FOSI ZA3 - NEUTERED!

Sadly FOSI has neutered the ZA3 balanced amplifier because they are focusing their marketing strategy around numbers, and not REAL WORLD USE!
The Scientific Audiophile exposes this truth in this video.
AudioScienceReview link to the ZA3 review:
www.audiosciencereview.com/fo...
Amplifier power calculator for your reference:
www.crownaudio.com/en-US/tool...

[@Grrrr3FKAGrrrrGrrrrGrrrr]

Is the low gain only an issue if it is used as an integrated amplifier? Because presumably, with it having only one input and a mono switch, a lot of buyers will be using one or two with a preamplifier. How much gain is there with the volume control turned right up? I recently went from a power amp with 30 dB gain to one with 20dB. I like how I'm now getting past 10 o'clock on the preamp's volume, but the output voltage of any source components I might buy in the future is now something I will have to consider (I won't be getting any 0.2mV phono cartridge). My new amp is class A, the excess heat is no bad thing most of the year here in the UK, however, I'm thinking of getting a class D amp (or monoblocks) for occasional use in the summer.

[@scientificaudiophile]

A preamp that can output between 4-5 volts would definitely make the v3 hit its output specs.

[@carlb86]

I listen to Amir's graphs, not music. That's because I'm a graphophile.

[@tonym8358]

I sold my Fosi V3, The Aiyima A07 max sound much better using Muses02 than sparkos ss3602 using 48v 5a power, and the Fosi V3 measure better than za3. I trust my ears rather than whatever is measured.

[@gurratell7326]

@@tonym8358 You mean your trust your bias ;) In the end what you're actually hearing might be a slight difference in frequency response due to the objectively slightly difference in load dependency of the Aiyima that you subjectively prefer. Nothing wrong with that, but you could get the same effect with a DSP anyways (something which every decent audiophile should have, fixing room modes etc).

[@bdbump]

For my near-field desktop, currently za3 mono blocks are driving my 6 ohm Jamo C91's and sound awesome with gobs of power thru a passive pre.. I did get the first run and a second run and they volume match, unsure if your speculation is true, certainly in Amir's case but I love mine. They take up hardly any space compared to cramming my vintage receivers onto my desk, lol..

[@scientificaudiophile]

Very nice!

[@Mizar-XED]

Living by measurements is leaving yourself open to disappointment. In many aspects of life...😒

[@maxvaly7747]

I have two ZA3( 48v 5A supply) and this have allot of useful power for my Spendor speakers, sound very good, too.

[@scientificaudiophile]

More than likely you received an earlier production unit, with the additional gain.

[@Mike47834]

I have a ZA3 that arrived on 1-5-2024 with the 48v PS. It is connected to a SMSL C100 DAC which is connected via USB to a computer and via coax to a Denon DVD 2910. The C100 is a lower end DAC, with a nice feature set, but I don't need a more expensive one for this system. IMO, it is more than capable of sending a decent output to the ZA3. I am using a pair of JBL L100t3 speakers. The ZA3 drives them far beyond the maximum level I typically see in normal use. Also, the sound quality is very good and well exceeded my expectations. In fact, I had to turn the ZA3's volume down to allow finer control over the sound level. I am not saying the ZA3 is as good as conventional amps, integrated amps or receivers. I will say that it delivers sound output and quality well above its price point and it will be all that many people who just want good, decent sound quality on a budget from their system will need. My experience is the same as many, many others who are using this amp. I am not referring to KZbin reviewers, etc. but average Joes posting in audio forums. Personally, I think judging the ZA3, or many of the newer budget class D amps, based on the advertised specs or sound level measurements are missing the point of these amps. They should be judged on how they perform in real world use cases for normal people. In this roll the ZA3 shines and provides sound quality well above its price point. The fact it has sold out three production runs, and is still in high demand, says a lot about its value and performance. This would not happen if the ZA3 was not a very good performer in real world situations.

[@Gadgetdad007]

@@scientificaudiophilethe colour of your rusty coloured jacket has definitely affected your brain. 😂

[@jimfarrell4635]

In my view the problem with the ZA3 is that using them as monoblocks doesn't substantially increase the power over using one in stereo. That is disappointing.

