WAP and the Spectacle of Sexual Liberation

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[@ForHarriet619]

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[@appealingtodasenses]

I literally play WAP to get on my (male) landlord nerves, but it is not my cup of tea and there was a hesitancy to embrace it as feminist movement and you articulated my thoughts and feelings perfectly.

[@obscurity87]

what was the author you mentioned ..supreme bey? looking for her writings

[@karlwilliams8625]

Have women really excused men to do what they want on tracks or are they now using it against men everyday as a "You hate us" , "you owe us" and "You're misogynists" card?

[@harrytimmy5070]

Just wanted to tell you that I subscribed to your channel because my name is also Harriet

[@sinlifemedia4759]

Yes in the strip club, men will ask black [or black looking] women to do a whole lot more for a whole lot less. In black strip clubs, you are expected to perform to your ultimate best on the pole, ariel hoop and whatever is provided. The black women also act like pick mes. It's about who bounces it the hardest and who got the most attention. They consider girls that work at white clubs getting money for sitting and sipping champagne "lazy". Cardi B also went publicly about the stripperbowl saying if she is ready to throw money, you better be bouncing that a** so it's nobody's fault but the black community. In a white club, a white guy will ask you to sit and talk with him and move slower. Please believe the audience is there in the event that black people want to be viewed differently. The only people that look for the "pick me" behavior are other black people (and Spanish people).

[@claudiaalmeida3655]

"So many of the images that we elevate as being the epitome of empowerment look exactly like images that come out of the male imagination" THIS has finally expressed this uneasiness that I've been feeling and couldn't quite put my finger to it.

[@VPFF-1]

In this day and age, women can only be empowered by their bodies, while men get to do it with their work, their mind and careers, ya know, getting actual, real power.

[@treacherousjslither6920]

@@VPFF-1 Come on you know that's not true. Many powerful women have existed throughout history and they didn't gain their power through sex. Sex is merely something that many women realize they can capitalize on (in a way that many men can't) and they then choose to do so.

[@niickio8250]

Valentina Fuentealba maybe if women weren’t constantly fed that empowerment is only received by hypersexualization, maybe more would realize that they too can be empowered. But being hypersexual can sometimes be a choice. A lot of women see other women making money off of being sexual and then they believe that it’s a better option than going out and building a career and working in institutions that bring real power.

[@TheDailyMundane]

EXACTLY👏👏👏👏

[@dianevanderlinden3480]

@Chumnley snoop Even my dog has a WAP I guess. At least sometimes!

[@usernameheath]

“It’s a shiny box, and it’s a sexy box, and it’s a fun box - but it’s still a box.” The irony, too funny.

[@smilergal89]

Haha

[@nicolelewis6312]

Yep, it's still a box.

[@choklitfactory]

That's my favourite line as well. The truth HURTS.

[@Jailyn]

This line HIT.

[@SinisterXRouge]

"Could it be that we are encouraging women to lie about their empowerment, while leaving women to fend for themselves in a misogynistic culture?" w o a h. I literally had to pause the video to take that all in.

[@ima.m.1658]

I don’t know if I agree with this. I think what matters is who’s in control and who has the power. If women objectify themselves by their own choice, they are owning a part of their femininity w/o men being part of the picture. It’s not for the male gaze, it’s for themselves and they are in control. (Also, a few African cultures’ dances that inspired twerking were done to celebrate women’s bodies and for spiritual reasons - shaking and emphasizing their butts was normal)

[@ExoticYoni23]

I mean they dont cook or clean....or thats what was said....

[@nox6687]

@@ima.m.1658 Well yeah, but I feel like the problem is that they're objectifying themself through a viewpoint that is attractive to males. And they're only allowed to do it in a way that is endorsed by males. While men may not be directly involved, it is the underlying force behind those actions. Can you really be in control while operating in a box?

[@womp3571]

@@nox6687 i think a direct example of this is many women finding themselves prone to shaving even though they know they dont have to, "i just think its icky on me but u can do it" we dont think abt w hy we think its icky. its scary in situations where we think we're liberated but in reality the effect of gender norms and patriarchy are more subtle and harder to distinguish, its like a trap

[@ishma2100]

@@ima.m.1658 this is so sick. I could bet you're not Christian

[@mchlle94]

"A lot of women feel think sexual liberation is the ability to be desired by men on their terms" YES PREACH

[@mimmopopo5960]

It was feminism that said slutiness is empowering. A return to Christ is necessary.

[@GabybelieberMcCan]

@@mimmopopo5960 shut up religion has harm woman a thousand times more than modern feminist

[@Mysteriuminiquitatis1998]

@@mimmopopo5960 I think people twisted it that way. You should never feel shame for being your sexual self and showing that off. You don’t have to be “slutty” but it can be very liberating to comfortably express your sensuality and acknowledge that you are sexual being and do it openly. There are different layers to it though. You have those who like the “trashy” way of doing things, you have the more “elegant” way of doing it. Either way, I feel like I woman should be free to be as sexual as she pleases, as prudish or modest as she pleases, or just be a neutral person on the matter. There’s nothing wrong either way and I think that’s what feminism is getting at. The woman is in control of what she wants to do

[@TheLily97232]

@@Mysteriuminiquitatis1998but the reality is we are not there yet if we do not question the obsession with beauty, the standards etc.

[@serenity6831]

And it's not like there's a shortage of black women giving goth, ethereal, futuristic, funcadelic, poppy, upbeat, grime, the list goes on. But they're never pushed to the levels of a Taylor Swift or Cardi B. Get your bag, of course, but where's the diversity?

[@Primalintent]

Unironically can you drop some names if you know them? I want some more things to add to spotify playlists and it's hard to find anything really off the main beat unless it's, like, Japanese. Which I love 'em, if anyone wants some interesting Japanese stuff there's the "Tokyo Rising" playlist and the radios for artists there. But I think the most out of my loop artist I found on my own was Angel Haze. Anyone got recommendations for just interesting, weird, ethereal artists?

[@sydneyjael]

Maso Trumoi Khalid- “vulnerable” black man artist Umi- “soft girl” black woman music that sometimes incorporates japanese artist Rico Nasty- “goth” black woman artist Coi leray- “tomboy” black woman artist Kodie Shane- “tomboy” black woman artist FKA Twigs- “futuristic” black woman artist Kaash Paige- “tomboy” black woman artist SZA- “chill” black woman artist Daniel Caesar- “vulnerable” black male artist Donald Glover/Childish Gambino- “versatile” black male artist Pink Sweat$- “vulnerable” black male artist

[@saint_silver]

Being mainstream requieres a certain level of mass appeal to the lowest common denominator I think. Being pop requieres like some sort of non comittement to a specific aesthetic or message, no clear hard artistic choice. Maybe we should just give up on the idea of the "push" we are in the era of the stream and fandom bubble, let's enjoy, support, help grow artist we like and like don't expect them to become some mainstream superstar.

[@Primalintent]

@@sydneyjael Thanks, Sydney! Appreciate it!

[@Belihoney]

Can we even blame it on the media being pushed (if that is what you were insinuating). I feel like both cardi and Meg were grass root movements. So many of us still find that more aspirational than anything else. Why is that? Is it because like what Kim was saying where that's the only option we see us as having a semblance of power?

[@Graoulia]

"it is really weird to me that the images that we elevate as being the epitome of empowerment look exactly like images that come out of the male imagination. We have reclaimed these things without questioning them" girl, YES!!

[@tadmira127dreamuvtadmir2]

Is so Sad and these women things that they are annoying men when they are only satisfying them, but they don't see how ridiculous their strategy is?

