Former MI5 & MI6 Heads On The Iraq War, Double Agents & Today's Best Secret Services | The Two Spies

[@LeadingTRIP]

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[@junkbucket50]

You have to get Eliza back on she's so straight talking and no nonsense. It's like a breath of fresh air

[@sherlockgnomes8971]

I wish we could have a PM like that 😂 not going to happen any time soon unfortunately😢

[@richsan4923]

These cretins do far more harm than good and always have.

[@sbwords]

I felt she had more to say about Campbell and his cohorts distorting around Iraq. He won’t have her back and the tame Tory ex-spook is too timid to push the issue.

[@henrytan5588]

British Intelligence is the longest agency and one of the best. The US started with the OSS from scratch and developed into the CIA . Yet the CIA still refer to the British Intelligence Stations around the world. But the UK should not be have a person like Edgar J Hoover. The ISI of Pakistan always tell the politicians that ISI is always there but not them.

[@mspenelope6874]

Straight talking double agent. Yeah right.

[@davidlamb7524]

Virtually the whole country knew that. When Bush said "Iraq" we were all screaming at the telly "Wtf's Iraq got to do with it ?".

[@frankmahoney1268]

OIL.

[@davidlamb7524]

@@frankmahoney1268 Yes. And smoke-screen cover for the actual culprits.

[@CYCHIATRIC]

Well they're both spies and the other two are politicians. You don't expect them to tell the truth do you?

[@annalehman93941]

​@@frankmahoney1268you read my thoughts, how?

[@Joe3pops]

In Canada most Canadians, including our left leaning(marxist) prime minister smelled sh!te when George in 2003 turned the shell game from Afghanistan to Iraq. So glad Canada did not become involved in Iraq 2.0 family fued. Bush versus Saddam.

[@PhillipHilton]

The quality of the guests on this podcast and the maturity of the conversations is breathtaking. It's absolutely fascinating to listen to guests of this standard being interviewed in such a capable manner.

[@stephenhardy312]

I agree completely with your comments. A very articulate, well-informed and worldly contribution

[@ninopavkovic9382]

Morally seen, those individuals from the British Sectret Services, are the equivalent of the agent Smith from the movie "Matrix". Only in the domestic bubble they appear like somebody positive. For the rest of the world, they are wrongdoers of the worst category.

[@ghotio1927]

They're literally spies who lie and cheat for a living and you trust what they're saying ? more fool you sir

[@MarkSiosal]

1:08:39 1:08:39

[@CallousCarter]

​@@stephenhardy312 Thery'e certainly articulate but I don't think they're well informed or insightful. With Intel chiefs like these it doesn't surprise me that we are continuing to lurch from one self made strategic disaster to another.

[@scottblack9213]

Campbell hosting this particular podcast is the equivalent of Alec Baldwin being judge and jury in his own personal manslaughter trial.

[@UK_Ash]

💯💯💯

[@redmed10]

How so?

[@epistulaexmortuus]

Lol you assume the party to be way more cohesive and autocratic than it is. Opinions internal and external from members are not necessarily the same. A good party member in the uk follows the party line regardless of their own feelings or opinion welcome to first past the post politics

[@mattliamjack3293]

Boris johnson going to party in italy with kgb agent without telling security should be in çourt being a traotor..like trump showing secrets to foreigners. Both traitors.

[@E-Kat]

@@redmed10Campbell was an advisor to Tony Blair, and he was responsible for a dossier indicating that Sadam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction , therefore justifying the invasion of Iraq!! The dossier was largely plagiarised from student dissertation , written about five years before, with added lies!! Google it, as it makes me feel ill having to write this all. Our country, together with the USA, has caused thousands of deaths of innocent people, many of them little children. It was all over the control of oil supply. Now, Iraq has to pay the US building companies for rebuilding Iraq and they charge a 100 thousand dollars for a shoddy room without foundations!! I saw a documentary about how the US continue to profit from the invasion of Iraq!!😭

[@Time12345A]

"IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 911" MY HEART BLEEDS FOR ALL THE INNOCENT SOULS THAT LOST THEIR LIVES IN THAT ILLEGAL AND FALSE WAR!!! 💔

[@neiltitmus9744]

That's what everyone was saying at the time but we're told there was sensitive information we could not see that confirmed that Iraq had wmd ,at that point I said to mys3lf OK but if not then you are all for it .these people still have not payed this bill and probably never will.5hen USA wanted Tony Blair to be middle east envoy you can't make this up.lol

[@canadiangemstones7636]

What about the Kuwaiti’s? Your heart feel anything for them?

[@Pauliewalnuts_822]

​​@@canadiangemstones7636Are you seriously taking that position still after everything the anti war movement said is, and was, 100% accurate? Give your head a wobble.

