Weird Slide Action Prototype Rifles

www.forgottenw...
/ forgottenweapons
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.bbtv.com/c...
These two slide action rifles came form the same collection, and are pretty clearly related - one is a toolroom type of early prototype and the other is a refined pre-production sort of example. However, we have no idea who made them, or when or where. They look well made enough to have been the product of a legitimate firearms factory, but could also have been the work of a dedicated hobbyist. Without markings or provenance, we will probably never know. But they certainly are interesting to take a look at!
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
PO Box 87647
Tucson, AZ 85754

[@MEGALODONGERS]

These are Samuel McClean designs! I recognize them from his patents. He was the core designer for the machine gun that would eventually evolve into the Lewis Gun!

[@MEGALODONGERS]

Sources are patents US601842A and US723706A.

[@wingracer1614]

Oh sweet. I was looking at the patents someone else posted and thought that name sounded familiar but I couldn't think of where.

[@lysandermakhno5778]

Wow, great job! Those patents match the rifles exactly.

[@TheDougwoods]

I looked up those patents, and I'm very impressed and glad that you shared them.

[@compwiz101]

Reading the patent, it looks like the unknown control on the earlier prototype may have been a magazine cut-off

[@K31R616]

It's a Bullpump :D

[@tk-5764]

POOR PIRANO Like you :O

[@cybershot264]

Get out lol

[@Tbrous4]

*CARLOS!*

[@magicman9218]

@Judge Dredd he didn't say being gay was bad, he said that term sounds like a euphemism for some kind of gay sex, which it totally kind of does. Go up to a gay friend and ask if they can give you a "bull pump", and see that sassy eyebrow raise

[@D8W2P4]

Bullpup, no M.

[@eddyguizonde401]

"it doesn't work. which is a minor issue." ian "gun jesus" mccollum, 28 november 2018.

[@paxien1252]

For a man of his power it truly is.

[@StrawberryShmello]

It’s a minor issue because it’s for the best

[@SangTheCryptek]

It's like if someone tried to create a solution to the 'problem' of "But what if I want to shoot a lever-action while prone?"

[@jackson15williams]

@@xXvenomslasherXx NO! I REFUSE TO TURN SLIGHTLY!

[@joshcruise2657]

@Andrew Abbott LOL very witty! BUT, there goes your sight picture with that 90 degree turn.

[@joshcruise2657]

@Andrew Abbot Very true but there weren't many semi-autos to choose from when this weapon was designed. patents.google.com/patent/US723706A/en Plus I was really just being nit-picky to see what kind of comments I would get, the "range ninja" comment made it totally worth it. LOL!

[@11Neh]

just dig a very small trench below your firing position

[@greasyt9400]

Cinnamanster A supine shooting!

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

There's probably someone somewhere with a really weird trigger mechanism who's wondering what the rest of the gun looked like.

[@BastosFC2]

Lol

[@lonelypotato520]

“Finally done designing my pump action rifle” “Shouldn’t the pump be on the front?” “...”

[@ianfinrir8724]

"Why did you put the pump in the back?" "Shut up! That's why!"

[@heavilyarmedhippie75]

At a time Winchester held the patent on pump action fore ends, which is why I'd date this anywhere from 1890 to 1920

[@aeddonmckaba9797]

The burgess shotguns had a pump on the grip and were actually decent firearms

[@keithlarsen7557]

Looks like an attempt to make a military lever gun, that can shoot spitzer bullets and be cycled prone.

[@jannovotny9630]

That actually makes a lot of sense. +1 to that.

[@jic1]

I thought the same thing; but you lose the speed advantage of a lever action or a pump action, while adding complexity. That's probably why the design doesn't seem to have got past the prototype stage.

[@alexdemoya2119]

I think you are right. Good call mr larsen

[@-Griffin]

This is a good theory. In that case, these were probably made around the civil war era and the creator was going to try and cash in.

[@mgessel1]

@@-Griffin older model according to the patents was 1896 newer model was 1903

[@fitzbuhn]

The rifle has a such a high degree of craftmanship in all the metal components that make up the action, it really is absolutely beautiful. Even in the first prototype you can see a metal workers love of that craft. Ian: these barrel bands and stock cap must have come from somewhere else.

