The Marines' First SMG: 1921/28 Thompson Gun

[@The_Viscount]

One of my friends has a great story about these from his dad. In 1942, my friend's dad was in boot for the US Army. The drill instructor was in the process of teaching everyone how to shoot. This one guy, old to be a volunteer (28 years old), was a big guy and a bit cocky. He obviously wasn't listening, so he gets given a Springfield to test his marksmanship. 5 shots all miss. They hand him an M1 Garand, and he misses every shot. Drill instructor hands him a 1911. Again, he hits nothing. At this point, the rest of the trainees are chuckling at how inept a shooter mr. Hotshot is. The drill instruinstructor just sighs and says, "well, I shouldn't even bother with this, but regulations say I gotta test you on the Tommy gun, so here." Hotshot smiles, loads the gun, racks the bolt, and points the gun downrange. He empties the magazine for a perfect group. The trainees stop laughing and the drill instructor looks on stunned. "Do that again," says the instructor as he hands him another magazine. So he does. Perfect group. Still in shock, and wanting to be sure, the instructor hands him a 3rd magazine. Again, the hotshot gets a perfect group. At this point, everyone is just looking on amazed. The drill instructor turns to this guy and just asks, "Son, what did you do before you joined the Army?" It turns out that when he was 12, this guy had gotten a job as a Guard on one of Al Capone's trucks. He had been shooting Tommy Guns since the age of 12. Needless to say, he became the squad's Tommy Gunner.

[@briand.reynolds474]

That's an awesome story, thank you for sharing it!

[@jd.3493]

Cite your sources please.

[@colinwolff4930]

@@jd.3493 "Cite your sources" Dude literally said it was a story from a family friend. What, do you want a britannica article??

[@iankiller1]

@@colinwolff4930 Perhaps, I think he's a robot

[@jackremington8888]

Whoooow dude amazing cool

[@ThZuao]

Model of 192B

[@JakeAnthony98]

Thauã Aguirre Model of 192🅱️

[@coppeis]

Full stop 🅱️lease

[@sobasicallyimbillcooper4543]

Jake Anthony yes

[@michaelbritt7609]

🅱️lish

[@therideneverends1697]

can i get a Bepis with that?

[@lordDenis16]

"Labour negotiating tools" made my day

[@DruidicRifleman]

Watch the Riot control ammo video

[@awesomekitty89]

Yea, Al Capone was doing it pretty well

[@eVVigilance]

Come for the guns, stay for the highbrow intellectual history jokes. Never change, Ian.

[@GTAMAN561]

I think the quote was actually "Labor negotiating tools"

[@lordDenis16]

Possibly, I'm a Brit, so I still use the 'u' everywhere ;)

[@Frankntooth]

This channel makes me happy.

[@Gliese380]

this and the smell of napalm in the morning

[@Jamie-dw2jj]

This channel gives me wood brother all hail the gun JESUS 🤗

[@briand.reynolds474]

And sad... Daddy wants a Tommy 😭 !!!

[@216Ronin]

The P.D. I retired from had eight 21/28 over stamp guns. They were bought for us by Bethlehem Steel in the 30's for "labor negotiations" as you so aptly phrased it. Believe there is still one left in the armory...the rest were traded over the years for newer (at the time) equipment.

[@blankeny]

Can you imagine trading a Thompson in on an AR-15, fantastic plastic rifle?

[@pegzounet]

And the lord and saviour gun jesus opened the second book of thomson. And among the comments, the people rejoiced.

[@searinggravy7047]

lets give gun jesus an amen

[@Qloke]

praise be!

[@Pandaninja70]

is this from Far Cry 4 when you meet that weapons trafficer/Pastor guy and he recites the Bible?

[@Ataraxia_Atom]

Amen gun jesus

[@franciscoschwarz6451]

🙏🤣

[@maxsmodels]

My family acquired a 1928 from the Jacksonville PD in the 70s. It was a hoot to shoot but was sold a long time ago. Now it is worth about $13,000 plus.

[@jonrunnells8127]

Full auto 1921-1928 originals go for $25k and up. Semiauto is best.

[@craigthescott5074]

If it was a Colt it’s worth a lot more than $25K.

[@marmadukewinterbotham2599]

You can why they were so expensive; the high level of fit and finish on all the cast and machined parts is incredible and must have taken an enormous amount of skilled manpower to produce.

[@Etherion195]

It's pretty funny to imagine the confusion in the heads of the marine corps purchasing agent for these. Marine Agent: "Hey, we would like 500 modified guns" seller: "yeah, we can ship them out in 2 or 3 days, do you want a bulk delivery to one address or several small deliveries to different locations" Marine agent: "wut?"

