Forza Motorsport's Dirty Secret Exposed by Ex Developer...

Originally planned to be my 'The State of Forza Motorsport in 2024' video has instead taken a bit of a turn...
Check the original video here - • The Exhausting develop...
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Edited by: Stonix

[@Sniper_JarateTF2]

They recycle employees just like how they recycle their car models from the 1st game lol PD : i almost forgot to mention that they copy pasted the V12 Aventador sound into the Murcielago💀💀

[@BlackPanthaa]

💀

[@FranquitoMV2004]

I saw the Murcielago sound thing, what have they done😔again

[@javaboygames02]

To every racing game every lambo is the same sound. WHY

[@FranquitoMV2004]

@@javaboygames02 not every, in NFS and The Crew they sound like V12s but they do sound different

[@jdmandsuch6739]

Ooof that hurt... why can't they bring back trading and leaving paint from forza 1. Also that you could over rev your motor and damage it from the starting line😅 great times

[@Sam22112]

this was exactly how Halo Infinite was ruined. Cycling employees

[@lillexus5589]

Forza awaits the same faith

[@falcongamer58]

It doesn't help how both ditched numbers and have the same washed out look

[@vicenteabarca5781]

It’s an issue with h microsoft sadly, they interfere too much with their studios development

[@falcongamer58]

@@vicenteabarca5781 I thought Phil said he wanted a hands off attitude

[@FiltiarnYT]

At least Infinite got fixed... see everyone in 4 years when FM works

[@existentialselkath1264]

Gotta love how Chris Esaki specifically stated the nordschleife had been rescanned and remade right before launch, and its just a remaster of the inaccurate FM5 track. Not misleading, actually lying to our faces.

[@falcongamer58]

I'm glad he left

[@existentialselkath1264]

@@falcongamer58 he very clearly had talking points from marketing he had to cover. That was obvious to anyone watching the forza monthlies. Don't rush to blame someone when you have no idea what happened. Maybe it's his fault, maybe it's the people above him, but it seems like a more systemic issue at Microsoft to me. This whole thing is like a 1to1 recreation of the halo infinite debacle

[@falcongamer58]

@@existentialselkath1264 yes

[@justinlzy]

This Esaki dude is such a fraud

[@TheTomekEffect]

​@@falcongamer58He left? I didn't know.

[@DeejayJeanP]

Just proves more and more what I've been saying for months: Microsoft's formula for every game is just to make as much money, while investing as little as possible. They don't make games for entertainment, they make games for profit.

[@spikypikachu1162]

Seems like what most corporations/companies are doing now too. You got EA, Activision, Ubisoft even. You got ones outside of gaming and entertainment as a whole. Our whole system is just fucked beyond belief. And has been for a long while.

[@MattMajcan]

@@spikypikachu1162corporations/companies putting profit first? what a radical, totally new concept.

[@ShuraIKX]

That’s lowkey scummy af. They’re getting devs to train their future replacements? There’s just something insanely sketchy about that and from Microsoft of all companies it’s wild

[@uchihadeity1158]

It's common practice in a lot of corporate environments. The objective is to often pay the newbies less than their mentors while getting a similar work level from them. Companies are extremely scummy and sit with lawyers all day trying to see which contracts they can draw up that allow them to commit criminal loopholes to screw over their employees while paying themselves the most.

[@cin2110]

My dad used to work in a government electrical company here in Turkey then our corrupt government sold the company for some ez money, first thing they did after that was make my father train his replacement.

[@japanesecar1501]

Yeah. me-me-me, and "Don´t worry, we´ll have our faces full with the dollars once everything goes to shit"- Bet some believe that they will be the ones to survive "the apocalypse" they look so forward to. So they can "start anew", as the enlightened, without the disgusting commoners.

[@Redslayer86]

MS is going in a very bad direction in general. Their games are going to get much worse going forward.

[@succulenttrash3343]

Its like FM goes backwards on everything FH does now. FH5 made a whole big deal after the backlash from FH4 about car sounds, and they revamped the sounds, just for FM to come back and give the same Ferrari V12 sounds to every Ferrari and the same Lamborghini V12 sound to every Lamborghini. They've had 10 years since the Xbox One came out to remodel their cars and get rid of the old car models and remake them, yet in 2023/24 we're getting car models that have been in the series since 2005. Forza used to be leagues ahead of Gran Turismo and I have my own issues with GT7 but they at least give a certain amount of care to their car models and car details. Forza used to make a big deal about the Forzavista and now its just another mode they have. And the disconnect very obviously lies within Microsoft HQ, I'm putting 100% blame on them and their practices

[@succulenttrash3343]

It's not like Forza fans have been asking for much. Yes its very annoying when people go "oh bring back *old game from franchise*" but when you think about it, Motorsport hasn't REALLY evolved since 2017 and Horizon hasnt REALLY evolved aince 2016 besides the introduction of EventLabs in FH5. I miss when Jeremy would talk about cars in FM4 and I miss when Warren had a description for every car manufacture and sometimes specific cars in FH3, because they gave an amount of care and dedication that didn't seemed stopped by Microsofts greed with cutting corners to save money everywhere. And Motorsport has the underlyings to be a genuinely good game but it just has such a corporate feel and censorship over it that makes it feel like a waste of resources because its very obvious that Microsoft just sees this franchise as a gamepass seller and not as an actual racing game that people love and have been frustrated with for years

[@falcongamer58]

Preach

[@nicolascordobaprado3455]

@@succulenttrash3343 That is true, the franchise is able to get to where it is now because "omg the graphics man! so realistic bro!". In fact a lot of video games are hitting the plateau of getting to real life aspects that they don't know how else to carry

[@succulenttrash3343]

@@nicolascordobaprado3455 its so weird for them to be riding the coattails of "insane graphics" when they have car models that are old enough to vote and a grading blue fog filter over every track that makes every single track make me want to fall asleep when playing. Its very clear that Microsoft wants Forza to be a graphics showcase but doesn't want them to put the effort into letting them make actually good car models. And its gonna bite them in the ass when people switch over to GT7

[@Kev27RS]

@@nicolascordobaprado3455 I agree! It’s getting so realistic that there’s not much more to do with car video games nowadays!

