Frank Zappa appearing on the Mike Douglas Show (28. October 1976)

[@rj7826]

You'll never see TV like this again. Great interviewer, no moronic attempts at humour, genuine interest in what the guest has to say and lets him say it without interruption.

[@buckodonnghaile4309]

Sad but true. I cut the cable years ago but the few times I've caught late night talk shows it's left me less than impressed.

[@TrinidadJamesWoods]

And no shoehorning of social justice nonsense into the conversation where it doesn't belong.

[@PolyQuasi]

Was kind of surprised at how mutually respectful Frank was. Expected his trademark snarkiness, but he seemed very sincere and reverent towards Mike.

[@auximenies]

Great is a stretch. Mike is definitely respectful and allows a conversation. It's just that his questions are often rudimentary and don't do much to elicit much more than a simple answer. The onus is then on the interviewee to take it further. A good interviewer has researched their subject well enough to ask questions that will allow them to open up.

[@yohomero5433]

fz music is either funny or boring

[@TerrierToughGuy]

Ya man, Zappa is an acquired taste but once you acquire it you never lose it. What a great human being

[@TheUyotube]

I knew the name Zappa....but I didn’t know or fully realize the artist...probably because radio wouldn’t touch him....he was so ahead of his time doing things artists are doing now being independent.....giving the middle finger 🖕 too record labels...because I’m making my own record label....releasing my own material with creative control....he produced most of...if not all his records....he is a pioneer and probably the first independent artist.....Zappa is a fine wine that gets better with age and I’m finally popping the cork...and All tell you.... I like the taste....one of my soon too be....favorite artists

[@JCfromDC2]

Saw my first Zappa concert in DC 1970. Was hooked and listened almost exclusively to his music for well over ten years.

[@johnkulpowich5260]

I remember picking up only in it for the money. Laughing my as off. Brought it home smoke some weed. Hooked ever since

[@deboratracz3511]

Overnight sensation - best Zappa album

[@johnkulpowich5260]

@@deboratracz3511 to me Frank Zappa is the led Zepplin of Jazz

[@bluraynation5188]

One of the things about Mike Douglas that made him such a good talk show host was that he embraced silence. He didn’t try to fill up every single second with dialogue, but instead would just let conversation happen naturally and actually take the time to listen to what the guest was saying. This is lacking in practically every single talk show host currently.

[@mikestevenson576]

Great point, BluRay. In fairness, it was a lot easier to do that in a 3 channel universe with no remote controls. Viewers won't wait for things to play out naturally today.

[@RebekahCurielAlessi]

Yes. Silence is precious...

[@cuisinecousin]

Frank demoed all the influences for the people, and he tore it up! Also JJ! Well said on Mike Douglas which was great non school day watching at 10AM

[@Rearmostbean]

No note cards either. Gives time for Zappa, who is an odd duck, the moments to expound and if he doesn’t follow up with questions every one would want to know. Good at his craft

[@steverogers2603]

Yes. I haven’t watched many of his interviews but they are interesting for the reasons you cite. The guests are so close they are almost touching one another, and Mike’s questions and responses are real and organic. This can seem slightly awkward for a moment but ultimately is much more real.

[@toneluc57]

It’s true that Frank Zappa is an acquired taste but once you get into the music and the personality, you’re hooked for life. Thank God for Dweezil and Steve Vai that keep the music alive 🎶🎼🎸

[@notreallydavid]

I acquired it on first hearing - but sure, he's not for everyone.

[@joeyday576]

Kenny Rogers, Jimmy "JJ" Walker, and Frank Zappa (playing guitar through a little 5 watt portable Pignose amp) all on the same show. The 70's were a trip.

[@stevenpotter4471]

Watch some Dick Cavett shows from the same time period. Mike was a square but he was a good dude.

[@natenick2]

You just cant make this shit up. Frank could play!

[@cosmicman621]

I laughed my ass off when he brought out the pig “keep me charged or I’ll die...”

[@Siloguy]

Good interview too, Douglas did his research and was asking some good questions. Beats that superficial type Tonight Show interviews

[@eddiechacon5533]

When your good its so irrelevant hat you play out of, i played with someone who sat in with small crate he bought at a pawn shop, dude killed us.

[@guillaumenicolas7160]

The song is called "Black Napkins" if anyone is wondering.

[@saintrodgersdomino7384]

You are a fucking saint lol

[@TrinidadJamesWoods]

Thank you so much, I was going to lose sleep over that.

[@The_Mimewar]

Bless you my son

[@MP-kv4tg]

Thanks!!

[@picassoboy52]

It's not hard to figure out

[@namcat53]

My beautiful, young 1966-67 Delray Beach junior high Art teacher explained some people can see sounds and hear colors. I liked her right away. One day she had 20 of us paint whatever we wanted on a stripped 16mm film section. She randomly assembled the now amazingly painted film strips, put it in the projector, turned off the lights, turned the switch on and played Frank Zappa's brand new Freak Out LP. Not many of us had heard of Frank at that point. All our teenage minds were blown and I've been a big fan of Frank ever since. She was the best teacher I've ever had. Thank You!

[@Herfinnur]

Sounds like the kind of first teacher that artists are sparked by. She sounds so cool!

[@WellStudied]

It's called synesthesia.

[@robbienewporter9281]

❤

[@glennwinters3687]

That's the kind of open minded progress that frightens the ignorant and arrogant that want to take us back to the dark ages... Change happens, call it progress or evolution. But it's scary for some and they revolt. Embrace it though and you can learn every day.

[@springcreekmusicfestival856]

Had a high school art teacher that fits that description (66-70). All four years, culminating in fine arts senior year. Without a doubt she was the most influential teacher I ever had. On many levels. 😍 DHS '70

[@peternewman1179]

The great thing about Frank’s television appearances and performances was that he knew the show’s house musicians were good enough to play his provided charts and sheet music to back him up! 👍🎼

[@starfishsystems]

Mostly it's just an easy groove between i and iv in C#m. The backline would just stay in the groove with it. Then at 7:24 things shift into a major key and the challenge begins.

[@evanmorris1178]

In 15 years he improved a lot from playing the bicycle!

[@bruceh92]

That was beautiful. What a talent Frank Zappa.

[@charleschidsey6192]

I grew up watching the Mike Douglas Show in the 60’s and 70’s and basically took it for granted. Now watching this clip in my mid-sixties, I realize what a sincere man and excellent interviewer he was; really a class act. Too bad television has degenerated to its current state. There isn’t a single talk show I watch with any regularity any more.

