Frame Antenna vs. Magloop Antenna (INDOOR TEST) Part 2

[@QUADBOYification]

Thanks for all videos, love to watch. Always good englisch and good science.

[@OM0ET]

Thankd so much my friend for you support! 🙏😉

[@OM0ET]

Also thanks for your donation! 😉👍

[@abrahamnorthhampton3327]

Thanks for posting this. I watched after the live stream. Very interesting results (and very different than what I expected before I watched)!

[@K1ZEK]

Thank you for sharing your experience. Happy New Year 73 Leo

[@vetinger]

I like your experiments.Please continue to do....

[@jamesnichol8064]

Hi Paul. James G0EUN. The setup is fine. It appears that the tx indoors dose not work well. The loop is the better antenna for RX, some times things go well, others we have to suck it and see. Good effort. 73 James.

[@rikardjernlas907]

This is not my field, but is not the frame antenna using the electric field and the magnetic loop the magnetic field? I thought that meant that the frame antenna should be rotated 90 degres around its vertical axis if they shall be compared....

[@mariot6959]

Thanks, I know this test was very Painful, but very educational 73's

[@ekbanjosworld4926]

Would the Mag Loop work if you had a metal roof? I'm having a hard way to go with ny Chameleon under the metal roof,,,

[@Bradwick1]

I am no expert in radio and I do not have a shortwave transmitter but I do have a receiver and have researched building a decent AM antenna and followed plans for a frame antenna from a 'Carver' brand receiver instruction manual that was very highly rated and is nearly identical to your frame antenna build. This frame antenna calls for 22 gauge wire which looks to be thinner wire. Just a thought. Does the mag loop need to be a certain length for a specific frequency range?

[@petrok1rp254]

S-parameters clearly says that frame loop is wrong way… extremly low Q (wide flat SWR) means low efficiency. Also loop close to metal parts inside room wall does not help cos of its strong coupling. Compare to that the MLA says on analyzer Hi-Q and good efficiency. Anyway the radiated power of both loops is highly degraded inside the room. Try old and thousands time tested Rock-loop! It works compromised but works and it is much easier to build it. I used it on my buss trips to OZ, G, OH, F and worked many QSOs with 50W out. Cheers Paul!

[@JimmyBaevsky]

As to the frame I think good enough for 40m, but can't understand how you provide so good matching of impedances.

[@dl6urk88]

A good small single Loop is hard to beat ... especially indoors.

[@ainhoasamford8046]

Menudo curro te has montado saludos

[@cache4pat]

It would be interesting to see how that design works outside, away from the closed space and other influencing items.

[@beppecavagnoli3994]

Hi Paul, intresting this comparison! It seems that frame antenna Is quite deaf🤔, don't you think so? My best from IU2MKE, Beppe

[@frankbarrena7892]

No problem, I figured you’d find them, no worries!

[@laythabdulwahab9498]

all room conditions for sound and light are perfect with very low noise. your job is excellent now i can choose the good indoor antenna.but what is the max power output can be handled by mag and frame antenna . also is it dangerous to for health by using indoor antenna with 100 watts thanks for you for the very nice trial, it was very useful.

[@OM0ET]

Thank you so much for your comment! 😊 I would not recommend to use 100W Magloop so close to the body.

[@QUADBOYification]

It is a great antenna without the shielded wires. It would probably work a lot better if you made a replica with copper tape (5 mm) optimized for a specific band stick to a window. Maybe smaller in diameter with less loops. Just copper tape on a window, try that ? Takes a lot of calculations, but simplicity should be better I gues. Good video, great gear, indoors TX is always a challence.

[@frankbarrena7892]

Do QC on the 20. Signal was answered but weak!

[@stewartrv]

Thanks for this, it's a pity it didn't work so well. Maybe it's much more sensitive to being indoors? I'm not sure how these are polarised or which is the primary field. Mike M0MSN has built the big version, we will have to see how he gets on, that is at least double the size I think. 73!

[@alex0000021]

BONJOUR ENLEVER LE BALOUD EN DESSOUS DE L ANTENNE JE PENCE?