[@maxvaly7747]

Yes it is, maybe not on paper, but what I hear is music to my ears. Love this Fosi's better than my very expensive Mimas...@@jimfarrell4635

[@sk9592]

Erin released his review of the Fosi ZA3 today. It pretty much confirms everything you've been saying.

[@scientificaudiophile]

Thanks, I'll check out his video.

[@34332]

I was most impressed with the demo's from the VirtualHiFi guy on his Qualio iq speakers (ZA3 vs Naim). I bought 2 ZA3's, most likely the latest batch, but certainly no issues with gain or thin sounding (compared to my other system: Coda 8 pre- / poweramp and Focal Sopra 1s). 🤔

[@scientificaudiophile]

See my pinned comment. Thanks.

[@34332]

​@@scientificaudiophile On ASR they speak about series before and after a certain date and how to measure in- and output. I was one of the earlier adopters, however, the second one is recent and supposedly 'new stock' (after they run out). They measure the same, which makes it maybe more mysterious or did Amir get a prepped one.. 😅 Time will tell I suppose.

[@OldMeloman]

I don't understand why you say that Fosi V3 doesn't have enough power. Usually, I use it with a volume knob at 12 o'clock if I turn it in at 1 o'clock it's very loud. Need to add I use it with a 32V5A power supply.

[@scientificaudiophile]

Most likely you got the version with the additional gain, prior to Amir asking they removed the gain. It’s also possible FOSI lied to Amir and only sent him one that would do well in his tests, then, if anyone sent one in for testing, they can just say that person must have gotten an earlier version that was sitting in their distribution channel.

[@OldMeloman]

My version is older than the reviewed Amirm. I make a comparison with Aiyima 07MAX the same volume level. But before I bought it I took it for listening from my friend who bought it six months ago, that version was quietly then Aiyima 07MAX. Amirm on review has REV03 I have REV06.

[@Gadgetdad007]

@@scientificaudiophileyou need to change the jacket and also visit the dentist or by some Poly-Filler. 😂

[@jimfarrell4635]

​@@OldMeloman indeed, and Chris is talking about the ZA3. As far as I know the V3 (which I also have) hasn't been tampered with by Amir's mind control device, which he uses to gain supremacy over the entire Chinese electronics business. I like the V3. For its price it is excellent, though I also appreciate Chris's argument about value compared to a budget receiver. Though a receiver takes up a large chunk of desktop.

[@OldMeloman]

@jimfarrell4635 I replaced Op amps for OPA2604 its a perfect for V3 Use with floor stand speakers that tinny amp )

[@AlexMitchell-sj4sb]

Is that cat ok? Just stares ahead into space.

[@scientificaudiophile]

Cat is fine. Usually just so messed up on LSD he stares a lot.

[@AlexMitchell-sj4sb]

@@scientificaudiophile not catnip then? Something a bit stronger. Does he like the Fosi amp though?

[@scientificaudiophile]

@@AlexMitchell-sj4sb My cat like nothing that comes in a can. So far my cat does not like anything I've ever tested, except for speakers.

[@steven2809]

That cat has been stuffed...it's deceased! 😂

[@mrpeterfromgodknowswhere]

@@steven2809 It's bereft of life, it rests in peace, it has ceased to be, it's an ex-cat.

[@MrSabiso]

My 4ohm marantz amp broke for the second time. Knowing the costs to repair the ano, i decided to buy a za3. Just to be able to listen to music while saving money to buy a Yamaha pm11. What a surprise with the za3. They sound better then my Marantz. I m using a wiim pro plus at highest volume and the za3 at 9 o clock volume. My speakers are the Acoustic Research AR-3A improved. Big smile over here and second za3 is orderd.

[@pbloemer]

Because they come very cheap, I have tried two of them wit my AE520 Floorstanding Speakers. The sound was bad, lost every detail and sounded chaotic. They are back in the box for sale.

