FPS Games: What is BLOOM?

[@THELYRICALTMAN]

This has to be the best breakdown of bloom I've ever watched. Great job Fallout.

[@epicgamerzfail4575]

Fallout: "What is bloom" Me: "Cancer but in rng-form" Edit: 10:33 fun fact, in super smash bros brawl (ya might of heard of it), there was a mechanic where if you move around too quickly, there's a small chance your character will randomly trip and fall. Like bloom, it's purpose was to slow down the game and punish overly aggressive players by introducing a random chance to be vulnerable. And just like bloom, it angered the entire smash bros community and was one of the things that killed off competitive brawl.

[@dominator-tc8ik]

This. So much of this. I understand Sakurai really wanted Brawl to veer away from the ultra competitive community that Melee spawned, but tripping was so unanimously loathed the community went out of their way to mod Brawl (Project M), and fix everything themselves.

[@jasoninkurai5463]

And eventually, he went back and made Smash 4 and Ultimate as more of balanced mix between Brawl's casual fun and Melee's competitive market

[@boyishdude1234]

Exceeeept, "bloom" (aka bullet spread) is something that you can control by pacing your shots, whereas you had zero control over whether or not you randomly tripped in Brawl. The two are not the same...

[@ivandarmawan9372]

"The more RNG gets introduced into a PvP game, the less competitive it becomes" Battle Royale games : Hold my beer

[@epicgamerzfail4575]

Br games are a lot like card games; yeah, it's rng, but it's a type of rng you can handle and react to. They're a lot slower pace than an fps, so if you get say a bad hand or a bad landing spot, you can play around that vs. in destiny if rng screws you over on your 150 handcannon on your third shot, you have very little time to do something about it.

[@theheir7264]

Brs ARE struggling in competitive. Fortnite is surviving because it's fun to watch and super popular even though it's not as skill based as some others.

[@a4arick106]

Battle Royale is competitive?

[@Sticiboi]

@@theheir7264 This didn't age well

[@GlennElliottKeller]

The less skillful the player is allowed to be.* Bloom nerfs the player’s ability to hone their own aiming skill. If they want to penalize players for spamming bullets, make fire rates lower or adjust damage.

[@uss_04]

Bloom: A planetary Material only found on Venus, not seen since the Age of Triumph

[@dbkwk9278]

Oh my god.

[@adarkwind4712]

🤣 nice

[@morganpriest7726]

Yikes

[@xxora6568]

Bloom : the bane of my life

[@nottr1llix465]

really tho 😂

[@GodofWarChuka]

You got a message from Gingernut151.

[@iinvasiian944]

What is bloom? don't hurt me don't hurt me no more

[@magmamooblade]

It's "Baby don't hurt me." The first time.

[@blackandbluedress8500]

How dare you....

[@nikitalutov9536]

Thanks for making this video very informative and rich of visual examples. Such a comprehensive approach is what helps players unfamiliar with the mechanics get to know about reasons for major arguments being brought up in the game communities, especially in the Destiny one.

[@SplinterTheTherian]

This was a well articulated and appropriate video considering the current bloom argument out there right now. Thank you

[@ashleebeck5924]

I can answer your question. It's the antithesis of my being🙃

[@bster3168]

"Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth bloom the inconsistent?" *intense silence* "I thought not, it's not a story the dev's would tell you"

[@yittheyak8402]

lmao

[@marvinracer88]

this is gold

[@alexanderstilianov]

The "asthma attack" comparison brought back memories from Super Smash Bros. Brawl's random tripping mechanic.

[@XxMaxwellxX01]

Dude, nice visuals, literally best vid I've seen on this. For any game

[@UtherShett]

Bloom is one of the worst game mechanics of all time. Punishing players for being good is just pathetic

[@madman_24]

I believe another reason for it to exist is to stop noobs from getting easy kills by simply spraying bullets in the general direction of the enemy without trying to aim precisely.

[@UtherShett]

madman_24 that might just be the worst arguments for bloom I’ve ever hear. If the noob is spraying randomly and getting kills bloom has nothing to do with that, that’s just luck. If he’s spraying randomly how tf is bloom going to stop his shots from hitting? It could even make his shot hit even if he misses.

[@madman_24]

If your shots are spread more randomly due to high rate of fire, the chances of you hitting the target are even lower. But bloom is an issue only on platforms which have games that inherit automatic target tracking (auto-aim) anyway.

[@UtherShett]

madman_24 bloom is an issue no matter what. How is ok when 2 people with Not Forgotten get 2 head shots at the same time, but when they both take their third shot one guy get unlucky and his shot doesn’t go where he’s pointing, but the other guy’s does? That problem completely out ways the non-existent pros of a noob sometimes missing a shot he deserved to hit

[@GodofWarChuka]

Dragonblood811 Bloom doesn’t affect LH, NF or Service Revolver. Any 180 HC. So that’s good at least.

[@m1bl4n]

I always though of bloom being some kind of lighting thingy, until I *tried* halo on pc and saw a video about guys complaining about bloom in general. Thank you

[@zordoz2878]

I definitely think Destiny in particular needs to at least reduce bloom. The usability gap between 180 and the other handcannon types highlights the issue perfectly. This is strictly for console.

