framing a kindergartener for manslaughter | Perfect Person Ep. 88

Welcome to the church of PERFECTION, where callers confess their secrets and misdeeds to me on this special triannual, bicentennial solo episode.
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PERFECT PERSON
A flawless call-in advice show in which Miles Bonsignore answers your calls, solves your problems, and helps you achieve perfection.
MILES BONSIGNORE
Miles is an internet creator, comedian, and podcast producer, known for his work at The Try Guys, on The TryPod, as a commentator on Pretty Much It, and for being real cool
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[@PerfectPerson]

Hey, I used the KZbin editor to cut the titular call out of the show, and just wanted to provide context here. The concept of the episode is that people call in to confess their problems to be absolved, obviously this is is a ridiculous concept. Firstly, I am in no way capable of “absolving” anyone of anything - that was meant to be purely a comedy premise. I am also not here to defend the callers for their own actions that they call in to discuss. My goal is always to make an entertaining, silly, sometimes sincere show, where we celebrate the interesting problems that people have in a way that makes us feel more together. With the kindergarten teacher who got a kid wrongfully and unjustly expelled, I failed in doing that! Of course what she did was completely terrible, she even admitted to that. If people are unhappy with her rhetoric around the way she talked about it, or mine, or her specific actions, I totally get that! I was trying to keep the show moving along on the fly, provide comedy where I could, and treat her call the way I would any other, but I can completely understand if that wasn't adequate, and also if this call isn't what you enjoy the show for. I apologize if this call was upsetting to you, I totally understand why that would be. If something on the show ever feels not quite right, I value those who speak up so I can continue making the show as good as it can possibly be. You’re all the best, thanks for listening.

[@hopegerber4790]

Thank you Miles! I think many of us understood that you were trying to keep things light. Thank you for valuing the words of your viewers'. I am glad that so many people spoke up on why they felt this person's actions were an issue, showing how much care they have for the children growing up in this messy world. The best thing we can do as teachers in this state of the world is create loving and safe spaces for our kids whenever possible. Childrens' actions always have a deeper meaning, and it is so rare to ever be "random". Keep rockin' on--love the pod, and i hope you answer my call one day hehe

[@katferrera]

The way i skipped over this comment and was just super confused about the rest of them. I was like "what the fuck are you all talking about???"

[@kelseyp600]

Thank you Miles.

[@cass3088]

❤❤❤

[@omgsicle]

daaang I was so confused til I saw this comment. I was actually about to link this episode to my brother and a friend specifically for that crazy story 😭 honestly insane calls like that are half the fun and intrigue of the show!! it always leaves me thinking, wow… people like this truly exist. and maybe we’re all messy as hell in one way or another 💀 but I get it. that one was a pretty uhhh spicy confession to say the least lol

[@TheOGBabbleBug]

The wide cuts to miles talking to an empty chair are gold 😂😂😂

[@intheyellowcorner]

I came here to say the same thing. 😂🙌

[@OhItsJustAspen]

I'm not one to laugh out loud when watching content, even when things are legitimately funny to me, and even I am cracking up every time it cuts over. Creative genius.

[@alexwhite8802]

For all the perfect people out there, epi pens can last several years beyond their stated expiration date! As long as the medicine inside doesn’t look foggy or discolored, you’re good. (Obviously also get updated epi pens, but every allergist I’ve had has told me to never throw them away as long as it’s not discolored and horde as much as possible because of their expense). Much better to have an old epi pen than no epi pen!!!

[@melissaw3020]

important info!! I can't believe she threw someone else's medical device away without even looking into this...

[@TheShauNanigans]

Thank you! I literally just replied to another comment with essentially "Most medicines are just less effective when they're expired." This confirms my assumptions!

[@annagracecook]

This!!! Not to mention she said she threw it away BEFORE IT EVEN EXPIRED ??? Like what. the. fuck.

[@mollywillo]

Yeah I'm not as knowledgeable about it as I should be but even I was like... it was "about" to "expire" and you just went ahead and threw it out, before even getting the new one?

[@VividiVavidivoo]

That’s what I figured. I can’t understand the mentality behind throwing it away. Specially without having a replacement yet

[@Lesbiel]

that first caller is NOT IT. not the straight girl making a queen comment about the five year old she framed for manslaughter ..... you know that poor five year old is gonna hear about that his whole life. parents treat their kids different with some shit, his behavior of throwing away pop-it toys or whatever she said is MILES away from throwing away someone's medication. for his entire school history, this will part of his file and record and most importantly his STORY. there will be a suggestion of aggression and dangerous impulsive choices that he never even displayed (because again, a five year old going through his classmates toys and tearing down posters is simply not the same level as going through a teacher's desk and throwing away medicine) & then giggling with no remorse. ick

[@lllamalamoa5072]

Honestly filled me with so much rage. People like that make me pray karma is real.

[@salemmdean]

okay i was literally about to comment about the queen thing i’m so glad someone else found that off putting. like maybe that kid very well is gay and that is perfectly fine, but what a strange comment for a grown woman to make about a 5 year old

[@peacechickification]

This!!! Not to mention that being scapegoated can seriously fuck with anyone head- but a child? Who’s life will be greatly shaped by this incident? It makes me sad. And the fact that she even recognized how the kid must be hurt by being blamed for something he actually didn’t do? And has still just kept it a secret? And knew it was wrong enough to keep it such a secret? And still refuses to do anything about the situation other than call into a podcast about it? That makes me sad.

[@paigeholmes5442]

Truly. I had to pull over to type out my comment. She is disgusting and NEEDS to leave the teaching profession.

[@eyejay404]

Honestly I give most callers on this show a huge benefit of the doubt. But this caller, man…I hope they see this episode and the comments, and knows what a shitty person they are.

[@cael_aj]

The juxtaposition between the first caller, who as an adult teacher framed one of her kindergarten students for manslaughter and doesn't regret it, and the second caller, who spilled some chili one time in 8th grade and still feels horrible, is just wild 😂

[@scblei9848]

Thank you for this comment I missed miles’ update at first and was so confused why everyone was so angry about the chili story 😭

[@JazzIsSoWhatEver]

imagine calling into a podcast about your darkest secrets and then going to the comments and everybody is absolutely torching you 😬

[@masturblades]

yeah I hope first caller gets some sense in her while reading these comments

[@um2913]

As they should tho. He was a kindergartener

[@kelseyp600]

Imagine being a piece of literal shit and thinking its funny and you should call into a podcast about it

[@iman81369]

Lillian if you are reading this, I hope you realize what a failure you were as an educator. Having such a clear bias against a student because of your own preconceived notions of who they ~might~ is not quirky or funny. The parents did not get the student expelled, you did wtf was that story…. Side note: I will say this kid clearly needed outside intervention and it wasn’t being provided to him which isn’t Lillian’s fault but simply framing a child for something like that because you are out of your element is so wrong

[@miss_daniele_83]

As a teacher, I'm a bit shocked about the first story. I don't even think the real crime here is that she blamed the kid (although also bad), but that she just threw away an epipen before it even expired. Didn't she say they were supposed to have two (one in the office and one in the classroom)? She said it would expire within the month when she threw it away, but then said it was months later when the incident happened. The parents were asked to bring a new one, but they weren't aware that there was not a single one available for their daughter. I'm very glad this didn't turn out worse!

[@dancemomsbc41]

This is basic first aid training I learned as a camp counselor I can’t believe she didn’t know

[@paigeholmes5442]

Even if it expired, it was still a possession of the parent. She is disgusting.

