Women’s Race Criticised Over Busty AI Pin-Ups + Chaos At The Cyclocross - Wild Ones Podcast Ep63

[@malcontent_1]

I'm so glad you mentioned Microshift Sword and to hear you'll be featuring it on the channel soon. _This_ is right up my alley.

[@joshuarebennack68]

Sword is far better than its get credit for. The lack of hydro brakes is the only downside, but that is what TRP HYRDs are for.

[@squngy0]

@@joshuarebennack68 Apparently ZTTO made a new version of theirs recently that doesn't suck. Should be a good budget alternative if it is confirmed by reviewers.

[@Dlawler]

​@@joshuarebennack68from what I've seen so far, the pivot location of the sword levers give them a good bit extra. Mixed with some good pads. No hydro isn't that bad

[@RovePaths]

Full mechanical is less expensive and easier to maintain. Currently have GRX 400/610 but it's good to see an alternative. I'll be staying with mechanical until my last day of riding.

[@Dlawler]

@RovePaths the maintenance difference isn't that great. Alot of people seem to overplay it

[@DDai-qd8uk]

As a woman from Switzerland, I can't wait to join the gran fondo!

[@AvaValesToledano]

Francis, it's in Seinfeld!! There's this episode where the building's shower heads are changed and Kramer goes on to buy black market high pressure shower head from some shady guy who's got them all in his coat. You did not dream it.

[@lask2057]

I can’t believe that they built a cycling and pedestrian specific tunnel under the River Tyne in the 1950s but they wont do the same now in 2024

[@zoid88]

Can't be spending any money on nice things.

[@Hill_Walker]

As you mentioned new tunnels being built excluding cyclists in London. It might be worth looking up a new tunnel, that Norway finished building last year. It'd also be fun to have you all try an pronunce the name, Fyllingsdalstunnelen, next episode. As far as I know it's the longest cycling tunnel around. Tldr, 2.9km tunnel linking the city centre with a residential neighborhood, for cylists and pedestrians only.

[@Hill_Walker]

The tunnel also functions as an evacuation tunnel, for the parallel tram route next door.

[@MarcosAlcazar]

Hello Cade Media, I'm glad to inform you that you are the only podcast I keep listening to this date, after ditching all the others I was subscribed to. You are informative and exciting to watch and listen. Thanks for the hard work you put in, Marcos, from Argentina.

[@chris_noswe]

"I'm glad to inform you" dude this is KZbin not LinkedIn, what are you doing?

[@MarcosAlcazar]

@@chris_noswe I'm doing whatever I want :)

[@williejonker1]

Cats out the bag.Francis off to Asia again with Lawrence. You should make them sign NDA's😂till the trip. Looking forward to see the episode. Enjoy

[@chris_noswe]

Asia? Hopefully Japan or South Korea then.

[@nikitakachanovsky4589]

Company that put TV image on a bike box was called Vanmoof :)

[@rob-c.]

Kona did it/do it as well

[@YouOnlyLiveHans]

Vanmoof is one lame company

[@lancescarborough1]

POSEIDON does it.

[@_PaperbagGhost]

@27:24 we also have a similar issue with the massey tunnle in Vancouver Canada, where the tunnle is too high traffic and too narrow to safely ride through even though its fairly short. we have a free shuttle service on either side that would shuttle riders and their bikes through the tunnle all day. that tunnel is getting replaced with a bridge in the future though, so hopefully thats not needed anymore

[@mckayflake1590]

I think it’s a bit hypocritical that you bash a race organizer for using sexualized pictures of cyclists for clicks and in your thumb nail you insert a similar image to get clicks

[@legrandaile1]

It's so good (and important) to hear Emily's opinions. Stereotyping is such a barrier to participation in lots of activities. I believe the benefits of cycling to individuals and communities are so important that we need to work towards there being zero barriers to participation. Note: GCN still hasn't replaced Manon.

[@Heimdallar]

Should've told Lawrence to not spoil the trip :D

[@yourdeadjack]

Someone has to be first

[@paulgrimshaw8334]

Re Vintage Bike Snobs. Vintage, modern whatever. Just ride the damned bike and quit trying to convince people “you’re” cool, authentic etc. Because if you’re trying to convince people you’re cool or authentic, you’re probably not. Just saying…

[@wandering_pete]

Completely agree, and it's much the same as people who call themselves "Alpha". Snobs will always be snobs.