[@Fanaan3741]

We always blame bloom, but I honestly don't think bloom is the issue, and I'm at a loss as to why people think it is. We know for a fact that aim assist and bullet magnetism is rather high in Destiny. Meaning if i aim my circle at someones head, regardless of the bloom, bullet magnetism and aim assist are going to kick in and auto correct bloom. Which honestly explains why this video was done in Halo rather than Destiny. Meaning we love those 180's due to their recoil, and AA/BM. If I'm wrong about this please explain how so, rather than just bashing it.

[@zordoz2878]

@@Fanaan3741 I'm sorry but when you have your reticle on someone's face and pull the trigger but somehow miss then what is happening there??? Where is the amazing bullet magnetism you are talking about. I understand that aim assist is relatively high and I know there is some bullet magnetism but it does not correct bloom. Bloom is completely RNG on where the bullet falls within the extended reticle. Bullet magnetism only works if you are like a fraction off of hitting the target not if your bullet just flat out flies away into lala land.

[@billygames7107]

Joe Fenpool we want to spam shots and we want the bullets to hit where we aimed. Pretty simple really.

[@zordoz2878]

@@billygames7107 I don't want to spam shots but really you can fire a 180 as fast as it is supposed to be fired and land every shot. Other handcannons you have to "pace" your shots to maybe hit most of them

[@thecapuchin]

Good stuff, Fallout. Thanks for taking the time to explain this stuff.

[@Guoy]

So bloom is introduced so people would pace their shots and not spam the trigger. Yet, what's the point of rounds per minute? If you would fire you Better Devils at exactly 140 RPM, there should hardly be any bloom. And it wouldn't be possible to fire it faster than 140 RPM... Yet, even if you fire it at 140 RPM there is a lot of bloom (on console). So I should fire it slower than 140 RPM to get no bloom... :S But then I also up the TTK. Bloom is a dumb mechanic.

[@Jon-is4ep]

This is why I use 110HCs, I dont need to lower rate of fire, and I can 1 head 2 body

[@ShadowNemesis575]

Exactly. Its ridiculous

[@HibiscusOrchid]

Exactly what I was thinking, u put a hard rpm cap but also a soft rpm cap as well? Might as well reduce the rpm and don't handicap it any further. If you want bloom, you should have no rpm to begin with.

[@equinox9871]

What is bloom? A mistake. Such a mistake

[@yurpcrusher123]

I literally was about to post the same comment, with " bad idea " as the answer. Lol

[@gregtagaras3314]

Wrong. If shooters didnt have spread, the game would be incredibly boring and actually less skill based. If spread wasnt used, magdumping would become the only viable strat and devs would have to discourage spread with either high amounts of HREC, damage dropoff or both.

[@AntzolY111]

Halo Reach

[@a4arick106]

@@gregtagaras3314 doom, quake, unreal tournament. almost all arena Shooter didn't have bloom nor spread or even recoil at all. and you thought those games aren't skill-based?

[@gregtagaras3314]

@@a4arick106 those are arena shooters with rocket launchers, lightning guns and high skullcap in the movement

[@mikeykeeney494]

Alternative title: BLOOM why it sucks

[@watsyurdeal]

Bloom is only a good mechanic for hipfire, and even then you need well defined variables and rules to make it work. When aiming down sights, in most games you sacrifice mobility and field of view for a more accurate shot, so there's no reason to punish the player further. Bloom should serve as a means to keep engagements in close range, while mid and long fights are given more diversity by forcing the player to fire in bursts or pace their shots. And this is only because damage fall off often is not enough to compensate for the lack of accuracy. If for example, it took 10 headshots with a 450 auto rifle to kill someone at a distance, the player with better skill and aim can still win because for the other player it becomes a battle of math, it goes from 10 shots to 12-15 because they missed some. Bloom is a mechanic added to handicap players a bit, but only just that bit. It should not be so much so that it makes a gun arguably terrible for most if not all situations.

[@arthysia7757]

This ^

[@Krowno_]

I didn’t even know what Bloom was until this. Thank you for this simple, great breakdown!! Also, I love the editing! Great visuals!

[@ItsIntelligentDesign]

Good video, but I think you’re missing a key point about why people don’t talk about bloom in Halo:CE. And that’s because the game doesn’t present that information upfront to the player. Reach shows you bloom explicitly by expanding your reticle as you fire. Destiny does the same. But because the reticle in CE remains static many players wouldn’t notice - the truth is that the majority of players don’t care if bloom exists or not. They complain because they hear more vocal high level players complain, but back when CE released games were not nearly as heavily scrutinized as they are now, nor were there many preconceived notions about what mechanics are good or bad in FPSs

[@samvanderhoeven7814]

Ah this is so helpful. Thank you for a good level-headed definition!