[@lolavela3467]

Why didn't she just say the pen was expired, she'd emailed the parents and she takes responsibility for not following back up with them? This kid was expelled and his parents faced legal action because of her lies! She called the kid evil!!, terrible. JUSTICE FOR EVAN

[@user-ol3wh4oc1g]

Right?? And even if it was expired she should have kept it until she was given a new one. Expired Epipen is still better than nothing. I hope those parents hears this (Evan’s and the girl’s) so they that they could stop blaming that little kid. And the fact that she laughs about this and says she wouldn’t do it again(blame a kid)?? She doesn’t see that her throwing that Epipen is the problem. God I wish she’s not a teacher anymore because that’s just terrible, I wouldn’t want any kid to rely on that kind of an adult.

[@miss_daniele_83]

@@dancemomsbc41 All schools have mandatory trainings for epipens every year!

[@Sam-oq6rt]

I'm a childcare educator in Australia. The first person is a criminal. The child who had a reaction could have died. I'm absolutely speechless...she blamed a child who she failed to educate. She throws away a lifesaving medicine without having a replacement. It is her responsibility to make sure the medication is there and not expired. Absolutely crazy she thinks it's funny. I hope the parents or the school listen to the podcast and she faces consequences because this is absolutely insane.

[@chrislombardo4184]

That kid is going to be in therapy in 10 years doing EMDR on “nobody believes me” or “I’m a bad person”. That’s a lifetime of pain he’s going to have to work through.

[@cottagegremmy]

I got blamed for a lot as a kid with autism in the public school system and I second this ! This kid obviously just has behavioral issues that his parents never thought to seek support for and now his teachers are failing him too. What a POS excuse for a 'teacher'. I can't wait to be a way better teacher than her: can't handle the kids and the responsibilities, don't join the field.

[@GrungeGranny]

Yeah no I hated that one so much that really bothered me

[@emmapalya1682]

As a teacher who's room was dedicated to the extreme allergy and "troubled" kids, I'm appalled by the first story. Not only was blaming the non-violent child (acting like a child who simply needed behavior modification) absolutely inappropriate, at least in my state, those do have to be locked up and out of reach from the kids, AND we cannot throw away expired ones. We have to return them to the parents. She handled every piece of that inappropriately and I would not have trusted her to keep my kids safe whatsoever. That is potentially lethal for allergy kids and disgusting to blame the little boy, and she sounds like she has no remorse. Side note: I can't fathom how horrible I would feel as that little girl's parent to find out my frustration was directed at a child and his parents who did nothing. Nor can I imagine having to figure out a new school to send my child to that far into the year, or that my child did not do that in the first place. There's so many dominos that fall on both sides in a situation like this that cause lasting effects for both the children and their parents. Both suffered because the person that was supposed to keep them safe didn't do their job, and that's so incredibly sad to me. The way she spoke about the boy in general is sad to me.

[@TheShauNanigans]

Lillian literally said "and he would do it again" when the kid didn't even do the thing he was accused of in the first place.

[@amandajunecesarano7423]

But now this could probably cause a mindset of well if I get blamed for doing something I didn’t do, I might as well do bad stuff anyway. Sick that she thinks he’s “thriving”when she caused such a traumatic event for him.

[@TheShauNanigans]

@@amandajunecesarano7423Yes. I thought this as well. I really hope this caller has a lot more regret now that she sees the amount of flack she earned in the comments. Miles was too kind as well, in my opinion.

[@PrabhjotAujla3]

that first caller is NOT feeling guilty enough for my taste. blaming a kindergartener???? grow up. i hope that kid gets the support he needs from the adults in his life moving forward

[@lllamalamoa5072]

Literally, she's a nasty piece of work

[@miqueladavis5393]

The fact the first caller is not only in education but has two children of her own…YIKES

[@riribeasley4741]

The first story is why I’m reluctant to trust teachers with my daughter. “What about me? I’m a victim!” I did not find her funny at all. She lied & blamed a 6 year old for her fuck up that nearly caused her other student to DIE. Truly awful person. She got this kid expelled. He won’t trust teachers again.

[@christywillis1707]

Seems like the first caller has shaped her memory of the "bad kid" to suit her purpose to try to feel less bad about what she did to TWO of her students. Why on earth would she throw away an epi-pen?!?! Did she even dispose of it properly?

[@grllwrfr]

literally the audacity for this half-rate excuse of a teacher to fuck up in a huge way (literally why wouldn't she have kept the near-expired epi-pen *until* the parents brought in a replacement???) and then frame a kindergartener whose greatest crime, so far, has been being a bit of an asshole. it's a shame the kid got expelled bc clearly the person who doesn't belong in that school is the teacher if she can't act more mature and show more foresight than a child

[@katrienvdk]

I hope the first caller gets caught from this. It’s a pretty specific story.

[@katiehanson6253]

Agreed!!! She deserves to have her license taken away. That's absolutely insane! Illegal!! And immoral... how the heck are you a teacher? Let alone a kindergarten teacher. You Lillian deserve to be in jail.

[@scblei9848]

Bruh the way I saw this after he cut it and was like damn isn’t that a bit harsh for dropping a pot of chili in middle school 😭

[@frances9975]

What was the story? It was edited out

[@cottagegremmy]

@@frances9975 A teacher framed her 6 year old student for almost potentially hospitalizing another student with a nut allergy because the teacher threw away her epipen and blamed it on the 6 year old because he probably has undiagnosed behavioral issues and so she didn't like him and literally referred to him as a "monster." In short, she was a really crappy teacher who deserves to be fired and yeah thats that

[@chokingnoises2384]

the first call bruh u could not TORTURE that information outta me. IT WASN’T EVEN EXPIRED? “one of my kindergarteners almost died because of me teehee” literally sick

[@chokingnoises2384]

lowkey miles should call schools in her area code

[@grllwrfr]

yeah like as a whole i think the internet is too quick to publicly shame/doxx randoms who go viral for bad stuff but to me this person is an exception bc holy shit someone that dumb and cruel should not be around children

[@tonicalhoun1934]

Bro, a kindergartner!?! That kid needed help. The teacher and school failed him. The parents who took action against him is crazy too. What an overreach of power over a 6 year old.

[@adrianpink8144]

Agree but I understand the parents’ reaction bc their kid could have died. But that’s horrifying that the caller let a kid get expelled instead of owning up to it. She should have been fired and not allowed to work with kids anymore

[@iloveclovers]

@@AJFilms14 when kids are cruel there is always an underlying reason. kids are sponges. in my experience they are usually in an unsafe household or some sort of unsafe environment.

[@peacechickification]

@@AJFilms14kids don’t pull that kind of behaviour from their ass. They were either taught to act like that by the adults in their life, they were neglected by the adults in their life and were acting out, or both. Regardless, moralizing a child’s behaviour instead of treating them as beings that just react to their environment is setting everyone, but especially that poor kid, up for failure.

[@AJFilms14]

@@peacechickificationyou might be right, but I’m having a hard time comprehending that a 5 year old is a reaction robot and not a person. I think someone needed to explain to him that if he does that kind of thing the natural consequence is no one will like him, and then better coping mechanisms. Sometimes when kids act in that kind of way they are begging to be treated like a real person instead of someone whose actions don’t matter or something. Someone noticing it shows them they do matter, they are going through something. Not stopping him allows that behavior to effect the other kids. A hypothetical I know, but the only reason I said anything about it in the first place was because nobody was acting like these kids matter, they were being so flippant. A 1 year old not a moral creature but a 5 year just about is.

