Beretta Model 1931 & 1937 Experimental Semiauto Rifles

[@norcofreerider604]

Wow, the design of the 1937 rifle is really surprisingly elegant and simple.

[@samholdsworth3957]

Like my mommy

[@beargillium2369]

What's amazing to me is they were shooting at 1500 yds back then... I feel like human eyesight has really gone downhill since the invention of television 📺

[@ImmortalSugimoto792]

I know this is an older video, but 7.35 was packaged in boxes that contained 18 rounds. So as you suspected, the 1937 model having a 9 round capacity does indeed seem to have been based on logistical considerations.

[@nescumzwei]

I would normally comment something silly or try and pick something precise about what you are showing. This vid I can only think the following: Those guns are bloody beautiful.

[@artyom_zdanek]

A torsion and tension spring all in one? Engineering brilliance!

[@antonelloprodomo1473]

So Beretta managed to design a semiauto rifle, without having to drill the barrel, that could also operate manually as a bolt action? How did germany ended with that mess of a G41?

[@Isaac-ho8gh]

More beaucracy is why lol

[@denisoko8494]

The reason is old as humanity, i.e. Beretta had no weird requirements from customers!

[@Mr00Ted]

A bunch of clowns that insist their country/people are the best, of course they’re reluctant to adopt a “foreign” developed weapon.

[@keithsimpson2685]

"Lots" of engineering vs. "Good" engineering.

[@KJ-tr6cn]

Germany made it so that no recoil operated design would be accepted.

[@Saber2thFS]

Can we please take a moment to discuss just how ludicrously good-looking those red parts on the M1937 are? How was that even achieved? Is it tempering? Enameling? Is there anything else like it in the firearms world? I need something with that finish in my life. Shit boys, looks like I just found my collection's end goal.

[@joearnold6881]

Beautiful pieces. Especially the first one. There's something about the way they made things during the interwar years, the aesthetic and the components, that I really like. It's those Art Deco or Machine Age sensibilities, radios in the living rooms, leather covered desks, dark wood, hell even the early plastics like Bakelite have a certain gravity and style.

[@alexreams1060]

The "Really Smart Dude" Award is the highest honor that Forgotten Weapons can bestow. Tulio Marengoni is no doubt honored.

[@tangero3462]

Honestly both of these seem like remarkably reasonable service rifles. Thanks for the video!

[@ItaliArmi]

Che spettacolo d'arma. Andrea

[@sonoitalianoful]

funzionava con munizioni non lubrificate ? che tu sappia

[@alepag0357]

sonoitalianoful penso di no, le munizioni lubrificate le usavano solo le armi fiat ( non so se le usava anche la mitragliatrice mod. 14/35) e Breda (tranne la mitragliatrice mod. 37)

[@SurvivalRussia]

Even it looks a bit odd, it;s fine piece of precision engineering. I hope you had a good trip.

[@christopherdrekr1078]

That red colour finish on various parts is pretty impressive never seen anything like it on steel, I'd be interested to know what the process is if anyone knows :)

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Blueing on case hardened parts. Depending on the composition of steel, some turn reddish with time.

[@acedia_14]

This channel doesn't get anywhere near the amount of attention it deserves. ☹️Great work Ian! You are absolutely the best channel when it comes to obscure and yet really interesting firearms. Keep it up!!!

[@Sean_Coyne]

I suspect the front slide bearing is phosphor bronze, rather than brass. Fascinating guns Ian, thanks for that.

[@TheZINGularity]

how can you tell? and for what? Never heard of phosphor bronze before.

[@Sean_Coyne]

@@TheZINGularity It's a copper alloy that is used for bearings, sliding parts, the winding on guitar strings, boat propellers, you name it. Very common alloy. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor_bronze

[@TheZINGularity]

@@Sean_Coyne Damn, shows me how informed i am about alloying xd

[@AlexBobowski]

Gorgeous rifles, and a nice showroom too. I would have loved to know how these did in tests/trials, they seem like a simple and effective system. That they're able to work without a separate bolt/bolt carrier is unlike so many rifles that we see today. Great work as always! I'm glad to be a backer and to see content like this.

