Frank Furedi: The younger generation has been infantilised by the baby boomers - IQ2 debates

[@catfancier270]

The idea that being independent has been the standard for hundreds of years is ridiculous. One hundred years ago people lived multi generationally on family farms, at least in the US. When they did move out, it was often just around the corner from parents and grandparents.

[@mogznwaz]

Yes, the concept of the 'teenager' is a new thing and has only come about due to unprecedented levels of wealth since the 2nd world war and increased liberalism. In the old days more rigid social structures meant boys were men at 15, looking after the family from a young age and instilled with a sense of duty and responsibility.

[@wakeupuk3860]

Brilliant speech that is spot on both in terms of the generation of today in 'expecting' and that education, housing, jobs is their right but also my generation (ie sixties) who threw out and fought against the common sense of our parent's generation who thought was wrong. Furedi's example of the 30 year old stating he is comfortable, is looked after by his mum, can play his games every night and a very worrying feature of parents wanting stay parents all their lives is spot on. I at 15 could not wait to get away from my parents and the rotting peeling water paper, flea ridden bed, leaking drip on the basin that only had cold water in the first bedsit ( in Camden Town, London) I ever had was horrible but the pride and prestige I got from my mates when I went home to parents in a small town in the country side was far more important. It also was also the drive for me to study and get qualifications that allowed me to get out of that horrible bedsit .

[@miriams76]

We grew up with grandparents who had major PTSD from WW2 which made us very suspicious of anyone who advocates war.

[@strongdecaf3729]

Wages in USA flat since 70s - housing and healthcare costs raised exorbitantly.

[@infjintegrityvsnarcissism7295]

College too

[@del5582]

@John Taylor Real estate agents set real estate prices and not the Boomer homeowners listing the properties? Nor the Boomers who supported extreme immigration policies and zoning laws for decades, pricing their kids out of the real estate market to pad their own retirement? All you had to do as a Boomer is buy a house at 1970s prices, pay off the mortgage, and then by selling the family home you could spend the next quarter century in retirement. You were showered with money for just existing.

[@mogznwaz]

I have 2 middle class liberal professionals amongst my in-laws and they are so vociferously and arrogantly sure of their superiority it makes me sick. The tone they use to sneer at working class plebs who protest against Islamisation, who ate patriotic and who resist vaccine mandates is eye opening. They sit there and deride 'nationalists' but think it's marvellous that their Italian and Kiwi dinner guests can wax lyrical about the superiority of their home nations and slag off Britain and those awful thick Brexit voters. Britain and its people are held in contempt. The place they have chosen to live, work and are having a baby in (that's not imported nationalism daaahling, that's diversity!)

[@DavidDadiani]

This speech is so relevant now regarding all the BLM demonstrations, all the ,,I am offended" crisis, all the cancel culture and radical political correctness. We have people who can not cope with simple real life challenges.

[@DavidDadiani]

@Russ Ingram yes sure they do, Marilyn Manson is just the same.

[@juliesullivan5409]

I get embarrassment by proxy for people who are cleary too pig ignorant to realize they should be getting embarrassed on their own behalf, so I cringed for Laurie Penny here: 'I'm not sure whether Mr Furedi has ever met any young people, but'... Yeow, what a spoiled brat. Clearly an example of the infantilised generation, I guess..

[@hud86]

I was born in the 80s and grew up in a defunct mill town. I dropped out of college after a week and traveled the US living out of vehicles and trailers for a decade. I flew aircraft, built houses, drove trucks, and sometimes clocked 80 hours a week. I still couldn't afford a home. I'm going back to school now because I have a child and living out of you cars will have them taken by DHS. Im floored by how unachieved and untalented 95% of the "educated" people are and often find myself daydreaming in class of all the real education I gained by doing things and I'm saddened by how disconnected the education has come from reality

[@karljuhnke8882]

I was born 1963. I thought my generation was going to stop all the greed and look after the planet. Then I realised I was wrong and that my generation was the greediest ever. Then I realised I was wrong when I saw what the next generation expected from life. A quick progression backwards. Perhaps this generation will do better? But when I watch them litter all around themselves even with all the environmental education they received I think probably not. We are moving further and further from nature. Corporatism is to blame. Destroying families. Removing fathers. Now removing mothers. It will be up to the little people to make our governments and capitalists accountable. How is your new game console going? Love your new hair. Too far to walk to school. Take the car. Why should I help? Some great kids out there will be swamped by the greedy. Like every generation.