[@UndeadPasta]

I know. When he was pointing that out I was like man did you not just see those insane mechanisms?

[@rotwang2000]

A true forgotten weapon !

[@davidgreen40]

And for good reason!

[@MEGALODONGERS]

They were made by Samuel McClean. He's best known for designing a machine gun that would eventually evolve into the Lewis Gun.

[@charlesadams1721]

umconwa5; Bingo!

[@MEGALODONGERS]

Patent US601842A also for the "slide lever" rifle.

[@TheWolfsnack]

@@davidgreen40 ..the ultimate gun control weapon.......sigh

[@zachcoulter1499]

'what the heck are those rifles' is my favorite game

[@tenofprime]

Indeed the mystery gun videos and the oddball oneoff prototypes are great.

[@chrisdooley6468]

Zach Coulter the pinned first commenter identified it right away and even provided damn patent info and pics! That guy above is on par with Ian with his knowledge no doubt

[@rickardspaghetti]

So the top one is actually a bullpup?

[@robertbostantzis1811]

rickardspaghetti exactly what I was about to ask, I'd guess yes just because of the "magazine behind trigger" design

[@allencook6574]

Sorta the bullpup rifle has the action behind the trigger. all we have in this gun is a magazine behind the trigger so I’d say it’s a bastard bullpup it’s like a bullpup but its also not a bullpup

[@David-kd4qr]

@@allencook6574 that's what I was thinking as well. The magazine is far back, but the barrel still starts ahead of the trigger. The whole point of a bull pup is to have a longer barrel, this does not.

[@Nukle0n]

It's a bullshit :P

[@whyjay9959]

@@David-kd4qr The barrel starts ahead of the trigger, but still closer to it than it could've been with a conventional design, because then there wouldn't be room to load a long rifle cartridge.

[@luismoreira792]

I wonder if some of these ideas were not attempts to avoid infringing patents.

[@DoitForTheLolz1]

You're probably right since there's no point to this system if you could just use pump action.

[@FreeOfFantasy]

I think you are right. I see no improvement over pump or leaver action.

[@polygondwanaland8390]

@@FreeOfFantasy Or straight pull bolt action. You could use the same bolt and carrier with a much more sensible handle out the side or top.

[@jic1]

@@FreeOfFantasy Might be better than either a pump or lever action for firing prone, which could be relevant if the designer had any ambition for military contracts. Other than that, it seems like the worst of all worlds: slower than either a pump action or a lever action, more complicated than a bolt action, more awkward than any of the above. No wonder only two prototypes seem to have been made before they gave up.

[@tylerguteres2449]

That's what I was wondering, as well. It feels like whoever made these rifles was trying to (albeit vaguely & unsuccessfully) replicate the slide action of the Burgess folding shotgun.

[@theJellyjoker]

If you think this is bad, whit until all the 3d printed projects start showing up at these auctions.

[@jackvernian7779]

it's pretty difficult to sell plastic scrap as an antique.

[@jic1]

@@jackvernian7779 Tell that to any collector of 19th century celluloid.

[@jackson15williams]

2199: I see you replaced the original rubber bands. That knocks the value down by half.

[@gcart7675]

Jack Vernian not really

[@datacentermgmt]

Gun Jesus brining us the Dead Sea Scrolls

[@cmbunit01]

I see what you're saying - "brining." Thought you could slip that one past us?

[@stoneblue1795]

stop

[@datacentermgmt]

Wise One @cmbunit01

[@SurgingApocalypse]

I like that name

[@elonmust7470]

I imagine the OP to have many toy action figures still in the packaging lining the walls of his room.

[@icarusDaBoi]

Something about this just screams Winchester to me. The falling elevator, the reciprocating slide action, the design of the handle, the early toolroom prototype that looks a hell of a lot like a Winchester 94... this really feels like someone who really liked the Winchester 94 attempted to design a semiauto, and used a lot of the operating ideas from that gun in this gun.

[@SgtStinger]

Yeah I agree, I immediately thought it was a Winchester or Winchester inspired.

[@rotwang2000]

I wonder if this gun wasn't meant to fire a full size smokeless spitzer .30 round before the 95 came round. Seems to me somebody had a lightbulb moment and tried a slide system rather than the toggle link lever system.