[@DynamicDurge]

Is it possible that the use of "Tommy Guns" in film was one way of saying "these gangsters are rich". It's like seeing a mobster with a gold plated 1911, it just screams wealth. Just a guess

[@theJellyjoker]

probably, it's the equivalent (in price range) to buying a top end AR today with all the bells and whistles.

[@DumbArse]

Jeff Liggett That and Holywood prefers weapons that have an easy outline because they look cooler, and nothing get's simpler than a big chunk of metal with grips. (Check out "Ahoy" s video on them, it's realy good)

[@ennjidream4887]

well mobsters did buy Thompsons in reality because it was the only available machine gun on the market gangsters are the type to buy jewelry and Cadillacs so 200$ for a lead hose isn't that much of a stretch most vermin just used revolvers and shotguns but made men? Thompsons.

[@zachthompson8688]

@@ennjidream4887 Actually most gangsters like Dillon,Nelson and Bonnie and Clyde didn't purchase their Thompsons they robbed national guard armories and local PDs to get their Tommy Guns.

[@ennjidream4887]

true and most "gangsters" weren't made men in national crews either that's why I made the distinction. it just furthers the point that yes the perception of criminals using Thompson sub-machine guns wasn't hollywood fiction and was indeed omnipresent the specific method to obtain said thompsons by certain individuals is trivial

[@darthhodges]

To consider the cost again, straight inflation numbers mean a $200 (U.S.) gun in 1921 would cost over $2800 in 2020. Considering the income curve he mentioned, in 2020 the average American individual makes around $36000 a year from all sources ($76000 per household) which would again make it a $3000 expense today by comparison. It was the FN SCAR of its day.

[@blankeny]

I purchased my 27 Thompson about twenty years ago and paid $1,200.00 for the the weapon, I believe a full auto would be in the $50,000-57,000.00 range maybe more, today...

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

@@blankeny >>> For full auto, you have to _"PAY to PLAY."_ 😉

[@blankeny]

@@Allan_aka_RocKITEman Isn't that what I stated???

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

@@blankeny >>> I was just trying to be a bit facetious. _"Don't quit your day job."_ Yeah, heard it. MORE THAN ONCE... 😉

[@dannya951]

I've really enjoyed this extended, deep-dive format to provide more historical context. I hope more of these get produced in the future.

[@welshy4638]

When Ian said over stamped at the beginning I thought great i'm going to learn about a different style of gun manufacture. Probably a way Thompson figured to make the gun cheaper to make. I was wrong, every day is a school day.

[@1973honza]

Today buying a SMG for just a month salary would be a bargain.

[@alecingram4669]

1973honza depends what the salary is. If you’re earning 25k a year maybe it’s a little pricey but if you’re earning a million bucks a year from a business it isn’t too much.

[@system3870]

You can thank Charley Rangle for his last-second zealousness.

[@mosser-wm3dx]

@@offchance789 i got to use a bump stock for the first time the other day. It worked a lot better than i thought but does compromise control a little bit because of how it works

[@ThetaReactor]

Adjusting for inflation, the Thompson was a $3000 gun. That also drives home how exorbitant the $200 NFA tax was at the time. In 1935, a civilian buying a Thompson would be paying what you'd pay for a cheap MAC-11 today.

[@mg4956]

@@offchance789 bump stocks and trigger mods don't convert guns into full auto though. They just increase the speed at which you can pull the trigger.

[@keystone117]

Using an inflation calculator, $200 in 1925 is $2,939 in 2019. It's a bargain!!

[@scriptsmith4081]

Sorry- $200 was 10 ounces of gold in 1925- that would be more like $20,000 today.

[@McLarenMercedes]

​@@scriptsmith4081 Yes, but they moved away from the gold standard with the "Nixon shock" in 1971. Back in 1925 it was still important to peg the value of the dollar to gold but following WWII it became less and less viable since it was widely known even the vast U.S. gold reserves were merely a fraction of the amount of dollars in banks. Therefore the "Nixon shock" was several years in the making. Also, gold prices (as in its relative market value) have changed a lot too since 1925 which is why it's rather arbitrary to try and compare the 1925 value of the dollar to 2021 gold prices.

[@OlujaDoTokija]

First the WW I-interwar-WW II german MP smgs, then the AK-47-AKM series and now the Thompson series. You are spoiling us Ian!

[@unfa00]

The original Thompson had a rate of fire at 800 RPM, which equates to 13 Hz (800 / 60 = 13). I wanted to hear how fast that is. I'm a sound guy, so I used a sawtooth oscillator (sound generator) to play at that frequency, and oh boy - did it give me The Godfather shivers!

[@pgsahlman]

Ian, your historical accounts are just as interesting, if not more, than the guns themselves. I love your videos!!!

[@denysbeecher5629]

One of these was the first full auto gun I had the opportunity to shoot. Nice to learn some more detail

[@meteorblades8044]

Absolutely love your eloquent, factually dense analysis of these and other weapons. Delivered with panache.