[@petertreadway]

I was born in 1981, so I think Emily just called me vintage! 🤣

[@malcontent_1]

@@petertreadway haha (hmph) I guess that makes me _olde_ - the custom steel bike I had built in the summer of _1986_ had 53/39 x 12-25 gearing. That was considered "low" gearing; the strong riders ran cassettes with 12-23 or 12-21. We were masochists.

[@__uorson]

that was a *great* year to have been born..... ahem... (we _are_ vintage.)

[@petertreadway]

@@malcontent_1 defo showing your age there! 😂. I think all is cyclists are a little masochistic though! 😈

[@petertreadway]

@@__uorson like a fine wine. Just getting better with age 👀

[@malcontent_1]

@@petertreadway ... 🥾🍑 Indeed, each in our own way

[@JonCook-p2i]

Vanmoof is a bike company in Holland that places pictures of TV's on the side of their bike packaging to raise awareness that the goods are fragile.

[@iamcliffordwells]

You guys are great. Sorry Jimmy, there are a couple of brands sending bikes in a box with a TV on it. Vanmoof being one. In America, Poseidon Bikes, of which I own the X Ambition, also ships in a box with a TV on the packaging. P.S. used to be a fan of just the GCN channels, but now your shows are my number one. I have even gone back to the first show and have Ben binge watching to catch up, and I just enjoy the chemistry between you and the truthful commentary. Thanks.

[@wayneclement7201]

Ive literally watch the first few minutes as of writing this, but i love the interraction and input you take from the viewers, long may it continue!

[@Dlawler]

Keen to see the sword review. Seriously thinking it'll be the direction ill go

[@ShawnAuth]

I look forward to the Sword video, I am planning to use the 2x Sword components to improve my road bike, because the existing microshift shifters and rear derailleur are not good enough.

[@Hurricane2k8]

My Surly Preamble came stock with a cheap-ish Microshift groupset using the R9 levers. These levers were the main reason I wanted to ditch the setup immediately and snatched a Sword 1x groupset that somebody took off a different bike (unused) for cheap. The difference is massive, I really love the levers, the shifting paddels are positioned much more nicely and the most important thing for me is that I can brake from the hoods really easily, which wasn't possible with the R9 levers. The downshift on the Sword levers is a little mushy, but other than that so far it's been fantastic!

[@HardcountsAdventures]

A wire tap is where you tap into a phone line to listen in where a wire is a hidden listening device used to listen to a conversation within an area.

[@michaelcallaghan4336]

Whether or not the images were over the line, that's an object lesson in how NOT to respond to criticism

[@erikk7643]

I just built a Surly. Steel frames come in so many sizes. Built for comfort. The best imo.

[@mobert8266]

i dont think that taking something down just because of some negative voices is something someone should do. if there are mainly negative views on that. then it is something different.

[@super8hell]

Top tube of Pantani's bike was 52 cm (47 cm seat tube), with a 11 cm stem. Whoever believed that was actually his bike was a little bit naive :D

[@hightechhighlander]

Happy birthday Jimmy, I wish I was cycling and had you guys to listen to when I was 31.

[@__uorson]

i think he was joking. i feel like he's mentioned he's closer to forty in the past.

[@hightechhighlander]

@@__uorson Either way I witsh I had these guys twhen I first started.

[@__uorson]

@@hightechhighlander agreed! :)

[@DarynRod]

When Em said the 80s were like 40 years ago and vintage... I felt that in my bones...

[@jameshmd]

Pog ‘only’ has 3 TdF wins and one Giro win, so a long way from Merckx. However one stat that isn’t mentioned enough is that Pog has only raced 7 grand tours and he was on the podium at every single one! He came 3rd at his very first grand tour ( Vuelta 2019). 🤯 And then won his very first TdF at 21. He’s got 5 TdF podiums and this year was the first year he wasn’t eligible for the white jersey.

[@rob-c.]

Merckx also has a big doping asterisk next to his name, so I find it hard to take him seriously when HE calls himself the greatest. It’s a shame he’s not more humble and he should leave it up to others to say whether he is or isn’t the best.