[@aaliyahbuggg]

@@tadmira127dreamuvtadmir2 EXACTLY!! 😂 Sex shouldn't be the only thing seen as empowerment 👏

[@stormyzee5272]

Black women are not free... "Most people are okay with consuming us as bodies, consuming us as hyper sexual beasts." As a black woman who travels I felt this way too much. Thank you for making this video. Your content is brilliant.

[@scifigirl7004]

*hugs❤ yeah sounds horrible

[@j.e.pierson9433]

I really hate the word "empowerment", It really has lost it's meaning.

[@taraspeaks6293]

Yeah. It's now loosely based.

[@rachozbaxtoz]

Too many people use it in their everyday lives to excuse their bad choices.

[@leilanidru7506]

Imo I think it (empowerment) just means different things to different types of people. Like most things. And when people don’t see their version of empowerment it’s now void of meaning.

[@LAVirgo67]

Each person has to reclaim it for themselves. It means different things for different people.

[@misscleo378]

Empowerment now means, we get to exploit ourselves before a male gets to. Just because it’s our choice, doesn’t mean it’s still not exploitation.

[@Nmendenh-rl6ej]

“Two things can be true.”- Kimberly Nicole Foster

[@taraspeaks6293]

Right. I like it and it's vulgar.

[@Sonwa]

"....at the same time." Literally my favourite quote.

[@cannibalisticrequiem]

@@co9971 Joke all you want, but it's something many people apparently don't think can be so these days. (Actually it's been happening for awhile.) Usually dickheads, like yourself, will sneer at activists and feminists (the "SJWs" as you seem so scared of) about how they need to "prioritize" their work better, and focus on "women in third-world countries" or "wHaT aBoUt MeN" when you don't actually care about, but will greatly weaponize in order to silence others. Honestly it's hilarious how men that will try to catch feminists in particular in a "Gotcha", and whine about how we aren't doing enough work fighting for male victims of sexual assault, but will turn around and criticise those men for being "f*gs" or "pussies". It can be both. You can care about both. You don't have to pick one. You can bemoan it for being so obvious, but if it really was, people wouldn't act the way they do.

[@malmal3003]

This!!!!

[@veroack5707]

That’s Ben Shapiro’s line too

[@BreaB15]

“Images elevated to be the epitome of empowerment look exactly like images out of the male imagination”... SIS.

[@BrittWriterly]

"Kylie wants to be viewed as not white. I think... I think something is there." lol. We all know exactly what's there.

[@SupernaturalLove100]

I think she at the most wants to achieve an “exotic” type of look. I don’t in any shape nor form believe she wants to be Black. A lot of these white girls who alter their bodies and styles want to appear more ethnic than they are but none of them actually want to be Blk. It really just comes down to an insecurity I believe 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@kusaekusae]

@@SupernaturalLove100 I also think it’s because an average looking whit girl with a little tan and enlarged features (mainly lips, hips and ass) will suddenly be considered beautiful in non white spaces. Like white people were not checking for Kylie.

[@talisha5863]

Kylie just wants to exploit the fact that black men prefer light and white women and she caters to their desires by enhancing herself to fit their standards of beauty.

[@jennyneutron6748]

"Men who hate OnlyFans are the same ones who love PornHub!!" I feel enlightened

[@killroy226]

yeah that one is making me think

[@teddygirl1987]

I need to post this on my social media, because all I hear ninja’s say is only fans is for whores but be talking about women’s vaginas all the time.🙄

[@cannibalisticrequiem]

@@Obi431 Take your misognoir and concern trolling elsewhere dude. It's not welcome here.

[@cannibalisticrequiem]

@Jenny Neutron It's true! Men who watch PornHub but bash OnlyFans girls as being "wh*res not worthy of respect" are mad that these women are turning profit for themselves.

[@heinzmustard7779]

Because only fans is a site you pay for and people who buy only fans are usually simps

[@___.209]

You have verbalised and intellectualised everything I felt about WAP and similar images of black women!!! Thank you!! We can p pop and twerk but that can’t be the only way we show up in media. It’s not liberating if it’s our only choice for representation - let’s see a dark skinned Taylor swift too, dark skinned Adele. We’re more than big asses shaking. We need to give ourselves more than that narrow image

[@mykzalot]

She snapped when she said they woman empowering but still in the standards of men

[@moriuhh]

But how is that on us? there are black women who are in the same genre as Adele and t swift and who create music and videos in that realm, it isn’t BLACK WOMENS fault that the media or the masses does not wanna see us that way. Also meg and cardi have always been sexual, I think it would make sense if these women had never been sexually charged in their lyrics but they have been this way long before 2020. It isn’t like they pulled a Miley and went from “soft” country music to explicitly sexual content to spotlight their career. Furthermore why are there only ever think pieces like this about black women? I love Kim so this is no shade to her, white women are allowed to have the freedom to b WHATEVER they want without it becoming a statement. Without it being political, I didn’t see anywhere where MEGAN OR CARDI said this music was about female empowerment blah blah it’s just a fun song about pussy, everyone else took it and ran with it as some giant political statement about women white and black alike

[@LethalLemonLime]

There have been lots of black Adele's. The media doesn't push them though.

[@vitoria.no.c]

Same here. The song and its buzz bothered me a tad but I couldn’t put that into words. So yeah. Kim always comes with the truth

[@mykzalot]

@@vitoria.no.c popularity and a lack of anything else musical going on is what drove that song

[@shanti804]

With Megan Thee Stallion sharing with us the traumatic violence she's endured and NO MALE in the hip-hop/entertainment industry said anything, was really telling that Black women are supposed to be everything and that's just not possible. We are nuanced, human beings, and the way that modern media and societal hegemony has shaped the way we Black women view our bodies and our sexuality, is really really traumatic and heartbreaking.

[@urockit2011]

PREACH!!!!

[@tyronechillifoot5573]

Actually a number of people have

[@BluKush420]

Actually Bun B stood up for Megan

[@xanxula8927]

Rick Ross clowned Tory too. But I get what you’re saying. It should’ve been unanimous support from black males in the industry. And even some women like Draya said nasty things. It’s ridiculous.

[@mile_851]

because she lied about getting shot. She would she showed were made bu glass, not a bullet. bullets leave circular holes, not lines. the one that was found with evidence of having pull a trigger was Magan's friend. she wasn'r shot, but if she was... her girlfriend shot her, not Tory. Ofcourse men won't talk on that case if 1. they don't have evidence and 2. if she seems to be lying. She also changed her story (the details), but Tory always told the same story.

[@clairejesseman8894]

Waaaitttt....after watching this, the WAP video has quite literal symbolism to me now....the rooms throughout the mansion are supposed to be boxes, with the mansion itself being the ultimate box, albeit a “shiny” one. So the women dancing are literally in boxes. But like Kim was saying, depending on what “type” of woman they are, determines which type of box they get to dance in.... And regarding Kylie’s appearance, being a white woman who has built her brand on appropriating these cultures, has the privilege to be able to literally walk from and through box to box as and whenever she pleases.... Okay maybe I’m late asl, perhaps blinded by my own privilege, but DAMN. Thank you, as always, for sharing and creating this incredible discussion, Kim. ❤️👏

[@SupernaturalLove100]

I really don’t think anyone behind the making of the video put this much thought into it 🥴💀

[@tadmira127dreamuvtadmir2]

Wow is a good theory , and the saddest part is see the box of Black women😕 ........I’m-not-like-that! ...... then all people thinks in this stereotype of black women always sexualized 🙄

[@nokuno]

Ohhh that's so interesting!! Thank you

[@lemelon7268]

Really interesting theory! Cardi and Megan walk through the mansion as well however, how would you interpret that?