[@Celrador]

"Corporatism". It's called capitalism. The criticism on this system, even though it has its positive sides, has been around for over a century now. You are not saying anything new here. (If anything you are, thanks to the time you were born in, probably heavily propagandized to not demonize capitalism too much and instead refer to its downsides by a different name, as if it would be a phenomenon that could be seperated from the intrinsic functioning of the system.)

[@spiritmama]

@@Celrador I have a friend who refers to it all as “corporate communism”.

[@Celrador]

@@spiritmama Ye. Seems like my hypothesis about the propaganda/priming that happens in our time is correct. :P You might ask him, in how far the corporations are owned by everyone in the society, since the definition of communism boils down to a question of ownership over the means of production (everyone in society owning the means of production equally). ;-)

[@alienzenx]

aaaand...Laurie Penny opens her mouth. Ughh.

[@StonefieldJim4]

The way 'the protester' has, today, become idealised only confirms what Furedi argues: that what passes for 'protest' today is nothing so much as a mirror to the evacuation of political goals across society.

[@adamwalker2377]

11:54 ok, are you or your peers gonna sell me a house for less than 10x the salary your children can reasonably expect to earn? 13:20 I can't believe he said that out loud and still claims to not see the irony.

[@hdeis]

Furedi has some very interesting points!

[@mjpeter3964]

The 18 Boomers that make it into Heaven are going to be pretty lonely without any "peers" to share Eternity with. The remaining 80 million are going to be Satan's foot soldiers in Hell.

[@blackbeltepic7032]

Go to any 5 star restaurant . Or hotel. Mostly baby boomers.

[@fringlumz7165]

How old are you?

[@blackbeltepic7032]

Fringlumz I am age .... go fuck yourself .

[@blackbeltepic7032]

Fringlumz how old are you? I'd bet a million bucks your greedy as fuck. Prob 67.

[@KevsUploads]

Instagram says no 😂

[@macky1660]

ok boomer let me just work 60 hours a week just to afford an apartment

[@donaldhysa4836]

People had to work a lot harder before

[@macky1660]

@@donaldhysa4836 If by "before" you're referring to is serfdom in the Medieval era, then we will go with that. Serfs worked around 16 hours a day in the summer and 8 hours in the winter, but they had a more of a leisure work day, with frequent breaks. They had their breakfast in the morning, mid morning break, lunch break, afternoon nap, and dinner breaks which is closer to human nature than working 8 hours a day with a timed 30 minute break. There was plenty of slack periods inbetween meals when there was no work to be done. Although life wasn't easy for serfs due to disease, plague, and lack of hygiene. The work was also not easy and required toiling the fields. Their structure of their workday is something desirable than constantly working non-stop for 10-13 hours a day for low income families in the US and the "if you got time to lean you got time to clean" mantra that workplaces use isn't natural for humans, people need breaks in order to re-energize. Serfs definitely did work harder, but they could take a break if needed, but in modern workplaces it is almost penalized for simply taking a breather. Artisan worked an average of 9 hours a day, but that's only if you're born into an Artisan family.

[@donaldhysa4836]

@@macky1660 Yeah you have it harder than medival serfs yeah of course stunning and brave. Conservatives owned Ben Shapiro style -_-

[@macky1660]

@@donaldhysa4836 ok reactionary

[@donaldhysa4836]

@@macky1660 I dont know what that means in this context bro but you are high off your ass

[@ultimategoobah7212]

I also just disagree with pretty much all of his assumptions. He seems to assume that wanting to live with your family causes a person to be less productive. I mean, just think about that.. that just sounds insane and disconnected. he's completely ignoring the core problems associated with not wanting express yourself or do perhaps the more intelligent thing or whatever it may be that he thinks people should be behaving like, and not making any connections to why that might be getting worse.. and this situation is not simple, it involves tons of different factors.. from the educational system, to family structure, and so on. he is just blowing through one of the most complicated situations this earth has ever known with.. oh, its just there parents fault for being too touchy feely or some nonesense. probably not, sir, probably not.

[@STOPjammietime]

This analysis of the situation is far too simplistic. The circumstances in which millennials find themselves are not imaginary; the fact that many young people find themselves in a common situation is not because their mums like having them upstairs to coddle (and because they secretly enjoy it). It's a combination of political, social and economic realities that are easy to distinguish and identify - if, unlike Mr Furedi, you can be bothered to look beyond your own lazy prejudices to find them. And he also contradicts himself - first of all he says that the idea of a generation, and a generational mode of behaviour, is completely ludicrous - and then he says that the baby boomers infantilise their children. So which is it, Frank? Are baby boomers a homogenous group or not? Does politics have a generational aspect or not? Make up your mind. Just a lot of very poorly conceived, prejudiced ranting really. Pretty much no different to listening to an irate uncle venting after a few too many ports at Christmas.