[@danielakerman8241]

I checked out la.reine’s profile for myself. Frankly, I think the fuss VASTLY overstates how sexualized the imagery is and I really think the criticism is overblown. That said, I also think the response of the organizers calling someone who questions them a “fascist” and “terrorist” is simply awful and not a good look. If they want to grow, that’s definitely not the way…

[@rasmusvedel]

To each their own. I scrolled through their feed too, and I definitely think it’s sexist. It’s not highly sexual, but it is sexist. And if the content showed up in my feed it is the kind of stuff I’d just block. Looks like a spam profile trying to get followers from “look we have sexy ladies”. Side note - the comment highlighting their sexist content has BY FAR the most likes on their entire profile and yet they claim it’s a minority. They are definitely not listening to their followers and cherry picking their data.

[@MrChewy79]

Everyone is so offended by everything these days & apparently everyone has to conform to a subset of societies morals and beliefs, otherwise you’re somehow corrupt. It’s an all women’s event, if people don’t like it they won’t go, company will suffer and people can say serves them right if that’s what they think

[@jim2111]

I feel that La Reine is women ran and is celebrating the beauty and strength of women. I showed the pictures to my wife and she thinks they are cool. My wife is fierce and brave and rather unwoke. I believe La Reine is for women and they were rather upset when the lady wanted trans women in their race. Thumbs up from my wife for La Reine. Proud that they have not buckled under pressure.

[@paulgrimshaw8334]

@@danielakerman8241 It’s more Marxist than fascist. It’s deconstructionist and hyper critical... It embraces dialectical expression. Like the system that spawned from it (Communism), the ultimate goal is to control the narrative. So the response of the organizers was onto something… just at the other extreme of the political spectrum.

[@tyrgoossens]

​@@paulgrimshaw8334 Yeah, the Berlin group that tried to fan the flames by trying to make it about trans definitely sounds like it fits that mould.

[@ThePalsta]

The main issue with cycling in a road tunnel is inhaling all the exhaust fumes while riding. Just drive through the Tyne tunnel with your windows down for the experience!

[@deskelly9313]

Jeez that was a preachy section on the AI images

[@andreemurray7039]

Love the show very honest comments great show

[@paulhugo1623]

This group is from Europe? Different countries have varying views of what is ‘sexualisation’ . These may be overtly stylised or idealised but not necessarily offensive… each nationality’s woman’s view may differ… if offensive the participants will take action, but it seems their own group may be in agreement with them.

[@seanyates2073]

Would love to see a video on your hill climb build Jimmy! Especially a steel build, I've always been toying with the idea of a steel/ti HC bike! Would be great to see how you make it and how much for!

[@newttella1043]

La reine's AI images were really generated by Durian rider. Has grooming vibes to it.

[@oheso]

There's a tunnel from Yotsuya to Shinjuku that's marked no cyclists (and there's a reasonable surface route around which I always take). I was waiting for the light once at the Yotsu entrance and watched a very fit, very fast rider just go right through the tunnel and remarked, "Nope! Nope nope nope nope!" I shared this with my son (also an avid cyclist) and he agreed.

[@johnmcnulty1129]

🎵 There's only one Bella Only one Bella Walking along Giving the hugs Christening trees in Geordie Winterland 🎵 ☀️ 🐿 Have a fantastic time Francis

[@seascape]

As a former preppie from 3rd grade to 12th grade in Boston, I have to say that Cafe du Cycliste makes some of the best looking, fashionable jerseys for cyclists that want something that looks different from traditional cycling kits. Quality is very good as well.

[@edtilley891]

Love your show!!! It is a must watch every week

[@Jay685]

Welsh Cycling produced some similar images for the Breeze Olympics Festival in the summer, which was interesting and did cause some discussion. The 2nd attempt gave one image a pair of dungarees.

[@goonzjav]

Cafe du Cycliste pretty underrated, they make quality garms but extortionate prices. My office was round the corner from the store so used to get to the sample sales right at the start which is the only time I bought any of their kit. Great quality though.

[@joekawasaki]

It's nice that Campagnolo finally fixed the thumb shifter problem, but the component finishes were the thing that made them come across as premium. The old super record cranks were beautiful! That looks bland & bulky.

[@geoffwaymark465]

'discrepancy with fact' is an exellent phrase I'm going to use all the time!

