Formula 1 Anti-Dive Suspension Explained!

[@TommoMcCluskey]

You're a clever boy

[@isiichhracing]

hi tommo!

[@novanityinamari]

hi tommo!

[@wicklash9065]

I figure he's bright enough he could be a f1 engineer.

[@jayathranps1319]

​@@wicklash9065he was one.

[@jayathranps1319]

​@@wicklash9065at red bull iirc

[@clay3994]

I worked on suspension in college for Formula SAE and I cannot understate how complicated this stuff is, even at that level. Great job explaining this

[@brrrake]

I had to refresh my memory pretty seriously to put this one together! Really cool topic tho. Ex FSAE here also! Which university?

[@clay3994]

@@brrrake Vanderbilt, we were pretty new when I was on the team. Great memories though and certainly learned a ton

[@brrrake]

@@clay3994 if I could go back and do one thing.... It would probably be FSAE 🥺

[@lefturn99]

We looked at anti dive and anti squat in the 70s on our dirt track cars. Anti squat can give you a great traction boost on exit because it forces the tire down into the ground, making more traction. But it's tricky. If you dial in too much, it will launch hard, but run out of suspension travel (and extra bite) before the tires have enough traction. So we had to tune the anti squat to the track. Anti dive was important but not as much. Too much anti dive will lock up the pivot points of the suspension, which brings the effective spring rate to infinity. Thanks for bringing up something I have not thought of for 30 years.

[@brrrake]

It's such a cool topic - Very interesting insight from you as well!

[@96wtfomg]

The bottom line is RB is the fastest car because they overall did the best job. The package (aero, mechanics, engine...) all work together seamlessly. We have to give it to the Milton Keynes crew.

[@jayfox601]

If all teams were allowed to do what they are allowed to, they wouldn’t be the fastest. Not so impressive then right?

[@SweptSaucer]

​@@jayfox601if

[@mehdiremidi8632]

@@jayfox601 400k over the budget? WOOOOOOOOOOOW

[@mrb8710]

@@jayfox601Aston Martin went over the cost cap, don’t see you guys crying over that

[@cberns4]

@@mrb8710that is actually incorrect . They did NOT go over the cost cap. They committed a procedural error and were fined. And FYI, my opinion is that cost difference didn’t make RB faster. It just gives people and excuse instead of saying the other constructors didn’t do as well.

[@Arek-nb9pt]

As someone who is watching f1 for almost 20 years now I understand why F1 journalists are looking for a silver bullet solution in the car. We used to have tuned mass dampers, F-ducts, double and blown diffusors, split turbo and so on - single solutions granting huge advantage. Now with proscriptive ruleset that we have RB found advantage because they designed a great car where everything is working together and transplanting any single solution to other car won't automatically make that car faster. People are calling for a rule change to nerf RB, but I don't know what can be done without major change coming 2026. Whatever F1 decides to throw at them before will most likely hit other teams more than it will hurt RB similarly to what we seen with ride height change.

[@captaintoyota3171]

THIS. Changing rules b4 26 only would make gaps larger. Leave rules alone and teams will get closer n closer. As a f1 fan since early 00s i can tell u grid from 1st to last is closer than its been in decades

[@KevinJDildonik]

@@captaintoyota3171 Lots of people (even pundits) don't seem to remember how Merc came to dominate the hybrid era back when the new engine came into effect. Merc made an engine that, right out of the gate in testing, was massively more reliable and powerful than competitors. This gave them a lot of time to refine the car, running excessive downforce to use the power to make a more drivable car, while other teams were catching up. Basically - they started with such a big lead, all they ever had to do was maintain it. Red Bull and Ferrari both caught up to Mercedes in 2018-2021. Ferrari seem to have done it with an illegal engine (2019 ruling), so it set their whole program back when they had to get rid of their tricks. Red Bull did it with good old... er, money... but also general good design. There are always 2 ways to dominate an era of F1. Ferrari (and Mercedes) style, you can find a loophole in the rules and pray it remains legal. Red Bull style, you can iterate on a proven concept, which is less expensive and less risky. Given the CFD and money caps, I think Red Bull just played the game better here. It's not that Red Bull is the best car, it's that Ferrari and Merc screwed up. That gives RB a huge head start to iterate on the car while they catch up, just like Merc in the previous era.

[@RedmondBarryII]

An article with the headline: "Red Bull dominates because of full package." Doesn't get the clicks one with "THE reason Red Bull dominates" would get.