[@KevsUploads]

STOPjammietime you are an idiot’

[@tonysantos6345]

Precisely to the point.

[@MadMax22]

Kev’s Uploads I don’t understand. What about what he said was idiotic? It sounds smarter than what you said because all you did was dismiss him and not contest his argument. “The worst thing to call somebody is crazy. It's dismissive. "I don't understand this person. So they're crazy." That's bullshit. These people are not crazy. They strong people. Maybe their environment is a little sick.” That’s Dave Chappelle and those are words I live by.

[@donaldhysa4836]

"Gibe me munie old peopo"

[@btwbrand]

The 13:15 point made that the younger people of today need to stand up and make their futures a better situation for them selves and those after them is being held back by those aged individuals who currently make important decisions with little to no regard for the needs and request of the younger people. Polls can be done showing 85-90-95% support for a change and again and again those older individuals who hold the position and ability to enact these changes are gatekeeping that overwhelming request from becoming a reality. If a young person were to make way to a position with ability to participate in making change they are again conducted by senior members who control what is decided and how it is decided. People have become powerful in their roles and power is often not voluntarily relinquished. Asking the younger generations to make things better for them selves and actively stopping them from doing so is having your cake and eating it. When I was young I was told " you may be smart, know more, learn faster, do better than those around you but you will not advance because your hair still has color." To be told by someone I respected, listened to, and impressed in my daily activities that my ability didn't matter because I was young and not in charge of my progress was a sad lesson.

[@leostoltoy]

The most important difference between protests of the 1960s/70s and of my generation (Gen X) is one that actually supports Furedi's argument. The Baby Boomers campaigned to change the world. They protested to stop the Vietnam War because they thought (I believe wrongly) that would help people in Vietnam. The defining protest demand for my generation, is for someone else to pay for our University studies. The sense of entitlement of young people today is embarassingly infantile.

[@fabienmerteuil6226]

@Leos Toltoy How about some compensation for the world we inherited. All sorts of pressures (growing debt, terrorism, global warming etc.) are imposed upon us as a result of the previous generation and simultaneously we have less resources to survive on. That makes us very vulnerable in potentially hard(er) times. Sustainability is the key.

[@matane2465]

That's not why they protested the Vietnam War. They protested the Vietnam War to avoid the draft. Read "A Generation of Sociopaths How The Baby Boomers Betrayed America." They didn't give a crap about the people in Vietnam, that's why they stopped protesting as soon as they were no longer able to be drafted for that war. And didn't care when the Vietnamese later had to fight invading Chinese and invading Cambodians.

[@fabienmerteuil6226]

Who is not “infantilised” for opportunities. If all the opportunities go to those already established what hope is there it “trickles down”?? upward mobility is dying as a result of intense competition+efficiency(capitalism) there is no comparison to 60s+70s. Demand for youth is much less than supply (it’s not that hard to understand). During crisis, whether financial environmental, social the vulnerable groups will always suffer more than those already established and right now the baby boomers have imposed on us a range of pressures(GFC, unsustainable debt, global warming, approach to human resources, terrorism etc.)which we now have to live with.

[@tommack9395]

I'm a baby-boomer technically, born in '63. My children grew up are far from being infants ... they're self-reliant, responsible and accountable adults now - though sometimes, I still think our youngest (he's going on 22) is still often a bull in a china-shop. The educational systems with the support of governments have infantilised the generations following us.... luckily I had great parents and my spouse and I raised our children and were involved with their education.

[@johnstewart7025]

I was talking to someone who remembered being denied a credit card in the 1970s when he had a job. After the U.S. jacked up interest rates to kill inflation, they also helped kill unions who could no longer pressure employers for raises. And, then with interest rates stablized at much higher levels, Wall Street was very happy to offer everyone credit cards. Now, it seems all of us eventually got used to "instant everything" thanks to easy credit. Well, that 30 year "party" got a terrific wakeup call in 2008. But, it seems that consumers have learned little and Wall Street the same.

[@Falconlibrary]

I was born in 1962. You have to segment Baby Boomers. The ones who are the real problem were born in the 1950s.

[@davidschlessinger9945]

My boomer parents were each married three times. Grew up in upper middle class households, had cars and college payed for (plus it was really cheap). Dropped out, did the hippie thing, then became very materialistic and selfish in their elder years, with good careers. Lived in nice houses, drove nice cars. What they left for their children was- drug abuse, poverty, debt, lack of jobs, destruction of the middle class, environmental devastation- thanks

[@davidschlessinger9945]

In other words this guy is an idiot

[@fringlumz7165]

This man escaped from tyranny as a child. You had the chance to transform your challenges into a meaningful life, but you clearly failed. That's your fault, not your parents. No-one cares about your self-inflicted injuries.