[@Time12345A]

@canadiangemstones7636 What does Kuwait have to do with the fabricated Iraq war that cost more than a million innocent people their lives and homes? How do you feel so many people losing their lives/livelyhood, I wonder?

[@Time12345A]

@@Pauliewalnuts_822 ♥️

[@Du5ty999]

Loved the contrast between Eliza and John - one very clearly a straight-talking career Intelligence Officer and the other a very skilful diplomat.

[@peterwilliams6114]

Not how I'd have put it but yeah .....I'd much rather spend an evening out with Eliza than John - we'd get a bit closer to the truth [ whatever that means these days ? ] .

[@crippsverse]

I think this is my favourite KZbin video. As a Secondary School pupil, I really liked Eliza Manningham-Buller and don't care about her background. She cut through crap like a hot knife.

[@EdwardLindon]

We tend to use the hot knife for butter...

[@Barnabydemossienaux]

@@ObePawnKenobiaristocrat.

[@rhobatbrynjones7374]

This is probably the most intelligent and fascinating broadcast that The Rest is Politics has ever done.

[@alanbarker2279]

It certainly had a lot do with Intelligence... 😛

[@kesart8378]

"Mistakes were made," said an entrant in the Understatement Of The Year competition.

[@TheoverseasPakistani-sz1bb]

Yeah 😂. What a bunch of lies they speak even now. They all.knew it was an illegal war back then.

[@YA-hm5zy]

No mistakes all calculated and planned. With the complicity of the media.

[@rob14]

Yet they continue with their stupidity with the anti trump propaganda and ignoring reality.

[@Cjohn31]

Mistake? Sure. And Biden is just bad at his job

[@colinstewart1432]

Presumably mistakes by someone. The use of the passive tense is particularly annoying.

[@catesby4788]

How does Mr Campbell sit in on this discussion with a straight face. Wasn't he the person who helped Blair lie his way into the Iraq war, despite massive opposition from other European countries and the British electorate. Did Campbell think that over 1 million of us on the streets of London were protesting about the weather?

[@robert-gs4ih]

How Campbell has the bare faced cheek to discuss Iraq is beyond me. He has no shame but then again, we all knew that.

[@chindit6784]

Because one of the spies were literally involved in the new Iraqi government. You would complain if he had said something or said nothing.

[@LowlierThanThow]

Exactly what I was thinking. How preposterous; the sheer audacity of Alistair Cambell. Shamelessness taken to new levels here.

[@robert-gs4ih]

@@LowlierThanThow Him, Blair and Brown should be totally embarrassed to show their faces in public.

[@farzanamughal5933]

You'd rather he was silent about the topic?

[@chindit6784]

@@farzanamughal5933 these people will complain whatever he says.

[@katejones2172]

I don't know how Campbell has got the gall to sit there & discuss Iraq

[@michellegilder1558]

They keep diverting when it gets too close to him …..as he squirms in his seat

[@theresabates6058]

I forced myself to Listen to this excellent discussion as I loathe Campbell. The brass neck of him to sit there not acknowledging his part in the lies surrounding 9/11. What a treasure Eliza is

[@Thewestisthevirus]

Same here. She knows about Campbell and is giving him a slap

[@amnaali2688]

They are all threat to the world. Every single one of them sitting on this panel.

[@Gunni1972]

@@Thewestisthevirus You call that a slap? Once the Empirical mindset takes a foothold again, you will notice that it usually is delivered by a whip. She is afraid of trump, because he threatens to take away that whip, and use it for HIS agenda.

[@colinstewart1432]

Her father was a Nuremburg judge, I believe. Her credentials are flawless.

[@lw1zfog]

@@colinstewart1432 hmmmm, did he sentence Fritz ter Meer ?

[@delharry4392]

Mistakes, millions died a mistake That's why we are hated Mistakes were made Unbelievable

[@keesverhagen9227]

No mistakes. The same as what They did in Iran and Ukraine. The US and the UK combined equels Evil.

[@samanthagarbettcharles4205]

They make ya sick ,a mistake ! 😢

[@naijaman6639]

When you make this point, thèy call you names and try to smear you. Terrible hypocrites. Shameless KZbin, I await your acts of deleting.

[@luchseterna]

English are so incredibly self loathing. You should look clearly what other countries have done. Past is in the past. For me as a foreigner Great Britain was a great empire and now a great land suffering from self destroying politics.

[@rogerroger9927]

Sorry those are liars. USA and UK knew that Iraq had nothing to do with9/11 and Iraq had no WMD. They invaded Iraq for 2 raison; 1 for the oil and 2 to destroy military power ( remember that USA and UK armed Iraq against Iran).

[@Hunchbacc]

Wasn’t Campbell the one who made the invasion of Iraq “sexy” and got up on Newsnight lecturing us. I wish David Kelly was here to be asked some questions. Oh wait, that was Campbells first body.

