Is Gore-Tex Worth It? Waterproof Comparison Test

[@FortNine]

We're back! Thanks for the patience ladies and gents - you can expect regular uploads for the foreseeable future. ~WellRestedRyanF9

[@shafiqh6061]

Love it. We were getting withdrawals Team!

[@shabadabadoo4326]

i literally commented on another video just a day or two ago that we missed you. Welcome back.

[@YA-ee9zf]

we missed you x

[@kazager11]

I was suffering withdrawal, so much so I found and watched your valedictorian speech.

[@darwinpayette1563]

Glad to see your back, I was just thinking you'd become a west coast bum😜

[@brandonbrown6544]

As a mountaineer who also sold sporting goods for 6 years, I can attest that GoreTex is king. Trust me when I say I really wanted some other promising brands to work because of the overpriced GoreTex. Not to mention as a company they a bullies. But nobody has come close to the balance of waterproof and breath ability. Sure Gordon fisherman yellows are far more waterproof and soft shell NorthFace is way more breathable but living in the NW if I get caught in ugly weather GoreTex products win. Also as a note when the outer fabric of any jacket become soaked breath ability Is crap in everything, it’s why I always recommend put zips no matter the jacket.

[@conradbielicki774]

great point about breathability when wet - which is why i always take a rubber or other impermiable shell with vents as opposed to breathable fabric. Even on the bike I stay dry with vents as long as they're facing down

[@gunplaytv]

Check out Futurelight from TNF. I think you'll find that's the only thing that's coming close

[@ceecrb1]

As someone who sold a LOT of equipment to mountaineers. Trust me, gore is not king, its numer 2 but with better marketing and market saturation. E-vent is the stuff we staff in technical outdoor sports shops all order for ourselevs from manufacturers rather than use the gore products off the shelf. Goretex is just a stretched synthetic fabric with holes in it that through convection, moisture will leave and liquids are blocked. E-vent is the same execpt more advanced, the holes are conical so actively wick liquids through them (small part of cone to skin). Surface tension makes the moisture spread out and actively push itself out of the garment. Trust me.. try an e-vent product (if you can find one), you'll never go back.

[@erueru2014]

@@gunplaytv I am an authorized retailer of TNF and I can tell you that Futurelight is all marketing bullshit, I was so hyped when they came out with it, they claimed it to be just as waterproof as Goretex but up to 3 times more breathable, and it feels a lot softer than those cringly Goretex jackets. When I go biking in my Impendor Futurelight jacket I get just as sweaty as I do in a Goretex jacket with the underarm zippers closed, and the Furturelight jackets dont have underarm zippers. As for waterproffnes, TNF refuses to give any stats on it, but from personal experience the Impendor jacket and the L5 pants gets soaked in about half an hour of light rain. TNF have changed the description on most of their Furturelight products from 100% water proof to "light resistance against moisture" which to me sounds like clever legal bullcrap. When I go into the mountains (northern Scandinavia) I bring my Goretex jacket and pants or something with E-vent, as those WILL keep you dry. EDIT: the new Furturefleece from TNF is really awesome though, the L2 Futurefleece is my new favorite by a large margin.

[@scratchy996]

I did not sell Gore-tex, but I had three pairs of Gore-tex shoes and they were garbage. It was embarrassing when on hikes people in cheap Decathlon shoes had dry feet, and I had wet feet with shoes three times the price. So I guess it's my fault I fell for their marketing.

[@garri.almighty]

It’s 2 AM here in the Philippines. I don’t own a bike. But I still keep coming back to this channel for the awesome quality content. Welcome back!

[@janlan1313]

Same XD

[@Asiandynamo]

Pek pek

[@Raykazen]

@ why couldn't he say that ? It 100% fits the context, grow up man.

[@garri.almighty]

@ a pleasant day to you my child. A couple of thoughts: 1. I did not say I was Filipino. I only said I currently live in the Philippines. 2. Ryan is from Canada and majority of his reviews, tips and products he reviews is sold in Canada and/or in the US. This means his target demographic is Canadian and/or American motorcycle riders not Asians most especially not Filipinos. 3. Now that I have established his target demographic (see point 2), I would like to point how much I very much appreciate his content even though I am not part of his target audience. Even if I cannot completely relate to his content because I myself do not own a bike (at least not yet) I still come back for the quality of the videos he publishes. As what my good friend ​ Clément Péau said my post 100% fits the context. And to answer your question, (as of time of this writing) 192 people care. :)

[@alexandreaubry5808]

@@garri.almighty Hey Garri, I am also in PH, not Filipino and not owning a bike yet, also fully aware that I am not a part of the target. However, as I am learning how to ride and about to purchase, I must say that I am enjoying watching this guy's videos as much as I am learning from it. I can say I support you !

[@harrison1056]

"Fortnine Advanced Research Center for Equipment (FARCE)" well played, sir.

[@woutvleugels1424]

I thought is said "fortnite", i guessed i was just too old to get the joke

[@principal7819]

Reminds me of Top Gear - and that's a bloody amazing compliment.

[@mac243877]

lol

[@markjohnmichaud8369]

The issue that I’ve always had with the concept of Gore-Tex-esque fabric design is that if one is riding (or walking, for that matter) in the rain, the outside atmosphere (that is, humidity outside of the jacket) is near or equal to 100%. That stated, there is no outside “draw” for the humidity inside the jacket. In short, there can be no flow of moisture through the fabric unless the outside humidity is less than that inside the jacket. It follows that the greater the difference in humidity (i.e. outside vs. inside) the better the outflow. It follows that Gore-Tex (and all) will exhaust sweat on a dry day just fine; on a moist day - ain’t gonna happen.

[@timjohnson1199]

I know. But, as I always say "cold or wet, not both". I guess on a rainy day I'm happy to be not soaked but warm.

[@Jone952]

snow

[@beliefisnotachoice]

I've been waiting 15 years for a video like this, except more for hiking gear. This was great, thanks for making it.

[@juhojalonen3046]

@@lmlm2500 Wow! *winks and walks out*

[@willmorrell488]

I literally had to look twice at the notification to believe it was really Fortnine!

[@ProjectRedfoot]

4real lol

[@julian-estrada]

I could not believe it myself!

[@LTVoyager]

I hope it was a good vacation and not due to something bad.

