Ford F-150 5.4L 3v P0021 P0022 Over Retarded Timing Codes After a Complete Timing Job: But Why?

[@wtfman5313]

That sir was a repair a majority of Techs probably would not have made. Only those who have thorough knowledge of the engine would even think to look at that very small detail. Well done and impressive indeed!!

[@grantdubridge7995]

I think he even came across the answer by accident. He took out the bolt to look into the Fazer and had to buy a new bolt to put back in. Then noticed the old bolt had no washer.

[@cheapers1952]

I wish I had a purpose in life after 51 years of working in the automotive industry lol Brian you do a fantastic job of explaining everything and your patience is that of a saint

[@rays7437]

51 years?! You must have a lot of patience yourself

[@tduncan55]

Absolutely no doubt this guy should be teaching instead of working on them

[@markglover4088]

This video highlighted the importance of the seal between the phaser bolt and the phaser seat. I had been chasing this problem for almost 4 years now and just assumed it was low oil pressure since it was the passenger side bank. When I got the truck I did a complete timing job, followed Brian's very helpful videos. After a few minutes after initial start up and smooth idle, the motor jerked and then ran rough. In the trouble shooting process I thought it might be a bad phaser, so I put the ford one back in.. turns out the timing chain guide broke amd it skipped a couple links. Re did the timing and still this same issue. I then compared the aftermarket phaser bolt length after watching the video to the one that came with the new cloyes phaser and sure enough the amazon bolts were a tad shorter in length between the underside of the bolt head to the phaser washer. Replaced the bolt and phaser (since it was an old oem unit) yesterday and problem solved, runs smooth finally and the codes all cleared on their own!

[@victoralarcon8545]

A real mechanic that knows how to solve real problems not just a parts changer I commend this guy for his professional attitude

[@murphymmc]

That's a thousand dollar piece of information, great catch. Surprised that it wasn't in the service data but if the factory puts those washers on 999 times out of 1000, somebody will have to get the missed one and then post the info. Looks like you're that guy on this one.

[@oby-1607]

I believe this shows how incredibly tight the tolerances are in these engines and how sensitive they are to any improper assembly. I finally did my timing job on my 5.4 a couple of months ago and can't remember the washers. They must be there as it is running fine. I have to add that Brian is the reason I had the confidence to take on that work to keep my 5.4 running good. It seemed daunting at first but with his guidance it just seemed to get easier and easier to complete. Thank you Brian.

[@georgeeno_2815]

Im currently doing mine. Stuck on removing the 6 rollers prior to removing all timing components but the middle ones seem to not want to come out with the tool.

[@r.weaver3769]

I like seeing channels that actually diagnose and not just replace the engine like some of the other popular channels do. Seems "Narrow is the path" doesn't just apply to ones faith.

[@jefferythayer6103]

I actually found, more peace of mind, going with a " brand new ", 'short block', from ford,( and not rebuilt ) at 349,000 miles.

[@r.weaver3769]

@@jefferythayer6103 At that mileage, I would agree. I was referring to Trucks under 150k miles knowing a well maintained 5.4 will do double that, especially if it's the original owner. One clown I refer to even suggests if you get 100k on the truck prepare to throw it away. he wants $10k plus labor to do you a favor.

[@lelandcarlson1668]

Amazing how a little detail like that washer can make such a big difference. Well done!

[@BubbaM-xv8oc]

I've been working on my friends 2010 f150 about a year now did everything that you explained this owner did in this video to his truck pretty much the whole top end and I just seen this video today so I switched out the phaser bolts and sure enough it fixed the problem thank you makuloco you are a good inspiration and motivator! 😀 From Los Banos CA we thank you!.

[@mikeybhoutex]

Just goes to show that no manufacturer is immune from making mistakes, even Ford. Check and re-check, but still... unless you *know* how that bolt is supposed to be and why, easily missed. Wow. For want of a horseshoe nail, eh? You're the best, Brian! Once again, lemme shout out you for giving me the knowledge (and frankly strength) to tackle my 4.6L 3v timing! My car still lives because of your wonderful 4 parter on that!