[@colintook3357]

Poor David Kelly would have been a great addition to the conversation here around Iraq, would have certainly got Campbell squirming.

[@denythenaysayer]

Kelly wasn't "working for the good of the country" so had to go....😉

[@sherlockgnomes8971]

@@denythenaysayerHave some bleeding respect , your emoji just makes this comment very twisted.

[@blondie7341]

Thank god someone else made this connection. I cannot believe Campbell is being praised here after that performance on Newsnight!! 🤬

[@howwwwwyyyyy]

​@@sherlockgnomes8971I'm fairly sure David Kelly would have no problem with the use of an emoji when someone is clearly pointing out that he was murdered

[@harrygreenaway]

"Are you writing the Labour Manifesto Alistair?" 😂 Eliza is superb.

[@yasmeensaleem9074]

Wow. I loved this! We need more openness and transparent honesty! In particular Eliza, respected her bluntness and honesty.

[@benjaminrich9396]

It is only due to the quality of these two guests that I could stomach an hour and a quarter of a conversation in which Alastair Cambell was present.

[@honeyflower7754]

Absolutely agree; I cannot stomach ‘Squealer’ from Animal Farm. No wonder he is racked with guilt and in therapy.

[@Amarjeet1970]

EMB came across as knowledgeable and formidable. Glad that she was forthright in calling out the hoax that was Iraq & I noticed Alistair keeping mum at that point.

[@PauloAdriano-zo2ng]

Any chance average Iraqi citizens could sue the British & American governments for reparations? 🤔

[@parkgate-ub1ey]

​@PauloAdriano-zo2ng and where would that money come from? Tax payers ? Then no thanks we pay far too much

[@ChrisoKyriacou]

These people I don’t know about the lady but laughing after being part of and causing the deaths of over 2 million civilians and I forget how many children died of starvation. The British and western media forgot to tell us. Is disgraceful. If America and British acted honestly with other countries instead of stealing their natural resource there would not be a need for spy’s. It’s the bullying that other countries can’t accept.

[@abdihussein4872]

I appreciate the part where she addresses Islamophobia and acknowledges that some of their assets are Muslims who are willing to sacrifice their lives in order to protect those who incite hate speech towards them.

[@richardfraser1562]

Thanks all. Such a pleasure to listen to thoughtful people taking like adults.

[@alexanderjacobs1945]

It’s scary that they’re sitting there constantly avoiding the fact that ALISTAIR CAMPELL was instrumental in confusing and supporting the event that led to Iraq. Be sure to remember that all the analysis of this horrible conflict (on HIS podcast) will only seek to exonerate himself

[@Lattakeoff]

You don’t think they may have supported his view at the time or been complicit in the whole sorry saga ...?

[@willdon.1279]

Sigh - the blind prejudice is too deep, and 16.25 on won't clear it...

[@mandyshanks2327]

I wish Alistair would admit that he was indirectly involved in the death of Dr Kelly. He has no sense of guilt.

[@tommyi6667]

I agree regarding Dr Kelly but in the kindest possible way, this is a podcast and even though we may pick up on items we never knew I would assume that Alastair and moreover were and are under the Secrets Act, we will all be dead and buried and even then our great, great grandchildren possibly will not know. Is it justified regarding Dr Kelly, No but as they say"we couldn't handle the truth ".

[@DavidJohnson-yg8qm]

They think we have forgotten this so called suicide.

[@Gunni1972]

I wished Alistair would stop contradicting himself.1) "No. Regime change is not our aproach" Seriously? And not a minute later, he comes up with Which countries could be "added to the list" in which we did. 2) He sees Trump as a threat to NATO (When NATO is the USA's threat to everybody else) and a threat that Article 5 loses it's meaning. Well, how convenient is that? NOW, when Ukraine is losing, and actually NO one wants to support them. Same with Israel, who is slaughtering civillians, even foreign aid workers. USA is FULLY supporting it. And all because of a Pipeline from Gaza to Italy. because a certain Syrian "Dictator" did not want one built through his country. Also, Saddam had used his Chemical weapons in the Iran-Iraq war. They have an expiring date. So pretty much every "specialist" who knew they were used, also knew, there wouldn't be any anymore. Saddam was forced into that war by the USA, just like Zelensky. As a revenge for the revolution against their Shah. Alistair should at least tell half of the story, If he wants to "regain trust". He looks really bad. And to ethics and Morals i say: Regime change is often bloody. WHO is held accountable for such "Operations"? as it often contains MURDER, RAPE, INTIMIDATION and THEFT. And i am not even touching How the City of London, The IMF, and the ECB force nations into Debt traps,by trade agreements, which eventually leads to "certified Nutjobs" like Milei, in Argentina. Colonial Force Projection. THAT seems to have been YOUR JOB. Well hidden from Public, Alistair.