[@kingbradley8058]

I thought it was a Fortnite video being recommended for me for some reason

[@sdsethia]

Finally! Welcome to 2019 F9 !

[@nuttenglotzer007]

He's still alive!

[@IrishSpyHD60]

"Because the millimeter is a unit of length, I checked." Had me dying at the airport 😂

[@dr.doppeldecker3832]

To comprehend that the millimeter is a unit of length, actually is an impressive achievement for an u.s. citizen:)

[@alexfinn7989]

Yes haha

[@veiledallegory]

Dr. Ziegler he’s Canadian!

[@smac4749]

Yep, that’s the kind of scientific, educational insight we want! 😂 As always though, a funny and informative video.👍

[@gregp103]

You should have bought flight insurance.

[@charlieross-BRM]

Two anecdotal personal experiences with this kind of garment. 1) Way back in 1995 I purchased a lightweight shell for general outdoor use, like walking the dogs. It is (I still have it) a Columbia brand product and cost approx $200 back then. They use some Columbia version of water/vapor fabric that at the time was considered close to GoreTex. On a muggy and damp day, wearing layers including a knit sweater, a long tromp on the trail would develop enough perspiration that I'd want the wide back vent across the shoulders to be open, also the slash vents on the front. Here is the big surprise. within two years of buying it, one of my dogs broke through the ice and it was on a river. The dog (Golden retriever) was paddling in all directions trying to get out, dunking under a few times. Cutting it short, I could either walk away or stay and watch; either way he was going to disappear a final time under the ice. I knew I had to hustle or I'd be in the Monday news as the idiot that drowned trying to save a stupid dog. I did not want to be that guy. That's humiliating. The rescue was a safe success, never letting go of the timbers. I fully expected I now had to deal with the effects of hypothermia and act accordingly. To my total surprise, all of my clothing under the shell was completely dry. For sure I thought I'd be soaked to the bone. So from the neck down to mid thigh was dry and warm. i.e. my core was dry. I guess being submerged, water pressured the garment against me and it "sealed" itself. Waterproof enough for me. Over the years the waterproofing has degraded and I apply third party treatments. 2) I bought an Olympia motorcycle rain jacket for $120 for a trip from Ontario to Cape Breton. The worst day was 11 hours on the highway from border to border of New Brunswick. Doing 100 to 120 km/h most of the way in really REALLY heavy rain, I was completely dry under that thing. I poured a few ounces of water out of each boot at the end but from cuffs to collar, cozy cruising. It really helped keep my body temperature in a good place.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Fabulous work guys - appreciate the effort you put into this - what I call a real real-world test......glad to see you back too!

[@FortNine]

Thanks buddy! Good to be back. ~RF9

[@nathanboeger9329]

You two should collaborate on one some time.

[@svensupermen]

I work as a product researcher / designer but not yet in motorcycle garment. But this would be a perfect review to have, great quality and the diy test makes it real! Keep up the good work from the Netherlands!

[@nagualdesign]

Haha! It was a helpful video but definitely not what you could sensibly call a "real world test" - unless you plan on making high-pressure water balloons rather that wearing your jacket in the rain. 😜

[@thedanyesful]

@@nagualdesign compared to relying on the manufacturer's spec it's definitely a real world test.

[@weekendwarriorT7]

See @revzilla ? This is how you make a comparison video.

[@karamlevi]

Oren B yep. Zilla just hucks gear while revealing nothing of usage ability or much quality control. After a bad helmet from zilla they tossed me the manu # n told me Nicely to kick bricks. Why sell a helmet with lots of leaks n complaints if your vetting product? Customer loyalty lost . I may buy again from them but not last Sunday $400+ to another company:-D

[@nicholasmapes]

I love how scientific this was! Keep up the good work!

[@mikeapmechanic4423]

Just saw the video about liners. Gor-tex is the best. I have very expensive Gor-tex lined Bates tactical boots. I tested them through Denver winters, lots of snow and deep puddles and my feet were always warm and dry. Gor-tex products are always going to be more expensive because it does what they advertise. Very good quality video.

[@tomellis4750]

At 73 years old I learn from this channel like I'd never been to school. My outer layer is what is called a Motorway Jack in UK, as worn by road workers, police, builders and others needing Hi-Viz. Cost £35, although there are cheaper ones. Bargain. Fluorescent yellow on top of fluorescent black leather. Waterproof, even the pockets. Of course it's convergent evolution with my jacket, white helmet and Enfield Himalayan with white tank that just happens to look like a police biker, but i don't object when car drivers mistake me for such and get out of my way.

[@2ShoesPhoto]

Riding year round in the cold wet PNW, I have Gore-Tex gear and yes, it works and is completely worth it!

[@AbigailPoirier]

Riding year round in the hot humid southeast, I have Frogg Toggs and yes, they mostly work and that's all I need. In the summer, which lasts approximately 9 months, getting rained on is often a relief, so me and my friends don't even bother with rain gear. In the winter, the rain isn't heavy enough to get through the Toggs. I like how small they pack up, too. The biggest plus is how COOL I look while wearing them. Not. Would definitely invest in better gear if I lived farther north, though! One of the coldest rides I've ever been on was in Ontario in May. It was in the 40's (Fahrenheit) and pouring for hours. Frogg Toggs were not equal to the challenge. My feet actually went numb from being so cold. That's the first and only time that's ever happened to me.

[@hafizlemot]

Well, actually riding in Indonesia with hot climate and rainy season with frequent moonsoon, i have a gore tex lined glove and it works beautifully under a really hard rain, but for jacket and pants nothing beats the good ol' PVC jacket 😂

[@anonymouse2573]

Im up in the NE, thinking gortext is a good idea after last year.. about half of my commutes were in the rain to some degree.. such a drag. Having to wash the bike most days is one thing, being wet is a whole nother

[@biggus6633]

Chris Ofsthun I wear these Gore-Tex hiking boots and they’ve been through hell. I wear them all year for work in the out doors. I do about 8 hours Monday-Friday and I average 5 miles a day. Some days I do 10-15 miles yet they are comfy as hell. I even wear them in all sorts of conditions. Hot and cold days, rainy and dry days. All sorts of terrains including dry chaparral trails, wet grass, and sandy, muddy and rocky trails and they have not failed me yet. I once had to fix some irrigation pipes in a flooded are and was there for about 30 minutes and my feet still felt dry. They costed me about $300 and I’ve had them since 2016 and they are heading towards the fourth year. I did not take care of the boot though. I didn’t clean them (except the sole when I stepped on dog shit) or take care of the leather and what not. The leather is all cracked now the sole is slightly coming off the boot. I’m going to see if I can get it repaired. But man I LOVE my Gore-Tex boots. I think I’m going to buy another one and really take care of those. I bet they would last a lifetime well taken cared of. I love Gore-Tex and I’m going to look into more products that use Gore-Tex because to me it’s worth it and it does it all!!!