[@MrKneegrow]

Oh damn, Turn 10 has basically done to Forza what Microsoft did to Xbox One (and Xbox as a whole) in it's 2013 unveil. It's having an identity crisis.

[@blackmario903]

Its a dumpster fire mate, I can only imagine what they're going to do to Call of duty , now that the Activision deal went through 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

[@TinyBearTim]

@@blackmario903the cod devs just re skin the same game over and over sooooo

[@banshotenin1178]

The shady things businesses do to good hard working employees to "save money" is something that happens all over corporate. One of the many reasons I fought tooth and nail to leave corporate. Whether ur an engineer, and IT programmer, an armament procurement development manager, a WWE Wrestler, an Automotive designer or a Game Developer...the corporate backstage BS politicking and dodgy loopholing always ruins the environment for the people actually doing the hard work to make the company thrive. And we're supposed to rely on these companies to pay rent, levies, utilities, groceries, fuel, medical and education (plus a lot more). Just like that all ur plans to survive conventionally the way school taught u, end up in the toilet. And the people at the top don't care as long as they don't have to take a pay cut.

[@senshi_dev_art]

I'm so glad someone else gets it and knows it like it actually is

[@banshotenin1178]

@@senshi_dev_art Thanks bud. Since I was a teen, that song ""little boxes" always made it abundantly clear to me most adults are unhappy and a lot of it springs from their place of work. Since we spend most of out lives at work and most of the time it's not a great environment. Years later at my first job I realized even the people who were "doing well" like in management positions weren't happy. It dawned on me when one afternoon I was walking back with my GF from the gas station next to where I worked and a man in an Audi S4 asked if they sold lotto tickets there, they said no and he drove off. It hit me that even though he had a nice car and likely a nice job that at the time I'd much rather have, he too was trying to escape his corporate prison. The months that proceeded made it even clearer, especially after two of my friends at the company left (One was fired and the other died in a car crash) how easily they were replaced like they were never there. All of those XPs made it abundantly clear we're just cogs in a wheel to them.

[@nicolascordobaprado3455]

I did my internship in an electric motor prototyping company that is the subsidiary to a corporation in USA, a lot of bad things happening were due to the higher ups doing stuff they shouldn't be doing. I believe that with the new technology at hand, we won't need to survive with corporations at hand

[@john7156]

The fact that the developers had additional time to reboot and overhaul Forza Motorsport after Motorsport 7, but they still have so many issues at launch is a disappointment for players. They claimed it was built from the ground up but there are cars and tracks that are recycled from older Motorsport games.

[@japanesecar1501]

"We went all the way from sea level for this climb!" To the same top level aswell.

[@ozi5269]

PD nailed track sim singleplayer with GT4 and for some reason it's impossible for everyone to just copy it.

[@Hailtothebreak]

This is probably the most frustrating thing about Forza AND GT both fucking up. They have a really really good exemple that somehow everyone ignores.

[@GTSW1FT]

Its kinda funny how both franchises when down after their 4th entry

[@FranquitoMV2004]

Forza Motorsport has a dark secret...fanboys refuse to admit the game has been a frickin broken mess since launch🗿🗿 I aint replying to crying answers

[@lesig1297]

Racing game of the year btw.......

[@emaadally5658]

Good cause you shouldn’t be wasting your time arguing with delusional kids.

[@RidgeRunner4501]

I haven’t seen a single person saying the game wasn’t a mess, you’re fighting with people that don’t exist 💀

[@Sniper_JarateTF2]

You already touched one guy's nerve😂and i bet there's plenty more incoming🤣

[@Sniper_JarateTF2]

@@RidgeRunner4501 you should re-check the replies and the hole internet bro, there's people meat riding and praising it everywere, like if it was a God of some kind

[@Rob-gs8lq]

I came across that video months before this upload and what I got from it was that not only does T10 have developers on short term contract, but they don't hire the right developers with sim racing or automotive experience. If they hired the right developers and gave those developers time to grow in their roles within the studio we wouldn't have the mess we got.

[@darrenfaulkner6896]

Best comment I've heard. Exactly. I really can't believe that's what happened in Turn 10. I always said to myself, they need to stop fixing what isn't broken. " Don't fix it if it ain't broke", which is exactly their doing. I still have hope, as a Forza day one fan since 2005, at least Dan Greenwalt is still there.