[@nbartlett6538]

Or as Sir Humphrey might have said, there is some difficulty in justifiably assigning to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement, inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated and the facts, insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated, is such as to cause epistemological problems, of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.

[@andrewmorgan81]

Oh you get Campy or you don't. Love the pods, happy birthday Jimmy, and IMHO if you're going to put on a ladies only event get a clued-up PR person to help. Ride on!

[@junkDubey]

best episode ever

[@TheKrazykrayon]

Referring to what bike brand puts a TV on outside of the bike box : I purchased a bike several years ago from Poseidon Bikes in the US and it came with a TV depicted on the side of the box. I highly recommend the Poseidon X, fantastic frame for the price!

[@HardcountsAdventures]

I just switched to micro shift sword from Shimano 105 and I like it a lot.

[@htonmusic]

im someone who started riding in covid. still riding... 20 bikes later

[@jakobjas4212]

The vintage bike guy did mean modern bikes as in today's bikes. He was on the fence about vintage bikes as he likes them, but he was noticed some people who ride 80's bikes think they are superior to people on modern carbon bikes so he's unsure about the sort of person whol likes vintage bikes.

[@lesliereissner4711]

I have ridden l'Eroica twice and the atmosphere is terrific as people are there to have fun. As an owner of a number of 1980s bikes I am under no illusion that they are superior to current ones except maybe in aesthetics but given modern parts classic steel frames are excellent...but not l'Eroica compliant! It is also traditional for cyclists to sneer at other people's bikes so there you are...

[@MartinBrown-mb7pz]

Love yoour show. I usually watch it twice.

[@kipcc3918]

Poseidon Bikes does it, they send bike frames on a box with a TV picture on it, I thought it was genius, but the one who delivered it was UPS so it was still damaged (the box but not the frame). 😅

[@mlee6136]

My ultegra looks and feels very solid. In fact the 105 groupset are as well.

[@shepshape2585]

Nobody’s beating Andrew Feather if he competes, but best of luck and most importantly, have fun! Also, it’s insane to name anyone GOAT. The best you can do is say someone is the best of their generation. Rules change, equipment changes, training and nutrition changes etc… Merckx was the best of his generation and Pogacar is the best of his.

[@TwooOnee]

Thanks!

[@BrawndoDrinker]

Damn, I just got called older than vintage and "no longer the current standard"... time to call the DEI desk at Cade Media to complain about ageism. 🙃

[@PepeDalinShow]

I think nobody likes AI generated images. It just looks so artificial, inauthentic or meh (lack of effort).

[@daredemontriple6]

I hate that AI takes away from artists, and I hate that they have chosen to portray the typical 'barbie' on bikes rather than actual female riders, or as you guys pointed out, basically any other kind of physique, but I feel like "Hugely sexualized" is a bit of a reach. Yes the riders are 'curvy', and yes they are not particularly muscular, but they don't look any more exposed or sexual than actual riders in lycra do. Lycra makes all of our curves bare and obvious, whether they be toned muscle, or a stout beer belly, and like it or not we do have curves all of us. Lycra is specifically designed to be form-fitting as we know, so like it or not our bodies are a lot more on show than usual in lycra. People don't like to talk about it, but you can see all of the male rider's bulges plain as day, just as you can see all of the female rider's breasts. It's just anatomy, nothing we need to be so scared of, and we're all adults so we can agree to rise above that childish level of prudish covering and focus on the sport, rather than the anatomy of those competing. Yes, a number of the the depicted riders appear to have a partially unzipped jersey but who can name a single stage of any pro race where riders didn't have their jersey's unzipped? Otherwise, jersey and shorts is standard attire for road racing, and the positions on the bike are pretty normal-looking to me. All in all, I think it's a totally bizarre and poor choice to depict women's cycling as they have done. Especially given the caliber of female cyclists who'd probably be all to happy to help promote a good event. I've seen a lot worse from genuine companies in the past though On the subject of bike boxes for flying - there is a reason flight cases are called flight cases. For those that don't know, flight cases are the (usually) black wooden boxes with aluminum edge and corner protectors. They usually have handles on 5 or all 6 sides, and plenty of them, and they almost always have wheels on at least the bottom, and sometimes on another side as well. They are designed specifically to take a beating, and be very easy to manhandle. Pelican USA cases (And by extension the many cheaper knock-offs) were the only other kind of case that was seen anywhere close to as often as flight cases were when I was a roadie (The rock and roll kind, I still am the cycling kind). Cardboard boxes, though convenient for the person packing them, are a real pain to work with, especially when they're big. They don't have handles (handle cutouts can't be trusted as they often rip), and cardboard is a slippy surface, especially when wearing gloves, so you can only hold an edge or corner really, which is obviously problematic if the box itself is wider than your wingspan!