[@jozefbezan2501]

Danke für das tolle Video.Ich lernen von dich,73.von Jozef,Wien.😊😊😊

[@alvarogaitan2529]

thanks, Paul fantastic job 73 from kb2uew

[@miranovak8098]

Když jsme jako kluci dělali vysílačky tak vždycky s kruhovou anténou. Myslím, kdyby rámová byla ve tvaru kruhu tak by fungovala mnohem lépe.

[@waynedavies3185]

Spent time watching video. Enjoyed watching for over an hour and a half. Interesting video all the way between the two antennas. Take care 73 for now va3grp Canada. Personal Wayne.

[@rkwmazowsze2620]

Did you grounding antenas?

[@ylthreezadw3trz575]

Great comparison lovely rigs 👍 watching from the Philippines, Vy 73 Mabuhay 🌺

[@terencebarfield5864]

Please Sir. Tell me all about Amateur in Philippines and if I am allowed to make my own transceiver - Respectfully Terence

[@asaprocky8195]

Maybe some hams on your Live Feed can CQ you for your tests? Or schedule a QSO with them? Swing over away from the pile ups, and call CQ for any returns.

[@OM0ET]

That's perfect idea! Thank you 😉👍

[@ZakharVasiliev777]

спасибо,понел я,а поляризация у них одинакова?

[@alex0000021]

OUVRE LES FENETRES ?

[@Nathan1975Liggy]

try the frame antenna with 6 inch gaps between windimngs

[@napomania]

One guy I talked to days ago said that he used cooper cables with no rubber skin but only a thin skin of paint / smalt. I think too about the distance of the wires

[@izzzzzz6]

Would be nice to see this comparison with the antennas outdoors. I would like to make a magloop array 3x3. Antennas are like dogs, they shouldn't be kept inside all day long and you have to keep them for life.

[@OM0ET]

😄 nice told 👍

[@johnwest7993]

The metal in the walls is going to destroy your signal. It will couple to the wall metal, then re-radiate from each piece of metal, all out of phase with one another. The open roof simply means that you will have at least some signal that goes straight up, but that's about it.

[@dovpauzner5093]

Well done !

[@k4vms]

Can you comment on country and city you live in. Ricky from IBM, Ret K4VMS Florida USA

[@frankbarrena7892]

You got several answers.

[@frankbarrena7892]

Might be better at night?

[@KLCKLC-vi6fd]

Nice audio good video

[@thomaskilburn3111]

why didn't you tune up the loop antenna first and the magloop second with your antenna analyzer. they counter act with each other. the concrete walls have metal rebars. then you are conducting a accurate test. .

[@frankbarrena7892]

Looks good to me

[@LuisYomba]

Thanks for sharing

[@PatAutrey]

Hey Paul I really need your help to be able to calibrate the mini 1300 would you please help me

[@OM0ET]

Hi Pat. I never did it too 😃 hi

[@PatAutrey]

@@OM0ET so it was working properly when you received it - that’s good

[@OM0ET]

Yes, I had connected a proffesional microwave dummyload and the SWR was perfect 1:1

[@PatAutrey]

@@OM0ET I have a store bought 5 element Yagi and will test that and will make up and end Fed and see what I get hopefully is close. The unit came w three small unmarked SMA connectors I assume these are for calibration but can’t tell which one is for short, open, or 50w

[@OM0ET]

Hmm but mine came without this small SMA's. Maybe it came calibrated already

[@kellypaws]

There has to be something amiss with the frame loop. It shouldn't be that much worse.

[@arjen-de-vries]

the frame loop is basically a series resonant cirquit. Connected this way it has a very low impedance on its resonant frequency. It should be transformed but I could not see how that was constructed.

[@germanjohn5626]

A good swr doesn't mean the antenna works well, the way it is made and matched is basically a dummy load made from wires. Shortening loops like this means that a lot of his power was dissipated in the shorted winding. That is what he is essentially tuning into. Imagine in your mind a transformer the primary resonant and the secondary shorted.

