Francis Fukuyama: 'Putin will become father of Ukrainian nation' | SpectatorTV

[@ToneLearnerGuy]

This guy gets his information straight from CNN

[@eddierieswijk7056]

Fukuyama's predictions are usually wrong.

[@socrateos]

I agree with his prediction. I believe people will eventually choose Liberal Democracy (Rule of Laws and Limited Government) over other political systems.

[@geraldgeaf1292]

You can tell as Victor Orban was his first example of a dictator. He skipped passed the Macron who has explicitly stated that 'he would never let the French to vote on EU and if they did and voted to exit that he will ignore them" He missed Van Der Crazy - non-elected but going to DICTATE that ELECTED leaders IGNORE the laws of their respective countries and ignore the constitutions of their countries.

[@JackoJ15]

This guy seems great at getting things wrong.

[@andyyygane4713]

That's because he doesn't pay attention to details. For instance, he talks about the Russian nationalist state not ensuring rights for other ethnic groups, when in fact many ethnic groups within Russia do have language rights and often a kind of territorial autonomy. So this is not the main problem in Russia, which is in fact the lack of media independence and a real democratic opposition.

[@stevehall9333]

Like so many so called "experts"....

[@timc5768]

...very funny; that's just what i was thinking. So in future, following Fukuyama' s wisdom ('End of History' fame), Hitler is to be regarded as a democrat.

[@jim2376]

@Anglo Fyrd You're great at posting an erroneous opinion. Fukuyama is mentally light years ahead of you; you're an internet blowhard. A mere internet gasbag.

[@jim2376]

@@andyyygane4713 Are you a pimp for Tsar Vlade the Poisoner? A "kind of territorial autonomy"!?! Yeah, right. Memo to Andyyy: Putinstan is a dictatorship. A kind of autonomy!?! Wake up, dupe.

[@peterazlac1739]

How does Zelensky banning opposition left-wing political Parties and their media as well as the Russian language media and Church fit with the claim that Ukrainians are defending freedom or for that matter the influence of the Neo-Nazis on the army and Government that prevented the implementation of the Minsk Accord and promoted the genocide in Donbas? I was with your guest up until this point when he destroyed all he had said previously on liberalism.

[@WhiteWolf126]

Putin shills like you are so bad. It's standard procedure for the state to take control of media and radiostations during WAR. It's like this in all countries. Who'd want to have someone spouting literal lies and demoralizing propaganda if there's a war in the streets? The answer is no country.

[@davidrichardson5482]

Not only was he wrong about the future, he's wrong about the past.

[@williamgianopulos636]

Great insight. How do these people keep circulating, in the face of so many incorrect assumptions and predictions? Francis is to political science what Paul Krugman is to the internet.

[@amraceway]

@@williamgianopulos636 You are wrong.

[@phamhuyphu7517]

He's doesn't have the Capacity to understand the Presence. Forget about the Past or Future.

[@alexandercampbell0001]

What do you mean, history ended, remember?

[@socrateos]

How do you know "he was wrong about the future" when the future is not here yet?

[@DanHowardMtl]

Why would anyone listen to Fukuyama about anything anymore?

[@christopherrobbins9985]

I'll take Mearsheimer over Fukuyama six days a week and twice on Sunday. Fukuyama's sounds as if he is talking out of his rear end most of the time.

[@MaisieDaisyUpsadaisy]

You are willing to take structural realism, a theory that has practically zero explanatory power (look at Mearsheimer’s and Walt’s books and articles on US foreign policy, they don’t utilize neorealism because it does not tell you anything)? I would put both in the bin, as Mearsheiner has developed a cheap theory and is completely unable to engage in basic foreign policy analysis.

[@FuuuckOffff]

@@MaisieDaisyUpsadaisy Mearsheimer is still closer to the mark than Francis. Neoliberal advocates of democratic peace theory have lost ground to realists as a consequence of this conflict. My understanding of Mearsheimer was that he is increasingly closer to neoclassical realism than neorealism, though I may be mistaken on that front.

[@123axel123]

@@MaisieDaisyUpsadaisy I wish Mearsheimer would develop his theory further, but he certainly has predictive power when it comes to regional/global powers and adjacent small states. Besides realism and idealism are opposite. Stating that Fukuyama's idealism (End of history and American values forever) is predictive is ridiculous

[@deankruse2891]

Mearsheimer talks about a world that doesn’t exist, his ideas about geo politics don’t match reality

[@123axel123]

@@rashid8646 What worth has a theory if it is not predictive?

[@arphaksad01]

What about Trudeau and his assault on the truckers? That's something that CCP did not HK

[@olympiahendrix4392]

Don worry about Trudeau. Compliments of the EU parlament.....🤣🤣🤣Enjoy kzbin.info/www/bejne/aoCXoKKbbK6mbqs Even better in Croatian,,,,,,😅😅😅😂😂😂 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXOwnoSOdrl9hqM

[@Frohicky1]

Since the end of history there's been an awful lot to talk about.

[@theredtomato]

All you guys making reference to his book really ought to actually read it. He doesn't say what you think he says at all.

[@Frohicky1]

@@theredtomato I have, it's a good book, and also a good start for a joke.