[@human1513]

PNW? Some where on this planet I assume.

[@Max.527]

We need more F9 videos, all the time.

[@julian-estrada]

Moar!!!

[@rhman1660]

watch at the 1:30 mark as they "photoshop" a second 'm' into the chalkboard to show it is 1500mm vs the 1500m that he wrote. Love it. Awesome.chalkboard

[@onlytiesto1]

howwwwwww

[@Stratocasterhead51]

Just saw that :p

[@uytouytoo9944]

are you alien? how did u see it?=))

[@ayushgupta3991]

hahaha... excellent catch :D

[@karpenterken1]

WTH is a chockboard? LOL

[@dkalir]

Fantastic work Ryan! I always expected - and experienced! - my Gore Tex stuff to "guarantee to keep my dry" only from the outside; from the inside, it was more like a sauna... It's so nice to have this hunch verified by a lab test! Thanks for all the innovative thinking - and executing - of these thoughtful experiments. It's a joy learning from you! (And I say that as a teacher...).

[@SuperGinkgo]

As a self declared very sweaty bloke this test was fantastic! "Boil in the bag" sweaty waterproofs are the bane of my life! This test is invaluable to me as I prioritise breathability over outright waterproof-ness everytime. I am pleased that Scott came out top as well as I have a traditional very nice hide jacket that I have owned since 1988 and it's still worn regularly.

[@awaisarshed]

Thank God you are back! I was just stalking Y'all

[@noelkavanagh3507]

Great to see you back feels like a lifetime ago since last video.

[@danielkutcher5704]

I've been using Gore-Tex garments since the mid-1980s, and can vouch that it is waterproof, but barely breathable, leaving you drenched in your own sweat when the outside or inside (like when you exercise) temperature goes up. The constant testing of and testimony by many users over the years bears this out. The membranes all have to be bonded (glued) to an outer fabric, permanently plugging some of those pores, and the outer fabric needs to be treated with a coating which causes water to bead up, further diminishing breathability. If the outside fabric is not treated, or if the treatment gets badly soiled, the water will form into a solid "sheet" cross the face of the fabric. Your body slowly leaks vapor, it doesn't "push" it out. If it did, you would be able to inflate a garbage bag if you were to wear one sealed up around you with only your head sticking out. 😁 The moisture inside cannot diffuse through a solid sheet of water. On to the inside: Human sweat contains water, salt, and oils, among other things. The salts and oils can contaminate Gore's membrane and actually ATTRACT water from the outside through the membrane. To avoid this, Gore either uses an internal fabric to shield the membrane, or coats it with a sweat-proof (also waterproof!!) treatment. I have heard that this has been polyurethane in the past, which gives the inside of the fabric a sheen. I owned one such jacket for exactly three days and returned it to REI because it felt like a plastic bag against my skin on a weekend hike. Most Gore-Tex garments these days have a "scrim" bonded to the inside of the garment, which gives a more pleasant sensation where it touches the skin. All of these coating and bondings further reduce the breathability of the garment, which is noted in the test results here. One side note: Gore-Tex garments must be regularly cleaned according to their specific instructions, with specific cleansing agents, to remain waterproof and breathable. The outer treatment, called a "durable, water-repellant", or, "DWR" must be revitalized from time to time. In short, to maintain that very slight (I would say imperceptible) breathability, maintenance, requiring time and personal expense, are necessary. When cared for properly, one might get several or many seasons of weather protection from Gore-Tex garments, depending upon use, abuse, and care, or lack thereof. People may praise the breathability of waterproof garments. I will lay money upon the probability that: A) They must defend their choice to spend boatloads of money on the hopes of remaining sweat-free in the pouring rain, or: B) All of their ventilation options are in use and it's neither raining hard nor warm out.

[@jaygopinath1694]

Sympatex>gortex and gortex is extremely bad for the environment sympatex destroys gortex in every way 🇩🇪 for yer

[@gmy33]

I always wondered if real waterproof plastic like material . With heapd of smart vent and like rooftile system overlap would work ... .. shure a loose poncho is a bit like that .. not good in winds .. i just dont like when the water does not fall of the jacket but only if its treated with stuf that pollutes the enviroment anyways ...

[@zurielsss]

This video is so useful for anyone who go outside, not just motorcyclists. It also tickles the physicist in me (my physics education ceased after HKALE, but this video reminds me of the classes in college) , I love how scientific it is and the data for us to make comparisons and decisions

[@DonnDIY]

Very informative. Thanks. Will keep that info in mind when shopping for motorcycle gear.

[@wifelikecow]

Great channel my guy. Keep on it with the good DIY content.

[@Twallrion]

Just curious. What kind of methhead uses a inch wide cilinder and measures the height in mm

[@DragosDreamer1989]

Finally, some numbers and proper comparison between brands. Thanks, F9!

[@jeremielegros342]

Amazing video, as always! Small advice as a data analyst about the chart at the end, it's very good but it would be much easier and instinctive to understand and to explain using a bubble chart with for instance the breathability on the x axis, the waterproofness on the y axis and the price as the size of the bubble. This way, you can say that everything in the bottom left quarter is proper shit, top right quarter is amazing, bottom right is good if you want breathability over waterproofness and top left if you prefer waterproofness over breathability. Price bubble area will tell you the value for money and how much GoreTex is a rip off in one glance. Or easier, replace the bubble size for price with different colours for different price ranges (green to red maybe), much easier to draw. But anyway, that's just a small improvement idea, amazing videos... All of them are incredible.

[@RoryMag]

Dainese's D-Dry membrane should totally have been called Drynase.