[@lunarpking]

noth606 Straight back and forth actions like a slide or a straight pull are VERY close to a semi auto, all you need is some sort of gas system or blowback system and a return spring at that point.

[@jic1]

@@lunarpking Yes, but this particular rifle was clearly not a semi-auto.

[@eddiegirvan2394]

my first thought when i saw them was a mod. 1895 win. one other thought could it be slam fire

[@johndallman2692]

Item #1 for a "Gun Detective" series, in the mold of Mythbusters, where the cast try to figure out where and when a gun came from, how it's meant to work, and try to fix it.

[@jic1]

If that's the kind of thing you like, try IV8888's video Determining Unknown Calibers With Cerrosafe, and the follow-up video.

[@bobkissinger4893]

@@jic1 Midway

[@jic1]

@@bobkissinger4893 Huh?

[@trainsbangsandautomobiles824]

Doesn't work, just a minor issue lol

[@gustavusadolphus425]

@@LoneWolf-wp9dn Socialism works very well. It is basically communism with a lot of capitalist features (or I guess communism 2.0) Communism it the one that does not work, although technically there has never been a true communist state. True communism is a very direct governance by the people or a more regulated anarchy (technically no government but there is order). The USSR got stuck at stage two with a revolutionary government. The actual theory argues that the revolution government would then transfer power from the few, to the people and make itself obsolete in the process. But seriously, true capitalism is horrific. Things like labor laws, minimum wage, public education and all the rest are actually socialist ideas that have been added on to the base capitalist system. If you want to see what true capitalism looks like, take a peek at china's labor conditions (I know, ironic that a communist state has a very capitalist industry). Or look up working conditions during the 19th century in the mines and factories.

[@paulhickie9148]

Chris Collins can we just keep politics out of this and just in joy the guns.

[@trainsbangsandautomobiles824]

@@paulhickie9148 Why you telling me, I didn't say shit about politics lol

[@paulhickie9148]

Chris Collins not you the people who bought it up.

[@B60IN3]

@@paulhickie9148 We can keep correct spelling out of this also. Enjoy.

[@The_Big_Jay]

This design is so bizarre, and possibly non-functional, but that slide pull at 11:05 was like butter.

[@Urineluck220]

I think this is my favorite kind of Forgotten Weapons video, when Ian admits without shame that he doesn't understand wtf this gun is about. So then it feels like were kinda learning together

[@mw4222]

you charge it like a nerf gun

[@EnLaMatrix1]

It better not chew the ammo in the chamber, like a nerf gun

[@MKRocker2012]

It even sounds like a nerf gun

[@EnLaMatrix1]

@@MKRocker2012 It triggered some serious "dart stuck in the middle of the barrel" flashbacks

[@Isaac-ho8gh]

Michael, you realise that he didn't want to damage the gun and that he showed how it worked right? The manly toughness arsehole mindset gets so many things wrong.

[@klarstrup]

@@Isaac-ho8gh calm down, Michael was using the general you and referring to the manual of arms of the rifle.

[@paulosborne6517]

The more advanced of the two rifles [with the rear magazine] makes me wonder how well the system would work with a pistol grip [instead of a pump grip] housing a normal style pistol / carbine calibre magazine. Holding a pistol grip and pumping it would be quite natural - as long as you didn't smash your trigger finger going forward... or maybe you could have a fancy sliding trigger guard and trigger setting action as part of the forward pump stroke, so you didn't have to change your grip at all.

[@TheStygian]

It's a pump action with the pump at the location of a Lever-Action.

[@lonelypotato520]

Put the magazine behind the trigger, put the pump action behind the trigger, fuck it, put the barrel behind the trigger

[@thepeoplesrepublicofdisney5058]

I’m honestly surprised no one did this before or after lever action

[@ArcturusOTE]

@@thepeoplesrepublicofdisney5058 Probably had something to do with the success of bolt action rifles and pump action shotguns

[@gcart7675]

The Peoples Republic Of Disney someone made a prototype bullpup double barrel its on forgotten weapons thats pretty cool to me

[@uummmnocoolnames]

This thing seems like it's one pistol grip away from being a great turn of the century rifle - rotate the slide grip 90 degrees and you fix your awkward grip problem.