[@Matt_PunchEnthusiast_Morris]

What is bloom? The worst thing Bungo ever implemented into their game's, Really good video my dude 👍

[@TheLegendaryLegacy]

Zerotron 123 What is bloom? Something that simulates how actual firearms work

[@Matt_PunchEnthusiast_Morris]

@@TheLegendaryLegacy it is a game my dude, I don't play it for realism

[@FromACrabsPOVFishFIy]

@@TheLegendaryLegacy yea i get what your saying but in a game like destiny? Put bloom in a realistic game. Especially since D2 is capped at 30fps

[@shariquenguyen4945]

@@TheLegendaryLegacy destiny doesn't need it tho. You think magic and space wizards and undead gods is reality? If so get some help brother

[@dillonshort5455]

Zerotron 123 “their games*”

[@IxTON1CxI]

Great video as always! You hit the nail on the head at the 10:50 mark. The devs fear it, but the most accurate players SHOULD be running rampant in the lobby and taking over the game. They’ve put in the time and practice. Bloom is a bad mechanic and a poor alternative to proper skill-based matchmaking in competitive game modes. Imagine being in a men’s rec basketball league and the rim randomly moves side to side to prevent good shooters from taking over the game. That’s what bloom is in an FPS. It also baffles me that bloom in D2 is atrocious on console and nearly non-existent on PC.

[@bubbled5630]

Don't think bloom is a bad mechanic but definitely can be when implemented incorrectly, I think it would help to reduce this on the 110, 140 and 150 hand cannons but I also think a recoil reduction is in order to encourage use of these archetypes, personally I use a lot of Duke and ace I wouldn't really touch other hand cannons of those archetypes (110,140 and 150) last word is also very good but doesn't fall into said archetypes, I'm also of the opinion flinch especially side on flinch needs a rework. I also think NF will continue to be relevant after the nerf (yes I did work to get it but get no enjoyment using it on people in qp that don't stand a chance it's just boring) I know how people feel when it comes to this because I stopped playing destiny 1 PvP when last word and thorn where at there peaks I feel like NF is just a repeat of this.

[@PlanetEntity]

Crazy that it seems like no one understands this, a lot like the NF nerfs and the whisper nerfs. Community rages because they want the game to be easy until Datto or some shit makes a vid explaining why bungo was right in the first place, it's tiring.

[@showerh]

What is bloom? Baby can't hit me Can't hit me No more

[@rodrigoramos2583]

Fallout explaining things with a sick voice is now my now asmr religion.

[@ryanbradford6227]

Thank you for your clear and concise explanation of what bloom is you didn’t go into a bunch of useless and unnecessary details you said this is bloom here is an example and now I know what bloom is thank you

[@joerellm]

Explain Why Im getting hit around corners and behind cover?! That’s the true mystery

[@bubbled5630]

30hz servers and ptp hosting

[@DeceivingHeart]

Yup. What Chief just said. The tick and frame rate along with P2P networking makes the Crucible a nightmare sometimes. That and wonky hit boxes on weapons and guardians.

[@toxik_bucket]

Bruh that face at 2:49. Up in the sky

[@Revenantguardian]

Excellent video Fallout. As you alluded to I believe it ultimately comes down to skill-gap compression. Bloom is ultimately just another tool in the toolbox designed to help level the playing field between high-skill players and low-skill players. Personally, I despise it a great deal. However, it's not the only mechanic they use to compress the skill gap. Remember vanilla D2 PvP at launch? 4v4-only, small maps, slower TTK, reinforcing a 'teamshot' meta, weak weapons, weak melees, grenades, abilities and supers as well as SLOW recharge rates on top of all that. In-air accuracy is a great example I like to point out. Bungie specifically reduced in-air accuracy in D2 because they didn't want high-skill players taking full advantage of enhanced movement abilities and vertical space which sounds good in theory until you realize HOW mobile Destiny truly is. Players can walk, run, crouch, strafe, slide, jump, double-jump, dodge, teleport, glide and hover. Yet the mechanics (to a certain degree), at play actively punish players for utilizing these enhanced movement abilities in conjunction with the vertical space within the PvP maps. The Icarus mod obviously mitigates this issue to a certain extent but I believe it's basically a "band-aid on a bullet wound" solution since as a whole it's a larger systemic issue within the game's mechanics. That said, I don't think 100% in-air accuracy would be the correct nor the appropriate solution for a number of different reasons. It's a balancing act, for lack of better words. They need to cater to a wide audience of incredibly varying skills, but vanilla D2 clearly swung the pendulum too far in the other direction as evidenced by the fact Forsaken reverted so many fundamental changes. They need to protect low-skill players I understand that however, as stated above I think they went too far. Bloom is a symptom of a MUCH larger issue. As Shaxx frequently says "I think there's a love of the fight in you Guardian", he's absolutely right. I enjoy a good fight, I just want it to be FAIR. I don't want gun battles decided by random chance.

[@josephrichardson9559]

After watching this I have had to rethink the way I use the last word 😅 Cheers for the video Fallout always learn useful stuff on your channel

[@jeetbajal8449]

Last word is meant to be spammed fast to kill shotgunners who rush you. Its fine given the range trade off

[@jhermannitj]

Great vid... one point of contention 8:44; there's no bloom in real life - I would consider myself a decent marksman with a wide variety of firearms. Pacing your shot in real life in most instances is about the recoil of the weapon and in some high rate of fire semi-automatics and most fully automatic weapons - overheating. I think the solution is adjust recoil (increase/decrease) and remove bloom in favor of an overheating mechanic that would force you to pace your shots or stow and switch weapons to wait out the timer.