[@peacechickification]

@@AJFilms14 ok, so you’ve been putting words in my mouth. I never said that a 5 year old is a reaction robot and not a child. You did. What I meant when I said that children react to their environment, I mean that they are 100% a product of their environment. Yes, they are autonomous beings, but they are entirely at the mercy of the adults in their life. If their needs aren’t getting met, yes, they are closer to infants in finding ways to get those needs met than a 25 year old with a fully formed brain and a fair bit of life experience both as a dependent child and as an independent adult. So to act like a 5 year old is choosing to be bad when they’re just responding to their environment however they can to try to get their unmet needs met is fault of the adult, not the child. If a 5 year old hasn’t been taught how to emotionally regulate and communicate their needs to the adults in their life, they’re not going to know how to do that. Like a baby cries for unmet needs, a 5 year old acts out.

[@Ciela887]

I made a lot of mistakes as a teacher but wow that first caller made me feel better about them. I thought she was going to say that she forgot she threw it away, assumed the kid trashed it, and realized what happened later on - not that she deliberately lied. Dang!

[@arielle.notthemermaid]

Hope the 1st caller read all these comments calling her out and reflect. As a teacher myself, its basic knowing that "difficult" students needs more care and empathy. The 1st caller, adult, stooped down the level of a child. Just let that sink in...

[@wryn.is.trying]

the first story is from 12:07 to 31:40 if anyone wants to skip it

[@lunabirdlove]

I actually cannot imagine the thoughts that went through that kids mind. He thinks he could have killed a fellow classmate and Lillian feels little to no remorse. I hope she's reading these comments and understanding the weight of her awful decision to frame this child because I really don't think she gets it. She sounds like an educator who could do this again if she encounters another "evil child."

[@stefannieflannigan6444]

Especially when the "evil" in question is easily correctable behaviours if he had a competent teacher...🤦‍♀️

[@SoupEaterExtraordinaire]

And, while I'm not saying this is what happened, the risk that the kid who gets labelled as an "evil child" is more likely to hold an identity that gets over-policed already like BIPOC kids (esp. Black boys), kids with certain neurodivergent or mental health diagnoses, immigrant kids, *cough cough queer kids* makes this kind of behaviour especially egregious. The school to prison pipeline is real, and it's made up of teachers like this.

[@lunabirdlove]

@@SoupEaterExtraordinaire agreed. I feel lillian may be finding some sort of comfort in that this may be "lesson learned" for evan and he will stop doing the things she accused him of doing. But she doesn't know that for sure. Evan could instead grow up to have a "fuck it" mentality and get in more trouble because he already has an expulsion on his record so what's another? ugh I hope he's doing alright

[@miabolte306]

The first caller is truly EVIL if you’re expelled from a public school often times you’re excluded from all schools in the district she ruined his life. He quite literally might not be able to go to school ever again if his parents can’t afford homeschool or private. It’s truly so psychotic I can’t wrap my mind around it. All because a grown woman had a beef with a FIVE YEAR OLD. SHE NEVER EVEN HAD PROOF OF HIM STEALING in the class at all

[@lolavela3467]

I feel like his parents were probably sued too. She seriously impacted him in and his family negatively for YEARS and she has the audacity to call the lil kid evil. Gross

[@melissaw3020]

I thought she said it was a private school but anyways I agree with you

[@melissaw3020]

Nooooo that first confession is so bad. She should have been fired!!! I cannot believe that she threw the epipen away because it was "close to being expired". Let alone blaming it on a STUDENT. Insane.

[@biancasader3982]

and she didn't even warn the parents about throwing it away... that is SCARY

[@TheShauNanigans]

I'm not sure about epipens, but I know with a lot of medicines the expiration date isn't necessarily a "use this medicine within this time frame or else!" situation, either. Obviously, don't be using medication that is ridiculously expired, but if you have a migraine and take a couple of expired Excedrin it's not that big of a deal. It usually just means it is less effective, but it is at least still more effective than it not being there at all.

[@robo7643]

​@@TheShauNanigans yes epipens can be used years beyond the expiry if they are foggy or discoloured

[@TheShauNanigans]

Thank you! :) I learned that after scrolling to the very next comment after posting mine. LOL I should have waited.

[@theacaban]

The teacher confession is absolutely the kind of person I DO NOT want in my child’s life. She should have taken a much different approach and bring in administrators/parents. Especially since the incident she blamed on him is a MEDICAL concern. No forgiveness being given here. 💅🏼

[@raychipsd]

finally, a J'ACCUSE - themed episode

[@PerfectPerson]

Me in a French detective show called J’accuse is career endgame

[@raychipsd]

@@PerfectPerson 20-year game plan. You need to get on The Traitors (UK). Competition game show where there are "traitors" and "faithfuls," and the faithfuls need to deduce who the traitors are before they're all killed or the traitors win the money. Literally J'accuse, the show.

[@billmurrie]

the direct comparison of the first call and the second call is so funny to me like Beef was more sorry about spilling chili as an 8th grader than an adult was for possibly killing a child LOL

[@MsOHsoFantastic]

1) Teacher's should not be throwing away medication because it's "close to expiration date". As a former epipen kid, they are good 2 years after that printed date. 2) Why wouldn't she send it back home? She's not a medical professional, so idt she has the authority to trash students' medical property. 3) I know it's hard being a teacher and I empathize with her frustrations, but framing a kid because you don't like them is insane. Like, throwing the medication can be explained but to double down like that on a kid... no. As the adult in the situation you have to do better. Ion think working with kids is for her

[@he.said.teenjiejer]

honestly throwing something like that out seems potentially dangerous too? i’ve never had an epipen so i can’t say for sure but i do know you aren’t supposed to throw medicine out. edit: okay i asked my mom and it’s dangerous bc a) the medicine and b) the needle

[@pantomimegoose]

It's funny that both Miles and Miss Lillian were immediately feeling empathy and speculating how they would respond to having a child with a nut allergy, when it is just as likely that they'll have a child with a behavioral issue like Evan. No empathy seems to have been shown for that kid or his parents.

[@jacquelynchin5513]

And Ms Lillian has TWO kids! Imagine how she’d handle it if she later finds out one or both of her kids have behavioral issues or a cognitive disorder. Also at 5-6 kids are mean and need reinforcement of what is right from wrong, what social norms/cues are, and how to emotionally regulate

[@melanie9860]

@@katelynsnyder2855 Avctually behavioral issues are OFTEN the fault of the parents or the caregivers around them if not always. Please educate yourself on neuroscience, epigenetics, ACES, and generational trauma. Parents always be trying to take the blame and responsibility off of themselves. Especially at 6yo. Its the caregivers. Even if the kids has Autism or something its on them not getting the right help and meds, care and teachers would know this as well.