[@alexkat8297]

@@Frohicky1 Most people don't understand FF's main argument regarding the so-called the end of history. He claimed that the search for the best form of government was over following the collapse of communism, with liberal capitalist democracy winning the argument. Now pray tell, even today is there a serious alternative? Putin's or China's authoritarian ethnonationalism & statist capitalism? North Korea or Venezuela style corrupt socialism? Even people living in these countries would vote against the regime if they had the option (and free media) and many of them actually vote with their feet. So before dismissing him as irrelevant, think what he really says rather than what you think he says.

[@Frohicky1]

@@alexkat8297 I have a few comments. China is doing quite well. Lberal capitalist democracy covers a lot of systems. There is no best system, but better systems for the material circumstances you are in.

[@alexkat8297]

@@Frohicky1 China is not doing quite well economically, if you follow closely what's going on with Evergrande. We are already past peak China. And that's just the economics, politically things are even worse, eg with endless lockdowns. Yes, there are many sub-categories of liberal, capitalist democracy, how does that negate FF's argument? Re material circumstances, we are talking about the real world we live in, not some imaginary utopia.

[@AnthonyConstable]

For someone who professes an international outlook, Fukuyama consistently fails to escape a U.S. political and cultural bias.

[@guydreamr]

I'm not so sure about that - right off the bat, Fukuyama defines liberalism not in the American sense, but that of the European as protection of property rights and limitations on government. Next, regarding the distinction between democracy and liberalism, he speaks of Hungary in the context of the European experience, rather than the US. And so on. If anything, he shows a European bias by paying homage to European ideas around political theory.

[@stephenhunt_author]

Wow, the author of the most wrong book of all time on what the future holds, still holding forth about what the future holds.

[@konreww]

Give him 600 more years and he will be right

[@stephenhunt_author]

@@konreww - It'll be the 'Free Mars Colony Movement; vs the 'Earth Firsters', by then, I reckon.

[@afriedli]

He's a professional pundit being interviewed by a professional journalist. The former feels no obligation to make pronouncements that have any connection with reality, and the latter only cares whether there is an interesting narrative arc, i.e. the flim-flam vaguely constitutes a 'story'.

[@johannagel4520]

@@stephenhunt_author Be more specific. What does the future hold according to you? And why is his account wrong?

[@GM-oi4vg]

lol at 18:22 he's wrong abt Russia, it has better harmony among ethnic groups than France, Uk & US,.

[@ezbody]

Well, if you ask the Russians, they will tell you they are better at everything. And yet, the only thing they are good at is lying -- lying about everything, it's a centuries old tradition.

[@oaktowndaddyg]

President Dwight Eisenhower definition of an intellectual: "An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."

[@joeroganpodfantasy42]

Was he a liberal?

[@woke2woke153]

I don't know why Fukayama thinks the American electoral college is strange. America is a federation of self-governing states, not a single state. America's states are not mere provinces. As I understand it, the electoral college was devised to deal with that reality, and to help prevent low population rural states being dominated by high population urban states.

[@woke2woke153]

He also seems to have the VERY strange idea that the purpose of 'democracy' is the appropriation and redistribution of OTHER people's wealth, all in the name of the great god of EQUALITY! How can you be so famous and at the same time so completely wrong?

[@olympiahendrix4392]

It is a good one too. When there are elections in Canada. You know who won before Vancouver votes...so what is the point of voting? Where does all the money go? to the East, the rest can eat grass.

[@woke2woke153]

@@olympiahendrix4392 Secede?

[@olympiahendrix4392]

@@woke2woke153 some are thinking of it.... but Canadians have an ovine side to them. Look at the thing they voted for. All the Soros boys come with that sex appeal...I call it the new porn politics.... Trudeau in pijamas, Zelensky dancing on heels... Macron and his grandma. You know the type....🤣🤣🤣PS how many years did Letourneau spent in jails BTW

[@jorgemario1586]

Russians are not fighting against Ucrania, just against a part of it.

[@freeheeler09]

Russia, with their genocidal bombing Ukrainian cities to rubble has turned every person living in Ukraine, as well as every European, into enemies. The world should have learned from America’s idiotic adventures in Vietnam and Iraq that you cannot win hearts and minds with carpet bombing, and you cannot save cities or countries by destroying them

[@ezbody]

Of course, genius, they don't have enough soldiers to fight against all of it, simultaneously.

[@jorgemario1586]

@@ezbody go to School, Lear some mathematics...

[@ezbody]

@@jorgemario1586 No

[@iratepirate3896]

Looks like history's no longer ended.

[@c.geezer8753]

I want to read a book titled, The End of Academic Sophistry.

[@olympiahendrix4392]

Ill be ahead of the line, in front of you....lolol

[@RM-iu6mm]

“Massive redistribution” is the opposite of classic liberalism or a basic respect for private property.

[@anton7354]

Yep, that strikes me as a clear contradiction.

[@funnythat9956]

"“Massive redistribution” is the opposite of classic liberalism or a basic respect for private property." Who owns the land? Why do they own that land? If you go back you will find that those who own it, at some point in history, stole it from somebody else. In that wider sense massive redistribution IS basic respect for private property.

