Fractal Design Define Mini C Tempered Glass Edition (mATX) - Water-cooled Build

Vote for future cases: www.strawpoll.me/14049281
or comment and let me know which cases you'd like to see an AV Techy video on!
Let me know what you like and don't like about the video and I will do my best to improve based on your comments for the next videos!
Hardware:
CPU - Intel i7-6700K
GPU - EVGA GTX 1070 FTW
Motherboard - MSI Z170M Mortar
RAM - (2x) G.Skill Ripjaws 8GB, (2x) Crucial Ballistix 4GB
PSU - bequiet! Dark Power Pro 11 (750W)
SSD - Samsung 850 Evo (250GB)
HDDs - Seagate Barracuda 2.5" (2TB and 4TB)
Fans - EK Vardar F4-120ER
Radiators - (2x) EK-Coolstream SE 240
Music Credits:
"Nowhere Land" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
"District Four" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
"Inspired" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
"Cipher" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
"Soaring" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...

[@AVTechy]

An update on the Scan Pre-order button situation. Currently the situation seems to be on various different systems I've been viewing the website from, the button can be Green or Blue. I've used about 5 different computers to look at the site and it seems to change depending on the system, perhaps it's an issue with cookies, but that's not something I can pinpoint down. This makes the comments to the final part of this video questionable, but the point still stands. At the time of doing the video the systems I could view the website from were showing Green pre-order buttons. I hope they have changed the button, I will be in contact with them to confirm the situation. I would have posted something over the last part of the video but KZbin have disabled annotations... Anyway, just clearing the situation up somewhat.

[@cultrigs4839]

Bro I can see you reaching 1 mil subs in few months! Keep it up!

[@AVTechy]

Haha, I don't know about 1 million. But I'll settle for 500 before the Christmas Holidays! Thanks for the comment and show of support, it's always a great boost to get feedback like this!

[@fairygirl738]

Man, in a video that wasn't dedicated to water cooling tutorials I learned how to watercool for the first time :) Thanks man your da boss

[@AVTechy]

That's fantastic, glad you got something out of it. Thanks for checking this one out, and let me know if you have any questions. I'll do my best to help out where I can!

[@kennethleecruz]

Great video! for me, you just need to workout your liquid cooling stuff but either way, its still an awesome video! Now i'm finally convinced with that case and for sure, i'm gonna use that case for my future build. Thanks.

[@AVTechy]

+lee cruz Thank you very much, I'm glad it's helped you decide if it's right for you. On the point about working out the liquid cooling stuff, if you can, let me know more about what that meant. It would be really useful to get your feedback on it. Don't worry about criticizing the video or anything I do, if there is something bad I'd rather know so I can fix it for future videos. Thanks for checking out the video, and big thanks for the comment and support. I really appreciate it!

[@louisb3457]

fantastic job, keep up the great work

[@AVTechy]

Thank you very much, really appreciate the support! If I have a clean run of editing after work today, I might be able to get the next video out by tomorrow morning. So if you're interested in the Raijintek Styx, feel free to stick around :)

[@AMPUTATED666]

This was a great video! I've been looking at doing the same thing as you but with a 360 rad in the front. I'm new to watercooling, do you have a list of all the fittings you used for this build?

[@RebelMonkey101]

Hey AV! Good video and keep up the good work! Also, have you checked out the Phanteks p300 yet? Hardwarecanucks already made a review on it and gave it the dam good value award. I think this case would be right up your alley; in the UK it's going for about £55 and it's got tempered glass and rgb lighting. I was planning on buying myself one but I wanted a couple more reviews to come out before I buy it. You seem to have a trend of reviewing everything I'm about to buy so I thought I might ask you if you've had a look at it.

[@AVTechy]