[@KevinSmith-xt8xr]

MAN fuck you , if we literally are doing everything what our parents said and only to still get fuck over then tells us what are we doing wrong if you are the person with the answer

[@karljuhnke8882]

if you are a drug addict with no money or job, but lots of debt it sounds like you need to get off your lazy backside and make it change. Good luck.

[@Clemburke1111]

Uh , why dont you try to not feel sorry for your self , my parents the "The Silent Generation" had it much harder and became very successful

[@Frohicky1]

Why does hair colour tell me so much.

[@sleepypoodle]

My father was one of only two pupils in his year at grammar school in the 1950's to attend university (after the obligatory two years of National Service) - afforded only because he was incredibly hard-working and particularly intelligent and was awarded a full scholarship to study architecture. He was a first generation WW II Polish immigrant (refugee) who arrived in the U.K. aged 12 unable to speak English, having fled Poland following its invasion and spent six years in refugee camps in India, Siberia and Iran. Today's culture of 'going to uni' has become an undiscriminating 'right of passage' and seemingly for the majority - more of a social-developmental cultural experience - rather than an academic one - often with appalling A level grades and no real academic ability, facilitated by the promotion of POLYTECHNICS to 'UNIVERSITIES' and creation of a bunch of 'Mickey Mouse' courses to accommodate the unexceptional 'student'....who is then indignant about having to secure a loan to pay for the privilege of further education! If this absurdly inappropriate expectation for so many schoolchildren had instead been replaced by the far more suitable option of a diverse choice of 'APPRENTICESHIP' SCHEMES - in which the teen actually learned a useful vocation, training for a specific skill or job...whilst also being PAID, then the problem of tens of thousands of university 'graduates' with third rate degrees, poor employment prospects and financial debts would be solved.

[@laughingachilles]

+sleepypoodle This is why I am in support of bringing the grammar schools back. In the UK the comprehensive schools were brought in because an ideology existed that everyone was equal and grammar schools were elitist. The truth is that we are not all equal, either through natural ability or early life experiences, usually a mix of the two. Grammar schools were brilliant at allowing social mobility. It didn't matter how poor you were, if you were smart and hard working then you would get into a grammar school and likely a good university. Your education meant something because the system was respected and you knew it. Your fathers experience perfectly demonstrates this, he was smart and hard working, so he got to study at university and leapt up the social ladder. I had to deal with idiots in my comprehensive disrupting the class all the time. In a grammar school they would have been kicked out (if they even got in) so the rest of us could study properly. University funds are now being diverted away from important things (science, mathematics, engineering etc) and into producing 8 psychology graduates for each job place, communications graduates who have no real applicable skills in the job market, and gender study graduates who have absolutely no useful skills at all.

[@fringlumz7165]

You are right about Grammar Schools. A lack of upward pressure from the appalling state schools that replaced them has allowed weakling Etonians to assume office. The worst aspects of the decadent end of the English class system have reasserted themselves, all because of an educational model that was supposed to eradicate inequality.

[@laughingachilles]

Fringlumz I have to say that it's sort of genius, getting the public to support the comprehensive system by convincing them it offers greater equality and more opportunities for their children, when in fact it does the opposite.

[@fringlumz7165]

Laughing Achilles What better way of impoverishing the working classes - both financially and culturally - than by broadening non-contributory benefits, by assigning social housing on the basis of need and by relativising the Butler Act education system. If you do this while shaming them for offering non-approved views on immigration and their own national and cultural identity, then voila: you can drive them from the party they created to protect their own interests at the same time. Not that I'm saying this was done on purpose, of course; why would anyone engineer a pampered minority who have sensitivity without strength, and a disaffected majority who have strength without sensitivity?

[@laughingachilles]

Fringlumz While I agree with you generally I do think it's important that we support vulnerable people who are unable to support themselves. If someone is physically disabled to the point of not being able to work then don't you think we should take care of them? The same goes for housing, the costs of people being homeless tend to be higher than giving them a place to live when you factor in policing, healthcare and that sort of thing. he system. We have as you say made things too broad, it's not as wonderful to live off of benefits as you seem to make out, but it's also far too easy to claim some of them. Grammar schools were a great thing but I can't see them coming back as the mere suggestion of them results in cries of inequality. If you dare to point out that not everyone is born with the same intellect then you'll find yourself voted out of office rather quickly.