[@RM-iu6mm]

@@funnythat9956 War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength

[@anton7354]

@@funnythat9956 No, it's not. In no sense murdering a person can be considered a respect for that person's life.

[@katharinaopel5989]

Massive redistribution has been at the core of the liberal revolutions. Secularization, anti-feudalism. I guess the iterated resets of the asset structure (wars, revolution, general crises) are a prerequisite of the liberal-democratic-capitalist system.

[@winnywin]

Love this interview. Thank you Spectator. Reading the comments - I think I'm in the minority. Some people seem to be in favour of free speech - as long as it agrees with their world view.

[@waterkingdavid]

That seems to be a worldwide phenomenon and the Ukraine is no exception.

[@abond311]

In favor of free speech . . . idiots identify themselves without hesitation.

[@Clairewithvertigo]

True. Seems to be human nature

[@DeusExMau5]

After reading the comments I didn't find any that supported censorship or condemn freedom of expression, most of the comments only show a great disagreement with the argument exposed by fukuyama. Of course I didn't read all the comments.

[@robertaspindale2531]

I'm amazed than Sam Leith doesn't question Fukuyama on any of his numerous falsehoods.

[@barbaraseymour3437]

Like which ones?

[@FuuuckOffff]

Sam Leith has a job through nepotism, every article he's written has been appallingly poorly informed.

[@ballerblocks]

@@barbaraseymour3437 everything Francis says, end of history to start with, and redistricting by the democrats and not the republicans.

[@johannagel4520]

I'm amazed you're unable to name a single one.

[@robertaspindale2531]

@@johannagel4520 (1) Fukuyama is critical of Victor Orban, who is accused of gerrymandering. This is and has long been a common practice in the USA, as the ridiculous shape of constituencies shows. Leith fails to question him on this.

[@mistymoor7114]

You cant build a nation around race and identity??? Ask the japanese that, and the Chinese and India and Africa, race is an integral part of their identity. And generally speaking, before the age of America nations were not built they evolved, they grew naturally.

[@guydreamr]

Fukuyama then clarified that statement, going on to say you can indeed build a nation around race, religion and so forth, but that often leads to its own set of problems, as the historical examples of Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, the religious wars in Europe, etc. so vividly illustrate.

[@arphaksad01]

It makes perfect sense for people that share same identity like language, culture etc. to want to coalesce into a larger entity.

[@herewardthewake5433]

@CipiRipi00 None of what you wrote is true. It's so untrue that it's just weird.

[@herewardthewake5433]

@CipiRipi00 The Frankish nation evolved in opposition to the non-Christian Germanic tribes surrounding them, the Italians to the south, the English to the north, and Muslim Iberia to the south. Not in opposition to the Jews.

[@herewardthewake5433]

@CipiRipi00 Oh look, you're a revisionist too. Nice word games.

[@ReasonableForseeability]

He lost my respect when he wrongly characterised Trump.

[@katharinaopel5989]

He gained my respect when I reread his 90s remarks about the free market system, one of its advantages being that it keeps Thymos-controlled types like Trump busy and off politics, where they would be far too dangerous and disruptive.

[@eleveneleven572]

As soon as he bundled up Trump with others who are illiberal I knew I was listening to an ideologue. Trump created jobs, increased wages, started no wars, reached out to other countries, got rid of the Obama/Biden migrant cages on the border, started to free black people from prison that Clinton locked up, gave America energy security and created a thriving economy. Since then the Democrats have cut jobs, opened borders, a disorderly retreat from Afghanistan whilst arming the Taliban with $billions of armaments, caused fuel insecurity, food shortages and caused a war in Ukraine. The world is now divided as never before in my lifetime.....Russia, China, India, Pakistan, many ASEAN, south American, African and Arabic countries, Turkey plus broad sectors of western society have had enough and are taking appropriate action.

[@ezbody]

What do you mean, Trump was the worst best president ever!

[@freeandcriticalthinker4431]

Wish Francis would come out and tell us WHO started and pushed much of the deregulation he mentioned? Dodd Frank ring a bell? Admin of the USA during 1992-1996?

[@olympiahendrix4392]

Clinton deregulated banks which gave us 2008. Obama left the mess. Biden does not see the mess, he cant find it...lol

[@klauda7346]

He wrote a lot of nonsense 30 years ago and helped create the neostalinistic woke ideologie in the US universites.

[@johannagel4520]

How is he responsible for woke?

[@klauda7346]

@@johannagel4520 I think, that the deconstruction by Foucault, Barthes, etc. was a important step forward in philosophy. But then it was used by the critical theorists, to deconstruct commun sense. So Fukuyama declared the end of history, misregarding, that communism was still alive. Without this epistomenological crisis it wouldnt have been possible to promote neostalinist pseudo-science like the climat-religion. I appologise for my poor English.

[@freeheeler09]

Um, laugh, you may not “believe” in our growing anthropogenic climate crisis because it conflicts with your ideology. But, science is based on observation and testing of actual, physical world phenomena. 2021 will be seen as the year when the brutal facts of the climate crisis transcended narrow minded ideology

[@ezbody]

"Woke" mostly exists in the heads of deluded stable geniuses that listen to the right wing propaganda nonsense. In fact, that's how we know you are listening to the right wing gibberish, because no one else, but them, is talking about it. LOL I have yet to meet a single person who talks about being "woke", except for the called "Conservative Christians".