[@imbluz]

These rifles a surprisingly advanced for the 1930's! That M37 is gorgeous!

[@pakman422]

It's awesome that you've obtained such a successful following on Patreon to allow you to start doing things like this! I'm excited to see the rest of the Beretta videos and also other future places like this! Keep up the AWESOME work and thanks for creating this AMAZING content!

[@saxon215]

These are going on my list of favourites thanks for going so in depth

[@skyzefawlun]

Absolutely thrilled to see some of the content from your trip across the pond coming up! I've been looking forward to this for a while now. Great stuff!

[@ScottKenny1978]

Wow, those are *pretty!* I wasn't fond of the M9 in service (probably because the ones we had were shot out, rattled when you shook them), but I have always been fond of the Beretta shotguns and rifles. Given my choice, I'd take that lovely 6.5 home with me, but I suspect that Beretta would bury me for trying it for real.

[@burnsboysaresoldiers]

I know I am waaaaay late on this particular conversation but you can hear how these rifles just drip with Northern Italian quality. I really like them . To bad the Italians tried developing 7.35 apprise to just going to 7x57 with a lighter bullet weight

[@heaviesculture5516]

Italians make some beautiful firearms.

[@webtoedman]

That is a very elegant and well considered design, but I suspect that the barrel bushing is made of bronze, not brass. Brass works well in lightly loaded applications, clockwork, instruments and so on, but with a hot gun barrel,working in dirty conditions, with rapid movement and limited lubrication, bronze would be the first choice.

[@ant4812]

Yeah, I was thinking phosphor bronze.

[@CadillacFleetwood68]

Every time I watch this I can't stop thinking just how beautiful the craftsmanship is for these rifles. Do these rifles shoot from an open or closed bolt?

[@eddiedemartini9961]

Closed

[@Ethnarches]

I love the red finish on some of these Italian semi auto rifles of the period.

[@ap1s2k78]

stunningly gorgeous rifles.

[@anthonyclark9159]

the wood and metal work on the 1931 are beautiful

[@piersp38]

Thanks to share so many interesting movies of Our main producer Beretta . There were models I did not know before !

[@shinmei90]

Welcome to Italy, Ian ;)

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Grazie!

[@denisoko8494]

@@ForgottenWeapons BTW a Beretta Model 1931 & 1937 bolt head has similar to a Stoner design! Who used this design first Stoner or Marengoni?

[@matejmatej3554]

I always enjoy your videos greetings from Slovenia country next to Italy Austria Hungary and Croatia and we are not Slovakia and God damn we were never under USSR

[@RealFightfrog]

found the mad russian

[@matejmatej3554]

+RealFightfrog love new rusian politics

[@hanskc3302]

Back in the days I used to know one croatian girl named Petra. She shares with me some slovenian rock bands. I am listening them from time to time.

[@matejmatej3554]

+adriano coutinho like

[@matejmatej3554]

+adriano coutinho like

[@JMartinni]

That's amazing, beautiful rifles. Thank you so much for doing these videos!

[@DAVEMC1000]

That dark red finish on the second rifle is delicious. I wish they'd use that on guns today.

[@paoloodello3439]

I didn't know these italian prototype rifles. They are really interesting and and apparently efficient. Why were they rejected?

[@northeastwanderer]

War happens, and italy didn’t have lots of money for production.

[@Boxghost102]

​@@northeastwanderer Mussolini told Hitler he'd be ready by 1943. Which actually lines up with when the top line Italian tanks and planes came out, and the Littorio battleships would have been complete. Hitler went and started the war in 38.

[@thomaskole9881]

​@@Boxghost102*1939

[@DirtyBird28]

I love listening to that bolt cycle. So slick!

[@rickyracestrickland8927]

It's kind of an attractive rifle. I expect beretta to create such weapons.