[@Touton701]

Diversity equity and inclusion hiring ruined both movies and games because companies were forced to hire people for diversity’s sake instead of focusing on car enthusiasts who want to make games or “for there specific needs” whatever it be

[@banshotenin1178]

I used to be such a Forza fan. From like 2009 - 2018, I was the biggest Forza fan. But now it seems to be sitting in that "These games now suck" place that GT sat in from 2010 - 2021/22. Motorsport 7 was the first Motorsport I genuinely didn't enjoy and I'm really trying to enjoy this Motorsport but honestly i'm enjoying GT 7 on PS5 a lot more. GT7 is not perfect, but it's better than Motorsport...which is something I hadn't been able to say since GT5 dropped and FM4 a year later completely owned the sim cade racing space. I also rather just go back to FH5, but i usually just play that to get the new car like that Merc SL63 (which I was already driving in Motrofest) then leave Horizon 5 for a few months. FH3 was o damn epic, even now when I play it; it's still amazing for a game from 2016 adn feels a lot more alive and vibrant than what was to follow...coz ever since 4 dropped, it gets boring for me.

[@blackmario903]

They peaked at fh3 tbh

[@banshotenin1178]

@@blackmario903 That's true

[@spikypikachu1162]

I agree. However for Motorfest it just gets stale after a little while in that. And I can’t find much to do after completing everything. And I feel limited a bit from it too. However, I play horizon 5 the most. The new Motorsport just isn’t doing it for me sadly. And it sucks. But I’ve been playing real sims like Assetto Corsa Competizione more often because that gives me more enjoyment. Or project cars 1 and 2, and so on.

[@blackmario903]

@@spikypikachu1162 yup, I feel the exact same way! I keep coming back to horizon even tho I hate the whole festival racer genre since it’s more fun than motorfest. Motorfest just feels like a map expansion version of the crew 2 tbh.

[@S55M3]

You enjoyed motorsport 5? I’m not sure where I’d put 8 against 5 because they were both terrible, FM4 was peak

[@UItimateGuitarCovers]

I have seen this video, re microsoft, its called 18/6, work for 18 months and can't be re-employed for a minimum of 6 months. I think for such a big company its disgusting

[@KTR_ProrataEevee]

How to NOT get off forza's blacklist... Informative video, though makes you wonder how similar this game is to gt sport...

[@AxelShifter]

these same 18 month contracts killed Halo Infinite. We lost all our dev support and we dont even get season updates anymore just small updates and it took 2-3 years just to finish the game to include all modes and features past Halos would have at launch.

[@DurrtyRBeats]

I'm using a RX 580, since update 1.0 -2.0 i racked up about 441 hours of playtime... but since update 3.0 i’ve not been able to launch the game. and update 5.0 just give me an error code ( Unsupported graphics card detected code AP205 ) Failed to create D3D12 Graphics device… can’t even get a refund because i have 441 hours playtime.... T10 won't fix this problem or even acknowledge the problem...

[@youngricostona8793]

Same

[@Justmakewaves2024]

Same for me

[@Mega3iD]

I had the same issue but with i3 CPU before update 3.0 game worked in 720p 60fps even in replays. I had info that mu CPU is not suported but I could ignore that in pop up menu and lunch the game. after update 3 game crash on start, sad that it doesnt work anymore. I have RX 570 4GB low settings and game worked now its not.

[@NJDJ1986]

FM has only improved the graphics, but they taken away everything else! @8:25 Theo: _"Yup"_ *echo noise*

[@richpoor146]

The racing physics and audio put gt7 to shame. Fscts

[@andreasmoller9798]

@@richpoor146false the sounds are more accurate in gt7 facts, fm 23 has garbage sounds, fh5 has much better sounds, and improved campared to fh4 but motorsport has just going downhill since fm6, fm7 had even better sounds than fm 23 and that was still worse sounds than fm6 somethimg must have gone very wrong, and not just sounds shifting is terrible as well, dct shifts like manuals, gt7 wipes the floor with fm 23 in almost every aspect,

[@SakoRichards]

@@richpoor146sure, if you consider fwd cars power sliding out of corners accurate physics….

[@takedaiori]

As a former xbox pr agent I have to say FM's marketing strategy was also a chaos. They don't want FM to be a hard core sim, thry wanna FM catch more racing game players, but they only show the graphics the car details the user-friendly assisst options, that makes me believe that they wanna only use that assisst options to attract casual players rather than cool and fun gameplay or game design. I'm sure that Microsoft's internal team wants FM to be a GT competitor and expand the player base in Microsoft's own style, but they didn't do either of those things well.

[@MeltWithU]

The thing is, I’m sure they could do both but, they have to cater to the hard-core fans first. I understand wanting to attract a bigger audience. But they have to get the sim part of it right in order to please the hard-core players and then they can add on a story mode or whatever they want to attract the casual. It seems seems like truly backwards thinking from the company. I’m also not a fan of considering the majority of their employees subcontractors. Which relieves them from paying taxes and insurance. Which is ridiculous. The fact that there is no sense of loyalty to good employees or a sense of stability for those employees… Makes anybody work and get any developer only wanna work hard enough to keep their job. They never care about the project they are working on, because at the end of it… They probably won’t be employed. It’s a terrible way to do business and it explains a lot about Microsoft games and why they don’t live up to the standards of Sony single player games. I’m sure the same thing goes on there, but somehow… Someway, they keep the quality in place. Microsofts did this with the original Xbox and the Xbox 360, and from that point on… they left the slogan gamers for the gamers behind and simply focused on the profit. Without realizing that without the quality, the profit is always going to be less. Piss off your customers enough, and they become customers of other platforms. It sucks. I thought Phil was the Messiah of bringing the company back. Which he has been in many ways… this is above his head. I don’t know. I’m sure he’s doing the best he can. But he hast to be frustrated with all of the backlash with every first party game that releases. It doesn’t take a scientist to realize that a games quality is not that of which customers want. But it seems like the company has a hole has taken on the mindset of, it’s good enough. I’d be interested to hear your opinion on it since you worked for them.