[@isaacestrada4291]

The gunsmith who made these was ahead of his time, homie made them California compliant with that grip lmao

[@johnmc8785]

I believe those rifles are the tool-room prototypes of the Mausefalle-Goldberg rifle. Designer was an ex-pat Volga German from Russia. The idea was to "improve" on the Winchester lever-action rifles that the Russian army had used in 7.62x54R. One complaint about the lever guns were their propensity to jam up with muck, when used prone. While the Mosin-Nagant 91 took care of that issue, they wanted the increased rate of fire that the lever guns gave them. The missing trigger mechanism consisted of a lever linked to a "thimble" that held a steel ball bearing. When pressed, the trigger actuated the lever, which tilted the "thimble", which released the ball bearing down an inclined channel, at the end of which, it struck the back of the firing pin. As you know, the design failed. The designer then became an illustrator for a newspaper syndicate.

[@polygondwanaland8390]

Mystery weapons are best weapons.

[@GunFunZS]

"What the heck are those rifles" is a much more fun game than "Where the heck are my rifles".

[@Weed8Gone]

Ian, when you find pieces like this do you spend time mulling them over afterward? For instance, will you lay awake at night after examining this gun and wonder why did he do this or what was the purpose of that? Or have you forgotten them the next day whilst moving on to the next thing?

[@CFABN267]

Good Q&A question.

[@garfe5555]

Of course he forgets them. They're FORGOTTEN WEAPONS

[@bradenrichards5615]

I suspect that the tab on the pump handle on the first rifle may have been intended to act like a modern day pump shotgun. When the weapon is initially put into battery the handle would lock, only opening by depressing the tab manually. Then you fire and it is unlocked automatically by the action itself. Very cool and intriguing artifacts! Love all of your channels Ian, keep up the great work!

[@baronlesch4537]

“They don’t work, a minor issue” a minor issue 😂

[@justinlegrand992]

Tbh if these were finished I would love to have one, they just look cool

[@planescaped]

I can't be the only one who thought that was a folding pistol grip. :P

[@jettsnake1979]

For all we know, these fell through a portal from an alternate dimension where this is the standard rifle action

[@BigHarryBalzac]

I've seen the inside of a lot of of different firearms designs, but don't think I've ever seen anything like that diamond shaped cam track that makes the lug take two different paths. M2 and M85 machine gun bolts have 2 tracks where you set them to feed from the left or right side, but the cam still only runs in one track or the other, not both like this. It's a clever idea.

[@WH32R]

I believe the loose linkage that you pointed out that had a control is the loading ram. The shape appears to catch on the bolt when it moves back, with the control page acting as a manual disconnect

[@chiriematthieu]

Ian, the only weapon expert who can say "it don't work but it's a minor detail" and still be credible.

[@teethpaste8568]

Hey this can't be a forgotten weapon if it was never remembered in the first place

[@nelsbruckner2209]

I'm probably wrong, but at around 12:50, the long strip of metal protruding from the left appears that it could be pushed upward, engaging the square tab with the reciprocating portion of the bolt. Racking the action would pull that strip backward, stripping a cartridge and pulling it backwards into the elevator. The switch forward of the trigger disconnects the forward end of the strip from the magazine, so that the action can be racked w/o feeding a cartridge. Just a guess. Great show Ian! Keep up the good work. And congrats on the book progress. --Nels

[@alexccjrb1]

Pretty sure the top one is a Borgen-Fuller ?1912? Mechani-Slide Rifle. My grandfather has one, I don't know where he got it though.

[@counterfeit6089]

You may want to upload a video or something about it, seems like an extremely obscure gun

[@FirstLast-cg9ic]

upload a video about it, nothing in google is showing up about it, could be something.

[@alexccjrb1]

I didn't realize they were that rare! Next time I go down and visit my grandpa, I'll have to bring down my gopro and make my own little forgotten weapons video!!

[@skibur848]

I pray that one day I can make a gun well enough to go from “Homemade” to “Prototype”

[@rfuty5428]

But what if these guns are from another dimension and we are not supposed to see them?