[@alesksander]

Yeah no silver bullet here indeed. Very reminiscent of Ferrari in 2000s. No really any strong point of car or solution to rule them all stood out. Those Ferraris were really well engineered. Just like those two ground effect Red Bulls, RB18 and RB19. And i m having no doubt that theirs grandchild RB20 will be monster too. No magic anti dive suspensions or floor designs or big undercuts its just "death by thousand cuts". Masterpiece.

[@ibleminen]

@@KevinJDildonikall teams looks for loopholes and Redbull certainly has a history with such.

[@druginducedfeverdream1613]

The Anti/Pro Squatting techniques you talked about probably explains how Mercedes were able to achieve their diffuser stall back in 2020/2021. Those are some of my favorite onboard footage of suspension, watching the Merc jump on the brakes at the end of a straight and watch the rear suspension assembly lift

[@ThijsSH]

All cars had the lift at the end of the straight due to the rake setup. Mercedes also had a neat rear suspension trick that lowered even further after a certain load at high speed resulting in the diffuser stall.

[@SkylineBNR34]

4 Link in slow motion on a drag strip is crazy to watch and see all that load transfer downward into the tires and the strip.

[@Luedsx]

I don’t normally comment on videos and am a massive lurker but I just gotta say I love your videos man! You’re absolutely excellent at explaining concepts and the reason behind why things are done the way they are for certain teams/drivers. You’ve got a longtime supporter/fan here and I look forward to the next video so keep it up!!

[@brrrake]

Hey thanks for taking the time to say hello and I really appreciate the compliment. I am also a total lurker amongst KZbin videos as well... So it means a lot to me! Thank you!

[@maxluthor6800]

@@brrrake can you now make a video on mercedes upgrade in 2024 of the rear suspension?

[@rolandotillit2867]

There's also the mechanical balance between front and rear axles, oversteer setup puts more load on the rear axle, understeer more load on the front. This can lead to a situation where the front axle doesn't generate enough temperature limiting ultimate grip, and vice versa. Another issue can be from the tires being just on the cusp of being in their working range, and this can lead to balance shifts mid corner as the tire is out of the window on turn in, and turn in balance is ok, but then goes into the window mid corner creating oversteer balance mid corner, then understeer balance on corner exit as the rears come up to temperature, and the fronts fall out.

[@brrrake]

Absolutely. But this is an entirely different topic.

[@rolandotillit2867]

@@brrrake Moar videos then, win win.

[@brrrake]

@@rolandotillit2867 I'm videoing as fast as I can 😅😅

[@jelkepunter5989]

Huýhýýuýhhhjhu

[@mikaelbihl-matias9462]

Oversteer = more load on the front Understeer = more load on the rear

[@NielsHeusinkveld]

What isn't made clear in most videos is that an 'anti dive' suspension comes in many shapes. You can have 100% anti dive with a nearly horizontal upper wishbone, if you angle the lower one a bit. But 100% stops the front suspension moving upwards, the car still goes down from tire compression. Just eyeballing the latest 'anti dive' suspensions, they are far greater than 100%, so that the suspension actually moves DOWN when braking, and the CAR stays at the same ride height because what the suspension moves down, the tire compresses from the load. Of course a split second later, you've lost 50kmh and the ride heights will go up as aero falls off, brake G force and thus load transfer is reduced, and the front will inevitably rise..

[@brabsky]

This style of breakdown video's are goated, Would love to see more of this. Keep it up!

[@f.kieranfinney457]

I think the more interesting question about the rear suspension of the RB is how it allows for so much squat during DRS (a soft suspension would do this) while still resisting extension under braking (a stiff suspension would do this) AND being more compliant than any other car (high anti-dive would limit this) without upsetting the performance window. That combo is the secret sauce.

[@ATTACKofthe6STRINGS]

I’m a sim racing newb who was able to “afford” a BAC mini in GT7, and all this talk of suspension geometry, ride height, aero balance, etc, is helping me understand how to get a feel for tuning the cars in the game. With a couple of upgrades to my setup so I actually have a solid mount for my racing wheel, I have a feeling the back half of this year is going to be a lot of fun for me as I’ll be able to actually enjoy the reward for some of my efforts. Just for laughs, I’m currently rocking a racing wheel that sits on a jank, homemade, race wheel mount that consists of cobbled together PVC, tensioned nylon rope, and a modified couch desk. It **technically** holds the racing wheel in **a** position, but the setup is not rigid, and the force feedback causes the entire thing to dip and dive like luxury vehicle comfort suspension setups. Being able to upgrade to a proper mount means I can suck because I suck, not because I suck on a wheel mount that’s barely more rigid than a pool noodle.

