Knee Pain While Cycling? - 7 Causes

[@SuphaireFX]

I could listen to James talking about bike fitting for hours, you can really tell how passionate he is! Keep up the great work.

[@Hamsong]

He’s sort of an endearing curmudgeon, which I enjoy.

[@Ayush-wh5qz]

Thanks James for pointing out the decrease in plastic packaging. Happy to hear people care about the little things.

[@Andy-co6pn]

Just need to find an alternative for the actual cleat material ....

[@FlyingPastilla]

@@Andy-co6pn Why ? Plastic is cheap, durable and recyclable if you use the right ones. Plastic isn't a problem per se. It's single-use, non-recyclable plastic that is.

[@468taylz]

@@FlyingPastilla It's well known that plastic is almost never recycled. Paper is better.

[@TBATTIECYCLING]

The acceleration of Cade media is mad ❤

[@simonsepic]

Fantastic channel but going by the views it hasn't changed much at least in the oast year. Despite his massive amazing ride.

[@frazergoodwin4945]

And its all of Shimano's products that are now packaged in paper boxes and bags. For example I just got some new Brake pads and they came packaged like that too... Respect to Shimano!

[@clovisw]

I love getting an ear beating from James, I love it.

[@yaacov9008]

Wait it's actually Tuesday tho. Cade Media getting all professional 😜

[@wurstfontaene]

you are an absolute showman... love it... fact of the matter is: everybody on a bike should be listening to you! greets from mtb-world ;)

[@Bertie..]

We have been conditioned to believe that clipless pedals and stiff shoes are a must. After developing knee pain at 65 and riding clipless I started watching YT videos like this one. I went from 175 to 155 cranks and switched to flats pedals with flat cycling shoes. I was blown away by how it changed everything I thought I knew about cycling efficiency. Now that I'm free to move around on the pedals when climbing, descending, sprinting the bio mechanical efficiency of flats is mind boggling. Still glued to the pedals but free to make adjustments is a game changer for the knees. All my bikes, gravel, road, MTB now have flats and shorter cranks.

[@scktdg]

Maybe this is the truth. My first two long trips ride were flats, and everything went well. But I felt my legs very loose and I wasn’t secure, so during the ride I understood the importance of the cipless pedals. So I decided to go clipless, and immediately I developed knee pain, which I was very sad. Then after rehabilitating the injury, thought to try again, and the same happened. To be honest I feel very comfortable with clipless, but I don’t know what to do to prevent the knee injury… Maybe I have to go back flat.

[@wandering_pete]

@@scktdg I've heard MTB (mountain bike) flat pedals (the sort with the little studs around the pedal) and MTB flat shoes work wonders.

[@stevekish4611]

STANCE! I can't tell you how much James' advice on stance is. I heard him discuss this months ago and I added 20mm pedal extenders to my Giant Revolt and my knee pain went away!! I weigh 260lbs (118kgs) and always had knee pain 10-15 miles into a ride. I also bought 16mm extenders and will test them when the weather gets warmer and I'm sure James is cringing on 20mm extenders when he spoke of 2mm washers in this video but the 20mm extenders work and being pain free means everything. I also moved my Shimano SPD cleats to the rear position and both the extenders and cleat positions have made my rides pain free. James is brilliant!!

[@dan44zzt231]

I always used to get around this on my CX bikes by using MTB cranks with a 5mm spacer each side of the BB cups, which widen the stance 10mm. Harder to do now with 1x setups and big range cassettes where chainline is critical. An option if the bolt on pedal spacers are too much.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

Talking about MTBers having less knee issues, can you do a MTB bike fit tuesday special? I‘d like to hear what James has to say about „modern geometry“ with 80 degree seat angles, all dropper posts being zero setback and 800mm bars.

[@lupitlupitan]

Bike fitting an mtb is a preference since the terrain you’ll be riding is always changing compared to a road bike. You’ll just need to make sure that your clest position and saddle height is correct (if you’re running an xc bike)

[@5amba]

​@@lupitlupitan If you just shedding trails, sure.. that might me enough. But not if you ride xc marathon or just ride your bike all day long. You might like a wide bar and your cockpit setup, but that doesn't mean is a good fit. From what I heard, it's quite hard to find a bike fitter who can really fit a mountain biker. Most of them don't have the experience, since bike fitting is more a road bike thing. Therefore I also curious about James opinion.