[@buildmotosykletist1987]

He's actually talking about removing the rights and freedom of people to speak.

[@amraceway]

No he is not although in your case it would"nt be a such bad idea.

[@PrincipledUncertainty]

Another swing and a miss, Francis

[@Hladovina]

If the essence of liberalism is that all living people have rights then US, UK and EU are not liberal. I would love to see how Fukuyama would answer why residents of Puerto Rico and other U.S. territories do not have voting rights. Or how does UK and US' forcible expulsion of Chagos islanders from their homeland fit into the liberal essence. Also, how does the EU' 12 year long support for mafia regime in Serbia fir into it's "all humans have equal rights" slogan.

[@tedzehnder961]

This guy is all over the place. First he wants individual rights and the rule of law but then he wants governments to redistribute wealth from people who earn it to people with there hands out that don`t want to organize their lives This guy is nuts to think that the democratic party is going to take money from the rich? Middle class always gets their standard of living cut to support the poor. He brought up Scandinavia which has slowly back tracking on generous benefits for everybody.Also those countries have more of a work ethic than the USA at the lower economic stratus. Just listen to him! Like I said, he wants to live in utopia or nirvana when the human condition has evil in it that will always try to game the system.

[@amraceway]

He is right and you are wrong.

[@carynmartin6053]

That's a realists view

[@123axel123]

You are so right Ted. He uses the US definition of liberalism which includes everyone that is in favor of mainstream American values.

[@123axel123]

@@amraceway Just declaring your opinion in a one-liner is typical for your breed of leftwinger. Why don't you address where you disagree with Ted instead.

[@amraceway]

@@123axel123 Ted obviously is either hard of hearimg or didn't listen to Francis. His whole point is that it is a balancing act between the rights of an individual which is liberalism and democracy which is the will of the majority. Politics 101 Why are so many Americans paranoid about sharimg?.

[@nahumhabte6210]

I dont think Ukrine will exist by 2023

[@ashthebash66]

The end of history unfortunately hasn't meant the end of fukuyama. The truth/problem is that he has the perfect political outlook for academia so he will just keep going

[@joenichols3901]

"Liberalism by itself produces too much inequality" the problem is never inequality. It is not a problem that people like Musk are entrusted with capital allocation. That's a good thing. The problem is poverty. That is unacceptable

[@markmartin2292]

I thought his new book was called Okay, It Wasn’t the End of History

[@johnjones6601]

Hahaha

[@WilliamMallinson]

Fukuyama, realising later the weakness of his ‘end of history’ theory, then decided that the answer to understanding the world’s problems lay in ‘masculine values and biology’, writing that ‘female chimps have relationships, while male chimps practise Realpolitik.’ Perhaps he is the missing link?

[@briget3456]

I have long been an admirer of Fukuyamas writing but hearing him speak leaves me confused. Belief and reality are not the same and irrespective of how you define liberalism societies tend to reach natural limits when challenged by insurmountable inside and or outside pressures. It's easy to be "liberal" when you or your society are not under threat. It is also easier to be "liberal" at another's expense. Within the realm of this "liberal belief system", the victors will always pretend to be "liberals" and thus righteous despite distinctly deceptive and "un-liberal" methods to reach their goals. The methods seemingly justify the end and history can be and is re-written to justify the outcome.

[@AKAHEIZER]

I disagree with your "confusion", of course liberal societies have the potential to overcome their internal conflicts, that are inherent to a society which is no longer bound together by ethnical, religious, or political conformity, diverse societies. The State has to provide the political and civil framework's were this conflicts can be resolved without the fear of sliding into right out violence. The solutions coming out of this process, than had to be translated into legislation and finally into Law. The Government than has the right to enforce this Laws, but is itself held accountable to the Laws, the Government itself is constraint by Institutionalised structures from inside, a second political assembly (in federal states maybe a local state assembly), the constitution, which itself has to be protected and interpreted by a depoliticised constitutional court. It is by far the most successful, and I honestly believe although the only political framework that is providing protection of individual rights against the rule of the majority vote.

[@joechan3388]

@@AKAHEIZER Liberalism is about individualism and me first, such nature is cognitively in conflict with a society that requires individuals to give up their right in order to overcome their internal conflicts for the greater good. You are praising collectivism but you label the merits of collectivism as liberalism. It is dishonesty and shameful.

[@freeandcriticalthinker4431]

There was a lot of contradictions and hypocrisy spouted here. Something I am highly allergic to. Probably why I hate ideology so much

[@purikurix]

Hearing Fukuyama I doubt that he really is a defender of liberalism or is persuaded by it; especially classical liberalism.

[@radiozelaza]

Scandinavian socialdemocrats did get a little too illiberal often, that's why they lost power

[@adamwalker1725]

I love to reference Fukuyama's work in almost all of my essays because of how much contempt there is for his way of thinking, in my 'prestigious' University at least.