[@ShmuelWeintraub]

You and me both, Charles. You don't know whatcha got until it's gone, as the lady said.

[@weirdead829]

@@ShmuelWeintraub I concur

[@timhoovermusicman]

I watch whatever show has somebody on that I want to see.

[@Mr39036ce]

Very true and makes you realize we made a terribly wrong turn. If we only could figure out where?

[@careip]

AMEN.

[@dchristy56]

This still holds up 47 years later. Go Frank!

[@chrisoakley5830]

It sure does, I've never listened to Mr. Zappas music and I really like this selection he just played. It's different but very appealing.

[@JonathanNelsonOfficial]

More accurately, everything has mostly fallen since.

[@chefpino308]

Kenny Rogers,Jimmy Walker and Frank Zappa.. Together on a stage with the slickest interviewer of the time..Mr.Mike Dougles, good times, the 70,s!

[@bassfishingwiththeantichri2921]

Frank was the most important musician in my lifetime. Very underrated guitarist, musician, and person. He is missed dearly.

[@GetMoreMellow]

He was not underrated, not by those who meant anything in music, being rated by a bunch of vegetables, well anyone can call any vegetable.

[@ilikezappa]

Underrated ? No . Not widely known or understood by the wider world , but you ask anyone with a guitar strap around their neck. Genius.

[@myroncymbaleski1043]

Underrated no. He wasn't trying to be commercially successful with his music. When he wanted that he put Valley Girl out.

[@terryr_zappa8193]

We should all feel lucky. Sometimes people don't let it out and keep genious inside of them forever and only a few know this.

[@renoraider9817]

I have to disagree with you about him being underrated.

[@tomripsin8321]

What always impressed me about Frank Zappa is that even though he had a razor sharp, sardonic sense of humor, & didn't suffer fools gladly, if someone was being decent & respectful toward him, he'd be polite & engaging right back. Not only an excellent composer/musician, but a class act.

[@lindacooper61]

I agree totally. Still miss his output even now

[@ksteiger]

Tom Ripsin It's why I like Mike Douglas so much. he was also very respectful when other TV hoists of his generation were condescending and even mocking. And Mike did his homework. he knew about the relationship between Zappa and Alice Cooper.

[@dmann1115]

Very much like John Lennon in this regard.

[@guitarbrad]

Not just TV hosts of that generation, but up until today. There are still hosts that are disrespectful and mocking. I get that kind of thing can be funny to some people, but if you want a true interview out of someone that responds to truth and respect like Frank Zappa, it just won't work. And Mike Douglas worked.

[@jimlamanna9712]

Tom Ripsin amen

[@GreasyFilms-qc1xo]

Well, Zappa is, of course, a genius, but Mike Douglas was class, too. He tried to be respectful of things and people he didn't really understand. That's a nice spirit.

[@georgiethumbs2438]

Mike Douglas was probably one of the best interviewers out there, he was sincerely interested in his guests lives and would ask exactly the kinds of questions I would ask, like this one with Zap, I'm a huge fan and definitely would ask first how he got started. That always fascinates me about artists I admire, how the hell they got to where they are. I'm reading a book now on Jimi Hendrix and it's utterly fascinating how that guy got to where he was. ALL he did was play guitar, he depended 100% on his guitar playing to make a living, never got a job and he would literally end up sleeping in the streets at times. Can you imagine seeing Jimi Hendrix sleeping in some park? He would also play in the street, the greatest rock guitarist in history playing in the street, unreal. They said when he got out of the army, the army gave him $400 bucks which back in 1962 was about $3500 in todays money and he went to a bar and bought everyone drinks and by the end of the night he was totally broke, he spent it all in one night and when he called his dad asking if he could come home he told him no. His father was a real scumbag. When they contacted him about Jimis death the first thing out of his mouth was how much money he was getting.

[@YaoEspirito]

I just saw an interview with Anton Szandor LaVey from the Satanic Church, from about this era. The interviewer spent the whole interview insulting and belittling Mr. LaVey, who took it all with grace and cheer.

[@bluesstorm57]

GreasyFilms2016 Mike had Frank on a few times. He knew genius when he saw it.. He knew no one was playing what Frank did.

[@MASHMU]

Mike Douglas is probably one of the most underrated talk show hosts of his time. I think his show aired on weekday afternoons, an odd time even in its day. Mike was a good interviewer and booked interesting guests. I think he should be more famous.

[@kenwolf6334]

I grew up in Philly and saw the Mike Douglas show live. Ashford and Simpson were the musical guests. Can't remember who else was on. Mike was a class act and a great interviewer. Always had great guests. Who else had Zappa and Hendrix and countless others.

[@Rondo2ooo]

I like how everybody has different backgrounds, dressed different, but have such an educated and respectful conversation. I could listen for hours to this. As I grew older I learned to appreciate the quality that previous generations were exposed to. Today many people don't even have the attention span for this.

[@Scottocaster6668]

Too much judgement and the "Look at me, Look what I can do" generation.

[@DizGuys]

Yes, it's quite an indication of how much we seem to have lost in our social structure and interaction. I would love us to return to such a cordial, respectful and un self-absorbed way of being.

[@gorn9161]

I agree. "Sexual Harassment in the Workplace" Is my favorite. Amazing! Notice his tapping chops in this clip? Van Halen style. Being ahead of his time is an understatement. Eddy was probably 20 at this taping and wouldn't have their debut album for a couple of years. I never got to see Frank play. I met his son and watched him noodle around at Hollywood Guitar Center. I'll never forget getting a call one day that Eddy would be playing at this club in Malibu. "Come down before the word get's out!" So I did. We're standing outside having a drink, and I see Eddy with his guitar, walking across PCH over to us. I said: "Well That's something you don't see every day.." I really miss those days.

[@michaelsnider2484]

My favorite song by him is Lucille.

[@hisvorpalsword]

I used to work for a guitar magazine. The art director told me a story about going to the Zappa house to photograph Dweezil, and was given strict instructions by the publicist not to take any pictures of Frank. This was when he was very sick. Anyways, he sets up his equipment and is waiting for Dweezil when Frank walks in, quietly sits down in a big armchair and starts reading. The way the art director describes it, there was a big beautiful window behind him, stacks of books off to the side, the light was streaming in just right and Frank was looking very relaxed and peaceful. "All I had to do was press the button but out of respect I didn't. I've photographed almost everyone you can think of but I lie awake in bed sometimes thinking about that shot I never took."