[@buddafingaz9403]

By far, this is my all-time favorite gun forever! It's got major history, & its been used on the streets, for gangsters, & coppers, plus, its been used for military, as well too! This gun has been around since 1917-1918, I think, & its still feared today, & still reliable today. Even the old original guns are reliable today, as well. This gun never gets old for me! 🔫🔫👍🙏

[@Adro-sp]

Beautiful gun, stylish AF, one of my favorite since I was a kid. That muzzle looks like something out of Buck Rogers

[@normmcrae1140]

My Dad was a Tanker in the Canadian Army in 42-45.... Issued with a Tommy Gun in Theatre (Italy, France & Low Countries). Undoubtedly wartime production - apparently they were .38 calibre, too.... I've also seen pictures of a unit of the Calgary Police (Canada) with Tommy Guns in the '30's.

[@GrumblingGrognard]

This series, absolutely rocks. Would love to see more of this type.

[@SlimRhyno]

"Labor Negotiating Tools." Hah! Ian, you sir, are the freakin' man. The guys and gals are going to loooove that in the War Room on Monday morn. Very well done... yet again. 🙏

[@darthhodges]

His comments on how the cost of the guns relates to income in the 20s made me think of the NFA, originally enacted in 1934. The $200 tax amount hasn't changed since then so NFA controlled firearms had a tax on them that in many cases exceeded the cost of the gun. If the amount had been scaled with inflation the current tax on NFA items would be over $3800. Imagine paying $500 for a cheap silencer and then paying the government $3800 and waiting 6 months to find out IF you can take it home. That's what the NFA did in 1934.

[@Klaaism]

Was also ruled unconstitional eventually. To get the stamp you had to bring in the weapon. There was no grace period so having the weapon without a stamp was illegal. Hence the whole setup was a catch 22, granted it had been designed that way intentionally as an early knee-jerk gun control reaction.

[@keithwortelhock6078]

Very interesting, Ian, as always. Something that you might be able to answer in one of the future episodes is how much a BAR was costing Police departments at the time (by way of comparison). I think it might have been one of your videos that informed me about how they were preferred by the FBI, Police and Clyde Barrow etc.

[@blankeny]

I own an A-1 1927 with two straight 30 Rnd, magazines and a 50 Rnd. drum, this weapon goes all the way on the Kool factor. It maybe heavy, unwieldly, and not economical, but I love it !!!

[@jonrunnells8127]

Ditto. 50 round drums are gangster cool but very heavy, awkward to load and fire. 30-round stick works best.

[@blankeny]

@@jonrunnells8127 I don't know, removing the cover and just dropping the rounds into the drum is a lot easier on my thumbs...

[@jonrunnells8127]

The 1928 .45 ACP Tommy fires a tight pattern. Nil to no recoil. Easy to see why it was and still is a killer weapon!

[@blankeny]

@@jonrunnells8127 In semi auto it really doesn't matter, a blow back design on a twelve pound frame doesn't move much in semi auto. And finding a full auto is akin to finding hens teeth. And @ the price for a full auto 1927 Thompson $55,000, you had better have a class III/FFL & be related to the owner to fire such a rare and expensive weapon. I'd not let anyone fire mine...

[@bend1483]

Look at the quality of the machining and the surface finish on these things. Beautifully made!

[@andreapieralli8027]

thats what most people dont notice, these were first a works of art, then a gun.

[@454pakr]

It has the "look" that makes my eyes widen and a big smile come to my face.

[@rasubosu355]

You sir is the sage of gun craftsmanship knowledge

[@two_owls]

Interesting that the mistaken perception that crime was rising to crisis levels spurred police interest in heavier equipment like the Thompson. Sounds markedly similar to what's been happening more recently. Historical parallels are fun!

[@two_owls]

Interesting. A few questions about that statistic and its importance: Is Chicago representative of the country in general? Is murder rate a good measurement of 'crime' in general? How was murder even defined in 1920s Chicago vs contemporary Chicago? More broadly, is a more militarized police force going to stop these murders from happening? I would also note that the murder rate in the US in 1950 was 4.6 per 100,000; in 2014 it was 4.5 per 100,000. Obviously 1950 is not 1920, but the impression that I think is generally shared is that the 1950s were a safer time, certainly than the 1920 and the height of gangsterism. It would seem that contemporary America is at least as safe as the Golden Age of American prosperity... www.infoplease.com/us/crime/homicide-rate-1950-2014

[@jimmydesouza4375]

Thing is though, the modern "militarization" of police isnt due to a mistaken perception. Things like the hollywood shootout, the Dallas riots and police executions, etc.