[@melanie9860]

I still think lillians a bit evil though. But probably her parents did that haha. Jesus GO TAKE CARE OF YOUR KIDS PEOPLE

[@chelseasmith5621]

i was a kid with a lot of medical problems, and i feel like the teacher confessed to actually violating some rules set in place to protect those kids. in the gentlest of terms, you cant be doin that you also cant frame a child just because his behavioral issues arent being supported and you think he's "bad", thats also failing a child. its sad how little empathy she showed for him

[@lllamalamoa5072]

First caller is a horrendous teacher! She should have had the balls to face up to HER error re the epi pen as the responsible, TRAINED adult she supposedly is. I'm also deeply concerned about the lifelong impact and trauma her framing likely has had on the young boy. Issues around not being believed, trust problems, doubting his own memories, strains with his parents. Honestly it could be having horrible lasting impacts on his mental health. Also, she talks about his "demonic" behaviour - at no point does she mention doing her duty as his educator to look into reasons behind the behaviour. Trauma, home issues, recommending testing for neuro divergence - no, just labelling him a "demon", making him take the fall for her failure and laughing about it. Vile.

[@lunabirdlove]

"doubting his own memories" exactly this. My memories start at 4 years old for me, he will remember this event. He may begin to believe he did actually throw away the epipen because he threw things away before. Lillian may think the "best case scenario" is he learns from this and no longer behaves badly. But the worst thing to happen is him accepting he did this and choosing to do worse because 'oh well who cares anymore. this is going to be on my school record forever.'

[@pasc8699]

@@lunabirdloveit’s even upsetting to me that she doesn’t know what happened to him. She hasn’t tried to find out what school he went to to see if he turned out okay? I was blamed for bullying a kid but it was my group of friends that did it and I walked up right before the teacher came over. This was grade 2 and I vividly remember that feeling of hopelessness while the teacher told me I was bad. The kid even told me after he knew it wasn’t me that did it and we got it sorted out with the principal. I can’t imagine what that did to that boys mental health

[@mushroom4713]

Lilian could be sued by Evan’s parents if they find out.

[@Tayylynnx0]

she SHOULD be sued for this

[@sighhAYSzG5AG]

She should be sued by both parents tbh. She almost killed a kid through negligence, and she got another kid expelled.

[@kelseyp600]

I’m not gonna lie that first call actually pissed me off and I didn’t wanna keep listening… like why was she so chill about that situation? That’s horrible. That’s a bad person.

[@lolavela3467]

I had to stop too. Not sure I'll finish the episode. She was just so terrible

[@grllwrfr]

no same, literally turned off the ep on spotify and hopped over to youtube comments because the fact that she was so casually laughing about (1) behaving so cruelly to one child (2) physically endangering another was fucking with my head. HOW do you hear yourself admit these things and not feel horrified???

[@Pumpkincollector]

I feel like miles needs to call out callers like confession #1. He was too supportive. There have been other calls in the past where the caller is totally the problem and miles usually gives them advice to lead them in the right direction without being too direct. However people like this NEED to be corrected. This person is responsible for small children and selfishly hurt two of them. The way they speak indicates they don’t even begin to understand what is wrong about the CRIME they committed. I really don’t like how not correcting them feels like enabling them or saying that what they are did/doing is okay.

[@brookecolombo7022]

Agreed. It’s not that I think he has a personal obligation to set these people straight. If he’s not going to condemn them, he just shouldn’t take the call or shouldn’t post the segment. His lighthearted response could give the impression to other viewers that such actions are acceptable and could potentially perpetuate that kind of behavior among others

[@ten-hx2xi]

i agree and thought so too but then i noticed a lot of cuts and realized theres probably more on the patreon that we are missing w that juicy confrontation!!!

[@judygamboa102]

On top of everything that happened with the first caller, I think the most upsetting thing she said (coming from an early childhood educator) was that her 3 year old is “lazy.” 😢

[@peacechickification]

Fuckin seriously :(

[@cottagegremmy]

she's so gross omg. she takes so much pride in being a POS

[@ang7541]

Ms. Lillian should not be a teacher after that. If you’re willing to sacrifice someone’s education (yes even kindergarten) because they were a burden to you shows how little you care about your students.

[@cottagegremmy]

Especially kindergarten- it's so hard for younger kids who've been expelled to get into another school because usually that means they're a danger and have behavior issues (which clearly the kid did have some behavioral issues, but he deserves help not accusations) because schools don't want to deal with kids like that. She's a POS

[@he.said.teenjiejer]

gotta love that each time we get a solo episode, we’re told a different amount of times it happens. previously miles said it was the triannual solo episode and now it happens once every two centuries

[@PerfectPerson]

Once a month every century

[@7ab3tha]

Nah, that first one wasn't a mistake. She thought it out and doubled down on it. She could have come clean and still didn't. Then she's laughing as she's recalling the story and still demonizing the CHILD! It's disgusting. She shouldn't be allowed around children. This will literally affect the child for the rest of his life. This poor kid.

[@peacechickification]

Right? And she obviously knows how wrong it was or else she would’ve told someone about it in the last 5 years. But then to finally break the silence by calling into a comedy podcast? Ick. Ickickick.

[@alexandraertz1238]

I’m still reeling over that first confession. Wild! There had to have been something else she could have done to deal with this kid besides literally framing him for her awful judgement. She and the parents are wholly at fault here and this little kid paid the price. He’s a kindergartener, who knows what he was trying to cope with that was causing him to act that way and then he gets fully kicked out of school for something he didn’t even do?! This teacher knew she was going to get fired and was trying to cover her own ass at the expense of a literal 5-6 year old. Full j’accuse!

[@emmaliehandley9090]

I definitely think it’s wild because we had (in afterschool) incident reports specifically for this kind of stuff. Things that weren’t about physical accidents but a paper trail so we could work on behavioral issues (and also prove to parents who didn’t believe us that something was up.) granted this sounds like it was YEARS ago with how she talked about it so maybe that wasn’t a standard thing then because school age education had grown a lot in the last few years.

[@ZJacobBall]

The Church of Perfection’s hymn sounds remarkably like the Halo theme.

[@PerfectPerson]

No way

[@hinone9674]

Also the fact that Lillian didn’t follow up about the epi pen is insane. If you have a kid in you class who could die without that epi pen and you don’t have one how do you just ask the parents one time and not follow up?

[@sighhAYSzG5AG]

She didn't have one, because she threw it out. If that's not a crime, then it's definitely against regulations for educators.

[@grllwrfr]

this part. i don't know or care if it was genuine ignorance, neglect/forgetfulness, or what, but her throwing out the epi-pen before the parents could replace it alone is just appalling. the fact that she admitted it was "her bad" for not following up but then still continuing with this narrative about some evil 6 year old as if him ripping out pages is worse than an adult paid educator throwing out medically necessary equipment just shows she should lose her job

[@jacquelynchin5513]

Ms Lillian thinks locking the drawer with the epipen would make her a bad person, BUT NOT THROWING AWAY A KID’S EPIPEN AND THEN BLAMING A CHILD ?! She doesn’t regret it ??? This kid clearly has behavioral issues or a rough time at home. A five year old does not know emotional regulation. Also,,,, HAVE YOU MET A CHILD ?! Kids are so mean 😂 my sister is about a decade younger and she has roasted me since forever. Kids are mean both intentionally and unintentionally, that’s just a fact of kids

[@mollywillo]

It was also weird saying he was such a nightmare and then admitting he'd never done anything dangerous or truly harmful. Like I get dealing with emotional disregulation is very difficult and it's a lot of tough work to manage children but you're a kindergarten teacher! You can't fix every kid's problems but you're going to be encountering crazy behavior in your workplace. I feel like a "nightmare" would be killing small animals or hurting other kids and even then it's like, we should figure out what's wrong and put extra resources there (esp. if it's a rich school), not punish the child irrevocably. He hurt Lillian's self-esteem? You are a grown adult! And the recurring comments that he could never be caught but they know he did it. At what point could it just be scapegoating the one kid who's been typecasted as the bad one?