[@iac4357]

Re. the Sights, Friends. On the Mod. 31, with the Rear Sight folded forward, it uncovers a 300 meter Battle Sight. Folded back, it starts at 450 meters. On the Mod. 1937 with the flatter shooting 7.35mm round, the Fixed Sight is most likely set at 200 meters; like the Mod. 1938 Carcano also in 7.35mm. IMO, also like the Carcanos, the Sight Alignment is most likely to place the Front Sight into the "bottom" of the deep Rear Sight V.

[@SgtKOnyx]

love the script, it's gorgeous

[@spacemanmoe5622]

Thank you Ian, thank you Beretta!

[@frankbrowning328]

I love this design. Too bad they didnt make these in 7.62 X 51 (.308 Win) I'd buy one as a hunting rifle. It's built very heavy duty and it looks like it would be very reliable in the cold.

[@bfFAN221]

You sir have fueled my alt.history juices. Kudos to you sir for showing these :D

[@BoZoiD57]

That lighting makes you look majestic.

[@BoZoiD57]

Also not sure what Italian semi-auto rifles have to do with teaching babies pop goes the weasel or identifying street vehicles.

[@SgtKOnyx]

+BoZoiD57 Apparently KZbin can't think beyond "education"

[@chzzyg2698]

I love the design of these rifles. Very smartly built. I wish todays manufacturers would borrow some of these older features such as the semi-auto/manual selector and the dust cover. How reliable is the '31 with clips?

[@Spasiboy]

I love when your vids are like 15 minutes plus.

[@Bizma111]

Oh the finish on that 7.35 rifle (receiver and semi/bolt toggle nut) was very nice...

[@emilianocaprili4160]

In my humble opinion this seems to be the best rifles, among all the Italian pre-WW2 ones.

[@ltousig]

Northern Italians are as industrious as the Swiss, but with better cuisine. Enjoy!

[@humansvd3269]

ltousig agreed.

[@bigfutus]

Very interesting and that redish color is so beautiful.

[@chapiit08]

I have a soft spot for barrel recoiling guns such as this and the venerable Remingtons Mod. 8 and 81

[@calvingreene90]

I can see the designer testing an overlong stripper clip and settling on the maximum number of bullets that works well.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Yeah. They probably tested them and settled on the maximum capacity that could be filled with a standard "thumb push" stripper clip.

[@cesarpallincourt9987]

Really great video. I have been looking for info on these guns for a long time so this was godsent. Thank you! Since you're in Italy, can we expect a video on the breda 35 or the armaguerra 39?

[@paulmanson253]

Ian I really must say I am genuinely surprised that you did not make comment on the bolt locking lugs. Surely the resemblence to the Stoner/AR system must have occurred to you.Is the Beretta the first use of this in a rifle? Would Stoner have known of this when he made use of it? Or did he reinvent the wheel,so to speak? Locking around the circumference makes much sense as long as it is affordable in process manufacturing. Needs some pretty specialized machinery,I would think.

[@crazyfvck]

+paul manson That style of bolt head was used on the Johnson rifle and light machine gun long before Stoner used it. It was also featured in several earlier weapons, including a strange shotgun that Ian did a video again.

[@KainzMusic]

The dark red shade on a lot of the metal parts on the 1937, is that by design or a happy accident?

[@chapiit08]

It's the color you get on 1970's era Winchester 94 receivers when you re-blue them using the common hot salt method.

[@marzcorp]

Hmm I've seen this on some old Beretta pistols as well from the same time period, I'm glad someone mentioned it because I've not been able to find anything online.

[@ZGryphon]

Hmm, interesting. I've got a Croatian PHP (redundant, I know) that's that color, I always assumed it was because it was browned rather than blued.

[@ZGryphon]

***** Not entirely: Bluing = black iron oxide (magnetite) = Fe3O4; browning = red iron oxide (rust) = Fe2O3. The latter doesn't get that extra spike of temperature necessary to convert the rust to magnetite, which is why I thought my PHP was browned; they were, after all, not made with what we might call state-of-the-art equipment. That said, I don't doubt that magnetite can also be brown, under certain conditions. I just hadn't realized it before.

[@artyom_zdanek]

Just remember the simple saying, purple wheat purple wheat, and you'll do just fine.