[@RonanTOC]

you sir are a true gentleman

[@kikoexteberria8668]

Hahahaha brilliant

[@domzbu]

His way of thinking is relentlessly debunked by reality.

[@paulstewart4195]

For good reason.he is a clown🤡

[@kingstarscream3807]

@@domzbu Yeah maybe but I give him some credit for simply having an independent way of thinking.

[@TheOrphicLyre]

High taxation isn't respectful of individual rights. It's inevitably towards excessive centralised power and against the individual's ability to make decisions in his environment.

[@cainsy8124]

Because I'm interested in history I ended this video

[@casteretpollux]

Hahaha

[@tadhgcronin175]

The notion that a democracy has to be liberal to be a democracy is absurd.

[@tonyks4777]

Is this the guy who talked about the end of History, how liberalism has finally won over all other ideals..

[@oseikofi4121]

Yes, it's Fukuyama. A fraud.

[@vicicooper4720]

So glad the dichotomy between liberalism and nations was discussed.

[@monkerud2108]

Good conversation:)

[@kingKong-fd7wm]

Lost credibility for me the last 5 minutes of this show.

[@MoranM]

I normally respect Fukuyama's views even if I don't always agree with them. However, his parroting of claims of 'right wing illiberalism' ignores the fact that the biggest threat to enlightenment liberalism comes from the Left at the moment and not the Right. Also, his talk of inequalities suffered by women, black, gays and trans ignores (i) the fact that by many metrics some of these groups have better outcomes - e.g. incomes of gay men, life expectancy for women and (ii) the conditional probabilities that often account for some, if not all the differences in outcomes, e.g. women's earnings, fatal interactions between the police and black people in the US. Inequality is the natural state of the world. Fukuyama appears to acknowledge this. Arguably, it is illiberal to intervene in the individual choices, cultures and lifestyles that inevitably result in inequality.

[@hmq9052]

A gay is more successful than you

[@MoranM]

@@hmq9052 Lots of them are. And I'm fine with that where they have worked harder and/or were more talented. The standard explanatory reason is, of course, that they are less likely to have children so can devote more time to their careers, but I've never seen an attempt to confirm this (i.e. by comparing with childless heterosexual men with similar socio-economic backgrounds). Even if being gay conferred some other innate difference that improved their earning potential my reaction would be 'good luck to them'. We see this in ethnic differences (bone density, structure of feet, height) and if someone can benefit from that difference, great. I see no point in resenting them for it.

[@hmq9052]

@@MoranM Earning power may be linked to likeability and mixing skills. Something the gays - and women- do quite well. That said at the higher earning level it pays much more to be a psychopath. So it sort of evens itself out.

[@MoranM]

@@hmq9052 I wouldn't argue against that. The main problem is quantifying those characteristics in in order to check whether you're correct. Condensing complicated psychological attributes into a single number and then applying that number to a linear model (e.g. twice the sociability yields twice the earnings differential) is obviously a massive oversimplification of reality. But then, those last 5 words describe the entirety of the humanities.

[@MermaidTyrone]

Too much perceived inequality ill always lead to social upheaval and collapse no matter if you like it or not. People will never like to feel like nothing, so they will revolt. That is why even in ruling class interest to redistribute some wealth in order not to piss off working class. Liberalism and far right feed each other in cycles, when liberalism becomes too elite weighted, far right come to power and so on.

[@padraigadhastair4783]

Hold on Francis, what do you think the actual democratic party is trying to do in the US? Stay in power as long as they can, just like Horban in Hungary.

[@kingstarscream3807]

Fukuyama's English is very good.

[@stevendouglas3860]

Fuka always Wrong on his views

[@frankebert4474]

amazing interview. as a german things seem to sound, resonate and seem to be interpreted by me very different than the recent comments. i do not find his views on liberalism strange and if you look to sweden (and also in germany) there is huge taxation to redistribute the money (at least for the "not superrich" - we have some shortcommings there....)

[@123axel123]

You live in the past. Sweden has more billionaires per capita than any other European country/ No wealth tax and no inheritance tax

[@frankebert4474]

@@123axel123 Thanks for the information. Nevertheless to my information taxes are pretty much above european standards and thereby there is a signifuicant redistribution of wealth created by this - or am i wrong on this too ?

[@123axel123]

@@frankebert4474 Yes and no. Income taxes are high but pretty much start at ~31% and quite quickly move to ~51%. However, the key issue is that capital gains tax is max 25%. Like the US, if you start a company and don't sell shares there will never be any tax, not even inheritance tax when you die. So labour is taxed high, but not capital. Maybe that is the recipe for a fairly stable society, but it is not exactly fair. And this Fuckuyama calls classic liberalism.

[@frankebert4474]

@@123axel123 Thanks for your take on that.Best regards from northern germany

[@BrownOpsLeak]

Thanks for great content slava ruski

[@jimbrown5268]

Ah the King of getting it wrong. You'd think you'd have learn by now.