[@FortNine]

Amen. ~RF9

[@Jin-Ro]

How the hell did the Dainese marketing bods miss that one.

[@timmasonguitar]

@@Jin-Roaybe because it sounds like something to do with the nose :)

[@MotoGPfan3987]

Rory Mag Drainese

[@0fg4]

Drynarse

[@cv66john]

Great video. I've worn my Frogg Toggs twice. Once in a South Dakota driving rainstorm on my motorcycle and standing in a Casper, Wyoming freezing rain for 8+ hours. Stayed perfectly dry on both occasions. Real world tests.

[@gabrielfelixmunoz739]

no way he actually just covered everything I read about in piles of articles (not quite) and geeking out about for the past couple days!!!!!!! Stellar freaking video!

[@KurtMcScotsman]

I think it would be a more effective test if mechanical strength wasn't a factor, given the sizeable area under pressure with your test setup. The additional force would stretch the fabric more, and reduce the waterproofing capability. Also, I think you would get much less mechanical failure (rupturing) if you maintained the 1 square inch of testing area (e.g., smaller pipe like 3/4" with OD of ~1.05" which gives you just under one - OD because as the fabric inevitably stretches under pressure it will come away from the pipe and the pressure will be applied to the entire profile of the pipe). Since you have such a large pipe (2.5" PVC, 3" PVC? Area of that profile is 6.4-9.6 square inches, plus the 2" wide strip between the end of the pipe and the clamp. That would introduce an additional 18-22 square inches for a total of ~24.5-31.5 square inches of area under pressure. Considering the original test only applied pressure to one square inch of fabric, the total force is Pressure * Area = 15PSI * 1 square inch = 15lbs. Your test would similarly have (24.5-31.5)*15lbs = 367.5-472.5lbs of force on that fabric (unless I made some error somewhere, which is likely). With that additional force, it's not a very scientific test, and it's no wonder that the fabric ruptured.

[@giuseppebonatici7169]

yep. It's not the cleanest setup. I suspect that the real test has some sort of metal mesh to avoid stretching and to be able to calculate the real pressure per square in or meter. but this experiment is fine. I feel that is more realistic than a hyper controlled environment. And thus, more useful for the common folk.

[@HaJoSchatz]

Exactly the same thought here, I see this test as a fail. Unfortunately.

[@cobbler88]

To me it's even more simple. How much pressure does your average rainstorm assert? If it's only 10 psi, is there really any practical difference between a 15 psi material and a 30 psi material?

[@zakofrx]

@@cobbler88 he was trying to measure ass to pressure and knee to ground pressure.. I have worn Gortex skiing and sailing and their would be all sorts of pressure depending on what I was doing over the actual weather.

[@cobbler88]

@@zakofrx That would probably be apparent to more people if he hadn't seemed primarily focused on jackets. But the root of my statement stands. We probably need a real-world baseline against which to compare the cheaper or less-optimal performing options. Basically, maybe a few more T's needed to be crossed in this one.

[@FilmHerald]

Great consumer advice.

[@jayhome2715]

Buddy below made a great comment. Standing in the rain vs riding a motorcycle in the rain vs riding a bicycle vs hiking are all different things. Each coat would be specific to a certain task. Dainese looks pretty well rounded though....I like that option....I'll take note for future when considering Goretex or not.....

[@roscoeskipper7846]

Almost all of these videos rate higher than any other motorcycle ( or other ) consumer rating reports. This one in particular is of the highest order. . Thank you Fortnine!

[@lr6891]

Summary: Results at 10:00 Dainese, Scott, and Gore-tex are the best options. The others are strictly outclassed by: Revit < Dainese, Gore-tex Olympia < Dainese, Gore-tex Alpinestars < Dainese, Scott Froggtoggs < Dainese, Gore-tex Fieldsheer < everything

[@ix-Xafra]

1st time watching your content. Loved the wit and excellent presentation! Thanks.

[@mogansara8081]

Doesn't matter that you're late, informative as ever.

[@nonjaninja4904]

As someone who motorcycles in the winter, I can tell you that Gore-Tex is the ONLY thing that works in serious conditions.

[@KALLAMITTI]

Been riding around an atv for a few days, my Patagonia goretex shell is just as good if not better then my insulated coveralls

[@diamondflaw]

I'm not daring enough to motorcycle in winter with the weather we get here (North Idaho).... but I do ski way faster than is advisable in sketchy wet weather, and I concur on Gore-Tex for staying dry even when repeatedly abraded against wet snow at high velocity.

[@JW-pz9xp]

@Nelson Kaiser Have you got the internet? You need never wonder about a simple matter of fact ever again. You're welcome.

[@Krabsism]

@@59jalex how can somebody actually freeze in Australia?

[@59jalex]

@@Krabsism I suppose it's possible up in the high country of NSW?

[@uncopino]

so dainese d-dry looks like the best compromise. as always, content quality and production value of these videos are unmatched

[@stevenstiles5112]

One of the best presenters have come across, this guy should have his own t.v series, great job

[@thedude2278]

Welcome back FortNine, you guys really do have the best motorcycle content on the internet. Keep up the amazing work!

[@KafkaesqueRider]

Another awesome video F9!

[@tullochgorum6323]

The problem is, the tests were developed by marketing departments and aren't very relevant to real-life usage. What we really want to know is how much the garment breathes when the surface repellent has worn, the outer layer has wetted out, and the atmosphere is warm and humid. In those conditions, you ain't going to get much breathability. My experience is with hiking, not biking, and for active use no breathable garment is going to keep up with your sweat. Many of the smarter and more experienced users are emphasising mechanical venting more than breathable fabrics. For biking, you have the issue of water driving into your garment at high speed, but are producing less sweat, so the priorities may be different.

[@davidheywood4082]

I was testing my gore-tex jacket over the last week in the Swedish mountains, and I still ended up getting wet inside because the jacket couldn't keep up with my sweat. No matter the conditions i'm always sweaty AF with a jacket or without. Over the week it was raining on and off and while the jacket kept out the rain for a while, the outer layer ended up getting overly soaked, and my body heat was still cranking. On this day however it was raining pretty hard for 30 min constantly. Most of the water was around the seams even though they have that extra seal on them. I don't think I will ever find the perfect jacket.