[@unclegee8434]

Now that's one beautiful rifle

[@astridvallati4762]

9 ROUND MAGAZINE????. Due to Italian Table of Issues: Infantry Rifleman was issued with 162 rounds in 6 - ed chargers. So when the Beretta in 7,35 was developed, the 9 round mag. And 9 rd stripperclip. 2x9 strippers per 18 rd packet, same as 3x6 rd. Chargers per packet. 162 = 18 x 9 ( packets 3 chargers) ==27 chargers 162 = 18x 9 ( packets of 2 strippers) == 18 STRIPPERS for same quantity of cartridges. Ammo crates were to be same size, and cartridge pouches didn't need to be modified. Charger(6) ammo was pouched vertically ( clip uppermost) andstrippers were pouched horizontally ( stripper left and right. Normal single unit 3- pouch issue hole 3x 18 rds ( 54) and double ( L & R ) held 108 rds...rest of 162 rds carried sealed packets in haversack or backpack. Distribution of 9 rd stripper ( 7,35) would have been similar...single unit pouches...54 rounds, but only 6 strippers. Etc. The Beretta 37, Breda PG in 7,35, and the ArmaGuerra 39 came too late for Italy's underdeveloped industries and the start of war if June 1940....

[@hanskc3302]

Nice rifles! Looks pretty interesting, I wonder about gas operated versions.

[@AAAF556]

Whenever at the Beretta Museum, always remember to leave the gun, and take the cannoli.

[@rjonzen34]

Those are beautiful rifles!

[@fyodorplays6094]

hey man, great vid! love those rare guns

[@keithsimpson2685]

Sometimes I wonder why "semi semi automatic" rifles never caught on. A rifle that ejects and opens on firing and you just push closed would be a nice in between, akin to artillery systems.

[@reonthornton685]

Because if you were able to go that far, you might as well go all the way to semi auto for a military rifle as you've already lost the accuracy of a bolt action system but haven't gained much in return, plus it'd inherently make the rifle more dangerous and even more sensitive to ammunition loaded too hot that could blow back into the shooter's face, or potentially worse.

[@TheProdigy87]

So neat. After learning about the three dimensions, colors and geometry with a London double decker bus, children can now easily learn how to disassemble the Beretta Models of 1931 & 1937. Haha.

[@thelaughinghyenas7962]

Beautiful and fascinating looking guns. Do you know how they performed in trials? Why weren't they adopted?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Nope, I have no information on trial results.

[@DiggingForFacts]

Knowing the Italian army in the 1930's they probably weren't. Equipment acquisition tended to be all over the place and often at the whims of whatever some fascist believed to be important, so odds are fair that these didn't go beyond trial models.

[@jon2067]

@@DiggingForFacts ooooooor maybe it was because it was a pain to change every single rifle in the army with different rounds? You're a smart boy aren't you?

[@Scott-gs1ep]

It's amazing how gorgeous war rifles were back in the day.

[@RalphReagan]

sks clips hold 6.5 carcano and 7.35 carcano

[@Alan.livingston]

That would be an amazing place to poke about.

[@thegoldencaulk2742]

God I love that plumb-bluing!

[@jackeyxm8401]

that plum color metal is beautiful

[@charlesballiet7074]

17:15 whats that wonderfull red/brown they have coating the receiver? I've never seen that color of blueing before

[@padi5star]

Question: The “Beretta Reference Museum” you mention at the beginning of this video, is it the one located in Gardone Val Tropia, just outside the Italian city of Brescia? If not, where is it located? I could not find any references on the internet.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Yes, it is outside Brescia.

[@padi5star]

I hope you enjoyed some of the good Italian food. Needles to say, I am Italian, born, raised and educated, missing that good food!

[@Jstone108]

How did you figure out how to disassemble this weapon? Did you find a manual, have it explained to you, or (most likely) use some good old fashioned American ingenuity?

[@rcevey2]

Looks like 9 rounds might have been chosen so the magazine wouldn't descend lower than the trigger guard. Maximum ammo count without impeding prone fire.