[@counterfeit6089]

That's the impression that I was getting

[@unspokentruths6416]

I love videos like these! I know they're hard to come by but I wish you could do more videos showing unique, strange and improvised/homemade/craft-built firearms.

[@mattl6680]

Looking at these handmade prototypes makes me wonder what their tools and machining processes were like 100+ yrs ago.

[@SkeeterMcBeater]

Someone should put that second rifle in a video game. So cool.

[@THX..1138]

I'm guessing on the prototype rifle you slide the follower out of the way and drop the cartridges straight down. Then slide the follower back in place where it puts tension on the stack of cartridges so they will be picked up by the loading carriage. If the follower doesn't seem like it would push on the cartridges it probably because a spring and or some other piece of the mechanism is missing. Maybe was never even built before the design was abandoned for the next version.

[@marshaul]

There's no way this was intended to side-step patents. First of all, the slide action wasn't new, the patent would have already been expired for half a century or so by the time this rifle was likely made (though I'm guessing at the exact date of this design). Secondly and for the same reason any other types of repeating actions which this might have hoped to replace would also have been long expired. It's possible it was an attempt not to avoid an old patent but obtain a new one, but IMO even that is doubtful as it isn't conceptually novel enough to justify the development for a patent that would likely never have been granted. More likely this exists because the designer really liked slide actions. Perhaps this was an attempt to design a rifle for cartridges like the .30-06 which had a faster, less clumsy action than the rotating bolt-actions which were prevalent at the time.

[@jackvernian7779]

if it were to work I tihnk it would be on part with SMLE in the regards to target picture.

[@wingracer1614]

It was patented by an American in 1898.

[@marshaul]

@@wingracer1614 "It" huh? That's so very precise. Patent number, please.

[@lessthenoriginalcynical1493]

@@marshaul US601842A and US723706A

[@marshaul]

​@@lessthenoriginalcynical1493 Those do appear to be patents for this firearm, sure enough, though the first has to do with the magazine and I cannot find the second, though it does not appear to be for the slide action. So this gun is a few years earlier than I guessed, but at the same time it confirms my bet that the this design well postdates the expiry of any action patents against which this gun might have competed.

[@philfelix9764]

An odd rifle. Can't imagine how awkward it would be to fire, especially a full power rifle round.

[@brunothehumble]

That goofy bit on the older gun reminds me of a magazine cut off. And I would personally suspect that the bolt in some way would drag back a cartridge to be loaded putting it into the elevator. Then it pops up at the end of the stroke and viola it’s in the load path. Definitely an interesting design.

[@mixererunio1757]

-I have got two news: bad and good. Which one do you want? -Good one. -We built it. -And bad one? -It doesn't work. -Fuck yeah! What do you mean it doesn't work?

[@LtJackboot]

Excellent video Ian, an honestly forgotten weapon- thank you!

[@anchorbait6662]

So does this count as a bullpup?

[@narcoleptic8982]

Nope. Bull pup has it's action behind the trigger.

[@NightlyElite]

This is the most beautiful rifle I have ever seen, like the sks but even more beauty

[@lentlemenproductions770]

As said in other places, it’s an American McClean Rifle, but I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned the C&Rsenal video on the Lewis Gun says this pattern of rifle (possibly one of these specific examples) was trialled by the US Ordnance Board in 1898, presumably in .30-40 or a developmental cartridge based on it. Also, Othias says it’s a bolt action, but the patent shown clearly matches these guns.

[@patrickbateman312]

I always like seeing guns made by people who are obviously very clever and ingenious, with a good understanding of machines and absolutely no idea what it's like to actually handle and operate the fuckin' thing.

[@otte940]

If gun Jesus doesn't know what it is then all hope is lost

[@aaronbuckmaster7063]

I love treasures like those. It is really neat to see examples of innovation, especially when it leads to other firearms.

[@jessehall1879]

Would love to see these fire a whole clip

[@deet_boii]

Guns like this are what really makes forgotten weapons truly 'forgotten" Litteraly no marks and 2 weird patents someone had to really look for...

[@poldpoldecki7171]

On the "more metal gun" you can easily see, that if this bar that does nothing would have been a bit higher, the bolt would pull it bach way before the elevator rises. Then it is possible that this guy would pull the cartridge back into the elevator.