[@DS1150]

Another vote for this.

[@durianriders]

Good tips bro. Most peoples cleats slip and they dont even know it because they dont mark their OG cleat angle with a white out pen etc.

[@alethearobinson8132]

Look forward to bike fit Tuesdays. Learn something new every time.

[@dcltdw]

Oh wow, a bike fit tuesday episode \James{thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat} actually dropped on a Tuesday!

[@cyc00000]

How good is James! these are among the best videos on youtube.

[@martinjames672]

Love this series. Really managing to sort out bike comfort issues for me. Did a three day race last year on 172.5mm cranks (borrowed bike). It was fantastic! The cadence/comfort/climbing all felt better. Unfortunately all my bikes are 175mm... nooo....

[@TheUsername1302]

Even though I’ve heard James talk about this before, I’ll still watch it because a) it’s entertainment and b) I’m curious to which watch he’s wearing

[@davidcowan1889]

I'm loving the content but do miss, some of your fun cycling adventures. Hoping after the shop is all set up and consistent there will be some time for group cycles and seeing people

[@willspower3]

Will the supply of 'stop doing THIS' thumbnails run out? Are they mating with 'do THIS'? Will other 'THIS' thumbnails develop a Hapsburg jaw? Keep up the good work!

[@heidijarvis777]

My recent MRI scan has now shown I have patellofemoral osteoarthritis so I’m now waiting for an appointment with a physiotherapist. Riding my bike is less painful than walking.

[@lukewalker1051]

Word up from a long time cyclist who never put much credence in Q-factor. It matters. I am 6'1" and 182 lbs and relatively lean with triathlete body...I am a swimmer as well with upper body develpment and why my weight...with wide hips. In fact, my hip width has always caused me to size up in my bib shorts even though most that look at me with my BMI would put me in a smaller bib. If you have wider hips and more comfortable on a wider saddle, consider 'pedal extenders'. Pedal extenders can be purchased as solid...don't get the hollow ones for safety and are available 9/16" to 9/16 male to female and '21mm wide'. So they will increase a common Q-factor of 150mm or so...to about 192mm or so. I used them with Speedplay Zero standard spindle length because longer Speedplay pedal spindles aren't long enough and they are pricey. BIG difference in pedal stroke and zero knee pain because the position of the foot aka what the video presenter calls stance...foot in now directly underneath the hip joint. This also changes foot toe point more outboard and distance from knee tracking to the top tube. So for those long time road riders like me...I ride mtb as well....if you are a bit bigger guy or a woman with wide-ish hips which is not uncommon, consider trying a wider pedal position to obtain proper knee tracking. Should give you a hint more power as well because you can apply force to the pedals more efficiently aka improved improved biomechanics. This fitter really knows his stuff and have followed his advice for quite a while. Another smart guy on youtube is Neill from Australia and he says the same thing. Smart guys think alike. Cheers from America. PS. many years ago I pushed my cleats back well behind the 1st metatarsal. Huge benefit for everything...mostly notably achilles. T = F X D. Shorten the effective foot length, reduce torque on the achilles. Again what the fitter said in this video and more great advice.

[@GamblerBE]

Same here! 195cm and recently bought pedal extenders and riding it for the first time felt like my whole lower body just let out a big sigh of relief. Just have to watch out for pedal strikes now.

[@cjohnson3836]

This is one reason I chose a gravel frame specced to a 73mm BB.

[@nickcarolan2805]

Nice one lads. I'll be making sure of this when I pick up my gravel bike next month 🇮🇪

[@stephenhaley2k3]

I'm always struggling with bike fit but love how James is somehow clear and to the point while also on the edge of rambling 😂. Just put my saddle down 11mm after watching this and the discomfort on the outside of my left leg immediately stopped. Looking forward to trying it on some harder rides but it's been bothering me for months!

[@TBATTIECYCLING]

Love Mr Grumpy - wouldn’t miss a video 🎉

[@rob-c.]