[@colinstewart1432]

Many believe he leaked the name...🤔

[@matildamarmaduke1096]

​@@LeeGeetroll

[@gammamaster1894]

The absolute cheek of Alastair Campbell to sit there talking about Iraq and dishonesty in politics.

[@andyainsworth9804]

This podcast should be mandatory for secondary school students. Its so refreshing to hear intelligent people having a well thought out conversation. Great episode :)

[@HaniaTauqeer-c2k]

As a year 10 student, I agree

[@PauloAdriano-zo2ng]

​@@HaniaTauqeer-c2k 😉

[@fghezelbash8731]

"intelligent people"?!!!!!

[@Thewestisthevirus]

They also need to know the history of what happened

[@davidhale8034]

​@@fghezelbash8731Yes.

[@austerymn]

This was one of THE BEST podcasts I’ve ever seen. Incredibly informative

[@chrispalmer7893]

Slightly confused why the quote "Iraq had nothing to with 9/11" is the thumbnail. Isn't that a bit like quoting someone as saying that on a sunny day the sky is blue? Are there really still (sane) people who are unclear about that?

[@Joe-og6br]

In America it was really pushed on the public that they were linked. In the UK it was WMD.

[@ferozabismilla637]

​@@Joe-og6brand I am sure that only in America, do some people still think that, that is still the case

[@chrispalmer7893]

@@LeeGee Doesn't matter who said it if all that was said is a banal truism. It might be interesting if the person saying it was contradicting their previous position (it would be extremely newsworthy if Dick Cheney or George W Bush was saying it - well, Cheney, anyway, Bush probably has admitted it at some point). But the ex-head of MI5 saying now what they were saying then and what has been accepted for decades is unremarkable. At the risk of talking myself out of this, maybe it's remarkable that she felt she had to say it? It suggests she thinks there is a signfiicant number of people who still believe Saddam was behind 9/11. Beyond the reality that there are always lunatics and idiots I'm not convinced those people exist, but maybe she thinks they do?

[@chrispalmer7893]

@@Fukcthematrix I think it's going far too far to call the attack on the towers a distraction. From the attacker's perspective it has obvious merit in and of itself; it was certainly more effective at generating terror and provoking a response. Not sure 9/11 would have quite the stature it has today if it was just the assault on the Pentagon. Would still be shocking and memorable, but the Pentagon attack doesn't have the same impact as the TV footage of the planes hitting and towers and the towers falling (not to mention the significantly reduced death toll; if memory serves the part of the Pentagon that was hit had fewer people in it that it would usually have had at that time, but even fully populated it wouldn't have been close to the numbers who died in New York).

[@ramseyr2852]

And equally true, the statement lacks any real meaning. So what?

[@Du5ty999]

Easily the best Leading episode so far. Astonishingly frank and open - detail included I didn't think would be okay to mention. Shame there isn't a part 2.

[@mattblack6736]

The way Eliza teleported out of the studio was most impressive.

[@billder2655]

like yoda in episode 6😂

[@HighLordBlazeReborn]

"aight imma head out ✌🏻"

[@minton3647]

I’d just like to say this was one of the most interesting and informative podcasts I’ve ever listened to. Truly excellent stuff, thank you. I have a huge amount of respect for the people who work in military intelligence and devote their lives to the protection of our nation’s values.

[@jodywho6696]

That is 1 reason for putting Bush jr. and Cheney in prison. It absolutely had nothing to do with 9/11

[@Stillmorning]

Maybe Campbell can do a stint with them

[@dougieranger]

And Tony Blair.

[@rogerroger9927]

Sorry those are liars. USA and UK knew that Iraq had nothing to do with9/11 and Iraq had no WMD. They invaded Iraq for 2 raison; 1 for the oil and 2 to destroy military power ( remember that USA and UK armed Iraq against Iran).

[@pauldeanda7100]

That will be the day!

[@gerriperreault6905]

Harpers covered that but Obama decided not to.

[@DailyDamage]

What I truly enjoy about this channel - parroting other comments posted here - is the quality of both guests and the “grown up” conversations being held. We’re not all deaf and dumb to the realities of real politics. Thanks for treating us like adults. 😊

[@michaelladouceur8894]

Superb. Insightful. Engaging. Thank you all. BTW, I’d never heard of Eliza before - a real gem of a human being. I wish her more influence in the future.

[@zak-v3u]

Eliza is just awesome !!! and her commitment to hold morality and decency in a role where it can easily be challenged is amazing

[@Pincer88]

Been listening with ever increasing amounts of respect. So good to listen to people who'd normally never seek the limelight.

[@gwj312a]

Outstanding podcast. Having such intelligent public servants talk about their roles, etc is so refreshing

[@suhailski]

Get the two spies their own podcast: rest is espionage?