[@TBeermonster]

@Alfred Strickert knife crime in the UK suffers the same exaggeration OP refers to. In 2017 there were 39.5k offenses involving a knife or sharp object. This includes offences in which a knife or sharp object was used to threaten but not harm. That's about 59 offences per 100,000 population. Homicides are obviously much lower than this with 296 homicides using a knife or sharp object compared to 736 homicides total (including terrorist attacks). So knife or sharp object homicide runs at about 4.5 per million population.

[@TBeermonster]

@Alfred Strickert a mix of left-wing do-gooders, right-wing authoritarians and venal politicians wanting to be seen to be doing something. There are problems, no non-zero number of homicides is acceptable, but the overwhelming majority of people have nothing to concern themselves. If you happen to be a member of a London gang under the age of 25 who routinely carries a knife yourself then yeah, you probably have cause to be concerned.

[@RushBuzzing]

In Turkish prisons, it was common for prisoners to have their own knives, which they were expected to use as eating implements and for everyday uses such as we use pocket knives, today. As expected, the prisoners had a habit of misusing them on each other BUT as long as the stabbings were non fatal and confined to below the waist, they were shrugged off as unimportant and only minor punishments ensued. It served to keep the problems down remarkably well.

[@ArcFire_Fox]

Man, once I am able to afford it, I would love to own many of these historical firearms. Already have a nice collection of rifles from a few nations, including the M1 Garand. They are so fascinating history, and technical wise, and even more fun to shoot.

[@g24thinf]

Excellent episode Ian. I hope you mention the Model 1927 also.

[@interstellarlapisthecccp4946]

I think this is probably the most expensive to produce of the first generation SMG's. Can't really think of anything that would even come close to how much material this gun requires and how much intricate machining and additional small parts are needed, many of which are also time consuming and complicated to produce. The whole bolt assembly looks more similar to heavy industrial equipment that made it than something that belongs in a gun. The entire lower is also machined instead of just sticking it in a hollowed out piece of wood. The stock and foregrips are modular and removable. The barrel is partially ribbed with cooling fins and has really fancy compensator. The drum magazine is also cumbersome and complicated. It's kind of interesting how popular this design became given it's unnecessary complexity and cost. The Finnish KP31 had similar performance at a fraction of the cost, and I'm pretty sure you could build at least five of those in the time it takes to make one Thompson. Somehow, no design ever dethroned the Tommy gun until WW2 came around and pretty much the entire world started simplifying their guns out of necessity. I guess the whole concept stuck around after that and they never went back to making SMG's like a Swiss watch.

[@highpower3006]

I have a M1928 Thompson and while I love that thing, it is a heavy beast and pretty impractical except for very close combat.

[@TrailblazingMedia]

i am amazed at how closely my WE tech M1A1 GBB airsoft thompson copies the original , evertything is the same from the sear to most of the bolt. the propellant ofcourse doesnt come from the bullet, but from gas inside the magazine.

[@yop_cholo]

If my math is correct, it takes about 1.5 seconds to empty a 20 round magazine in full auto at 800 rounds per minute. So indeed, "pretty darn quickly". As a caveat, I'm up since 3 am and it's almost 3 pm here. Have a nice day.

[@FreeOfFantasy]

at 600 it takes 2 seconds. of cause you can do shorter bursts with the lower rate.

[@prd6617]

idk if fire rate on thompson .45 ACP have the same effect on accuracy as PPs-43 or PPD-40 7.62×25mm Tokarev, but on that gun (PPs and PPD based on Ian old vids) having higher rate of fire (800+) are more controllable than mid rate of fire (600-ish) when on full auto. although having a slower rate do allow a shorter burst or even single shot with it

[@keithwortelhock6078]

I too grabbed my calculator and came up with the same result. (9pm here in the UK and 2 glasses of wine, but I think we're good). I've never fired a Thompson, but from my experience with Sterlings, I'd say that you could probably get 3 or 4 quick bursts out of a 20 round mag.

[@mbr5742]

@@keithwortelhock6078 Back in the 80s we where able to get 3-5 round bursts from H&K G3 service rifles on full auto with some training. So sounds doable for other guns

[@Billy97ify]

@@keithwortelhock6078 Long ago I took a section of recruits to the range to fire sterlings. Very few hits on target and most weapons were empty before the shooter knew what was happening. Some people can hit something with smgs with a lot of training, but they are not a really useful weapon in a life and death situation.

[@andrewostrelczuk406]

Ian, my Dad was in the Coast guard for WWII, (he was one of the 99 CG involved in the dog and pony show, another story ) he stated many times something about a "Reising" submachine gun is that a Thompson? He told me that it would climb as you fired it. Their trick was to turn it sideways and fire it from the hip or sholder... but prone position he said would make you a neat pile of brass handwarmers... put in a sock it would warm the chill right out of your hands and gave you a handy sort of club... (a Blackjack?) He was on shore patrol on Bulls Island on the south Carolina coast, later he was on a converted Laker the W.M. Fitch that was owned by the army crewed by the Coast Guard and ordered around by the Navy. The ship was a floating repair shop... and Toyko Rose had their number LOL... flank speed was 8 Knots... a brisk walking pace. In the Philippines he was also the skippers security and taxi... they had repaired and refitted a LCVP with twin Chrysler Marine engines. Landing Craft Vehicles and Personal. Enough for now. Thanks again for the wisdom shared... let me know what you know or can find out about the Reising.