Bought some Shimano disc brake pads the other day - I was pleasantly surprised to see them packaged purely in cardboard 👍

[@CatManDoSocial]

I bought my first pair of Speedplays in 1998 and have had them on every road bike since and never had a single problem or pain with them. Watching all of these videos with James inspired me to try a pair of Shimano Ultegra pedals. I have to say, for me, the Shimanos are better in almost every way. The larger platform is amazing, especially while standing. Unfortunately, I did start having knee pain, just inside of the patella on both knees. The cleats we all the way back, and the stance was as wide as I could get; the same or wider than the Speedplays. The float never felt restricted and they seemed fine. After several rides like this and making small adjustments, I reluctantly decided to go back to the Speedplays for fear of injury. I'm really bummed because I like the Shimano pedals much, much more. Maybe I'm just one of the few people that actually benefit from the Speedplays. I don't know.

[@drevo50]

Huge amount of sense. I cured my knee pain years ago by levelling the saddle, reducing setback and getting the saddle height right. Made a massive difference.

[@DebonairOnline]

Best ending to a James video so far.

[@frankcastora8348]

Bike fit James is an artist!

[@markthomas741]

So, I've discovered that anything can cause knee pain and Shimano cleat packaging is now awesome! 😁

[@astutenomad2879]

I was a runner until I ran into knee issues from American football. I switched over to cycling recently, and my knees got worse. I was out of my league, so I been researching the science behind proper cycling. Mind you, I couldn't complete 2 miles because of the pain. Thank you for the informative video.

[@CT37BN]

More cushion on your saddle doesn't necessarily translate to more comfort that's for sure. Even if you got the correct sit bone width and proper saddle length that fits, if it's too soft or hard, you are going to change that saddle so make sure to use the saddle for a few days at least before deciding.

[@kozol7]

love the channel and the Bike Fit Tuesdays series! What about making episode of "how to set up a bike that's too small"? I mean some tips, dos and dont's when you feel your bike is far or little bit too small.

[@daniels.2720]

Bravo James + Bravo Francis !!

[@zsoltmajor860]

the statement about the forefoot varus wedge built in the specialized shoes was spot on, as it puts the foot in overly supinated sate it leads easily to frontal knee pain - at least that was in my case, and changing to a neutral shoe solved it immediately

[@paulawright6868]

Love the Shoe, Cleat, tangent. Paper bag. ❤

[@homesquad4life]

James is so well informed on these things. Thanks!❤

[@Emtbtoday]

Interesting. I've got a couple of tips there. It's just above my knee cap. If I start a hill climb sprint, the pressure starts to bring on a sharp, niggling pain. Then, after 30 minutes, once I start feeling it, I'm finished. It gets so painful! I'll play around with the saddle today. I thought I'd finally gotten my most comfortable position on it this week until this happened. But it only starts when I really push into the left pedal when I want to increase speed in a higher gear, so I'm not spinning out. I'm on 165 mm cranks. The Q-factor was too narrow before. It took a lot of faffing around to get going, that's for sure.

[@adamweb]

Shimano definitely makes the best pedal/cleat system... there's also a blue cleat (2 degree float) that bridges the gap between red (0 degree) and yellow (6 degree).

[@bigslicksly9874]

Wow that was quite informative. Great video. My next season will probably be much more comfortable. Thanks!

[@tweed0929]

Don't overlook the importance of choosing right oval if oval chainring is your thing. Back in my bike messenger days I had lots of knee problems to the point of thinking of abandoning cycling completely. Then I changed my Biopace chainrings to usual round ones and all my woes went away.

[@JKPwaka]

Thanks lads. Lads, and ladies, how about not clipping in? I clip in on my road bikes. No bother. But I also rickshaw the kids to school (trailer). No battery and the system weight is very high. I find that I need to apply a ton of power to keep moving but I also apply tension in the knees to prevent my feet from slipping off the flat pedals. I've just changed to gravel pedals and shoes, but I think it's a little too late. Anyway it sounds like a similar issue to pitching the nose of the saddle down. Has anyone experienced the same? I'm a big fan of the channel so I have the fit specced out as closely as can be interpreted. Any words of wisdom would be great! Thanks James and Frances for the great vids

[@grahambell9831]