[@robc8892]

Or the the rest is classified 🤣

[@suhailski]

@@robc8892 hahah, your title is way better than mine.

[@DCMamvcivmEvony]

Would be awesome. A podcast along similar lines that you may enjoy is called "the hacker and the fed". A podcast where an ex black hat hacker and the FBI agent that dealt with his case and prosecuted him discuss all things hacking, cybersecurity, scams etc. Its pretty good.

[@Thewestisthevirus]

Yes!

[@SpiritOfMontgomery]

@@robc8892the rest is [redacted]

[@DanC-o7y]

Without a doubt the most interesting, intriguing and informative video I've ever watched on KZbin. Fascinating individuals. Superb episode.

[@ianjames3078]

Rory backtracking rapidly after being called out for exaggerating was a gem.

[@regarded9702]

Made me grin every time.

[@NoughtsAndCrossess]

Wonderful conversation! Fantastic hosting of fantastically interesting guests!

[@darrendrew1281]

One of the best videos I’ve watched in a long time, glued to the video from beginning to end. Well done chaps

[@reginaldamoah8608]

I think the child who brought up Lumumba was spot on how confident are we that we've been on the right side of history. Also getting a job via a tap on the shoulder at dinner party wow!

[@nomsashezi9775]

That tap on the shoulder really made me pause…either WOW or she is having a laugh at us

[@casteretpollux]

Britain is a class society.

[@kingeddiam2543]

That was a long time ago, though im sure it still probably happens to some extent

[@j.johnson3520]

Things certainly have come a long way, and this interview clearly indicates it's been an enormous success. Engaging and insightful, and who knows, perhaps it even recruited a few a long the way. Great interview.

[@philipwhiuk]

Amongst the best single podcast episode I've ever listened too. Thanks!

[@whipporel]

Eliza is so refreshing to listen to. No quibbling on accountability

[@FONASDeadlock]

Given the litany of stupidity we hear from members of the current government, it's reassuring to hear the voices of informed experts.

[@ianjames3078]

And our political leaders would rubbish our public servants given a risk to their egos.

[@EppingBlogger]

What a shame, then, that the security services allowed themselves to become handmaidens to the Blair lies to Parliament about a causus beli in Iraq.

[@Burdetski]

Dr Kelly RIP

[@Ryan4Labour]

MPs personal conduct is often utter toilet gutter.

[@antonomaseapophasis5142]

21:04 “Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11” I remember walking through London in protest, along with hundreds of thousands of people who explained this with specific documentation and fact-based reasoning.

[@antonomaseapophasis5142]

I should mention that I am a US citizen born in Brooklyn, resident in NYC on 9/11, who had seen the places attacked in Dar es Salaam, knew a little about the Levant, visited the trials in Lower Manhattan, and that I would run into antipathy in the US when I would point out that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

[@truthseeker8581]

Two brilliant guests with their feet firmly on the ground! I thought we had lost such sensible folk!

[@vertigohi114]

You can tell she’s enormously competent, mature, and likely ruthless. Exactly the type of dedicated person you’d want at the head of a service like MI6.

[@naradaian]

4 extremely creepy and smug denialists

[@RealMalta-fx4sx]

Then why is she in on this comfy chat with 3 other people who coordinated and covered up the Iraq WMD lies and murdered David Kelly? She didn't call anyone to account but she knows the truth. We can all be ruthless btw.

[@kenrunciman8706]

Campbell was complicit in the great deception. His levels of self-deception are beyond measurement.

[@Dcc-yk2lo]

I'm sure you have some evidence? Feel free to post it. Why was he cleared of wrongdoing in all of the Inquiries about the Iraq war?

[@craigpruess5565]

@@Dcc-yk2lo- getting the gov’t to investigate itself never works, despite all the smug appearances of an “independent investigation”… 🤣🤣🤣

[@annthecatlady4430]

This is one of the best conversations we have had. And I've got the pleasure of listening to.

[@TheSackblabbath]

Eliza is excellent. Outstanding guests. Thanks, guys.

[@Mike20216]

Really enjoyed listening to both, fascinating discussion, so much good sense, speaking from 40-50 years of public service experience.

[@SamMerchant-vn4or]

Alistair sitting innocently like he never advocated for the war, never rounded up the troops

[@benwilson6145]

He was not a member of hr Government, he was an advisor,

[@dilonkumar4960]

@@benwilson6145oh please his hands are drenched in blood like yours ,let’s see how you would react if children are killed

[@benwilson6145]

@@dilonkumar4960 Remove your head from your bottom and pretend to have a brain!

[@heycidskyja4668]

@@benwilson6145 That makes his actions worse rather than excuse him.

[@ftumschk]

Leaving the "advocacy" aside, he certainly never rounded up any troops.