[@takedaiori]

​@@MeltWithU It's complicated imo, so I can only speak about my story. The biggest dilemma I faced while working for xbox was that the budget Microsoft gave us was always tight, and we didn't have any way to do campaigns that exceeded our budget, actually that little budget only allowed us to do some very basic PR work. I don't think it was just our PR department. Contractor seems to corroborate this. But since I'm in a department that's very far from marketing team or development team, I don't have solid proof of this, but I have a strong feeling about this. With Xbox right now, budget is most likely the big issue plaguing the entire team. And, I don't want to get personal, but my client - my PR lead - is not a gamer at all, she worked for luxury brands and fashion magazines before taking over the PR business for Xbox(only one region, not global), and knows nothing about video games. She couldn't understand what was good or bad about video games and never cared about gamer or community feedback. While this is a very serious accusation, I believe that there are a number of such managers within Xbox who know nothing about video games. It seems to me that some sort of bureaucratic way of doing things and strict budget and time constraints are making xbox worse and worse, and it's a problem that will take a long time to fix.

[@MeltWithU]

@@takedaiori I appreciate you getting back and saying what you could. What I don’t understand is, they can go out and buy all of these developers and spend billions of dollars… which is only adding to the dilemma… Because their biggest issue facing them right now is lack of customer satisfaction when it comes to their first titles. The quality of them is sometimes worse than a AA developer with a dozen or two of employees, when some of their development teams are in the hundreds. I’m sure it’s not for lack of trying by the developers working on the games. Like you said, it probably has a lot to do with budget. But at the same time, they’re spending all of this money to acquire all of these studios… But not giving those studios to resources they need to create the experiences that people want to play. Which makes no sense whatsoever. Without that great software, exciting people over the hardware… They lose on both fronts. They wonder why hardware sales have stagnated, but do nothing to improve the quality of the software in order to drive the public to buy the hardware. I’m sure it’s an issue with many companies. But you would figure in a business that is driven on customer satisfaction, that good enough would not be good enough. Especially when they get the instant feedback from their customer base telling them the opposite of what they want to hear. It makes me wonder if somebody like Phil, is caught in the middle of this struggle. Where he’s trying to do what is best for the system and the games, but is hog tied by unrealistic budgets and time constraints. There’s only so much you can do within the constraints of a system that doesn’t understand exactly what they are building and how to maintain it. Who isn’t listening to their customers, but their investors instead. Making me wonder why any company ever goes public, other than to draw money to the funding of research and development. Again, I thank you for the reply. It gives an insight on why things are happening the way they are. Makes decisions they have made over the past couple years a lot clearer. I just wonder at this point if there is any going back to the Xbox or Xbox 360 model and if there is a way to curb development costs without destroying quality. again, thank you. Definitely an enlightening conversation.

[@takedaiori]

@@MeltWithU You're welcome, bro. And I totally agree and respect everything you said!

[@jpolimus]

@@MeltWithUdunno man been gaming for at least 30 yrs now. AA don’t mean 💩 so far the most well sorted experiences have been coming from independent production teams.

[@FakeName-xm7kj]

The reason they use those contracts has to do with Washington State laws regarding independent contractors.

[@RidgeRunner4501]

I want them to add more permanent championships to the standard career mode vs the revolving ones that disappear in a month

[@ld9387]

Exactly!!! Like the mobile game Real Racing 3

[@kpegc]

In an ideal work, this is how live service games would work. Games would simply have content permanently added to them as time goes on, with nothing like always online DRM preventing players from playing what is in the base game normally. Games would still be brimming with variety and lengthy campaigns at release; nothing would ever be taken away from them with these updates. Ironically, I think Polyphony got the live service model right with GT6 and GT Sport. All they did was add content to the existing game as time went on, and you still got access to all the content from the day 1 game regardless of whether or not you were online. Very little if any of it was time limited, too. To this day, you do not need to be online to progress normally through either game, even though their servers are defunct.

[@MattMajcan]

@@kpegc gaming used to be like that. Games like WoW and eve online and many others were subscription based and they simply kept getting bigger and better for many many years without ever needing to make a new game or buy a new game. Then dumb gamers started buying DLC and microtransactions and subscrition games became outdated and less profitable, and now here we are. theres no reason anymore to keep updating and adding to a game when you could just make a completely new game with 20 dlc's and charge people for all of them. people love to blame studios but the studios are just giving the gamers what they wanted.

[@roguedogx]

3:26 okay so that explains a lot and it's annoying just how many people seem to be in the same "layoff boat" I've Been in.

[@roguedogx]

4:40 so life after layoff (I think it was them) did a much better breakdown of this, but the short answer is if the stress of the job will cause turn over anyways it doesn't matter. Now this strategy works so long as the company can keep finding new young talent to take their place. With the gray wave coming that's gonna be hard. The gray wave refers to the retirement of boomers shrinking the workforce and reducing the amount of experienced talent available.

[@roguedogx]

5:27 long story short NDAs use to prevent those kinds of videos. The department of labor said "you can't do that anymore" and if they've left the company there's not much Microsoft can do now. Before if they had an NDA they absolutely could have sued. Now they can't, so long as he didn't divulge IP.