[@truebornsonofliberty554]

At retail prices, outside of inflated NFA prices, they’d sell 15,000 of these in 15 minutes today.

[@norwegianwiking]

Probably would retail for 5K or up for a new mfg. today. Ian should do some stuff on how guns used to be made, and how machine and labour intensive it used to be.

[@therideneverends1697]

If you look at inflation and the cost of goods today in modern money one of these would seem to have gone for about 10,000 dollars today. Of corse conventonal inflation rates would put that at 2765 as of 1921 but when you look at the average cost of goods it suddenly swings way higher

[@suryantisepawi1537]

True Born Son Of Liberty wanna buy this one

[@EncrypticMethods]

@@therideneverends1697 Damn this is a late reply but, Im pretty sure from 2015-2018 an old thompson sold for like 38k usd and the reasons are in law. It was a pre ban machine gun grandfathered in.

[@DreadnoughtHvor]

@@EncrypticMethods Thompsons in general run from 20-30k. Usually anyway. There are outliers, but that's the typical price range for them.

[@SamSalsa411]

Can you please make a video comparing these to the modern Auto Ordnance Thompson's? It would be really cool!

[@giantpune]

The guts inside the lower frame are completely different. And the guts inside the receiver, bolt, and firing pin are all very different. The furniture looks similar, but is different and not interchangeable. In the modern simi auto 1927a-1 version... - The actuator handle is just a little stub of a handle. It inserts into a hole in the bolt. - There are 2 recoil springs, one on each side. - The firing pin is like 8" long and a zigzag shape. There's a round cylindrical hunk of metal that's the hammer. It sits behind one of the bends in the firing pin. The hammer also holds the charging handle in the bolt. - There's a 3rd spring that holds tension against the hammer and firing pin - The trip and the pawl are the parts that lock the bolt back on an empty magazine or when using the 3rd hand tool. They function similarly to the full auto version, but are shaped differently - When you pull the trigger, the trigger lifts the lifter and the lifter then rocks the sear backwards which releases the firing pin. Then as the bolt travels rearward, the bolt pushes the disconnector down and the disconnector pushes the lifter down. That allows the sear to rock forward and catch the bolt as it keeps traveling backwards. - The safety works the same as on the full auto version. Its a semicircular rod running across the receiver right behind the sear. When the rod is rotated to the safe position, the semicircle fits into a recess in the back of the sear and prevents it from tilting rearward. - The fancy lyman rear sight is not adjustable for windage, only elevation. - The bar that supports the front grip is a different size. - The mag catch is slightly different. You have to use a file if you want to use original stick mags on a newer model. - I have not verified it, but just from looking at the 2 examples in this series, the profile of the back of the buttstock is different. It seems like mine is significantly more sloped than the originals. - Barrel length on the new pistols and SBR models is 10.5 with the pinned compensator. Other models are a 14.5" barrel with the compensator machined into the barrel so it legally brings the length up to 16.5" and then 16.5" with the compensator pinned in place which brings the length to ~18". - The frame from a full auto will not mate onto a simi-auto model. The rails are a different size. - The new models have the ejector mounted on a 45 degree angle on the left. On some (all?) of the full auto models, the ejector is on the left side, not on an angle. - The compensator and the muzzle end of the barrel are not threaded. - The rear sight is held on with screws I'm sure there are some other things I forgot here. Basically, the only parts of the guns that are the same are maybe the grip screws and stock screws and the sling swivels.

[@stelioeffrena1571]

Nowadays there are quite a few guns that are in the $1500-2500 range (usually not for a good reason) and that is definitely a month worth of salary for a lot of people. Doesn't seem to be stopping anybody from buying them. Goes to show how times and priorities have changed...

[@Celebmacil]

At $200, this weapon would have cost closer to $3,000 (relative) in 1921 or 1928. Of course, buying one in 1934 would have been nearly $4,000, and with the additional tax stamp fee would have been equal to nearly $8,000 today, assuming the retail on the gun itself remained $200.

[@Luhkewarm]

Celebmacil so the same as one used 308 SCAR in California lol

[@Billy97ify]

You should take into account that it is nearly impossible to hit anything with one and it is empty almost immediately, even when slowed down to 6rounds/second. If anyone tested them they would question the purchase. They look good and scary and are great in the movies, but not very useful. What were the police doing with them? Shooting cars?