[@kdmarrison8845]

An interview involving journalist Peter Oborne, author of Not the Chilcot Report, & Richard Dearlove & John Scarlett would be very illuminating.

[@tonyaustin4472]

Interesting discussion. I keep banging on about Gaza/Israel and hoping someone, other than me, recognises that this crisis isn’t just about the Hamas atrocity; it is a continuation of events that started in the year I was born, 1948 and the Nakba. You displace a population that’s been there for hundreds of years, you steal their land, settle it with your own people; you oppress the refugees, you let Lebanese militias murder men, women and children in refugee camps, you even divert the water supplies away from their remaining land, you build walls round the small areas you’ve allowed them to retain, you let your settlers run riot, kill their animals, burn their orchards; the list goes on and on; and then, when the inevitable happens and they revolt, you murder men, women, children, foreign aid workers, medical staff; you even kill your own hostages who are trying to tell you that they are Israelis: this cycle of theft, atrocities, repression has to stop or be stopped. And if the Israeli State won’t act, won’t change; then the West has to. There are enough on both sides who recognise that the future has to be a viable Palestinian State and a viable Israeli State at peace with each other. Whether you are a Palestinian or an Israeli; that is the only humanitarian chance your children and grandchildren can have of living a decent secure life. If this isn’t sorted, and sorted soon, there will a massive war eventually in the Middle East with death and destruction on a scale far in excess of today. Now some folk will react to this by classifying me as anti-semitic. I have close friends on both sides: I grew up with friends who’s mothers and fathers survived the Concentration camps in Germany and Poland….so don’t jump to that antisemitic assumption please! It’s being used too often as a political excuse in my opinion. I am an old man and it grieves me to my soul to witness what I see happening day after day in Gaza, the West Bank and in Israel and to know just by bitter experience that it will happen again if wiser heads do not prevail…and if necessay do not enforce.

[@khar12d8]

1948? The Romans burning down the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD was when it started.

[@Mounhas]

I was also born in 1948 and only wish I had your clarity in expressing in what I think. For me, what has happened in Palestine is comparable to what happened to the native peoples of Australia, Canada & the USA.

[@flangekiwi]

Thank you for your eloquence and humanity ❤💔❤ For all our children and grandchildren, we must do better than this #OnePlanet 🌎

[@ashhowardgolf3865]

And how about the Kurds?? Always conveniently forgotten

[@catinthehat906]

The problem is a significant proportion of the Palestinian population don't want "a viable Palestinian State and a viable Israeli State at peace with each other". No surprise that the one election held in Gaza in the last 20 years elected a party whose stated intention was the destruction of Israel.

[@Jake-hw9kp]

“Mistreatment of detainees” is a pretty wild way of labelling torture.

[@wanderlustchap]

As Eliza insinuated the Iraq Dossier was Campbell’s (bullying) work…

[@letssee5213]

​@ObePawnKenobi she said Campbell was very much behind the dossier which was later found to be inaccurate. CIA also concluded 9/11 was nothing to do with Iraq

[@scottchadburn1535]

That was fantastic. Truly fascinating, thank you to all involved.

[@mandyshanks2327]

Campbell was wrong. I wish he would admit it.

[@andrewharrison7767]

I wish he'd be as vehement in his confession as he is whenever brexit gets raised

[@casteretpollux]

I wish he was in jail.

[@Gazpacho8]

@@andrewharrison7767 I wonder if he regrets helping sink labour in 2019 considering how much he hates Johnston, oh dear if only there were an alternative!

[@ianbartlett7315]

I don’t think anyone who wasn’t there and wasn’t party to the discussions can possibly know. My question, as always to those who claim that Blair and Campbell were clearly wrong, is this: what would have been the outcome had we not joined America? They were going anyway, so what would have been better? Or would it have been worse?

[@Gazpacho8]

@@ianbartlett7315 I think that if you exclude the Iraq war, and its fall out the Blair government would be remembered very differently and Blair himself would certainly have a much more positive legacy with the public all other things being equal.

[@silversmoke6]

Ugh i could listen to Eliza talk all day. Does she do any lectures or talks?

[@ferociousfrankie]

Amazing episode again. The quality of this podcast is unmatched. Super insightful in a short amount of time. The candidness of these individuals compared to their U.S. counterparts is very much appreciated.

[@RalphBrooker-gn9iv]

I served several tours of Op Banner, one tour working on direct intelligence (as opposed to the general strategic intelligence overview that drives ‘green’ operations’). I left the army in a bad psychological way. Went to university to study philosophy and cognitive science. I applied to MI5 but was rejected having passed some initial filters (eg. Watson-Glaser test). Listening to Eliza I have increased confidence in that service’s selection process. NB. On the Nolan principles. The late Bernard Williams’ last book, *Truth & Truthfulness* , is a must-read for anyone interested in the issues raised here.