[@grllwrfr]

@@mollywillothis 100% when i heard a TEACHER describe her own student as "evil" i was prepared for like, him hurting animals or something extreme like that but then she just ended up describing stuff that's definitely bad but not unheard of for a 5 year old

[@alisonXsmiles]

the first caller really added a lot of stress to so many other people because they didn't take responsibility as an adult. /: kinda ridiculous

[@paigeholmes5442]

I am a children’s therapist at a children’s shelter. If that kid was exhibiting those behaviors at such a young age he needed HELP and SUPPORT from his teacher. Instead, you used a vulnerable child as a scapegoat. Evil. Exit the childcare field. Step out of my profession. You do not belong here.

[@nonstp24hr]

She wasn’t necessarily right but calling someone evil..get a grip. Also just because YOU think you’re a good therapist, working with children doesn’t mean you are

[@riribeasley4741]

Calling a CHILD evil just says everything about her lack of skills/ability to deal with him correctly. All of these behaviours clearly indicate he needed more help. & she didn’t help at all. She chose to have him framed. This is awful.

[@Kristenmarie04]

⁠@@nonstp24hr throwing away expensive and life saving medical equipment, blaming a child, and having no remorse is a huge deal. And while “evil” is a big accusation to throw around, that caller is at the very least a bad person or a person who is capable of bad things. I think instead of focusing on that commenter’s semantics it’s weird that you’re not more concerned by the caller who is clearly not meant to be in the child care/education field.

[@cottagegremmy]

@@nonstp24hr Lillian is evil. She calls her 3 year old lazy, said "something wrong with this kid" about a 6 year old and then framed him for a possible death. Then felt NO REMORSE? Dude gtfo, shes EVIL

[@allisonsmith5598]

Is it not common sense to wait until the new epi pen arrives before throwing away the old one? And not even talking to the school nurse about it? Expiration dates are kind of bullshit to begin with.

[@maryoshea8109]

I really hope Evan’s family watches this. Lilian should not be a teacher, what a disgusting person.

[@jordbanana]

So horrifying! And she has ZERO remorse.

[@amelierose3088]

I was framed for something I didn’t do by teachers when I was 7 and I have to say the not being believed by teachers when I said I didn’t do it and them threatening me and not even apologising when it was proven I didn’t do it, I still have so much anxiety about people not believing me about stuff or getting in trouble for things I didn’t do

[@kerrymadden9832]

first caller literally said "i wanted him to suffer" and then tried to claim she didn't mean for anything bad to happen to the kid

[@kerrymadden9832]

also the parents not bringing a new epipen for a max of like 4 months does not make this their fault, epipens dont go bad that fast and she shouldnt have thrown it away, the response of "well they should have paid attention" victim blaming to cover her ass is gross? to me her getting this kid expelled is WAY less of an issue than almost getting a kid killed with incompetence

[@dancemomsbc41]

Idk I think the teacher confession is super fucked up like I don’t think that person should be a teacher especially cause she says she doesn’t regret it

[@NatalieCharlynn]

I agree that story didn’t even make me laugh at all it was realllly fucked up 😢 He was in kindergarten cmon I don’t think a 5 year old ripping book pages out constitutes as him being evil.

[@breejeanne]

Yes, she's my worst nightmare!! They're supposed to fight for our kiddos and get them the help they need, not demonize them for child behavior!! She shouldn't be allowed to work with children!!!!

[@NatalieCharlynn]

@@breejeanneAnd it’s his first teacher too :( Hopefully his teachers now are able to help him better with whatever classroom issues he has and he can see they are on his side not against him

[@pantomimegoose]

I still remember a teacher I had in third grade who would mime strangling the "bad kid" in my class's neck. Yes, he made things difficult for the class, it was clear that he struggled in a classroom setting, but no teacher should act their frustrations out on such a young child. A teacher treating a "bad kid" poorly in front of other students only distances them further from the standard class. I don't know if the teacher who called in ever lashed out on the student before the epi-pen incident, but the way she talks about him as a "catty queen" and a "demon" makes it clear that she saw him as an adult or inhuman before seeing him as a child.

[@biancasader3982]

also she said herself that the epi pen wasn't expired yet. Couldn't she have waited for the parents or expiration date? Or even tell the parents to hurry up because she threw it away??? As someone who struggled with teachers thinking I was demonic, that was BAD.

[@mollyg.5404]

I feel like miles laughing through the entire first call was him trying to cope because... WHAT???

[@riribeasley4741]

I hope so & not cos he genuinely thought it was funny. It was not 😳

[@kaybug689]

I think so too, I think he was like stunned. But I do like that he said “framed a child for attempted murder”. He was like you didn’t just get a kid suspended, it was bigger than that

[@christinal6038]

Miss Lillian did not regret what she did. She is a bad person. It'd maybe be a bit different if she actually showed remorse

[@bondfool]

I don't get the sense that Lillian DID learn from her mistake. She still thinks Evan was an irredeemable monster, and not a FIVE YEAR OLD WITH ISSUES. She's still shifting blame. She's gleefully telling this as a fun story on a podcast. She should not be working with children. Period.

[@AJFilms14]

I agree 100% that the epipen thing is almost criminally negligent HOWEVER: Having emotional outbursts is issues, being actively and premeditatively cruel is not issues it’s having a tendency towards cruelty and he needed to learn that he couldn’t get away with it. Sometimes when troubled kids don’t get in trouble it’s just more proof that nobody cares about them cause they’re not paying attention. The other kids were unsafe around him, and he needed consequences or else he’d think being cruel is normal and fine.

[@adrianpink8144]

@@AJFilms14you keep commenting this and the kid was mean, but expelling him for something he didn’t do isn’t going to teach him anything. He wasn’t a danger to others, he just needs to learn social skills and probably needs therapy.

[@AJFilms14]

@@adrianpink8144 I guess we don’t really know how it was, but I don’t get how people are being so casual about him wanting to see other kids sad. I’ve seen many ways kids have with trauma and there’s no excuse for cruelty, maybe it wasn’t was bad as I’m imagining. And I only commented like twice.

[@AJFilms14]

I mean my experience in school with a cruel child was when we were 12 not 5, 5 might be too young to understand I don’t remember being 5. I’m not arguing he ought to have been expelled. She was obviously being abused at home and I excused how she treated me and others at the time to cope, but looking back… no excuse. Probably projecting a lot, but still what if he’s cruel in the future? Children become adults, sometimes people forget that people can be bad. Definitely deserved a better teacher.

[@paigeholmes5442]

She is disgusting. She is not sorry at all. She thinks it’s funny. Total psychopath.