[@PapaWheelie1]

We can all recreate that image in our minds

[@MrOddmanout1]

hisvorpalsword he’s a good man.

[@urbanprojectz]

WOw.

[@repairdepartment5918]

Well that is even better than a picture imo.

[@bcummings2187]

Best shot you never took 🤝😉 don't lie awake ....sleep well nothing to regret.

[@n0denz]

Geez Mike Douglas knew how to give an interview. Look at the schmucks we have today who try harder to be the center of attention, and everything is pre-screened and micromanaged. Mike Douglas though - what a genuine guy.

[@shaunofthedead3000]

If you think even a second of the "unscripted" video since the very first TV broadcast was in fact "unscripted" you're deluding yourself. Every millisecond has always been scripted, fake, and intending to elicit specific reactions.

[@generic53]

All the interview shows today are ONLY in the business, at their root, of BASHING Conservatism and trying to further the cause of LIBERALISM.

[@sfeigh]

@@generic53 Gee Wally, it sounds like you're BASHING Liberalism and trying to further the cause of CONSERVATISM.

[@tomn9094]

yeah beats konan sqeezing his nipple

[@raylarkin5004]

Mike was always interested in being the television purveyor of things new, different and especially a step beyond the familiarity of many. The guy was in the position to put john and yoko in his seat for a week and bring an interesting bill of fare. Loved that guy! As for the completely scripted down to the most minute detail crap, here is just one of many examples. This one occured on the tonight show when Don Rickles broke a treasured cigarette box Johnny kept on his desk while guest hosting for him. Needless to say, that incident and every bit of what ensued was as unscripted as it gets including busting in on the set of CPO Sharkey and reading Rickles the riot act! Needless to say, after all was said and done, Rickles never was on that show again. Suffice it to say, Johnny was a big voice and had his say when he wanted it.

[@ephesians.6]

Frank Zappa sitting with Jimmie Walker and Kenny Rogers. Perfection.

[@DoctorInsomnia-qw7us]

A real 70s moment

[@LarryNatalini]

Zappa' 3:22 s sons Dweezil and Ahmet performed with Kenny on Conan O'Brien. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2TOaKyofbV5kKssi=9jmIi3uLaRgtwxRX

[@CocoOPNY]

This came up in my feed probably cuz I love 70's music. I never got into Zappa. But now I am!

[@tonylara2888]

I was always curious but never really interested. Curious because most musicians that played with him are idols of mine. I really love the way he talks and he was really handsome. Now I'm into Zappa.

[@beatler11]

Got to see Frank 5 times live. Sept. 1977 for the first time. One of the best days of my life.

[@chipsawdust5816]

Saw him live once, in '80, give or take a year. Bucket list moment before there were bucket lists.

[@ronjoshua8356]

There are no words to describe the level of brilliance that Zappa had..his musicianship, his intelligence, his brutal honesty, multi-talented..just listening to him speak and hearing his complex compositions just blows me away everytime.

[@albertopanigalli4177]

Un genio assoluto un maestro incredibile R.I.P. Frank

[@deanpendarvis4917]

You've got to be kidding...this man was talentless...he was a joke,contributed nothing to the world of rock and roll..

[@kurikokaleidoscope]

Zappa can read the respect and interest and he's giving it back. Great interview.

[@christianwilliamson9752]

Agreed

[@christianwilliamson9752]

Yes. Very nice eye contact and great interview

[@renoraider9817]

Very perspicacious of you. I agree completely.

[@alekzamonski1179]

Which isn’t too common with Zappa interviews haha

[@SupraRy]

@@renoraider9817 would the better word be, perceptive ? Although they both fit, maybe yours has a more profound connection with him.

[@eveline576]

So ahead of his time. Brilliant, genius. Understated. RIP Frank. You will not be forgotten. ❤

[@fraqtiv]

Mike Douglas was the most humble host ever. Chill, never condecending. A little like Carson that way.

[@dirtlevel]

He was chill as hell, right. I really enjoyed this.

[@dirtlevel]

And I’m guessing that was mikes house band playing behind frank. They sounded good.

[@brandall101]

Also during this period Dick Cavett was equally great. Check out his interview with an obviously coked up Bowie.

[@briang764]

good call Josh....Carson made me laugh more..but Douglass was calm but in control, and never condescending...good interviewer...class

[@alanguadarrama95]

I really liked him

[@themoviedealers]

I can imagine some grandma watching this and going "I really enjoyed this Zappa person, what a lovely jazz musician. Perhaps I'll go out and find one of his record albums." !!!

[@Rhythmicons]

If they were hip in the first place they would already have his albums.

[@henryelbert403]

and then they find “don’t eat the yellow snow”

[@donnapage8894]

Me, for one

[@veronicacougar5687]

Dude, it's more like, this old grandma commenting under your comment right here, right now, was at a Frank Zappa concert the night John Lennon was shot.

[@gardenofeels6872]

A "grandma" would be around the same age as Frank Zappa would be today, and would probably be well aware of him. So your comment makes no sense.

[@jazzenthusiast4353]

I always loved the "Black Napkins" guitar solo. Frank Zappa brought such great music to our Earth.

[@coldanimal5107]

Such tasteful playing.

[@peterbartolomeo5542]

The best guitarist ...in my lifetime

[@jimli9803]

Been looking for the song all day you're a saint.

[@flowerlandofjohn]

Brilliant track with amazing guitar by his excellency! I just had to do a short drum-cover of this today where I follow his playing. Enjoy! 🤩 kzbin.infoAC7roCvFTIc?feature=share

[@geoffreygibson5992]

My own favourite is "The torture never stops"

[@vinantgam]

Mike Douglas was great... way underrated... tremendous empathetic interviewer...

[@dmartinezguitarart]

Mike is a great interviewer. Asks some really good, in depth questions. He really wants to know. A good, insightful and informative spirit that is lacking in media today.