[@sampointau]

The switches on the slide handles are for unlocking the action if the rifle is loaded, allowing you to safe the weapon/decock.

[@FinflazodeTurroai]

Quite curious and interesting, as always. Thanks.

[@36Erkanator]

This tickles my interests, please continue this sort of topic.

[@willh.7755]

The thing on the left of the prototype rifle on the magazine could possibly be a device that when you pull it back and cycle the action it would keep the cartridge elevator down if the operator wanted to single shot the rifle or had to remove a stuck case

[@johnfisk811]

I suspect that these may be one of the patent proving prototypes that Winchester made to prove in court that Francis Bannerman's case for patent infringement by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company with their 1890/1893 slide/pump action shotguns was invalid. As there were patents that pre dated those owned by Bannerman. The Bannerman patent being the 1882 one for the Spencer and Roper whose rights Bannerman bought and made as the Bannerman 1890 repeating shotgun. Winchester dug up patents by Bails, Krutsczh, Curtis and Magot. Winchester made tool room examples of each patent and demonstrated them in court and the court ruled against Bannerman. It would explain why they are not complete, use a Winchesterish elevator and are made with odd spare bits. I have seen the Curtis, Magot and the Krutschz so possibly this is the Bains? The flaw in my theory is that the issue may have centred upon the forearm slide which would eliminate these mystery rifles.

[@yoshialmighty8324]

These are truly Forgotten Weapons

[@mechredd]

I have a slide action Remington in 30-06. A model 7600, it's a wonderful rifle and a shame that the product line isn't more popular.

[@commandercody2980]

I like how the second one not working is only a minor issue.

[@SnoopReddogg]

All manner of design niftyness going on here. I like it

[@TheLegitAlpha]

Two prototype McClean rifles. Someone in the comments actually got the patents, and it seems these are the only ones in existence. The only other weapon I saw with a slide action was a Burgess shotgun, and that is it. Very rare mechanism.

[@codymoncrief8478]

It works like a wrist-pump action. I would bet that the feeding mechanisn on the early gun pulled the cartridge back on the opening stroke, then elevated it at the end, similar to a tube-magazine follower but actuated by the handle instead of a spring

[@sarjim4381]

Holy Cow! Rock Island is valuing the first example up to $16,000 and the second at up to $12,000! Those seem like amazing prices for unidentified rifles with zero provenance.

[@Jesses001]

I am glad someone found the patent information on these. Great work.

[@kindajustanidiot9833]

Looking at the trigger guards I would have expected they were lever action rifles before seeing the title, the first gun basically makes a bullpup rifle but with the slide not a magazine

[@blinkventure6497]

top notch! very professional control of laughter

[@JC622Kilo57J]

These gats are, if anything, probably chambered in .30-03 or a derivative of 7mm Mauser rather than .30-06. If these are toolroom prototypes by Samuel McClean featuring his patents which were applied for in 1896 and granted in 1898 and 1903, those would be the most likely types of ammunition available to him.

[@Huntersinthesky]

I have to wonder if those buttons are something like "grip safeties". "Depress this to fire the gun" sort of deals

[@andrewostrelczuk406]

Ian I have looked at my Copy of; Stanbard Catalog of Military Firearms, the Collector's Price and Reference Guide. 7th Edition, [PHILIP PETERSON] NOT a total Ringer for your Mystery guns... however the butt plate looks possible for Model 91 Dragoon (Finland) pg 85. Barrel band is another one. Seams that this was a purpose built gun that may have a story behind it. Just a wild stab at it for a one armed shooter, who lost the use of an arm. The more complicated first version you showed,could very well be operated by a person with a single arm. I've seen leaver actions operated this way and a daisy bb gun copy of the model 1894 I'm proud to say was one I perfected with either arm ... but not with out loosing some chunks of flesh, while practicing from fingers and hand bites... again it was A BB gun.

[@TallifTallonbrook]

to load you have to pull the follower forward to load rounds then pull down and slide back to cover and add spring to the rounds you put in. There is an actual feed arm that when the side is off you can see, it is not attached to anything under the cover but it goes forward into the magazine well and in theory would pull a round back much like in a lever action spring would.