[@davestrider2045]

I’m so glad ai just watched a 15 minute video that explained to me why this thing I’d never heard of and barely understand is actually NOT the main source of RBs performance. Jokes aside it was a great video and I appreciate the deep dive.

[@rayneethling7809]

I'd say 'very good delivery' and excellent content ! Thank you !

[@brrrake]

That's very kind. Thank you!

[@jozsefmolnar6453]

I noticed a possible mistake. The lines for the anti-dive representation should be shifted to the upright pickup points. So you draw a line between the two chassis mounting points, and you have to make a parallel offset to the upright connection points. Great video btw.

[@stephensegal5187]

I always just used the intersection points of the A-arm mounting geometry to establish the mechanical amounts for dive and squat. There's a lot of other things going on here all at once with a ground effects floor compared to a purely mechanical grip design. You must first decide WHEN you need mechanical induced grip, and when you need more or less aero assistance. I always worked backwards from "Polar moment of inertia" in order to establish and define "what, how much, and when" through a given corner. I could add more to this amazingly excellent presentation, but alas Adrian is my biggest hero, and I would never want others teams to gain better understanding. I can tell you that McLaren is sniffing harder and deeper than anyone else, Thank you Blake for this, now I know exactly what Adrian is doing. 😀

[@esdsowell]

This is better than watching the races. Your doing God's work sir

[@javimillet6128]

Brrrake I love your channel, amazing content please don't stop youtube content!

[@drmerdp]

Great video. One of my favorite parts of F1 is building the knowledge and understanding behind these ever evolving feats of vehicle engineering. Nice touch with the Helmet Marko and Gunther Steiner references. 👍

[@brrrake]

Haha I'm glad you enjoyed the memes and the tech discussion! Thank you!

[@zlm001]

I still think the suspension was a key to their success that others overlooked. Without it they would be much more limited in their ability to fine tune the setup to maximize their efficient aerodynamics under many different conditions. I heard Adrian spent a lot of his time focusing on the suspension. The suspension was one of the weakest links and limiting factors in deploying the aero designs that produce the fastest lap times with these regulations. I also think that Red Bull's broader range of operating windows, plus the extra compromises that the design allows them to consider, may explain why some have said that they take longer to get the setup dialed in during practice.

[@f.kieranfinney457]

The field were busy focusing on the aero and ignored what the new cars would do to suspension and how that would impact the oh-so important ride height (and by extension downforce). Having a designer with experience in the first wave of floor-based downforce was huge. Where will RB go when Newey eventually retires?

[@gealingeman8643]

@@f.kieranfinney457 Newey has been educating and mentoring younger engineers for several years now to prepare the after Newey days

[@Aidanxme]

Loved the new video-essay kind of format this had! keep up the great work!

[@tuicks11]

Ferrari have a very "peaky" car but have good traction and top speed. Should they bring a suspension upgrade later in the year, moving in this direction like Red bull, Aston and now Mercedes , could they unlock the potential that car seems to have at times? And be contenders for race wins in the end of the year? great content, would love more stuff like this, thanks.

[@lavelafetsha]

i bloody hope so

[@mkronos02]

Advantage locked in for years

[@KevinJDildonik]

Ferrari have been notorious for pushy front ends and peaky handing in their F1 and supercars for literal decades - it was a massive problem in the prerelease Enzo. It was a big part of the problems Seb had with the team. Circa 2018 they were looking dominant thanks to what would prove to be an illegal engine, and that's what really set back the team. I think the 2018 engine concept was the basis of the 2022+ program, and when that got axed, the whole development path disappeared. These are systemic, lingering issues at the company. One suspension upgrade won't fix the culture problem. Now maybe if they stop axing team leadership and let someone like Vasseur do his job for a few seasons...

[@mkronos02]

@@KevinJDildonik tbh, it wasn't really an engine concept, it was an illegal fuel regulator that was designed to circumvent fuel flow regulations. The concept of the engine didn't really change. I agree with the first part though

[@LBNMKRS]

Traction? Where? 😅

[@jamal1493]

Great video on an complicated subject, but u made it to understand !

[@adamcassimjee532]

Honestly, your content is top notch. One of the few F1-related channels that is genuine expertise and not click-bait gossip.

[@brrrake]

I do my best to make sure the tech people get legit content and not bs

[@frankphillips5533]

THE FORCES that are transferred to the suspension comes from the torque generated by, tire grip vs the brake callipers who's placement on the brake disk radius (back side front/front side rear) act with the 'ramp' created by the linkage points to make 'anti-dive' .

[@drdvrm]

I like your presentation style and level. Spot on.