[@Billfish57]

Frank Zappa is the most misunderstood music star that I know of. Manny don't care much for his recordings because he totally did his own thing, so he never did what was expected of him and lot's of people didn't get it, I was one of those people. It wasn't until I saw Frank live in '74 that I really got what Frank was doing. Fantastic live shows, that's what. His recording were nothing like what he did on stage. His bands were always made up of the finest players around and when they played live, it was truly fantastic. Frank was smarter than most people but he could still play nice without the need to prove himself all the time. He knew he was great, and great in a lot of ways. His kids turned out great, a lot better than most stars kids and that tells you a lot about the man. The music world lost a lot when Frank died so young, and so did the non-music world.

[@muskratwiser4700]

Syd Barrett is another person like that, created pink Floyd and yet so many have no clue his impact, it's a shame to lose such savants

[@thomasanthony9636]

Who the hell is Manny? And who cares what he thinks

[@johnfitzpatrick5404]

@@thomasanthony9636Yeah... Screw you Manny!

[@cristiano2pf3lz]

@@thomasanthony9636 maybe Manny Charlton? HAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAYAYA

[@BeforeAndAfterScience]

@@johnfitzpatrick5404 Ohhh, that Manny really is a jackass.

[@jimcobb3275]

He makes me cry listening to him play. I miss Frank Zappa.

[@ricossuave9112]

My guitar instructor, (Salvatore Salvaggio) turned us on to him in seventh grade😎

[@smwokk]

Me too. I miss the era. We've lost something of the American Soul.

[@jimcobb3275]

@@smwokk I know ever era has its greatness but I am so glad I grew up in the 60s & 70s, especially all the magnificent music.

[@tedgreen3724]

Me too, mate. Me too.

[@headleygrange6205]

Im actually crying over him right now. What a fucking loss

[@Bromidrosis]

I come back to this video every once in awhile, and man it gets better and better every time I listen to it. You’re sorely missed Frank.❤

[@dietpepsivanilla3095]

I didn't like his music much as a teen, but I appreciated him. Now as a 60-year-old I fully appreciate his music and his take on life. Zappa was a genius and by all accounts a very nice, down-to-Earth man. An older friend of mine, who's now passed, knew him well and really said Frank Zappa was one of the wonderful geniuses and great people of ours or any time. And I still adore Moon.

[@mortyok3]

You can see his Pignose amp at 3:34 and 7:38. When I did work for the Zappa family (the greatest honor of my life), Dweezil and I found that amp in the back of the studio. I got it working, contacted the Pignose Company about it, and they subsequently did an interview with Dweezil. The only modifications to it were XLR (microphone) connectors to run a line out to a mixing console.

[@Knight14649]

mortyok3 -interesting craft about the Pignose Company.. Terry Kath, the original lead guitar player in CTA > Chicago. Was an original investor and owner of the company. And he used the pignose live on stage miked up.

[@cosmicman621]

@@Knight14649 ...is that for real. ...wow..

[@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823]

It really doesn't sound good, though. It's about the worst I've ever heard, actually. I like the very clean sounds of Neal Schon, SRV and so on. I mean, I'll give you Black Sabbath Sweet Leaf, because it's supposed to sound crunchy in a universal way...

[@cakenbolls442]

@@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823 roll down your volume. It's basically a fuzz face type fuzz with a built in speaker.

[@chipsawdust5816]

That's a fantastic story, thanks!

[@repairdepartment5918]

Damn it damn it damn it I miss Frank

[@thisislogout]

Mike Douglas is straight up, no BS. Loved his shows back in the day.

[@ChucksterOLove]

I feel uncomfortable watching this. Mike is intelligent, well spoken, thoughtful, open minded, and totally empathetic. I'm so not used to intelligent TV personalities that treat people like people.... 🙄

[@Trollificusv2]

Or guests who are unconcerned about "branding" or the opportunity to maybe go viral.

[@Mertztillithurts]

Breath o' fresh air like that is needed today.

[@jeffdeponte]

Agreed. I love Zappa, but this is not the first tv interview I've seen where he falls completely flat. He wants to think that he's about to be setup, but Douglas really wants to hear what Zappa has to say. Zappa seemed looser after he played, but it was too late. I can imagine potential fans thinking "what a dick!"

[@bobthebear1246]

Our whole society has regressed and devolved since the 1970s.

[@drj602]

Mike Douglas was great!

[@viol8ion]

I like how the camera spnet a lot of time in his finger work.

[@nj1639]

Carl Johnson , phenomenal sound without the visual hand antics used by so many. It was about the music.

[@shawnmcvey7789]

Pay attention to how he gets around the fretboard. It's all melodic thought without a care about technique. Very few people can be that expressive in progressive music without some intense muscle memory workouts to keep up.

[@Dug6666666]

Check out those Hammer on Pull offs 10 yrs before Van Halen.

[@michaelgarcia2050]

Yep. Lots of camera work in those days focused on either the wrong hand or the guitarist's face..

[@buckodonnghaile4309]

@@michaelgarcia2050 did it ever. I'm certainly glad that there's any old footage but its funny that in so much of it they pan to the bass player as the guitarist starts soloing.

[@penzman]

Frank was proud of this moment, playing with Douglas's band, he mentioned it the next day in concert.

[@bobbybrooks4826]

Because he's a fraud

[@penzman]

@@bobbybrooks4826 Zappa? A fraud?

[@solar.566]

@Bobby Brooks Care to elaborate?

[@robertcarli5803]

He must've had sheet music for Douglas' band

[@robertcarli5803]

He must've had sheet music for Douglas' band

[@mark11967AD]

Mike Douglas wasn’t the funniest or most exciting host, but his sincerity and thoughtfulness and down to earth style fit in very well in the 1970s. Very soothing medicine against the worlds ills. Speaking of soothing Frank’s voice was extremely relaxing. Definitely one of the unique and brave people of the latter 20th century. Shame cancer hit him at a relatively young age. RIP to both men.

[@MrTurboparker]

So glad I got to see Frank live 4 times back in the day - once with Captain Beefheart.

[@thomasrudder9639]

That is the most respectful, just the nicest I’ve seen Frank be to any host

[@jamesbrady8535]

Probably because he knew Douglas was at the very least a music fan.

[@thomasrudder9639]

Tru dat

[@buckodonnghaile4309]

@@jamesbrady8535 music fan and pretty accomplished singer in his own right.

[@jamesmelton7637]

I think he saw how hard Douglas was trying.

[@thomasrudder9639]

@Nature and Physics man, I sure wish Frank were still with us.

[@JustMe-vk4fn]

I've watched a lot of people interview Mr. Zappa. Most of them ask about how he named his kids. Mike Douglas seemed to hit a chord with Zappa and Douglas' questions were wonderful.