[@slicedpage]

Tullochgorum You are right of course. Study conditions and practical conditions can be miles apart although I did learn a lot from this video. In your opinion though what jacket would you recommend for real life ?

[@tullochgorum6323]

@@slicedpage Not a biker, so can't comment on that. For hiking, my solution is a good layering system, and a well vented silnylon poncho jacket I made for myself. It's worn over the pack, so there's good air circulation. But it's quite tailored so it doesn't flap. The only similar thing on the market is the Packa Jacket, which some people like a lot.

[@slicedpage]

@@tullochgorum6323 thank you

[@silverstar2k11]

Don't forget that its very important what kind of fabric you wear under your jacket. If you're not wearing anything that guides the vapor from your skin to your jacket (i.e. cotton) the whole point of breathable membrans in your jacket is gone.

[@rogerdavis2056]

Oh thank you finally some one does a video on goretex , some people think it's the outside that's waterproof with vortex it's not, its applied waterproof, Teflon wax and other chemicals. Thank you for a explanation of the product.

[@lexablue5945]

Just accidentally stumbled up this video, and I usually never comment but I gotta say the editing and general way the video is put together is so satisfying! I like how you use clear and concise terminology and make everything easy to understand. Well done man, well done!

[@willmorrell488]

You're back!!!!

[@kevindavies5978]

I think your the first comment

[@Peachwhaler26]

Well WELCOME BACK finally! Good to see ya

[@romanstravels6390]

YES IVE BEEN BINGE WATCHING YOUR OLD VIDEOS WAITING!!!!

[@alanc4264]

Great video. Outside temperature is a real factor in breathability. At 5 deg C (41F) I found so much condensation inside my jacket when hiking that I was soaked to a point that I could wring out my base layer. Dangerous in the mountains. All I was wearing was the "breathable" jacket and the base layer. I won't mention the brand, but it a well known German one, as I am in a dispute resolution phase with them.

[@eanredur9920]

I love how you set up a new method to test those materials, very creative. Also, the presentation was brilliant. But the method has a major flaw: You don't test the water column the fabric can resist, you test the water column the fabric can resist under extreme stress. That's not the same and does obviously lessen the material's ability to resist water, as the tearing at the material pulls the fibers away from each other and forcibly induces (micro)tears. For a "realistic" result, the material should be pressed against something, so that the pressure only forces water through the fabric but not the fabric apart. My idea would be the following: Take an outer cylinder made of metal, insulate it with a material that becomes conductive when wet and put a sort of metal mesh on the inside (like a sieve). Then take the setting you have in this video and put it inside there. When you wire up a small battery and a lamp with the construction you can see the water coming through the moment the lamp goes on.

[@johnashcraft2724]

Wow! You worked your butt off on that one buddy! Great helpful information. Thank you.

[@gustav4748]

I have been wearing a Scott jacket for ages now. I've never had a leak while riding, even in super bad weather. I can also confirm it being extremely breathable (if inner warmth-layer is removed). I can most definitely recommend it for any average rider. sorry i don't know the model or whatever :D

[@NickDangerThirdGuy]

The DWR coating is still responsible for shedding most of the water as well as keeping the pours unblocked so as to allow water vapor to escape from the inside on Goretex-like fabrics. in addition cold waterproof membranes have a tough time not letting the vapor condense on the membrane. I might suggest testing the ability of any particular garment to shed water (water beading up and running off and leaving the pours unblocked to allow transpiration). Also test the membranes laminated to a standard type of fabric. This will give a better comparison of the head to head performance of the membrane not the inherent differences in fabrics. Lastly, any testing should include warm vapor on one side and freezing temperatures on the other, to get a better indication of the permeability in situations likely to be experience in the real world. As far as getting the most from your Goretex-like garment, Use powder detergents and stay way from oil (to avoid contamination of the pours). When the DWR coating wears out, it can temporarily be revived by putting the garment in a very hot dryer. Failing that Scotch Guard or its industrial equivalents can used.

[@algebraindomain]

^ this guy peer reviews

[@BubbafromSapperton]

Pores, pores, pores, pores, pores...

[@RaC09]

What a brilliant way of making this so simple to understand! Kudos Ryan!

[@shallhonda85]

As an Aussie rider in ontario for my first year, I wish I had of seen this sooner. Got suckered into a FXR snow suit, told the retailer I was going to road ride in the months up to winter and into the early snow season, then transition onto the snow machine. I was told the fxr gear was water proof..... first good down poor left me wet, even my electric visor (ment to be air tight in order to heat up) aloud water in between the layers rendering it useless. FXR as a brand is ok. But I got sucked in. The seams that cover the zips face up, acting like a gutter catching all the water and snow it can. Add body heat and you have your self an internal water source, which isn't ideal. Its November and I'm still doing to 4am ride 40ks to work. Rain hail or shine. But FXR wasn't the greatest of help. This Aussie has now learnt a thing or two. Thanks for you video. Questing whats the best stud system to be used on motorcycles to get me a couple of extra weeks riding.

[@Swansea-Life]

I do enjoy watching marketing Bull being cut through. Thanks for a great video.

[@YoussefBahaji]

I click LIKE just cause there is a new upload, then I watch.

[@reynaldorivera7641]

Get military gore Tex used , you can always re- waterproof it, and you can get it cheap. I seen old bus camo/ desert camo 100$ for top and bottom sometimes well under 100$ check surplus Or Craigslist/ fb marketbplace around any military base.

[@chrisryan3445]

another option is police gear too, French police issue jackets are full laminate Goretex for about £50 - £75. I think Fortnine have covered similar in the past - going for ski gear gets you similar spec to motorcycle gear without the high price (because apparently motorcyclists are rich :D ). I was running military Goretex boots for a few years on my commute, held up well enough and comfy off the bike as well as on.

[@jonnywalker8471]

My dumbass turned in all my extra Gortex and cold weather gear when I got out. I wish I would of kept a few.

[@CallMeJackWagon]

Am I mistaken that Gortex (the fabric) is what is water proof and breathable - not a coating on the fabrix - you dont "re-waterproof" Gortex.... If you add a coating to waterproof its no longer effective as a breathable material

[@paule5812]

Scott Strickland what he means is after long use even the Gortex will start to lose it’s water resistance and using a silicone spray like 3M will put new life into the garment while still allowing it to breathe and have the water bead off

[@CallMeJackWagon]

Paul E I knew that's what he meant and my point remains. It's no longer breathable after adding a silicone to the fabric. That's my ignorant understanding anyway. You're clogging those pores with the coating when you do that.