[@taylorbrenn7191]

I got a scicon hard shell bike box for $100. This lady was getting divorced and selling all her husband's stuff out of the storage shed. She had no idea that thing was worth x10 what I paid!

[@SioLazer]

26:30 I'm in PDX, OR, USA: Francis, I know you've ridden here before. It's correct that the empty roads were enjoyed for maybe 6 months of the pandemic. Drivers became terrifyingly dangerous after that point. Enforcement was essentially non existent and has only recently started to come back. So, for us here, it's not just an issue of more cars suddenly. Here in North America, we're the purveyors of car culture. So the entitlement takes on a life threatening level. Basically, this was bound to happen anywhere that doesn't prioritize alternative forms of transportation. The reason is that along with the bike boom, there was a car sales boom, too. People who didn't buy a bike when they couldn't take the bus due to covid fears bought cars. Vote people. Vote for the infrastructure.

[@junkandcrapamen]

Re: La Reine's response ... "In this year's event we've finally had the possibility to produce some photographs and even some video coverage of our event." Because no one involved had a phone until now? lol Those AI images are totally sexist, totally a stereotype and totally lame.

[@jim2111]

I love Ride London, my family have been taking part for 7 times now. Ita a great highlight foe my aon who have been in in since he 2 years old and last year at 11.

[@ish474]

Finding out how young Jimmy is explained so much about his opinions on the way things should be. I think at that age I would probably be much closer to agreeing with him on more things what age has a way of changing you. It doesn't mean I think he's wrong Just that I don't feel the same way often. Love the podcast, and the other content, and Emily.

[@compassionsix]

I got a box from the local bike shop, the box they gave me had a picture of a TV on the side.

[@__uorson]

i think wiretapping is the action and the wire is the tool used for such action (presumably connected to a mic!). you perform wiretapping through the use of wire. :) ESL view here, by the way.

[@roxstone9283]

Triatheletes tried diving into the frozen lake and slid across, and thats how ice skating was invented.

[@__uorson]

oh dear....! suddenly re thinking that videoclip for "bicycle race" by queen...... my favorite band in the world. times _have_ changed, thank god. (off off off topic from last week, a quick note: formula one tire pressures _cannot_ be remotely altered.)

[@PrzemK]

Hilarious as always 😂 so funny

[@rptbr]

I'm really surprised you haven't touched on / covered cycling being heavily featured in the Americas Cup this year.

[@mattymallen]

Great episode guys 🎉 enjoyed watching with my partner and sipping coffee. Emily we liked your jumper, where is it from?

[@bgrutterdds]

Poseidon puts a TV image on their boxes.

[@joharimohd6390]

31 years old....happy birhtday in advance but Francis and emilies reaction says otherwise 😂😂😂

[@leissp1]

Ongoing Campagnola saga. I am a diehard Campy fan for over 50 years. I also have Shimano on a couple bikes. I'm putting it out there the New Campy Chorus mechanical rim brake group set is the group set for the people. The price is really good and it works very well. I recently had this group set installed on my Rando bike replacing my 23 year old Campy Chorus 9 speed groupset....lets see Shimano or Sram last that long....and I'm still using the hubs

[@ChrisRufus76]

The Silvertown tunnel is on the end of the A2 effectively a motorway, so it isn't safe to ride a bike on.

[@nbartlett6538]

Making it unsafe for bikes was a deliberate decision by TfL and Sadiq Khan.

[@kacperjajko4257]

Why is everyone still talking about Eddy Merckx in the goat debate? He has been caught doping which in my mind completely disqualifies him in this debate.

[@rasmusvedel]

But as was all his competitors so he was still the best in the sport at the time.

[@johnmarchant8879]

Poseidon Bikes puts a TV on the side of their box. Still have the box.