[@blownouttransmission5832]

Use a pre amp that has enough output power to drive the fosi to clip , I have yet to see any of the youtube talking heads mention that the fosi is at 10% thd at full power . Using any of the pre amps I have at hand , I can take the spl to uncomfortable levels that I would never listen at , and with art stiletto 6 speakers 86db@1w rated and are true 8 ohm benign load , The za3 is less than £110 and its sound quality is exceptional , big 3d sound that's very well balanced . These latest 3255 chip amps are the first class D amps I have actually enjoyed . If they are not sensitive enough regards input gain , use a pre amp or get another amp. If you want to really feel the fosi , get it on 95db speakers , that tiny amp will pin you to the wall . 😘

[@scientificaudiophile]

Agreed but not many people trying to save every penny are going to add a preamp to the mix.

[@tonym8358]

Fosi took 3 months to send this amp to AMiR so like you said manipulate the expectation and the sales, Aiyima send the 07 Max before they were selling so was grilled. I sold the Fosi V3 ...I like the Aiyima07 Max with muses 02 rather than Sparkos labs SS3602. Aiyima07 Max is coming with 63v capacitors and have more parts inside than the other 2 from Fosi and the power supply is coming with ferrite.

[@scientificaudiophile]

Yes, the A07 Max is my preferred low cost desktop amp.

[@nicksparey9506]

And there you are calling a product you haven't even heard "Anaemic" less wine 🍷 might equally better ears ....

[@scientificaudiophile]

I don't have to hear a product that is based on a previous product that was anemic, that users complained about, the company fixed, then the measurements were crap, so they went back to the anemic performance. But if they have the balls to send me one, I will test it.

[@nicksparey9506]

@@scientificaudiophile 😁

[@cbayardelle]

audio science reviewed the amp, they measured 161 watts in 4ohms & 191 watts headroom with the 48v power supply , I’m using a speaker that drops to 3 ohms, & the volume is extremely loud in a large room.

[@scientificaudiophile]

Really, ASR reviewed the amp? I had no idea. You probably got a unit that didn’t have the gain reduced.

[@impuls60]

If one reads the TPA3255 datasheet the chip comes with an adjustable CURRENT LIMIT. This can be set way lower than max current rating all refers too. I guess manufacturer set the current limit low because of inadequate cooling or psu limitations. I watched Erin's review and was quite disappointed with the 4 ohms test. I have that chip on a diy board from 3e Audio with no nutered current limit and they are quite powerful at 48V. I have about 6x the cooling with a massive alu bracket connecting the chip to a wall of heatsink. This amp doesnt even have a fan and no ribs.. Another source of bad sound is a stressed out dac running close to clipping. I have a feeling that the dissapointed customers are maxing out their source. I suggest getting a modern dac with much higher voltage out. Higher signal out will give more resistance to noise and hum. Modern dacs have become so much better and cheaper the last years..But dont expect a ton of 2. harmonic to bass fill your room with too small speakers most ppl have.

[@darrinfyfe7728]

Thanks for keeping it real

[@niccster1061]

Any desktop amps that you DO recommend?

[@scientificaudiophile]

Aiyima A07 Max kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZbSqGtmqqyAg7csi=tgntLq3o2FnZjh0f

[@9XThunder]

Fosi is much better than the aiyima​@@scientificaudiophile

[@9XThunder]

​@@scientificaudiophilefosi za3 is much beter then the aiyima !

[@jazzabana]

Well, here is my 2 cents. I have had aiyima t9, fosi v3 (for a brief moment), aiyima a08 and smsl vmv a1. I think t9 and v3 are in the same tier although v3 is more powerful. I think t9 had a more enjoyable sound due to distortion tubes were creating. I also tube rolled and sound signature changed for something else. Aiyima a08 was better and more powerful than the 2 forementioned amps in every aspect but with an aftermarket power cable. The cable that it comes with was crap. And smsl vmv a1, if a08 was a tier above the v3 than a1 is 3 tiers above the a08. I have to admit that vmv a1 is low powerwise but comes with a quality power cable and it sounds good enough for a nitpicking audiophile that I am. All my experimentation I never used the onboard dacs and bluetooth since I was testing forntheir limits. My main amp is yamaha 2100 btw. which I would consider another 3 tiers up on top of vmv a1. I was still curious what I would get if I would get 2 za3s, but I think I won't bother, I wouldn't think I would be happy with the sound quality.

[@ItsElvis56]

Erin's Audio also found issues with this amp. Got to give the curious customer all the truthful info before making an informed decision.