[@klanceyshane6275]

Actually a really cool idea a reverse pump/lever gun if this went into production I would own one.

[@Hiliori]

I think that the latch on the slide of the first gun probably was there for a "rapid" fire method, you latch the thing on the trigger and use the slide to fire without using the trigger.

[@jussayinmipeece1069]

Idea. That long finger that moves when you push that square button has Sort of a hook at the end. Seems that that will mate with the other 90 degree surface that slides back and forth above it. That in turn would then pull a cartridge backwards into the elevator.

[@leakahoshi5049]

in the old prototype, the latch infront of the trigger on the left side is for locking the slider, based on the internal latch shape and internal reloader shape. it is strange for both of these doesn't have trigger function, most likely it is manufactured illegaly and got caught by some official.

[@kevinlytle6215]

That rod that does nothing looks like it has a perfect hole in the bolt group and when you see the other end in the magazine area it is the ram or pull to move the round into the lifting mechanism. It also looks like the switch/lever that affects the rod is to allow the lifter to remain up and possibly open enough to allow hand feeding single rounds while leaving the magazine full or if your needing to single shot till you can load the mad... that's my take on it. Very cool design.

[@Andyk0017]

For all of those wondering neither of these are technically bullpups because the actions are above the trigger instead of behind

[@charlieray2751]

I'm thinking that the old version's mechanism was supposed to be that you would hold the slide and trigger with your right hand, and your left hand would rest behind it.

[@NoName-zz9ls]

These guns are badass! I especially love the earliest one. Would look right at home in Bioshock

[@phantom12321800]

I wonder if "grandpa gunmaker" took the trigger mechanism out because he was not confident it was safe to fire at it's current place in development

[@kaptunkordan6656]

it would also be interesting to see how a design like this would have held up during a trials test

[@YouListenToMeNow]

If they would put a pistol grip on it instead of that wooden block, and a straight stock, i assume this would be a pretty interesting rapid firing rifle.

[@hangman2869]

I don’t know why, these look beautiful

[@bobsenior9218]

The second rifle looks like it might have been fitted with a tube magazine under the barrel but that's just a guess. Certainly interesting and a great illustration of the enormous variety of actions that can be dreamed up to make a weapon unique and patentable.

[@TheKingnothingugm]

The early prototype...the unknown rod looks like it was designed to “ride” the bolt carrier. There’s enough space to allow the bolt to unlock before the loader rod (unknown rod) is actuated by the bolt carrier. At that point the loader rod would travel rearward with the bolt carrier approximately the length of a .30-06 or similar round before the elevator is actuated to lift the cartridge. I’d bet money I don’t have that was the way the early prototype was designed to operate.

[@watercoinzero]

Totally calling a Meiji restoration trails example, an early Arisaka competitor would be built from blueprints by what became the Tokyo Electric Company, maybe a war trophy from factory disarmament. No markings for violating patents as a one off.

[@avitus5770]

They may not be functional rifles, but damn do their bolts make a satisfying sound

[@bitfreakazoid]

Notice the cam track has a hole in the diamond area. I wonder if that metal bar that comes from the front is actually supposed to connect there, and that that is how it pulls a cartridge from the front.

[@0115Heather]

Maybe there is no pusher. Perhaps the bottom of the bolt head grabs the rim of the next cartridge and drags it back as you open the action, and that is why there is a slight delay before the follower pops up. To make sure the cartridge is seated all the way into the split fingers on the lifter? I’m certainly no expert but that is my take on this strange but unique design.

[@Stoney3K]

If you invert this design back to front you pretty much have the layout of modern tube-fed pump action shotguns. Makes me wonder why they had the idea of having the action handle in the rear grip in the first place.

[@MicMcCabe]

It's videos like this which make this such an interesting channel. Thank you.

[@yankeeredneck7229]

And you should really try to get as many snap caps into your collection as you possibly can all different weird calibers and stuff that'd be so cool if you could do that that way whenever you get one of these guns you can figure out what it is and run and go through it cuz I think this would look awesome if you could run a few rounds through it to see how they action work

[@Omnihil777]

Awesome to see the progress in thought and making of these prototypes, love that. If I'd do things like that I'd mark it with my name/date in a hidden place, under the buttplate etc