[@galehess6676]

So, if you do extended length rides or trips and don't want to get wet sometimes, get Gore with lots of zipper vents, because anything else is a few compromises short of waterproof and makes sacrifices in the name of breathability. If temps are below about 70 degrees F (or for short rainy trips in warmer weather), I run a full BMW rain suit with hood and zipper gutter, over my Rev-It riding gear, to really seal things off. I use the Rev-It waterproof liner under a summer mesh Joe Rocket top, to block wind as the sun goes down, and for light showers or short trips. I have a Klim Hardanger full Gore suit but I need some topper to go over the neck hole and seal that nagging drip/penetration point, a hood or something. Thanks for the systematic review of the options.

[@victorkhong7654]

Honestly the best and most scientific of reviews delivered in an accessible way. Bravo!

[@reddog418]

Not sure why you didn't include a control for the breathability test. Why not leave a cup in there with no cover?

[@ayookusanya5437]

Good scientific point but not relevant for these quickie tests.

[@sorayaimperial]

It would absorb ambient water vapour, which composes 0,01% of our atmosphere, far faster than what is inside the bin with a cover, so it doesn't "control" anything, because our skin isn't usually absorbing ambient water like a dissecant does, nor is that what the jacket is being used for. Your control sample would make a lot of sense if we were talking about how much vapor gets INSIDE the jacket; this is pertinent, for example, in Nomex fabric for firefighters to use - it is far more resistant to flames than to vapour and you can get seriously injured by either water evaporating on the surface or vapour around you (trust me, it freaking burns). Resistance to vapour getting inside a Nomex Jacket could be controlled by dissecant exposed to said vapour; good Nomex jackets would need to absorb far far less than the uncovered sample. A more controlled option would be to cover it with some other fabric whose breathability is known (for being either very good or very bad), such as a cotton or linen tshirt, and put it with the other cups to compare.

[@rosemaryus-ct6151]

@@ayookusanya5437 thanks; appreciation for ur insight is included in my comment to soraya.

[@rosemaryus-ct6151]

@@sorayaimperial reminds me of the time i was sequestered in the ladies' room and one girl casually asked her friend, 'i wonder why toilet paper floats then sinks?' feeling somewhat like the wizard of oz behind the curtain, i explained specific gravity, how it relates to dry paper floating and wet paper sinking and the extrapolation of how displaced water volume allows heavy objects like boats to float and makes boats full of water sink. [my apologies to naval staff on SHIPS.] the girls were speechless. then they laughed. SO ayo gets the award for cliff notes; soraya gets the award for credible encyclopedic entry. thanks to both. we all appreciate having our questions answered.

[@Kawiturbo750]

20 years ago at 100 mph rain water did start to seep through my 100% Gore-Tex lineman's jacket.

[@jackvanderhyde8828]

My summer 2 layer Helly Hansen has never soaked thru. Even on the wettest and windiest day on Vancouver island, picking mushrooms all day. And it's 8 yrs old.

[@paulsallee4889]

That's magical....mushrooms I hope.

[@jackvanderhyde8828]

@@paulsallee4889 chanterelles and pine shrooms

[@dragonokwaho7062]

Fortnine vids r a sign of spring... glad ur bak!

[@courier11sec]

Well, I finally subscribed. You have made so many useful videos, and you present them very well. I don't even ride anymore thanks to an injury printing the sale of my dream Moto years back, but I don't think I'll ever stop caring about this stuff.

[@VPB1970]

Thank you sincerely! This is what we all need. Real would no BS tests that can actually be useful to the consumer.

[@clivegreenall309]

I thought you'd been abducted by aliens. Welcome back Ryan! Rgds from S Africa Clive

[@mattbott9492]

+1 Clive regards from SA

[@curtcs]

It would have been really interesting to include OutDry in this comparison.

[@douglasthompson2740]

In the real world it is body oils, regular dirt, repeated washings, etc. that bring these fabrics to their knees very quickly. As well as trapping body vapor which arises with any physical work being done. What permeation there is is minuscule compared to the body's at rest vapor much less when working. Hard to see the value of "water proofing" when you are drenched in sweat inside your expensive togs. You will get wet in wool in a downpour but you will also stay warm. If it is really coming down best to wear wool under a truly waterproof raincoat. Take care. Doug

[@kit_the_inevitable]

Diy waterproof jacket: wrap a sweater with garbage bag

[@jkempire]

Wow, you won me with this. Thank you and congratulations on that fantastic work. My absolute respect!

[@dixoncider7256]

I spent 3 days camping in a tent at NHRA this winter during constant rain cooking, walking, etc. in Frog Toggs and they worked great.

[@TheRokkis]

You know what's funny? I live in Finland and apart Gore-Tex every single one of those are "neverheards" for me. We have completely different set of "equivalents" in Finland (probably in Europe or Scandinavia more likely). Interesting whatsoever. Thanks man!

[@gmMendi]

Dainese and Alpinestar are worldwide brands of technical clothing, and they also sponsor major racing events. Scott is one of the most famous bike producers with their on world tour cycling team. I don't think there is a regional problem with them to be honest.

[@Tobias-qh5li]

@@gmMendi I have to agree with TheRokkis as a fellow scandinavian, I have never heard of any of the other brands then Gore-Tex (except scott but now we are talking about clothes and not bikes). But to make this a positive comment: I have a friend that buys a new Gore-Tex jacket every year, mostly bc he sends his old one in to be tested as its leaking and he gets a refund :) (mb a little old story but still true)

[@Razid320]

Alpinestars is a quite popular brand amongst finnish motorists.

[@hubert1142]

I just discovered your channel. I love the amount of effort you put into your vids. Great consumer advice!

[@JeffBourke]

1:00 correction, the shape and size of the tube doesn't matter.

[@human1513]

That's what she said. Lol.

[@gypsyjr1371]

I wore GoreTex hunting gear in driving rain and even snow while duck hunting for decades. Never so much as a damp spot. Lasted decades. Worth every penny!