[@AG-fg1uk]

Lol it's literally a brothel and Kylie is the mistress of the house. There's nothing philosophical or intellectual about that video

[@backhandedhandies]

“could it be that we’ve done ourselves a disservice by focusing on the spectacle of sexual liberation rather than the actual conditions that would make every day women more free” amazing

[@schnitzel23100]

“Agency and coercion can co-exist” WHEW sis speak on it , sooo many things clicked into place for me when you said that

[@Tendai_Nimat]

What does she mean by agency in this case?

[@OriginalityPeople]

Same

[@everuby1438]

@@Tendai_Nimat Agency as in having control over your body and being empowered to make your own choices

[@ZoeAlleyne]

I'm white, but as a sex worker I am so tired of getting backlash every time I don't think some sexual act or display is inherently empowering. From video clips to girls who go to strip clubs or whatever it happens to be. Like, I get wanting to be a cheerleader for women, totally on board with that. But when it gets to the point where your are ignoring the genuinely limited agency that some people really face, especially in this sexy work entertainment arena, then you can't claim empowerment. Like, this goes to actual sex work too, like you can't be critical of the INDUSTRY because that is sex negative? Ladies, come on. I'm not going to pretend that any big company that is mostly owned by men, run by men and who make things that are often geared towards men is inherently liberating. Get your money, don't let anyone shame you for that. But there is a woorld of difference between "shaming women" and "examining systems", let's do more of the second.

[@marekmedien]

👏👏👏

[@shakeitlikeanaries128]

!! exactly that, it is so important to subtract shame from these discussions so actual problems can be adressed. Because I think that is why a lot of women still find those type of images empowering, because they still trying to shun their own experience with slut shaming. From that very simple framing everything that represents sex that isn't slut shaming is experienced as liberatory.... But it's the kind of 'we are the world' liberatory

[@emmadilemma7800]

Thank you so much i always felt like a "bad feminist" cause ive never thought these displays of "sexual liberation" ever felt genuine. Like of course i want to support you but if this is owned by a man, produced by a man, directed by a man, invested by men. is that truly genuine, is this truly liberation? Can liberation come about from permission?

[@gennygadd6958]

yes!!!!

[@nicolem2877]

When is your Tedtalk coming out girl? Let us know 👏 We need real ppl like you talking abt this issue and challenging everyone’s hypocrisy. Thank you for your comment.

[@bigdezol]

There's no way to escape the male gaze, especially, as you say, the terms of "freedom" are built upon what men find desirable.

[@ima.m.1658]

I don’t think so, not if women are in control over their own bodies instead of men, and they do it to celebrate their femininity and themselves. After all, dances like twerking originated in African cultures and were not created for the male gaze.

[@karabokhwiane7593]

@@ima.m.1658 you haven't a clue what "being in charge of your sexuality" means. What would a re-imagined, post-structuralist ideal of feminity/sexuality ACTUALLY look like?

[@ordinarystuff6323]

Karabo Khwiane women who like having sex and showing their bodies doing what they want without stigma?

[@loveyours1147]

As as 21 yearly college student who used to feel left out or "weird" for not participating in or gravitating towards hook up culture I really appreciate this perspective!

[@soaribb32]

At the same time, if we want variety on the charts WE AS AN AUDIENCE have the duty to support black artists in their diversity and not just accept what mainstream feeds US.

[@user-hq6gt6wr9k]

THIS - It makes me hopeful to know that while the world is on some bs, I can completely immerse myself in an entirely different world musically, especially now that clubs and bars near me are closed/I'm not going to them

[@TheMorganVEVO]

THANK YOUUUU! 👏🏾 I’ve been saying this for so long.

[@nabisere5894]

absolutely. but why do so many of us find it so hard?

[@mzzzzzzday]

Yep cause it is there

[@talis4672]

THISSS. Indie black girl artist recommendation: Arlo Parks. She’s amazing y’all please support her!!!

[@Nortarachanges]

“Angering misogynists gives me wings” should be a shirt ^_^

[@MrSexydivas]

When she said that I raised praise hands!!

[@mshill2406]

yes!

[@babyyodachelsea7034]

Yes!!!

[@leshcamp7281]

"The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house "Audre Lorde.

[@cbeghin0514]

“I don’t know why people feel the need to map empowerment onto everything they enjoy just to excuse their enjoyment of it...” you icon

[@Tonia682]

I couldn't agree with you more. I was in my 20s during the 90s and remember when female rap went from MC Lyte/Queen Latifah to Lil Kim/Foxy Brown. Since that time mainstream Black women rappers have been pigeon-holed into an increasingly hypersexualized role. It's cloaked as female empowerment but it's everything but that.

[@majose7787]

Defo!

[@TheMorganVEVO]

And a lot of women from entertainment who are celebrated as empowering feminist icons ended up coming forward about how exploited they were by the industry. Many of them were literal teenagers when they first came out and didn’t have a strong grasp of what they were representing. They are often packaged as sexually liberated, but it’s usually just a scheme by execs and studios.

[@Tonia682]

@@TheMorganVEVO True! The older I get the more I've seen that some celebrities are dealing with horrific issues behind the scenes. We need to be careful who we elevate and what we emulate.

[@TheMorganVEVO]

Tonia682 EXACTLY! It shouldn’t be controversial to make that statement.

[@ginagrant4909]

Facts 💯🎯 In the 90’s we had soooooo many different types of female rappers! Golden times! ❤️

[@TeeNoir]

I'm listening, and I'm learning. I'm so grateful for you, Kim.

[@ClitoracleOracle]

Tee Noir! Girl, I love all your content. And all your brilliant ideas along with the little lipbalm/chapstick mid video rants. Every time I watch a new video of yours, it makes me wish I could just run into in the real world and have real conversations and be your friend. Peace.

[@AbianahAlmeida]

*2 seconds of Kylie* "There was too much Kylie."😂😂

[@felipeson]

Chloe and Halle can eat up 90% of Music industry with their talent but people still don’t give them the deserved attention.

[@crystalclear675]

I know they definitely gonna pop up on my Spotify Top 5 yearly roundup in January! I’ve listened to that album all day everyday. I agree though, attention is given to other musicians with half the talent but they only starting, I feel something magical brewing with them and their music career.

[@LoveLaRieXO]

They aren’t “only starting”. They’ve been performing since they were like 6 years old. They getting “new found attention” for being hyper sexualized in the tiny box Kim referenced.

[@crystalclear675]

@@LoveLaRieXO NGL the first time I read your comment I was annoyed with it, but damn these past few months idk what’s happened with Chloe. You called it! The hyper sexualization in the Have Mercy video was a lot. It’s so disappointing to see the box literally being formed around Chloe.

[@ebonih7138]

This aged like fine wine lol

[@JayTechZM]

Chloe...yikes

[@bloomindoom]

This is definitely a conversation more people need to have. Same thing has been happening in Jamaican dancehall music for years...

[@carlissiawilkins4432]

True!

[@KSP30]

Girl!!

[@nabisere5894]

YES YES AND YES

[@125loopy]

Dear god dancehall is crazy. Remember Gaza Slim making a whole song about having only one man. "I protect my man and protect myself No man can laugh at my bf" Can't believe I was singing that shit at 12 😭

[@KSP30]

MeShannan same! So bad lol

[@CydBee]

Love you, mean it

[@TheMorganVEVO]

Cydnee Black Love you and your channel, Cydnee! 😍

[@rudeboy5127]

We the patriarchy. Who will protect you? Who will kill the water bug?

[@mysticaltj2440]

Hate you. Kidding. Sorry. I had to. Lol

[@thisasiankidistrashfordram374]

I'm a year late, but I love both of you gals 😍.