[@_PaperbagGhost]

@48:39 Uplift desk ships their standing desks in a box with TV images on it, if it helps lol

[@rossreith1135]

The brand with TV’s on their boxes is Kona bikes

[@freiguy20]

I"ve seen it for Poseidon bicycles as well

[@vinvincent7626]

I doubt any men would be offended if there’s a picture of men cyclists looking like the 300 spartans 🤷‍♂️

[@c3h4organic97]

These poor AI ladies dont even got saddles........

[@EmmaMurray-z5l]

It was vanmoof that had a TV image on the side of the box

[@Matthew-qw6bi]

I feel like there must be regulations to consider other road users when designing and building new road infrastructure. If not that's mental.

[@giordanostramare]

About the bianchi…Honestly if it’s a trining bike would be even better because they were titanium!!!

[@justinsparrey177]

AI imagery is just bloody lazy imo 🤔

[@Mike-London_se19]

Surely before the tunnel existed the situation was very similar to closing the tunnel now. ???

[@Titanius1066]

I would have sworn that Jimmy was at least 40.

[@gregmarcus3064]

I agree 100 percent about Campy. They are boutique now. Then stay there. Ltwoo and the rest will fill the gap.

[@HoudiniNL]

If you are not comfortable with some imagery of an event, you are absolutely free to express your discontent to the creators. But that is where it ends. It does not give you any right to make any demands. Your discontent is your own problem.

[@wandering_pete]

"If you are not comfortable with some imagery of an event, you are absolutely free to express your discontent to the creators. But that is where it ends It does not give you any right to make any demands" Freedom of speech is a democratic value that gives you the right to express yourself, which includes voicing a demand. However it does not mean a company has to do so. That would conflict with the other democratic value of freedom of choice.

[@nbartlett6538]

What demands did they make?

[@splashpit]

I live in Australia and any male sporting event has un achievable body images in cartoon style which I guess precedes AI images and we have to just accept it do the same with women and there’s an uproar.

[@splashpit]

I’m surprise the airlines haven’t just come out with a plastic stackable box with handles and said you need to buy one and that’s what needs to be presented at check in or you rent one when you get to the airport and you must have a bag that fits .

[@marcchasse2677]

Bike trip to Asia with Ben and Lawrence… 👀

[@statlerjr]

Why did you waste so much time talking about some AI images? There are enough genuinely interesting topics in cycling. If someone wants to be offended, just let them, you can't please everyone.

[@MrLeovdmeer]

Merckx was on doping. So Pogi is far better.

[@gvg0123]

Picture of a television on your bike box was done by VanMoof

[@cyclingonandoffroad]

If you want to see and maybe even ride a genuine pantani ownwed Bianchi. Get in touch with Belgian singer Guido Belcanto who was given one after he sang a song for Pantani. There are clips of them meeting on youtube.

[@tyneskipper]

inputs AI prompt: Jimmi Nichols, sexy cyclist, cade media (sarcasm obvs)

[@Bruce_Chang]

The responses from that organization about the AI images, sounds like a bunch of AI bros... Tell me It's a room full of dudes making these decisions (about an event for women), without telling me it's a bunch of dudes making these decisions.

[@marshalloram1999]

My Poseidon bike came in a TV box.

[@BoredHistoryTeacher]

Poseidon bikes ship with a TV on the box also

[@malcontent_1]

I _think_ the TV/bike box company may be Poseidon

[@peterthomas8053]

Yep, Francis is one of the 'Yates Triplets' for sure.🤪😉😂

[@kimaboe]

The imagery is cringe and bad, the responses they had both in comments and DMs are completely nuts and they deserve any pushback they get. Even with English as a second language, calling someone a terrorist and a fascist for suggesting your AI images are oversexualised (as almost all AI images are) is so wild it is impossible to take these people seriously as event organisers. Someone with that level of impulse control should not be in charge of a sporting event of any scale.

[@splashpit]

I’m on the fence with this one because if you look at any iron man advertisement the images are muscular and un achievable body looks but it’s how the men that do it want to be represented as being , also as the event media said you don’t bend the knee for 1% , we will see how it pans out with how the women that compete in the event or not .

[@lazylonewolf]

Can pay for expensive bikes, but not commissioned promotional artwork smh

[@allchangepersonaltraining8411]

Kona did boxes with pics of tv on the side