[@tacticalwizard7476]

@@Billy97ify yes see other video that states that they needed a new gun that deal/penetrate with the robustness of the cars at the time, plus it is much easier to hit a car doing 90 with a machine gun.

[@Billy97ify]

@@tacticalwizard7476 That is something that is needed very often. You can probably hit a house with one too.

[@theweppe27official]

The best gun to take with on your adventures into the Skull Island where you fight against velociraptors to save that damsel in distress.

[@RushBuzzing]

Interesting side note (for some), one variant of the Thompson (before they managed to sell any).fired at a rate of 1500 rpm.

[@robrosen7291]

Pre-NFA sales of the Thompson in Wyoming and other States in the American West were steady, if not high volume. Ranchers found them to be an effective tool for Coyote control.

[@therideneverends1697]

seems like a logical reason to buy one frankly, i know alot of ranchers now use AR15s, some full auto to keep wild boar from destroying there crops

[@ThomasBaxter]

Awesome series, really enjoying the history

[@amandastevenson4948]

Yes Ian I'm watching them all in order

[@MrAlumni72]

Growing up in the 1960s, our cub scout den got a tour of the new police headquarters - including their Thompson sub-machine gun. Only one. But here in (at that time) rural NJ I guess that was enough, although I guess they'd had it since way back when. I'm assuming they still have it stashed away somewhere.

[@loupiscanis9449]

Thank you , Ian .

[@MadScientist512]

More mass on a spring moving slower is a basic physics principle so its application here should've been obvious even back then, although a stiffer spring working in the opposite direction tends to tends to suggest that the designers were either not aware of it or had some other reason to make that change.

[@robertreisner6119]

Oddly our 1928 Thompson does have the 8 over stamped but lacks the US Navy stamp and no secondary serial number. It's early history is unknown, however it came into our family thru my grandfather and passed to my dad around 1968. In 1981 when grampa passed in his 101st year, his will left the gun to myself. Since dad is still alive in his 91st year I am content to let his keep it until he passes it on to me. I remember the stamped serial number starts with a 1 but that is all I rember since it has been many years since I have seen it. Thanks for your video on this it does help knowing possibly why there is an over stampred 8 above the 1 original stamp. The magazines are stick not drum types and are chambered for the Colt .45 ACP.

[@Taistelukalkkuna]

Part 3 : Thompson sells out! Wait....That came out wrong.

[@Sn0wdawgz]

The original "street sweeper".

[@eamonnandphyllis]

Some of the Thompson submachine guns in museums in Ireland have very low serial numbers 021 etc.

[@jonrunnells8127]

Love my 1927 A1 Chicago Typewriter! A brawny, very sweet firing weapon!

[@ChiTownGuerrilla]

Man this gun has to be hard to get a sight picture while firing looking through that bolt moving back and forth!

[@scurlcube]

Really like these, good work Ian!

[@acefromouterspace3681]

I just wanted to ask, and this is open to everyone with knowledge on the subject, but on your 1921 Thompson video you mentioned that Auto Ordnance went on a European tour, including Spain. Now I've recently found out that Thompson's were present during the Spanish Civil War and, as an amateur historian of the conflict, I was wondering whether they would be the 1921 or the 1928 pattern, or whether it was an even later model. It would make sense that the 1921 model was bought due to the proximity of said tour, but another logical path would be that either model was bought up by the new Republican government in 1931 in an effort to modernise the Spanish military. Sorry for the length, but I figured this is the best place to ask, since my research has come up with nothing specific

[@davidsachs4883]

The overstamp 1928 were modified for the navy and the guns used in Spain were probably not USA surplus. As there were still over 4000 unsold 1921s in 1938 we can safely guess there would probably be standard 1921.

[@acefromouterspace3681]

Ah ok, so the overstamp never made it overseas. That narrows it down a lot haha, thank you :) And I have only ever caught glimpses of them in action, the only concrete proof I had was an image and stock-sheet of a load of arms captured by French border guards when some elements of the Catalonian and Republican army fled across the border. In that, there were several Thompson's of unknown model. The only thing that pointed me to these early ones was the fact they had the distinct foregrip.

[@charlesdaniel6503]

Hello im a subscriber and really enjoy your channel. I have a nice collection of class 3 firearms, in my top 5 my thompson is def up there. As much as i wished it was a colt 1921a with no comp i had to settle for a auto ordnance 28 model. In one of your comments you said that the blish lock did nothing for the functioning of the gun. I know with the m1 they dropped the feature but had no clue that the brass blish lock did nothing. Can you explain this in more detail? Thanks, charles

[@petehall889]

Love my 1928 Thompson - one of the last guns I would ever sell from my collection.

[@gregfair1749]

The Thompson "Tommy Gun" submachinegun is my all time A#1 favorite submachinegun!!!!

[@raffyc66]

Fascinating! Thanks!