[@iloveclovers]

as someone who works with kids i have no sympathy for this teacher thats crazy. that teacher failed her student- kids always have a REASON for why they act the way they do. if you cant help kids dont work with kids. what a horrible thing to do to a CHILD

[@iloveclovers]

im happy to see the comment section seems to agree. this lady should not be working with kids i cant understand why she is in the first place

[@EliRae42]

The caller in the first story horrified me. Even with just the way she spoke about that kid, she should not be a teacher. The kid clearly had some sort of disorder (like ODD or a severe impulse control disorder) and/or an unstable homelife. Like that is not typical six year old behavior, he clearly needed help and professional intervention. As a teacher she should have recognized that and tried to get to the root of the issue instead of deeming the kid a "bad/evil" kid. My little cousin has ODD and severe impulse disregulation, and once he got help it improved immensely but even though he had early intervention he still had trauma from considering himself to be bad when he just couldn't control his behavior. I can't begin to imagine the longterm emotional damage getting framed for that caused that student. The gaslighting that he was put through because all the adults around him didn't believe him probably made him feel crazy and left him with a lot of issues. The fact that the teacher didn't consider any of these future ramifications really shows that she knows nothing about child development. She framed him for attempted murder, that will follow him and his parents forever. Idk how long ago that was but she should find the kid and parents and confess, and take responsibility for the damage she undoubtedly caused. Edit: I am currently studying to be a pediatric neuropsychologist, just wanted to clarify my knowledge on this isn't just anecdotal lol.

[@EliRae42]

Ok yeah im fuming that first story is gonna ruin my day.

[@alexawatchesstuff1512]

The "he was just mean" and "he was evil" as a kindergartner is disgusting. I'm a behavior person. She should not be allowed to be a teacher or be anywhere near kids. She "wanted him to suffer". I am appalled by this. The reckless disregard for the well-being of BOTH kids is frankly criminal.

[@pantomimegoose]

Yeah, kids learn early on how to think of themselves based on how they're treated, right? Like being treated regularly as a demon who makes things worse for others probably shifts how they think of their own potential to be good. I've heard young kids I've worked with in the past shrug off bad behavior with "I guess I'm just a bad kid." When really, at that age, you have the potential to be anything.

[@jacquelynchin5513]

Even as someone who’s never studied a day in the medical field, it’s so clear he needed help, I feel so bad for him. I went to elementary school with someone like him, and that guy did make kids uncomfortable (bc none of us know emotional regulation and didn’t know what to do) but he was getting help. I’ve also gone to school with people who have really bad allergies and they had to carry a plastic pencil case around with them that had their epipen and instructions in it EVERYWHERE at school. Epipens and allergies in young kids is no joke, they don’t know how to manage it yet Also?! KIDS ARE MEAN, they will roast you and knock you down a peg at the most random moments. And if you let it get to you, kids will keep being mean and doing it

[@paigeholmes5442]

YES.

[@cottagegremmy]

Future educator here: I'm currently 4 semesters away from getting a job as a teacher for highschoolers (eventually going to K thru 3rd) and Lillian is a prime example of how educators fail students every day. He wasn't a monster, he's a child. Our job as educators is to help children not just in the educational sense, but I would also argue in a social sense. We correct behavior when we see fit and we teach the children "hey, don't do this" not make statements that 'something was wrong with him' and all the other monstrous comments she made. And to have two children of her own? I hope she learns how to be a parent and a better educator eventually because those kids will grow up miserable with a parent who doubts them and spends her paid working hours blaming 6 year olds. Grow up. This kid is going to grow up always thinking they did something wrong, their parents will now have trust issues since they got expelled, and their behavioral issues may get worse. You're a grown up who realizes right from wrong, the child is not. You should've focused on correcting the behavior, then talked to the schools guidance counselor or behavioral resources and found a way to help the 6 year old- not "let me have a power trip and get a 6 year old in trouble". 6 years of undergrad just for you to go and tattle on children and ruin their self image is exactly what it means to be a failure of an educator. Sorry for being 'rude', but "teachers" like her are exactly why I'm aiming to eventually teach K thru 3rd because younger children in the education system are extremely misunderstood and have to constantly battle with adults to be heard. You could've changed this kids life for the better and tried to understand him, but you did the worst thing you could do. I'm not religious, but I think you gotta repent.

[@cottagegremmy]

To add: Miles, I love ya man but you flopped on your response. You should've been harsher but you were moreso like "you made an oopsie! its okay you'll learn!" when the caller clearly didn't feel remorse, she kept going like "and he'd do it again" and "it felt good to not have him around"- she clearly did not care and started to believe her own story that he did it. She's nuts (get an epipen!). I wish you would have been a little more critical, but what's done is done and I just hope she reads all this and gets help and learns how to give it too.

[@brandylynn3056]

Came here so fast because I need to see peoples opinions on that first confession 😂💀

[@brandylynn3056]

My opinion is that if you’re a kindergarten teacher you need to be able to handle all types of 5-6 year old kids because you really can’t expect them all to be angels…. It’s a literal child. I’ve worked in school settings, I’ve been a TA before, I’ve had some not so nice students but you gotta remember that they’re children and that they don’t know any better. Also seems weird of that teacher to just throw away the epi pen and then not ask follow up questions to the parents when they didn’t bring a new one like yes it’s the parent’s responsibility but also as a teacher it’s your responsibility to an extent as well. Idk it’s kind of why our school system is so fucked up, teachers don’t get any support with students who aren’t the most well behaved and then teachers do get blamed for a lot of shit that they don’t deserve. Teachers have a lot on their plate but blaming a kid and then that kid getting expelled and you still didn’t confess…. Absolutely wild. That’s going to be on that kids record for forever and could’ve spiraled them into even more bad behavior which tends to be a recurring theme with misbehaving kids. Suspensions and expelling aren’t really teaching them anything especially at the young age of 5. Seems like that kid needed some more support that that teacher couldn’t handle and I’m sad that the solution ended up being expulsion when it should’ve been handled by a more professional person. Anyways that’s a long rant but thank you Miles for not just completely siding with that teacher. Also the fact that it’s a well off well funded school rubs me the wrong way…. I don’t doubt that she wasn’t the only teacher or staff ready to just throw that kid out.

[@hannahlovescats55]

I agree! This was a rough story to hear.

[@arielaim5687]

As soon as the word “epi-pen” came in to the story I was 😮😮

[@_deniseberry_]

@@brandylynn3056this is such a well rounded opinion on this situation, can’t believe you hid it in the replies

[@sleepybey]

The first caller is so evil. It's literally your job and responsibility to help every child. You kind of become their second parent. Disgusting. As a teacher I have worked with a lot of asshole educaters but damn. That person should quit because the kids do not deserve to be raised by someone like that.

[@veronica33351]

a homophobic comment about a kindergartener…seek help!

[@he.said.teenjiejer]

yeah oh my god her calling him a queen was a little! yikes!

[@lezlezzin]

WILD!!! cannot believe how casually she dropped that!

[@vsimone2418]

Genuine question, what was the homophobic comment made?

[@kimberlynicole8874]

@@vsimone2418there might be smth else she said but i remember hearing “i’m sure now he’s out and proud” after saying he used to make comments on how her clothing looked

[@proteaoaxaca5204]

The confession, from the first caller was disturbing, That caller is the type of person who would only show remorse, regret or get emotional if they were CAUGHT, but the real them is who we just heard. The amount of teachers in this country that act like this and blamed her students first- but then pretend that is the biggest mistake and they would never do it again and I don’t know what I was thinking. It is such bullshit. Teachers should have psychological screenings and get paid more. I don’t know why more adults don’t hold teachers and adults in charge of children accountable. This is precisely why I don’t want to have children because you cannot trust the adults in the world to have a moral compass or the instinct to do the right thing when the time calls for it.

[@courtney104]

miles, the shots of just the chair KILL ME 😭😭😭😭😆

[@alexisntquiet]

No that first story is horrible. As someone who worked with kids I can not imagine blaming my mistakes on a child especially such a serious mistake. That was a deliberate choice to turn a kid with behavioral issues into a scape goat. I really liked this show, but Miles laughing about someone almost killing a child and then ruining another kids life is so upsetting. I really hope he takes these comments into account and rethinks making excuses for behavior like that.