[@martinjohnson5498]

I wasted 30 minutes and heard hardly anything even remotely approaching factual truth. As for his opinions, well, he is entitled to them but I would take those more seriously if his facts were correct. He and his ilk bear much responsibility for the current war in Ukraine, having provided the intellectual rationale for 25 years of the West provoking Russia by threatening Ukrainian entry to NATO. Putin should not have strated this war because the threat was not yet imminent, but the West provoked Russia repeatedly since about 1997 (when Ywltsin was still in charge of Russia, and warned the US and NATO way back then that NATO expansion was unacceptable to Russia. Likewise, catastrophes like the second Iraq War, and the US and NATO spending 20 years in Afghanistan, when that intervention should have been about 6 months and then out, without the nation-building fantasy. Those all flow from his thinking. He means well, I guess, wanting to advance democratic liberalism, but those ideas when applied naively to teh real world create chaos and destruction, and that is on him. Around 18:10 he says you can't (meaning, "shouldn't") build a nation around race or religion or ethnicity, and the points at Russia. Hell, France, Germany, Japan, Spain, Netherlands, Austria, and plenty more are democratic much more based on a single ethnicity or religion or language than is Russia. Russia's problem with democracy is real and deep, but it is not what Fukuyama says it is. Just one small example of how he gets everything wrong.

[@andyyygane4713]

You are so right. He has provided the "intellectual" cover for much mischief-making around the world, now culminating in the partial destruction of Ukraine, which he appears to welcome because "the oligarchs have fled". As if, with the proper help, Ukraine couldn't have got rid of the oligarchs in a less "costly" fashion. Really, some of his statements make one's blood boil, especially because it's all delivered with a mild, reasonable-sounding voice. People like him are in fact some of the most dangerous on the planet in terms of the destruction they (indirectly) cause. And he is touted as an expert on Ukraine because he has "spent quite a lot of time there" in recent years. So basically he's one of these "parachute" experts, dropped into a country and then proclaimed the ultimate guru on it. Having lived in foreign countries for most of life, I can tell him it takes decades to truly understand a country. And a little bit of superficial knowledge is often worse than no knowledge at all, for it leads to all sorts of false conclusions and narratives.

[@MrSimeonk]

Indeed. Zelensky's Ukraine was on the verge of launching military campaign to take Donbas breaching Minsk Agreement so Kremlin had to move first. US foreign policy is the direct causation of the current Ukraine destruction even before H Clinton's CIA coup in 2014 removing the elected president...

[@123axel123]

You are right. The US pretending that Ukraine could become member of NATO is the worst. Either make them members directly or not at all. Misleading the Ukrainians and letting them piss off the Russians in the hope they will become members of Ukraine is absolute evil.

[@MrSimeonk]

@@123axel123 One needs to understand NATO is no longer about defending Europe from future wars but is about controlling the global energy market, which to be fair was exactly what the previous neo colonialists UK did when it had hegemonic supremacy. Washington does what Wall street wants. Wars are often profitable, proxy or shock and awe, the black gold is where the money is.

[@123axel123]

@@MrSimeonk Different sides have a different purpose. Europeans want defense without paying much. You put forward a realist interpretation of the US motivation. I would be more inclined to say that idealist neocons have a certain deluded worldview. Then there is probably also lobbying from certain industries, i.e. defense.

[@Amash796]

Question is, why was he spending so much time in Ukraine?? Obviously trying to prop up the ruling kleptocracy and neo Nazis. He must’ve felt like he was in heaven

[@knharilal9201]

Too good to be taken without a sea of salt.

[@CreatingChaos]

What a load of waffle 🥴

[@jae2686]

Isn’t this the same Fukuyama who’s got just about everything wrong.m? If so, listen and learn what not to do.

[@nickgood8166]

Apropos of the tosh that was 'The End of History'; why are we listening to this geezer?

[@darrencampbell6809]

Fukuyama is consistently wrong about everything.

[@monkerud2108]

One great analogy for why pure market driven progress is just a silly idea, and why regulation can be very beneficial is; road networks. If you let people figure out what roads work best for them, and there is no hierarchy of roads, with blocked of shortcuts on smaller roads and so on, then the efficiency of the system drops, even if every driver makes the best decision for themselves in terms of travel time. This is one counter example to theories that rational actors converge upon the optimized result when the decisions are made in a distributed way. Many regions of the economy, like education and so on, or healthcare also embody effects like this, in-fact most sectors that should have some regulations, function like that precisely because of effects like the one we find in road networks. roads are an example where planning systematically for traffic flow is necessary to a large degree, but in other systems the restrictions might be much less invasive, but the optimization of the regulations are almost never 0. under these optimal regulations, competition produces the best results economically for society and the economy as a whole in symbiosis with the other sectors. That is the definition i find to be best for what optimized regulations should be. Now there is also obviously the subjectivity involved in evaluating the results in gdp vs quality of life and so on, but thats a much larger discussion. the bottom line is that depending on your goals the results can look different, but in terms of raw economic power, the optimum regulations are almost certainly not 0, and that trows most theories about free markets out the window. at least at a very basic level, its still an effective way to organize an economy, but it works best with certain restrictions. and the hypothesis that a totally free market produces the best results because actors are rational is just very bad mathematics turned into an incoherent philosophy, because there are plenty of systems where selfish rational actors will always converge on a bad organization. its a general phenomenon

[@olympiahendrix4392]

thank you. Ill have to re read it too.