[@driftmanwrx4837]

Intrestingly similar front suspension geometry we use on off road vehicle. To minimize pitch and roll but also because during the compersion the wheel moves back and gives more contact time with the bump , which means less force on the wishbones and chassi. Really nice video!!

[@whereswaldo1191]

I have always thought off road buggy racing would benifit hugely from decoupled suspension, I would assume it is legal. There are KZbin videos on it, it was used for F1 but I think it is well suited for long suspension travels. I could be 100% wrong but it's worth a look maybe.

[@CNCTEMATIC]

Fascinating, subbed. (wonder why u keep looking at your left foot tho..)

[@MrTL3wis]

Good vid! I agree with everything except the "1mm of ride height isn't enough to worry about" idea. I'd be more prone to argue that 0.1mm *is* meaningful over the course of a season.

[@renancristyan0099]

This is one of the best F1 videos I've ever seen, incredible work man 👏

[@brrrake]

Thank you!

[@metalpigy]

WHAT A VIDEO!! This is incredible, arguably the best tech/explanation video of a complex F! subject that I've ever seen. Bravo, sir, Bravo...!!!

[@brrrake]

Thank you, dude. This is the encouragement I need to keep digging into the detailed stuff !!

[@AGNISHKUMARR-o7q]

there are parallel anti - dive geometry with negative dive percentage causing front ride height to lower, which can be resolved by mounting the suspension at some degrees to diver pointing direction

[@morgangilliard5119]

This is quite possibly be my favorite video on KZbin!

[@alecmillea4539]

Great video man! You’ve earned yourself a new subscriber!

[@SpeculativeConjecture]

Blake I’m always shocked you don’t get more interest from F1TV or sky would love you to get on tech talk or something you’re great!

[@brrrake]

You should tell them. I'm working on it, but F1TV have a great tech crew, scarbs, Sam, Leena. I'm sure I could add something there. Bernie has been a game changer for sky.

[@petermaardananders6803]

When I was 16 I got a Vespa Piaggio Ciao (from 1965 me and the moped lol) moped it had front suspention that while braking made the front go upwards, that did not feel right because the front then went stiff as well. That style of suspention felt and was dangerous, I already thought it would be similar to my old moped suspention and of course it is just improved to just stop nose dive instead of nose up like my old moped did under braking. Gonna link a picture in the reply below.

[@dirtysideofthetrack]

Great info coupled with great production quality and acting skills! Chef's kiss

[@brrrake]

Cheers lads!

[@salim_abid_]

Thank you for this amazing content, Really well put together, Detailed and easy to understand. 👍🏻👍🏻

[@jxj2684]

Angling the upper wishbone mounting down tends to LOWER the intersection point of the line drawn through both wishbones. The further the centre of gravity of the car above that point, the more dive. Therefore, surely the change is moving towards increased dive ? Of course, we don't actually know where the C of G of a a F1 car is.

[@turbo_brian]

Anti dive increases the chance you lock up the inside tire while trail braking. For non aero cars you usually change your driving technique for a change in anti dive. If you're racing with someone with a lot more anti dive than you, it can be adventageous to push them on late braking lap after lap to try and initiate this locking as one it happens it is more likely to each successive lap and will push their braking point further back.

[@brrrake]

Can you explain? I think you're confusing this with an increased front roll stiffness.

[@AndyFromBeaverton]

11:17 When I talk to Adrian on the phone, he sounds more like Charlie Brown's teacher.

[@brrrake]

HAHAH yeah!

[@dantton1987]

Mindblowing how complicated this subject is. How do you account aerodynamic balance and car attitude while trimming the setup for a driver's liking? How does slow and fast bump/rebound come into play? What about bump stops? There's just an overwhelming ammount of variables. I guess that's where the truly great talents like Verstappen and Alonso shine (even Hamilton falls flat in that regard, IMO). Just give them whatever and they will figure it out. There's a reason why Senna himself said Jim Clark was the greatest of all. The man avoided messing with setup and prefered to just adapt. I can't compliment you enough. AMAZING video.

[@wiegraf9009]

The teams have historical data to work with and get to spend tons of sim time prepping before and after FP sessions. They also get to know how the car generally behaves.

[@brrrake]

How much time ya got? I'm actually working on a "how to set up a f1 car video". Stick with me. It's actually not insane once you isolate which variables you want to work with

[@WSW0424]

Incredibly detailed. After watching this I can see how easy it is for a top team like Mercedes to run into that porpoising problem they had last year. Do you think it was more of an aerodynamic problem or a suspension design problem? Or both lol

[@brrrake]

From my understanding it was both. Don't expect proposing to happen, or not as severely. Design the car to operate there with a small window (stiffness and ride height). Proposing is there. Stuck in setup options. Expensive to develop out of

[@robertisler8557]

I like your analysis and explanation. Very interesting!