[@geoffpoole483]

There was so much more to him than the weird stuff. Much to many people's surprise he was actually pretty conservative. Must have been quite brave for what looked like a pretty mainstream show to have invite someone like Zappa to appear, and to play one of his compositions live.

[@lawrenceangeli7705]

People do not realize unless they saw him in person. One of the greatest damn guitar players of all time.

[@geoffreybreasley9845]

damm boy damm

[@letsgobrandon5800]

There's so many that are better. Just ask Jimmy Hendrix who said, ask Terry Kath!!

[@rjcxyz]

@@letsgobrandon5800 yeah there so many better!!!! dude you smart not like looser zappa

[@gabrielaguilar1391]

@@letsgobrandon5800 i love Chicago, but it was Terry Kath that said that, so you kinda have to take it with a grain of salt.

[@drakejdf]

Zappa sucks.

[@thomasgroov3r]

One of the few musical magicians who can play in a way that resonates in my soul. I can't describe it... Zappa can bring me to tears in ways I still don't understand. I don't know how his music breaks my heart and elevates me simultaneously.

[@AudiophileTubes]

Zappa had a lot of soul in his genuine playing! Very organic and heartfelt musician without a doubt. A legend, really!

[@BasVossen]

Bruce Bickford, whose animation appears at the last part of this interview, is a legend in his own kind imho. And yes, happy to have seen Frank & band live in Rotterdam. Talked with Ray White that day, before the gig.

[@brenttaylordotus]

AudiophileTubes Thanks for tipping us off ;-)

[@AudiophileTubes]

Well, I can't help myself at times. The passion for whatever I really like is often uncontained, LOL.

[@beachcomber4141]

But his compositions visited another realm entirely. Maybe one day humanity as a whole will catch up with his art and he will be considered one of the great composers.

[@georgeferguson2417]

When I was in radio in 1978 I interviewed Zappa after a concert. Amazing man. One of the other interviewers asked some silly question, and Zappa jumped all over him, saying: "Did you see all those people running around all over the stage? I have to pay their salaries. Did you see all the equipment, and the tractor trailers out back? I have to pay the notes on all those. I'm a business man first." In the Mike Douglas interview he was talking about how he didn't like drugs...during my interview he explained he wanted the musicians to be totally sober when they went on stage, that they couldn't play their best when high...had fired people in the middle of a tour for going out on stage high or drunk. Zappa proves you can't judge a book by the cover.

[@Mark-tz6ie]

I play better high. I've received good reviews, some rave reviews. Never a complaint. Music isn't Puritanism. Warhol claimed Zappa was an "egomaniac". That idea would support Zappa being a control freak. Fine, controlling the product's outcome, but legislating personal behavior is tacky, petty, childish, and self-glorifying. Warhol saw it.

[@jonncockrell3606]

It was Zappa's livelyhood and his band.

[@JustJeph33]

My favorite Zappa memory was pre-show. Working catering, taking a break before the huuge dinner. Watching sound check, just Frank and the first wireless we'd ever heard. He kept walking slowly down the aisle, watching us nodding our heads - Loud and clear! Shivers, man 😎

[@ronaldpetrin5823]

Some of the most beautiful creative melodies ever created were by this genius composer, hands done. No other comes close to this day.

[@Afurthyclays]

Now I see why he’s so well respected among other elite musicians. Frank may have been weird, but his head was screwed on straight, & he stayed true to himself, as well as others. I wish more human beings were like that!

[@Seeklip6T]

He was only sold out to himself and his beloved musicians. He caved to no one. He just didn't care what others thought.

[@marlon-jl4ge]

Zappa was filth

[@mr.brenman2132]

​@@marlon-jl4ge Lol is there a reason you're spewing your nonsense all around the comment section? Attention seeking?

[@stevesorrell9835]

What a great host! So respectful and genuinely interested in what Frank was about. Thank you for posting this. I truly enjoyed it.

[@gordonhutchison9647]

Zap was one of the greatest free stylers on guitar and jammed randomly so easily.

[@darrellrobinson9354]

Frank Zappa was a musical genius. ‘’Titties and Beer” is on level with Bach‘s Brandenburg Concertos and “Don’t Eat the Yellow Snow” shows a level of genius comparable to Mahler’s Symphony No. 5. Prove me wrong.

[@shaft9000]

And that 'The Adventures of Greggary Peckarry' prefigures and influences the T-Bone Stankus masterpiece 'Existential Blues' [it's a huge link between Zappa and Mr Bungle who also 'cover' it mashed-up with _PencilNeckGeek_ live, must see] ....just knowing all of this makes me happy to be alive. In case it is my privilege to be the first to introduce anyone to this - note that the 'Another' version is the best one on YT, imho: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oX6QeKqQnJZsfLM

[@bobgordon236]

I also love "Where are my Car Keys" and the classic " Poopy the Parakeet".

[@lapointe64]

Admittedly, Bach was constrained by his role as church organist.

[@TheSteveRobinson]

Truer words were never spoken.

[@cstepaniuk8611]

Sleep Dirt and Shut Up and Play yer Guitar. Masterworks.

[@andrewcummerson1529]

That'll do me for a lifetime. What a solo. Thanks Frank.

[@steveaitch729]

am 66 and still listen to frank daily. you are missed

[@colinhalliley111]

Me too , on old Route 66 , and Frank is missed.

[@sharmitoboylos7585]

Mike Douglas was so welcoming to so many of these rock/avant garde folks, that yes he Douglas was an amazing host and interviewer and deserves a lot of credit. Bravo, Mike.