[@dadgarage7966]

So true. Ford is the gold standard for design, engineering and workmanship.

[@kellismith4329]

Wow, I bet the owner if that truck is truly grateful to you - very good work !

[@jacobkirby5889]

This is what makes a mechanic though! Figuring out what caused the failure. Learning about something you have already mastered, as he has with this particular engine. Well done! All your videos are very informative and easy to follow. Thank you for the time you put into helping people! You're a hero. I mean that, truly. You're saving people thousands of dollars by education. You're amazing, sir. You should know that.

[@garymcmullin2292]

another "atta boy!" to you for splendid diagnostic work. Vehicles are complex enough and difficult to repair, we don't need the added burden of manufactured replacement parts being out of spec. Several comments that it is the wrong bolt due to the knurled area running down to the shoulder with no room for the washer. I believe that is because the washer has to be installed first, then the knurled area is completed, the installed washer would be a necessary spacing of the bolt assembly for that knurling process. But it is puzzling that a bolt could miss the washer install. There is an awful lot of bad out of spec parts showing up these days, many videos addressing this problem.

[@FordTechMakuloco]

Exactly!

[@truthsmiles]

Man, I never would have noticed that missing washer. Nice work!

[@junior3402]

I just bought a truck and found out after the fact that the timing was off. I took it in to have a timing job. When the tech got in there he tells me the truck had a timing job fairly recently with after- market parts and that it must’ve been Mis-timed. He went ahead and re-did timing with parts as recommended by Makuloko at my request. Now I’m wondering if the issue wasn’t something like this. Very interesting. This channel has been a HUGE help since I purchased my truck!

[@Adam-ej9mu]

Dude pretty sure if theFord TechMakuloco says something different than the ford techs or any mechanic around my area, I argue until my face, turns blue that the wrong that’s not how it should be. Pretty sure if ford techMakuloco told me I had to stick a finger up my ass and keep it there while I torqued my cam phasers 90 is degrees over then id probably watch it twice just to make sure he didn’t say to have two fingers in my ass hahahaha.

[@paulfiebke3909]

That's hard to believe one washer could do that. Keep up the good work

[@lanceripplinger8352]

Your attention to detail is very good! Amazing a washer that cost mere cents, fixed the problem!

[@marshallbrooksjr.9088]

What is surprising is the man has 'done quite a few of these' did not observe the lack of a critical washer on the bolt that attaches to the cam phaser. Yes, anyone can overlook the observation you made, however, when one performs a timing chain replacement, Every detail must be carefully paid attention to. Your explanation of the oil flow through the various ports of the bolt and the phasor was immensely important. Thank you, sir.

[@markk3652]

These are the videos that are worth more than gold. Now, everyone that has a timing job to do and has watched this, can save themselves the frustration of knowing they did the job correctly and having an issue such as this. Brian, you are a gift to us all! P.s. any time to tear down that transfer case you changed out for me? I'm waiting for the autopsy, I have a theory about it.

[@Motorcycledad160]

Man I wish we had more smart mechanics like you. Keep it up and please continue to pass along your knowledge to the young generation!

[@krusejonathan01]

King of the 3V. A lot of these F-150’s, Expeditions, Navigators can be had relatively inexpensive. After a full timing job these can go another 100k with regular maintenance, clean oil especially. A good option for a vehicle for yourself or your family. Obviously putting in all this mechanical work won’t increase resale enough to make it viable for a flip unless the vehicle can be initially purchased for next to nothing.

[@DerrickJohnson-be3xz]

More than that!😊

[@lyleswavel320]

Many are going 250,000 to 325,000 miles on all original 5.4 triton 3v engine parts, keep it maintained

[@winstonrocco1981]

I have 306,000 on a 06 f 150

[@stephenmoxley3004]

Yet another great diagnostic video, Brian. It's always a necessity to check all replacement parts. Keep up the great work.

[@bddfc1968]

And that sir is why I came to you for my full timing job and oil pump and exhaust manifold leak and oil pan replacement job on my 2009 5.4 3v😎 p.s. and I've been a semi truck mechanic since 1986 😂

[@squangan]

Hi, how many miles were on your ‘09 when you had that work done? My original owner ‘09 was starting to develop a slight tap but now runs quiet as new again after I replaced the VCT solenoids last fall. The motor still looked like new inside when I had the valve covers off for the job so I guess proper oil change intervals all these years have paid off.