[@ThunderlipsJoeYT]

100% agree that bloom and recoil at times get interchangable. Even in the vid, when he did the spam shots, most everything stayed in the reticle he just didn't correct for recoil. But recoil and an overheating mechanic would be kinda cool to experiment with. It's in some games, and super frustrating. But if the solutions were both stow or shot pacing it would lead to some really cool load out meta changes. Though what I think might happen over time is anything with punishing overheat would just stop being used vs guns with less

[@ryanstassel4246]

Triplewreck went over this topic almost 3 years ago but not nearly as in depth as you did. Good video man

[@Lolbsterbiscuit]

It’s worth mentioning that bloom was also implemented on hand cannons as a way to corral range, giving a much stricter, more punishing optimal range. As soon as you start shooting outside of the intended optimal range, your initial accuracy come, and bloom if not controlled properly, will force missed shots, and that will TANK your time to kill way more than any range drop off will. To be honest I’m in the pro-bloom camp. Hand cannons are the highest range weapons that have near perfect in air accuracy, suffer very little flinch, and generally have better responsive movement when ADS. They’re peak shot kings, hit hard, and have, imo, one of the highest skill ceilings in the game. Without bloom, you would ONLY see handcannons in the meta, as you should. They provide so much, and without bloom, have very few drawbacks that go unable to be mitigated

[@chaosonreach6434]

This is why i like the Mos Ultima ll. Its so consistant and has a very minute amount of recoil that it feels really good

[@Brofessional_]

as unpopular as this will be...I think bloom belongs in certain games. There are games that are literally trying to be as realistic and life-like as possible. In those cases there should be some kind of downside to shooting a hand gun as fast as possible (which in real life would have a ton of recoil and keep you from landing accurate shots) HOWEVER, in Destiny I think it should be draaaaaaastically minimized since the guardians shooting these weapons are super soldiers and can shoot lightning from their fingers and can shoulder charge monsters to death. I think they should be able to handle the recoil of a hand canon just fine...IMO

[@iamforever405]

Matt has your dad ever told you that he hates you?

[@Brofessional_]

iAmForever Dad??

[@jjbfour]

Fallout always has the best breakdown videos I've watched

[@christian7200]

Here after seeing so many people talk about this in BF2042. Thanks for the video

[@themutebutton]

Just wanted to say congrats to your engagement with Anodyne!

[@jpg.]

As the hype for Halo Reach on PC grows, I have been going back and playing on console and I forgot how frustrating the DMR is to use. :(

[@AntzolY111]

Pistol useless AR useless DMR Useless too

[@TheSchwiz]

Thanks for the explanation. Ive been playing FPS games since FPS games were born. I’ve played Halo competitively. I believe this makes things more realistic and I’m OK with it. I get the frustration, but the way i look at it is its part of the recoil system and it means some guns you need to time your shots more versus blasting for a luck shot.

[@Blackt1g3r]

Here's a interesting thought experiment. Imagine, that instead of bloom and recoil rng, an FPS simply implemented those same mechanics in terms of moving the reticle so that a player would have to continually adjust their aim as the reticle moved to keep their shots accurate. Personally I don't think players would like that due to the amount of view-motion that would either be introduced by them to combat the reticle movement, or the amount of view-motion forced on them just by the gun recoil.

[@kimjongwin]

Bungie developers take a fucking seat

[@DroppedYourSoul]

These pure info videos are really great. It is time to get an adult beverage and pace my spammy trigger finger... Slightly.

[@shotarcherz1690]

My dumbass thought bloom was a lighting effect lolll

[@soulfox32]

What's bloom? A mechanic in most fps shooters that makes guns shoot realistically

[@MattL4J]

Before I go into this video, I’m going to say that I’m a fan of how bloom tends to change the gamestate of gun balance. More often than not, bloom serves as a limiter to a precision weapons ttk outside of its optimal range. Being a fan of literally every weapon that isn’t a handcannon and being a d1 sweats player (I haven’t played console d2), most weapons tend to underperform heavily compared to HC due to their inherent nature. The large hit boxes, good magnetism, and high damage per shot, make them imo easy to use weapons that dominate all weapons when properly utilized with cover without question. In regards to d2 though, the 180 spam meta on console is something I can’t comment about because I haven’t seen it.

[@kotickyle]

Look here Fallout, I'ma need you to calm down with all this crispy high quality content. My loins can't handle it. You could've just made a 5 sec vid saying fast fire = RNG shots = frustrated Fallout

[@BoredDan7]

I feel you missed a LOT about bloom, why it's used and the factors that go into it being detested or not really noticed. Firstly you didn't mention one of blooms biggest reasons for existence, which is effective range. Bloom acts as a way to control the effective range of a weapon by reducing the amount of hits at range increasing TTK. There are other methods such as damage falloff however falloff changes the hits to kill and cannot be compensated for by pacing shots. Whether this tradeoff is worth it is a different question, but it's important to note. Another aspect is that bloom introduces choice, pace of firing becomes a risk one accesses depending on the situation. Also important to note that bloom in many cases actually reduces RNG. This may seem contradictory but one has to look at how many weapons without bloom already handle. Weapon accuracy is an RNG element that exists without bloom, bloom is simply the term for a weapons who's accuracy reduces as it fires. The thing is many weapons would actually be balanced to have a wider cone of fire were they not to have bloom. That is bloom can be used to allow a weapon to have accurate initial shots rather than starting with it's full cone of fire. A game that uses this method a lot is Overwatch. There are many hitscan characters with wide cones of fire, but almost every one of them has pinpoint accurate first shots with the cone of fire blooming out. The quintessential example being Soldier: 76 who's rifle will give you three accurate shots and bloom out to full spread after nine. The thing is his weapon would be balanced with a spread much closer to his full spread were bloom to be removed. Having bloom allows for pinpoint intial accuracy to be implemented reducing amount of shits subject to RNG. Speaking of Soldier another point of consideration not discussed in this video is the fire rate of the weapon in question. Soldier shoots at a rate of 540rpm, in this case the effects of weapon spread are less random due to a larger sample size. Higher fire rates allow for the law of large numbers to take effect giving a more consistent TTK. The more you flip a coin the less likely you are to have a substantially larger amount of heads versus tails. I really think that second paragraph is the most important aspect here. People assume bloom is more randomness when in fact it is often used as a method to reduce initial randomness without compromising balance.