[@itspranavk]

Wasn't expecting a r/WorkReform arch for this channel haha! Glad to see Theo speaking about the "contractor" vs "employee" issue in the US. Sadly, this is quite common in the tech industry where companies recycle new grads every few years since its often cheaper to pay for entry-level "contractor" positions.

[@Touton701]

The community needs to work together to request actual good ideas to make the game better. Like why aren’t we grouping together to ask for better car customization for example, Trd customization for Toyota and SVT customization for Ford and every other example that you could give since they already have the licensing for each brand it would make sense because they already have the license from that specific brand they wouldn’t need to spend any more money, getting new licensing agreements for aftermarket customization because it’s not aftermarket as such. Or why aren’t we requesting better audio quality whether it be revving deceleration down shift backfire as well as better car choice Give us every generation Mustang Camaro, charger, challenger, Evo, Subaru, STI, and any other car that’s currently featured in the game and again they already have the licensing so it’s not gonna be expensive or hard

[@kpegc]

I think the game would benefit immensely from interior customization. You could swap out the stock seats and steering wheel for more performance & race oriented equipment from Sparco, Simpson, OMP, Bride, Recaro, etc. Midnight Club LA and Import Tuner Challenge from the Xbox 360 era implemented this mechanic pretty well, but I think Forza could go further by letting you change out the stock gauges for a digital dash like the ones companies such as Holley or Motec make. Essentially, I think you should be able to make the interior of your car look more like that of an actual race car. Turn 10 could also add pre-made liveries to both the editor and the paint selector you see when purchasing a car. I don't mean community made liveries, but rather realistic, race or tuner like paint jobs like the ones in pre release screenshots and trailers from FM1 & FM2. I think the NFS Shift games mastered this by offering a selection of realistic, pre-made liveries, and I think Forza could really benefit from doing something similar. It would be a great option for those who want to make their cars look unique, but don't want to spend loads of time making something from scratch in the livery editor or those who just want a pre-made livery that they could then tweak and change as they see fit.

[@istvanlorinczi2817]

Similar thing also explains why BMW's cars look and drive the way they do (also reported by ex-BMW employee) BMW has divisions inside of it, as every other corporation, like exterior design, interior design, marketing, and so on. BMW has around a decade or 2 ago changed it's policies so their employees HAVE to change their divisions every 1.5 year or so. That explains why basically everything they made post E90 3 Series is a mess. One product planner starts working on a car, and before they can finish working on it (since production cycles take 3-5 years on average) they get forcably replaced by someone else that doesn't neccessarily know what the new car's goal is, or doesn't know the design language in mind, and so on. Look at W124, W201 and R129 Mercedes', they still look modern, and they look consistent, despite that model run going on for nearly 2 decades, they were all designed by the same man from beginning to end

[@firedell1031]

What Forza Motorsport *NEEDS* is to literally just copy/paste the career mode from FM1 and FM2. You do that and the single-player is entirely fixed, truly. For multiplayer, it's not bad, but the fact that all the races are scheduled makes it a bit hard to just hop in and do a race. There's just so much you have to wait for. This can be fixed VERY easily by simply adding custom lobby browser just like FM4 had. The answers are literally that simple, but they refuse to do it.

[@lukereyes6266]

Because it's a lose lose. Either they keep the game and keep receiving hate or they copy/paste the stories and ppl get mad about said copy/paste

[@firedell1031]

@@lukereyes6266 Nah, people have been asking them to just re-do the FM1 and FM2 career since FM3 lmao. So around 15 years at this point. And there is literally no downside to having custom lobby browser.

[@joshbacon8241]

Why does Microsoft do this to avoid having to pay out employee benefits to devs/contractors?

[@stephenwilliams7200]

They have totally messed up the penalty system.With this update you will get four second penalty for someone hitting the back of you

[@Amelie-eh3jc]

Can't wait to see what else you have up your sleeve!

[@lesig1297]

In all honesty, I feel like if the upgrading system was like this upon release the game would not have received as much hate.

[@lesig1297]

But don't get it twisted, this game is still a broken mess.

[@ProGen6]

FM 2023 has been the biggest disappointment ever for me. What an absolute failure of a game.

[@RavenTeamCharlie]

That video was the reason why I stopped getting angry. Its a microsoft problem not a Turn 10 one. The 18 month contract was something that came to light durrung that whole ABK acquisition and explains why alot of the xbox games have been suffering. Unfortunately until MS deviate from this and actually employ their staff this will continue and as this happens in every devision of Microsoft, I'm not holding any hope that they will.

[@k1rb0i]

After how bad FH5 was I convinced myself to never pick up another Forza title. all of the lying, recycling audio & models, missing content and quality of life to ultimately be so dull and boring. Atleast other racing titles are trying with improving their sound design. or making it accurate as possible.

[@romanflores5505]

Did you mean FH4? Cause most of FH5 engine audio is the best second to maybe motorfest. Depending on the car/engine. I think FH5 is hread as far as sound design. I also play with a dolby atmos surround sound, so maybe your audio setup isnt up to par.

[@romanflores5505]

I share your sympathies with the new FM8 though, that games boring.

[@etftransam]

Just add in drag already

[@Rockport1911]

1:59 I strongly hope Horizon 6 isnt using this garbage engine. If they cant render some trees near a track properly, how are they ging to load a whole open world country?

[@dylansandoval9841]

I don't think they can make up to fans at this point. I've been left super disappointed with the current entry on so many levels. The recycled models and car sounds are just so lazy that it's heartbreaking from a once great studio who used to put so much passion into their games.