[@brrrake]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video

[@patricioharolopez6560]

Amazing video and explanation

[@johndansby3620]

Finally someone is talking about RB19 45 degree front anti-dive and radical rear pro-squat rear upper arm that Adrian Newey mandated with revised new gearbox case for 2023…Watch Max braking late at end of straight at Miami GP while blowing by everyone on his way to the front from 9th and rear titanium sparking and not the front…whole lotta Newey magic in this car!

[@sanketn651]

Good technical explaination👍

[@deamer44]

Really interesting analysis!!

[@turbo_brian]

I feel like operating window is a more generic term to describe a multitude of things. A given car may have a narrow operating window for something like toe as that feeds into how much energy goes into the tire and the brakes may put more or less heat into the tire so another car could like different toe values even with the same tires. Other things impact this operating window but in general when I hear operating window I think of everything from aero to suspension to even something like the renault engine having more low torque and operating better at certain speed corners.

[@brrrake]

Operating window is used to describe generic things like ride height or aerodynamic states where the car performs. Or a tyre may have a temperature operating window. I have never heard it used to describe toe settings or smaller details?

[@ASkippingRock]

I have been waiting for this. I listen to your podcast and love the videos.

[@patfix]

This was super interesting, thanks for explaining!

[@whereswaldo1191]

I would have thought high anti dive numbers would loose out to the loss of increased downforce from the increase in angle of attack of the front wing. Then I would assume you would set the rear anti lift to control your skid plate heights. The high anti dive would also increase stiction and then require increases in unsprung weight/strength of components to transfer additional loads to fixed geometry. It sounds like a statement but it's more of a question 🙂

[@jcbf73]

Make a Video about how much lighter, shorter and smaller an f1 could be, but keeping the same level of safety and the same ICE

[@brrrake]

This is a great topic!

[@dsdy1205]

Drunk showerthought: Mandate an auto-deploy parachute if the car enters the runoff

[@BKAM2316]

You know he is a twitter guy when he says "advantage locked in for yeas" 🤣🤣🤣 Awesome explanation as always btw.

[@brrrake]

IF YOU KNOW YOU KNOW! haha thanks :D

[@KilroyNoBrain]

Is a crime that these videos do not get more views

[@rameenana]

Awesome video mate. Well explained for lemans like myself. Thanks

[@chriscray5922]

Excellent video, kudos

[@wariorsu]

Thank you for giving so many hard work just to let us see for free Hugeeee love from Malaysia

[@gealingeman8643]

Thank you for this explanation. Its so great to get a bit more understanding of how F1 cars work even with me being so un-technical 😉👍I also read Neweys book and he explains a lot of designs in it too 👍

[@pgale]

Love your work dude always informative.

[@RoryTalksF1]

Great video, learned something new again.

[@brrrake]

Thank you, Rory!

[@patfix]

11:38 we would all hug the entire paddock for some performance, right Günther?

[@brrrake]

😉😉 the meme connected with the real ones 🤝

[@alpha007org]

In my sim racing world (iRacing, ACC), you want some front compression, and rear lift under braking, so that you can rotate the car. I would think front anti dive takes away some feeling what the front end of the car is doing. (That would explain Perez Monaco crash, and a lot understeer moments in Free Practice sessions, where they are working on a setup and tyre sims.) Also, you want your car to squat under acceleration so that the tires have maximum grip. Next, anti dive has to be seen as a small component of the aero platform of the car. True, you have a more stable aero platform with anti dive, but my thinking is that you're hurting in slow speed corners. Extreme Anti Dive makes sense only if you consider the whole aero platform/package. Just copying anti dive on any other F1 car, I would think, would NOT be beneficial, and would only hurt them.

[@wiegraf9009]

Checo prefers an understeery car, and the RB19 supposedly is that, so it's consistent with strong anti dive.

[@mohamadzali-gn7vh]

sir, to me, ur so highly experienced n lot of knowledge I suspension operating motion ❤

[@ktwei]

How does anti-dive take away brake feel?

[@brrrake]

It entirely depends. In some cars, it doesn't make much difference. In others, it can have a big impact. But in F1 the brake feel related to anti-dive is a 2nd or 3rd order effect - not really a factor.