[@boyishdude1234]

It's always kind of baffling to me just how much nuance people have to intentionally strip from the discussion in order to "prove" that spread bloom is somehow a garbage mechanic that reduces skill. Another thing to consider is that without spread bloom, positioning becomes far less important. Bloom creates a situation where the weapon you're using has inherent strengths and weaknesses (a role, if you will) that can only be compensated for by properly positioning yourself at ranges where your weapon is the most effective. This increases skill as opposed to reducing it by requiring players to have greater map knowledge and situational awareness in order to get the most out of the weapon they're using. The only alternatives to no spread bloom for balancing and design are insanely high, virtually uncontrollable recoil, or extremely high BTKs and very little recoil, in which case high RPM weapons always win engagements because they output more bullets. The open beta for Battlefield V actually ran into this issue to some extent, because back then the STG44 didn't have enough spread, so it was literally the best weapon in the game due to a high fire rate, high accuracy and a good damage model. They had to nerf it pretty hard for the full release of the game, and it's been a specifically mid-tier weapon ever since.

[@jveerf8573]

@@boyishdude1234 I edit this cause my english suck. I prefeera hard recoil so you are rewarded in mid range if you learned the patern and if you want a precise shot you could do one taps so is rewarded precision and penalized spaming. Reduce a weapon damage by a distance is a thing you can do if you want a certain weapon to be close/mid range with no recoil or spread but also with decent damage at long distance but that depends of the damage reduction.

[@boyishdude1234]

@@jveerf8573 That creates more problems than it solves. That would make it impossible for an SMG to do any meaningful damage at longer ranges. Not that it has to be as good at that range as something like an assault rifle, but it shouldn't be outright unviable in terms of damage.

[@jveerf8573]

@@boyishdude1234 yeah true it should do a decent damage at long range.

[@blasased3219]

*:players with good aim exist* *:bloom I’m bout to end this mans whole career*

[@crimsonarrow1884]

Well said Fallout! I think you're missing another factor though. I think primary flinch is a major factor to this too. Even on PC, there is a lot of rng because of primary flinch. Depending on when your opponent takes a shot, it can flick a shot or two off, and drastically add to the ttk. I'd love to see a video documenting the differences, because I notice a drastic difference between D1 and D2 flinch, even on PC. I think it exacerbates the feeling and power of being 'teamshot'. Go into a 1v1 in D1 & D2, and have some hc vs hc fights, and pulse vs pulse fights. You'll notice that in D1, the player with the more 'skilled' shot and movement tends to come out on top more. This could be placebo on my part, but I genuinely think it's lowering the skill gap in the game, because it's yet another layer of rng.

[@chrisprice1527]

Every time you said lucky fifth I kept thinking of the Polaris lance perfect fifth

[@caiofuccio5788]

The quality of this video got my chin on the ground. Well done Fallout!

[@dec3142]

I absolutely detest this mechanic, couldn't a developer make the reticle like absolutely tiny and give heavy amounts of recoil. Something that requires aim and mastery instead of lucky rng.

[@zordoz2878]

Removing bloom but adding stupid amounts of recoil isn't something I think many people would enjoy

[@dec3142]

@@zordoz2878 how dissapointing that many would prefer luck over mastery.

[@Slender_Man_186]

Recoil has the same result but would also result in motion sickness due to the screen jumping around everywhere, assuming it were to fully replace bloom.

[@HunterBann]

Good video Fallout. The comparison to Halo Reach is perfect because the bloom mechanics are similar. Never have been a fan of bloom, it just stagnates the weapon pool. 180's are glorified sidearms, it just does not feel like a proper hand cannon.

[@atkstat4540]

Great description, dude! One small correct: Technically what you're talking about is "Reticle Bloom", while "Bloom" is a shading effect. I just thought this needed some clarification, since it can be confusing to people who don't know the difference.

[@IVANGUARDI]

Fragtality being shot in reach? You're not secretly sticktality by any chance??? These guys gave us (probably) the best H3 montage of all fuken time.

[@dominator-tc8ik]

My issue with bloom is that it's really only noticeable on Handcannons in Destiny, more specifically non-180s. Every other weapon, even Snipers, can be effectively fired at their max RoF without much issue. So long as your reticle was on target you'd more or less land the shot. I also remember a while ago about how it got so bad you could miss your shot from a complete standstill, ADS'd.