[@scientificaudiophile]

Yes, I just saw that video yesterday. Multi tone dropped watts, which is why I do the pink noise test. I'll try to measure watts for the next amp I review.

[@LongBlackLimousine]

Ive got 2 and use them as mono amps. Crazy power. Never go above 11 o clock.

[@scientificaudiophile]

Most likely you got the version with the additional gain, prior to Amir asking they removed the gain. It’s also possible FOSI lied to Amir and only sent him one that would do well in his tests, then, if anyone sent one in for testing, they can just say that person must have gotten an earlier version that was sitting in their distribution channel.

[@jimfarrell4635]

Damn, they are cunning devils. Or perhaps Helmholtz has become cynical in his old age. My cat, Kipper, is 12 and does nothing but watch Fox news on TV and David Icke on KZbin. He won't eat tuna anymore because he thinks fish have joined the Illuminati and were behind the financial crisis of 2008.

[@Gadgetdad007]

@@scientificaudiophileyou are a crazy poo 💩 stirrer 😂

[@lisar3944]

@@scientificaudiophile I got one on Thursday and the gain is so high I almost hurt myself when I turned up the volume on first listen. Turning the dial a hair above 0 was just about right for my room. I've since attenuated output on my dac so I have some reasonable volume control, but the point is: the gain was completely unexpected and a bit silly, to be honest. And as I said I got it on Thursday, shipped from new stock in the EU, not stock from the first production round. And it sounds fine. Nothing mind blowing or even particularly special, but no complaints either. It is not thin sounding at all - to the contrary it's a bit heavier, especially through the lower-mids , than I am accustomed to or even might prefer. Need to spend more time with it before I decide if I actually want to use it regularly or only on the side,, but I find nothing glaringly wrong with it (which is a departure - even with much more expensive amps I often find something about them that I really dislike strongly, usually it's obnoxious/shrill highs, but varies). I find nothing to hate with the ZA3 so far. I have no idea what has been said about this amp on ASR and honestly could not care less.

[@WarriorProphet]

They (fosi) finally released a 48 volt 10 amp GaN powersupply for this thing and the upcoming V3 mono, wonder if they'll send you one to re-review at full POWA?

[@scientificaudiophile]

Maybe. Unlike other companies that aren't happy with my negative reactions, FOSI has really stepped up to the plate and continued to send me products.

[@WarriorProphet]

@@scientificaudiophile I feel they are geniunely responsive to their customers needs/asks, much moreso and most Chi-Fi anyhow.

[@WarriorProphet]

The one disapointing thing though is they also have a 5a 48v version and its the default bundle on amazon now with no other options, even though the 10a is also on amazon, though its the same price as a bare ZA3 with no adaptor included..

[@scientificaudiophile]

If you already own a ZA3, and possibly own one in the future, and you say it is VERY powerful, I just want to put this out there: You most likely received the version with the additional gain, prior to Amir asking they remove the gain. It’s also possible FOSI lied to Amir and only sent him one that would do well in his tests, then, if anyone sent one in for testing, they can just say that person must have gotten an earlier version that was sitting in their distribution channel. JMO.

[@jimfarrell4635]

Damn, they are cunning devils. Or perhaps Helmholtz has become cynical in his old age. My cat, Kipper, is 12 and does nothing but watch Fox news on TV and David Icke on KZbin. He won't eat tuna anymore because he thinks fish have joined the Illuminati and were behind the financial crisis of 2008. Also, weirdly, I thought I already posted this but the inscrutable fish conspiracy deleted it.

[@albe1796]

Reviewer stated: "Sorry, I never actually had the ZA3. My video was solely based on the information from the ASR review." Lolwut!?!

[@RyanChoo]

I love that everyone has a different opinion on the ZA3! I bought 2 of them and they are shipping from China. These are my first Class D amps and will run as monoblocks to drive my 20 year old B&W DM 602 bookshelf & 603 floorstanding speakers. I would like to listen out for myself what exactly is Class D sound compared to my Audiolab 8000S Class AB and a new Musical Paradise MP-301 mk III tube amplifier with 6L6GC NOS tubes.

[@Bob.martens]

I tend to like coloured speakers.