[@HyperMango_]

My biggest turndown for fm2023 is little to no offline unlike the other games, and no race cars in career, as well as where is splitscreen? Edit: almost forgot the horrendous livery and wheel textures mostly on ai

[@GR1MRACER]

Heres what they should do from my point of view. (someone who is 3rd prestige with 140 lvl 50 cars) Carpass should be atleast 2 VERY NEW to forza cars a week. 2 Spotlight cars a week that should always be new cars but could be returning missing cars. Car balance is wack in the Racecars. Some cars only get a restrictor or doesn't even restrict power causing the hopper cars get focused only on the power cars. When you select race tires there should be a option to have the tire lettering on the cars. Add Vinyls to the windows, Jesus Turn10 when The Crew has a better paint booth than you something is wrong. Sure engine swaps are great but when you are building a old camaro or a nova and you have a I6 from a chrysler, a hemi, a 6.2 LS, a Viper motor, a Enzo v12 and a race truck motor. But other than the LS no other chevy motors? I wish we could put in the GT3 Chevy motors in those cars. Same with the other cars. Put the AMG-One motor in the 190E, and Electric swaps that wont let you tune the gearing or the power output is terrible. Some Electric cars need a better swap.

[@rokkudayo]

If there was a game that embodied the concept of lacking a personality it would be this one.

[@BTFxDrumMachine]

At this point we can only hope Playground Games can push Horizon to the moon. Cuz if it is true and T10 is just cycling people out to save a buck, the series is dead. The first 4 games were GOAT because everyone had the same vision and passion, roll call stayed mostly the same, and they were actually fun. You switch out people every year and a half and everything feels inconsistent and no one is putting their soul into it, because its just a paycheck and a resume addition to them at that point.

[@R4ZORLIGHT]

"Losing" the talent is the nr 1 issue of most studios with a good reputation, releasing garbage. Remember, companies are just names without the talent behind it, the people!

[@igrvks]

It is really unfortunate they insist on using that particular abbreviation for car points.

[@lukereyes6266]

What would you suggest they change it to?

[@igrvks]

@@lukereyes6266 Anything else than CP would be a good starting point.

[@Swerve_Gotti]

Contract workers on most development teams don't make up the bulk of the dev team - it's a way to add extra resources for shorter periods of time (i.e. maybe I don't need X number of artists for the full dev cycle, but I need more for this part of the dev cycle, so it makes sense to get contractors instead of RFTs). Also, sometimes its difficult to fill open positions just due to the job market, so you might get a contractor to fill a need short-term while looking for the right candidate to fill that position long-term. It's definitely NOT cheaper per hour (contractors don't get paid more, but the amount the company pays is sometimes higher than RFTs because the contracting company gets a cut) but may be cheaper over the course of the project because they aren't there the whole time + not responsible for benefits, etc.

[@Dryadsons]

This is all going to hurt lots of games in the long run because M$ will continue to do this and with all the new studios they acquired. Are also going to fall short

[@superstuntman1904]

Not only recycling your employees every 18 months to stop benefits. So stupid. It also just doesn't get the work done and again projects will never truly be finished. They always come out of buggy mess because again, you're having developers swapped out every 18 months. Once you learn the engine, you're basically swapped out with someone who doesn't know the engine. In turn, you're basically pressing the big old reset button every 18 months.

[@REEEALS.A]

Drifting, lighting, drag racing, 2player splitscreen racing ,interior modifications window vinyls, neon lights ,anti lag ...... anything else to add?

[@DragonFlySlayer-wf6ne]

One big thing that's keeping me from buying a sim I'll regret buying is the fact that nobody seems to drive this sim from inside the car. Arcade thing? Which isn't bad. Their fun. They have their place. But I'm looking at this, or trying to see it from a sim aspect. I'm guessing it's not.

[@gurukast]

For some companies someone working for a continuous period more than that, they may have to hire them officially, so they won't renew a contract just like that. Some "clever" companies, what they do is wait amonth, and then rehire the same people, because that month "breaks" the continuous employment

[@I_Punch_Demons]

The saddest thing about this video is that it doesnt fix anything . Voting with your wallet doesnt work and boycotting is ineffective. So long as there are a few whales it incentivises this behavior. As long as that exists, or there is no labor reform here in the states, Microsoft has no incentive to listen to content creators or fans.

[@R19Robbin]

I played this game for 1 hour and never touched it again 😅😂

[@irvingmartinez98]

Same! I lasted two hours at most

[@M5BLLHM]

500 hour in this game 😂

[@ashdog236]

@@M5BLLHM same

[@Swizer_]

9:22 you can see through the car at the wheel...

[@vincentbruins8320]

As is the case with the real Cadillac DPi car. What's your point?

[@ld9387]

It's supposed to be like that

[@eldavieo]

The biggest problem with this game is the penalty system and the rammers

[@falcongamer58]

They lost that dog in them. I recently played Forza 4, 5, and 6, and these games, even if they didn't live up to Forza 4, they still felt like the developers had a bigger vision and passion. That passion left when they made Forza 7 and the current motorsport

[@dabro1569]

I don’t worry about the Horizon series. Remember, Horizon 5 was reviewed at 10/10 on a lot of websites and some called it Game of the Year. Playground games has overshadowed Turn 10 in innovation, frame rate, graphics, sound and precision. Totally backwards. After Horizon 3 Playground went to another level and are in a class all their own 💪🏿🇺🇸🔥🇺🇸🔥🇺🇸🔥👍🏿

[@johnmcshane4463]

the thing is with that kind of blind faith in reviews, a lot of them are made with incredibly short playtime, without understanding of the game and community, by people who may not play those types of games, and are possibly dependent on getting review copies from publishers, which requires a certain amount of kowtowing to appease and secure those copies in the future. not to mention, some of them straight up get paid off by publishers or are "strongly persuaded" especially since many publishers are starting to compensate their employees based on review scores.