[@lucianene7741]

Usually, short-recoil rifle design requires a bolt accelerator. In the M1919 the accelerator is a separate piece, in the Johnson 1941 and MG-34 the the bolt itself acts as an accelerator, transferring some kinetic energy from the recoiling barrel to the bolt carrier, which in turn controls the bolt. This rifle is unusual in the way that it doesn't have a bolt carrier, and seems not to have a bolt accelerator either. If that's the case, this is probably why the rifle wasn't accepted. The lightweight bolt without an accelerator and the locking being performed by a spring instead of a mass do not compound well to deliver a reliable weapon. As slick as ingenious as it seems, this rifle was probably hypersensitive to dust and sand, and Mussolini had business in Abyssinia and Libya...

[@ILikeToColourRed]

the reddening of some of the metal parts is quite aesthetically pleasing, is there a reason for them being treated differently (ie, not blued) ?

[@adamnouiguer3430]

I am so very late, but another commenter wrote that bluing on case hardened parts made of certain steels ages like that. Can't confirm it though.

[@Jesses001]

I love it when old bluing turns that red color.

[@Viper2132]

Is it possible they meant that you load it using two 5-round stripper clips, with the bolt chambering a round and leaving you with nine rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber? Also, are there any trials reports on these guns?

[@57WillysCJ]

Wow compared to the Carcano. I would assume though it would be expensive to manufacture 10000 in a hurry. I do like the designer's understanding of a grunt, that more than likely never handled a rifle. Oh so many things could go wrong.

[@EzraeL91]

It's funny as the Beretta mod37 would have easily won the Gewehr 41 contest!

[@SearTrip]

I'd bet the metal handguard on the later one comes from using the same size wood blanks for the stock & handguard that the M38 short rifles used.

[@ohredhk]

Cool stuff as usual.

[@dreed7312]

You could have spent the entire video on the beautiful plum colored bluing. omfg.

[@TonboIV]

12:00 Take a look here, the recoil spring actually bears on the firing pin, rather than the bolt. I think I've figured out how this works. The lug on the firing pin blocks forward movement while the bolt is unlocked. During the forward stroke, the recoil spring pushes on the firing pin, and the firing pin lug pushes on the cam surface of the bolt body. The bolt body stops against the barrel, and then rotates to lock, which frees to firing pin to move forward. The recoil spring is pushing it forward now, and the lug on the firing pin is clear of the cam on the bolt body, so it can move forward, but the recoil spring alone isn't strong enough to set off the primer without the momentum of a moving firing pin. The firing pin spring also counters at least some of the force, but it looks like the firing pin is actually resting lightly against the primer even before firing. Take a look at 14:50. Before he threads on the spring cap, you can just see a few millimetres of firing pin sticking out from the back of the bolt body. Watch that little bit of metal move forward and disappear as the spring comes to full tension. It's unconventional to say the least, but it should work well. A sharp blow from the muzzle end might set off a round though. It's definitely not drop safe.

[@ThePerfectRed]

Serial no. 1 - wow!

[@johnmongiello7894]

9 is considered a lucky number in Italy, could be a coincidence for the magazine. Doesn’t surprise me that in war you want all the luck you can get.

[@SpoontheMoose]

wow are you actually in Italy? are you also going to be doing more Beretta firearms?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

I was when I filmed this a couple weeks ago, but I have since returned home. I did 5 videos in the Beretta museum during my visit.

[@SpoontheMoose]

+Forgotten Weapons well that's awesome can't wait for the next one. Do you plan on visiting any other European gun manufacturers?

[@Mathos93]

awesome :D

[@lucignolo8333]

+Forgotten Weapons i live near the beretta museum, wish i could've enjoy some shooting with u guys

[@Tuton25]

When running the 1937 as a bolt action, would you benefit if you removed the main spring so you aren't fighting against it?

[@colinsmyth9211]

Does the Johnson rifle not infringe the patents of this?

[@stevelewis7263]

The 1931 model is so elegant,

[@smokeydops]

The red steel on the 37 is beautiful. What kind of finish is that?