Thank you very much! I've seen that case before, but I'm sticking to the mATX form factor at the moment for a few reasons: Mainly because I haven't got the hardware to really use a full ATX case, and I feel to really make a proper review of a case it should be pushed. I've seen reviews of large cases where there just isn't enough inside them and it looks as feels odd. ATX cases really should have at least 2 cards (not necessarily GPUs), or have 3+ 3.5" HDDs for mass storage, my setup just isn't enough for that level. In terms of water-cooling I haven't got any triple radiators, and there would be a few more extras I'd want when moving up to a larger from factor like a larger reservoir, potentially more fans, probably another GPU (not for air and water cooling, but another for one of the two). I may look at some smaller mATX cases which I would need to get a couple single radiators and a converter for the pump to take out the reservoir (but that's something to look into in the future as well). But when I move up to ATX cases, I will get all the hardware I feel is necessary to make a proper build/review of the case. I don't want to compromise on the quality of these videos (even though they still have a long way to go before I'll be happy). Anyway the main point is that whatever hardware I'm going to do a video about, I want to push it to see how far it can go, so when viewers like yourself see the video you'll know what is possible and what isn't without necessarily needing to do more research. Regardless of that, it is a seriously awesome suggestion, and I really appreciate you telling me about it. If they bring out an mATX version, it'll be in my sights! Thank you so much for the suggestion again, when the channel has grown a little more and it starts to stand up on it's own legs more I can expand into other territories like ATX and mITX. But unfortunately for now it's quite a reality. Without trying to get too real, like many other smaller channels this channel is fully funded by me working a full time job. So I'll have to be patient and wait for my channel to work out how to walk, before I can push it to run. Thanks for checking out the video, and check out the link in the video if you want to vote on future cases for videos. P.S. - I'm so sorry for the lengthy response, it gets out of hand too easily!

[@goondu86]

Nice build, will the bracket for the pump/reservoir combo actually fit at the "front" fan of the top radiator? Then squeeze in a slim 120mm fan and have that either blow in or exhaust

[@AVTechy]

In theory absolutely, but the fittings coming out of the top radiator would clash with the rear fan, hence there was no rear fan in this build. And what's more annoying about that is you can't turn the radiator around to have the ports on the other side because it would clash with the front radiator (that may seem weird, but the ports section of the radiator actually sticks out from the screw holes so it's asymmetrical). A very slim 120mm fan may be able to alleviate this problem but it would have to easily be 15mm or less from what I can tell. Nice idea though, I'll have to do a top mounted reservoir in a future build at some point, I think it would look weirdly cool. Or even an upside down reservoir! Anyway, thanks for checking out the video. And I always appreciate the comments!

[@ZioComposite]

You Sir are a legend! I'm actually looking into doing my first custom loop but with a meshify C instead. Looking to get a slim 280 for the front and 240 for the top. What size radiator/pump do you have in this video? Also, do you remember how many/which fittings you used?

[@aamirraza3315]

I'm planning to fit a 240 top and a 280 rad front. Is it posible to slide down a 280 rad at the front ? (removing the drivebay)

[@finn511]

Hi, which port do you open when you want to drain the loop to let air in? I am building a similar PC in the same case and can't seem to figure out where I could let air in if the drain port is on the bottom right.

[@MrPruske]

i want to put an ftw3 hybrid into an evolv shift. you should look at that case

[@tomkittisnatch4973]

You pull off the front panel by grabbing it along the bottom edge (the same area from which you remove the bottom filter).

[@AVTechy]

That was addressed in the video, but wasn't presented. After a little more experience with more cases up and down the various price ranges this technique is very common, and seems to hold up fairly well, but it just doesn't feel right - just me being pedantic though :P

[@tomkittisnatch4973]

@@AVTechy I agree that it does feel a bit brutal but my attitude is if I break it I'll complain to Fractal about its design and tell them they can send me a replacement in the meantime.

[@AVTechy]

@@tomkittisnatch4973 Well said, if the design doesn't hold up to the intended use they need to support any issue that comes from their design.

[@w3st80]

the way you attached the fans to the radiator with the small screws then small screws to attach to the case,is that more sturdy ? might have to go this way myself on my fractal r6 ,my pump/res combo will be hanging off my front rad along with 3 fans!

[@AVTechy]

It's really no better, it's just the only way I could get it to work. My outlook on building a system is if you can get it to work, and it's stable to a point that you're comfortable with then it's spot on. As long as it's not going to come flying off the chassis and snap your GPU out of its PCIE slot then it'll be fine (serious over exaggeration there). A full radiator by itself isn't that heavy, but if you're going to have a pump/res combo mounted on a fan then I'd recommend heading to your nearest hardware store to get a pack of nuts and bolts so you can bolt your fan to the chassis. Since fan screws rely on self tapping the plastic chassis of a fan they can wear out with multiple installations. So with your fan secured to the chassis with a steel mechanism rather than a plastic mechanism you can sleep sound knowing it's not going to fall off. Since we're dealing with water it's sometimes more reliable to make little changes like this. I've only had builds up for a matter of weeks, and if you have a really tight loop you may actually find that some components are being supported by tight tubing runs. But for a permanent/semi permanent build, go with steel. Anyway I've nattered on for way too long, let me know if you need any of that clarifying, or if you have any more questions. I might be mistaken but I think I noticed your name pop up as a subscriber, if that's so I really appreciate the support! The road to 1000 subs by February 20th is going to be tight, we're facing demonetisation if we don't make it so I really appreciate your part in help the channel get there! If the demonetisation situation is new to you, I made a video about briefly explaining it and how it's effecting this channel here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4mqqXxrbbecq9k But anyway, I really appreciate the support! Seeing as you're water-cooling I'm pretty sure you'll have most of it figured out, but if there's a gap in your knowledge, let me know and I'll do my best to help out!