[@JimmyBaevsky]

What a good air, Paul! I have no such in Moscow. There is much noise here.

[@ea5zz]

Increíble grs 73 EA5ZZ

[@toml.8210]

I rthink the frame antenna will be just perfekt for me. 😀 and much better than a few meters of wire out the window. 🤨

[@frankbarrena7892]

Very good!,

[@ronaldbeverley]

;hello from ron---n4net virginia usa nice looking frame antenna !!!!!!

[@JamesWareAmendment2]

Great job, Paul. But I have to laugh at your analyzer's markings. "ANAL YZER" is a bit funny.

[@OM0ET]

😅👍

[@mikevalesenior]

good evening from mitch in Manchester UK

[@alex0000021]

MOI LE DOUBLE VITRAGE CA MARCHE PAS

[@ArtPop]

Wystaw antenę na zewnątrz

[@gpocat4518]

At the very least, it should be a decent receive antenna. 73

[@FSR-v9c]

well by 26min in it is clear to me the loop is a better item..

[@neilgodfreybartley3143]

👏🏾👍🏾💪🏾

[@frankbarrena7892]

It is AMS TO BNC

[@frankbarrena7892]

20 meter looks good now turn your mic gain up, you got answers they reported weak signa. Mag antenna is good lotsa answers

[@jamesnichol8064]

Hi Paul. In a case like this I would think it better to have everything set up before you start the video, then explain your intentions, and then straight into tjhe video test, . Not critisizing, just a thought.73 James.

[@ekbanjosworld4926]

We learn nothing from always winning!

[@ekbanjosworld4926]

I'm sorry, I just can't justify having to pay 6000 pounds for a radio!!!

[@terencebarfield5864]

I absolutely agree with you ( homemade transceiver you can repair no problems ) where ready made bought from retailer you cannot repair that is impossible.....

[@frankbarrena7892]

He is answering you

[@donalfinn4205]

The only thing I dislike about your vids is that everything is so slooow and drawn out. Other than that,👍.

[@OM0ET]

Thank for your opinion 😉👍

[@Spasmomen]

I watched it at 2x speed

[@frankbarrena7892]

He answering you on both antenna

[@TonyLing]

Gut

[@Wrangler403]

The antennas are far to close to the walls. Best to work outside. 73s

[@r0naldzuccala198]

Hello thanks for the test very interesting. Ron. Z. .. the north American shortwave radio and toy robot museum.

[@cacciskagrana6603]

Malloppo tooop.

[@vcsgoru4353]

its better to show reversebeacon reports and faster too ;)

[@thomaskilburn3111]

AF5AG

[@alabamared2568]

Geeze those guys don't stop yapping long enough to get a word in my gosh how disappointing!!!!!

[@frankbarrena7892]

Ha ha good luck to you!

[@SkyWire88]

Note to myself: Never buy a QRP rig. 🤥

[@justme-n-gracie]

Your test proves what has been known for decades... a low SWR does not necessarily mean that an antenna is a good or efficient radiator/receptor. The frame antenna seems to be very lossy and inefficient. This is what the wide bandwidth and low SWR tells me. A mag loop is a negative gain antenna but very narrow band and selective, which is the main positive point for a mag loop... for the frame antenna to be so much worse it is not a viable option. More of an open air dummy load on a stand. Good test and you did a very nice job in construction however something just doesn't add up. I believe that if you took the wire from the frame antenna (or same length wire) and stretched it out in a linear fashion you would have better reception than the frame antenna, even if untuned. I suspect that if you tested both of these antennas again outdoors you would see similar results. I am curious what would happen if you tuned the frame antenna for max rx signal instead of low SWR... rx only of course no tx. just for reference and comparison, I will have to go back and watch your frame antenna build video again... when I watched it earlier it looked like there was no connection between the 2 sections of the tuning capacitor. Perhaps I just did not see it. As you most likely know some air variable capacitors are common connected on the "ground"/frame/stationary side but the variable/moving sections are independent and have to be parallel connected to combine capacitance. I may be wrong with what I thought I saw. I have never seen an air variable like the one you used.