[@jimmyQW9welB6Sm90cHNy]

Isn't this just weapon spread? Why the weird name? Bloom is a graphics option that simulates a higher dynamic range for your monitor

[@emanuelemanuel7038]

Right and why do people struggle THIS hard with it. Like its been in fps for years idk how why people haven't figured it out yet

[@jimmyQW9welB6Sm90cHNy]

@Hunter Zalo weapon spread has been in games since at least late 1990s with quake

[@emberd-l795]

I was looking for a video about the graphical effect.

[@willster947]

Ok so after watching this bloom is actually very realistic to how real weapons fire, however this IS recoil effect. So therefor you shouldn’t have both recoil and bloom affect from a weapon. One or the other.

[@weirdstuff886]

You know I always wondered how realistic bullet spread/bloom was If possible can you explain farther because I'm still a bit lost

[@willster947]

@WEIRDSTUFF it’s more realistic in comparison to generic games. Bloom takes into account inconsistencies of barrels and bullet manufacturing. No bullet shoots straight and the projectory is effected by speed, distance and environment. Recoil also changes the round as the slide is retracting at the same time a bullet leaving the barrel. Hence my comment that bloom is already recoil and games often give a double penalty.

[@willster947]

I recommend you search physics of guns to have a deeper understanding

[@Dawn_Breaker]

I think bloom also helps with the suspension of disbelief. I honestly that's one of the reasons Bungie games have always felt so good when it comes to gun play.

[@giftzwerg7345]

How?

[@TheSultan1470]

@@giftzwerg7345 Because if your shots always landed point center it would look silly

[@giftzwerg7345]

@@TheSultan1470 na it wouldnt, it does when it doesnt. Your weapon doesnt feel like a gun

[@random_n]

I was about to put a novella right square in this here comment section, but I'll make it short. Bloom is there as a mechanism for contributing to unpredictable recoil without the need for high amounts of screen shake or extreme wandering reticles (which are either motion sickness-inducing, or just plain annoying). Rebalancing the game without bloom would be a ton of work and cause vastly different weapon feel... but they already have that work done. On PC. Where they did it twice over, for gamepad and mouse, and it's been well received. Just port over the PC+gamepad tuning pass to console and maybe we can all be happy? Bungie pls? ❤

[@madamwizard]

Good video - never knew what it was really and actually may help me with accuracy some.

[@SpookyDeadeye]

When we talk about bloom, I think of that blur/cold effect called Bloom in the Unreal Engine.

[@peetzaBoy]

Great breakdown! Though, I feel that there is an issue (or a few issues rather) with one of your latter points. It's very uncommon that a player that understands good movement and good map can not aim (relatively) well. And even if we were to ignore that fact - this said player could only learn the other mechanics by playing the game a lot... something they likely would not do if they were getting mercilessly beat down by players with better aim from the beginning. You simply can't learn if you're not given the proper chance. Another harsh truth that we should keep in mind is that Bungie is a company - one that wants/needs to make money - and they *need* casual players to do so. Bloom is one of those mechanics that help keep the casual crowd around. People calling for a complete removal of bloom may not understand what this could do to the game as a whole. Yeah you'll be able to carve through blueberries easier in qp, but the game development would slow to a crawl as desperate pay-to-win elements become increasingly common. Bloom *may* need to be revisited - but its foundational purpose is essential. Could it be replaced? Maybe. But simply removing it is something akin to self-sabotage.

[@fazefan309]

I’m so glad a lot of shooting games don’t have a lot of bloom Counter strike: aye fam check this out

[@carpemkarzi]

Neat breakdown. Never really thought about it before.

[@darkphoenix2]

Ok, let's see if I can explain all of my thoughts well enough... Ever since Reach, I have hated this debate. "Bloom" originally came from reticle bloom, which was a new thing in Reach. As you said, most weapons in most FPSes have natural randomized bullet spread patterns affected by how fast you fire. Reach did what lots of other games do, and showed you a cone of fire that expanded as you fired. But the DMR in Reach was badly designed - you were forced to for too slow for a game like Halo. People took their frustration with the gun out on the visual mechanic called reticle bloom, saying that bloom was making their shots miss. No, it's just the DMR. Much like weapons in Destiny 2, which I finally gave up on months ago after being constantly detained disappointed by the game's mechanics. "Bloom" can't be the be the reason entire archetypes of weapons feel bad to use. It's things like hand cannon recoil obscuring the screen, the come of fire returning to normal size too slowly, etc. Bullet spread exists for a reason, and the kind that blooms from firing your weapon quickly is just an extension of the idea that certain weapons can't be too accurate. If you could spam any scout rifle in Destiny and barely lose any accuracy, it would drastically change the game. They are supposed to be precision weapons, and it's just a matter of fine tuning the recoil, the bullet spread, and how quickly it returns to maximum accuracy. It's a complex subject, but I think we can look at it this way - a player should not have to wait on a reticle between shots. Recoil should be the main challenge in aiming, while bloom comes into play more in weapons with easily managed recoil. It's all a matter of what you want your weapons to do.

[@Artemeco]

It’s so bad in destiny 2. That I bought a PC, the base game and annual pass twice. Now I am forcing myself to learn mouse and keyboard. “Why?” You ask. Because I want to play destiny. Not this watered down, 180 hc spam, garbage meta on console. Bungie did a terrible job with recoil, and bloom for controller players. You know, most of the playerbase...