[@kleberbraga2605]

Kim, I'm a huge Sade fan, and your analysis made me realize something that was bothering me all along on the comment sections of her videos. She's a black female artist that is not performing the cardi-like style of sexuality that you're talking about in this video. She does have a lot of songs are very - how can I put it? - inward, affective reflections of her own experiences. Yet the comments were always about how she was 'mysterious' and 'sexy'. Yes, she's a beautiful woman and her aura have that mystery-like appeal, but she's so much more than that, and she presented her work with another frame. She wrote and produced a lot of things that got far away from this spectre, a LOT of social-commentary songs too, but she has been perceveid on almost every comment section i layd my eyes upon as the 'sexy mysterious lady'. It made me wonder: even when this link to sexuality is not given by a black woman's artistic performance, the audience induce it on their perception of the artist/song. Once again, even if she's performing songs and concepts that are out of this league, she's reduced to that by a part of the audience. That pisses me off.

[@ricecristi]

They way you write mystery 😂 For black women apart of success (in the industry) is going to mean being sexual/sexy. The ones they don’t do it to, Tracy Chapman, Macy Gray, Lauren Hill etc rarely maintain a huge level of success. Success means selling your physical body on some level. But maybe the missy elliots and Oprah’s just fall into the sweet fat magical black lady trope.

[@kleberbraga2605]

@@ricecristi I've "misteryously" blend this word with its portuguese correlactive ("misteriosa") 🤣

[@arbitrarylib]

Mhm

[@jahlaniluv]

You really spoke truth to power with this 💜🖤💜

[@EmilyDickmesome]

That's true for every female performer let's not lie here.

[@zylphiacarron6988]

Also don’t forget that around the time Cardi B stated the issues with “Be Careful,” she highlighted amazing female rap artists that aren’t all about sexuality that are being ignored by people. Doja Cat did the same as well. Tierra Whack, Chika, Rico Nasty, etc. are all rappers that are amazing at what they do and have quirks that don’t involve only their sexuality. We definitely gotta do more in asking for black women artists’ talents and not just their sexualities and bodies

[@Strawberry-zb9mz]

Rico nasty has been doin the loud punk rap thing for quite a while now but I feel like I heard white female rappers gain popularity off of it first recently :/

[@chrisfarmer6893]

Also this analysis reminded me of "The Society of the Spectacle," which is a book about how modern capitalism relies on spectacle to survive. This also makes it impossible to really be subversive, because any art that truly subverts capitalism just becomes absorbed into it as another spectacle. (Like Che Guevara shirts which were originally shocking but now worn all over the world) KZbinr Tom Nicholas has a great video summarizing the concepts in the book, highly recommended.

[@ForHarriet619]

oooh i'll check this out!

[@chrisfarmer6893]

@@ForHarriet619 Thanks I'm glad you like the suggestion!

[@talis4672]

For Harriet Tom Nicolas, an awesome youtuber/video essayist, has a great video explaining the Society of the Spectacle! Highly recommend :)

[@akatobi2002]

I recently discovered him in my search of culture critical video essays. He's fantastic!!!

[@lemonline3719]

@@akatobi2002 Do you have a playlist of these videos by chance? 👀

[@Hairloverrr]

Thank you for this video. Sexual liberation for women cannot just be a regurgitation of the male gaze with women "seemingly" being in control. That is not a radical re-imagining of what sexuality can look like for women or non-men (or non- cis-het men). A radical imagination of sexual liberation would not include any vestiges of a phallocentric definition of sex. This is similar to imagining a world without prisons, that world would not include any vestiges of policing. Again, thank you for this video I haven't seen this analysis of feminist theory on any other platform!

[@tinaamariee832]

Most black women I know listen to a variety of black female artist from the overtly sexual to the underground work artist. The reason sexual black women charts so well is bc the white masses prefer to embrace black womens art in this explicit form. Look at Chloe x Halle they didn’t get the shine or respect their talent deserved en masse until they became more sexually mature in their music.

[@badnoisebebopblackoutnetwo3348]

Tinashe too, kind of...but what about when the white masses do prefer more non-mainstream acts like Noname, and she quits because of it?

[@tinaamariee832]

@@badnoisebebopblackoutnetwo3348 that’s a rare case & one that upsets me as well bc I’m a fan. I feel like as an artist she should’ve just continued to stay authentic to music for her audience & drowned out the rest of the noise. As long as, she didn’t compromise her morals/integrity to please those white masses idk why she felt the need to quit over it. Especially, since blackness is enjoyed in phases by non-POC most of those new fans would’ve faded away in a year or 2 anyway. Leaving her with her core fan base that truly supported her

[@badnoisebebopblackoutnetwo3348]

@@tinaamariee832 I suppose. My basic point was that the non-mainstream black sound and artistry can be enjoyed and supported by people in general, and it being rare, as you say, is probably not going to be remedied by artists walking away. I remember when I listened to the Welcome To Night Vale podcast, which has a predominantly white audience, the black artists that they would feature where very outside of the norm for black artists, and are also embraced by the audience. I don't know. Time will tell

[@tinaamariee832]

@@badnoisebebopblackoutnetwo3348 I’m speaking from a traditional standpoint in the mainstream music charting game. There are white platforms like NPR & other that highlight underground artist. But the mainstream as a whole only seems to make space for oversexualized or hardcore stereotypes of black music

[@badnoisebebopblackoutnetwo3348]

@@tinaamariee832 True. To me, that seems to be a product of the larger capitalistic boxing of mostly non-white artists, and serving that to white and black etc., audiences alike -- than it is about any group specifically doing that to any other in any way that's an essential characteristic of either party or their taste. Because it gets tricky when you try and find out whether something is supplied because it is in organic demand, or if it is in artificial demand because it's been aggressively advertised and only then does it get supplied accordingly -- which would mean the problem is the structure, and the taste of the masses are only a symptom not the disease. Anyway, all we know is someone's making money.

[@StarCastersUniverse]

"Too much Kylie" lmao literally same, ngl i was pretty confused why she was even there 😳

[@AslanNotYoshi]

Kim, you are ... the most brilliant person I have ever listened to on any platform. You understand that things coexist. I love you for that

[@nabisere5894]

right . She is the only reason i can be on youtube for hours.

[@Nihilist_Porcupine]

Nuance. It's a trip.

[@KimberlyPinkney]

What cringes me the most are the Tik Tok videos of little girls willingly dancing suggestively to these songs without thinking or caring who they are doing this for.

[@madison3514]

Yes!!!

[@elisemc4109]

Yea especially the way they are incentivized to shed their clothes

[@Minikat93]

Just how young girls danced to back that ass up in the 99 2000's

[@starcherry6814]

Let their parents handle that, musicians are not responsible. And I wonder why people are only concerned how sex songs will affect young girls when it's a woman singing the song Men have been making nasty music for much longer than women, literally commanding girls to shake their ass and nobody is concerned how it will affect girls then or even how it affects young boys too

[@Ethnicsugar]

Thank you! Not sure why whenever someone mentions young girls/boys dancing on social media to WAP, people gotta mention "but what about the music we listened to back in the day and danced to"...thats irrelevant now and truthfully WE shouldn't have done it.

[@AliA-vp5vb]

"Capitalism requires all of us to participate in compulsory performances."

[@rodneykennedy7314]

"Why do so many of us want to have one foot in and one foot out" This is the first time Ive ever seen a black woman acknowledge that there is a wide spread problem of accountability on any sort of platform. Too may black people want things that are ultimately harmful for us.

[@sugarpearl9781]

Not everything women enjoy is empowering! Thank you! I see so many companies and businesses trying to push overt sexuality, makeup, shape wear, etc. as feminism and so many women buy into it and I don’t understand? How does giving men the sex they want and conforming to societal beauty standards empowering or feminist? It doesn’t mean it’s inherently wrong or that women should be shamed for doing this. It’s fun and women should be allowed to have fun, but we shouldn’t have to validate our fun. Also, while I know there is a variety of black women in music, I wish they got pushed more. I wish we saw as much of Janelle Monae and FKA Twigs as we see of Megan Thee Stallion and Nicki Minaj.