[@StillBillyD92]

Black Napkins -- Easily one of Frank's most colorful compositions. He's said in different interviews (And in different ways...) whenever he's playing these songs live that the periods of times he solos in are like creating an air sculpture to him. Almost all of his live solos are different than the album produced ones. He said during his solos from the time they begin, until the time they end that he has that amount of time to "create an air sculpture". He went on to describe what an air sculpture was, and that his solos are different live because he wanted to give the audience a unique experience seeing him live. He demonstrates that here where his solo portion of Black Napkins is different than the album produced one. I was born 1992, so I missed out on Frank being alive, but as a musician of 22 years I appreciate his work ethic so much musically. He was a genius, compositionally he was a mad man. It's mind blowing to realize that he didn't have anything but his will and determination to learn everything he knew about sheet music, and compositions. Looking at his last pieces of work, it was easy to see he was shifting to composing full scale orchestrated pieces. I'm glad he was able to get some of that onto paper, or composed under his supervision. I like watching his interviews because of the way his mind works, and the kind of responses he was able to get out of people while talking to them. I feel like a lot of people that interviewed him never really expected Frank to be as sharp and witty as he was when they would talk to him. He also played a big part in the court proceedings regarding the legalities of music with mature content, and the way those legalities were decided. Those proceedings is how the Parental Advisory label came into existence, and Frank's influence in those proceedings are largely part of the reason why music with mature content that is released can be publicly available. Those labels are still used today, and to think that Frank Zappa played a big role like that in the music industry also blows my mind. I wish more people could appreciate Zappa the way us Zap Heads do. There won't ever be another one like him, but I'm glad there was Zappa at all.

[@christophersmith1426]

Thanks for this. Born in 1987 and you put into words what I have tried saying for years. I thought I knew a lot about Frank, thanks again

[@a.nobodys.nobody]

You get an A+

[@elaztec.aztecca]

Thank you for elaborating on his take of ‘air sculptures’. Music really is finding creative ways to push molecules around. And if you happen to raise the vibration then that’s a true God-giving gift and if you’re good at it you should definitely share those gifts with as many people as possible.

[@jeroen9637]

After 10 minutes: wait, Kenny Rogers is there too? It's nice to see people not interrupt each other every 5 seconds.

[@MrKjohnson123]

back when respect really mattered,not this 'hey it's about me' attitude that I see entirely too much of nowadays

[@RebekahCurielAlessi]

Yes!! Good listening...

[@baldeagle13x]

And no effing and blinding! amazing.

[@daveberswick5372]

When Frank hit the first note l dropped a tear. I miss Frank.

[@michaelledford4751]

The man carries his SG on stage ,then plugs directly into an awesome Pignose amp where he played with an orchestra who were obviously Zappa fans ,his performance was excellent without so much as a 15 minute sound check ,this here really goes to prove how under rated a guitarist Frank.was.

[@InService77]

I've listened to alot of Frank and have heard the stories of how he pushed his musicians to their technical limits. The Mike Douglas Band is amazing on this. I'm assuming they had little to no rehearsal and read sheet music for this performance, but I'd love to know the story on that. Whatever the case they embellished Frank's vision in a most superior fashion.

[@carlsaganlives5112]

@@InService77 Fer sure, fer sure, definitely brought their A game - no Sears poncho, no sir.

[@dogslobbergardens-hv2wf]

Those weird crappy little Pignose amps are on a LOT of classic rock records. It was sort of a secret weapon at the time. Bands liked to show off the big Marshall stacks on stage, but sometimes that quirky, fizzy Pignose tone was exactly what they wanted in the studio.

[@gagacrazy10]

That’s a beautiful tone.

[@guitarjonn7103]

What other talk show back then would give the time and respect to Frank Zappa like this? Behind Douglas' mellow singing voice was a guy not afraid to take risks on his show. The best part here, for me, is you can see how Mike is trying to educate his apprehensive audience about what Frank was really about.

[@cchill100]

it appears like you could be right on but on the other hand it looks like Mike might be a little miffed at having to play the movie because the network bosses told him to do it

[@randallkennedy2589]

Mike even suffered through Lennon and Ono for a week of on his show.

[@Tyrell_Corp2019]

guitar jonn Dick Cavett was another

[@sdushdiu]

Zappa was not what was great about the US, but his attitude and open inquisitiveness. Tht is not dependent upon one's physical body.

[@stevedudeman]

Props to the Mike Douglas orchestra on this one. Zappa just shows up with sheet music and basically says "follow me."

[@billlewis7116]

Probably didn’t even bring music. Just said “go back and forth between c#m7 and bm7 in a slow 3 until I jump up, then play some other chord.”

[@daveberswick5372]

The bass player was great.

[@jonathanscott5932]

@@billlewis7116 no, he probably brought the sheet music for black napkins; the song in which hes playing on this show.

[@Gretchluver1]

@@billlewis7116 C#m7 and DMaj7

[@franciscleary6544]

They were all true musicians listening to each other and playing off of each other that day!

[@richardtaylor8595]

Best guitar,writer and all out musician that ever lived.RIP Frank. Words can not exprees how wonderful you are.

[@tinaholland5178]

It was cool to see my uncle in his element! I’ve met Zappa and his babies! It was pretty great back in 70’s!

[@ruslannunez4449]

THE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN MIKE AND FRANK AWESOMELY UN EXPECTED. AND RESPECTFUL

[@grant5603]

Ruslan Nunez Yep. Mike being quite candid with him too.

[@johnspooner1403]

Mike was also a musician - piano. Not great at it, but they had that common language.

[@Trollificusv2]

It's amazing that it's amazing though. No reason we shouldn't have this today. I mean, all it takes to communicate is a little sincerity, honesty and empathy. Oh... Never mind.

[@clemsontoby]

Mike Douglas was so cool. He was way ahead of his time

[@zolarczakl3880]

Zappa's guitar technique has been described by Dweezil as the spider and the chicken. The left hand is the spider, crawling all over the fretboard and the right hand is pecking away at the strings like a chicken. Very adept description.

[@squeegeeboard]

did he use the chicken to measure it?

[@ramsnover3599]

The tone, with a Pig nose amp...unreal, saw him 1976 in Detroit, concert is on utube...my favorite, "Stinkfoot"

[@BroncoJay]

on a pignose amp... this is so amazing! I can't see anyone going on live tv with such a small amp these days. Frank, you really were the best man... a lot of people miss you.

[@willrich3908]

wow - so much for all tone-freaks!

[@johnlee1297]

@@willrich3908 Most of your tone is literally in your hands. Nuno Bettencourt was quoted as saying he was really disappointed playing through Eddie Van Halen's rig (one of his idols) because he just sounded like himself. I can sound metal playing one of my acoustic guitars.

[@FriesinNF]

Oh no! Yngwie Malmsteen entered a toilette with only 500 Marshal Amps and 1000 Speakers! :-)

[@mukhumor]

How can America be great again without Frank Zappa? Frank Zappa was what was great about America.

[@beatlesrgear]

He is the Founding Father of weird, complex R&R.

[@mcjsrn]

He made Czechoslovakia great again.