[@JTAlweezy76]

I prefer to not have to overtighten fittings to stop leaking. If it is leaking, remove the fitting and apply teflon tape around the the threads then retighten and test. This setup looks sick. What is that pump that you were using? I really want one!

[@AVTechy]

I'm with you on that, but I'd rather have the O ring if the fitting against the block doing the work rather than tape. Don't get me wrong, tape works, but the O ring squashed to create the seal is likely a more solid seal. Plus I'd probably screw up the application of the teflon tape haha. Appreciate the advise though :). As for the pump, it's an EK D5 combo unit with a 140mm reservoir. It's a pretty solid pump and hasn't caused any problems for me yet. But there are so many great pumps on the market so it's always work checking around. Thanks for checking the video out, and of course I appreciate the comment.

[@adihegde04]

Hi, Great videos. Could you suggest me a m-atx case for a ryzen 2700x build. Any mainstream brands will do which would be available in India. Thanks in advance.

[@AVTechy]

Hey, thanks very much, I'm glad you've enjoyed them. Do you have a certain budget or criteria you want to meet (tempered glass, support for drives, CPU cooler support, etc.) Let me know if you have any specific details you want to meet, and I'll see what I can recommend.

[@adihegde04]

@@AVTechy Hey, Tempered glass is not necessary, but I would like to upgrade to liquid cooler in future, for now planning to use the Wrath prism cooler which comes with 2700x , I am liking NZXT H400(not i version). I can spend till 150$(10,000 Rupee approx), Not sure about airflow on h400. any suggestion would help.

[@AVTechy]

If Airflow is a priority then you can pick up something like the Mastercase Pro 3 or 5. They have excellent airflow performance and are large enough to build pretty much any Micro ATX system. If you're looking for something a little nicer, then the Meshify cases can be picked up within your budget. They look fantastic, and have a full front vent for some pretty solid airflow. There's a lot of choice if your budget stretches to $150, all the options I've mentioned are below $100. Anything with some a full front mesh panel, or the majority of the panel being mesh will more than likely have good airflow. The H400 is very closed off, so I would be cautious about going for a 2700x with an overclock and a stock cooler with that. Let me know what you think.

[@bebemanden]

You put so much efford into your videos damn and only 338 subs that's a joke!

[@AVTechy]

It's a little annoying, but let's keep up the quality and pace and we'll see where it goes. Thanks a load for checking out the video and commenting, really appreciate it! If you subscribe, or stick around for future videos then I'd recommend voting for future cases at the link in the video description. It's a cool way for you to help me to get you more of what you want to see.

[@aidanquandt6268]

Lol 4.2k now huge growth and good job AV

[@ezimm81]

What size tubing is this?

[@alexwong1474]

is this case as great as nano s in custom watercooling/loop support?

[@AVTechy]

It's bigger so I can imagine it's a bit of an easier build. But I haven't built in the Nano S so I can't say for sure sorry.

[@P8qzxnxfP85xZ2H3wDRV]

You put your cpu cooler upside down. The outlet needs to be on the top. It's designed with the outlet at the topmost position so that no air bubbles can be trapped inside.

[@AVTechy]

Interesting, that's not something I've come across before. But it's something I really want to test now to see the results for myself. Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

[@SDAspra]

What RAM height would be an issue for top radiator clearance? RGB ram are typically a bit taller so would they be out of the question? Thanks

[@AVTechy]

Unfortunately this case has been out of my hands for over a year now so I can't give you a specific answer with regards to this case. But the likelihood is in most cases that the motherboard VRM heat sink will clash with the radiator before the radiator has a chance to clash with the RAM. When it comes to tower cases there's rarely a generous amount of room for ultra thick radiators. In this case I'd say you'd struggle to get a radiator larger than the 26mm thick radiator in this video up top (you may be able to push to a 30mm thick radiator) before clashing with the VRM heat sink. Realistically case manufacturers should include radiator thickness support (as well as graphics card width support) to prevent unknown queries like yours.