[@elm1230]

The part about reimagining sexuality outside the male gaze (or even what society pushes on us) is definitely something I think about often. Bjork is the first artist that comes to mind when I think about this conversation. Most people engage with Bjork’s work as if she’s an asexual, ethereal, sprite, that sings about far off concepts. But Bjork is actually quite sexual, and there’s a sexuality that comes from her work. It’s just that she’s been given the space to reimagine sex and sexuality for herself, so it comes out in ways that are unfamiliar to the viewer that isn’t paying attention. As for black women artists doing this, I’m split. Cardi’s point is valid, people aren’t tryna hear other shit. And I love how pressed it makes the opposition lol However, as you stated, WAP ain’t nothing to write home about, we’ve seen it. And Kim did it way more explicitly imo lol

[@gracedowdy206]

what’s crazy is that i can barely even imagine what female sexuality looks like without the male gaze

[@flazay_da]

Some specific songs with particularly sexual lyrics/metaphors from Bjork are of course Cocoon, Venus as a Boy, Hidden Place, Utopia, and Mutual Core. Sun In My Mouth is a quick little poetic song about masturbation.

[@ayemiksenoj5254]

@@gracedowdy206, I think it looks specific to each individual and there particular sexual mood. An as odd as it may sound... It may be something you have to try on or put on for awhile to see what fits.

[@ayemiksenoj5254]

I really appreciate this comment. I never really THOUGHT about her music as sexual (or her sexuality) BUT I could definitely FEEL IT. It is other worldly, it is whimsical and fantasy, soft yet open to aggression. All the while it's totally feminine.. No matter what it belongs to her... We need something that belongs to us.

[@ayemiksenoj5254]

@Mrs. Arthur Morgan, Idk why, but I so desperately want to see asexual ppl represented! I have actually visualized tv shows and movies with asexuality in the forefront and lead characters. I am very fascinating with this lifestyle. I hope that's not offensive to you or seem like fetishism. I just believe it's sorely missing from the conversation at large.

[@SolAya21]

I can't wait for the day I can see the same diversity afforded to men, afforded to women in music. The top 5 male rappers right now are Kendrick, Drake, J.Cole, DaBaby, Jay-Z, etc. there's a huge diversity of topics, personalities, etc. Now for the women its Nicki, Megan, Cardi, City girls, Doja cat. All operate in some way out of the Lil Kim hypersexual model. Idk how to fix it, the audience needs to support all black women so the industry will embrace all black women..listen to chika, no name, rapsody, Tierra wack etc..

[@TheMorganVEVO]

Thank you for pointing this out.

[@SolAya21]

@@TheMorganVEVO yeah, and I LOVE Meg and Cardi etc. Just wish the other ladies got hype too

[@TheMorganVEVO]

@@SolAya21 Right. There’s only one specific image that makes the most profit. Nobody wants to take any chances on anything else.

[@tinaye8638]

Chika is so talented I was mind blown when I listened to her music, it's everything people have been asking for but it doesn't get the right recognition along with Cupcakke ,tierra and rhasody

[@TheMorganVEVO]

@@tinaye8638 I heard Tierra Whack quit. I really hope it's not true. She's so brilliant.

[@Tinkertoll]

I completely understand your point about why ethnic or black women have to rap or sing about explicit things to hit the height of success, versus other races who get to rap/ sing about all kinds of topics and still hit the pinnacle of success. What does this mean, why are we depicted this way? Do we bring it upon ourselves because of culture? I don’t know but it’s a great conversation to have.

[@ot5874]

i wouldn’t say we bring it on ourselves. this racist trope has been around forever and we didn’t ever have a say in it. which is why it’s a problem. but we have to be responsible consumers as well!!

[@12smithjames]

First thoughtful critic I heard since this song came out.

[@marekmedien]

same, the discussion (especially on Twitter) was sooo annoying

[@schoolhookeygirl]

@@marekmedien Twitter was giving it way too much, especially from people I tend to agree with.

[@TheGirlbookbyNina]

I love this conversation. I've been frustrated with the idea that Black women selling sex is "empowering" for a long time. For example, I LOVE Victoria Monet's new project "Jaguar." The production, the vocals, the vibe...it's all incredible. But pretty much ALL of the songs are about sex. Like, 8 out of 9. "You're inside of me...nobody hit it like you hit it...I wanna see what your head game like...let me climb your wood...tryna get laid today..." Even her gym anthem "A** Like That" is very male-gazey...HE wanna know how she got it like that. It's just exhausting to hear about f*kin' all the damn time! She said she wanted to talk about sex in the way men do, and she achieved that. But that's NOTHING NEW. Khia was telling women to pop their P's 20 years ago, and the history goes even farther back. I guess the change is, as you mentioned, women can elevate their status because of it. It's foolish to say this is all purely empowering, though. It's like if you want money and success, you can either pop your P for a man or pop your P for yourself. Either way, the P must be popped.

[@austincde]

I need an essay about how sex is exhausting, not just the physical act but the "game", the mental preparing, the lack of choreography, and expectations. Like they(black women) want it ALL the time for the past 20 years? I need to take a nap.

[@juicyparsons]

I'm exhausted by sex too but I also need a shirt that says "the P must be Popped"

[@mikebanning1773]

I need a song sung by Male. It should be Based on Female Gaze. . Basically Sex from a Female view, and Basically Female admiring Male bodies and lusting for men. . Im sick of The Male gaze songs too😂, I wanna listen to Female Gaze Songs.

[@kalinders]

This conversation also made me think of Victoria Monet! I've been so obsessed with her song Ass Like That, I think it's melodically one of the most gorgeous and introspective songs... the arrangement and production is so good - but the lyrics to me don't fit the mood of the song at all and feel completely disconnected, like they were just pasted in to make the song more appealing to a mass audience. It's such a bummer (no pun intended) but I understand the need to make music that will sell/elevate an artists' status like you said

[@mikebanning1773]

@@kalinders bummer 😂😂 . It was a good pun. Accept it

[@wendynerd1199]

Kylie is that girl who does nothing during the group project but presents everything like she's done it all. I didn't like this song until it started to make all the right people angry.

[@saveourselvespc]

You have made my day. As a Black male professor, I need to play this video for my class and I need to see whether I can get you to be a guest in my class. You are using your platform very well. God Bless you .

[@aphiwemoshani1393]

"spectacles are fun to indulge in, but they are definitely not liberatory if the conditions they arise from remain unchanged" Kiiiiimm, I'm screaaaaminggg! what a an important discussion, you really took us where we needed to go girl.

[@Treasure800]

Break it down for me, pls

[@ThemisThoth]

The myopic view on black female sexuality is highly problematic. 👏🏾👏🏾

[@ThemisThoth]

Word for my view on this issue.

[@LumkaJwara]

This was a powerful conversation. I can’t relate to all these hip hop women because of all the sex talk in their music , I could pin it. I don’t find their music empowering for me but I can support them from a distance.

[@tallulah9789]

When wap came out I was just a bit confused as to why everyone was freaking out because Its been done a lot of times before. Like it's the most common topic in popular black womens music and this video made me realise that properly.