[@mandofisher70]

Creative genius. America does produce some. My Idol. Incredible composer. I wish he could come back and record his thoughts on Trump. That would be great.

[@rev4thellofit]

we will be great again when honesty, integrity &civility return.

[@mukhumor]

@rev4thellofit... 9/11 was the crime of the century, 1,000,000 Iraqis had to die being served 'democracy'. You can't get that back. Frank Zappa was 'blown away' because he opposed the 'whoever they are'.

[@brucekronberg8492]

Zappa is great, I listened to him a lot while in the Army in the early 70s, and we loved his originality and musical prowess. Mike Douglas is a credit to what used to be real TV and honest interviewing and this is good to see these days when we see so much dishonesty and crap on the tube.

[@DawnPossession]

Hello to everyone I've been spending This December with zappa I can't get enough

[@LBNLDC1]

I think Mike Douglas is the only variety show host who would have put this guy on. He was gutsy and open minded.

[@timprescott4634]

Cavett would have...

[@t00by00zer]

Letterman had him on, more than once I believe. Also, Carson and Steve Allen.

[@jimiguitar6324]

Johnny Carson had him on too

[@stevenhopkins2887]

Don't forget he had John Lennon and Yoko Ono on his show...Such a great host!

[@Valandor_Celestial_Warlock]

Merv Griffin

[@camberwellcarrot420]

Wow. 17 minutes on one guest. You're lucky if someone gets 5 these days, and don't even think about serious questions.

[@Amowtts]

CamberwellCarrot and they let people answer not interrupt!

[@pierpontmama]

There are so many nonremarkable guests. For some 5 minutes is pushing it, but for a very few others give em' time. Howard does decent interviews.

[@Tyrell_Corp2019]

That’s because people had stronger attention spans thanks to READING. MTV ruined everything.

[@Kevin.Kelly.]

Let’s be serious.. it’s the money and not the reading.

[@Paidtimeoff47]

Nothing but genuine honesty. I wish our world operated that way now! Frank's way of creating music came from such a pure place.

[@markc6557]

I've seen him in February 1977 in Vienna. A concert I will never forget. RIP Frank.

[@TehCthulhu]

I had no idea talk shows used to be this not shitty.

[@6u174r808]

Phil Donahue fucked it all up. He paved the way for the Geraldos and the Jerry Springers.

[@MattyExtrordinairIndeed-rp1mk]

Yea...they used to introduce new ideas. Not just cater to trailer trash.

[@williamsherman1089]

Yeah Gator they actually use to have interesting people on them.

[@MGC1973]

Dude donahue was something deeper & better than the artless jackals who were coming anyway.. but yeah it’s nuts- Zappa has no pressure to sing, Joni Mitchell is called trite pop and no one objects.. if you’re digging this, dick Cavett has tons of amaze on KZbin better more charismatic host, Lennon Lucille ball all types of shit.. Zappa’s half assed video is so batshit. He should be proclaiming from every rooftop that he WAS on drugs. Super-hyper-spastic-vibraphone bullshit crappy vids with symbology only important to Zappa. I love the 70s.

[@PeterSobol]

Frank even played to the next solo

[@nemo-nb3gh]

I loved that guy Mike Douglas . He was a straight mainstream singer , entertainer , host yet he was open to having all sorts of people, musicians, artists and entertainers on his show . John and Yoko Ono were on the show for a whole week . I have the same affection for the late great , late night talk show host Tom Snyder .

[@postatility9703]

What is happening today in late-night entertainment is yet another casualty of the Digital era:An extremely shortened attention span.

[@nemo-nb3gh]

@@postatility9703 yes thats sadly true

[@chrisoakley5830]

​@@postatility9703Also, people short on talent.

[@dogslobbergardens-hv2wf]

@@chrisoakley5830 so much of popular music now is just completely prefabricated. Almost entirely perfectly pretty people lip-syncing and dancing to some formulaic crap a boring old producer wrote for them. So much of it all sounds the same, unlike the old days when you could hear everything from disco to country-rock to heavy metal in a half hour on the same radio station. And all the biggest bands of various genres had their OWN distinctive sound. You know something's wrong when you no longer see ugly people on stage. Not that good-looking people can't be talented, but it does indicate that some priorities have changed. To quote the old Dead Kennedys lyric, "if the Doors or John Lennon were getting started now, the industry wouldn't sign 'em in a million years." And that lyric was written in the 80s... it's far worse now.

[@riobravo1363]

Mike Douglas show was very good and he was a sincere host and great interviewer. He always let his guests answer the questions and did not over talk them. He had great musical guests. My goodness the variety - one week Zappa the next Maynard Ferguson.

[@hinjurock70]

Maynard Ferguson gave me my first drum set in 1983. My mom was friends with his son.

[@Oenloveslife]

So brilliant, one of the most unique composers, singers, lyricists, personalities, guitarists we've seen in modern music.

[@analogkid4957]

I love how the other guests ( Kenny Rogers, Jimmy Walker) all stayed on the show the whole time even after when they were interviewed. It doesn’t happen Today in our digital fast paced world everyone is so busy- it’s rush rush gotta go somewhere.

[@Buckeyelargo]

For those that never saw Frank Zappa live, he very hard to explain. This video nails it! You left us all too soon. Happy Birthday Frank! Frank Vincent Zappa, born 12/21/1940. Would have been 73 today.

[@PhillipLandmeier]

I've had the privilege of watching him rehearse his band, close up, in person, several times. Wow. I'm a musician and engineer, and I can assure you it was an EYE-OPENER. It's amazing how much you can learn by watching a master at his craft. (This was around 1975.) I wasn't much of a fan of Zappa until this happened. Then I had to go out and buy all his albums and study them. As a musician, I recommend studying his work closely, even if you don't like what he does. It's time well invested.

[@mrtundra1994]

I could listen to Frank play guitar all day.

[@tehf00n]

then you should. and tell your kids. dont let the music pass them by cuz the radio won't fucking play it.

[@Joepepelombardo]

Me to arf!!

[@lumpygravy1073]

I often do just that!

[@jogmas12]

Robert Hagen yes but his music applies all different types of instruments not just guitar. Because he all over Jimi Hendrix for just relying on the guitar.

[@polishprincess8469]

@@tehf00n my two boys love Zappa! I turned them on to him too! One of my prouder moments as a parent realizing my children have excellent taste in music!