[@huwjones1817]

Rare glimpse into our intelligence system....great episode.

[@nicolaischartauandersen8796]

One of the most interesting podcasts on this show and in general. So many takeaways; personally, I think Eliza's face when she mentioned 1983 and how close the world came to nuclear war was chilling and thought-provoking. How come noone ever really talks about this?? The nuclear war heads are still there, and the lesson is people with fingers on the buttons are not rational robots - they are people. That's truly fritghtening.

[@wattyler6075]

Excellent interview with incredibly interesting guests.

[@Pricklyhedgehog72]

Absolutely riveting and an insightful analysis of world issues, while lifting the shroud covering the back room operations of international espionage and diplomacy.

[@josephturner7569]

I was on a run ashore in Brixham from Courageous in 75. We were a sneaky boat. A young chap from MI5 joined us. Stood out like a sore thumb. (His mission was to find out how much of a security risk we were when drunk. Which is why he stood many rounds. Which was nice).

[@peterreston6478]

An excellent forum including very experienced people who we rarely have an opportunity to listen to.

[@jz7692]

Listening now I find it ludicrous that there was not sufficient oversight to challenge the governments view, in order to avoid an occasion where a weapon expert felt they had to make a nuanced remark on the validity of evidence in consideration to their own assessment of Iraq's WMD capability. (The claims appeared to be quietly withdrawn as fast they were made, as if the projection in parliament was indeed for effect). The subsequent assault on public servants & institutions who basically questioned the logic were basically told 'it not in the national interest'. It therefore begged the question what was? The weakening of BBCs impartiality, to establish 'a yes men culture' arguably dismissed scrutiny to the point, the conditioning to be patronising for the listener. Tony Blair with his augments, did not make sense at the time! How to avoid conflict is supposed to be the key!

[@ianjones883]

Its good to see that our secret services / civil service are political and are outside of the government influencing goverment . So who do they work for????

[@PJM273]

Rory trying to pretend he isn't/wasn't 6 is quite funny ... :)

[@jonathonjubb6626]

That answers a nagging question. It's not just me...

[@robc8892]

If you read his book about walking across Afghanistan it is clear from.how he describes things he has had some sort of training by someone.....

[@senorpillarblock3050]

​@markdaly1648 I'll be honest, I'm deeply confused by both of your comments. Are you Irish or American? It'll help understand your comment

[@realJPRC]

I always thought Rory was Mi6, why else would he have walked across Afghanistan if not for intelligence gathering? Just seemed so obvious to me that it didn’t need to be said. Also his connections worldwide.. it’s just so obvious

[@markdaly1648]

​@@senorpillarblock3050I'm Irish

[@wendykelling7738]

This was superb. Wonderful learning. Thanks to you all.

[@jackganley1787]

Amazing content! Keep it up lads

[@garethwonham]

What a brilliant episode. Exactly how interviews should be done

[@oliverbergfeld1606]

Interesting to listen to these first hand insights and summaries of our more recent history. Basically they agree that much was fixed in the context of Iraq. One question of many that remain is, if the UK will ever find the backbone to go against US intentions. Looking at that episode it seems quite obvious, that the intelligence services were more a tool to rectify than to investigate thoroughly. To remain measured the latter seems a more sane approach as we in Europe are more often than not suffering the consequences of actions.

[@RobBCactive]

Like passing on the Vietnam war and protesting against the US invasion of Grenada?

[@oliverbergfeld1606]

@@RobBCactive was the baton really passed on though or was it eagerly grasped by the US..? Not sure and honestly do not really care all that much. As for Grenada, the Monroe Doctrine did that for you

[@casteretpollux]

US strategy since the end of the USSR has been " Disaggregation of Europe". The negative outcomes of US actions on Europe / the UK, can't be assumed to be accidental. Europe, severed from Russian gas and oil, is now a set of vassal states to the US. Gaza as well as the Ukraine war is being wrecked in part in the struggle fro control of oil. .

[@Ianjeffery2500]

Outstanding in all aspects. Thank you for such quality information and entertainment

[@humphreybradley3060]

Your BEST one yet! Fantastic insight, questioning etc! Top quality, fascinating content!

[@steveh5005]

Very enjoyable. I liked the way you discussed the guests after the pod cast ended

[@ianbanks3016]

Boy, you've got to admire Campbell's front. sitting there smiling and laughing about the panic, misery and chaos caused by the aftermath of the invasion of Iraq. Utterly shameless.

[@TheoverseasPakistani-sz1bb]

Shameless!!!! Shameless!!! So many lives lost and he was in part responsible for making it happen.

[@KevenHutchinson-gt1nn]

He also did some bad things as well.