[@SDAspra]

@@AVTechy Didn't expect such a quick reply on an old video. Thanks! Sorry, I meant AIO clearance as opposed to a passive radiator. VRM heatsink is an interesting consideration. Yes it sits closer to the top of the motherboard than the ram, but ram is potentially taller - a different axis. I have the foresight to limit myself to just a 240mm aio (with a sub 30mm thick radiator) which, when positioned away from he motherboard, should be out of the way of the vrm heatsink. That leaves the aio fans and the ram. I think I'll take he safer option - physically shorter ram sticks. Thanks again!

[@AVTechy]

​@@SDAspra Well I was just closing up for the night and saw it came through so why not see what I can do to help :) AIOs and Radiators can be considered the same as long as they have the same footprint and depth. The thing with the VRM is while it's not generally taller than RAM, most cases (including this one) don't position the radiator mount far enough away from the motherboard to clear the VRM let alone the RAM. So as ling as there's a clash with the VRM, there's no chance the RAM will clear it. You'd have to go with a MB with a really small VRM heat sink (10mm or less) to stand any chance of sliding a radiator past it. But then the RAM is right next to the VRM heat sink so you'd need to go for ultra low profile RAM and hope it all works. The build and installation headache goes if you consider the VRM heat sink to be the limitation. But if you're trying to get the absolute most out of a build, then the only way you can know for sure is to sit in front of the specific components you want to use, and try them out yourself (which is the most annoying answer you could probably get from anyone). Sorry I can't be of much more use, but for such a specific question with such tight tolerances, I can only realistically advise rather than prescribe. In this case the limitation is the VRM heat sink, but that won't be the same for all cases.

[@SDAspra]

@@AVTechy Your answer is very reasonable and not annoying at all! The only thing is that watching this video, your top 240mm radiator appears to clear the motherboard VRM just fine (9:29). My motherboard VRM is similar yours in size, so my guess is it should be ok (but we'll see).

[@AVTechy]

Yeah I see what you mean. I've just scoured the internet to find a more solid answer, and Hexus say a 40mm radiator up top is the maximum, I can only pressure that you can add fans to that: m.hexus.net/tech/reviews/chassis/98650-fractal-design-define-c/ But then KitGuru states the maximum motherboard components should be 40mm with regards to the top radiator space: www.kitguru.net/components/cases/leo-waldock/fractal-design-define-mini-c-case-review/ I should have covered this better in the video...

[@f2bacon]

for your radiator, aren't you supposed to use the long screws, through the case, and the fans, to the radiator? that's how i have it. i don't think the mistake was using the long screws, but screwing it together without putting it on the case

[@AVTechy]

Either way works as long as it's all connected. The force that can be placed on the threads of a screw is very high before they shear, and the weights involves are in the single digit kilos which is all very lightweight.

[@user-wt3fp7gj7i]

can i put a 120mm radiator and 120 fan on the rear？

[@AVTechy]

I don't see that being a problem. you should be able to have the fittings go up or down without clashed with anything. But if you have fans up top you may be restricted to the fittings on the radiator being at the bottom (not an issue though).

[@scottnicogsi]

hi buddy I'm looking at building a matx gaming pc but I'm stuck on what motherboard to get. any suggestions

[@AVTechy]

Hey, thanks for checking out the video. As for motherboards, as long as your looking at the correct socket for the CPU your looking to get, then my suggestions would be to get a motherboard with 4x RAM slots so you can occupy 2x slots now and upgrade in the future. If your not looking to overclock then you should probably stick to the B series for Intel as the Z series boards can cost a fair bit more, and the A series boards for AMD. If you do fancy overclocking a little then you'd want a more expensive Z series board for Intel CPUs, but if your using Ryzen then you can go for the Mid range B series boards (a nice cost saving with Ryzen). Then there's connectivity to consider. Do you want an M.2 slot (could be handy for a boot drive or upgrade), USB type C, USB 3.1 ports, 16x and 8x PCIe slots for SLI or Crossfire support (not really worth it). And all that's left is the looks of the board, that can be the deciding factor between a couple of boards funnily enough. I hope that gives you a few places to start your search. If you want any more help with it just let me know - motherboards are quite a tricky choice.