[@armyofninjas9055]

Honestly, you just need to learn to use the other weapons. I never use the meta and have a pretty good kd in comp. If you're having that much of a problem, use a targeting adjuster mod.

[@Artemeco]

Army of Ninjas, Im unbroken lol. I just want 140s and 150s and TLW to be good. There’s a lot of “good” guns, but the inconsistency behind them makes them not fun. I try to use everything in console but eventually I realized it was just time to switch to where the game is better

[@WaveOfDestiny]

I play destiny 2 on pc with a controller just fine. I main battle rifles, pistols and snipers

[@Artemeco]

ok,exe has stopped working but I wanna use hand cannons lol

[@WaveOfDestiny]

@@Artemeco i also used handcannons for a while. What i'm saying is that you'd probably waste more time learning mouse and keyboard than improving your controller aim.

[@blackandbluedress8500]

I just knew halo reach was gonna be mentioned in this video.... God the nightmares of bloom in that game. Well and the story full of plot holes also

[@Snowyday90]

That map you could jet pack over the top and get to the enemy spawn. There was also a spot up there that you could chill without being hit. That was 2011ish and I was an annoying 13yo at the time of that game. (Halo Reach)

[@diy-hyrum9842]

Really enjoyed this video! Do more like this.

[@fixeddice1982]

@ FalloutPlays Consider this: How many gun types are used on PC in Crucible? One. Hand Cannons. Because they don't have bloom. With the absence of some serious range tuning, and damage tuning, and other tuning, I think there is bloom on HC's because without it they are they only primary gun type worth using. They used the ridiculous "a M&K is not conducive to bloom and recoil" as a way to test it, and it proved that without those mechanics there is absolutely nothing as competitive as Hand Cannons. Now I personally think they should significantly reduce the effective range of Hand Cannons anyway, they are stupid good at every single range. You can get 3 tapped at long range with a HC before you can tap someone out with a scout or pulse, which is ludicrous.

[@drthmonkey42]

Your fighting game example is a good point. Ability spamming is ridiculous in fighting games. They should implement asthma bloom.

[@NamelessGabe]

Bloom should only work like this: Precision weapons - precision style weapons shouldn’t suffer bloom until X-amount of shots do not land headshots Non-precision weapons - spamming without landing a shot gives you bloom, a body shot only reduces bloom half of what a headshot would do (ie if a headshot reduced bloom by 80% then a body shot will only reduce by 40%). For shotguns it’ll be based on pellets landed and how many were headshots, you’ll need to adjust the numbers for reduction because there’s more pellets than bullets per shot obviously.

[@redalertsteve_]

Bloom: the mechanic that completely killed Reach competitively.

[@AntzolY111]

Yea yes I just stand pulling M6G trigger and 99% recoil so frustrating

[@trooperodst6880]

Even when you still pace your shot is still gonna miss because the RNG' damn Reach

[@Slender_Man_186]

Completely ignores how Halo CE-3 has fixed random bullet spread.

[@redalertsteve_]

@@Slender_Man_186 that’s irrelevant to what i just said

[@Slender_Man_186]

@@redalertsteve_ except it’s not, you’re acting like Reach broke something when it actually fixed something. Bloom is far better than the completely random bullet spread of the previous games.

[@get_spanked240]

Excellent video! Well done! I have always wanted to know why bloom is so annoying and if rng is just some term people just used as an excuse, but the way you explained it makes sense. I hated reach with a burning passion.

[@johnh8708]

I think it likely serves another purpose as well, to level out other stats on a weapon. If you take away bloom, the weapon stats could become one dimensional, adding bloom is a subversive way of levelling the playing field.

[@rogerhuston8287]

Great video now that Spring is here! I love it when the flowers are in bloom.

[@cagkiller0786]

FINALLY! A fuckin explanation and not “bloom bad. Reach bad.”

[@christopherrobinson3857]

From this explanation I now understand that bloom is a mecanic that is best used in moderation. Bungi should at least cut the bloom down a bit for mid to high impact hand cannons, and all weapons, plus make it even less of a factor in competitive play. I mean if reticles almost didn't bloom at all in competitive play it would be more fun for those who wish to compete.

[@generalh1042]

"how about stop complaining and tap-fire" -CS:GO players

[@newrecru1t]