[@davidaugustofc2574]

In F1, I believe, the brake by wire changes everything, because the drivers remember very well how much force to apply to the pedals instead of how far to push the feet.

[@void_snw]

@@davidaugustofc2574 only the rear end is brake by wire, and that's also done through a hydraulic system with a pressure sensor.

[@davidaugustofc2574]

@@void_snw true, actually

[@Ginbaubabe]

@@davidaugustofc2574also the brake pedal on F1 cars have very limited travel, solid almost, as the human brain can detect and measure pressure much better over movement

[@AmirPomen]

anti-dive/ anti-lift front suspension geometry were almost left out on so many road car user for performance/handling... those who knew, capitalize this and enjoy the benefit to fullest

[@barneyklingenberg4078]

The high center of gravity is annoying but in F1 not the main thing, Especially with the current ground effect cars. You want to be as low as possible at all times since that would increase the downforce of the floor.

[@brrrake]

This is not strictly true.

[@MrBrandlor]

The new graphics look great btw.

[@brrrake]

Thanks!

[@pbeshears]

This is the first video of yours that I have seen. I liked it a lot. I really loved the photos of the suspension arms at very different angles for different tracks. I wondered why you didn't address the heave spring that is in Formula 1 suspension. The heave spring is a new one for me but isn't the reason for its existence to resist the dive of the front end? Also, couldn't it give anti-dive performance without impacting the rest of the suspension geometry? I'd be interested to learn more about the use of them. Thanks.

[@procatprocat9647]

Drag racers use >100% anti squat to dramatically increase rear grip off the line using weight transfer

[@lewisnobody]

Not the guenther Steiner reference 😂 11:38

[@muddypeej]

When this channel is huge in a year Blake should do a collab video with the dude that does the technical breakdown videos on the paddock, Blake provides the data that backs up the demo, no brainer

[@procatprocat9647]

Are you referring to the practical demonstrations? They're currently targeted at children and dts kiddies, but I guess they could easily be refocused to align better with Blake's level

[@muddypeej]

@@procatprocat9647 I was talking about this guy: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHnZpqaOnNKWbqs

[@brrrake]

There's nothing wrong with fans that came along with DTS. You once knew nothing about the sport just like me. Encourage them and welcome them in, don't gatekeep or pretend they are worse fans.

[@procatprocat9647]

@brrrake dts has cheapened f1 and is turning it into an instafake zero concentration character show that's nothing but spin and superficial headline grabbing stories. It has damaged the experience for other generations. Now that the dts fad is wearing off and many of those 'fans' are dispersing, a void is being left.

[@brrrake]

@@procatprocat9647 don't blame drive to survive for that. Blame the greedy schmucks. Welcome the new fans and help them enjoy it. Without the popularity of F1 right now and all of the new people consuming F1 content, and some of them becoming interested in engineering, I'd not be doing this.

[@phillipwathitu3505]

How many factors do engineers have to consider during a race weekend? 7 minutes into the video and my brain is begging me to go slow!! And we are only discussing what could possibly be just the tip of the iceberg. Great video this!!

[@brrrake]

All of these concepts, if they are new to you, sound overwhelming. Setting up a car for "the window" is fairly straight forward and I can get a rough setup for a new circuit in about 25-30 minutes prepared for the simulator. Past experience and knowledge is also very useful. it's not like "Computer please optimise"! This is certainly the tip of the iceberg, and I'm not sure how much further I can go before alienating the entire enthusiast F1 audience 🤣 I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@Son0fFalse]

You are not the only one. He was talking about a high variation in ranges of setup that affects other components. My mind works on understanding square one of all setups before going through hypothetical setups and variations

[@phillipwathitu3505]

@@brrrake Go further!!!!😅😅 I guess we are all here for it

[@brrrake]

@@phillipwathitu3505 haha ok! I am really thinking about detailed more conversational content to talk with the community via KZbin memberships or something down the road. But right now I am just focusing on a good balance of detail that appeals to a relatively wide audience

[@phillipwathitu3505]

@@brrrake I understand. But once in a while maybe you should throw in a video like today's video where you explain some relatively complex details about a formula 1 car. I personally would like to know more about the chassis of a formula 1 car. How important is it? Why is it one of the top secret parts of a formula 1 car? How can it be a performance differentiator in this modern era of formula 1 cars? How does the chassis link up with other parts of the car, particularly the suspension to bring performance?

[@dancoxhead8757]

Just watched this as my first video from your channel. Insta sub! Clear, concise and informative, great video. Keep up the good work 👍🏻

[@brrrake]

Cheers! I'm really glad you enjoyed it

[@orangejuicepony6881]

Totto Wolf is your number one subscriber

[@samcastevens8044]

Gillespie on the desk! Nice!