[@scottnicogsi]

@@AVTechy what about this buddy uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/

[@AVTechy]

Sorry, I can't see anything in that list, it comes up as blank.

[@scottnicogsi]

@@AVTechy sent it to your Facebook direct message buddy

[@Pohinapaja]

Not a huge fan how the tubes are going but yeah still nice tho

[@AVTechy]

I get that, I really want to get into some hard-line water-cooling which would open up the options for how loops will be constructed. But hard-line is a little more difficult to make re-usable and sustainable on a budget for multiple builds... When we have the budget at some point in the future we'll explore those options. But for now I'll do my best to make some cool looking loops until then. Thanks for checking this one out, I appreciate the view and I hope you enjoyed the video minus the tubing :)

[@nimkal]

You should of still showed the build with the tempered glass on in the end, at the very least. It's its main new feature after all.

[@AVTechy]

I'd completely agree, but unless you want to see the rest of my room over the build inside the case then the side panel should remain off. It's not impossible but it would take more time and effort than I felt was necessary. If I had the perfect setup then I could do that, with the correct lighting and background to get away with it, but at the moment I have decent lighting but not in the right position, and the background isn't exactly flattering, hence if I want a well lit angled view at the case I need to remove the reflective side panel. It's just how it is and I wish I could change it sooner. But I need this channel to grow before I can make more drastic changes. But thankfully your view and comment is helping towards that goal, so I thank you for it. I hope you enjoyed the rest of the video, or at least got something out of it.

[@opvask]

its a shame that u didnt delid the cpu when u go through the trouble of making a customloop

[@AVTechy]

+opvask It's an interesting point, personally the 2-5 Celsius to be saved from de-liding the CPU is not worth it to me. If I was having some sort of thermal throttling and it was having a noticeable impact on performance I'd be right there with you, maybe it's something I'll do in the future. But that's for the suggestion, much appreciated. And that is for checking out the video!

[@s.paulguillory6122]

What was the total cost of this build?

[@AVTechy]

A rough breakdown of the component cost at today's value is as follows: Case - £100 MB - £100 CPU - £300 GPU - £400 PSU - £160 Drives - £300 Cooling Components (Blocks, Tubing, Fittings, fans, Pump/res. etc) - £800 Total cost is around the £2000 mark. It sounds ridiculous, but bear in mind the air-cooled system was around for roughly 6 months before the water-cooling parts came into play. It wasn't bought all at once. But if that's not something you feel you can spend on a water-cooling system now. Consider checking out EKs aluminium range which perfrom pretty much just as well but for a fraction of the cost: www.ekfluidgaming.com/ek-kit-a240g If you're components are compatible, you're looking at a GPU and CPU water-cooling system for under £250. If my system was cooled using this setup we'd be looking at the £1300 mark. But bare in mind that those kits are aluminium and aren't compatible with the standard nickel components, but EK do sell expansion kits, so you shouldn't feel there's no room for growth. Let me know if you want to chat about water-cooling options for your system. I'll be more than happy to help out. Finally thanks for checking out the video, I appreciate the view, and best of luck with your system!

[@s.paulguillory6122]

ive read the fluid gaming aluminium system starts to leak fairly quickly. I it possible to add an additional soudcard to this system? Or does the graphics card prevent it?

[@AVTechy]

+S. Paul Guillory I've not heard the leaking is a common issue. And in all honesty or had a couple of leaks in my systems, but tightening up the fittings a little further generally fixes most leaks. There is room for a sound card, and a couple of extra cards if you wanted. You could have SLI GPUs and a sound card with a USB expansion card if you really wanted to. Since the block intlets an outlets are offset from the cards normal area most other components won't clash with the tubing or fittings.

[@2711marcus]

Do I detect a slight welsh accent? :)

[@AVTechy]

Maybe... yeah I'm based in South Wales :P I can't tell it's there at all, but apparently it comes out stronger in videos (I have no idea why :P). You're the first to pick up on it online though, well spotted, or heard :)

[@2711marcus]

Maybe it's because i'm from Cardiff 😁

[@eddyc7264]

tried to write a google review and funny enough, there's no option to, so i will leave one on every youtube review i would give it a 1/5 stars, extremely poor QA/QC, just google their issue with front MIC and front USB connections and you will see quite a few examples on mine (purchased 2018), it's both those issues, front MIC is not soldered/connected correctly as such, sound connection is not 100%. As for the front left USB, nothing at all, not registering any USB devices plugged in, nor is power available even for charging