[@fruitgh0st]

the first one is not acceptable, she wasn't even in the wrong in the first place and she decided to wield the police state against this child. for why?

[@Nabinomic]

First person is absolutely disgusting. That expelled kid is going to hear that for the rest of their life from their parents.

[@peacechickification]

Especially because that bad behaviour likely stems from not great stuff happening at home for him.

[@goyzaa]

Rewatching the beginning bc the “daddy’s gotta have a feast“ to “I’m alone in the studio” is perfect

[@davidpugh5826]

“Lillian” needs to be fired from her job. Why throw away the epi pen? Btw that’s what she originally said “Evan” was doing, throwing away classmates’ belongings. And then the has the balls to call herself a VICTIM for having witnessed it? This is insane. This call isn’t about a kid that acted out - it’s about an adult that almost let a child die through negligence.

[@destinygarver4376]

Just popping in to say don’t throw away epi-pens even if they’re expired until you have a replacement 😅 as someone who has carried one their entire life, the medicine just loses potency as the device gets older, so a few months after the expiration date it could still be able to save a life. The parents paid for it and the teacher should’ve sent it home when the parents brought in a replacement for them to dispose of it.

[@ediedoodle]

I thought it was common knowledge to not throw away essential medicine I imagine having expired EpiPen in the mean time is better than none at all ?!?

[@ireney748]

As someone who is getting my master's in mental health counseling, I have to say that the first caller was beyond concerning. Miles, I love this show, and I think it's hilarious and harmless, but I worry that you're taking on calls -- or really, cases -- that are just out of your depth and capacity to deal with. If Lillian came into my office and expressed this to me as her therapist, I would have to file a report for child abuse as a mandated reporter. Lillian not only lacks empathy for a struggling CHILD, but she lacks remorse from her actions, joking about 'I'm the victim' and 'I'm not a bad person'. Clearly, this woman has some level of internalized homophobia to be calling a struggling child "evil" and a "queen". As previous comments have stated, this child is going to carry this incident for the rest of his life and it was all a lie. Again, I think this is something that was way out of your depth to deal with, and I worry what this person will do next after being 'absolved' of this incident. People like this do not get to walk through life without consequence.

[@pearlkennedy9446]

When she said evil child I thought they were biting and hitting without stopping and no parent help. But he was just a normal kid saying some mean things and ripping books??(I’ve been around lots of littles and it’s a normal stage to want to rip things like books that you have to guide them through)

[@pearlkennedy9446]

I understand struggling with a child who’s a constant behavioral problem, but how she handled it was horrendous. I left working at a daycare cuz they would not get the multiple kids with behavioral issues help nor encourage the parents to get them help. One behavioral issue let alone multiple along with handling an entire class of toddlers is too much.

[@maggiemcgee123]

As someone who works with kids and has handled my fair share of difficult situations, I was so upset by the first caller I had to stop listening and skip ahead. So many wrongs here and such an impact on this boy’s life purely because she was tired of/bad at handling his behavior. That boy needed HELP, not judgment and cruelty. Prioritia out of whack. Deeply dangerous to that little girl. Yikesing myself into the sun.

[@1610Lulu]

yea it was actually hard to listen to

[@withinsanityy]

Can we PLS get Shayne Topp on this show? I need to hear his advice to some of these chaotic ass calls xD

[@adventureinthesea]

That teacher for sure has more damn issues than that child could possibly have...

[@proteaoaxaca5204]

Any person, regardless if there a teacher or not, any person that blames another party for their own actions is a red flag and you gotta RUN away! The normalcy of manipulation is astonishing, WE have to break the cycle & the adults that we choose to have around our children should be acting the same with or without other adults around supervising. We have got to do better for our kids.

[@Aserrano_678]

Miles really had the opportunity to set the first caller straight on how horrible she treated that student who clearly needed help. Hope the school or parents find out and that child is helped, horrible to leave a child with that level of guilt and trauma only to make it a joke..yikes!

[@loannadominique]

first confession was a HARD listen and I definitely had to keep skipping. That poor child fr.

[@sighhAYSzG5AG]

That teacher shouldn't be throwing out medications at all, and then she got a child expelled for her mistake. She shouldn't be a teacher responsible for children. If that little girl died, she would be held responsible criminally. I agree that the parents shouldn't forget about the epi pens expiring, but the expired medication is supposed to be returned to the parents. I have an allergy kid, and this gives me a ton of pause and paranoia that my child's school is going to throw her stuff out, and she could potentially die from exposure.

[@Queen_Ati]

idk i think that first caller set themselves up to be the victim in a true story lifetime documentary.

[@adrianpink8144]

So a five year old is “evil” for ripping pages out of a book and giving fashion advice, but an adult putting their own student in danger and gaslighting a child into taking the blame is perfectly fine? Girl. Please tell me you’re not a teacher anymore 😬

[@spiercephotography]

Not defending the teacher, but he was also going into students backpacks and lockers and throwing out their things.

[@adrianpink8144]

@@spiercephotographyyeah it is shitty of him to throw away other kids’ art, it’s just wild to me how much worse the adult behaved while still referring to a child as evil.

[@imbomi7845]

I can't get over the kindergartener confession that I ended up turning out the others. I need an update on how Evan is doing...

[@Rachelholly3000]

Caller 1 is one of the many reasons I'm solidified in my decision to homeschool.

[@tdgonz4532]

Wow I’m disgusted with that first caller!

[@yaitsasha]

1st caller is laughing a lil too much lol

[@Anthonyeatspoo]

Children emulate the behavior they see and receive. Imagine what that kindergartener may have been experiencing at home to be displaying those behaviors. Maybe his parents threw away all of his art and he was acting out. Maybe negative behavior is the only way he gets attention at home. Maybe there’s a toxic, abusive environment at home. There’s so much to consider and explore before labeling a child as “evil”, especially one that’s so young. Being a teacher, especially to young children, should mean interacting with your students with empathy and an attempt at understanding. Even if he didn’t do anything strictly actionable, were there any attempts at teacher-parent conferences to try to explore any underlying causes for the behavioral issues? Or even to witness the parent-child interactions to look for any signs of abuse/neglect/mistreatment/etc.? Children behaving badly is frequently a cry for attention and/or help. It sounds as if this child was failed by everyone involved in this situation, especially given how the caller was laughing and defending herself and showing no remorse. I’m not religious but did grow up being raised as a Christian and in order to be absolved of your sins you need to actually regret and repent them. This woman admitted herself that she doesn’t regret getting a literal 5 year old expelled over something he didn’t do, and something that was incredibly irresponsible for her to have done in the first place. Epipens are still good for quite some time even after their expiration date. While it would be best to have a non-expired epipen on hand and is absolutely the parents’ responsibility to make sure that is available for their child, the one that she threw away was almost guaranteed to still be good and effective, especially given it was needed only a few months after its expiration date. Having a past-date epipen is better than no epipen in any emergency situation. This entire call shows an extreme lack of judgement, morals, and empathy. I am actually shocked at her confession and the way it was delivered with no regret whatsoever, and an underlying tone of “this is funny”. She should have honestly taken that secret to her grave.

[@intheyellowcorner]

The first call is so wrong. So problematic. Please tell me shes still not teaching anymore.