[@bddfc1968]

@squangan my Ole girl had 230,000 when timing set was done last July and now has right about 250,000 and I'm still getting around 14-16 city and 18-21 hwy , change my oil 5w30 every 3--4,000 miles , it's my money I'll cry if I want too,, I also purchased it used just 4 years ago and was getting taping on start-up and deceleration chain rattle and noticed peices of chain guides in the oil pan with bore scope, BUT all is good now .

[@squangan]

@@bddfc1968 I’ve run 5-20 in it since new as it was strictly dealer maintained until 2017 and it’s probably only hit 5,000 between changes once on a long road trip, mostly it’s been 3-3,500 intervals. It also only has low miles at 68,000 as it’s always been my 2nd or 3rd vehicle, used only when I need a truck. At this point I think it may last almost indefinitely with continued proper care.

[@bddfc1968]

@squangan yes sir should be fine for years to come, I also noticed that when timing job was done it wasn't that it had worn much as one would think the plastic guides would be but instead so brittle from age and heat cycles from the engine temp and actually just started breaking into bits ..

[@squangan]

@@bddfc1968 That’s interesting to know about them becoming brittle as compared to wearing. I’ll definitely keep it in mind.

[@mikebryan9744]

Just a follow up, my Powertrain Products replacement engine that refused to run right, had silicone all in the pan and oiling system, clogged up vcts, they sent me another engine, it runs perfect. Lots of hard work, but our 2012 King Ranch was too nice to not fix and keep. Bank 1 chain adjuster would not keep chain tight, eventually leading to po300 and po305. I finally had enough, so kudos to them for making it good. These engines are assembled in Mexico, and come out of ACT warehouses all around the country. Powertrain assured me that the replacement had just come off the spinitron and was good. Now, if I can just get them to pick up the core! Thanks for your videos, phaser bolt without a washer? Who would have thought.

[@josephlundy3534]

Great video ! reminding us all it's the minute details that makes the surgery/repair successful you're attention to detail is inspiring !

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

Nice diagnosis & fix Brian! That's where knowledge & experience comes in! Great job!!

[@yunked210]

You probably the only one to figure it out good job!

[@josephgronkiewicz328]

This is an awesome find. I am a journeymen technician for Ford in Illinois.I have never run across this problem yet. Thank you for sharing this with us. God Bless!

[@MarioDallaRiva]

NOT fixable with an over the air update 👍🏼💪🏼 Bravo, Brian. 👏🏼

[@FordTechMakuloco]

LOL

[@bassmeister192]

I'm impressed....got a 08 150 KR with 190,000 miles and no issues....I followed your recommendation to go to 5w-30 full syn oil and change every 5k miles....this engine is sweet......smooth, and the 300 ponies coupled with 3:73 gears pulls my 20 ft bass boat thru mountains with ease.....gas milage ain't bad either.....I'm subscribed !!

[@markcarraway879]

I am a Ford Senior Master Tech retired....thank you techmakuloco!!!!

[@dieseltechjoe]

That's a fascinating find. As a dealer technician i will say I'm usually too much in a hurry of being rushed to spot an issue like that. One of many issues of this industry right now is there is no patience.

[@onenikkione]

A video I watched just b4 this one was stumping a tech because of timing being off on a VW diesel Jetta. The fix was it needed a new main seal !!! nice catch FTM.

[@deerhunter7482]

Brian is the master at his work !

[@hikerJohn]

You can see that even the knurls are wrong so that there's no place for the washer to reside. I wonder how many of these were made and ended up in the parts chain.

[@alchicago8343]

I saw that too...!

[@cbone5999]

Nobody knows 5.4 3 v like this guy he's the best. Thanks

[@beauterrell1886]

Immense attention to detail, sir. I sold my wife’s 2012 Expedition because it needed the timing done, and I was too afraid to do it lol Now I’m back in the boat w/ a 2008 Navigator w/ only 52k miles. When the time comes, I will spend even more hours watching all of your videos because I refuse to spend the ungodly amount of money the dealers and shops want. Again, thank you so much for all of your knowledge and beyond attention to detail.