[@fabianrokkenbauch5550]

Still play it very much, Have my own racing League with between 6-10 Regular runners

[@QBDLettuce]

Yea the game is still fun to play. It's far from perfect, but it's also not the "doom & gloom" some people claim it is. It's just a track racing game, and seems like some people expected arcade modes and things in it. 🤷‍♂

[@TheMostBanned]

The dirty secret is that every car is a boat and drives like it's on ice

[@gabor-toth]

This is one of the worst racing games ever made. The lighting is completely broken and has absolutely nothing in common with real life. The black upgrade screens look hideous as well. It's simply a broken mess with no real content.

[@rxshovxx]

Im afraid Microsoft will send someone after him for being a whistleblower

[@zodiac909]

I'm so glad that video from the ex dev is getting more recognition from big channels like this.

[@LG1ikLx]

This explains why the studios they own outside of the USA seems to release better games then the ones within the US.

[@michaelnight9162]

The game has improved significantly since launch, all that’s missing now are tracks. Even the graphics improved, it’s getting there

[@madcatsk]

You can definitely see that current game engine is different from the one we seen in first trailers..

[@dct124]

Layoffs help shareholders make more money. Essentially they force those who're still working to overwork replacing the efforts for those who've been let go. If you've ever worked at a job and felt like you were doing the work of 2, 3, 4 people. Congratulations you're the reason shareholders made profits. Very vicious cycle. All industries do it. So the only real way you can counteract this is to 1 become more than what you are today, 2 acquire assets, 3 invest in those same companies. Granted they do want to make a great game, but by no means get it twisted, they want to make money.

[@zodiac909]

Microsoft Cycling employees is no different than just starting over...ALL for the sake of avoiding paying benefits to employees. completely disgusting for a huge company, but at the same time not surprised.

[@lyomon9981]

Having devs that don’t understand car culture ? Or that they won’t let us have mod support.

[@senshi_dev_art]

So let me get this straigth. Theo is talking about an Exposed "Secret" from an Ex Dev from Forza that's been out for at least a few months now, more so in the entire INDUSTRY that as been known for a few years now, it's happened with Forza, EA, Ubisoft almost every big company as done this for years now, hell, 343, The devs who's sole purpose is making a Halo game as complained about it and the fact that Microsoft shots them in the foot every year. So no, it's not a secret, it's just people too ignorant to take some time to notice it and talk about it and slander the companies for doing so. So what are the actual news i wonder? I guess Motorsport as updated? It's improved? That is it? Have they fixed the piss poor handling nerf they apply on cars ahead?

[@nearlyabsolutelybonkers]

This is only one of many problems with Forza. Would love to see you talk about some of the points Sepi (SP4) made in his recent Forza video, because it's all pretty damning stuff against Turn 10/Microsoft and certain groups within the Forza community, and needs more attention.

[@yfi62dortoh]

I will say this. I really like and appreciate the simple main menu screen of forza 8 (idc that’s what I’m going to call it. They’re dumb for rebranding) because as an older forza fan, it reminds me of 3 & 4 and almost feels nostalgic to me. The menu in 6 was very busy, but it was functional. It also had traditional, calming “forza menu music.” The absolute maze of menu’s in 7 mixing with painful rock music and heavy hitting drums felt like a nightmare to me and really alienated me as a fan from the series. Not to mention the fact that, forza 7 was optimized for the Xbox one S/X consoles which meant my original Xbox one ran it like a laggy unplayable mess. They ruined tons of car sounds, one of my favorite being the RX-8. I won’t get into all that though. Opening Forza Motorsport (8) to a simple, empty main menu with calming “traditional forza menu music” really feels like a return to home for me as a fan. The rest however… needs work. The fact that they’re constantly getting rid of people shows that we’re just going to go down hill from here, because probably nobody from the original team is still there and it’ll go down a rabbit hole into Forza Unbound™️, the cartoon edition. We can only hope and pray Microsoft listens to the fans and we get something decent. Otherwise I’ll just have to load up FM4 on my 360!

[@SandmanKnowsWheel]

I will never understand how someone who plays and compliments need for speed unbound, could talk down on other racing games, Forza Motorsport surely isn’t perfect but compared to nfs it’s in a completely different league

[@gamernamedjacob]

Undound is an arcade game and a great one at that. Forza is simcade and way behind its competitors like GT7.

[@SandmanKnowsWheel]

@@gamernamedjacob unbound is shit, and only playable for 10 year olds, anyone whose driven a car, cannot play nfs

[@johnmcshane4463]

its funny that as soon as i bounced off of motorsport, i picked up ACC and iracing. They had better controller support. better controller support than a console game. the multiplayer is also better, as in they dont lie about having functioning matchmaking. they also dont have progression meant to block progress and force player retention. straight up, motorsport fails at everything it tried to do, nothing they could have done would have saved it, except for not releasing it and making a game people could actually enjoy. even the change in the upgrade system is a day late and a dollar short of where the game needs/ deserves to be, well more like 5 months late. lets hope they get the message that predatory forced player retention tactics are actually anti player retention.