[@crztank9298]

Hey have you any book you can recommend or examples of free body diagrams to help visualise the forces at play, specifically the reaction forces in the suspension components ?

[@brrrake]

Not exactly but that Thomas d Gillespie book on vehicle dynamics is excellent

[@crztank9298]

@brrrake thanks a mill I'll have a look. I have race car vehicle dynamics by milliken to get through, its detailed but broad, I'm looking for something focussed more, like on kinematics etc

[@jose21crisisTM]

Question, and sorry if it is a painfully obvious answer: Realistically, what stops the teams from just running the softest possible corner springs, stiffest heave (or 3rd) springs, using packers/bump stops/rising rate to stop the car bottoming and using only the anti-roll bars to control roll and balance the car?

[@brrrake]

Nothing! 😅 but running packers and bump stops isn't necessarily the best always. Also not always the worst.

[@painfullight]

Phenomenal video made something complicated make sense and fun to watch

[@ETicketM]

Rear anti squat would change drastically if the braking force was from the upright mounted caliper vs the inboard mounted MGU. I suspect they may choose from the two braking forces based on which is best for the next turn.

[@brrrake]

Excellent point, however the braking torque is usually split fairly consistently and energy recovery is paramount. I believe you're referring to anti lift or pro lift - the braking torque reactions

[@f.kieranfinney457]

Maybe they just tweak the ratio at each brake bias setting. There’s no way drivers could switch front-rear bias at every turn AND switch the rear ratio while braking, turning and fighting? They’re not allowed to have GPS based input for any system adaptations are they? The tech has existed in road cars for a decade so it’s doable. But I thought they could only gather data and not use it to adapt on the fly. They certainly can’t send data from the pit.

[@FreehhZe]

wow great video, very nice explanations and visualizations! Was wondering as well why everybody focused so much on the red bulls front suspension, when looking at topspeed and high speed performance it seems like the aero is what makes the biggest difference

[@yogishnn1945]

Excellent Video, Thanks

[@williamcharles7340]

Wow! Great video!

[@devili7y585]

Much love man

[@akioasakura3624]

fantastic video!! thank u sir

[@alfistibrasiliani]

with an anti-dive suspension the car can run lower (the proof is RB's wood plaque around the titanium always wears more than other teams, it's darker/with more scratches) and running lower means you can extract more downforce. That's the reason why TD39 crippled Ferrari last year...

[@brrrake]

Red bulls floor is darker because they paint it black to see where it's wearing better 😁

[@csolopp]

That was great, thanks, Blake) Yeah, looks like Adrian and the team put A LOT of cool stuff in this car)

[@brrrake]

Very much so. But more to the point it's doing lots of the small things and making them work together very efficiently!

[@csolopp]

@@brrrake and that's even more fun, actually)

[@dsdy1205]

Could it be that the gains are more evident from a user-friendliness point of view? If anti-dive gets you a smoother, more consistent downforce curve through a heavy-braking corner, then the driver is going to have a lot more confidence chucking it in there

[@brrrake]

This entirely depends on the shape of the aeromap and everything else. I don't think it's remotely first order.

[@Deft78440]

Incredible. Thanks 😊

[@justamanchimp]

They’ve done it because it gives the drivers so much more confidence, particularly when it comes to big slippy curbs. If you watch verstappen and Perez on board, they seem way more comfortable with taking curbs and essentially chopping up track distances with slightly wider lines. I think the other f1 cars can’t handle this because the risk of sudden loss of ground effect. I think this is why Rb have gone this direction with suspension, it’s so drivers, particularly guys like verstappen can do what they do best and throw these cars around corners without fear. That is the difference and Verstappen has actually hinted this a few times in interviews but no one is batting an eye lid, im so confused why no one is picking this up

[@brrrake]

This doesn't really have anything to do with kerbing performance... unless they are substantially on the brakes in kerbs. I'm not exactly sure what you're watching but it's not like Red Bull are exceptional in low speed corners, better on braking, or better on the kerbs. If you could point me to some very specific instances, I'd love to look at it. But that, if it is a thing, seems entirely unrelated to the topic of the video.

