INFI!! :)

[@SPYROSMANTZAKOS]

I remember from your spydiechef corrosion testing you didn't have any discoloration in the water nor any stains in the blade. How come that this zfinit performed worse than vanax; 🤔 Could be a chance of blade contamination; or poor heat treatment;

[@OTG414]

There is a problem with your methodology. Adding a ton of salt to your solution actually decreases the rate of corrosion by creating a layer of FeOOH (Iron 3 oxide-hydroxide). That’s the black patina that formed on the carbon steel. It forms a barrier layer that inhibits further oxidation by preventing oxygen from reaching the un-oxidized metal. I think if try your experiment with tap water or actual sea water and I think your results will be different.

[@333turdferguson]

Was the water too salty? Not sure how the chemistry actually works. I wonder if tap water might cause red rust on the 80crv2.

[@AYellowPepper]

By all laws of science, what youz are doing IS SCIENCE! You have a hypothisis you want to test; "That this steel rust very little", you establish parameters and controlls. You made the experiment such that people can repeat it. and its all along the scientific method! The difference between science and fun is if you record your findings or not!

[@theavidpicker2721]

Pete, do you think that Spyderco's LC200N would be a better performer over the Z-Finit?

[@CedricAda]

they seem roughly equivalent. The Chef with a mirror polish at 16° cut a little longer than the Z finit at 17° but thats probably more due to the angle. Both steels are at 60hrc so there shouldnt be tooooo much deviation!

[@theavidpicker2721]

Are they exactly the same metallurgy?

[@CedricAda]

according to the literature, yes, just a branding thing

[@CedricAda]

zknives.com/knives/steels/lc200n.shtml

[@theavidpicker2721]

Thanks Pete!

[@Admiralcharlie]

Just cause it’s home experiments doesn’t mean it isn’t science

[@BradGryphonn]

8:55 A random stab in the dark...If the logo was electro-chemical etched and not laser etched, that rust ring may have been a ground (edit: as in electrical earth) contact point for the etching machine. Now I've watched the whole video, disregard my comment/s. :oD

[@Wall_enjoyer]

I was literaly just looking at you wanting a new video, also are you going to the Sydney knife show?

[@CedricAda]

That Guy nah, I’m not convention kinda guy, not a fan of crowds!

[@MrFomhor]

Could you please do a similar test with "440C" (or 9Cr18MoV) and 14C28N?

[@csquared4538]

This is science. Science isn't something special and unreachable! It's throwing shit in salt to see what salty turd comes out the other end!

[@CompanerosCacao]

Nice job...I would have thought lc200n would have done better

[@evananderson1753]

Hello Mr Pete / nice KZbin fellow. I was wondering if you could possibly consider taking a look at arthos knives. I'd love to get your take on them.

[@mrq1701]

What knives are the control knives? I want one!

[@FLUBBY1013]

where to buy that shannon vanax and z finit?

[@davidpyper82]

Forcing them is mean

[@MikeUman]

So, you're going for Great Salt Lake salty, or, Dead Sea salty? That's pretty damned salty.

[@hooliganAvail]

I work as a mover in Florida. I'm constantly soaked from sweat or rain. I was wondering could you recommend a steel for me. I need the knife to stay sharp for awhile until i can afford a kme or another type of angle sharpener. Thanks and keep the vids coming.

[@gretchenogelthorpe5790]

hooligan5769 Avail I highly recommend the Spyderco Caribbean.

[@hooliganAvail]

Gretchen Ogelthorpe thank you that's what I was looking at. The only negative for me is the size. I Think the native 5 is coming out in lcn. What is your opinion on s110v? S 30v held up for awhile .

[@gretchenogelthorpe5790]

S110v is hard to sharpen and unfortunately has quite a few reports of cracking. So I personally would stay away from even though it does have awesome stain resistance. S30v would be totally fine. I too live in a humid climate and s30v has performed well for me. I love my Caribbean blade, however. I think it is one of Spyderco's best efforts as of recent.

[@rafaelreig8246]

Hey neighbor! I work Ocean Rescue in South Beach. Go for M390. I haven’t had a problem with any of my knives in M390 or 20CV. Lots of choices in sizes and blade styles.