[@Kavala76]

51:54 "...they, by and large, are exceptions" 🤣 Sawer appeared to me to be sanitising of intelligence work, and this segment just confirmed it. Manningham-Buller seemed more genuine.

[@casteretpollux]

As the CIA guy said not so long ago " they taught us to lie and cheat". Secret services are by definition obliged to lie constantly.

[@waynekerr8719]

Is this Podcast available on Spotify or other platforms than KZbin?

[@peacefulpleb]

Great discussion, well done for getting these two intelligence big beasts in a joint interview. Thanks.

[@RealMalta-fx4sx]

7:48 you stumbled over your words Rory so I listened closely. That was a giveaway.

[@jimb9063]

Fabulous interesting guests, thank you.

[@JonathanJones-i7w]

What an incredibly smooth and well conducted interview. Each guest was given time to communicate their thoughts and were gently prodded at the right moments without it being received as an interruption. Seriously high quality work here. I’m extremely impressed. I have just subscribed to the channel, and I’m excited for what’s to come. Thanks again for what you do. For a commoner like myself, It is very much appreciated.

[@HarryBartok-e6x]

Blair didn’t care that Iraq didn’t have WMDs, he just wanted to become rich and famous.

[@howwwwwyyyyy]

He was already rich and famous, there's much more to it than that, one day it'll be made clear

[@captain_nero]

@@howwwwwyyyyy I heard he is due to take on WEF looool

[@Gunni1972]

@@howwwwwyyyyy It is clear: You can hear what he admires with the chinese: Collecting power, and Project power. He should work in an S/M studio.

[@colinstewart1432]

The truth proved inconvenient to his political ambition. So one million dead Iraqis later, the undead ghoul called Tony Blair still roams the earth. He sits atop a throne of skulls.

[@vinozarazzi5633]

Blair is a member of Bilderberg

[@FRM101]

Rory briefly mentions Daphne Park's career beginning @4:01 and describes a post she eventually held within MI6/SIS as 'controller.' Can anyone tell me, what is a controller?

[@laetitiavisagie-gg6kk]

I like the little boy who asked about Patrice Lumumba (I am from South Africa) ❤

[@BritBike60]

Best interview I have heard this year!

[@janwoldens1696]

😂the "nukes" threat of Iraq was Sadam's petroleum export in currencies other than the USD

[@sulevisydanmaa9981]

As w Khad ...

[@ramseyr2852]

Definitely it was one.

[@hurrichad8871]

No, it was simply the threat to Israel

[@7...7...7]

This is a very informative podcast. Great content and very intelligent people speaking truths. Subscribed.

[@Claymore5]

Fabulous and insightful as always - I just wish that all political discourse could be this intelligent and well mannered. I think more people would be engaged. Keep it up chaps!

[@vincefree]

Would loved you to have asked Eliza what her thoughts on Lizz Truss’ statement was about the president and his impact on international security

[@livingadventures5623]

I don´t think for one moment ex members of the British Secret Services could be either open or honest. Managed truths and lies at best. Alistair and Rory gave a very polished presentation as usual.

[@cashew1]

You guys are spot on... Rory legend!

[@MirrorMan369]

Thank you that there are still people that speaks the truth 🙏. Nowadays we badly need people like you ❤

[@mspenelope6874]

I thought we already knew this. Such individuals interviewed are going straight to Hell, let’s not mistake ourselves thinking they performed dignified work or served the public honorably. Such dour, sour, haughty arrogance.

[@markrichter2053]

Regime change, illegal war and interference in due process exerted by the US (51:49) From someone who pays relatively little attention, here’s is a list I’ve made myself, of places where I know the US have exerted illegal influence, if not all out war and regime change. Cold War and onward: Iraq Afghanistan Chile Granada Cuba Vietnam Guam Mexico The Philippines Hawaii Panama Honduras Nicaragua Haiti The Dominican Republic El Salvador WW2: Japan Korea East China Germany Italy Now I’m not saying that their support for the allies in WW2 was a problem. Although even here, and immediately after WW2 the style of operations of the US as a conquering force was certainly designed to effect the changes that suited their own political interests throughout, as was the case, to a lesser extent with the UK as well. For John Sawyers to suggest at 51:49 that these are exceptions, seems rather a stretch, when it really looks more like a long term strategy is behind this pattern of policy operations, rather than it being merely a few exceptions.

[@thepoweroflove3281]

And Yugoslavia NATO aircraft bombed Yugoslavia from March to June 1999 without the approval of the UN Security Council. The operation, which lasted 11 weeks, was called "Allied Force". More than 2 thousand civilians and 1 thousand military personnel became victims, more than 5 thousand people were injured, more than 1 thousand were missing.

[@Tina-b4h]

Add Australia to that list as well through the removal of goff whitlam. That particular line of thought was farcical