[@itssesie]

“A lot of women think sexual liberation is the ability to be desired by men on the terms that are set by men” I really liked that point. Lots of great points in this video in general Question: couldn’t it also be argued that women who are more reserved about their sexuality and more “modest” are not really sexually liberated as patriarchy may have led them to believe that being more modest gives them more value as a woman. So then what does sexual liberation really look like? (Not trying to say that you implied less sexually explicit women are truly sexually liberated)

[@TheWonderGirl23]

Right and both viewpoints get bashed on and most of us are in the gray where we live in the middle of both spectrums. Wanting to express our sexuality in social and genderized social conceptions and norms. We all use our sexuality in the spectacle based on the context and the audience we find ourselves in. In true evolution as black women we live in these sexual phases based on the age we are in the cycle of our life. But pertaining to your focus of the modest women I say we all deserve space in the room of this conversation. Just like you don’t want your personal choices to be criticized have the grace and empathy to understand someone else’s perspective with the same respect. Just like anything else both spectrum have pros and cons, positives and negatives, toxicity and prosperity. I believe that would be the next step in the conversation get past the weaponizing your personal sexuality and working on living cohesively together. What I think should be discussed is sexual education, liberation, girlhood, women hood, spirituality, religion, financial health, mental heath, legacy, personal health, community, and dignity of identity. All of these work in tandem and balance of each other. We have to focus on black womens humanity to be able to work on these individual factors that makeup our identities.

[@syntheticteapot]

@@TheWonderGirl23 couldn't have said it better myself.

[@leilanidru7506]

TheWonderGirl23 yes! That Grey area and the pressure and bashing from both sides. It’s rarely discussed.

[@funkylilmouse]

"What does sexual liberation look like?" -- Well, diverse bodies, diverse dancing, diverse beauties? Like, women looking like real women, realistic women from all over the rainbow? Women performing in music videos without the need to wear weaves all the time and shake their asses, etc. Sexual liberation means having a choice. Janet Jackson's style has changed, she's now fully covered from neck to toe. And she's still stunning and attractive. But the point is, she chose to. She wasn't obliged to do it. And she's still very popular. Or Alicia Keys not wearing makeup. Now why not showing women with unperfect bodies? Stretch marks, celulite, moles, thining hair, loose skin, saggy boobs, etc? That too, is sexual liberation to me. They are the way they are and choose not to alter themselves for the male gaze.

[@e.richardson4374]

funkylilmouse Exactly, how liberated are women that have chosen under pressure from men to look like blow up dolls and say to a beat whatever sexually outrageous thing they can think of while dancing... it’s been done over and over again. What’s next for black women in hip hop?

[@faithbranch1477]

I didn’t know what was bothering me about WAP (like I liked that it made misogynists mad but I also hated how so many feminists kept calling it empowering, and I didn’t know why) until you put it into WORDS!

[@ima.m.1658]

I think WAP is empowering. Women are in control of their own bodies in the lyrics, not men (except for “whores in this house”). Sex is a natural thing, so talking about their “WAP” in the context of having sex with a man does not mean they are catering to the male gaze or degrading themselves. Women enjoy sex and Megan and Cardi show that in their lyrics, which is a form of liberation.

[@piricarmen]

It’s promoting the Jezebel stereotype. It’s disgusting and terrible for young minds.

[@MostHighDwelling]

Agreed.

[@morganmorgan884]

As a 34yr woman I agree.

[@abja101]

Ladies! Let's not be rude girls. I mean acting like little girls, and were grown. Giving into the mean girl stereotype why cant women have disagreements without being disrespectful.

[@texvirgo9847]

@ComplexElegance yesss! I'm a Christian too :)

[@popcornwallace330]

This is why Bbymutha is a great sex positive, dark skin black woman. Her aesthetic is so much from herself, not about being palatable while also being sensual and playful, her music is really personal and real, she never wants to undermine people for their sexuality and is honest about wanting to support her family and doing it independently too

[@AJ-cq5pw]

This is why I get annoyed with people who say feminism is all about choice and feel that we shouldn't have discussions about the choices women make in the name of women empowerment or feminism. Like sure, women should be allowed to be sexually liberated and express their sexuality if they want to, but we should also be conscious of how we are doing that if we're actually doing it in the name of empowerment or to appeal to the male gaze. It's important to take deeper looks into the choices we make instead of just brushing it off by saying, "to each is own" when we could be having some real conversations about this stuff. Also Kim you were literally glowing in this video, you look great. Miss your video essays btw

[@marekmedien]

feminism is when women do stuff and the stronger they do stuff the more feminist they are. shy women? not feminist. poor women? nah not feminist. that's how so many view feminism. like it wouldn't have any theory and history behind it, it's just a marketing term now -_-

[@TheMorganVEVO]

Marek Everything you said is sadly true. Especially that last part. Watching “feminism” and *reading* feminism as an adult makes a WORLD of difference.

[@leilanidru7506]

Marek if it’s actually about choice then I don’t see any feminists saying shy, meek, and poor women aren’t feminist. I agree that calling something female empowerment shouldn’t excuse it from criticism though.

[@rebuiltgirl3263]

@@leilanidru7506 sit in college classroom nowadays and you will here the opposite

[@anissa2361]

@@rebuiltgirl3263 Exactly!

[@DSN430]

Thank you. The video didn't make me feel liberated at all, it actually felt suffocating. I'm more conservative (as in I dress 'modestly' and see sex as a big deal, not that I align with Conservative Values TM) and I'm so sick of this type of femininity and sexuality being force fed to me. I love that it's allowed now, shaming sexual expression is stupid, but it can't be the only way to get a #1 as a black woman. I actually loved Be Careful because I felt like it showed more of Cardi's heart, that Offset IS hurting her and she was going through something very painful. To me, showing that kind of vulnerability made her image more real and relatable, more well rounded. It sucks that she was discouraged from releasing more music like that.

[@f0xywriter160]

I'm not a black woman but hearing this still made me almost cry in class 🥺 I've lived similar stuff and it's too real. Keep on speaking up 👏👏

[@Lavvysuperstar23]

Thank you so much for this video! I'm so tired of being told that female bodies being extremely sexualised is somehow empowering to me 🙄

[@amateurastronomer9752]

Omg, thank you for saying "do we have to make every p-popping song a feminist anthem"? Slick what I was thinking but nervous to say especially since I know the history of the "hypersexualized black woman". It just seems a little much. Plus, I've BEEN waiting for the media to embrace something new when it comes to image of black women cause we're out here.

[@mermaidtingzzz]

Check out T'kay Maidza, she's got a great alt-black girl aesthetic and sound.

[@passionxoxo9940]

THANK YOU KIM, I’ve been going back and forth with people about this topic and I very much share a similar viewpoint to you. It’s so hard to articulate legitimate feminism in a world that is constantly using it as a cloak to say they just enjoy music, that sorry to say, reinforces patriarchal standards and culture.

[@TheMorganVEVO]

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@leilanidru7506]

What’s LEGITIMATE feminism?

[@passionxoxo9940]

Leilani Dru go look into some books, articles, research papers, and commentary etc regarding Feminist Theory/Intersectional Feminist Theory. I’d look into a variety of viewpoints and belief systems and then come up with your own conclusion(s). Hope that inspires you to do the work :) but really I was phrasing it generally bc, once again, once you have a general understanding of Feminism you would see in relation to the WAP music video specifically, it is in many ways the anti-thesis of “female empowerment” let alone the black women’s ability to be diverse, empowered, and recognized for things outside of hyper-sexuality. But that’s a lot to get into in the COMMENTS, so if this video of Kim’s didn’t inspire you enough to do more research, I reiterate for you to do so :)

[@leilanidru7506]

Passion xoxo I’ve done my research and heard different perspectives and have my own definition of feminism. I was asking about yours because you said legitimate feminism so I’m curious what’s the objective and legitimate version of feminism and what isn’t.