[@MrClingclong]

"Hey, he's speaking common sense. I'm scared, I need to find a safe space to hide in and suck my thumb."

[@maxilopez1596]

"I moved into a shared flat in Kentish Town"... Wow he really knows struggle!! (for those who don't know, Kentish town is just about the poshest area of London)

[@lindoncoffee]

Mr Maxi Psycho with 7 other people and an outside loo. How posh.

[@allenomalley4014]

Kentish Town isn’t perhaps you have confused it with Kensington or Knightsbridge

[@matthewnelson4298]

Thank you girl with red hair you actually have a brain in your head

[@dnmr1000]

Brilliant analysis of the younger generation however, from the point of view of an European reality. Frank said that in historical times nearly everybody was renting, and rarely anybody owned a house. Fact, e.g. in Germany even now only about 50% are owners, but in Australia nearly 90%! A house here is a sort of security for the person,when she they reach the retirement age. Also, in The US in the 50ties and 60ties there was a boom in building affordable houses, which created waste suburbs. The American Dream came true then for very many people, who even grew up to a new American middle class, previously not known over there. The protesters of the 60ties in America, the hippies and the others were the children of this middle class, intelligent high school, or college kids, who actively discussed the politics and social issues. They truly wanted to change the hypocritical world of the parents, but maybe because they did not need to labour to survive? They wanted to go back to the nature and were against the artificial technological world. They started the idea of free love and experiments with drugs, true. And went astray many times. And lost. And did not change the world, sadly. America has changed too and now, and there is no intelligent middle class any more, and also no protests. They need to work again to survive. In Europe traditionally, there is a social security for everybody yet, but the intellectual discussions died basically too. Conformity and being the part of the same flock replaced individuality, basically. Maybe we should blame the media, which shape the youth today from the cradle? Or the rudimentary only education? Without any social or historical contexts? Pity.

[@spiritmama]

They may have wanted to change the world, but that was because it was in the songs they listened to. It was at the protests that were held. Just like it is now.. just different. The drugs were pushed by our government tho.. but now, its thru big pharma, etc. We are repeating it. Question is.. is the world smart enough to realize it and change course. 🤔 People don’t have the attention spans they once did.

[@andrewgardner3092]

F’Ing more #furedigenius. Keep listening

[@mischr13]

Back in MY day I had to walk to school. Uphill. Both ways.

[@Sixrabbbit]

Boomers are American / Canadian to a lesser extent

[@CC3GROUNDZERO]

That "irrelevant" ratio is directly correlated with overall societal factors like health and happiness. So you're completely wrong.

[@joes4990]

Boomers. Need I say more?

[@Lakeslover1]

We have a house because we went without things to get it. We worked for it and we made sure because we had a mortgage that we had a job. We payed our taxes and National insurance so we could be given health care and education for our children. It was very hard , we were happy to pay for the vulnerable in our society but now I’m a bed blocker !!! Young people just want to have “fun”. They leach off mum and dad if unemployed have the time to demonstrate.

[@CC3GROUNDZERO]

I'm not poor and rich. Unlike you, I'm also not trolling on behalf of the one percent who have increased their share of the wealth from around 10% in the "socialist" year of 1980 to more than a third of all privately owned wealth today. Also, you are an unemployed middle-aged man. Nuff said.

[@mistakenmillenial6834]

11:35 "The wealth of the future will be created in the future. We don't live in a static world" I agree with most of what he is saying but the above statement is patently false. The worlds resources are indeed finite. If young people today cannot muster the economic growth necessary to live on their own it is because there is no more capacity for economic growth. The notion of infinite resources and infinite prosperity is false and leads to this kind of sophistry. Of course he will use his disdain for the young man as evidence, and ignore the empirical data that says that real wages and living standards have actually fallen in 20 years.

[@karljuhnke8882]

Nonsense. You can buy more stuff now than ever. Cheaper. A high standard of living to me is bushwalking. Maybe look at your values.

[@donaldhysa4836]

@@karljuhnke8882 "Gibe me muney old pepo!"

[@donaldhysa4836]

These idiots keep talking about how much they are concerned about "muh finite resources" while they live the most consumerist driven lives in the history of humanity

[@ComradeAgopian]

Furedi really left the Revolutionary Communist Party far behind .

[@markofsaltburn]

Oh no, he hasn't...

[@jeffgelman23]

if you say this, you are probably poor. please try to work hard and make money, instead of blaming others for your situation.

[@pauld9561]

Ok boomer