[@wric01]

Maybe not produce the crazy watts like all 1k plus amplifiers do, they do produce enough to satisfy audiophile demands of hi mids and lows that most want at satisfying levels on my Magnepan LRS+. You want overkill then pay the overkill price demands of other amps. I have a Ultra starkrimsom GAN 500 watt 2.5 k amp, so i know what i'm talking about as za3 duo mono it's 95+% there at normal 90 db max levels. As far as hearing ability, i have a young man's hearing as measured by samsung smartphone customed profile alignment software.

[@robsandler1818]

So I never look at the measurements, but trust my ears. And I own a ZA3 and decided to test with my Dahlquist DQ-10s (highly inefficient 8 ohm Speakers ~86db) and to my surprise, I was able to drive them to 95db with the volume knob at 85% on the ZA3 and 75% on my Freya +. So. not really sure what you're communicating here is truth? I was so impressed, that I pre-ordered a 2nd one so I can run them as mono blocks. I have also tried the ZA3 with my Elac ELAC Uni-Fi 2.0 UB52. Input Sources were Turntables, and CD Players all of which I measured at over 95db with similar settings. So not really sure why you are experiencing different results? I have attempted to power these same speakers with my recently refurbished (by McIntosh) McIntosh 225 and the ZA3 sustains louder volumes with less distortion. This was an experiment for me that surprised the **** out of me.

[@scientificaudiophile]

There are two possibilities. One, see my pinned post about getting an early unit that has the additional gain. 2nd, were you driving pink noise or just music? Full spectrum sound eats these digital amps up. Whatever I’m communicating is the same thing customers were saying making FOSI change the gain.

[@robsandler1818]

@@scientificaudiophile I don't really listen to pink noise on a regular basis so not sure why anyone would care how the unit performs with pink noise, but I am not a scientist. All I care about is how the divers music that I listen to sounds on the ZA3. Could it possibly be the pre-amp you are using? Did you try a variety of Pre-Amps?

[@robsandler1818]

On additional but important piece of information is that I did replace the Op Amps with SparkOs 3602s. Perhaps that accounts for the difference.

[@user-ml4xh9fh7q]

This guy is a jackass. It's always drama, not just this a lot of his videos are him complaining about other reviewers. @@robsandler1818

[@mrpeterfromgodknowswhere]

Whay kind of music was that? I bet it was "girl and guitar" with purely 500-6000 Hz content. Try again with something that covers more frequency range and report back.

[@jorgenudvang3507]

While I found this video somewhat interesting, it's more damning than instructive. I own a ZA3, and I use it to drive a couple of old Technics SB-CA1060 3-way speakers (yes, they are 30 years old) that are very "musical" but rather hard to drive. I believe part of my success with this amplifier lies in the fact that I us an SMSL M300 SE DAC that outputs 4.0Vrms through the balanced XLR output. The use of cheap components require some basic knowledge. Using a class D amp was a deliberate choice from my side, since it improves the rather laid back treble of the Technics speakers.

[@san616mofo]

It seems to me that whoever fosi audio releases into the world, this person will be smearing their products with dirt. It seems like someone was offended or didn't get their share of money. In one of their videos, the author praises the 'aiyima a07 max,' saying it's the 'best value for money,' but complains about the fosi audio v3 and za3, which in my opinion are clones of the a07 in a different package. This is despite the fact that the a07 is smaller in size and without gaps, so theoretically it should heat up more. I'm not a fan of either camp; it's just that after watching all the videos from this author, this is the only opinion I've formed.

[@iamamadman6542]

A question about the channel banner: I totally agree about "touch of class", but I'm not sure about "humor"? I take the subject very seriously ("it's not a hobby!")

[@scientificaudiophile]

Agreed, definitely not a hobby. There is no humor in my channel, the banner was created by my manager - consider him fired. Unfortunately I don’t know how to make a new banner, so the current one will have to stay until I figure it out.

[@iamamadman6542]

​@@scientificaudiophile Well done! There have been managers fired for far more trivial reasons.

[@raulmartin2197]

Hater! Who is paying you????

[@DPSingh-px4xu]

Personally I prefer my watts to come from countries that refuse to compete in the Olympics and can't be measured only heard.....

[@nodnox]

Please remove the horrid buzzing sound that is prevalent in your videos, they are ruined by this.