Top advice, top video gents 👏. Last 15 seconds.......priceless! 😆

[@petetrundell5454]

I rode and competed for years putting up with knee pain. It really held me back. I was advised cleats with float but they didn’t solve the problem. Whilst sitting on the floor one day I noticed my right foot canted over more than my left. I tried a 20mm pedal spacer which allows my left ankle to tuck in further and never felt the knee pain again. Great news but wish I’d tried it earlier - I’m too old to take full advantage of it now!😖

[@cpac54]

Looking forward to a deeper explanation of the relationship b/w shorter cranks and more weight on the hands. I swapped to 165mm last year on the advice of a fitter, but struggled with hand pain all summer afterwards. Ended up moving my saddle back to help, but my fit has felt completely off ever since.

[@thedownunderverse]

Stick with it. Totally worth it. Saddle up and back is key.

[@martinsamardziev1161]

I switched to 165mm last month (from 175) and I experienced a pain in the left hand for the first 5 rides. What I did (for fixing the problem) was reducing the reach (1cm shorter stem), but I changed my hand position on the hoods too (I was holding them differently before). Also, I leveled the saddle (now it is 0 degrees).

[@CatManDoSocial]

James! Thanks so much for doing these as usual. Absolutely brilliant. Love it.

[@timothydog76]

Usually it's James breaking Francis' balls in these videos. Finally Francis gets one in on James! Cheers!

[@Z-u-m-a]

I still use flat pedals on the road bike. One of the reasons is existing left knee pain from other sports years ago which can pop up whilst cycling, and having flats means being able to shift/adjust foot position if the pain appears. It's mainly re going up steep hills, where moving the feet forward (so the pedals feel like being in the arch, like stamping down on them) feels far more effective and pain-free. It really helps. It also seems to help general fatigue by shifting feet around a bit and utilising different muscle groups in the legs. James might have kittens at this, but any thoughts appreciated. Really don't think the saddle is too high, but maybe I'll try moving it forward a bit more. Good, firm, supporting insoles in the shoes really helped too btw - even with flats - much better alignment.

[@redauwg911]

Broke my ankle years ago and yes I use aggressive mountain bike pedals and stiff tennis shoes also for the same reason.

[@cjohnson3836]

I think, unless you're trying to race over unpaved terrain or you're sprinting, most people would be more comfortable (and thus, better off) on flats. The only bike I have clip pedals on is my gravel race bike.

[@adredy]

pain in the ass those knees agree ? i twist in job now i can do shit :/

[@tweed0929]

Same. I use flat pedals on my road bike due to metatarsal arthritis. Finding cycling shoes that fit is impossible. So I use tennis sneakers.

[@cneubert28]

Awesome! I hope y'all do one on lower back pain soon.

[@jimkodet7908]

I purchased some SQlab Xlong 511 (+15mm) pedals which are spd-compatible. Their crank to cleat center distance is 68.9mm vs. Shimano's standard 55mm. I'm hoping to alleviate my interior knee pain that resulted from a MTB equipped with a 168mm crank q-factor to a 145mm crank q-factor on my gravel bike. Unfortunately these SQlab pedals are an exact knock-off of the Wellgo m094b clipless pedals which sell for $39.95. I'm unsure if its even worth giving these Taiwanese specials a try. Not very confident relying on just lateral cleat placement and 2mm washers, especially with U.S. size 15 shoes rubbing on the chainstays.

[@Emtbtoday]

These new magnetic inserts of pedals some brands patented just now will be interesting something magnetic instead of a clip in coming out next.

[@noamross]

Question for a future episode: How would uneven strength between legs or injury issues on one side affect bike fit and how would you address it?

[@garyhodkinson5987]

Hang on. That was Mary Spender right! Coolest on this vid.

[@crnkspinnr3342]

SO after I put a shim under my right cleat, my knee pain subsided and my left knee stopped angling out to the side due to my leg length discrepancy. Maybe you could address, (or have already addressed) this malady. Great information, always on point.

[@alienaudaxer9827]

Kudos to Shimano. However, the first time I ordered a part in their new packaging I was convinced it was a cheap fake as I was so used to the silver/blue packaging :D.