[@davehayden29]

265,000 miles trans went out so had rebuilt, then had first timing job done. I would love to send ya photos of the guides, barly worn looking. And pictures of inside engine. Mobil one every 5000 miles since 22,000 miles. Swear by that. Outstanding. Looked like a new engine. Am sure you would be impressed.

[@7cylinder18]

Best mechanic hands down! saving me money and headaches for 5 yrs. Cheers!

[@Texasknowhow]

That is nuts! Attention to detail pays off, if he would have noticed the missing washer and questioned it maybe he wouldn't have had to send it to you for repair.... BUT, I'm glad he didn't because now we have all learned from this. Excellent Brian, you are so great to have as a teacher on KZbin. Thank you for all you do with your channel, you're a good man. Happy Father's day as well!

[@jacobaccurso]

Love watching how you “solve the crime.” Amazing knowledge.

[@nealrehm6900]

Brian you're like Columbo! What a detective story.

[@chrisretired5379]

Oh, thanks to you, I changed my spark plugs on 2014 Exp. It was stumbling a bit on acceleration, yet no codes. I believe those were the original plugs, at 152 K miles, no tips left on any of 8. Like a 1/4 inch gap. Thank You for giving us confidence in maintaining our Tritons 👍

[@bisenbart]

Done a few of these myself and that would have had me baffled! Good detective work Brian!

[@JimBronson]

I need to look in the kit that I have in the garage now and make sure I have this washer before I start my own timing job. Thanks again Brian!

[@rubendawn7478]

Even though I will never go this far on my repairs is just great to know this. Awesome video sir!!! This show how crucial engine oil is on newer modern engines.

[@southernoregonprospector9074]

Now I know what to look out for when I do this job on my expedition. Your info and tips are awesome brother!

[@free2chasehappy]

Just amazing! Definitely a manufacturing QC issue, man that small part definitely caused some sleepless night!

[@jefferythayer6103]

Only you. Bravo👏 . Thanks for being the " sluth " of mystery solving. I've watched you in the past, and you have helped me, greatly. I've commented, before, of my 2004 w/5.4, bought new, in 2003. Married to the ' faults ', and the good times. My XLT with 376,000, will still see me, towing my rv, once again. Thanks Bryan.

[@andrelnsoares]

Omg! That is amazing! I wish I could find a great mechanic like you here in South Florida.

[@DerrickJohnson-be3xz]

I’ve been lucky no issues on my 2012 Expedition but I’ve been looking and listening.

[@eegg6954]

Fantastic stuff only a mechanic appreciates!

[@jamesplotkin4674]

I'm not a mechanic and I still appreciate what Brian does. Another great catch and something to add to the note book ;-)

[@Joe-lj3ir]

Wow. You are a great mechanic. Great info. Incredible how sensitive the tolerances are. Great job. Great video. Thanks for sharing.

[@patrickursomanno8861]

You are amazing, only if local machanics here (FL) had half your abilities or at least you care to to a good job.

[@D2O2]

Great Catch Brian! On camera, iy appears the bolt missing the washer has the retention knurling right up to the shoulder, where the bolt with the washer has the knurling farther away from the shoulder. Definately seems like a quality miss.

[@Texasknowhow]

I noticed that as well... was thinking that bolt in general was messed up...

[@quattrohead]

I think it is the wrong bolt, maybe from a 2V 5.4 with no VVT.

[@D2O2]

@@quattrohead 5.4 2v has pressed on cam gears, no bolt.

[@drwombat]

He's lucky that there was no washer or that it fell off before he installed t, a loose washer running around in the engine would be terriblet

[@Nitrodr1]

Outstanding catch on that washer.

[@chrisretired5379]

Another awesome video from the master of Triton engines 👍👍👍👍

[@rons5341]

The serrations on the good bolt is a few mm above the shoulder of the bolt where the sealing washers is installed. The "bad" bolt doesn't have a space / gap between the serrations and the shoulder of the bolt.