[@lenheinz6646]

And ironically, motor bandits turned to raiding local police department arms lockers to get their Thompsons. It would be interesting to know the sources of guns that wound up in criminal hands--private sales, corrupt law enforcement, raids on armories, etc.

[@therideneverends1697]

then how many later got regestered by there children during ammnesty

[@kentracy47]

"The Blish lock principle has been much debated, there is now scientific study which shows that there are forces of static friction."

[@DustyCruz]

Costs about 2 million pesetas and never runs out of ammo. My kind of gun.

[@SirWaffleKnight]

2 million what? Is that some kind of fake monopoly money? LOL

[@00vondough00]

That's from Resident Evil 4 my friend.

[@mr.angryman3599]

Caged Elephant pesetas are coins

[@searinggravy7047]

@@SirWaffleKnight thats the old Spanish currency before they switched to the euro

[@ThZuao]

Stranger! Stranger! Now, THAT's a weapon!

[@datsuna6585]

T T H T H O T H O M T H O M P TOMMY GUN

[@tonylam9548]

I was in Macau in the early 60s and remember a policeman carrying a Thompson with the shoulder strap. Macau was a Portuguese colony at the time. I know it is a Thompson for I had a toy cap firing Thompson which were scaled down in size to fit children.

[@rrfields65]

Good! You just answered my question from the last video. @ 9:06

[@tykellerman6384]

Thanks Ian another great video

[@vettekid3326]

Thompsons stayed in police inventories usually until the late 1960's or early 70's because they were of pistol caliber and were "safer" than full power rifle caliber weapons like surplus BAR's and such.

[@snowdogs01]

The Rowan County, NC Sheriff's office "discovered two Thompsons in their armory in 2013. Consigned them to auction and got $$$. They were originally purchased to safeguard local mills' payday cash, and incase of "insurrection".

[@axelpatrickb.pingol3228]

At least those were found much later than 1970. Most Government Tommy guns were scrapped in the 70's for obsolescence.

[@SusCalvin]

1960's is a decade before western Europe starts to see the first SWAT units, with regular training in and access to paramilitary equipment. Local police was getting these things?

[@jonrunnells8127]

Texas gun ranges classify .45 ACP semiauto Thompsons as pistol-caliber weapons. A great accessory to a 9 mil, 38 S&W or .45 Colt.

[@jannisschmidt3167]

I've been wondering for a while now, with it obviously being known that the Thompson had substantial muzzle climb and the measures taken against that (lower firing rate/muzzle break), why did no one consider giving it a streighter stock? It obviously wouldn't have been hard to build replacement pieces with that already existing quick detach method, and looking at the existing one it wouldn't be more expensive. It just makes no sense to me...

[@keithwortelhock6078]

I think you'd need a different set of sights for a straight stock, to cope with the eye-relief.

[@tombickers]

"Hold low, squeeze, and put your man down, because he will do the same!"

[@cam4636]

Motorized Gangster Bandits is my band name. "The Rise of the _____" is our first album. Anyway, every part of this video is worth 1000x more than every channel of dudebros in camo gaiters firing into the distance and claiming it's awesome, just trust them, it'd be so cool if you were the one holding the gun

[@ChiTownGuerrilla]

I love this series so much! The Thompson just has that awesome WW2 look. Plus being from Chicago this gun is special to me.

[@MrRiccardo1965]

the finishing it is superb for a military smg

[@philshea7525]

Be nice to have seen it out on the range

[@joemama397]

Well,the old venerable Thompson SMG

[@ultrablue2]

Ian, another excellent video. A bit off-topic, but are you planning on posting your S&W M76 on KZbin?

[@sobasicallyimbillcooper4543]

1921 Thompson my favorite gun

[@johnknierim9017]

Almost same gun except for putting a heaver bolt in it to to slow it down, so the Navy would purchase it.

[@dominicseybert6222]

I own one and I love it

[@LOUDcarBOMB]

Does anyone else feel that the Thompson stock feels weird when shouldering it (bringing the gun up to your cheek instead of bringing your cheek down to the stock)?

[@USSEnterpriseA1701]

Based on my experience when I was a teen with a licencesd airsoft M1A1 and later one of the semi-auto current production 1927A1 models, I'd say the length of pull is a bit on the long side, but otherwise I find it comfortable. The semi-auto 1927A1 with it's 16 inch barrel (as required to not be an SBR) is long and awkward and sadly the rear sight's "battle sight" setting is poorly cut (meaning a virtually non-existent rear sight notch). That being said, it is reasonably fun to shoot but is generally unreliable with the reproduction drum mag I used, the 20 and 30 round stick mags work great though. Original stick mags also need to have their mag catch hole opened up to be used with one of the semi-auto repros, which does mean they no longer fit an original gun.