I find it odd that bloom is argued for protecting new players or for realism, because at least in my experience and knowledge with Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, and Battlefield 1, the evolution of that mechanic has never been about that. Bloom-more commonly known as Spread in that franchise-is for all intents and purposes, to help balance for a big weapon sandbox. It's another factor to limit ranged effectiveness, while not gutting your capabilities as a whole. For example, two Assault Rifles, one with a low ROF with low recoil and very tight bloom, the other a high ROF with manageable recoil but large bloom. The latter will always win in CQC because recoil and bloom don't matter in those scenarios, the former is far stronger at range in comparison. However, the fast firing Rifle, when your bursts are paced properly, will make it sufficient at medium range while never truly out classing the other weapon. This tedious balance was broken in Battlefield 3, with high ROF weapons being the norm because of manageable recoil, far better DPS, and their bloom being negligible overall. It was clear there were many weapons far better than the other, thus discouraging the variety of the game. Battlefield 4 corrected that a little better... Almost... Its mechanics refined bloom to have a stronger impact on high ROF weapons, making ranged weapons more viable, but then a bigger issue cropped up: map design. There's no reason to bring a ranged weapon to an objective with lots of cover, winding paths, and limits engagements to CQC and a bit of medium range. To play the objective, you needed weapons that specialized to be flexible in those two areas, ranged weapons simply weren't relevant. Battlefield 1 was where I could say they almost perfected the concept for weapon classes as a whole. For example, LMG's bloom was redesigned so it became tighter the longer you held the trigger (which is obviously not an argument for realism here). No longer were they just Assault Rifles with bigger magazines and a bit more bloom/recoil, they became LMGs! You were capable of suppression and taking on people at medium range efficiently if you positioned properly, it made them feel unique yet viable. However, a similar issue still carried over, weapons specializing for ranged engagements weren't as important as pushing the objective in a CQC environment with plenty of cover. I've yet to touch on Battlefield V and examine what changes they've made there, but now my hope is that Map Design is looked at more seriously in the future to help encourage a wider viable weapon sandbox. Bloom isn't a balancing factor to help new players or for realism, it's another tool for Developers to keep the variety of weapons meaningful and fun for Players. I know this is a bit of a Devil's Advocate, but I believe Bloom has purpose when it needs to be used, but that doesn't mean it has to be used. It depends on the game and what it's designed for.

[@novabonk]

Me: Sees title Also me: HORSE SHIT THAT SCREWS YOU OVER!!! ARGH!

[@julianlak1017]

The match usually ends before Crimsons bloom resets. I don’t mind bloom but it is ridiculous in some weapons on console.

[@TheGamer2336]

while playing with hawkmoon yesterday on D1, i swear the bloom in D1 is not as severe as it is in D2.maybe its the different metas or lack of 180 rpm but using hawkmoon yesterday felt so fucking nice. not trying to prove a point or anything, just sharing

[@gonderage]

oh... that bloom... i just searched for bloom as in the post processing effect lol.

[@nicedrumr09]

Thaaaaank you, I really needed this video :)

[@VAVORiAL]

I wish Bungie would at least acknowledge this and say whether they look into it or not. Every time we get an update, patch whatever, I hope they at least mention bloom. But as far as I'm concerned it's just a topic that hasn't been mentioned at all. The least I expect is something like "We think it's fine, it'll stay that way". Sure, still sucks, but it's better than just completely ignoring the community in that regard.

[@armedhyde1448]

Would you be able to do a follow-up video on PC bloom vs Console bloom?

[@jeetbajal8449]

Is there bloom in actual competitive games like cs go?

[@yackemup]

yo me and LightrazorDD noticed something the other day. he was using Cerberus in crucible and noticed it has reverse damage falloff as in the closer you are the less damage the pellets do but the farther you are away the more damage it does. and its damage falloff is like 50 meters. we all know how you love to do reviews and testing on rng weapons maybe you should do one on this weapon because bungie pulled a fast one on us lol unless you already did a video on it and i just couldnt find it then disregard

[@Nikownzyu]

You know why i love playing McCree on console? No bloom. His aim comes down to pure accuracy and yet still not enough if you cant master your kit. Imagine destiny 2 or 3 with no bloom? The game pace would evolve so much. Its why i love destiny 2 pvp vs destiny 1 pvp. It can come down to a faster pace and stronger strategy advantage. That shit would be awesome and i guarantee balanced if bloom was removed.

[@bluyu]

Bloom is the personification of all evil in every first-person shooter game. It is a threat greater than even that of the Darkness.

[@nothertreeinbox]

I think it just causes more discipline with the trigger. Aka not spamming the shots. Edit: guess I didn't take in the other side of the gunfight. Faith in RNG. Thanks for this.

[@kobek8069]

Bungie needs to change something about bloom on handcanons specifically. Pacing shots isn’t something that can happen with the current state of pvp and weapon balance. Example is Ace of Spades. 140s were already barely used on console. They nerf the perk and bows it’s literally going to have no use. Bungie needs to take all the other weapons into account. If the issue is good players becoming too good (which I completely find absurd) I propose that it should remain on certain special and heavy weapons but little on primaries

[@skylerjohansen2247]

I'd love to see bloom gone on console for d2. In the end, players that can't match a higher skill player will become better by continuing to work on it, rather than becoming stale and relying on rng to carry them through.

[@GodofWarChuka]

I wonder if Bloom was in Destiny 1? I used to be a better shot in D1 compared to D2. I’m wondering if it’s because of this Bloom? Or just getting older or something? LoL

[@sergeantbraine6658]

GodofWarChuka Bloom was introduced in TTK after everyone complained about TLW and Thorn. Bungo decided to introduce bloom on all hand cannons, instead on toning down the range and damage falloff on those two cannons, and thus hand cannons were horribly inconsistent. Don’t quote me on this, but I think bloom was toned down during Y3, albeit not removed, that’s why everyone was running around with a god rolled Eyasluna or Palindrome. Bloom carried over and now, we have this situation in which 180’s don’t feel as affected and since NF and Luna’s have amazing perks everyone just uses that. Even after their nerf, they don’t feel like they have bloom and their recoil is very manageable.

[@115zombies935]

@@sergeantbraine6658 Bloom was in the game long before that. It’s been in destiny since before the alpha. Every single gun in destiny has bloom, autos, pulses, scouts, everything. It’s just not generally going to effect your aim in most situations.