[@EricRosenfield]

There’s a distracting hum on the audio in this video

[@scientificaudiophile]

yes. My latest video deals with this.

[@ztanizlaf]

Two ZA3s in mono mode easily rock my Magnepan LRS+, which is not an easy load. P.S. Man, at least buy a simple cheap microphone, it’s impossible to listen to you

[@scientificaudiophile]

You obviously didn’t get the neutered ZA3’s. Also, I just picked up a Rode lavalier mic. We’ll see how that works. Thanks.

[@robsandler1818]

I agree with you. This guy is a complete fool and knows nothing about audio. Not sure what his qualifications are? I also have and Mac 225 that was just brought up to Spec by McIntosh and the ZA3 sounds better to me and my listening friends

[@jimfarrell4635]

SA. Can I ask if you are deleting my comments? I've posted twice and they are not showing up on my phone. No problem. You are entitled to (though they were both incisive and subtly hilarious). ×I just wanted to know if there was a problem at my end (apart from me being a wise-ass idiot, which is too late to change).

[@scientificaudiophile]

No, I don’t delete comments. Not sure what the issue is.

[@jimfarrell4635]

Thanks. It's a bit odd. I guess I need to switch something off then back on again.

[@jimfarrell4635]

Of course, given that you replied to my comment about deleting comments, whatever it was is now sorted.

[@Mike47834]

My comment was deleted. It was there initially and was not there a day later.

[@lisar3944]

@@Mike47834 mine too. content was that I just received one with the new run in February and there is definitely no gain "problem" on my unit. In fact I almost hurt my speakers when I started to turn it up (from zero) as moving it just a hair put it at almost normal listening volume. Had to attenuate my dac to get a reasonable volume range on the pot, and I don't think I've had it above 9:00 yet. Let's see if this one sticks.

[@simonupstone4924]

True words Scientific Audiophile. I’m off to listen to pipe organ through my Arcam dual amp system. See ya, Fosi wimps.

[@karlos543]

Err what?

[@chrislj2890]

Good grief, I can't concentrate on what you are saying with that freakin' cat giving me the evil eye.

[@billsmith8225]

I purchased the fosi ZA3 while my HK vintage integrated amp was being repaired. My first class D amp. Extremely disappointed. Barley could drive my 6ohm polk audio speakers. I had to turn the amp to maximum volume to get any decent sound levels. The sound compared to my HK and Yamaha AS801 pales in comparison. ZA3 sound is thin lacking definition in the mid tones and bass. While the sound is extremely clean it eventually creates way too much listening fatigue. I finally used a yamaha equalizer to boost the volume and try to somehow get a better sound stage. In the end it didn’t come close to my AB amps in both sound and power.

[@svtcontour]

You're clearly doing something wrong my friend.

[@scientificaudiophile]

You spelled "right" incorrectly.

[@svtcontour]

@@scientificaudiophile Probably all the buzz and noise in your video got to you and you're seeing things.

[@Jamy4ya]

ASR shouldn't exist on the internet. Or it should be banned completely. 'Audiogears for testing only and not for listening" B.S.

[@stanmyers5994]

Chris, glad to see someone exposing this chifi junk, keep up the good work. If you cant afford an amp above 500 dollars your in the wrong hobby

[@Gadgetdad007]

I have a very expensive amp and i also purchased the ZA3 so zip it Stanley Cryers😂 The ZA3 is a really great sounding amp.

[@scientificaudiophile]

If it lasts. Overheating that chip too much and it may stop working or distort.

[@rodplanet5901]

Really? Hobby has specific price?

[@scientificaudiophile]

Audio is not a hobby, except for the people who don't take it seriously.

[@geevee1045]

Mine doesn't get very warm at all, even hooked up to nasty loads like a Maggie LRS+ or KEF LS50 META. I think their heatsink works well. However I agree with you about the low gain. With these speakers the volume control is usually at 2 or 3 o'clock. Do you know what the version number was on your Za3? Or do you know what the version number was when the gain was reduced. Thanks and keep up the thought provoking ideas.@@scientificaudiophile

[@shaolin95]

2:23 wow talk about ego man. You think you are above everyone else? Grow up. Thumbs down

[@scientificaudiophile]

I don’t think I’m above everyone else. Like a true audiophile I know I am.