[@mayankmayank6276]

Dr. Fukuyama has turned hypocrisy in to a fine art

[@admiralbillom7559]

incredible horseshit - why not ask him on his views on the current state of english rugby?

[@freeandcriticalthinker4431]

If the guest is not willing to give ALL the main and necessary context, then you guys shouldn’t invite them on the show, this guy (Francis) is a perfect example of someone who lacks that critical element called Objectivity

[@jillyjoan8416]

You lost me at TDS, Mr Fukuyama. It's very dangerous to pepper solid discourse with subtle propaganda triggers.

[@rezzob]

bring some ideologue with agenda, put him on pedestal as authority on the topic then listen to the bs spewed. US has this “strange” system? you mean the system of not directly electing the president which is almost the same as most other modern democracies? how do you think canadian PM is elected? how do you think south african president elected?

[@casteretpollux]

Your point about fake experts is bang on. Samantha Powers - majored in sports then shows up the next year in the Yugoslavia war and produces a Pulitzer winner book reframing the definition of "genocide" to an exciting new justification for illegal US regime change wars. Unclear about who paid for her trip or why . 🙄

[@Pixie330-r1y]

Really interesting talk - but I think the 'title' of this podcast is an example of crass 'clickbait'.

[@eahofer]

Orbans party won 2/3s of the Parliament allowing them to change the Hungarian Constitution without contest and only had 51% of the vote. And on the subject of suffrage, his party enfranchised people with Hungarian ancestry being able to vote in Hungarian general elections though they neither live nor pay taxes.

[@chris1806]

What are the books in the background ?

[@rachelaspogard6587]

No mention of the Asov Nazi movement then?

[@bristolspotlight6387]

Christ this was mind-numbingly boring. I had thought it was almost impossible to make history boring, but Fukuyamama put me wrong on that score in less than a minute.😴😴😴😴

[@indio007]

It’s not a strange system for electing president. The States as legal entities are the parties to the Constitution. Not the people. The US constitution was never popularly voted on for adoption in the first place.

[@miophx8283]

I'd find Fukuyama more scholarly and interesting if he didn't use one political party for his examples of wrong doing and crimes.

[@andyyygane4713]

Putin's goal appears to be to "reunite" the three Russias: great, little and white. So in this sense, he is a bit like undertaker and mid-wife in one person.

[@olympiahendrix4392]

Putin does not want Kiev or the Catholic Ukrainians. They are too troublesome. He knows what it costs to prop their economy. Done it plenty of times........its like Northern Italy sending money to mafia controlled Southern Italy.....pfff the money vanishes. Then they are back to cryng for new hospitals. It never ends, He is not stupid, He wants his orthodox Russians to be free and secure. He wants Ukraine to stay neutral as in no missiles 306 miles from Moscow and he wants to neutralize the neo Nazis which want to establish a dictatorship in Kiev. Hiding the national socialists was part of the charming act for the benefit of the EU, Nato...but not really. They exist and are trouble. Because just now the Azov regiment based in Donbass just went rogue, refusing to obey Ukrainian army orders, lethally wounding one of their commanders and finally the order was given to shell their HQ in the south of Marieupol. They have declared openly their intentions of taking power in Kiev. There are a lot of wars going on and the Western press is just BS. Most dont even know who is fighting who. The so maligned humanitarian corridors to Russia were for the ethnic Russians under attack. A lot of ethnic Russian children went that way. The Russian army is destroying military bases around Kiev, airports, fuel depots, the weapons sent by the West and hidden in malls, schools. This will be remembered as the biggest American foreign policy mistake in history. We will be counting the losses for quite a while. Half the world is on Putin side and understands he had no choice...all the BRICS countries and 35 other countries who abstained on the vote of the sanctions. Lots of people. Lets hope Zelensky tires of the theatrics finally for the sake of his people and the entire world, retires to the life of a very wealthy man, (see Pandora papers) before the Neo nazis get him.

[@ezbody]

No, Putin's current goal is "destroy her because she rejected me", the classic behavior of a psychopath.

[@Teporame]

What happened with the end of history?

[@commonwunder]

I think there're two types of liberal political commentator... someone that lazily 'mows the lawn' of political correctness to within an inch of its life. And that person yet to be born, who'll reignite some passion... into what is now just a disquieting and inept set of platitudes.

[@harold4506]

The Hunter Biden laptop story will grow and grow, and we'll get to hear all about American/NATO geopolitical meddling. Putin had no choice but to act against the sovereignty grabbing West.

[@jonathanphillips5514]

Everyone has a choice

[@harold4506]

@@jonathanphillips5514 Yeah and America, and its allies, chose to kill 1 million people in Iraq after making up lies about Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons.

[@samthomas1457]

It has been Putin's life work and ambition to restore the soviet union. He is now willing to destroy a nation and have thousands murdered to continue to peruse this goal. It's everything to do with Putin being a modern day Hitler and not NATO.

[@samthomas1457]

@@harold4506 The civil war in Islam between shia and sunni killed 1 million people in Iraq.

[@markmallinder7618]

No choice other than to commit evil mass murder and destruction? WTF is wrong with you? 😡

[@radebatinica5545]

Francis……, go home. Please.