[@justamanchimp]

@@brrrake A good example is Monaco pole lap vs say the Ferraris, okay not 100% about curbs but very bumpy and risky, the RB is light years more stable in comparison to literally every other car, it’s only subtle but if you can imagine yourself in the car you will almost feel it and can understand why max is having a good time with that car. I think it’s related, in conjunction with the floor and other components, but I think their overall direction stems from this idea that they need to be able maximise the track with confidence, the old cars they could obliterate the curbs and bumps, these cars they have to be much more careful and I believe this would have been a major consideration in the type of braking and suspension setup they went for, there’s no point having a fast car if the drivers feel uneasy with it, as Ferrari have kinda demonstrated recently. This is the ultimate direction the Rb is going in, Ferrari for example focused on making the car “fast” and compromised all driver comfort pretty much, and that goes to show right? The Ferrari has proven to be as quick over one lap but it just can’t do it consistently and whilst keeping tyres in a good window. The Rb is smoooooth, and that’s what I believe was priority in rbs decision making around this suspension and what not. It allows max to venture much deeper into finding time than the other drivers because he’s not really worrying about keeping the car on the track. That’s my theory any way! Eventually the RB will be absolutely smashing the curbs, surely this is the ultimate direction to go into? The advantage of being able to extend the track is massive, so many tracks require strong curbing performance and overall stability over bumps so, it only makes sense to me, it seems like Rb are first on this journey

[@justamanchimp]

@@brrrake Hi again, what I said about the suspension and curb stuff, being able to take shorter lines etc, I recently just got f1 2023 and it’s true in that game, and then I just listened to The Race podcast titled “Why is verstappen red bull package so good - and who’s best place to stop them”, listen to the first 10 minutes, they talk about the exact same thing, I think I’m right on this

[@aleksanderresman3156]

Thank you for one of the most informative videos.

[@leontronics]

Enough said, subscribed!

[@heart4011]

Real quick question, and this is something I've thought about when it comes to anti-dive, is wouldn't the front wing actually lift upwards after the initial braking since downforce is being lost on the front wing which would prevent it from slamming heavily into the ground? What is also the point of the heave spring if anti-dive is incorporated into the design of the car? Could it be possible to negate a lot of the anti-dive's potential by simply utilizing a stiffer heave spring?

[@brrrake]

When you brake there is load transfer which further compresses the front and the rear comes up, which causes the front wing (ahead of the front axle) to dip further. Stiffness and ride/grip limit how stiff the car can be.

[@jwmurphyccsis]

Great explanation

[@apocalypse3039]

"I'd f*** the entire paddock for 10 points of downforce" that reference 🔥

[@brandonjoice1835]

The teams can do any sort of aero work they want and dial in the floor as much as possible ect. But theyll always be a leg behind. I was wondering how big of a deal it is that theyre the only team to run pull/push rods when it seems that that sort of set up is giving them everything they need. Everyone hails Adrian as an aero god, but i feel like car setup is still his ace in the hole.

[@brrrake]

Adrian doesn't really do any car setup work.

[@brandonjoice1835]

@@brrrake i figured he still kept at it a little after indy, neat

[@eliotmansfield]

they have probably figured out a way of it having both characteristics at the same time but at different speeds/loads. Also see flexi wings etc

[@roflchopter11]

Excellent channel and content! 13:00 unfortunately this isn't quite right. Anti-Squad or anti-dive, or even roll centers don't actually change the amount of steady state load transfer front to rear or left right (except for the minuscule change due to moving the CG as the car pitches and rolls. What does change is the timing of load transfer. "Anti"-geometry and roll centers above the surface of the groud cause some low transfer to happen immediately, instead of having to wait for suspension velocity (dampers) or suspension displacement (springs, ARB).

[@brrrake]

Thank you! The video is correct... And you are also correct. The anti geometries do not change steady state load transfer. BUT they do change the displacement of the body relative to the wheels. For example. A higher roll center (while still below the cog) will reduce the steady state roll angle. The loads steady state will remain the same. However a larger portion of the transfer will be through the suspension and chassis - which will be unsprung and undamped. So yes it will change the timing of the elastic Vs inelastic portions of load transfer in transient. The steady state loads won't change. But the roll angle will be reduced.

[@Ginbaubabe]

Suspension geometry in F1 cars has been biased towards controlling the aero platform over ride characteristics and mechanical grip. The general understanding is that too much anti-dive in the front suspension would impact the driver’s feel for braking modulation, so what are the pros n cons of having anti-dive at the front to control the rear ride height under braking vs having anti-lift at the rear?

[@wiegraf9009]

My understanding is that having a highly shifting center of downforce in the ground effect era makes braking and cornering so unpredictable having more downforce center stability is worth the loss of feel.

[@geppo1985]

Super super interesting🤓!!! More videos like this🙏

[@christianshow6205]

This game looks sooooo good please play it PLEASE 😭🙏