[@underbikedoverconfident1142]

Interesting, there is a recent trend to go with shorter cranks in MTB for more stability. Even 155mm cranks are not off the table and weight on the front of the bike is good for climbing 🤔

[@christopherrahilly8425]

iSSi Pedals also have a long axle version and I find them to be great pedals

[@bigmikeapa]

For me, I’ve gotten some pedal extenders for both of my bikes and has helped a lot in pedal stroke and knee pain has lessen

[@Emtbtoday]

Even the counterfeiters have had to move to paper! But most probably maples and not recycled but still it's a start 😂

[@ForeverDownByLaw]

I would love to get Jame's take on bike fitting with flat pedals. Although I ride a road bike, I don't use clipless, and I'd be curious about any fit differences that should be considered.

[@frisedel]

I wish I had the money to go to the UK for a fit.. ;) great videos!

[@rtw9655]

I love my 165mm cranks and wider stance 🙏👍

[@DarkAssassin197]

Great - as usual! What do you guys think of SIDI shoes? 🙋🏽‍♂️

[@paulmorrison30]

Excellent content 👌🏾👏🏾

[@coltonkennelly8231]

Love it! Thanks!

[@mgb311]

Well done Shimano on the packaging!

[@croweatr]

Crank Bros sells a longer spindle kit for their pedals too...

[@simonlynch4204]

I'll say it again: I wish I could get a fit with you James. In my city, NO bike fit places have a jig, NO bike shop have "pre sale" fit to speak of, and the physio that are quite competent can make easy mistakes that you keep pointing out in your videos... It's a bike fitter desert...

[@ianlainchbury]

Really good this one. Ty

[@user-nu5fx6en9h]

i dont have knee pain qwhile riding but after the ride I will have, especially when I go up the stairs

[@ivangroznii]

Great video like always 😊 unfortunately I bought specialized shoes before watching this video. And for the first time of my life, I have an incredible left foot outside foot pain😮. I would like some advice on a new pair of shoes. I was looking at DMT or Side or ? Info on that I do on the bike, I'm a master racer with biggish watts 😂.

[@Knud451]

Thanks! From anecdotal evidence, I agree with James on the saddle tilt :) One question about listing to one side. If you have some scratch bikes on the bibs on one side, is that the side you're listing to (or the opposite side)?

[@JamesSocialCycling]

I’ve just had the pleasure of knee pain, but thinking back, the only difference is a good month in the saddle on Zwift doing interval workouts, 3-4 times a week. Would excessive use be an issue. Oh and the pain seems to central? For the record, i feel my saddle is in a perfect position, due to not suffering from saddle sores after copious amounts of watching your other saddle vids😉👌

[@JamesSocialCycling]

This is the right knee which I also snapped the ACL in 2017 Jan.

[@schschsch2642]

Question for James: What does he think of the Fizik and Specialized 3D-printed saddles?

[@nyf_verg]

I've been thinking about this Idea lately. When it comes to cleats, how good or bad can it be to have 3d printed cleats to accommodate the rider's needs? would this be a good thing for bike fitters like James? I feel like it can improve a lot of things such as pushing the cleats back even further, increasing the stances even wider, and possibly even lowering stack height? But then again it could be a dumb Idea. I'm no engineer nor a bike fitting expert.

[@robwetherell]

Mint as usual! 👌

[@kovar2344]

Is James changing his beard length by power of will ? Looks different in every video :D

[@chch242]

Imagine a discussion between James and Alex Dowsett.

[@nkuesal]

Really interested to know James' opinion on Coefficient Cycling's RR and AR handlebar in terms of ergonomics and comfort in a bikefit or maybe review of that product?

[@cyndytri]

I get an incredible amount of helpful information from these videos, thank you! I have a question about my stages sb20 trainer. When I ride in a normal riding position, I’m fine. But if I sit straight up and keep pedaling, the outside of my right knee starts to hurt in about 10 minutes. I’m recovering from shoulder surgery so I’m going to be in this unicycle position for a while. Any ideas that I can try to alleviate knee pain while sitting upright? Appreciate all that you give to the community!! 🙏

[@sepg5084]

Try riding a flat pedal bike and see how you would naturally place your foot on the pedal. You'd notice that you'd out the pedal spindle nearer to the middle of your foot compared to clipless pedals because clipless pedal limits your foot position.