[@FordTechMakuloco]

There is a gap just not the same amount as the other correct bolt.

[@nickd.4512]

And this my friends is the difference between an actual mechanic who's thorough and has passion for his job annnndddd your run of the mill tech who would probably have never found that little issue that made a major problem.

[@GT-fy1mr]

My 07 Nav is coming up on the 200k mile mark zero issues. As preventative maintenance gonna be getting a timing job done soon. Hopefully I find a mechanic as knowledgeable as you 🙏🏽

[@Adam-ej9mu]

Man you are a God to me!! You have me hooked on working on these 3valve engines. And I don’t know what I’d do without your knowledge and teachings. Pretty sure If you told me to eat dog shit that it would man my truck run faster… I’d ask you how much should I eat lol. Thank you for all that you do man on here cause you have saved me thousands and thousands of dollars.

[@pracso1535]

Sherlock holmes to the MAX !! , always a pleasure to watch you work. brother

[@SlyFox5.0]

Brian I noticed that the bolt missing the washer has another difference. The knurled part was machined all the way up to the shoulder leaving no space even for the washer...very interesting find. You're an incredibly talented tech, thank you for the helpful videos..very much appreciated!

[@FordTechMakuloco]

Definitely, the missing washer messed up the gauging for the machining process.

[@mikefalaschetti4335]

Wow!! Unbelievable! Good eye man good eye! I agree with another comment that no way would any local shop would find that issue. You have to know this pain in the ass motor inside and out!! Very impressed!!

[@jaxsonhugh9334]

That’s a hell of a find…… you definitely have to know your stuff in order to catch something like that..👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@Propertyinspector]

Great catch. Not sure many techs would catch that

[@eduardoalba3012]

You are an amazing mechanic and thank you for sharing so much knowledge with the rest of us sir! GOD BLESS YOU!

[@nclivin4220]

Good video 👍👍 went the extra mile for sure. You never know what someone else may have missed.

[@TimLibeer]

This was a fun video. Great catch. Way to look for the minute details.

[@jimdunne1900]

Wow! Very specific fix. 300k miles and I would expect more problems. These engines get a bad reputation that may not be earned.

[@adotintheshark4848]

If they are properly maintained, 300k miles and more is very possible

[@georgeeno_2815]

Mine has 228k miles 04 5.4 3v obviously ready to do a timing job on it. Dont know when prev owner did one if any.

[@AbcAbc-sp1od]

No, it's well earned. Plenty of motors can get to 300k miles without all the work that a 5.4 would need to get to 300k, lol

[@johnharbour3158]

Turned out to be a pretty darn good video explaining how it works as well

[@chrislegg4315]

I have had the exact same issue since a complete timing job at 190000 miles. I've been driving with the vcts unplugged because I had given up. I will be diving in to check the bolt.

[@justinwilliams2144]

By the way your scan tool bar moved to the left slowly when you started the engine it mimicked a bleed out. Good find!

[@CrimeVid]

I bet the guy that did this job will never fail to look for the washer again !

[@maravillassc]

Amazing skills. You take the truck to the ford dealer and they would say that you new a a new engine .. no kidding thank you dude

[@MichaelJohnson-vs3tt]

Compliancy of thinking that the kit is correct/complete. Good tip to check the kits that you buy to ensure the little things are there.

[@adambeale6938]

Thank you for taking the time to explain everything in detail. What an awesome video.

[@richardthomas1743]

HEY! Hello and thank you for the awesome videos!

[@simonelizondo3080]

Awesome video Now im going to pay attention to see if those washer are always included

[@Joe-df5ob]

Any other shop would of charged him for a new vct solenoid, new phaser, and probably some other bs like the alternator slipping 😆lol, great job tho, I swear people won't believe this "what was wrong with your truck it was running like crap" "ah it just needed 1 small washer"

[@fredsalter1915]

Outstanding vid Brian!