[@cliffordnewell2445]

This was great. Especially Zappa's guitar work.

[@jamesfarrington9030]

And, little do people know, MD was ana amazing singer. You can find him singing TSSB before a baseball, probably about this time. What a throat.

[@SteffanoDucati]

That man was a freakin GENIUS ! Side note .. check out the civility and decency in the way folks communicated back in the day as compared to the low lifes of today ....

[@beatlesrgear]

Very good point, Steffano. Ever watch The View? God, how awful and barbaric...........

[@AOXOMOXO]

"check out the civility and decency in the way folks communicated back in the day as compared to the low lifes of today ...." Yep...I'm sure Howard Stern would just want to know how much sex and drugs he had as a rock n roll star, and would bring it up repeatedly...…………….

[@BlackSwan912]

Umm... to wit, your own remark?

[@JustAnotherBlader]

Plenty of twats interviewed back then too, like as much as I love the Sex Pistols every one of their interviews are cringe worthy.

[@TheBuckocamp]

Dweezil studiously and respectfully has continued his legacy

[@NondescriptMammal]

Gotta give Mike Douglas credit for showing the avant-garde animation accompanying the weird but beautiful song Inca Roads in his mainstream venue

[@Trollificusv2]

Proving a version of Zappa's famous contention that music was better off in the hands of greedy-but-clueless businessmen than try-hard hipsters.

[@JoeContiMusic]

I miss him so much. Worked for him in 1984 on the crew and I played in a band with Ike Willis before that. A true awesome genius that I keep re-discovering

[@waynejohnting2954]

Wow!! That's awesome!! Frank truly was a genius, sadly the world couldn't handle someone that was smart and told the truth. Frank is the reason I play guitar

[@markgreene6349]

Any Frank Zappa interview is just a treasure...

[@writereducator]

I used to watch Mike Douglas every day after school. He had everybody on his show eventually.

[@jerrymuzak4534]

Indeed. EVERY SINGLE DAY, after school. Think I enjoyed his show more than most cartoons. In NJ, right after Mike D, was Batman and then The Munsters. Then, it was dinner time, LOL.

[@jamesm.3967]

writereducator me too. That was my Mom. Thanks mom.

[@newharmonymusicfest]

For sure I dig the line-up: Jimmy Walker, Kenny Rogers, Frank Zappa and all hosted by MD. Television production teams/creative host people like MD in the '70s were more free, took more risks, allowed folks from wider, more radical social scopes to interact in ways that bespoke civil discourse in America. Pretty cool, in my view. FZ was kind of a "universal: guy, which is never the "popular" guy. What I dig is that Frank Zappa taught Mike D's TV studio "house band" Black Napkins (only two chords until the coda). They probably had less than 30 minutes to pull it together at rehearsal before the show, then went live. To me it sounded like they understood his music and he dug that they dug. This is what we call solid entertainment. The stop-action clay-mation film that is shown is a testament to just how much ground has been LOST in terms of editorial freedom...lost to evermore restrictive FCC regulations, lost to inside-industry fear-mongering, and lost to we, as a people upon whom so much personal freedom has been bestowed. Creativity is not part and parcel the possession of the privileged. Creativity is and will always be human-kinds' passport to the yet-to-be-discovered lands of our own imaginations. Rock-on Mike Douglas, ya boy ya!

[@Trollificusv2]

NOW, "artistic creation" has been enslaved to the promotion of the "progressive" narrative, except for the dumbest of dumbed-down mass market product. the musical and literary equivalent of Taco Bell.

[@bustinmaballs]

Great comment...it sounded like the house band. I heard the background vocalists In my head going, "ooooo oooo" after Zappa hits that stop note!

[@richieboy6825]

I’m reading Henry David Thoreau right now, he would have made similar conclusions no doubt. Step one is to look away from tv & most of what the internet has to offer.

[@jimmypennell8831]

Wow!!! Never saw Zappa play before! He was truly amazing. Complete individual. Amazing tone. Amazing technique

[@bobthebear1246]

This is when TV was truly for adults and those aspiring to be adults.

[@jonathanlocke6404]

I remember my mom always used to watch "The Mike Douglas Show"...I think it would come on in the afternoons after I got home from school. One of the things I came to respect about MIke: my mom wouldn't have given someone like Frank Zappa the time of day...Until she saw something like this. "If Mike Douglas has him on his show, he can't be all bad!" She'd come away thinking something like: "What a nice young man! Very smart!" She'd still wish he would get a haircut, but even she'd admit that he was almost as good a guitar player as Roy Clark...

[@disprogreavette8616]

That is the best comment I've read in a while. Cheers

[@diamondgirl_95]

so true !!!

[@grappleduck57]

@A Day in the Life of Roy was a stud on the guitar...no doubt...saw him every Saturday evening...but Roy would've gladly jammed with Frank any day, any hour or any minute.

[@grappleduck57]

@A Day in the Life of Frank was an acquired taste...

[@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823]

@A Day in the Life of Most of his stuff is like Frank. But there must be a reason every world-class player wanted to play with him. Tone does suck, tho. Sounds like a blown cone to me.

[@TS-qq7vr]

10:13 Frank Zappa, Jimmie Walker and Kenny Rogers talking about their love of classical music.

[@Trollificusv2]

Well, truth to tell...from Webern to Segovia to Bach and shoving them into the label "classical" is kind of like taking Zappa, Joni Mitchell and Kenny Rogers and labelling them "pop music". Not entirely wrong, but not a real useful classification.

[@senglish41]

Makes me want to cry, what are conversations for anymore in this world.

[@toddwalker4301]

Such a brilliant master of many forms of music. I still remember playing jazz arrangements of his in our college jazz ensemble.

[@billhudson1923]

Truly one of the greatest composer s & guitar player of our time!! Thanks for putting this out!

[@lambisi]

Love Frank, there is no filter in his brain, he says what's on his mind. The album Zoot Allures is one of my favorite's

[@hooksncrosses3419]

Zoot allures and Apostrophe are the first Zappa albums I got when I was 17. Pure gold.

[@philipcolbert2069]

The album title is just a corruption of a French expression "Zut Alors!"

[@unperson5713]

Mike Douglas, Frank Zappa, Jimmy JJ Walker and Kenny Rogers. What a show, what a panel, really excellent.

[@brandonmec32]

I really did not know my life was missing something....... thanks for this!!!!!