[@passionxoxo9940]

Leilani Dru that’s great! Like I said not really going to elaborate in the comments as I don’t feel that’s necessary. But I’m glad you’ve done the work, good day :)

[@kelleyjohnson6919]

You just blew my mind. I’m a sex Ed teacher and have spent the summer reading material on how to be anti racist and am hungry for more videos like these. I am so thankful this showed up on my feed. I’m your new number one fan! Keep up the good work. Now I’m gonna look at everything you’ve done.

[@dr.flipside7035]

"Could it be that we are encouraging women to lie about their empowerment, while leaving women to fend for themselves in a misogynistic culture." This is a great quote, and it emphasizes that choice feminism should never take priority over research and the work dismantling of power structures.

[@omosummer840]

You are fully on the money at 12:00 with the artists being avatars for repressed sexuality. I've been thinking this for ages and you've put it in to words!

[@laexploradoraaaXD]

I hadn't heard Cardi say that before and every time she talks about politics, which have impacted her actual life, from the Bronx to where she is now, people immediately start talking about her sexually explicit lyrics. They can't hold that both things are true. They can't handle the fact that she can be thinking about her p and also things going on in the world. This is doubly true when she starts talking about things happening in DR because Dominicans aren't used to seeing a Black woman that embraces her Blackness as the face of Dominican music, not when the chart toppers in Latin America are all white/mestizas.

[@GalaxyGirl08]

What blackness does she embrace? Cardi B isn’t a black woman. She’s a multiracial Latina.

[@laexploradoraaaXD]

@@GalaxyGirl08 Cardi B is a Black woman. She has a multi ethnic background, but she's Black.

[@GalaxyGirl08]

Dora Mercedes Cardi B is not a black woman. She’s a multiracial Latina like most people from the Dominican Republic and Trinidad. She’s as much black as she is white (spanish) and native (native of the Caribbean islands). To see all this and still say she’s just black is false. She’s not a black woman, but a multiracial Latina woman.

[@BlackDiamond-rj1ov]

@@GalaxyGirl08 Thank You

[@laexploradoraaaXD]

@@GalaxyGirl08 Not everyone in Latin America is mixed. Some of us are just white, some of us are just Black, and some of us are indigenous. This bullshit idea that everyone in Latin America is mixed is wrong. The majority of Dominicans on the island are Black. They're visibly Black. Cardi B is a Black Latina.

[@najahfarooq7258]

Nicki Minaj & Doja Cat - Say So remix is the 1st female rap collaboration to go #1. It literally just happened like 3 months ago. Idk why people keep saying this...

[@jammydoughnuts]

"Could it be that we've done ourselves an enormous disservice by focusing so much on the spectacle of sexual liberation rather than the actual conditions that would make real life everyday women more free?" YES YES YES. Why is sexual liberation all about demonstrating that women can have just as much sex as men can? What are we doing about the orgasm gap? What are we doing to ensure women's boundaries are respected? A large amount of men don't give a fuck about women's pleasure and being more sexually available to them does not change that fact. They're just getting more access to our bodies without having to work for it. If anything, "sexual liberation" and "sex positivity" exist to empower men, not women.

[@veeceey1073]

Whew the point on men being mad about OnlyFans versus pornhub is a word. I also found the tweets, articles etc about WAP being a feminist anthem to be doing way too much. To me it felt like they were going out of their way to justify (for lack of a better word) the song. I had no idea Foxy was so young when ill na na was released. It’s unsettling to think how young she was while actually recording the album.

[@leyhaw6762]

The spectacle and immense popularity of “sexual liberation” does more harm than good, especially for girls within the age groups of 14-18. From personal experience, these messages have encouraged me to do things and participate in activities that I probably wouldn’t have done without this “sexual liberation” movement. I thought to be a feminist or a strong woman I had to do what these women talked about partaking in in their songs (even though they weren’t really living it), and when I wasn’t participating it was very damaging to my self image, worth and confidence because I felt as if I would be viewed as less than if I did not participate in the “sexy hood” aesthetic. I say all this to say that this new “sexual liberation” movement and the encouragement of it through black female rap is very detrimental to young black women. Since there is no diversity in these images, we are not able to see ourselves as sexy, or wanted if we do not follow these specific guidelines for behavior.

[@millsykooksy4863]

Yup

[@ayemiksenoj5254]

I'm in my forties. I've been splitting myself for others in every way my entire life. It was TAUGHT TO ME. We have to be RETAUGHT how to be our genuine WHOLE selves. We need teachers! It can be done alone, but let's be real.. that's not really how anything is learned, even when we think it is. To me the biggest dangers for us as Black women is WE don't have teachers invested in us enough to change our lives. An please don't think age means you know enough to teach. It's something that goes both ways. I need help from my younger sisters now to help me navigate this world the way it is now, not the way I was used to it being. An my sisters older than me help ground me in what is still true. To me, going forward it's the better way to grow.

[@ThePiscesdiva01]

I like the conversation about how Niki minaj and cardi b wants to portray sex through music but at home its a different story. I remember there was a rumor about cardi b never wanting to tell people she was pregnant until after her and offset got married. Makes you really think about the thin line between consent and agency

[@molivie1624]

You made very valid points. And I definitely am guilty of using women like Meg and Cardi as sexual avatars.

[@classassignment3643]

Yeah there’s a lot of us that just won’t see ourselves in the mainstream.

[@liyahcoleman7863]

I don't think any of us were ready for this conversation but thank you for starting it

[@takeshiadavis]

I'm glade I wasn't the only person who peeped how some of the ladies where dressed compared to the other ethnic of ladies where clothed.

[@akayla2398]

The “bad woman” narrative is something I definitely had to battle and see in a lot of my friends. Hit that right on the nail!!

[@thabzK]

A brilliant analysis on the so called "sexual liberation" of our age which operates primarily under the patriarchal framework.

[@sidewithwerewolves]

Wap made me feel uncomfortable as a guy but I could feel it in my brain that I couldn't understand where and why I came from. I'm glad for that uncomfortable feelin. I'm also glad forthe analysis you've done [also not fully understanding the origin and analysis but full understanding isn't the necessity for empathic learning]. Keep on flexing my brain box. Stay awesome

[@SandraStVictor]

THIS. So much of what she’s saying is exactly how I’ve felt about it. I’ve spoken to a few close friends, male and female artists, and they have differing opinions. The men feel it’s empowering women, the sisters do not. But yes, sure, I want these women to get their money. But there are soooo many ignored voices, so many left unseen. It’s a feature of the music industry, and has been my entire career. Thanks for this video.

[@Drewski217]

This is the only take I really feel measured everything/all the angles. this quote really hits the nail - 'A lot of folks don't approach Meg and Cardi and their work from a place of viewing them as fully embodied women. As women with a diverse set of ideas and ideals right? They're viewing them as avatars for their own repressed sexuality or avatars for their own quote-unquote rachetness' as well as Cardi herself saying that she has multitudes but people only care about sex selling and the same for Meg. They show all of themselves and their minds/ideas but people only want to view them one way. Men have talked this way about women - especially black men talking about black women - but they're mad that Cardi & Meg figured out the system and made it work for themselves. In that way they took back some power but I do get now the idea that they took it back by operating via the lens we have now vs. creating a new one for success. I also think people see Meg and Cardi as 'guilty pleasure' fun and don't want to consider that they're whole people either because while lots of people don't want to take Cardi's political mind seriously she clearly not only has it but is accurate most of the time while Meg very proudly talks about her schooling too.

[@marishajames3581]

Glad they’re getting their money. That’s great. But they’re minstrels. Period. This is not the sexuality or feminism that I subscribe to however it’s nothing new. Most but not all rappers male and female have depicted themselves with the aid of their labels ( masters lol) as hyper sexual beings which all stems from how we were and have continued to be depicted via racist propaganda to condone our being seen as inferior or not evolved. These artists are modern day minstrels and none of them have the depth, range or historically relevant knowledge to realize that. They’re getting paid to perpetuate their own objectification smh and people have the nerve to call it agency, liberation or feminism. As a result of the African Diaspora, it’s way deeper than that.