[@ronlind1757]

Customer used/had the incorrect bolt in this application. Check out at time 13:17 on video... (comparing the 2 bolts) the bolt without the washer (customers), has knurling right up to the shoulder not allowing any space for a washer (and slightly different length of knurl at that), whereas the new Ford bolt (from Brian's stash) has the knurling stop "short" of the shoulder allowing room for a washer. The customers bolt was either aftermarket... or for a different application.

[@FordTechMakuloco]

As others have said I am sure the machine that knurls the bolt is at a set depth from a hard stop which in a normal situation would be the washer and in this case the bolt head itself therefore the knurling goes further up in this case but there is still space there. The bolt come with the Ford phasers so no need to buy one or use aftermarket and pay extra.

[@Lee-td3fi]

Good stuff. I'm doing that timing set and what not later today.

[@elywalton7147]

That torque spec sounds a lot like the old adage, "wrench tight plus a quarter turn" 😎

[@tduncan55]

I am totally impressed with your knowledge and expertise and looking for the things like you do I do not have the equipment you have I have the basic knowledge I'm dealing with one right now for my daughter I've eliminated the 5 and 7 misfire codes I'm down to the left banke CVT and a rich code on that same bank Bank number two.... I'm thinking about swapping the CVT sensors from one side to the other before I buy one or two

[@winstonrocco1981]

I have a 06 with 306,000 and counting I need same done to mine or replace engine. Maybe I’ll do this as it doesn’t run bad or blow oil out the pipe. I was thinking mileage was too high but you changed my mind. I have never changed anything internally. But I maintained it .

[@JerryPonds]

Hey Makuloco, i am currently working on a 2010 F150 with the 5.4 3v. I replaced the oil pump, all gaskets, Timing Chains, slides and glides, phasers, phaser position sensors, and vct solenoids, all factory ford. I put it back together and the truck ran terribly. So i watched this video about the washer and didn't remember if they had them or not. Long story short i took the valve covers off to check the bolt situation. So i found that one of the washers on the cam bolt was too large and i didn't catch it. So when i torqued it down the washer wedged itself into the phaser. I realized this when, as i unscrewed the bolt, the phaser popped off the cam. All three of those little pins they put there in the bottom of the bolt hole to hold the phaser sheared off. So i actually reinstalled the cam phaser, hooking the spring back on the tabs, i twisted the phaser well past the L on the cam gear and then torqued it down. I was able to adjust it so when i tightened it the additional 90 degrees the phaser lined up with the L. Now the truck is hit and miss. Sometimes it runs like a dream, but then sometimes the check engine light comes on and throws a code saying "over retarded bank 1". Do i need to buy another cam phaser and install it or is this another problem?

[@danielmaine45]

Can you post a new link to the followers and timing job components for these engines? Some of the old ones don't work anymore and I wanted to do a complete timing job on my expedition using your expert videos as a guide.😊

[@chadanderson9570]

Heckuva a little technician Brian!

[@brandone6252]

Best ford repair videos

[@Chasred-ml4hm]

That was a wealth of information, thank you.

[@Twobarpsi]

Wooooooowwwwww! Incredible detective work Brian! A true Master Tech!!

[@tomwatkins4730]

Good work, Brian. Ford quality. Let's cross the each t and dot every i.

[@Jumper120mph]

Can you do an update video on how the high flow oil pumps are doing with the 5.4.

[@davestewart9146]

Wow, awesome find and fix, thanks Brian 👍😁

[@huntingspud3086]

Awesome diagnosis Brian, as usual!

[@380.motorsports]

When you had the two bolts side by side it looked like the one without the washer had also a lesser distance between the knurl and the bolt flange where that washer would fit. Am I wrong? It was hard to see in the video. If true then either the bolt was manufactured wrong or Ford had tried to cheapen the design by eliminating the washer. A very interesting find on your part and great repair.

[@christuttle3980]

Great job Brian must have been a Monday morning assembly at the plant😎

[@adotintheshark4848]

It seems on those engines, the issues don't seem to be the design itself but the incredibly cheap and flimsy parts (guides, rollers, tensioners) they are using. Not nearly robust enough. If they were you'd have far less problems.

[@richeyfoss3826]

That was a great repair job and the thing I see is that you have tons of patience and stick to it to find the problem. Thanks again for your videos I always check to see what you say.