[@johngalt6929]

I have a similar positive experience with Gore-Tex for waterfowl hunting, in and out of a boat. Definitely worth it!

[@bribbripnairbnab7301]

4 years later, but still illustrative. Froggs Toggs work well to keep water out from my experience. Dianese D_Dry seems like the best all around membrane. Thanks for the scientific testing. You are the Canadian motorcyclist equivalent of Project Farm. Cheers!

[@BodybuilderBuilds]

Bro how the hell did you manage to fade another m in at 1:30 props to your editing!

[@supernoodles908]

Fade another video on top of the old clip

[@GhastlyDerp]

It's just basic text on video.

[@thomaswarren2699]

I don't understand

[@g0bbl3Plz]

New generation Gortex pro. Costs the earth but also breaths amazingly

[@phililpb]

I used a lot of gortex garments whilst in the army. It is very good but for motorcycle clothing do you really need breathable waterproofs? I would think it is not worth the extra cost for this application unless you are an endurance rider

[@zakofrx]

@@phililpb people who live in Florida etc.... Non breather jackets suck in hot and humid climates.

[@phililpb]

True. But even gortex is not breathable enough in those conditions

[@solomonstemplers]

I am an ex soldier from late 1980's to early 1990's we embarked on a 3 yr residential posting in northern Ireland and for the 1st time issued gortex gear . My only conclusion with it was out the box brand spanking it was ok but further down the line after climbing through hedgerows and stuff it failed miserably. As for bikeing I have discovered that literally nothing is as advertised and nothing is entirely waterproof. Unless you can find a man size condom " that don't break".

[@johnbr59]

yeah, well the problem with waterproof membranes is that they tend to degrade over time, especially in footwear in my experience. i've had waterproof footwear (goretex and other) that is 100% waterproof for a while then spontaneously leaks. I suppose all the bending and internal friction etc leads to degrading. thats why i only wear my goretex boots when i absolutely need to. the boot itself will outlive the membrane. as far as jackets go, i've only recently invested in some goretex gear, so it remains to be seen how they hold up.

[@37wolverinedreams]

I have had my BMW gore-tex boots for 20 years, putting at least 200,000 miles on them, in snow, rain, hail, you name it. 6 round trips to Seattle in the winter from SF. Best investment I have ever made, along with the BMW R1150R, put 80,000 miles on it so far with no problems really, bought it used. w/40K on it. New clutch at 100K. That was an all day labor job. The valves can be adjusted in 40 minutes by a pro. I absolutely hate my Alpinestars Dry-stars. Someone stole my heated gear... Has this channel reviewed heated visors? My biggest problem ever was having my visor covered with snow, I couldn't see, but if I opened the visor the snow hit my eyes. Almost died.

[@spila123]

I recently waxed my 25y old goretex outdoor jacket. It has never been this waterproof! And it still breathes just as good, as there are 2 long zippers under my armpits for that reason 🙂 I now use it as outer shell when I ride in the rain.

[@brancebjones7205]

I'd be curious to see how this test changes after the garment/fabric goes through normal wear/abrasion, and maybe a couple of washes.

[@luf4rall]

thanks youtube algorithm. that was interesting.

[@notforkyfromdisney9837]

Please don’t leave us again Ryan. Our rations were incredibly low.

[@paulturkington1899]

Very informative video. Thanks. As a keen hiker, water and wind proofing is highly important. Especially in Britain’s temperamental weather. I’ve always had Berghaus goretex jackets and overtrousers. Not once has any of their gtx gear let me down. Even when it’s been raining sideways on Ben Nevis in the middle of autumn for many hours. Also incredibly breathable for when you’re getting a good sweat on

[@SkYsLiDeR9000]

I bought a Gore-Tex waterproof two piece bike suit from Hein Gerick for about £450 in 2002. It has been down the road once and is a bit scuffed on a shoulder pad. I still use it to this day. It has never 'leaked' whatever the amount of rain. All I get is a little damp up the inside of the sleeve, but my waterproof gloves deal with that. So, yeah, Gore-Tex for the win. Oh yeah, and the suit is warm too.

[@ryeprotagonist]

You may have been a bit harsh on Olympia. Middling results in each test, but priced affordably.

[@FortNine]

This is a very good point - thanks! ~RF9

[@vrich3733]

I agree, my Olympia Richmond Jacket keeps me dry but that has "Waterproof/breathable Reissa membrane" according to the website.

[@ryeprotagonist]

Yeah VRich, I have the Olympia Bradley which I believe is one model cheaper than yours. Through one season it has performed well and the rain shell in particular stood up to a very hard rain over several hours of riding. After that day, I felt I had to stand up for it in the comments here.

[@oklahomahank2378]

I have an older discontinued Olympia. I rode in the rain all day one day and stayed dry, though it was overall not a pleasant experience. But that was the jacket itself, not their rain suit.

[@oklahomahank2378]

I have an older discontinued Olympia. I rode in the rain all day one day and stayed dry, though it was overall not a pleasant experience.

[@roybatty-]

Frog Toggs will literally cook you alive. I put some on when I was in a pinch once and I sweat like I never sweat before.

[@jokari69]

literally ? You type pretty well for someone who has been cooked :-)

[@Blashkyrk]

dah...he's a replicant dude! He have watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate!

[@MadMaxJuggernaut]

I used to work at northface and we never explained 2.5L or 3L as litters, we were told that it is 2.5 layers or 3 layers and we were told to explain that to clients. As a 2.5L jacket is lighter than a 3L.

[@thomaspettit1416]

I worked in the cycle & outdoor industry for over 11 years, finishing as 'head of apparel' for a cycle company for 4 years. Having seen, tested, sold and owned tonnes of gear as well as dealt with returned/ faulty products I can say I hold Gore Tex in very high regard, and it should rightly be a peace-of-mind stamp of approval for selling and buying outdoor gear. 6 years on from working in these industries and I will still buy Gore Tex products with confidence over any others. The premium is worth it.

[@reecebyrne2790]

Gortex is brilliant. I have a golf gortex jacket and bottoms. Cost a lot but well worth it. Never get wet, even after being out for 4 hours in the rain

[@10--50]

Yeah he did the gore-tex, frogg toggs, alpine star, and dry-d BACKWARDS.. (testing the waterproof ability from the inside of the coat) Rainguard, revit and olympia he did right (from the outside) Unless you wear your garments inside out, these results are totally irrelevant. Definitely redo this test and with static pressure, (a big tube) and make sure they're facing the right way

[@Jester123ish]

Good point, also did he do a control to see if the air pressure test matched an actual column of water?