[@hooliganAvail]

Gretchen Ogelthorpe thanks

[@jtscustomcutlery317]

Can someone please explain to me why my Benchmade contego In M390 has rust spots on it from just cutting up apples? Should I send it to Benchmade? I’m baffled 😕

[@CedricAda]

apples are fairly acidic, and quite good at building patina on blades. I had the contego in M4, a non stainless steel, wasnt aware they made it in m390 also. I would expect it hold stainlessness a little better than thay though! Could be the finish - is it smooth and satin or more of a cloudy stonewash type?

[@Malegole]

Love making me some orange floaters 💩

[@MikeUman]

Might wanna cut back on the Cheetos. XD

[@jacobwhite953]

Hahahahaha!!😂

[@CleanRunShooting]

I can’t believe 420HC was the best.

[@jakewolf079]

Considering that 80CrV2 is a carbon steel I'd say it's the most impressive out of the five, I mean come on there's not even a single rust spot on the blade, how is that not impressive for a carbon steel? 4116 is just disappointing though, I always thought it's a cheap, easy to sharpen super rust proof steel. Also doesn't putting knives like that hurt the tip? Why not put some soft stuff at the bottom of the glass?

[@CedricAda]

i placed em pretty gently, so I wasnt too worried. And yeah, pretty impressive on the 80crv2 really!

[@mforrest1508]

Too bad you didn’t save the formula for the solution, could try other steels on day if you so felt the need.

[@danielclemens4701]

Was Vanax more difficult to sharpen than Lc200n.

[@CedricAda]

i honestly couldnt tell much difference

[@danielclemens4701]

Thank you for your efforts. I’ve learned a lot from you videos.

[@perry2768]

Plus mirror polish, - rust....

[@nicktohzyu]

the ocean is about 3% salt, while your solution was likely less than that

[@CedricAda]

that was at least 50 grams in that litre, so 5% at least!

[@Hectorszenshopedc]

Salty fellow, hehehe😂

[@Hectorszenshopedc]

dead sea salty lab mate....

[@BornIn1500]

For maximum salt, one should use the tears of Hillary voters.

[@edwardyork4321]

Almost a year later and we are still getting DUMB election references 💩💩

[@BornIn1500]

Edward York Yea tell that to CNN, MSNBC, HuffPost, and a ton of other liberal activist media orgs.

[@edwardyork4321]

YEAH BOY 👍

[@BornIn1500]

Frederick J. ... Huffington Post wrote an article titled "A Violent Response To Trump Is As Logical As Any". And it's still up. You're right, I shouldn't have called them liberal activists. They are DOMESTIC TERRORISTS. Further CNN has blatantly edited footage of Trump and manufactured fake stories with them to create outrage with their sheep. Remember Trump feeding Koi with Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe? Just do a simple search for evidence. And then you realize that if they're willing to completely fabricate a story about fish to make a negative story about Trump, they're doing it about absolutely everything. It cannot be denied. Fake news isn't just a joke. It's a disturbing reality.

[@frederickj.7136]

I reconsidered quickly leaving anything here which looks like hijacking Pete's thread, even though nothing in this whole sub-thread is about knives. That's the whole story about the deletion. But I guess you got the message... in a manner of speaking. I wish I knew of a way to save such little masterpieces ;-) from oblivion -- browsing a Google owned site with competitor Amazon's tablet is just a nightmare of disfunction. Coincidence? Er, you maybe don't need to be a conspiracy enthusiast type to 'read' this circumstance... Don't have time now to read your post in response -- maybe later. But I can already see it's the product of a deranged intellect.

[@ScottyBennitone]

interdasting...

[@grumpyoldwizard]

I think your going to drive up the price of the Shannon knives... :(

[@masalpert]

Pete, stop calling this "not science" that's unfair to you. Check the Wikipedia entry on the definition of science. Sure it has a lot of qualifiers, but in general you could argue that you meet enough of those for the level of precision required by your conclusions, and your science is no less rigorous than early scientists, and your results are very reproducible.

[@jamesiliffe8354]

Haha science ..... yeah sure