[@sujathaprakash629]

Hahaha

[@mistycloud4455]

A.G.I Will be man's last Invention

[@philiplindley7384]

Well his is one book I won't be reading, after 30 minutes I have no idea what he was saying. He seems confused to say the least?

[@wongchanthong]

Both interviewer and interviewee are ignorant of world affairs

[@PiotrBorowskiUK]

He is right about Hungary but not USA

[@barbaraseymour3437]

Oh yes? And how is he wrong about the US? Especially underTrump?

[@PiotrBorowskiUK]

@@barbaraseymour3437 He does not understand voting system in USA.

[@harveyhorwitz1346]

Francis your slip is showing.

[@rifekimler3309]

This cant be history in the making because he told us in 1990 history had ended. Why is this man taken seriously as an intellectual and a scholar?

[@BUSeixas11]

Did he actually say history had ended or are you judging a book by its title?

[@1943klt]

Do his Utopian ideas actually exist anywhere in the world?

[@igorroshkovsky8948]

It happens before. 1917-1919. Just read The White Guards by M. Bulgakov or Story of My Life by K. Paustovsky. And Donbas was a separate Russian Republic surrounded by Whites and Greens etc. Father of modern Ukraine was V. Lenin. Fukuiama never learn. The End of History ;)

[@gemeinschaftsgeful]

What about multi-national corporations' undermining democratic choice and it's alignment with autocratic nations?

[@jssheff]

An interesting and valuable interview.

[@grawakendream8980]

This statement is weird; no one says King George is the father of America, for example

[@zibmar]

Ukrainians are free to say what they want to the fascists?

[@leoelteniente6875]

Fukuyama is just a US ideologist. He's overrated, I thought he was more realistic.

[@MA-go7ee]

If one is going to make the doubtful (because when not improperly adjusted by ideologues like Piketty and co, most first world households leaving the middle class are doing so in an upwards direction) claim that 'neo liberlism' eroded incomes across the world it would be fair to mention that the main beneficiaries of this erosion of first world incomes were the middle classes in Asia who have gained massively in the past 30 years. So even if one were to accept this dubious claim, overall it has been a massive net gain. It astonishes me that so many want to denigrate the largest period of poverty reduction possibly in history just for ideological reasons (this applies to both the left and the right who both hate the disruptive nature of global trade). Sure, say it is distabilising. But give it it's proper due.

[@joshuap9580]

thats right he should have caveated that it eroded incomes in the developed world. although i'm guessing the people watching this live in the 1st world.

[@JoBlakeLisbon]

It's not even destabilising in fairness. Overall the world has been more stable than at any other point in human history - by far. Piketty isn't worth much as an economist - he makes such basic conceptual errors, the likes of which would have been exposed in a decent graduate school, that the basis of his whole work is flawed. For example the idea of the top one percent and top ten percent even being a stable category is nonsensical. If a person starts off in the bottom fifty percent of earners when he starts work - which almost everybody does - and by fifty he is in the top ten percent, where do we put him according to that schema? If he sells his house at 60, he shoots into the top 1% for one year. Is this man now part of a global elite keeping down the poor? Most of what goes on in these categories is simply age and the categories as a whole are by no means stable. Beyond this, the focus on equality and wealth distribution is also largely misguided. A more sensible focus should rightfully be on how wealth is actually created - poverty is no mystery - it's the default setting.

[@fredwelf8650]

Fukuyama seems to be saying that Putin will be remembered as one of the fathers of the Ukraine because he has been destroying the facilities of the oligarchs in the Ukraine, at least one of which was pro-Russian before the invasion! The notion that Putin is helping Ukraine by eliminating its oligarchs is paradoxical since not only has Russia lost men and machines, but they are destroying Ukraine cities. So, Fukuyama must be parodying Putin by this remark.

[@roc7880]

I felt the same thing. Not sure about the statehood but nationhood is ensured for the rest of history. Nations sometimes are born of common traumas that will build founding narratives for a heterogenous country like Ukraine. Now there is no question for the Russian speaking community in the east to whom they belong

[@j2174]

There are massive disparities in the US between Black Americans and AFRICAN Americans, as well as Black Americans and Asian Americans, Jewish Americans, etc. Also, apparently Black Americans have the second highest # of millionaires now?

[@j2174]

"Chip Belori 7 mins ago But USA is racis?" ???

[@greatgalaxy2118]

He claimed communism will fail But China/ Vietnam proved Fukuyama a wrong predictor/political scientist lol.....

[@ttrons2]

taxes taxes taxes

[@bboucharde]

If current trends continue, Ukraine will be a vast landscape of insects and grass......like most of the northern hemisphere, after the rad levels decrease and the smoke of 500 burned cities dissipates.

[@radiozelaza]

Fukuyama is wrong about financial crisis and deregulation. There was no deregulation. Financial sector was and is the most overregulated industry in American economy.

[@SurzhenkoAndrii]

I'd prefer to be an orphan

[@REwing]

At last someone is stating what our leaders should have been held to, to give true democracy !!!!! They have never kept to their own rules, and probably never will. This is what the lazy voters have allowed to develop, there is no system that makes the representatives carry out their promises!!!! They can’t be sacked on the spot!!!!!