[@alecingram4669]

LOUDcarBOMB shot some a few times on full auto and it felt alright, similar to how you put your head on the stock of an mg42. The lahti l39 on the other hand is weird to shoot.

[@nfsfanAndrew]

I'll have to borrow yours and find out.

[@RushBuzzing]

I'm tall w/a long neck. The Thompson felt short to me but better than the M 16 which shoved the sights in too close for comfort. The Tommy had some drop to the butt which felt more natural and the head was more upright. Still could have been a few inches longer IMO.

[@therideneverends1697]

haveing fired one, yeah these are ergonomically awfull, the grip is actually really nice but the stock design is flat bad, i think they where going for looks over function because the slope of the shoulder plate is the exact opposite direction of what you would want it to be, instead of keeping the gun from drooping in your shoulder it attempts to push it off your shoulder

[@TheSuperHybrid80]

That Thompson sales guy must have been partying like grazy when WW2 Gous full swing Finaally ...

[@roberthunton8175]

Pretty boy floyd used to remove the foregrip and the butt of a thompson and use it like a super pistol

[@dphalanx7465]

Ian! When are you going to do a show on the ultra-rare 1923 Military Model Thompson in .45 Remington-Thompson? There's maybe a 1/2 dozen in existance, all over in foriegn military museums (France, Germany, Russia, one of the Scandinavians, to name a few).

[@andrewwaterman9240]

No sling swivels? It seems like I've seen 1928's with swivels. Were they sometimes added by unit armorers in the field?

[@SnarkyPosters]

$200 in 1928 dollars is the equivalent of about $2,949.08 today. But if you bought it with ten $20 gold coins, the value of just the gold is now $26,189.40.

[@garyhansen6457]

The Thompson SMG saved my Dad's life in WWII on the island of Morotai. If you wand to hear about it, go on Amazon and type "The Rising Sun Sets" in the search box, the click on the word "Listen" under the photo of the cover. It is a Free copy of the Audio Book.

[@גבריאל1994]

Best looking gun ever.

[@ryanstevens1855]

They were also sold in hardware stores and marketed toward ranchers.

[@waltlars3687]

In 1975 I traveled to Guatemala on a student trip We went to Tekal to where the Temple of the Sun and Moon were as seen in the first Star Wars rebel base the Federal police or National were equipped with them

[@roberthunton8175]

This is my favorite of the thompsons

[@Riazor1370]

Thanks for the gangster members which soon gonna clear the Thompson SMG from Auto Ordn'ce inventory.

[@kingofhogwarts9499]

Were there any companys that sold mp-18 based smgs in the us at the time? How much would they have cost? Looks like a cheaper design to me and I guess te Mp-18 or Mp-28 would have been totally capable to deliver everything the us marines or police needed at the time.

[@colarisaka]

Fruitninja Zero The Treaty of Versailles forbade the manufacture of such weapons in Germany.

[@LOUDcarBOMB]

True, but there were German companies that owned companies outside of German borders. Rheinmetall (I believe) owned Solothurn in Switzerland to make anti-tank rifles for worldwide customers and another company made tracked tractors to then use for making tanks which then all of that knowledge was used in making stuff in Nazi Germany.

[@williamsager805]

I doubt many American's would invest in a foreign sub gun in those days. And seeing the small size of the market for sub guns, I doubt any foreign company would bring it's gun over. Indeed it might not even had been safe for some dude to go around selling Kraut Guns". Memories of WW 1 were still fresh.

[@lenheinz6646]

Guns like the MP-28 got a substantial following outside the US, but it seemed that police wanted to buy American. And while IIRC some foreign SMGs at least had prototype versions in .45 ACP, the Thompson was the go-to gun in that caliber.

[@smokeydops]

Caliber, caliber, caliber. If it wasn't in .45 ACP the Americans would not be interested at that time.

[@DoRC]

The recoil spring is actually stiffer Because its a smaller diameter. Less material of the same kind means a stiffer spring.

[@greenbroccolistudios1275]

My fav gun tho :D Thompson Gun with drum mag :) Vinnie cannoli and al capone's Favorite

[@hondansx1000]

Lovely vid as ever Ian, I have a question. Is this firearm still able to fire on full auto? I know the US is techy about selling fully auto fire arms...just wondered if that extended to old weapons as well

[@iancornell141]

Definitely full auto. Any full auto gun made before 1986 can be transferred with the proper tax stamp. This one will probably sell for $20,000 to $50,000

[@shawnr771]

@@iancornell141 Much more than an average months salary.

[@ashwinrajpal]

Please shoot one, would be great to see it in action

[@joshcraig1441]

It would be cool seeing the two different fire rates in the shooting video

[@edi9892]

I know a lot of people that make 2000-4000 a month and I'm pretty sure that this corresponds to the price of new AR and precision rifles. So that sounds a lot more reasonable than a Tommy gun for the price of a car (which can easily be 15x a months salary).