[@Seanologues]

Guantanamo Bay couldn’t water board that first story out of me.

[@miabolte306]

Miles i think you have an ethical and legal duty to get first caller fired

[@ten-hx2xi]

yeah i wouldnt usually agree w this but w kids its different imo ❤ if you handle it discreetly miles, a discreet card and spoken segment would be nice to let us know❤

[@emilyannis5794]

I empathize with the first caller like Miles said....but when she was talking about dealing with the child's problem behaviors...I was kind of like....isn't that your job though?? Maybe he should have been in a different school - but he obviously was not....sooooo....idk. Blah Blah. Also maybe she could have just shown her boss the email from the parents saying they'd bring another epi pen in? IDK. BLah blah

[@aprilgranzow8716]

Yeah it’s part of her job to advocate for students to get extra resources if they are available. Not to chase them out of the school

[@clarawebster02468]

the view of the empty chair is insane

[@timscharf423]

The first caller is just straight up, a bad person. I am honestly kind of upset at Miles for indulging her. I'm not saying you have to chew her out, but she needs to be told in no uncertain terms that what she did was truly awful. It's absolutely nightmarish what she did to "the bad kid", but it was also incredibly irresponsible what she did to the kid with the allergy. (Not claiming to be an expert by any stretch, but you should absolutely not throw out an EpiPen, especially without a replacement, or any meds just because they are expired. Expired for meds typically just means less than 100% potency and obviously they need to be disposed of properly. I believe many pharmacies have take back programs). Not to mention the total lack of remorse. Yikes.

[@emerson1998]

"I've got Secretsss... CHARLIE DIMELIO IS THE ZODIAC KILLER" well, that's added to my mental sound effects that will be FIRING off throughout my days

[@ethelf.7807]

glad that everyones on the same page about the first caller 😅 that was a pretty intense confession

[@emmybear372]

I literally had to skip first story gross.

[@um2913]

I’m glad all of us think miles was in the wrong for not seriously telling the first woman that she’s in the wrong. I know he doesn’t like being the bad guy but then he shouldn’t take these calls if he can’t be brave enough to blatantly tell them the truth. As an educator ur in the wrong. And I can’t agree with you at all. Edit: “don’t say poor kid” -Miles. Literally miles he’s not even 7 yet. This kid psychologically hasn’t even developed a personality yet. Imagine it happens to ur kid miles. I wonder what you’ll do then if this woman got ur kid expelled. Is that what it’ll take? Wow. Making big mistakes like this is how people learn yet she said she doesn’t regret it. SHE HASNT LEARNED. good god miles is disappointing sometimes.

[@elliottsalibi]

this wasn’t the entire call this is edited im sure miles set lilian straight & just cut it out for time. i doubt he would do something like that purposely.

[@Kristenmarie04]

Love the show and I agree that making mistakes is how people learn, but that doesn’t mean that the first caller should have been essentially given a pat on the back like “Oops you made a mistake by framing a five year old for attempted murder but you won’t do it again, right?”. Like I get that the show is supposed to be generally light and fun, but I wish Lillian had been put in her place more. She said multiple times that she did not feel bad. And the only thing that made her feel a little bad was in the future when Evan says he didn’t do something that his parents won’t believe him. That is the ONLY thing she felt bad about. Lillian says she won’t ever do that again, and that’s important. But her attitude sucks and she has a long way to go. She needs to learn how to take responsibility for her actions, especially now that she has her own children who she will hopefully also teach to take responsibility for their actions. Also, Miles and the caller really harping on the parents of that little girl here for them not strapping an epi pen to their child. I agree that the parents are accountable here as well for the safety of their child, but that should not necessarily excuse the teacher either because schools should have that kind of life saving equipment. Everyone wants to point the blame at someone else instead of taking accountability, you hate to see it. Edit: Again, I know the show is for funsies. But as someone who was raised Catholic, to be absolved of your sins you not only have to confess but you have to feel remorse for your sins and do penance. Which in the church is usually a bunch of Hail Mary’s and Our Fathers, but I think the first caller should have to somehow make amends to Evan or learn how to actually help children with behavioral problems.

[@ashleysmith8125]

the unhinged solo energy here is great, Perfect even

[@ThatBruja]

Thank you TryGuys for bringing Miles into our lives! Genuinely one of my favorite people on the internet!! Miles never fails to crack me up and just make my week better ❤

[@cass3088]

Very troubling and concerning, the first call, especially as an educator. Not funny at all, just upsetting .. given that this is a comedy podcast and this episode is sort of one long bit (a bit that we’ve all come to love as listeners) the air of laughter over an adult saying they don’t regret actual life ruining decisions & still speaking so negatively about this child years later with little remorse or intention to do the right thing… a real bummer… absolving sins in a fake confession booth becomes much less funny when said sin has real systemic consequences that affect the most vulnerable.❤️

[@monet1578]

Lillian is literally horrible it’s not even funny ,I work with young kids and can’t imagine someone like this being around kids

[@peacechickification]

Sadly I can because my parents were teachers and they were similar pieces of shit. I guess are. I just haven’t talked to them in 10 years. I feel bad for her kids. Calling her 3 year old lazy :(

[@monet1578]

@@peacechickification I was going to comment on that too it was so weird, praying for your peace though nobody deserves that

[@TheShauNanigans]

I find it ironic that Miles sh*ts on big brands at the end, but TryPod takes a brand deal with Better Help almost every episode despite the fact that people in the comments have said time and time again why Better Help isn't a good company to do business with.

[@TheShauNanigans]

Everything he says is true, to be fair.

[@annagracecook]

he’s no longer employed with them though so that’s definitely not his call

[@pantomimegoose]

I think it's even worse that he has taken on Draft Kings as a sponsor on his channel when gambling has one of (if not the highest) rate of suicidality among addictions. I was really surprised to see him doing those ad reads.

[@TheShauNanigans]

@@annagracecookIt was when he was the person in charge of the department and they are still accepting the sponsors week after week. Clearly no one involved cares enough to seek a different sponsor. Never mind the data mining, underpaid therapists, intentionally pairing people with counselors they know they won't work with, not doing enough thorough background checks on their counselors, etc. I've seen so many people explain why Better Help isn't a great company. It is also a very simple search. They've had plenty of sponsors over the years. I find it hard to believe they couldn't find another company to fill the Better Help gap. I think less of anyone who uses them as a sponsor, not just the Try Guys. I'm glad he doesn't use them for his personal channel, and I hope he never starts.

[@TheShauNanigans]

@@pantomimegooseFor his personal podcast, I wonder how much say he has in the sponsors being that he works under Headgum as the overall company for that. But I agree, that sponsor is less than ideal.

[@choucobra]

That first caller is the reason why I've disliked teachers my whole life. When I was 5, a classmate went through my backback in my cubbie and stole my Tiger keychain from Winnie the Pooh. The teacher didn't believe it was mine, and the principal didn't believe me. They called my mom and the first thing they said was, "your daughter is a liar and we are going to expel her if she doesn't confess." My mom had to bring in my sister's Tiger to prove to the school that she bought matching pairs for my sister and I and that my classmate was the liar. Did anything happen to her? No. Did I ever get an apology? Nope. People like her should not be teachers. I hope that kid got the help he needed and I hope karma is real.

[@littlebean2494]

What Evan did was mean to his classmates, but as a teacher that isn’t so bad. It is just something he can work on as a kindergartner. Other commenters hit the mark of many other things she did wrong. It’s crazy.