[@derekhobbs1102]

I actually find the opposite, my foot creeps back until the spindle is almost under my toes. Don't know why.

[@FOREST10PL]

@@derekhobbs1102 Same. My natural flat pedal position is almost the same as clipless. Spindle directly below the ball of the foot.

[@cwd3191]

BIKE FIT TUESDAY!!!

[@jezudykw]

lately I started having a paralyzing pain in one knee. I got a little nervous. I had no problems before, haven't changed anything on the bike and all of a sudden there was a problem. then I noticed my cleats were not set symmetrically and I remembered I went on a particularly muddy ride not that long ago and afterwards had to remove cleats to properly clean them. when I put them back on the shoes I put one a bit more further back then it was before. like 0.5 cm back. and that was it. how is that a thing ? bloody 0.5 cm difference between smooth ride and world of pain after 5km.

[@Midas8610]

Which shoes have a wider toe box, for Cross Country/Gravel riding?

[@Wasatchwatts]

Can you go into how shorter cranks add weight to the front of the bike and if there’s a good way to counteract or when you need to go longer again? I think this is my issue, no matter what I change using 165mm cranks I can’t get rid of shoulder blades getting sore

[@markusseppala6547]

More saddle settback, longer stem, raise your handlebars? Or maybe some pullups, pushups and core work.

[@thedownunderverse]

@@markusseppala6547 saddle setback is key - especially with cleats pushed rearward

[@expectandreceive]

Time does have fixed cleats. They are black and say FIXED

[@AntoineThisdale]

Perfect ending.

[@Nyarlathoth]

The solution to all problems is to ride enough to deform the body until it perfroms in the given position. Better have more than one bike to avoid being stuck in one deformity

[@burkstg]

At 3:27 James says that stance that is too narrow can result in medial (inside of knee) pain, and stance that is too wide can cause lateral (outside of knee) pain. Shouldn't that be the opposite?

[@lincolnlu9869]

Check out James' fancy Paul Smith shirt

[@JanekDetko]

Could knee pain also come from lack of muscle/strength in legs? Therefore needing strength training to build up the leg muscles !

[@williamryan8841]

Building up your legs is super helpful for knee pain! Basically the main physical therapist rec I got was squats

[@JFomo]

No because big and tight quad muscles can cause knee pain when cycling. Advanced quad stretches will solve that issue and I'm speaking from experience.

[@platypushatstand]

So if I slide my saddle forward by 3mm it needs to be raised by 1mm. Therefore, if I slide my saddle backwards by 3mm it needs to be lowered by 1mm? Yet if the saddle is lowered by 20mm, surely it should slide back by 60mm, given the above ‘formula’?

[@aragaomrcl]

Hey Guys! Great stuff as usual. But I did not get the math, ratio 1to3, so if you move 3 forward shouldn’t we raise 9mm?

[@glennoc8585]

No it's 3 to 1.

[@aragaomrcl]

@@glennoc8585 but then in the example James gave 3mm forward, we should raise just 1mm? I thought he said 5mm.

[@alistairwhite3531]

James, can you just confirm stance and knee pain.... I have always understood lateral knee pain associated with insufficient stance. You seem to be suggesting the opposite?

[@larrymyles1012]

So Good BoyZzz!

[@dh6167]

Does James' shop sell those pedal washers via an online store? I would like to try some to widen my stance without first having to buy new pedals. Thanks

[@mwbpo1]

Excellent

[@Ans12237]

Talking about Sattle setback, i heard that you supposed to push it back so that when youre at the front of the stroke the knee is aligned with the tip of the foot? Is that a thing?

[@cptbrncls7050]

I get knee pain, on the right side only, after, not during, riding (or running) which my physio says improbably tight ITB on the right side

[@emiliorossi1841]

How about shimano mountain bike spd shoes...do they also have the same issue as the shimano road bike shoes?

[@robertmcfadyen9156]

But what about people with "OSTEOARTHRITIS" which is what I have . Nothing really overcomes the aching associated with this condition . I have a perfectly set up bicycle but the aching is still felt .