[@jacobvestergaard9097]

Uhlala, you didn't lie when you said you had two cool guns coming up!

[@hippo762]

So in the M.37, what happens to the 9 round stripper clip? Is it just flipped out with the thumb after pushing the rounds in, a la SMLE, or does it go all the way in with the rounds and it somehow ejected on empty a la Garand?

[@thegoldencaulk2742]

Where's the link to the catalog page where I can bid on these? As if I could even afford them.

[@kubamakovsky]

These are not for sale, he was in a museum lol

[@thegoldencaulk2742]

Jakub Makovsky I know ;)

[@kubamakovsky]

i think he only said so in the start eh but pretty cool that he could travel that far eh

[@SgtKOnyx]

+TheDoctorGnome Think op was joking

[@SgtKOnyx]

TheDoctorGnome I know

[@CopyCatCo]

Sorry to bother, but would you happen to know what they did to the top of the receiver and the end cap of the 1937 to redden it like that?

[@Panzerkopf]

That's some REALLY nice plum bluing on the second model receiver :O That usually is the result of a contaminated bluing process, right?

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Several, but not all, of the Beretta handguns of those years have the slide (and sometimes the hammer) that turned like that. So we can say that it depends both on the material (otherwise the body and the barrel would have turned the same way) and the composition of the bluing salts (infact it doesn't always happen).

[@Panzerkopf]

+Neutron Alchemist My father had a Ruger MKII Target where the bolt and mainspring housing had that plum tint actually.

[@autistic_elite]

What do you think they weren’t adopted? I think they should’ve bought maybe about 2000 of each one. And put them out to see how they performed.

[@RGMadSimon]

Careful when pressing the follower, watch out for beretta thumb

[@SacoreyRugger]

definitely not the most contrived design you've looked at so far, but definitely a good obscure gun

[@DeanmC261993]

You went to Italy! I'm so jealous!

[@iota-09]

level of jelousy depends on where you live, italy is a very average to sub-par country unless you go only in those highly acclaimed areas such as venezia, roma, perugia, firenze, etc...

[@carta8399]

@@iota-09 Aaand Puglia, Sicilia, Sardegna if you want mountains and a beautiful sea, Toscana if you love green valleys, Valle d'Aosta, if you want snow, and of course the Alps, then other cities like Genova, Pisa, Bologna, millennial historic monuments wherever you go etc.. At some point you have mentioned the whole country. You have ever been in Italy? Average or below average? You sure?

[@iota-09]

@@carta8399 i live in it.

[@carta8399]

@@iota-09 Anche io, e non direi affatto che è un posto mediocre o deludente come dici tu

[@iota-09]

@@carta8399 Sará, ma di certo non direi ad un americano "ah si l'Italia e bella, vai a giugliano in campania", perché si parla di piccole città, poco più chr paesi che non hanno praticamente nulla e quello che hanno è spesso anche fatiscente, certo, vi sono luoghi meno conosciuti all'estero ma comunque fantastici o che hanno comunque almeno un qualcosa anche se poco da offrire, orvieto e il suo duomo ad esempio, pozzuoli e l'Interezza dei campi flegrei, ma trovo che queste siano eccezioni alla regola e che in media l'Italia non sia così sorprendente come si vuole far credere; l'unica cosa unanimamente buona ovunque è il cibo, per quanto quello vada a gusti e ogni luogo ha il suo punto forte e i suoi punti deboli.

[@heisenberg1817]

What is the process called that gets them components that reddish brown color

[@neutronalchemist3241]

Blueing on case hardened parts. Due to the composition of steel, some turn reddish with time.

[@Sladey93]

Why is the receiver of the 37 almost red in colour? Is it due to the heat treating process of the metal?

[@andrewsuryali8540]

Hi Ian, are you still in Italy? I'm actually flying to Rome tomorrow for a weeklong "pilgrimage" of sorts to the main papal basilicas because this is a Catholic Jubilee year.

[@SigurdtheRyder]

How accurate was this rifle? What was the recoil like.