[@eldsprutandedrake]

The membranes arent directional though, there is no inside or outside when they are produced. For water proofing and breathability the direction is irrelevant...

[@Pottan23]

Isn't this more of a tensile strength test of the jackets than a waterproof test?

[@BradyPatterson]

How do you figure that, because of the psi applied? I can see your perspective on it but this kind of testing is essentially how clothing manufacturers set their ratings, albeit in a lab setting rather than a garage...hopefully.

[@Pottan23]

​@@BradyPatterson Because a crappy thin plastic bag, that 100% is going to remain waterproof in any normal situation, would achieve piss poor stats in a test like this and the conclusion would be that it isn't waterproof at all. It only survived up to 1 PSI or whatever. 5:57 for example, it's clear the fabric would remain waterproof for longer but the pressure exceeds it's tensile strength. 25 psi x 704 (industry standard conversion) = 17.600mm. At no point during your life will you encounter a seventeen and a half meter tall pillar of water suddenly crashing down on you and if you do the fabric of your jacket "feeling thin and weak" is the least of your worries. This is not critique of FortNine, you are correct this test seems to be the industry standard however in situations when the waterproofness of a fabric exceeds it's tensile strength we get shoddy results. Yay for quick and easy to test numbers the manufacturers can slap on a garment I guess. IMO it's the equivalent of measuring helmet safety solely on the hardness of the outer shell. Except no one dies for wearing a jacket with a waterproofness not 100% in line with what the label says...

[@RenaxTM91]

@@Pottan23 "At no point during your life will you encounter a seventeen and a half meter tall pillar of water suddenly crashing down on you" You've never been to Norway have you? Jokes aside, I agree. I'd bet the industry standard has some backing on the material being tested, to prevent it from ripping. some strong but not at all waterproof fabric/mesh...

[@adriangodoy4610]

@@Pottan23 wouldn't the test be valid not letting the membrane deform? let the membrane be over a table or something like that?

[@87Sakiel]

@@adriangodoy4610 good point

[@tsundokus]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh why were you gone for so long I missed you

[@ctrlaltdisease]

I am thinking about buying my first bike. Found this video interesting regardless of motorbike related content. Instant sub because you don't ask me to like or subscribe, just provided great content, and maybe ill learn something about motorbikes. Excellent work.

[@DeepPastry]

Nerd in me sort of loves Gore-Tex taping the seems still to this day... Because that is thanks to the US Army. Gen 1 Gore-Tex jackets did NOT come with taped seems, and there was leakage. When you spend a week outdoors in the cold drizzle, it became a serious issue (a whole week, both day and night). Thus the taped seems fix, that is still a part of the Gore-Tex line. When issued said jacket, we had to lift up and look under the inner liner, to ensure our Gen 1 Jackets all had that tape splooged into place over all those seems. That was just to ensure none of the original jackets that leaked got issued, instead we got the repaired... Upgraded... Versions.

[@wildone2163]

your test have one big flaw, membranes such a s gore-tex need temperature/humidity difference between inner body and outside air to work/breath well.

[@macvos]

You're right, although there is a significant humidity difference in the video ;)

[@lmlm2500]

Goretex works better in a dryer environment like the Alps. In the UK where it is pretty damp, not so well.

[@alan-sk7ky]

@@lmlm2500 indeed, I was of the understanding that a temperature gradient was v desirable across the membrane to promote the vapour transport. i'd never really had a proper Gore-tex experience until i bought a pair of mil surp British army gore-tex boot liners (think socks) they are fantastic they actually dry the feet out I find and as a result warmer too, this I think is the temp gradient at work through the non water proof shoes (they were bought for emergency biking use etc) back to the point though, as for clothing cant say as any of the breathable coats and jackets i have are particularly drying which i suspect is due to the external temp not being low enough to drive the gradient, which figures as you've got a coat and base layer and a fleece etc etc BECAUSE its cold for the insulation! which you are wearing because it prevents that temp gradient through your clothes under the top coat which is on the outside of the insulation layers where the insulation has done its work in reducing the gradient before the outer breathable membrane can us it to assist vapour transport etc. What I really want to know is how to stop getting a wet arse sitting on me motorbike, none of the waterproof trousers i've ever had have managed this for very long, the crotch seams always crap out regardless of who made them :-|

[@lmlm2500]

@@alan-sk7ky try the British Army Pro boots. They are Goretex. Amazing boots. Minus the big hole on the top where your foot goes! Another thing to point out with waterproofs is. They need looking after and to be reproofed (depending how much and how much you abuse them) . Products like Nikwax is designed to do this. It does work wonders. *note* once the water on your waterproofs stops beading. It's time to reproof. This is key to keeping it working. The whole Goretex lifetime guarantee is a load of nonsense. It needs reproofing. On the mountains, it isn't unheard of to wear two goretex jackets. Because around the zips and seams, water can push through. Try two layers on your trousers?? Another waterproofing system I have found to be very impressive and actually outlast Goretex on the mountains. Side by side, is Mountain Equipments Drilite material. Their Rainfall pant I was very impressed with. About £80 compared to a goretex over trouser at £150+ But!! Saying that. I did however put my boot through the crotch of my Rainfall pant, whilst trying to get them on in a blizzard a few years ago!

[@christianmiller6046]

Why am I drunkenly planning my PCT hike tonight?

[@nikolaim5]

Great vid as usual! I do wonder about the test method though. The increasing PSI stretched and expanded the materials like a balloon in some cases. I dont feel that's a fair representation of how these materials function in the wild.

[@robertmiller2289]

From years of experience in Alaska; Gore-Tex is fine if the grass & brush are dry and not a lot of rain, it works fine. However, if you combine these three things, Gore-Tex and similar clothing will get wet and if camping , hunting, fishing, photography etc., they take a huge amount of time to dry, more often than not a couple of days in a heated cabin, and longer if your in a tent.

[@nsncxd]

Fieldsheer being capable of making a membrane that allows for water to pass through but unable for vapors to passthrough is honestly the most impressive thing here