[@ademozsoy945]

Needs more cars & tracks added. More bodykits & other stuff

[@yrrr4871]

I'm still suprised many people still play this game

[@SpeedySpecter]

I just feel like with this being one of the MAIN racing game titles out there, Xbox Game Studios would have put more effort into making it a finished product on release. You need good employees and you need enough of them to make a good game on this kind of scale. These contracts these employees are given aren’t the way to do that.

[@jwfpeters85]

Extreme dissepointment this game waited for years and after a few weeks then returnt to Sony an GT7

[@james8606]

I dont understand why they build upon what 7 did. Things like moving parts on the car ect was great but it definitely feels more like FM5 than what 6 and 7 was i hope they push on or say we meeded up here is our new game that has a direction and definitely get PG involved with getting the sim racing back on track.

[@averywebb1179]

At this point, I’ve already bought the game. They have my money, Im still going to play it. If I stop playing games that their companies have shady practices I just won’t have any games to play.

[@levinste2750]

guys, if I uninstall - reinstall the game, do I need to download again all the liveries I already have for my cars??

[@SNKYLAZYHOAR]

It’s a shame man, I used to love making liveries. started on FM2, booted up FM and the colors/textures/shading from what was supposed to be “all new”. It’s trash. I moved to GT7 and I won’t go back. T10 and Microsoft’s management over them is embarrassing. Even GT5 is visually more appealing than FM23.

[@Shabodonkey13]

This is an industry problem just not a Microsoft problem. Most employers contract to help make the games then let them go. This has been the norm for years.

[@heithyboi]

You're absolutely wrong about them maybe planning on mtx. Their plan was to keep people on gamepass engaged so they keep subscribing to gamepass and thus netting them way more money then the standard $70

[@DragonFlySlayer-wf6ne]

4:35 That's the world now man. The work force. Medical Benefits. money, law suits, licensing fees , contracts. $$$$$ For people who like this stuff from a sim factor of personal quality issue, to them it's about sales and their overhead . As long as they can get enough of that, we don't matter. It's in everything. Even McDonalds & Burger King. Department stores....etc.... employees could care a less.

[@DragonFlySlayer-wf6ne]

Welcome to pre WWIII

[@fungalspores2649]

Theres just no soul, you can tell GT has been made eith love and dedication not only to the car models, sounds, and tracks but also simple things like the menu layout and music. I still get nostaligic whenever i hear the race start noise, thats how you make a game. T10 really dropped the ball this time around and tbh i can see the game getting better with updates but by then itl be too little too late.

[@Nocturnalverse]

Fuck this game. I'm not going to level a car up like an RPG. Just let me earn money and buy shit like a normal racing game.

[@damienlee1165]

And this is why I stopped playing Forza and Halo cause the complacency runs deep over at Microsoft studios.

[@fransiscoh9450]

It just sounds like company’s try their best to maximize their profits. Gaming sucks now it’s just a cash grab just put Motorsport 4 next to this so called Motorsport and tell me which one was made by real car enthusiasts

[@potato_dbd]

When it says "GET CP" it really rubs me the wrong way.

[@fexbd]

My thoughts too

[@Tunda2]

I don’t have a problem with the contract work honestly. It would be nice if they renewed some people like footballers but honestly let them waste money

[@comradewyvern1150]

Absolutely greta video m8! God bless!

[@BabyMandingo]

The game feels incredible for a controller sim but I feel like the magic is missing from the story mode and multiplayer has too long of wait times for too short of races. Give us class racing in multiplayer as in 2-3 class choices a week, a penalty system that punishes the car causing impact and punishes you for going off track at all (the cuts are unreal that you can get away with), and finally for the love of god optimize half of your tracks forza. There are a few tracks that I can’t even run on low settings and ones like the nord I can play all day at max settings with 23 drivers.

[@MatthewNelsondbz]

I thought since from launch of game to March 28,2024, they never updated any car sounds and that shows for example on the 2016 Shelby Gt350r, the game audio for the exhaust is embarrassing, FH5 did a better job with sounds even though a lot of those cars are repetitive, but at least they got the sound of the Shelby gt350r

[@afterglowflux7455]

the career mode menu looks like older gran turismo games on ps2 lmao

[@KainsTorment]

Hi sorry to keep asking this but nobody has bothered to answer me. If I buy a second had copy of Gran Turismo Sport on the PS4 would I still be able to play it and win / buy every car?

[@Rich-qw4fm]

"Get CP"..... something about that doesn't seem right

[@CheslynEvo5]

Just imagine Theo making he's own car game, I'll love to play that game for sure 😅

[@ReboyGTR]

0:36 *Did you mean Payback?*

[@snuew]

I personally think Forza Motorsport should move towards being a Assetto Corsa rival, and leave the arcade to Horizon.

[@_xx_3691]

Comparing assetto corsa to Motorsport is like comparing Mario kart to iRacing, this game could be perfect to a tee and yall would still find something to complain about... buncha children

[@Retheraq]

150 mph on slicks in the wet? How arcade is this game?!

[@nicog4638]

Talking like you've driven 150mph with slicks and crashed

[@_shuddie]

when was that law put in place? could explain the state of video games as a whole

[@perseustww495]

the fact that i also got that astin martin on display lol

[@joshuaturner349]

Those in car water effects are so bad 😮‍💨

[@blackmario903]

The best water physics and weather system of any game remains to be of Driveclub, it holds up so well, even 10 years on.