[@kamicajones6917]

You betta talk yo talk Marisha! This comment cuts deep but truth hurts. I like most of the music out now but the lyrics are so tired, everybody regurgitates doing drugs and getting hoes- just perpetuating age old stereotypes!

[@Trini190]

Exactly! And to keep it real they did it for money period!

[@magaaliii]

I've never thought about it from this perspective but it makes so much sense. This should be a top comment.

[@momcat2223]

Okay, I was looking for this comment. As a white woman (of a certain age) I was completely confused but...again...as a white woman, didn't know how to phrase what bothered me about WAP w/o being completely shouted down. This was my take as well. Having been raised in a time when the referenced racist propaganda was - literally - _everywhere_ (including Saturday morning cartoons), I was dismayed that WAP is considered the height of empowered feminism.

[@merchantfan]

Yeah when I heard "I want you to make me gag" I wondered- "Do you actually like that Cardi or is this another marketing decision?" Bc she can be as freaky as she wants but a lot of the things she described seemed straight out of the top results on pornhub. It wasn't like that Jayden Smith pregnant dragon thing which while not something I wanted to hear at least sounded specific enough to be personal. Teen girls don't need any more encouragement to hurt themselves in order to please boys

[@penelopemartindale2075]

i keep coming back to this video - kim just hit it out of the park with this one. i so appreciate the research, the thinking, all of it.

[@furbyacolyte5604]

this just popped up in my recommendations and i am so in awe of how clear and to the point you are! been tiring of long-winded essays with forced skits and this was such a breath of fresh air ugh. wish i could quote something but the whole video was just gold

[@c8517]

I’m leaving a comment because, although I’ve followed you for around two years, have consistently watched your videos for the bigger part of that timeframe and have my notifications on for your channel, I rarely see the videos suggested to me anymore. I watched a Tee Noir video where she references you and I realized how long it had been since you’ve showed up on my feed. (This applies to a lot of black creators i’m subscribed to, so I know it’s a programmed bias, but somebody wrote the code for the algorithm, and that can no longer be the only excuse for this entire platform). So this is my attempt to let the algorithm know: I WANT TO SEE THESE VIDEOS, thank you. Unfortunately I don’t have the funds for a Patreon membership, but I will make a bigger effort to seek out your uploads until YT starts pushing them again. Thank you so very much for the work you do. Have a lovely day!

[@kionnakelly2918]

I thought that was only me

[@ForHarriet619]

Times are hard. I appreciate anyone who watches my videos. Thanks!

[@shakeitlikeanaries128]

Jackie Aina has also spoken a lot about the algorithm, for it to show you black creators in your feed you have to actively engage with video's otherwise it will only steer you towards white creators -_- (also good to support the creators themselves with likes and comments of course

[@nicolem2877]

ShakeitlikeanAries 😡 😡😡😡😡 This makes me so mad!

[@NT-rm8jm]

I completely understand! I'm beyond tired of the algorithms. Anything educational that I click on does not pop up in my timeline. I have clicked on many trading videos but they never pop up in my timeline, I always have to search. I get nothing but Real Housewives commentary, and gossip channels suggested to me. I'm going to take a day out to just click like on random videos to change my algorithm. It's so sad that KZbin has determined the box for me. I don't watch any reality shows. I can't stand them! I don't like how the women act in them, I don't like how they are portrayed, I just don't like it! I don't understand why they constantly put that in my timeline no matter what else I watch. Is so annoying and discriminative!

[@soaribb32]

The music industry is not giving us variety.

[@mademsoisellerhapsody1868]

or music

[@hannahlee6]

i think the scariest thing abt the internalised male gaze (and therefore the cause of denying its existence by so many women, myself included initially) is the idea that we were basically tricked by men again into enjoying things that we thought were for ourselves, but were really for their enjoyment. what i mean by this is how im realizing that things that i originally thought were to reclaim my sexuality only really catered to men. thats not to say that these things are bad or shouldnt be enjoyed, but the exclusion of bipoc women (esp in the media etc) in having the ability to choose "sexual liberation," instead of being coerced to do it, takes away from the feminist movement. but again, just this realization is both heartbreaking and infuriating enough to make me want to stop thinking about it completely. anyway, this video was amazing and so informative and im so glad i can have more perspectives on whether or not "sexual liberation" is truly empowering to women. at the end of the day, im still going to do things if it makes me feel good about myself, but i will definitely be more picky in whether or not i call the things im doing part of the feminist movement. did anyone else get here from the rise of bimboification video?

[@jessicathompson2895]

Wow. Just wow. This is one of the most amazingly thought out, incredible video essays I've ever heard. I can't even begin to express how spot on and hard hitting every one of your points were. I've watched this three times in a row and sent it to every woman I know. I feel like this should be required viewing and taken to heart by every single one of us, if people just listened. But damn girl, good work!👏👏👏👏👏

[@LemonSte]

You looking STUNNING! this whole look is so great on you

[@martamagolon]

THIS gives me wings. And some takeaway reading. Thanks for the homework!

[@sarahnunez318]

She said what she said and she said what was needed to be said.

[@MEOWMIX3DS]

you sound and talk like a kind and warm teacher. in short, you make me feel happy! love the questions you brought up too, they made me think about things deeper big time!

[@soulpick2568]

Your points on consumers as coercive and active participators in keeping those with our likeness in a box ...that we enjoy them as "avatars for our own repressed sexuality". WOWWW!! We absolutely maintain codependent relationships with our black and brown celebrities, and it is apparent in soooo many ways.

[@__CJLORRAINE__]

This was a WORD and then some, this Sunday morning. I church-hand waved a few times during the vid. Kim, you often admit to not having the answers but you DEFinitely raise great questions. Already a patron. So thank you for continuing to urge us to think a thing through, down to the uncomfortable bits, which always seems to encourage some level of self-reflection. Much needed and much appreciated.

[@tonyasmith1917]

I hope you become a professor. We need people like you to enlighten the masses!

[@no1inparticular487]

"we have reclaimed things without questioning them" YEEEASSSS. thankyou so much for this video, it was so in depth in such a short amount of time and has helped me clear up a lot of things i was confused about

[@queenstacey1]

You put into words how I Feel!!! I only pray black women get it and understand it as soon as possible.

[@nabisere5894]

issa pandemic lol

[@pinky15ification]

Girl, you so right. I think all the black women singers who don't do vids like this. Their level of success is not there

[@TheMorganVEVO]

And THAT’S what I’m more concerned about. It’s literally the only market we have at this point. Yet, nobody seems to notice a problem (except for Kim, of course).

[@rhondaparham7137]

Here's the thing. We keep talking about agency and empowerment, but even here on this platform, the collective thought is disempowering, accepting the notion that the only way for black female artists to "secure the bag" is by selling explicit sexual content. If we women want diversity in our musical and media representation, we must choose it! Let's "own" our complicity in elevating this myopic, overly sexualized view of black womanhood -- and change course! Our true strength lay in our extensive creativity, fearlessness, and collective purchasing power -- not the"power" of the pussy!

[@TheMorganVEVO]

Rhonda Parham 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@mademsoisellerhapsody1868]

Shirley Horn

[@mademsoisellerhapsody1868]

Shirley Horn was an incredibly successful singer/pianist and never did videos like that.

[@rowanclevely6789]

You are so incredibly charismatic, this is an incredible video. I learned so much and I was enchanted as it happened. 10/10 for presenting very good points which are potentially difficult to comprehend in a way that's interesting, that flows well, and is easy to follow. Thank you. I will be sharing this with everyone I know.